Explosive study claims to prove Chinese scientists created COVID New study claims to have proof that Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a lab and then tried to reverse-engineer versions of the virus to make it look like it evolved naturally from bats. It was during their COVID-19 vaccine research that the pair came across "unique fingerprints" indicating the virus didn’t come from nature, they said. The telltale clue: a rare finding in the COVID-carrying virus of a row of four amino acids, which give off a positive charge and bond to negative human cells. “The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row," Dalgleish told the Daily Mail. "The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it." https://www.foxnews.com/world/explosive-study-claims-to-prove-chinese-scientists-created-covid.amp
“Tried to reverse engineering” is the keyword. Btw, do you understand the physics law in the quotation? If you think you understand it, you can challenge it to the authors.
Explosive study claims to prove Chinese scientists created COVID New study claims to have proof that Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a lab and then tried to reverse-engineer versions of the virus to make it look like it evolved naturally from bats. It was during their COVID-19 vaccine research that the pair came across "unique fingerprints" indicating the virus didn’t come from nature, they said. The telltale clue: a rare finding in the COVID-carrying virus of a row of four amino acids, which give off a positive charge and bond to negative human cells. “The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row," Dalgleish told the Daily Mail. "The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it." https://www.foxnews.com/world/explosive-study-claims-to-prove-chinese-scientists-created-covid.amp
本来懒得搭理这种没证据的阴谋论之一，但文章自相矛盾，前言不搭后语 既然“Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a lab”，那还需要啥“reverse-engineer”？ 只有美国造出covid，中国不会造，才会try to reverse-engineer， 如果说要造“中间版本”，那也说不上reverse-engineer啊，除非covid就是美国造或者自然造，才谈的上reverse-engineer 他们自己又说The study concludes: "the likelihood of it being the result of natural processes is very small."，small不是impossible，那不是自己打脸"The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row,"？整个自相矛盾，莫名其妙，lol
Fox新闻一般比较耸人听闻，不便评论。 美国最靠谱的主流新闻要看WSJ，国际上更严肃认真一些的是Financial Times, 风向就是实验室泄露正式从阴谋论走向前台，包括前些时候的Science公开信。 现在主流学术界共识就是：实验室泄露至少是和通过大自然中间宿主感染人类一样有可能，公开透明的溯源很有必要。 这是FT今天的编辑部社论： https://www.ft.com/content/e173e91a-9458-4a31-8c4e-5414f22a80dd Getting to the bottom of the Wuhan lab theory Understanding the origins of this pandemic is vital to prevent another THE EDITORIAL BOARD Added Virologists work at a lab in Wuhan. A leak from a lab is only a hypothesis, based entirely on circumstantial evidence, but a plausible one The editorial board 5 HOURS AGO Since the early weeks of the pandemic, rumours have swirled that coronavirus might have escaped from a laboratory in the Chinese city of Wuhan. Now the theory is again being taken seriously. President Joe Biden last week ordered US intelligence services to investigate whether Covid-19 “emerged from human contact with an infected animal or from a laboratory accident” and report back in 90 days. It would be far better for China finally to allow unfettered access to international investigators — unlikely as that may be — to hunt for the answer. A leak from a lab is only a hypothesis, based entirely on circumstantial evidence, but a plausible one. Wuhan’s Huanan seafood market where Covid-19 was initially detected is ideal for “zoonotic transfer” of a virus across the species barrier — wild animals were in close contact with each other and with humans. Yet it is also only 12km from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which houses a large collection of coronaviruses; another institute, the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, is even closer. Lab escapes have caused disease outbreaks before. Determining the truth is not about apportioning blame. It is vital to understand the origin of a disease that has killed at least 3.5m people if we are to prevent similar outbreaks in future. If zoonotic spillover was the cause, knowing the mechanisms could determine where changes are needed in animal handling and interaction with humans, and help in designing a global early warning system of future risks. If the virus came from a lab — and was somehow altered there — lessons can be drawn on the transparency and safety of bioresearch globally. Even US spy agencies’ formidable resources may be insufficient, however, to provide an answer with any certainty. And in a “post-truth” world, not just Beijing but plenty of other countries will reject any US claims to have uncovered coronavirus’s Chinese origin as information warfare. Instead, the world needs a full scientific investigation carried out by credible experts chosen by a multilateral body, and given access to all the data, people and locations it needs. For all its difficulties during the pandemic, the best body to handle this is the World Health Organization. Indeed, the lab escape hypothesis has re-emerged in large part as a result of an inconclusive WHO probe that was hampered by China’s lack of full co-operation. The WHO’s March report concluded transfer from a bat, via an intermediate host, was “likely to very likely”, and a laboratory incident “extremely unlikely”. Yet while investigators found Covid-like illness in late 2019 in some people associated with the Huanan market, the Sars-Cov-2 virus has never been found in an animal — so the source remains unknown. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, WHO director-general, said the assessment of a possible lab leak had not been “extensive enough”. Beijing seems to prefer the source to remain a mystery. China pressed WHO investigators to keep open the possibility that the virus arrived in Wuhan on frozen food; Chinese media have pushed the idea it was imported from elsewhere in the world. Donald Trump hardly made it easier for Beijing to be more open by insisting he would “make China pay” for the virus, though Biden has dropped such language. In its professed support for free trade in the face of Trump-era protectionism, and in its vaccine diplomacy, however, Beijing has tried to portray itself as a responsible global citizen. It may fear loss of face if proven conclusively to be Covid’s source. In fact, China would gain respect if it did switch, belatedly, to transparency and co-operation.
真相浮出水面。报导指出：早在去年，他们已经有了“在中国做了逆向工程”的主要证据，现在即将发表。他们去年被忽略，因为当时人们还被来自中国的谣言谎话所蒙骗。这项工作不需诺贝尔奖水平，而需良知和科学知识。they’ve had primary evidence "of retro-engineering in China" 他们在采访中对《每日邮报》说：他们追踪了疫情前已发表的中国研究成果，其中一些是如何构建创造病毒的工具的。中国的研究大部分工作涉及病毒的“功能获得”，即：在实验室中操纵天然病毒以使其更具有感染力。 他们在新冠病毒的“棘蛋白”上发现4种胺基酸并排，这些胺基酸都带有正电荷，会紧紧吸附人体细胞带负电荷的部分，因此更具传染性，但就如同磁铁，带正电的氨基酸会相互排斥，自然界的生物体中极为少见连续带有3个正电荷的胺基酸并排，连续4个更是“极不可能”。“物理定律意味着你不能连续拥有四个带正电荷的氨基酸。” “获得这种方法的唯一方法是人为地制造它。”
minren 发表于 2021-05-30 05:40
连续四个正电荷当然可能，只要周围有足够的负电荷就可以。 而且我同意之前有人说的，如果真这么强大的证据，那么文章应该发在science/nature。 新闻里面也说了，这两个做研究的，完全被major journal and academic ignore British Professor Angus Dalgleish and Norwegian scientist Dr. Birger Sørensen wrote they’ve had primary evidence "of retro-engineering in China" since last year, but were ignored by academics and major medical journals, 人家为什么ignore你? 这就像普通人看见大纪元时报的报道一样，觉得太荒诞，不值一提吧。
本来懒得搭理这种没证据的阴谋论之一，但文章自相矛盾，前言不搭后语 既然“Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a lab”，那还需要啥“reverse-engineer”？ 只有美国造出covid，中国不会造，才会try to reverse-engineer， 如果说要造“中间版本”，那也说不上reverse-engineer啊，除非covid就是美国造或者自然造，才谈的上reverse-engineer 他们自己又说The study concludes: "the likelihood of it being the result of natural processes is very small."，small不是impossible，那不是自己打脸"The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row,"？整个自相矛盾，莫名其妙，lol Seeking668 发表于 2021-05-30 09:47
白纸黑字自己写的“A bombshell new study claims to have proof that Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a lab and then tried to reverse-engineer versions of the virus to make it look like it evolved naturally from bats." 还“把病毒做旧“？ LOL
回复 43楼little_racoon的帖子 重要是后面这句“which give off a positive charge and bond to negative human cells.” 四个正电在binding surface上。如果没有其他病毒用这个binding positive-charged pattern的话，是个novel function. 加上这四个amino acid有critical function的排列没有见过，进化上是解释不通的。 基因比对永远是probabilistic的，就算是100%identical, 结论也不是100%的。基因学家扯这个就是刷流忙。
白纸黑字自己写的“A bombshell new study claims to have proof that Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a lab and then tried to reverse-engineer versions of the virus to make it look like it evolved naturally from bats." 还“把病毒做旧“？ LOL Seeking668 发表于 2021-05-30 10:36
🔥 最新回帖
动不动主子主子的，做奴才做上瘾了？
90天制造过硬证据，对FBI应该没问题。要相信FBI的能力！
没看出来拜登是将国内宣扬实验室泄露者的军吗？90天拿出过硬证据，否则shut up！
所谓陈薇军管武汉病毒所的出处，最后溯源到“娱乐八卦圈”。
🛋️ 沙发板凳
没有这个水平，失败流产了，所以跑出这个怪物，危害全世界。
看得懂英文不？明显意思是成功做到了啊
“Tried to reverse engineering” is the keyword. Btw, do you understand the physics law in the quotation? If you think you understand it, you can challenge it to the authors.
咋样？ 没有听她这么说
这次是谁？
如果你有内容批判，欢迎。如果作为一个医闹到这里胡闹，那就不欢迎了，请自爱。
他们在采访中对《每日邮报》说：他们追踪了疫情前已发表的中国研究成果，其中一些是如何构建创造病毒的工具的。中国的研究大部分工作涉及病毒的“功能获得”，即：在实验室中操纵天然病毒以使其更具有感染力。
他们在新冠病毒的“棘蛋白”上发现4种胺基酸并排，这些胺基酸都带有正电荷，会紧紧吸附人体细胞带负电荷的部分，因此更具传染性，但就如同磁铁，带正电的氨基酸会相互排斥，自然界的生物体中极为少见连续带有3个正电荷的胺基酸并排，连续4个更是“极不可能”。“物理定律意味着你不能连续拥有四个带正电荷的氨基酸。” “获得这种方法的唯一方法是人为地制造它。”
这个是报道了一个研究而已。你认为Fox 编造了着研究，还是你自己造Fox 的谣言？
很可惜，中国只能封自己国家的网。要是能封掉世界上所有国家的网络多好啊。
目测美华被打被杀还要升级。。。
其他不清楚，但你说的闫绝对是造谣
我印象中新冠病毒至少是spike protein的部分和其他的冠状病毒比起来没有什么很特别的地方，除了那个奇怪的PRRA插入
这是FT今天的编辑部社论：
https://www.ft.com/content/e173e91a-9458-4a31-8c4e-5414f22a80dd
Getting to the bottom of the Wuhan lab theory Understanding the origins of this pandemic is vital to prevent another THE EDITORIAL BOARD Added Virologists work at a lab in Wuhan. A leak from a lab is only a hypothesis, based entirely on circumstantial evidence, but a plausible one
The editorial board 5 HOURS AGO
Since the early weeks of the pandemic, rumours have swirled that coronavirus might have escaped from a laboratory in the Chinese city of Wuhan. Now the theory is again being taken seriously.
President Joe Biden last week ordered US intelligence services to investigate whether Covid-19 “emerged from human contact with an infected animal or from a laboratory accident” and report back in 90 days. It would be far better for China finally to allow unfettered access to international investigators — unlikely as that may be — to hunt for the answer.
A leak from a lab is only a hypothesis, based entirely on circumstantial evidence, but a plausible one. Wuhan’s Huanan seafood market where Covid-19 was initially detected is ideal for “zoonotic transfer” of a virus across the species barrier — wild animals were in close contact with each other and with humans. Yet it is also only 12km from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which houses a large collection of coronaviruses; another institute, the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, is even closer. Lab escapes have caused disease outbreaks before. Determining the truth is not about apportioning blame. It is vital to understand the origin of a disease that has killed at least 3.5m people if we are to prevent similar outbreaks in future.
If zoonotic spillover was the cause, knowing the mechanisms could determine where changes are needed in animal handling and interaction with humans, and help in designing a global early warning system of future risks. If the virus came from a lab — and was somehow altered there — lessons can be drawn on the transparency and safety of bioresearch globally.
Even US spy agencies’ formidable resources may be insufficient, however, to provide an answer with any certainty. And in a “post-truth” world, not just Beijing but plenty of other countries will reject any US claims to have uncovered coronavirus’s Chinese origin as information warfare. Instead, the world needs a full scientific investigation carried out by credible experts chosen by a multilateral body, and given access to all the data, people and locations it needs. For all its difficulties during the pandemic, the best body to handle this is the World Health Organization. Indeed, the lab escape hypothesis has re-emerged in large part as a result of an inconclusive WHO probe that was hampered by China’s lack of full co-operation.
The WHO’s March report concluded transfer from a bat, via an intermediate host, was “likely to very likely”, and a laboratory incident “extremely unlikely”. Yet while investigators found Covid-like illness in late 2019 in some people associated with the Huanan market, the Sars-Cov-2 virus has never been found in an animal — so the source remains unknown.
Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, WHO director-general, said the assessment of a possible lab leak had not been “extensive enough”. Beijing seems to prefer the source to remain a mystery. China pressed WHO investigators to keep open the possibility that the virus arrived in Wuhan on frozen food; Chinese media have pushed the idea it was imported from elsewhere in the world. Donald Trump hardly made it easier for Beijing to be more open by insisting he would “make China pay” for the virus, though Biden has dropped such language. In its professed support for free trade in the face of Trump-era protectionism, and in its vaccine diplomacy, however, Beijing has tried to portray itself as a responsible global citizen. It may fear loss of face if proven conclusively to be Covid’s source. In fact, China would gain respect if it did switch, belatedly, to transparency and co-operation.
no serological evidence of infection in workers through SARS-CoV-2-specific serology-screening
大家有兴趣可以看看。
https://context-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/2e611a82-8e1b-4373-96ed-b45397e97a35/note/cf813564-25b5-4c23-8c81-cfeb018f872d.
你说WHO的专家团有一个人被收买，我信，你说所有的专家都被收买，我不信。所以我觉得这份报告还是可靠的。
连续四个正电荷当然可能，只要周围有足够的负电荷就可以。
而且我同意之前有人说的，如果真这么强大的证据，那么文章应该发在science/nature。
新闻里面也说了，这两个做研究的，完全被major journal and academic ignore
British Professor Angus Dalgleish and Norwegian scientist Dr. Birger Sørensen wrote they’ve had primary evidence "of retro-engineering in China" since last year, but were ignored by academics and major medical journals,
人家为什么ignore你? 这就像普通人看见大纪元时报的报道一样，觉得太荒诞，不值一提吧。
同意这个说法。这病毒不是人造的。怎么每天这么多反智言论。。。
轮子湾湾黄脸亚裔能长成这样？
这就和中国大炒nationalism中国崛起，民进党林玮丰假扮中共攻击台湾一样。
这个图片里面"rejected by major scientific journals"已经说明问题了。这两个人就是在说胡话而以，也只有fox拿他们的话如获至宝。
学术界的庸才蠢才多的去了，呆过的人都知道。
好好看看人家哪里说了reverse engineer了，明明是retro engineering。 是说造出了新病毒，然后在retro engineering，抹去人工痕迹，把病毒做旧。
这新病毒到底是美国制造还是中国制造的？太厉害了人类，都可以从无到有的制造病毒了。
迅速军管的news link发一个？
我也觉得，连续四个正电荷氨基酸好像不是什么特别强大的证据。 SARS-COV-2和其他的beta冠状病毒的序列早就对比过了，有一个四个氨基酸的插入不知道是怎么演化出来的，相当于一下多了12个碱基，其他的地方相似部分很多，从别的病毒突变过来并不难
Engineer个病毒技术上又不难，就跟基因编辑婴儿一样，没底线就能做到
白纸黑字自己写的“A bombshell new study claims to have proof that Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a lab and then tried to reverse-engineer versions of the virus to make it look like it evolved naturally from bats." 还“把病毒做旧“？ LOL
重要是后面这句“which give off a positive charge and bond to negative human cells.” 四个正电在binding surface上。如果没有其他病毒用这个binding positive-charged pattern的话，是个novel function. 加上这四个amino acid有critical function的排列没有见过，进化上是解释不通的。
基因比对永远是probabilistic的，就算是100%identical, 结论也不是100%的。基因学家扯这个就是刷流忙。
是啊。这个没人管的话，每个大学都有lab可以做。
滚，你当华人上都白痴呢，连个最基本的记忆都没有。拿出中国那套愚民把戏翻脸就不认账
engineer出一个病毒当然不难，但是要engineer出一个完美病毒，就是难上加难。
举个例子，全世界要诞生多少个小孩才能诞生一个爱因斯坦?
你只要一直follow新闻就知道 who还在武汉调查的时候wsj就报道了新冠抗体测试的事，专家们提到即便当初有感染，因为自然感染获得的抗体一年多之后就衰减到无法检测的地步了。这也是为何原始病历raw data非常关键。
问题是去年不让who去武汉，拖了一年多再让去 目的是啥？
哎呀，shushi姐又出山了？小队长又想起这个ID可以用了？
华人上当然什么人都有，有聪明的也有白痴的。有证据就拿证据，没证据说出来的话自然没啥可信度。
https://3g.163.com/dy/article/F5NSAP6L0517DRJ7.html?spss=adap_pc
实际军管比这个报道时间再早几个星期。Google一下到处都是，。
报道没说serological test还有血样是什么时候采集的。不过既然WHO得出这个结果，那么证明专家对血样采集，测试没有疑问。
所以我说我想看看他们的文章到底说了些啥。
从目前已知的信息来看新冠病毒刚出来的时候和人ACE2的结合能力并不是最优，插入的那个PRRA序列也没有插在之前研究认为的最优位置，插入的这个序列本身似乎也不是最优，因为现在的印度变种已经把这个位置的氨基酸给突变掉了。我觉得这个病毒在实验室人工加压选择的情况下被进化出来是有可能的，但是不太可能是人工改造一个蝙蝠冠状病毒然后故意或者无意放出来。
又要转移话题了？到底这两人是不是轮子湾湾黄脸亚裔？
过去"rejected"而现在“set to be published in the Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery”，读英文报道不要忽略时态。
你说军管就这？哗众取宠吧。
陈薇是一个scientist。我觉得没有任何不妥。
否认陈薇接管的才没有可信度
我估计他要link 是打算把国内军管病毒所的新闻都抹掉。 但是集体记忆抹不掉，而且网上外网引用微博豆瓣的都是说二月七号以前就军管了。 陈薇是一月二十六号到武汉的。
google这个journal都搜不到，野鸡杂志吗？宁愿相信野鸡杂志？
知道这个很快会被spin成军医去援助。
你要笑话我你自己看看， 贴的最后一句，就是要把病毒做旧。 我是疏忽了reverse engineering，因为在病毒界，reverse engineering一般不是指把新病毒伪装成旧病毒。这个和编辑婴儿一样，技术上早就成熟，伦理上没人会这么去做。 但你永远都想不到居然有人真会去做。
说明不止我，一般人看起来就是这样，是你自己偏要往阴谋论上扯。
engineer出一个病毒当然不难，但是要engineer出一个完美病毒，就是难上加难。
感冒和爱滋同时流行了多少年了？产生什么完美病毒了吗？
举个例子，全世界要诞生多少个小孩才能诞生一个爱因斯坦?
这个病毒肯定是不是完美病毒。技术在进步，5年10年前能做到的“完美病毒”， 现在看来就是个beta版。 你不能说这个病毒不是完美病毒，就否认它不可能是人工的。
那你可以举一个比covid更完美的病毒吗？除了西班牙流感病毒，没有比他更完美的病毒了吧，西班牙流感都是一百年前的事情了。
当然，一切都是概率，我没有完全否认，但是可能性是0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%， WHO的report也说得很明白了。
军管这个词是国内报道国外引用的，不要好像对你是新闻一样。 我还记得当时有报道说军管不就病毒所放方向有一个晚上有特别大的类似爆炸的声音。报道也许找不到了，记忆还在。
爱因斯坦如果在自然生的孩子中当然很难得，但如果用他的基因在实验室克隆也许可以百分之一百。
因为有钱拿呗
天下熙熙皆为利来，天下攘攘皆为利往
武汉巨响的微博还没删，你自己慢慢看慢慢删不。
你去看评论，大家都是怎么评论的。 淫者见淫，你这种阴谋论的人，看什么都是阴谋。
那是你自己不懂怎么用Google
Impact 还不到3的杂志。。。。我不说什么了。editor还是挪威的。。。
考虑到也许他禁止用Google呢，不然军管新闻Link都要上来问。
劝你还是就事论事，看看他们到底写了什么再下结论
而且我不太相信WHO的人会对着当时实验室人员的名单挨个挨个叫来测抗体，还不是中国说什么他们就写什么。举个例子，WHO报告里面说实验都是在BSL3和BSL4的实验室做的，其实你仔细读一下石正丽手下学生的毕业论文，很多重建蝙蝠冠状病毒然后拿来测试对人细胞感染能力的实验都是在BSL2的实验室做的
我看了新闻报道，觉得journal article没有必要再看下去了，四个正电荷就不可能？谬论。
你既然觉得四个正电荷有可能，那你可以去看看，然后和大家说一下吗？
这就是你自己的猜测了，你怎么知道WHO的专家团里面没有较真的人？ 既然是科学家，我宁愿相信这些没有报道过明显政治倾向的。
这是一贯的伎俩，记得去年疫情发生还不到一年，武汉的本地报纸上报道的疫情经过就已经开始细节上篡改了，当整个武汉全部中国人都是傻子，都失忆呢。以后多年以后，在中国官方历史上更不知到被篡改成什么样了。
你带着偏见来看问题，永远得不到真相。就像有一些婆婆看媳妇，媳妇作的再好，也可以找理由挑刺。媳妇放个屁，婆婆都会说他故意做毒气弹。
英国剑桥大学出版的SJR ranking第五的科学杂志被你说成是野鸡杂志，网评员是学历低还是故意造谣？
石教授的学生做重建蝙蝠病毒感染人细胞的实验，这是不是所谓的gain of function病毒研究？
你没有念过PHD发过文章的就不要来扯了。impact factor代表了一切。
知道你是无毛但还是回一句，没那么难，把已知高传播基因和已知高致病基因结合起来，造个几十个strain肯定能造出一个superstrain。人类真要在实验室里造superflu也是分分钟的事你信不信。你举的例子完全驴唇不对马嘴，别跟那搅浑水了
但是从客观的角度，可疑的有下面几点， 一个是病毒所迅速军管。 一个是高调传播美国造病毒的谣言。 一个是春节前后，高调发过一个实验室安全公告。
连杂志的名字都不知道，你当然搜不到了。不要来丢人现眼了。