【 在 AKQJ (AKQJ) 的大作中提到: 】 PS. To leonana and zhaowendao 你们觉得我说的和你们所说的哪个有道理? 毫无疑问,我说的有道理。你的说法是基于毫无根据的猜测(你在猜测耶稣的“本意”,为什么耶稣的“本义”不是字面的意思?没有根据嘛!)。 很简单:请你说说为什么撒玛利亚人才是那个倒霉蛋的“邻舍”而另外两个人不是?区别在哪里?
【 在 AKQJ (AKQJ) 的大作中提到: 】 道别时,当我说 have a good weekend.你回应说 Have a nice weekend with reason! 不知别人怎样,至少我觉得怪怪的。 為什麼? 你反對 reason 嗎? 好吧,既然你现在说你平常也那么说,我就理解了。 我前面说的话就算是对所有人(当然也含我自己)的共勉吧。 那我們回頭討論什麼是『如己』吧。
IF I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
New International Version The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
New Living Translation The second is equally important: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these."
English Standard Version The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
New American Standard Bible "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
King James Bible And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Holman Christian Standard Bible "The second is: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other command greater than these."
International Standard Version The second is this: 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these."
NET Bible The second is: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English “And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation The second most important commandment is this: 'Love your neighbor as you love yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these."
Jubilee Bible 2000 And the second is like it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these.
King James 2000 Bible And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.
American King James Version And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
American Standard Version The second is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Douay-Rheims Bible And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these.
Darby Bible Translation And a second like it is this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is not another commandment greater than these.
World English Bible The second is like this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
English Revised Version The second is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Webster's Bible Translation And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: there is no other commandment greater than these.
World English Bible The second is like this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
Young's Literal Translation and the second is like it, this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself; -- greater than these there is no other command.'
【 在 leonana (Nana) 的大作中提到: 】 你觉得通么? NEIGHBOR: one living or located near another New International Version The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." New Living Translation The second is equally important: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these." English Standard Version The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is ...................
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耶稣说过诫命中最要紧的,概括说就是爱神、爱人如己。所以弄清爱人如的含义很重要。多花的时间思考是有必要的。
爱人如己在圣经中也被多次提到。谢过leonana为我们做了一些引用。http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/TrustInJesus/958931.html
爱人如己(爱邻如己,Love your neighbor as yourself)关于谁是邻的问题在路加福音 10:25~37中作了解释。
按字面分析,我认为邻居应指那个撒玛利亚人,
路加福音10:36 你想这三个人,那一个是落在强盗手中的邻舍呢?
耶稣限定邻舍就在这三人之中。按字面分析,zhaowendao说的也对,是那个撒玛利亚人。但能否就可得出“你帮我,我才爱你”或“某人的“邻居”就是指关怀/帮助/怜悯这个某人的人们。不帮助不怜悯不理会这个某人的人们就不是这个某人的“邻居””,http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/TrustInJesus/959075.html
这样肤浅的道理呢?显然不是。而且结论恰恰相反。
我们首先要了解当时历史背景。犹太人和撒玛利亚人之间隔阂已久,犹太人自视为亞伯拉罕纯正后裔,瞧不起撒玛利亚混血的异族人。
路加福音 10:29 那人要显明自己有理,就对耶稣说,谁是我的邻舍呢。
这里说明这个律法师心里已有判断,根据下文推理,暗示他认定邻舍应是自己人,犹太人。不是撒玛利亚人,并想据此去执行律法。心想与己不和的撒玛利亚人不会帮助了这个从耶路撒冷来的(很可能是犹太人)。但结果恰恰相反,那个撒玛利亚人动了慈心,怜悯帮助了这个人。
路加福音 10:37 他说,是怜悯他的。耶稣说,你去照样行吧。
耶稣不答谁是邻舍,而循循善诱让律法师自己想,说出自己心中爱的盲点。
“你去照样行吧”含义深刻。言外之意是你看看人家撒玛利亚人,对一位素不相识,甚至是有民族隔阂的人,不记恩怨,把这位有难之人当作邻居一般善待帮助。
(这也就是JasonYang所说“倒在路边的人的"邻"是那个撒玛利亚人,撒玛利亚人的“
邻”也就是倒在路边的那个人”的道理[18])。
你律法师也要不带偏见的爱人如己,善待你身边所有的人。
其实这里耶稣所强调的重点不在谁是邻居,而是你心中有没有对你所有的人爱。
我简单总结:爱人如己,不带偏见,包括善待那些和你有恩怨的人。
PS. To leonana and zhaowendao 你们觉得我说的和你们所说的哪个有道理?
leonana 我认为你最初的理解是对的,可后来你又理解错了。现在你是不是可以再回到正确的思想轨道了吧?
zhaowendao 你的那个帖子是不是可以收回去了?
就是爱邻如己是conditional的,不是任何人都是邻居。
可怜耶稣不知道嘴里被塞了多少别人的话。
律师提问谁是邻居,明显他认为邻居不是平常意义上物理距离上的邻居,是有条件的。不是所有人都是邻居。否则就没有这一问。
耶稣很明确回答了他,符合什么样的条件才是邻居。三个人中一个行善的是邻居。
不知道怎么能把这样一个conditional的邻居扩大到无差别的全人类上。
自哪里,这就需要你了解当时历史背景。
是后人发展的基督教罩在他身上。
他如果醒过来,一定会大吃一惊他传的“道”被发展偏离他本意多远了。
路加福音 10
26 耶稣对他说,律法上写的是什么。你念的是怎样呢。
27 他回答说,你要尽心,尽性,尽力,尽意,爱主你的神。又要爱邻舍如同自己。
28 耶稣说,你回答的是。你这样行,就必得永生。
29 那人要显明自己有理,就对耶稣说,谁是我的邻舍呢。
当时社会犹太人觉得自己纯正,认为爱人如己就是只爱犹太自己人。那个律法师也觉得自己牛,想套耶稣话,看耶稣如何回答谁是邻居。
如果你們只愛那些愛你們的人,難道有什麼可稱讚的嗎?其實連罪人也愛那些愛他們的人。
如果你們只善待那些善待你們的人,難道有什麼可稱讚的嗎?連罪人也這樣做。如果你們借東西,只借給那些有指望能從他們收取的人,那有什麼可稱讚的呢?就是罪人也借給罪人,為要如數收回。不過你們要愛你們的敵人,要善待人;借出去,不指望任何償還。這樣,你們的報償就大了,而且你們將成為至高者的兒女,因為他以仁慈待那些忘恩負義和邪惡的人。
我對這個『如己』沒搞懂, 按照AKQJ 的說法, 就是『不如己』,
那應該是如什麼呢?
发信人: AKQJ (AKQJ), 信区: TrustInJesus
标 题: Re: 再谈爱人如己
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Sep 5 21:09:49 2013, 美东)
呵,玩文字游戏了。我现在还有点时间,就玩玩吧。
have a good weekend.
朋友,放松心态,别为反而反,别因“反基”走极端,否则上面taoseeker说的会成真
,良言相劝。
好吧,我也理解为祝福话吧,谢谢,以此共勉。
好吧,既然你现在说你平常也那么说,我就理解了。
我前面说的话就算是对所有人(当然也含我自己)的共勉吧。
爱邻如己=爱人如己,
在上面的故事里,耶稣的意思是,邻居=怜悯他的,
在上面的故事里,AKQJ的意思是,邻居=怜悯他的+不怜悯他的
所以,如果耶稣说了爱特定的人,他的意思就是说爱所有的人
你这种坚持“基督教是邪教”的荒谬立场的极端反基,关于基督教和耶稣的讨论不过是污蔑而已。
你的极端立场我已经反驳了,请看:http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/TrustInJesus/957651.html
and all knowledge,
and if I have a faith that can move mountains,
but have not love, I am nothing.
你的牧師或其他弟兄姊妹討論過? 你要不要問問 Jason 的看法?
:『如己』是一种比喻,是态度,是行为准则。
: 路加福音10:30~35 耶穌讲的那个故事已告诉我们,『如己』就是要象那个撒玛利亚人
: 那样去对待一位陌生有难之人。
我完全同意應該去救助有難的人。
不過說這就是『如己』, 這未免門檻太低了吧? 這連『如兄弟』都比不上, 不是嗎
?
由此我不得不得出结论,你们几位爱坚持已见,无视别人的解答,更不肯静心去想人家的道理。如此下去,讨论还有啥意义。干脆你发一贴,我发一贴,各说各,别回复算了。
NEIGHBOR: one living or located near another
New International Version
The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no
commandment greater than these."
New Living Translation
The second is equally important: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these."
English Standard Version
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is
no other commandment greater than these.”
New American Standard Bible
"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
King James Bible
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
"The second is: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other command
greater than these."
International Standard Version
The second is this: 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.' No other
commandment is greater than these."
NET Bible
The second is: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other
commandment greater than these."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
There is no other commandment greater than these.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The second most important commandment is this: 'Love your neighbor as you
love yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these."
Jubilee Bible 2000
And the second is like it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There
is no other commandment greater than these.
King James 2000 Bible
And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as
yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.
American King James Version
And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as
yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
American Standard Version
The second is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none
other commandment greater than these.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There is no other commandment greater than these.
Darby Bible Translation
And a second like it is this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There is not another commandment greater than these.
World English Bible
The second is like this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There
is no other commandment greater than these."
English Revised Version
The second is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Webster's Bible Translation
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: there is no other commandment greater than these.
World English Bible
The second is like this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There
is no other commandment greater than these."
Young's Literal Translation
and the second is like it, this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself; -- greater than these there is no other command.'
中文里的“邻”显得太窄了,好像只是左邻右舍紧挨着。或英文neighbor从原文希腊?希伯来?翻译的是否准确,我没研究也不得知。但跟据历史背景,联系上下文,我认为我得出的结论有道理,符合本意。
你联系的是上下文,还是解经啊?
“邻”、“人”都是neighbor翻译来的。指你身边的人,可以是相识不相识的、朋友、仇人。为啥要用neighbor而不用others(or all)呢,易懂好操作呗。比如说要你善待
你同事,意见不同也别记仇,有困难也要帮助。这你每天都做到。但说要你善待南非人,你是不是觉得太虚了
爱邻如己其实就是爱人如己,但是我就是不简单的说句爱世人如己,因为你们会觉得很别扭,(为啥阿?)我就是要说爱邻如己,这就是爱人如己,这个说法易懂好操作,
真的假的?
南非人是特指,邻居也是特指,如果你觉得南非人突兀同样应该也会觉得邻居突兀吧
我有点被你们绕糊涂了。你们的根本问题到底是什么,请再简单说说。
上下文很清楚:撒玛利亚人怜悯/帮助了那个倒霉蛋。另外两个人没有。
因此,显然,按照你家主子的意思,某人的“邻舍”就是怜悯/帮助某人的人们。
不要自欺欺人了。
那么复杂么? 你可以从邻居做起,但邻居
还是不是every one,从哪儿做起他都不是。
另外,邪稣也没叫你对其他人要像对你的
邻居一样好。你再读读那一段经,那三个人,
耶稣叫你同等对待他们了吗?
你再读一下那段经文,耶稣叫你同等
对待那三个人了吗? 你自己要怎么干
是你的事,但那不是耶稣的教导。
要不,你拿这段经文去问问牧师?
看看他们怎么理解的。
“爱人(邻)如己”是律法上已记载的,不是耶穌在当时首先提出的,出自利未记19:
18“不可报仇,也不可埋怨你本国的子民,却要爱人如己。我是耶和华。”
爱人如己的“人”字,曾被译为“邻居”、“朋友”,在NIV中译为neighbor。
按利未记19:34 “和你们同居的外人,你们要看他如本地人一样,并要爱他如己,因
为你们在埃及地也作过寄居的。我是耶和华你们的神。”
以色列人将同居在一起的外地人也看作自己人。但因历史恩怨,使得当时的犹太人只把犹太人当邻,并不包括撒玛利亚人。
耶稣通过那个故事,点明律法师,别以为只有祭司,利末人是邻,你看看人家撒玛利亚人,对一位素不相识,有难之人当作邻居一般善待帮助。“你去照样行吧。”你也应把所有人当邻。
若说撒玛利亚人帮了你,你就把他当邻,那只是针对当时特定人即律法师心中爱的盲点而言,而对我们大家,联系根据历史背景和上下文不难得出爱所有人的结论。
我们还可从反向角度论证。(记得toaseeker前面曾提过)。假如你们几位“反基”说
的对,那就是“你怜悯、帮我,才是我的邻,我才爱你”这样肤浅的结论。请你还看路加福音,往前翻到6章32~33“你们若单爱那爱你们的人,有什么可酬谢的呢。就是罪人也爱那爱他们的人。你们若善待那善待你们的人,有什么可酬谢的呢。就是罪人也是这样行。”这里是说不能只爱那善待你们的人,这个没分歧吧?
你们“反基”看到这,是否会如获至宝,拍案而起,说“哈,我又发现圣经一处前后矛盾!” (就算我贡献给你们的吧(^-^)。)
其实圣经里没有你们所说的那么多矛盾,都是误解而已。
至于为何用邻而不简单说所有世人。我个人认为这不关键。你能做到爱你身边所能接触到的人已经很不错了,在我看就已足够了。广义来讲也算every one了
至于“如己”也是。人有弱点,真能完全做到的不多。但“如己”的教导没错。是原则,是努力方向。你有这份心意,朝这个方向去努力,那就走向永生之路。反之,视人为敌,见死不救,无爱心,则走向错误方向。
好了,我觉得我的道理,对这段经文的领悟,讲的够透彻了。也不想再过多纠缠于反复问答了。如你觉得有道理就思考一下,若道理不通请再指正。
有空我再看看本版其他话题吧。谢谢。
有個小矛盾,你覺得愛所有人沒操作意義, 但是『如己』也沒操作意義啊!
人,对一位素不相识,有难之人当作邻居一般善待帮助。“你去照样行吧。”你也应把帮助你的人当邻。说撒玛利亚人帮了你,你就把他当邻,那是针对当时特定人即律
法师心中爱的盲点而言,对我们大家,联系根据犹太人的历史背景和上下文很难得出
爱所有人的结论。譬如耶稣著名的,外邦人是狗理论
其实吧,真正的矛盾是耶和华主张的以牙还牙vs耶稣的爱你们的仇敌,另外爱善待你的人和你的敌人并不等于爱所有人,无论你如何辩解,这个所谓耶稣的爱都是一种狭隘的爱,譬如说,你认为他爱被他亲手放到地狱里的人么?如果你要说,某人爱一个人但是可以因为这个人不相信这个爱而把对方放到火里一辈子火烧虫子咬,这也是爱的话,那你这个爱和一般人说的爱只怕不是一个东西
"你想,這三個人哪一個是落在強盜手中的鄰舍呢?」
他說:「是憐憫他的。」耶穌說:「你去照樣行吧。」"
耶稣同意的是:三个人中哪一个是邻居?是怜悯他那一个。
如何就成了三个都是邻居,甚至全世界的人都是邻居了?
这中间得多大的gap要填。为了填这个,去找些八杆子
打不着的章节就更无聊了。其它章节耶稣还说过不要把珍珠扔
狗跟前呢。这得多爱你的"世人邻居"才这么比喻啊。