Roth 401K是算在每年＄16500之内的，Roth IRA是另外的$5000，如果你想max out $16500之后额外多存退休金，就存这$5000 Roth IRA Roth 401K在70 1/2岁之后必须开始提取，roth IRA不用 roth IRA可以第一次买房的时候取$10000,Roth 401K不可以 谢谢替我回答了。补充一个，家庭收入超过线的话，不可以存ROTH，只可以存non-deductible traditional IRA，不过可以convert to Roth。 MM你也周末愉快！
对于W2高工资的家庭来说，2010年赶紧转以前的non-deductible to roth IRA能够省不少税的。这个是税法的loophole，需要take advantage of。
我家我是financial planner，专门琢磨如何省税。
我今年是这样操作的：卖了brokerage account里面2万刀mutual funds，take了4000刀的loss，然后用这个钱算作2009和2010年的non-deductible traditional IRA。这样我这个4000刀loss算作investment loss，可以抵消capital gain distribution，如果还有多余部分可以用来抵税。然后我的钱进了non-deductible traditional IRA，马上转成ROTH IRA，以后所有的withdraw又tax free了，很赚啊。
hehe. you did not understand what she has done. that is different type of account. Besides, she does not have to buy the same MF with her Roth IRA. she could buy index funds, individual stocks, or bonds.
Also remember that is non-deductable account, not your 401k or regular IRA.
non-deductible IRA 是指放进去的钱不能从收入里面去掉，不是说如果有capital gain/loss不交税/抵税吧，否则和roth有什么区别呢？
跟wash sale没有任何关系。 我首先卖掉brokerage account里面的MF，转变成cash，那么年底会收到一张1099表，显示我的capital loss。 然后我把cash转入non-deductible traditional IRA， 再把我的non-deductible traditional IRA convert成ROTH IRA，等到convert完后才会在Roth IRA里面把同样的MF买回来。 ROTH本来就是税后的account，以后取的时候也不需要交税的，各大投资公司不需要向IRS汇报里面的交易情况的。 所以根本不算wash sale，根本就是不同性质的account。 [此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 19:03:23编辑过]
http://www.fairmark.com/capgain/wash/wsira.htm
爱宝宝，上面连接里面好像说用IRA来buy back也是不允许的（如果是within wash sale period)。只不过象你说的，因为这部分transaction is not reported, IRS要追查起来不容易就是了。
"The wash sale rule says you lose your deduction for stock sold at a loss if you buy identical shares within 30 days before or after the sale. Some people have suggested you can avoid the wash sale rule if you sell shares at a loss in a regular brokerage account and, at the same time, buy replacement shares in an IRA. The idea is that the IRA is a distinct "person" for tax purposes, and the wash sale rule shouldn't apply if the replacement shares are bought by a different person. 。。。 Now the IRS has published a ruling (Rev. Rul. 2008-5) that lays down the law: you lose your capital loss deduction if you use this strategy. 。。。 The ruling specifies, in addition, that you do not obtain an adjustment to the basis of your traditional or Roth IRA when the rule applies. That means — as we've often warned here — the result is worse than a normal wash sale, because the loss is permanently disallowed rather than being added to the basis of the replacement shares."
以下是引用juniebugca在4/9/2010 2:19:00 PM的发言： lovemybaby, great post. I'm doing our taxes and was shocked to find out how much tax we need to pay. After reading your post, i've decided i need to take a tax class to figure out how to save some money! Do have two questions, 1. my husband works for a startup, they don't currently have any retirement plan. I was looking at the SEP-IRA vs. SIMPLE IRA, still confused after reading through fidelity and other website, what would you recommend and why? 2. i have some rental properties, can i set those up as a separate business and be able to take advantage of the SEP-IRA from the profit? Thanks in advance!
It is alll about Tax planning. You and your husband could still buy traditional IRA and Roth IRA (you could still buy now for 2009). Starup does not matter. 401k typically has limited access. If your company does not match 401k, buying traditional IRA and Roth IRA is no brainer. i have some rental properties
I would still open a small business for it if you have positive cash flow. You could put almost everything into expense, car (depreciation and mileage), restaurant, home improment, etc.
爱宝宝，上面连接里面好像说用IRA来buy back也是不允许的（如果是within wash sale period)。只不过象你说的，因为这部分transaction is not reported, IRS要追查起来不容易就是了。
"The wash sale rule says you lose your deduction for stock sold at a loss if you buy identical shares within 30 days before or after the sale. Some people have suggested you can avoid the wash sale rule if you sell shares at a loss in a regular brokerage account and, at the same time, buy replacement shares in an IRA. The idea is that the IRA is a distinct "person" for tax purposes, and the wash sale rule shouldn't apply if the replacement shares are bought by a different person.
..... The ruling (Rev. Rul. 2008-5) specifies, in addition, that you do not obtain an adjustment to the basis of your traditional or Roth IRA when the rule applies. That means — as we've often warned here — the result is worse than a normal wash sale, because the loss is permanently disallowed rather than being added to the basis of the replacement shares."
“This rule will continue to be difficult for the IRS to enforce. Purchases and sales occurring within an IRA are not reported on Form 1099-B and will not show up in your individual brokerage account statement。”这一段你也看到了，IRS没法查的，ROTH IRA是不需要向IRS汇报的，要是他们来audit的时候，再去查你ROTH IRA的每笔交易，他们也得累死不可。更何况我这种情况已经转了几道弯了，从brokerage转到了traditional，再从ROTH里面买回来的。要是实在紧张的话，就买点儿相似的MF好了，比如卖掉的是S&P 500 index，在ROTH买回来的是extendend US market index好了。
non-deductible IRA 是指放进去的钱不能从收入里面去掉，不是说如果有capital gain/loss不交税/抵税吧，否则和roth有什么区别呢？
oh...又看了一遍，也许你这里是指ROTH是一个non-deductible account?
non-deductible traditional IRA和Roth IRA的区别在于：两者都是存的税后的钱，但是non-deductible traditional IRA在以后取的时候，capital gain部分需要交税，ROTH则不需要交任何税。
non-deductible traditional IRA和deductible traditional IRA的区别在于：non-deductible traditional IRA以后再取的时候，capital gain部分需要交税，而deductible traditional IRA则是本金和capital gain部分都需要交税。
你又出来误导人了。 还是我自己去回答她上面那个问题吧。 I am telling the truth. She would agree with me once you explain it. How about my post below? Average Joes could understand and benefit from it. they do not need a CFA as you or CPA concentrated in tax planng to understand what you are talking about.
You and your husband could still buy traditional IRA and Roth IRA (you could still buy now for 2009). Starup does not matter. 401k typically has limited access. If your company does not match 401k, buying traditional IRA and Roth IRA is no brainer. i have some rental properties
I would still open a small business for it if you have positive cash flow. You could put almost everything into expense, car (depreciation and mileage), restaurant, home improment, etc.
add a note for you: non-deductable IRA: after you put 100% of regular IRA and Roth IRA, if you still have money, you could put money into non-deductable IRA
I am telling the truth. She would agree with me once you explain it. How about my post below? Average Joes could understand and benefit from it. they do not need a CFA as you or CPA concentrated in tax planng to understand what you are talking about.
You and your husband could still buy traditional IRA and Roth IRA (you could still buy now for 2009). Starup does not matter. 401k typically has limited access. If your company does not match 401k, buying traditional IRA and Roth IRA is no brainer. i have some rental properties
I would still open a small business for it if you have positive cash flow. You could put almost everything into expense, car (depreciation and mileage), restaurant, home improment, etc.
Show me the fake money. Show me the fake money. 你自己的回答往往不全面，或者容易误导，所以你还是甭替我回答了，免得大家过来一看回答，还以为是我说的话呢。 这两个问题我已经答过了。 她问的是SEP-IRA vs. SIMPLE IRA，我说过了，这两个都需要有employer的信息才可以开的，也就是说需要employer来sponsor的。 拥有一到两个rental properties，从税法上来说，并不属于active business的，是算passive income的。确实可以抵消很多expenses，但是如果properties数目很少，并不能算作active business的。 你说的这些资格证书我们家都占全了。那么多年的书也不是白念了的。
add a note for you: non-deductable IRA: after you put 100% of regular IRA and Roth IRA, if you still have money, you could put money into non-deductable IRA
SEP-IRA vs. SIMPLE IRA is too late for 2009. besides, her husband's boss may not want to do this (most small business owner are not as sophisticated as you). Besides, Starup may not even make money. His boss may need every penny to survive.
I think she and her husband has not put money into IRA as all. Otherwise, they should not owe money to uncle Sam.
Of course, you knows one thousand times more than me about finance and tax. but I am telling her what she need to know.
SEP-IRA vs. SIMPLE IRA is too late for 2009. SEP-IRA在4月15号以前都是可以的。我自己的SEP-IRA是昨天刚刚以overnight快件寄出的。 besides, her husband's boss may not want to do this (most small business owner are not as sophisticated as you). Besides, Starup may not even make money. His boss may need every penny to survive. 跟他老板要不要钱来survive根本无关。SIMPLE-IRA确实是需要payroll deduction的，需要双方都过目签字同意才行的。（SIMPLE-IRA一般有employer match的，up to 3%，SEP-IRA一般没有employer match）SEP-IRA的话，只要拿的不是W-2的工资，确实可以在4月15号之前把支票寄去的。
I think she and her husband has not put money into IRA as all. Otherwise, they should not owe money to uncle Sam. 她根本没说有没有欠税。这话又从何而来？
Of course, you knows one thousand times about Finance and Tax more than me. but I am telling her what she need to know. 再次拜托你一下，甭替我答问题了好不好？要是回答的话，好歹也先去google一下学明白了再来替我回答好不好？
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 20:31:14编辑过] I see. i confused her with juniebugca. it was started with Sep and Simple.
As a small business owner myself with a full time job and I know many small business friends. They do not know much about Sep or Simple. Not many people has a CFA and as sophisticated, OK? I will probably open a Sep myself in 2010 if I makes a lots of money with my SB. but I do not think there is enought time to open Sep for 2009. If his boss do not want to open IRA for himself, why would he help her husband?
I am in my CFA process and I helped my wife with her CPA. I do know what you are talking about.
I admire your achievement and read most of your post. I do not want to argue with you and I do not think I really said anything wrong. My English is not good. It is OK if you do not know what I was saying.
I see. i confused her with juniebugca. it was started with Sep and Simple.
As a small business owner myself with a full time job and I know many small business friends. They do not know much about Sep or Simple. Not many people has a CFA and as sophisticated, OK? I will probably open a Sep myself in 2010 if I makes a lots of money with my SB. but I do not think there is enought time to open Sep for 2009. If his boss do not want to open IRA for himself, why would he help her husband? 不管他老板自己是不是contribute的，只需要business的registration info和知会一下老板，个人是可以在公司的名字下开自己SEP的。（当然公司不能有401K或者其他形式的退休金）SIMPLE-IRA更加需要老板同意，SEP-IRA好说多了，反正不需要公司match。
I am in my CFA process and I helped my wife with her CPA. I do know what you are talking about. 你几个礼拜前说你是structure engineer，前天说自己打工宰，怎么现在又去考CFA了？还是你是十项全能？
I admire your achievement and read most of your post. I do not want to argue with you and I do not think I really said anything wrong. My English is not good. It is OK if you do not know what I was saying.
如果雇主出了W2表的话，确实需要发钱给你的时候就帮你deduct。但是如果你是sole proprietor, in a partnership, or a business owner，不到算税表的时候你都不知道最多可以deduct多少钱去sep-ira，所以像我这种情况，我把税表算好了之后才存的sep-ira，这就是差别之处。
如果雇主出了W2表的话，确实需要发钱给你的时候就帮你deduct。但是如果你是sole proprietor, in a partnership, or a business owner，不到算税表的时候你都不知道最多可以deduct多少钱去sep-ira，所以像我这种情况，我把税表算好了之后才存的sep-ira，这就是差别之处。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 21:20:37编辑过] lovemybaby, we've decided to go forward with setting up the SEP-IRA, there is no issue from my husband's company in approving it. I try to do a "what if" analysis on the turbotax to see how this may work, after i enter the sep-ira contribution amount, the program ask me about the self-employment income amount, i'm a little confused about this. Since my husband does get a w-2 form, i don't think those can count as self-employement income, but if i enter 0 for this question, the SEP-IRA contribution has no impact on our tax return. What should i do? Thanks so much.
Just because you have a business, it doesn't mean that you'll be audited, we just want you to be aware that statistically, the IRS selects more returns including a Schedule C for audit. About 3 times as many to be precise. It's particularly important that you have good records:
-Keep all receipts for any deductions and credits related to your business. -Make sure that you've included all of the income reported to you on any Forms 1099-MISC.
It's a good idea to have a separate business and personal checking accounts and credit cards as a simple way to maintain these records.
lovemybaby, we've decided to go forward with setting up the SEP-IRA, there is no issue from my husband's company in approving it. I try to do a "what if" analysis on the turbotax to see how this may work, after i enter the sep-ira contribution amount, the program ask me about the self-employment income amount, i'm a little confused about this. Since my husband does get a w-2 form, i don't think those can count as self-employement income, but if i enter 0 for this question, the SEP-IRA contribution has no impact on our tax return. What should i do? Thanks so much.
Please check this link out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/401%28k%29_IRA_matrix
Roth 401K是算在每年＄16500之内的，Roth IRA是另外的$5000，如果你想max out $16500之后额外多存退休金，就存这$5000 Roth IRA
Roth 401K在70 1/2岁之后必须开始提取，roth IRA不用
roth IRA可以第一次买房的时候取$10000,Roth 401K不可以
谢谢替我回答了。补充一个，家庭收入超过线的话，不可以存ROTH，只可以存non-deductible traditional IRA，不过可以convert to Roth。 MM你也周末愉快！
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/9 18:16:45编辑过]
Business主要是和计算机相关的，但是我们也有rental房子，没有把rental的收入上报，是不是不行抵税了？
那不行的，你不可能两头的便宜都占着。如果rental income报税的话，还勉强可以偷偷减掉，不过也要小心，如果你的rental是condo的话，你也不太好justify装修地下室。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/9 18:23:22编辑过]
那个link解释得好清楚, 我是今年放不了roth, 不知道是先放none-deductable traditional再转roth IRA折腾折腾, 还是干脆放点进roth 401k. traditional convert to Roth是只有今年可以吗? 还是从今年起每年都可以?
1. 必须他的公司设立SIMPLE IRA, 他作为雇员无权自己设立这个账户的。SEP-IRA虽然可以自己设，但是也需要公司名字和其他信息的。
2. rental properties必须达到一定数目 （具体几个我忘记了），才可以算作active business。否则一般rental properties算为passive income/business，还是跟active business有差别的。拥有两rental properties，从税法上来说不能算作self-employeed income。你可以抵税，mortgage啊property tax啊都可以用来抵消你的rental income部分。
Thanks, lovemybaby! Let me check the minimum rental properties for it to be an active business.
那个link解释得好清楚, 我是今年放不了roth, 不知道是先放none-deductable traditional再转roth IRA折腾折腾, 还是干脆放点进roth 401k. traditional convert to Roth是只有今年可以吗? 还是从今年起每年都可以?
从现在开始都行，但是说不准什么时候会改税法变回去。
以下是引用lovemybaby在4/7/2010 10:17:00 PM的发言：
对的，所以我才说了，各家的情况都不同，很难一概而论的。要想把大家都讲懂，太花时间了，我最近还挺忙的，没多少工夫。
对于W2高工资的家庭来说，2010年赶紧转以前的non-deductible to roth IRA能够省不少税的。这个是税法的loophole，需要take advantage of。
我家我是financial planner，专门琢磨如何省税。
我今年是这样操作的：卖了brokerage account里面2万刀mutual funds，take了4000刀的loss，然后用这个钱算作2009和2010年的non-deductible traditional IRA。这样我这个4000刀loss算作investment loss，可以抵消capital gain distribution，如果还有多余部分可以用来抵税。然后我的钱进了non-deductible traditional IRA，马上转成ROTH IRA，以后所有的withdraw又tax free了，很赚啊。
MM你看明白我的操作过程了吗？
hehe. you did not understand what she has done. that is different type of account. Besides, she does not have to buy the same MF with her Roth IRA. she could buy index funds, individual stocks, or bonds.
Also remember that is non-deductable account, not your 401k or regular IRA.
non-deductible IRA 是指放进去的钱不能从收入里面去掉，不是说如果有capital gain/loss不交税/抵税吧，否则和roth有什么区别呢？
oh...又看了一遍，也许你这里是指ROTH是一个non-deductible account?
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 19:30:19编辑过]
接着上面的讨论在问一个问题，爱宝宝如何一卖一买的情形下，如何能避免被算成wash sale?
跟wash sale没关系。（哪怕有也算没有）
我首先卖掉brokerage account里面的MF，转变成cash，那么年底会收到一张1099表，显示我的capital loss。
然后我把cash转入non-deductible traditional IRA，
再把我的non-deductible traditional IRA convert成ROTH IRA，等到convert完后才会在Roth IRA里面把同样的MF买回来。
ROTH本来就是税后的account，以后取的时候也不需要交税的，各大投资公司不需要向IRS汇报里面的交易情况的。
所以不算wash sale，不同性质的account，IRS没法查的。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 19:52:48编辑过]
跟wash sale没有任何关系。
我首先卖掉brokerage account里面的MF，转变成cash，那么年底会收到一张1099表，显示我的capital loss。
然后我把cash转入non-deductible traditional IRA，
再把我的non-deductible traditional IRA convert成ROTH IRA，等到convert完后才会在Roth IRA里面把同样的MF买回来。
ROTH本来就是税后的account，以后取的时候也不需要交税的，各大投资公司不需要向IRS汇报里面的交易情况的。
所以根本不算wash sale，根本就是不同性质的account。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 19:03:23编辑过]
http://www.fairmark.com/capgain/wash/wsira.htm
爱宝宝，上面连接里面好像说用IRA来buy back也是不允许的（如果是within wash sale period)。只不过象你说的，因为这部分transaction is not reported, IRS要追查起来不容易就是了。
"The wash sale rule says you lose your deduction for stock sold at a loss if you buy identical shares within 30 days before or after the sale. Some people have suggested you can avoid the wash sale rule if you sell shares at a loss in a regular brokerage account and, at the same time, buy replacement shares in an IRA. The idea is that the IRA is a distinct "person" for tax purposes, and the wash sale rule shouldn't apply if the replacement shares are bought by a different person.
。。。
Now the IRS has published a ruling (Rev. Rul. 2008-5) that lays down the law: you lose your capital loss deduction if you use this strategy.
。。。
The ruling specifies, in addition, that you do not obtain an adjustment to the basis of your traditional or Roth IRA when the rule applies. That means — as we've often warned here — the result is worse than a normal wash sale, because the loss is permanently disallowed rather than being added to the basis of the replacement shares."
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 19:27:53编辑过]
lovemybaby, great post. I'm doing our taxes and was shocked to find out how much tax we need to pay. After reading your post, i've decided i need to take a tax class to figure out how to save some money! Do have two questions,
1. my husband works for a startup, they don't currently have any retirement plan. I was looking at the SEP-IRA vs. SIMPLE IRA, still confused after reading through fidelity and other website, what would you recommend and why?
2. i have some rental properties, can i set those up as a separate business and be able to take advantage of the SEP-IRA from the profit?
Thanks in advance!
It is alll about Tax planning. You and your husband could still buy traditional IRA and Roth IRA (you could still buy now for 2009). Starup does not matter. 401k typically has limited access. If your company does not match 401k, buying traditional IRA and Roth IRA is no brainer.
i have some rental properties
I would still open a small business for it if you have positive cash flow. You could put almost everything into expense, car (depreciation and mileage), restaurant, home improment, etc.
Show me the fake money. Show me the fake money.
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 19:33:20编辑过]
http://www.fairmark.com/capgain/wash/wsira.htm
爱宝宝，上面连接里面好像说用IRA来buy back也是不允许的（如果是within wash sale period)。只不过象你说的，因为这部分transaction is not reported, IRS要追查起来不容易就是了。
"The wash sale rule says you lose your deduction for stock sold at a loss if you buy identical shares within 30 days before or after the sale. Some people have suggested you can avoid the wash sale rule if you sell shares at a loss in a regular brokerage account and, at the same time, buy replacement shares in an IRA. The idea is that the IRA is a distinct "person" for tax purposes, and the wash sale rule shouldn't apply if the replacement shares are bought by a different person.
.....
The ruling (Rev. Rul. 2008-5) specifies, in addition, that you do not obtain an adjustment to the basis of your traditional or Roth IRA when the rule applies. That means — as we've often warned here — the result is worse than a normal wash sale, because the loss is permanently disallowed rather than being added to the basis of the replacement shares."
“This rule will continue to be difficult for the IRS to
enforce. Purchases and sales occurring within an IRA are not
reported on Form 1099-B and will not show up in your individual
brokerage account statement。”这一段你也看到了，IRS没法查的，ROTH IRA是不需要向IRS汇报的，要是他们来audit的时候，再去查你ROTH IRA的每笔交易，他们也得累死不可。更何况我这种情况已经转了几道弯了，从brokerage转到了traditional，再从ROTH里面买回来的。要是实在紧张的话，就买点儿相似的MF好了，比如卖掉的是S&P 500 index，在ROTH买回来的是extendend US market index好了。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 19:22:16编辑过]
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 19:32:24编辑过]
non-deductible IRA 是指放进去的钱不能从收入里面去掉，不是说如果有capital gain/loss不交税/抵税吧，否则和roth有什么区别呢？
oh...又看了一遍，也许你这里是指ROTH是一个non-deductible account?
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 19:30:19编辑过]
Hehe. Unless you are as rich and sophisticated as lovemybaby, do need to know about non-deductible IRA.
Hehe. Unless you are as rich and sophisticated as lovemybaby, do need to know about non-deductible IRA.
你又出来误导人了。
还是我自己去回答她上面那个问题吧。
non-deductible IRA 是指放进去的钱不能从收入里面去掉，不是说如果有capital gain/loss不交税/抵税吧，否则和roth有什么区别呢？
oh...又看了一遍，也许你这里是指ROTH是一个non-deductible account?
non-deductible traditional IRA和Roth IRA的区别在于：两者都是存的税后的钱，但是non-deductible traditional IRA在以后取的时候，capital gain部分需要交税，ROTH则不需要交任何税。
non-deductible traditional IRA和deductible traditional IRA的区别在于：non-deductible traditional IRA以后再取的时候，capital gain部分需要交税，而deductible traditional IRA则是本金和capital gain部分都需要交税。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 19:30:19编辑过]
你又出来误导人了。
还是我自己去回答她上面那个问题吧。
I am telling the truth. She would agree with me once you explain it. How about my post below? Average Joes could understand and benefit from it. they do not need a CFA as you or CPA concentrated in tax planng to understand what you are talking about.
You and your husband could still buy traditional IRA and Roth IRA (you could still buy now for 2009). Starup does not matter. 401k typically has limited access. If your company does not match 401k, buying traditional IRA and Roth IRA is no brainer.
i have some rental properties
I would still open a small business for it if you have positive cash flow. You could put almost everything into expense, car (depreciation and mileage), restaurant, home improment, etc.
Show me the fake money. Show me the fake money.
add a note for you:
non-deductable IRA: after you put 100% of regular IRA and Roth IRA, if you still have money, you could put money into non-deductable IRA
I am telling the truth. She would agree with me once you explain it. How about my post below? Average Joes could understand and benefit from it. they do not need a CFA as you or CPA concentrated in tax planng to understand what you are talking about.
You and your husband could still buy traditional IRA and Roth IRA (you could still buy now for 2009). Starup does not matter. 401k typically has limited
access. If your company does not match 401k, buying traditional IRA and Roth IRA is no brainer.
i have some rental properties
I would still open a small business for it if you have positive cash flow. You could put almost everything into expense, car (depreciation and mileage), restaurant, home improment, etc.
Show me the fake money. Show me the fake money.
你自己的回答往往不全面，或者容易误导，所以你还是甭替我回答了，免得大家过来一看回答，还以为是我说的话呢。
这两个问题我已经答过了。
她问的是SEP-IRA vs. SIMPLE IRA，我说过了，这两个都需要有employer的信息才可以开的，也就是说需要employer来sponsor的。
拥有一到两个rental properties，从税法上来说，并不属于active business的，是算passive income的。确实可以抵消很多expenses，但是如果properties数目很少，并不能算作active business的。
你说的这些资格证书我们家都占全了。那么多年的书也不是白念了的。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 21:15:52编辑过]
add a note for you:
non-deductable IRA: after you put 100% of regular IRA and Roth IRA, if you still have money, you could put money into non-deductable IRA
我求你了，甭替我回答问题了，好不好？
你说的是不正确的，童鞋！
谢谢解释。那如果在IRA里面买卖多次，每次交易有capital gain都会被记录下来然后等要拿出来的时候再缴税，还是看最后的绝对值呢？比如前面几十年赚了，但是很不幸在最后几年都亏本了呢？是盈利和亏损抵消之后的绝对值才需要交税吗？
SEP-IRA vs. SIMPLE IRA is too late for 2009. besides, her husband's boss may not want to do this (most small business owner are not as sophisticated as you). Besides, Starup may not even make money. His boss may need every penny to survive.
I think she and her husband has not put money into IRA as all. Otherwise, they should not owe money to uncle Sam.
Of course, you knows one thousand times more than me about finance and tax. but I am telling her what she need to know.
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 20:11:11编辑过]
童鞋，我受不了你啦。你就不能不回答啊？
SEP-IRA vs. SIMPLE IRA is too late for 2009.
SEP-IRA在4月15号以前都是可以的。我自己的SEP-IRA是昨天刚刚以overnight快件寄出的。
besides, her husband's boss may not want to do this (most small business owner are not as sophisticated as you). Besides, Starup may not even make money. His boss may need every penny to survive.
跟他老板要不要钱来survive根本无关。SIMPLE-IRA确实是需要payroll deduction的，需要双方都过目签字同意才行的。（SIMPLE-IRA一般有employer match的，up to 3%，SEP-IRA一般没有employer match）SEP-IRA的话，只要拿的不是W-2的工资，确实可以在4月15号之前把支票寄去的。
I think she and her husband has not put money into IRA as all. Otherwise, they should not owe money to uncle Sam.
她根本没说有没有欠税。这话又从何而来？
Of course, you knows one thousand times about Finance and Tax more than me. but I am telling her what she need to know.
再次拜托你一下，甭替我答问题了好不好？要是回答的话，好歹也先去google一下学明白了再来替我回答好不好？
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 21:17:56编辑过]
谢谢解释。那如果在IRA里面买卖多次，每次交易有capital gain都会被记录下来然后等要拿出来的时候再缴税，还是看最后的绝对值呢？比如前面几十年赚了，但是很不幸在最后几年都亏本了呢？是盈利和亏损抵消之后的绝对值才需要交税吗？
不是，最后取的时候算总帐，中间的交易数忽略不管的。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 20:31:14编辑过]
I see. i confused her with juniebugca. it was started with Sep and Simple.
As a small business owner myself with a full time job and I know many small business friends. They do not know much about Sep or Simple. Not many people has a CFA and as sophisticated, OK? I will probably open a Sep myself in 2010 if I makes a lots of money with my SB. but I do not think there is enought time to open Sep for 2009. If his boss do not want to open IRA for himself, why would he help her husband?
I am in my CFA process and I helped my wife with her CPA. I do know what you are talking about.
I admire your achievement and read most of your post. I do not want to argue with you and I do not think I really said anything wrong. My English is not good. It is OK if you do not know what I was saying.
I see. i confused her with juniebugca. it was started with Sep and Simple.
As a small business owner myself with a full time job and I know many small business friends. They do not know much about Sep or Simple. Not many people has a CFA and as sophisticated, OK? I will probably open a Sep myself in 2010 if I makes a lots of money with my SB. but I do not think there is enought time to open Sep for 2009. If his boss do not want to open IRA for himself, why would he help her husband?
不管他老板自己是不是contribute的，只需要business的registration info和知会一下老板，个人是可以在公司的名字下开自己SEP的。（当然公司不能有401K或者其他形式的退休金）SIMPLE-IRA更加需要老板同意，SEP-IRA好说多了，反正不需要公司match。
I am in my CFA process and I helped my wife with her CPA. I do know what you are talking about.
你几个礼拜前说你是structure engineer，前天说自己打工宰，怎么现在又去考CFA了？还是你是十项全能？
I admire your achievement and read most of your post. I do not want to argue with you and I do not think I really said anything wrong. My English is not good. It is OK if you do not know what I was saying.
那你写中文啊，老写英文干嘛？我除了vacation的时候打英文，平时我尽量写中文。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 21:19:12编辑过]
爱宝宝，为什么我在网上找到的关于sep-ira的信息里面都说sep-ira是雇主contribute呢？唯一的例外是SARSEPs，但是SARSEPs97年之后就不允许了？
如果雇主出了W2表的话，确实需要发钱给你的时候就帮你deduct。但是如果你是sole proprietor, in a partnership, or a business owner，不到算税表的时候你都不知道最多可以deduct多少钱去sep-ira，所以像我这种情况，我把税表算好了之后才存的sep-ira，这就是差别之处。
其实就是两种情况，一种：你是真正的给其他人打工开的这些退休金帐号，另一种：你是self-employed，自己开的这些帐号。咱们大多数人应该属于第二种。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 21:20:37编辑过]
如果雇主出了W2表的话，确实需要发钱给你的时候就帮你deduct。但是如果你是sole proprietor, in a partnership, or a business owner，不到算税表的时候你都不知道最多可以deduct多少钱去sep-ira，所以像我这种情况，我把税表算好了之后才存的sep-ira，这就是差别之处。
其实就是两种情况，一种：你是真正的给其他人打工开的这些退休金帐号，另一种：你是self-employed，自己开的这些帐号。咱们大多数人应该属于第二种。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 21:20:37编辑过]
lovemybaby, we've decided to go forward with setting up the SEP-IRA, there is no issue from my husband's company in approving it. I try to do a "what if" analysis on the turbotax to see how this may work, after i enter the sep-ira contribution amount, the program ask me about the self-employment income amount, i'm a little confused about this. Since my husband does get a w-2 form, i don't think those can count as self-employement income, but if i enter 0 for this question, the SEP-IRA contribution has no impact on our tax return. What should i do? Thanks so much.
我跟lg属于不会投资的，高收益是不指望的，但6%的收益的确不高。好处是多一个保险。这样算起来，合算么？
跟wash sale没关系。（哪怕有也算没有）
我首先卖掉brokerage account里面的MF，转变成cash，那么年底会收到一张1099表，显示我的capital loss。
然后我把cash转入non-deductible traditional IRA，
再把我的non-deductible traditional IRA convert成ROTH IRA，等到convert完后才会在Roth IRA里面把同样的MF买回来。
ROTH本来就是税后的account，以后取的时候也不需要交税的，各大投资公司不需要向IRS汇报里面的交易情况的。
所以不算wash sale，不同性质的account，IRS没法查的。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 19:52:48编辑过]
哈哈...原来如此....我觉得理财最主要的就是变通....爱宝宝的方法都是直接跳出原来的框架...
哈哈...原来如此....我觉得理财最主要的就是变通....爱宝宝的方法都是直接跳出原来的框架...
我本来就擅长山寨啊！！！
友情提醒一下各位MM们，有side business，特别是有亏本的side business的一定要非常小心：
Just because you have a business, it doesn't mean that you'll be audited, we just want you to be aware that statistically, the IRS selects more returns including a Schedule C for audit. About 3 times as many to be precise. It's particularly important that you have good records:
-Keep all receipts for any deductions and credits related to your business.
-Make sure that you've included all of the income reported to you on any Forms 1099-MISC.
It's a good idea to have a separate business and personal checking accounts and credit cards as a simple way to maintain these records.
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 21:42:32编辑过]
lovemybaby, we've decided to go forward with setting up the SEP-IRA, there is no issue from my husband's company in approving it. I try to do a "what if" analysis on the turbotax to see how this may work, after i enter the sep-ira contribution amount, the program ask me about the self-employment income amount, i'm a little confused about this. Since my husband does get a w-2 form, i don't think those can count as self-employement income, but if i enter 0 for this question, the SEP-IRA contribution has no impact on our tax return. What should i do? Thanks so much.
我跟你说：其实吧，开SEP-IRA是非常轻松的事，还真不像SIMPLE IRA，麻烦的要死。SIMPLE-IRA唯一往里面放钱的办法就是Payroll deduction，还需要网上ACH transfer。
SEP的意思是：simplified employee pension，并不一定是self-employed才可以开的，很多小公司的雇员就只有SEP的。
SEP-IRA确实可以接受personal checks，你可以去Fidelity或者Vanguard试试开个SEP-IRA，以employer的名义开。（但是一定要知会你家LG公司的老板），然后overnight把支票寄去，Fidelity或者Vanguard接受肯定没问题。（因为他们不知道你是W2工资的，不是真的self-employed）
真是万一的万一，IRS过来audit，说你们不符合条件，应该payroll deduct，而不是你们自己存，最坏的情况就是你们把这钱拿回来，交税好了。这种情况，罚款都不会，最多就是补交点儿interest。因为确实你们本来符合存SEP的条件的。
Again：我是在说法律的空子，并不是说按照法律你可以这么做的。我赌的是Fidelity或者Vanguard不管，IRS不会真这么追查的。你只要能够显示证据你们存了SEP的，这个基本问题不大。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 21:58:13编辑过]
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 21:19:12编辑过]
打中文慢，懂FINANCE将来可以MAKEMOREMONEY，ENGINEER是我FULLTIME， 只有LOWSIXFIGURE。 我要挣更多钱。
每人情况不一样，我的IRA/Brokage都是股票，我还有外汇，没有CFA的知识会吃亏的。
爱宝宝，抽空讲讲life insurance吧。我正在考虑要不要把去年买的term life转成whole life。。。当时代理跟我说，她们08年的收益不算好，是6%。这笔钱放的时候是税后的钱，取出的时候是要交当年的income tax的。
我跟lg属于不会投资的，高收益是不指望的，但6%的收益的确不高。好处是多一个保险。这样算起来，合算么？
不合算，6%的return太低了，而且whole life非常不flexible。我自己不买life insurance, 更不要说这个whole life insurance，我躲都躲不及呢。
打中文慢，懂FINANCE将来可以MAKEMOREMONEY，ENGINEER是我FULLTIME， 只有LOWSIXFIGURE。 我要挣更多钱。
每人情况不一样，我的IRA/Brokage都是股票，我还有外汇，没有CFA的知识会吃亏的。
拿ENGINEER来说，真算挣的不少了。要是给自己做的话，没必要考CFA，那里面很多知识用不上的，比如ethics啊宏观经济学啊什么的。
拿ENGINEER来说，真算挣的不少了。要是给自己做的话，没必要考CFA，那里面很多知识用不上的，比如ethics啊宏观经济学啊什么的。
我喜欢FINANCE。我倒不指望用CFA挣钱，不过以后老婆自己开的话，可以帮INVESTMENT CLIENTS 作INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT。呵呵。
我喜欢FINANCE。我倒不指望用CFA挣钱，不过以后老婆自己开的话，可以帮INVESTMENT CLIENTS 作INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT。呵呵。
帮其他人挣钱还不如帮自己挣钱呢，my two cents。
一般average mutual fund manager一年也不过才挣几十万，那还是管几个Billion assets。
你去看看CFA的median income就知道了。
打中文慢，懂FINANCE将来可以MAKEMOREMONEY，ENGINEER是我FULLTIME， 只有LOWSIXFIGURE。 我要挣更多钱。
每人情况不一样，我的IRA/Brokage都是股票，我还有外汇，没有CFA的知识会吃亏的。
我也是engineer，没有cfa知识，亏爱宝宝在这边开讲，作了一些正确的决定...
爱宝宝....有空讲讲rental property的收益和loss报税的情形吧....
我不做rental property，对我来说，return太低，而且跟renter打交道太麻烦。
不过我什么时候可以写篇文章来讨论一下这个return和收益问题。
帮其他人挣钱还不如帮自己挣钱呢，my two cents。
一般average mutual fund manager一年也不过才挣几十万，那还是管几个Billion assets。
你去看看CFA的median income就知道了。
我不是换专业，老婆自己开会计师事务所的话会有许多比如管理退休金的CLIENTS。会计不挣钱的，INVESTMENTCLIENTS才挣钱，又很稳定。其实你就帮你那帮朋友做这个就行了，呵呵。
我不是换专业，老婆自己开会计师事务所的话会有许多比如管理退休金的CLIENTS。会计不挣钱的，INVESTMENTCLIENTS才挣钱，又很稳定。其实你就帮你那帮朋友做这个就行了，呵呵。
人家flip properties，一年的return有50%，还需要我做什么啊？
我自己还挣不到50%呢。。。。。
人家flip properties，一年的return有50%，还需要我做什么啊？
我自己还挣不到50%呢。。。。。
估计人家不懂怎么合理避税，更不要说Sep，SIMPLE IRA。呵呵。不过这都是小钱，你肯定也看不上。俺们就图挣个辛苦钱，为人做嫁衣。唉。
估计人家不懂怎么合理避税，更不要说Sep，SIMPLE IRA。呵呵。不过这都是小钱，你肯定也看不上。俺们就图挣个辛苦钱，为人做嫁衣。唉。
对于我的朋友，我都免费提供我的建议的。
朋友的钱我不赚，小钱我也没兴趣赚。
所以他们教我如何flip房子，我教他们如何合理避税，互惠互利。
比如我的一个大牛朋友，听了我的建议，放了4万9的SEP-IRA，还放了5000的non-deductible traditional IRA，转成了ROTH。
帮其他人挣钱还不如帮自己挣钱呢，my two cents。
一般average mutual fund manager一年也不过才挣几十万，那还是管几个Billion assets。
你去看看CFA的median income就知道了。
lifestyle好啊。工作也相对稳定。buy side不就图个life/work balance么。而且cfa median income不是pm median income.
我不做rental property，对我来说，return太低，而且跟renter打交道太麻烦。
不过我什么时候可以写篇文章来讨论一下这个return和收益问题。
先谢谢爱宝宝了.....
对于我的朋友，我都免费提供我的建议的。
朋友的钱我不赚，小钱我也没兴趣赚。
所以他们教我如何flip房子，我教他们如何合理避税，互惠互利。
比如我的一个大牛朋友，听了我的建议，放了4万9的SEP-IRA，还放了5000的non-deductible traditional IRA，转成了ROTH。
flip 房在在湾区太难了....随便一个土地就50万....
lifestyle好啊。工作也相对稳定。buy side不就图个life/work balance么。而且cfa median income不是pm median income.
我说的是MF manager。挣的多的是all-star analyst，hedge fund manager啥啊。当然了，人家挣的多，也是compenstate for the risk。Life is fair。
我说的是MF manager。挣的多的是all-star analyst，hedge fund manager啥啊。当然了，人家挣的多，也是compenstate for the risk。Life is fair。
多数pm就是一年50，60万挣着，朝8玩6的。也不少。不用再有其他收入，6点就回家看孩子去了。HF确实难讲。被人整了的拿不到几个钱。中彩票的一年几千万。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 22:54:52编辑过]
ib遥不可及...完全没兴趣follow discussion
我跟你说：其实吧，开SEP-IRA是非常轻松的事，还真不像SIMPLE IRA，麻烦的要死。SIMPLE-IRA唯一往里面放钱的办法就是Payroll deduction，还需要网上ACH transfer。
SEP的意思是：simplified employee pension，并不一定是self-employed才可以开的，很多小公司的雇员就只有SEP的。
SEP-IRA确实可以接受personal checks，你可以去Fidelity或者Vanguard试试开个SEP-IRA，以employer的名义开。（但是一定要知会你家LG公司的老板），然后overnight把支票寄去，Fidelity或者Vanguard接受肯定没问题。（因为他们不知道你是W2工资的，不是真的self-employed）
真是万一的万一，IRS过来audit，说你们不符合条件，应该payroll deduct，而不是你们自己存，最坏的情况就是你们把这钱拿回来，交税好了。这种情况，罚款都不会，最多就是补交点儿interest。因为确实你们本来符合存SEP的条件的。
Again：我是在说法律的空子，并不是说按照法律你可以这么做的。我赌的是Fidelity或者Vanguard不管，IRS不会真这么追查的。你只要能够显示证据你们存了SEP的，这个基本问题不大。
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/11 21:58:13编辑过]
Thank you, lovemybaby. We'll give this SEP IRA a try, as you said, the worst that could happen is we get audited and fined.
我们家都没买life insurance。
will和trust，我推荐legalzoom.com，一两百刀就直接搞定了。我们家都在那上面做的。
记下来了。。。我一直说要搞这个呢。。。
ROTH一年没有多少啊。我觉得要是我的话，宁可存够了ROTH，然后再攒钱呢。毕竟有工作了之后呢，攒钱起来还是很快的，不在乎那几千一万的。但是ROTH尽可能早一些，最后复利的效果还是很可观的。
嗯，本来周末准备搞这些呢，但是儿子的精力实在是太无穷了，陪了他两天 ，晚上都累得爬不起来了。。。
嗯，本来周末准备搞这些呢，但是儿子的精力实在是太无穷了，陪了他两天 ，晚上都累得爬不起来了。。。
我roth都是先买money market...然後看低点在买funds....
以下是引用understandme在4/9/2010 11:14:00 AM的发言：
家具的水桶们不多，这个潜力还大大的优待开发啊。
hahahahaha...
她确实是大水桶。。。
帮其他人挣钱还不如帮自己挣钱呢，my two cents。
一般average mutual fund manager一年也不过才挣几十万，那还是管几个Billion assets。
你去看看CFA的median income就知道了。
什么时候我也要这么说
hahahahaha...
她确实是大水桶。。。
现在一天看不见她，都想的惶
说我嘛。。。。So ＳＷＥＥＴ啊
彼此彼此哈
还能有谁
班班出来发钱吧，今天回答了N多问题，累死我了。。。
别忘了把昨天和今天的钱一起发了。。
正爬楼呢。。。周末被臭小子折腾的一点精力都没有，越发的佩服mm了
班班出来发钱吧，今天回答了N多问题，累死我了。。。
别忘了把昨天和今天的钱一起发了。。
已经发了。。。接着爬
发钱发钱
妈呀，发重了，这样吧，我那两份钱算周末的。。。
只是我就没有7% bing cash back
人家把GREAT ROOM刷成了苹果绿，很浅的那种，结果还不难看呢。我一般觉得绿色不是太好HANDLE的。
可惜就是VIRTUAL TOUR里面比较清楚，静态照片反而很不好。
我女儿房间和厕所就是一种很淡绿色，挺好看的
不知道叫啥绿
妈呀，发重了，这样吧，我那两份钱算周末的。。。
什么时候我也要这么说
嗨，别误会，我那意思是：管几个B的MF，也就挣几十万而已。
几十万的年薪当然不少了，但是跟管的几个B的assets比，算是配的少的。
与其有这个能力管几个几十个B的话，给自己做，肯定不会差的。
妈呀，发重了，这样吧，我那两份钱算周末的。。。
呵呵，好，来者不拒。
我喜欢FINANCE。我倒不指望用CFA挣钱，不过以后老婆自己开的话，可以帮INVESTMENT CLIENTS 作INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT。呵呵。
做投资需要CFA？ 做得好的哈，还是给自己做吧。
帮其他人挣钱还不如帮自己挣钱呢，my two cents。 握手。 爱宝宝不做股票太可惜了。
握手。 爱宝宝不做股票太可惜了。
我不是不做，我有不少MF的，都留在那儿没动呢。
对我来说，炒房比炒股票风险小，所以我不再投钱进去买股票和MF了。好歹炒房是sure money，炒股票的话就很难说了。而且炒股得天天盯着，炒房一周看个两次就够了。
嘿嘿，我也才开始研究。。。不过看他家的101才看了一半，周末又忙别的事情去了。。。
回头咱们交流一下心得，还可以会水楼去贩卖一下。
count me in, please. I need to do it, too
neiman 限时 有一些半价的水晶登....
http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/catalog/templates/P6.jhtml;jsessionid=KWIXAPBXPF40MCQAAJ5RABY?itemId=cat21000740&parentId=cat8900735&view=all&ecid=NMEC41310MiddayDash
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/12 11:50:00编辑过]
做自己的钱，和管理MF，估计还是比较不一样的。
从自己的小本金做起，要做大了，估计也很难啊。
还总怕赔
做自己的钱，和管理MF，估计还是比较不一样的。
从自己的小本金做起，要做大了，估计也很难啊。
我有个非大牛人的朋友，就是炒房，75万的本金，去年一年赚了30多万出来了。这个return够高的吧？
apple to apple比的话，比MF manager得到的回报高多了呀。
neiman 限时 有一些半价的水晶登....
http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/catalog/templates/P6.jhtml;jsessionid=KWIXAPBXPF40MCQAAJ5RABY?itemId=cat21000740&parentId=cat8900735&view=all&ecid=NMEC41310MiddayDash
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/12 11:50:00编辑过]
不挑美貌的打折啊。。。
我们要当trader可能要再重新投胎
我有个非大牛人的朋友，就是炒房，75万的本金，去年一年赚了30多万出来了。这个return够高的吧？
apple to apple比的话，比MF manager得到的回报高多了呀。
个例来比，没什么意思。我知道有炒股/汇的回报高多了。
不到50%，一般般嘛。。。
不过呢，超房子，应该是股市不好的时候，也能有比较好的RETURN？这个股市没法比了。
MF MANAGER是不是出了工资也有分红的啊？加上分红，应该不止几十万了吧？我们这里大点儿的TRADER，估计也0.5-1M了吧。如果年头好，他也做的比较顺的话。
已经很高了，他这50%是可以continue的，股市可没法这么保证盈利的，而且他的风险可比股市小多了。
嘿嘿，我也才开始研究。。。不过看他家的101才看了一半，周末又忙别的事情去了。。。
回头咱们交流一下心得，还可以会水楼去贩卖一下。
hahahahaa...
个例来比，没什么意思。我知道有炒股/汇的回报高多了。
不能这么比，要拿return/Standard devitation of return 也就是sharpe ratio才有意义的。他的风险多低啊。炒外汇的风险多高啊。
我不是不做，我有不少MF的，都留在那儿没动呢。
对我来说，炒房比炒股票风险小，所以我不再投钱进去买股票和MF了。好歹炒房是sure money，炒股票的话就很难说了。而且炒股得天天盯着，炒房一周看个两次就够了。
炒股也可以做长线啊， 税率还低。
炒股也可以做长线啊， 税率还低。
他赚的钱还可以write off呢，IRS又没记录的。炒股赚的钱，IRS都有记录在案的，想逃税都逃不掉。
我roth都是先买money market...然後看低点在买funds....
哦，对了，可以买这个。。。
我向来没有投资运，所以现在需要先买一些非常保守的，然后慢慢研究
话说，我周末又看见一个美貌的房子。。。。不过价格上面比较不值得。
我就是觉得人家照片拍的美，房子布置啊，油漆选色啊，都很值得学习。
挖坑，放片片
打你的PP，背后编排我 。。。。
不过他们的态度真好，打电话过去，立刻就price match....
只是我就没有7% bing cash back
妈呀，哪里，态度这么好呀。。。
个例来比，没什么意思。我知道有炒股/汇的回报高多了。
我们不要比高的...不是亲身经历....都不知道那些人的经历是什麽 我们来讨论那种一般人民怎样赚小钱+省税...
[此贴子已经被作者于2010/4/12 12:04:24编辑过]