Meg Tirrell 推 What vaccine makers are saying about Omicron (cont): -Moderna announces 3-pronged strategy: -evaluating full booster dose of original vaccine -studying two multi-valent boosters -advancing Omicron-specific booster
从各疫苗不同期的临床数据看，对以前几个变种免疫效果比较好的只有目前美国尚未批准的Novavax疫苗，(印尼和菲律宾已经批准)，无论安全性和有效性都好过市面上的现有疫苗 "Recent data from our Phase 2 clinical trial showed that wild-type neutralizing antibodies increased more than 4-fold versus Primary vaccination series and that cross-reactive functional antibodies to the Alpha (B.1.1.7), Beta (B.1.351), and Delta variant strains increased six- to ten-fold with a booster dose of NVX-CoV2373. These data lead us to believe that our vaccine is likely to provide protection against new and emerging variants," the company said in a statement. 关于他家数据的评论 Slide-4 showed that the peak NAbs titer after the two-shot primary series was 1581. That was highest among known vaccines. But, then the boost at 6 months increased that more than four times to 6039. Those high titer values mean not only durability but also broad protection against variants. The latter is because a high titer mean that antibodies were generated against a broad number of relevant epitopes on the spike protein. In turn, that protects against mutations. That is, even if a new variant mutated, it may still have a sufficient number of non-mutated epitopes that are handled by these antibodies. However, slide-6 was most exciting about the vaccine. The data after the booster shot showed that protection against three distinct variants, Alpha, Beta and Delta, was not only nearly as high as for the wild-type virus but also roughly equivalent in strength. That is really impressive, especially for Beta which was known to be hard to handle. Altogether, what that means is that the immune system protection by Cov2373 after a three-shot series would be sufficiently mature to protect against a variety of dangerous mutations. That may be good enough to bypass the 30 or so mutations in the Nu variant too. 这是Novavax 8月份给WHO做presentation的slides: https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/blue-print/novavax_who-booster-update-13-aug-2021.pdf?sfvrsn=ef7c1d34_9
从各疫苗不同期的临床数据看，对以前几个变种免疫效果比较好的只有目前美国尚未批准的Novavax疫苗，(印尼和菲律宾已经批准)，无论安全性和有效性都好过市面上的现有疫苗 "Recent data from our Phase 2 clinical trial showed that wild-type neutralizing antibodies increased more than 4-fold versus Primary vaccination series and that cross-reactive functional antibodies to the Alpha (B.1.1.7), Beta (B.1.351), and Delta variant strains increased six- to ten-fold with a booster dose of NVX-CoV2373. These data lead us to believe that our vaccine is likely to provide protection against new and emerging variants," the company said in a statement. 关于他家数据的评论 Slide-4 showed that the peak NAbs titer after the two-shot primary series was 1581. That was highest among known vaccines. But, then the boost at 6 months increased that more than four times to 6039. Those high titer values mean not only durability but also broad protection against variants. The latter is because a high titer mean that antibodies were generated against a broad number of relevant epitopes on the spike protein. In turn, that protects against mutations. That is, even if a new variant mutated, it may still have a sufficient number of non-mutated epitopes that are handled by these antibodies. However, slide-6 was most exciting about the vaccine. The data after the booster shot showed that protection against three distinct variants, Alpha, Beta and Delta, was not only nearly as high as for the wild-type virus but also roughly equivalent in strength. That is really impressive, especially for Beta which was known to be hard to handle. Altogether, what that means is that the immune system protection by Cov2373 after a three-shot series would be sufficiently mature to protect against a variety of dangerous mutations. That may be good enough to bypass the 30 or so mutations in the Nu variant too. 这是Novavax 8月份给WHO做presentation的slides: https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/blue-print/novavax_who-booster-update-13-aug-2021.pdf?sfvrsn=ef7c1d34_9
Meg Tirrell 推 What vaccine makers are saying about Omicron (cont): -Moderna announces 3-pronged strategy: -evaluating full booster dose of original vaccine -studying two multi-valent boosters -advancing Omicron-specific booster
这个slide是他们做booster的实验数据。 下面是他家2期3期的结果。N家的测试包括美国英国墨西哥以及南非，取样广泛包括当时刚出现的变种，不记得P家和M家有对当时新变种的测试。最主要的是Novavax疫苗是protein based subunit vaccine，相对于mRNA疫苗要安全很多。While other vaccines trick the body''s cells into creating parts of the virus that can trigger the immune system, the Novavax vaccine takes a different approach. It contains the spike protein of the coronavirus itself, but formulated as a nanoparticle, which cannot cause disease. NVX-CoV2373 is being evaluated in two pivotal Phase 3 trials: a trial in the U.K. that demonstrated efficacy of 96.4% against the original virus strain, 86.3% against the B.1.1.7 (Alpha) variant and 89.7% overall; and the PREVENT-19 trial in the U.S. and Mexico that demonstrated 100% protection against moderate and severe disease and 90.4% efficacy overall. It is also being tested in two ongoing Phase 2 studies that began in August 2020: A Phase 2b trial in South Africa that demonstrated 55% efficacy overall in HIV-negative participants and 48.6% efficacy against a newly emerging escape variant first described in South Africa, and a Phase 1/2 continuation in the U.S. and Australia.
针对这个新变种的booster最快也要2-3个月后才能批准吧？ Third, Moderna will rapidly advance an Omicron-specific booster candidate (mRNA-1273.529). This candidate is part of the Company’s strategy to advance variant-specific candidates for a subset of variants of significant concern.During 2021 this has already included Beta- and Delta-specific boosters. The Company has repeatedly demonstrated the ability to advance new candidates to clinical testing in 60-90 days. “From the beginning, we have said that as we seek to defeat the pandemic, it is imperative that we are proactive as the virus evolves. The mutations in the Omicron variant are concerning and for several days, we have been moving as fast as possible to execute our strategy to address this variant,” said Stéphane Bancel, Chief Executive Officer of Moderna. “We have three lines of defense that we are advancing in parallel: we have already evaluated a higher dose booster of mRNA-1273 (100 µg), second, we are already studying two multi-valent booster candidates in the clinic that were designed to anticipate mutations such as those that have emerged in the Omicron variant and data is expected in the coming weeks, and third, we are rapidly advancing a Omicron-specific booster candidate (mRNA-1273.529).”
The new ‘Omicron’ variant of COVID-19 was first detected in four people who were fully vaccinated, according to a public statement by the Botswana government. https://twitter.com/BWGovernment/status/1463874240130785280 vitd120 发表于 2021-11-26 20:07
回复 567楼ytwk1的帖子 我觉得不止吧，最最理想的情况60-90天上临床，然后找已经打过前两针的人来测试，收集到数据又要一两个月，这还只是体外数据。而且如果情况不是特别紧急的话，FDA很可能需要一些现实世界的实战数据，而不只是biomarker，那就要拖得更久了 我猜moderna手里的两个现货(武汉毒株和beta混合的booster，beta和delta混合的booster）至少会有一个对omicron的体外数据还看得过去，最可能的是beta和delta混合的这个。如果真的现有第三针疫苗对重症的保护能力都下降的很厉害的话(which is possible for > 65 years old)，可以拿来先给高危人群用一下
The new ‘Omicron’ variant of COVID-19 was first detected in four people who were fully vaccinated, according to a public statement by the Botswana government. https://twitter.com/BWGovernment/status/1463874240130785280 vitd120 发表于 2021-11-26 20:07
The new ‘Omicron’ variant of COVID-19 was first detected in four people who were fully vaccinated, according to a public statement by the Botswana government. https://twitter.com/BWGovernment/status/1463874240130785280 vitd120 发表于 2021-11-26 20:07
针对这个新变种的booster最快也要2-3个月后才能批准吧？ Third, Moderna will rapidly advance an Omicron-specific booster candidate (mRNA-1273.529). This candidate is part of the Company’s strategy to advance variant-specific candidates for a subset of variants of significant concern.During 2021 this has already included Beta- and Delta-specific boosters. The Company has repeatedly demonstrated the ability to advance new candidates to clinical testing in 60-90 days. “From the beginning, we have said that as we seek to defeat the pandemic, it is imperative that we are proactive as the virus evolves. The mutations in the Omicron variant are concerning and for several days, we have been moving as fast as possible to execute our strategy to address this variant,” said Stéphane Bancel, Chief Executive Officer of Moderna. “We have three lines of defense that we are advancing in parallel: we have already evaluated a higher dose booster of mRNA-1273 (100 µg), second, we are already studying two multi-valent booster candidates in the clinic that were designed to anticipate mutations such as those that have emerged in the Omicron variant and data is expected in the coming weeks, and third, we are rapidly advancing a Omicron-specific booster candidate (mRNA-1273.529).” ytwk1 发表于 2021-11-26 19:57
https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global
下面是你暗示Delta来自美国实验室的帖子，你抵赖有什么用？
欧美国家是要抽查、香港因为病例少可能全查病人的病毒序列的，你以为除了非洲别国都不测序列的吗？
看你发帖的历史你自己才是那个“为了要自己想要的结果完全可以乱给论据的“人。
国产疫苗的效果差是主流媒体根据各国的使用情况而报道的，这里的人只是转述这些报道而已。
中国是靠一有病例就强行限制民众出门来阻止新冠流行的，没有疫苗或疫苗无效只要不大规模流行就不会有很强的变种，这么基本的常识你都不知道？
以后 像 流感疫苗 一样，每年 一针吧。
主要是不止一针。
前面很客观，太多未知，哪怕实验室血清实验显示免疫逃逸。拉到后面记者说此人说过delta就算最后危险变种了，此人结论booster多少还是有保护性的，赶紧的。
他是P家的董事会成员，要大家打booster也是尽其责任。。
如果每年在10-11月份打，至少管到4-5月份，我觉得夏天危险性低一些，不是高危职业的一年一针应该可以，还有特效药，单抗，时间久一点，干预手段多一些应该可以做到一年一针。
biden这个useless老家伙大概率2024被赶下台，国民选他很大原因是希望疫情能被控制，结果他做了啥？完全甩手给疫苗党，即使事实已经证明不work还在强推，其他重要举措比如口罩、远程工作、远程上学之类全部放弃，美国人每天都成千的死去，他整天不知道在干啥，美国人真是惨，以前想破头都不能想象一个世界最强国今天沦落到连国民生命健康都没有保障了
周一开始
美国口罩啊，远程工作远程上学也不是总统能管的了的。就连强制疫苗也要看具体的学校和公司自己的政策
谢谢建议。刚才忘了回复这个建议了！
多谢楼主每次都能及时科普，获益匪浅。这次新冠大流行，各种牛鬼蛇神带节奏秀下限的货都冒出头来表演，清者自清，不必太介怀。
这是有文章的 你可以去杂志社讨个公道…
那篇文章写的也很通俗易懂
To me, how this deep branch went undetected for this long is scary
口罩？远程？美国人肯吗？政府强制得了吗？换谁当总统都干不成。
What vaccine makers are saying about Omicron (cont):
-Moderna announces 3-pronged strategy:
-evaluating full booster dose of original vaccine -studying two multi-valent boosters -advancing Omicron-specific booster
所以第四针在路上了。
是的，转发的目的就是想说： 第一他被打脸（说 Delta是最后的危险变种，说明年一月美国疫情结束）； 第二他是辉瑞董事会的，所以打booster是从公司利益出发，而非独立理性分析。
所以他这个采访，点踩的人远多于点赞的人。
感谢分享，庄医生写的也很中肯。
我感觉南非的应该传不太出来，那两个国家和外界接触的本就不多。
哈哈 我从没支持过墙国疫苗 就是觉得lz这种没有论据直接就达到结论的不是科学
层主貌似比lz更可怕 请问“言必车轱辘副作用” 这帖子里我有说过副作用吗？
我也没有变种必归结于疫苗 你那么有信心不是疫苗 你能说说为啥变异这么集中于spike protein的antigenic region吗？
我都骂过谁呀？
这个国家现在非常divided，有的州自己签发令不可以强制疫苗口罩
理智？ 我没看到理智，只看到大多数人的恐慌情绪。 人在恐慌支配下毫无理性可言。
Anderson同学吗？
和lz删帖一样的把tweets都删光了
你的截屏的发言 我主要是觉得Anderson有什么事情没有讲清楚就突然封口了
omicron到底哪儿来的不清楚 你非要说南非也是蛮奇特的
我只能说 按变异点看确实antigenic driven更likely
不是的，美国从上到下媒体铺天盖地宣传，不是连打有毒没用的针都推销的出去，同样的力度推我就不信推不了口罩，远程这种既无害又已经证明有效的举措，关键是要有leadership，要有对国民生命的责任心，要把掣肘的有阴谋私利的家伙像fauci，CDC director之类全部fire掉，按他们的举措一年多了美国还是一片悲剧看不到任何希望，留着他们过年吗？将军打了败仗就要撤职，biden现在不撤他们，将来美国公民就要撤biden的职
禁飞希望有用吧
这个事吧 挺覆水难收的 而且药厂总是效益当先 所以只能这样了
药厂利益当先是它们的事，但国民要是自愿牺牲自己被人宰，那就是国民的愚蠢了
最奇怪的是，这些人经常会拿着专业词汇一套一套的，很唬人，其实内在逻辑错漏百出。不知道什么人这么执著? 风格上比较有"光年是时间单位" 的风采😂😂
天啊！对门也能被感染，真的是没完没了了啊啊啊啊啊
唉，现在完全不知道什么时候能恢复原来的生活了
因为Pfizer和Moderna的疫苗用的就是spike protein的序列，产生抗体识别这个蛋白来起作用的。这么多突变，不知道抗体还能不能认出病毒来。
而且传染性很强，似乎不太妙，怪不得股市一片大乱
又要来顾左右而言他了，别人后来删帖和你当初说Delta源自美国实验室有什么联系？
因为你觉得“Anderson有什么事情没有讲清楚”所以你就能得出结论Delta来自美国实验室？
我觉得这个新变种来自非洲是根据现在看到的媒体信息来的，如果媒体将来有新的信息说来自别的地方只要有事实根据我完全可以接受。不像你这种人根本就不需要事实证据一拍脑袋就杜撰出Delta源自美国实验室，现在又编造omicron来自疫苗。
瞧你小样
你是在蓝州吧？欢迎来红州参观，看看大家有多反口罩反远程教学。你有没有孩子，知不知道远程教学对孩子教育的负面影响？知不知道那些穷人的孩子远程教学就等于没学上？知不知道娃在家上学家长多难？你可以用铁拳推这些，但是如果没有配套的措施，不搞得民不聊生才怪。美国再牛，这样的配套措施也不是几天几月能赶出来的，真赶出来了，早就不知道又是几代变异株了。
艾滋病人是免疫系统低下的典型代表。各种病原体到了艾滋病人体内就像鹿群没有了灰狼的国家公园，那个撒欢，那个繁殖，爱咋的就咋的。 疫苗推动的病毒变异，还没咋听说，听过天花被疫苗根除，听过灭活疫苗在免疫力低下的人群中复活。
"Recent data from our Phase 2 clinical trial showed that wild-type neutralizing antibodies increased more than 4-fold versus Primary vaccination series and that cross-reactive functional antibodies to the Alpha (B.1.1.7), Beta (B.1.351), and Delta variant strains increased six- to ten-fold with a booster dose of NVX-CoV2373. These data lead us to believe that our vaccine is likely to provide protection against new and emerging variants," the company said in a statement.
关于他家数据的评论
Altogether, what that means is that the immune system protection by Cov2373 after a three-shot series would be sufficiently mature to protect against a variety of dangerous mutations. That may be good enough to bypass the 30 or so mutations in the Nu variant too.
这是Novavax 8月份给WHO做presentation的slides: https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/blue-print/novavax_who-booster-update-13-aug-2021.pdf?sfvrsn=ef7c1d34_9
哈哈哈😂，我上次给你列的一二三，你都看懂了吗？你一下就没声了是怎么回事呢？
我不需要去杂志社讨公道，我觉得那篇文章发那个杂志很好，数据solid，但是意义不大。结果被你们反疫苗教没材料，瞎抓证据，我想那些作者也不是想被你们这么利用的吧。
现实生活中，反疫苗的跟反口罩的真是高度重合。红县里面反口罩的比反疫苗的还多
本人住红州，最近已经发展到商店里一半的人不戴口罩，真是每次去超市都心情不好，最近疫情再反转起来我更是难受。难道又要继续龟缩的日子？
好像不是这个意思吧，你再读读
等半年我们再看。
pg决定脑袋，到哪儿都这样，在更多怀疑甚至证实新变种疫苗逃逸前，最后大力推销一波
你这个是第三针的。两个mrna疫苗的第三针一样能很好地cover这几个变种，而且对WT和对VOC的差距比这个小多了
看你的最后一张图，有多少人打过两针novavax之后血清对alpha, beta, delta完全没有中和能力的。这个疫苗是细胞外抗原，在现在变种肆虐的大环境下更适合做其他疫苗的booster而不是前两针
你贴的这些又不是我说的。。。
lambda我从来没担心过，根本不是delta的对手，这个omicron可是完全不一样。
multi-valent 早该提上日程了
共和党在减少地方反智人口方面确实做出了巨大的贡献
我等他们开始推第五，第六针的时候，再去考虑要不要第三针。半年一针身体真是吃不消。 平时就戴口罩，不去扎堆就是。
我个人的猜测是，在马上能够拿出来推广的疫苗里面，最有可能对这个omicron有效果的应该是moderna的1273.213版本（delta和beta的混合），打给已经接种过前两针mrna疫苗的人。
从长远来看，这个组合将来可能要换成delta和omicron
那刚打了第三针的岂不是尴尬了
刚刚打完Moderna的booster两周左右，应该是前两针剂量一半，咋知道打的第三针是那种版本？
我编造delta来自美帝实验室？还编造omicron来自疫苗？
这个罪名太大了
哪个一二三？麻烦你再列一下 谢谢
这个新变种的疫苗现在是什么status？临床三期过了？
我觉得前两针完全白打了
记得当初有人说打疫苗和吃大饼是一个逻辑 必须一个一个吃下来才行… 我硬是没懂这逻辑
我是觉得打早了。 周围有人前两个月刚打完第二针， 正好过冬，不需要考虑第三针。
问个胸腺的问题，给老人打胸腺免疫针会不会有好处啊，有亲戚非要来美国，这新变种感觉挺让人担忧的
现在第三针就是跟前两针一样的啊，不是为变种新出的疫苗。 只是m的剂量减少了好像。
因为他们就一个疫苗啊。 领袖打哪个，肯定是本国强推哪个。 所以，国内领导们不作秀表演打哪个，我认为挺好。 不会造成某一个疫苗挤兑。
看他们的press release
https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-strategy-address-omicron-b11529-sars-cov-2
100微克的剂量已经打了584人，所以211和213这两个版本对omicron体外中和的数据应该过个一两周就能看到。
三期要看疫情有多紧急了。如果事态非常紧急的话，FDA不一定会硬要对每个变种做一遍phase 3
我把事实拿出来让大家了解一下你在这里说过什么，你承认不承认我不在乎。
如果是这样应该建议大家都要按时去啊，没打疫苗的不是个个更加说窝在家里避免出门更可能不按时体检么？单单说打过疫苗的去，言外之意不是很明确么。就算大家都理解错你意思，是大家都阅读理解有问题而不是你表达有问题是吧？
👍
大陆总共有几个WHO认可的疫苗？ 大陆常委有9个，对自己国产疫苗如果有信心，每个常委打一种完全可行。你的理论经不起推敲。
这个slide是他们做booster的实验数据。
下面是他家2期3期的结果。N家的测试包括美国英国墨西哥以及南非，取样广泛包括当时刚出现的变种，不记得P家和M家有对当时新变种的测试。最主要的是Novavax疫苗是protein based subunit vaccine，相对于mRNA疫苗要安全很多。While other vaccines trick the body''s cells into creating parts of the virus that can trigger the immune system, the Novavax vaccine takes a different approach. It contains the spike protein of the coronavirus itself, but formulated as a nanoparticle, which cannot cause disease.
NVX-CoV2373 is being evaluated in two pivotal Phase 3 trials: a trial in the U.K. that demonstrated efficacy of 96.4% against the original virus strain, 86.3% against the B.1.1.7 (Alpha) variant and 89.7% overall; and the PREVENT-19 trial in the U.S. and Mexico that demonstrated 100% protection against moderate and severe disease and 90.4% efficacy overall. It is also being tested in two ongoing Phase 2 studies that began in August 2020: A Phase 2b trial in South Africa that demonstrated 55% efficacy overall in HIV-negative participants and 48.6% efficacy against a newly emerging escape variant first described in South Africa, and a Phase 1/2 continuation in the U.S. and Australia.
那我打早了，今天刚打了辉瑞的booster.
这个就要看各人自己造化了
这类帖子搞得像卖脑白金一样的 先说一大堆吓死人的情况 但对怎样防止吓死人的情况继续一言不发 只让继续买药/打针
前几页里lz说delta施加了进化压力从而让omicron出现了
仔细想想就会发现露馅了其实 selective pressure通常是环境施加的 delta和omicron是互相竞争的关系
自然的antigenic mutate需要很久才能变出来omicron，你觉得在这之前这个变化就一直默默无闻知道突然变成omicron，你这id和啥睿大妈，那个大青椒啊已经臭大街了，不如换个再来讨论吧
针对这个新变种的booster最快也要2-3个月后才能批准吧？
Third, Moderna will rapidly advance an Omicron-specific booster candidate (mRNA-1273.529). This candidate is part of the Company’s strategy to advance variant-specific candidates for a subset of variants of significant concern. During 2021 this has already included Beta- and Delta-specific boosters. The Company has repeatedly demonstrated the ability to advance new candidates to clinical testing in 60-90 days. “From the beginning, we have said that as we seek to defeat the pandemic, it is imperative that we are proactive as the virus evolves. The mutations in the Omicron variant are concerning and for several days, we have been moving as fast as possible to execute our strategy to address this variant,” said Stéphane Bancel, Chief Executive Officer of Moderna. “We have three lines of defense that we are advancing in parallel: we have already evaluated a higher dose booster of mRNA-1273 (100 µg), second, we are already studying two multi-valent booster candidates in the clinic that were designed to anticipate mutations such as those that have emerged in the Omicron variant and data is expected in the coming weeks, and third, we are rapidly advancing a Omicron-specific booster candidate (mRNA-1273.529).”
多价难道不比单价副作用大？
这是微软视窗操作系统挨着service pack升级的概念，不过如果没有老系统，可以直接买最新版本，哈哈
香港特首作秀过，结果露底了。。。
https://twitter.com/BWGovernment/status/1463874240130785280
请问这三个，哪个最适合免疫变种？
没懂你要说什么 能重新说一下吗
好吧 patch over patch也是可行的 直到…
嗯嗯 这四个也是打过针的
现实生活中是反强制口罩被人认为是反口罩，反强制疫苗被人等同于反疫苗，为啥不互相leave alone呢。。。
我觉得不止吧，最最理想的情况60-90天上临床，然后找已经打过前两针的人来测试，收集到数据又要一两个月，这还只是体外数据。而且如果情况不是特别紧急的话，FDA很可能需要一些现实世界的实战数据，而不只是biomarker，那就要拖得更久了
我猜moderna手里的两个现货(武汉毒株和beta混合的booster，beta和delta混合的booster）至少会有一个对omicron的体外数据还看得过去，最可能的是beta和delta混合的这个。如果真的现有第三针疫苗对重症的保护能力都下降的很厉害的话(which is possible for > 65 years old)，可以拿来先给高危人群用一下
三叶草生物和丽珠生物的疫苗理论上和体外数据都很好，三叶草生物对delta已经有不错的实战数据了，丽珠生物的还没有
这个新变种这么多S蛋白变异，不会是来自打了booster的人，在非洲遇到B.1,1，因为进化压力，变异出来这个超级变种？
不知道啊，没说那四个traveller是哪来的，回头观望一下这个锅到底是谁的
都是外交官，不敢说，怕引起纠纷
那个ID很明显就是暗搓搓地诅咒打了疫苗的人，还装什么装，真的很low
我们local家长群今天有人发了omicron的消息，然后一大群家长大骂没打疫苗的，说变种的出现都怪那些没打疫苗的，都是这些人害得他们打了疫苗都没法正常生活...
这只是Botswana最早发现的4例，又不是所有Omicron中的零号。零号应该在南非。
的确，而且肯定要先给年长和高危人群先打。何况，这个新变种什么时候在美国流行，是不是会流行，现有疫苗对它的作用，还是很大未知数。现在的主要问题还是Delta变种，打booster还是有作用的