Girls I don't know how to express my feeling except by repeating that I'm so moved -- I know I'm not good at expression feelings :-P although I'm good at being ironic :-P Anyway, this is the most memorable "re-union" I had! Hanlin, never feel bad that you enjoyed your life in SH -- we all know it even if you don't say a word :-D -- you are still the same you :-P And I'm still the same me -- I will also enjoy my life -- The more they want to torture me, I more I will live better and enjoy more about life! An update to you all about current situation: Zhu's Mom has started raising this issue to new papers and magazines, and Sina and Sohu reported on the 1st page. I'm pretty sure that she will start to target TV soon. BTW, yesterday the journalist is already calling my parents home (they get the number from Zhu's family) and asked to interview me. My dad rejected, but maybe they will quote my dad's word saying that he rejected to be interviewed etc. Who knows. Now, seriously, I do need your help! Cos I'm prepared either to be exposed by media, or sue them. And I do need your support to clarify something. 1. Zhu's mom told the journalist that I envy her daughter and 挑拨朱和另一个舍友的关系, don't know who though. So I need the official confirmation from wang qi and jin ya that I never 挑拨你们和朱的关系。of cause she can still insist that her daughter said so, but it will be quite weak, cos if sb want to 挑拨, it should be from both sides. 2. Zhu's mom told skyoneline (in page 20 of my statement) that 我造谣说朱社交广泛 while in fact she was not. I need also the official confirmation from you all, and from your own respect, saying that zhu does have broad social activities, and often doesn't particiapte class activities. belle and Hanlin can also, if you still remember, confirm that zhu is always back to dorm very late, i.e., when we had fun in our dorm after 晚自习, she is normally not there. if you still remember that she sometimes don't even come back,can say it, but if you don't remember, just don't say. Wangqi and Ya, for you two piglets, I need the confirm from your side that she was always back very late, up to 12, and sometimes not coming back at all. I know it's very bad to say it, and that's why in the past we never tell something like this. but now her mother is pushing for this and I simply have no choice at all :-( Could you? 3. Her mom also said to skyoneline that the "coffee cup" Bei described was true! So, need you 2 to confirm again :( I'm very sorry that all these statements have to be with your real name. And I do understand the concern... --- if her family is this mad, they may hate you all as well if you said sth for me and again them. So, absolutely fine if you have the concern. and absolutely if you can't do it :-) Anyway, all the best wishes to of the piglets, and piglets' hbs & bf ：） Wei Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:53:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: Re: update To: "Yes No" <[email protected]>, "Fei Gao" <[email protected]>, "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Sorry, niangzi, I will speak in a frank way here, hope you don't mind: As I told xxx yesterday, I am willing to help, for sure. My concern is that you will speak to media first? I am somewhat afraid it will finally develop to a mouth fighting (da3 zui3 zhang4), like on Tianya. If to Gong-an, I have no problem to give my statement; but to media, I suggest you have a more thorough consideration, it may finally be a bigger and wider mess and be no real help for solving the problem. Of course, niangzi, if finally no way but only fighting through media, I will stand out to clarify those point. Best regards, Jin PS: Hanlin's dream is also my dream~~~a very handsome..., but it is just a dream, have to admit :P. Hanlin, I guess you bought many good stuff in Shanghai? How about the foods there? --- Yes No <[email protected]> wrote: > Girls > I don't know how to express my feeling except by > repeating that I'm so moved -- I know I'm not good > at > expression feelings :-P although I'm good at being > ironic :-P > Anyway, this is the most memorable "re-union" I had! > > Hanlin, never feel bad that you enjoyed your life in > SH -- we all know it even if you don't say a word > :-D > -- you are still the same you :-P > And I'm still the same me -- I will also enjoy my > life > -- The more they want to torture me, I more I will > live better and enjoy more about life! > > An update to you all about current situation: > Zhu's Mom has started raising this issue to new > papers > and magazines, and Sina and Sohu reported on the 1st > page. > I'm pretty sure that she will start to target TV > soon. > BTW, yesterday the journalist is already calling my > parents home (they get the number from Zhu's family) > and asked to interview me. My dad rejected, but > maybe > they will quote my dad's word saying that he > rejected > to be interviewed etc. Who knows. > > Now, seriously, I do need your help! Cos I'm > prepared > either to be exposed by media, or sue them. > And I do need your support to clarify something. > > 1. Zhu's mom told the journalist that I envy her > daughter and 挑拨謥E土桓錾嵊训墓叵? don't know > who > though. > So I need the official confirmation from wang qi and > jin ya that I never 挑拨你们和謥E墓叵怠f cause she > can still insist that her daughter said so, but it > will be quite weak, cos if sb want to 挑拨, it > should > be from both sides. > > 2. Zhu's mom told skyoneline (in page 20 of my > statement) that 我詠Eニ抵丒缃还惴?while in fact she > was not. > I need also the official confirmation from you all, > and from your own respect, saying that zhu does have > broad social activities, and often doesn't > particiapte > class activities. > belle and Hanlin can also, if you still remember, > confirm that zhu is always back to dorm very late, > i.e., when we had fun in our dorm after 旺笤习, she > is > normally not there.
> if you still remember that she sometimes don't even > come back,can say it, but if you don't remember, > just > don't say. > > Wangqi and Ya, for you two piglets, I need the > confirm > from your side that she was always back very late, > up > to 12, and sometimes not coming back at all. > > I know it's very bad to say it, and that's why in > the > past we never tell something like this. but now her > mother is pushing for this and I simply have no > choice > at all :-( > > Could you? > > 3. Her mom also said to skyoneline that the "coffee > cup" Bei described was true! > So, need you 2 to confirm again :( > > > I'm very sorry that all these statements have to be > with your real name. > And I do understand the concern... --- if her family > is this mad, they may hate you all as well if you > said > sth for me and again them. > > So, absolutely fine if you have the concern. and > absolutely if you can't do it :-) > > Anyway, all the best wishes to of the piglets, and > piglets' hbs & bf ：） > > Wei > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:21:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: need your help :( To: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Fei Gao" <[email protected]>, "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Girls, I finally find out that now there is no sense to spend further time on internet cos there are sooooooo many virius people there. Our words are already out, normal people will take it, and that’s what we expect. For the mad dogs, just let them bark. My family will follow the internet. If they find out really some critical things and need your help, I will let you know, either wise, no need to pay attention on it. One thing I really need your help urgently is the Tl papers. As I’m busy with the letters to police, not much time. So could you pls help with the papers. ：（ 你们有空帮着看看文献并翻译吗？ 不用全翻！我们感兴趣的只是：有没有可能是一次中毒。 估计很少有2次中毒的case，所以如果是一次中毒的文章，只需要看一下中毒后如果没有及时（2-3个月）治疗的症状，如果提前治疗了的文章就可以仍一边根本不用看了。 如果看到2-3个月没有治疗的case，不论是否支持我们希望的结论，都请把相关时间—症状部分翻译一下，并翻译一下患者的年龄、性别、体质/身体状况等。 金亚帮着查了一堆文献，xxx分发一下，能分头处理一下吗？俺俩忙晕了，还有好多文章要写：（ many thanks! Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:19:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: hanlin, don't get angry ：（ To: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Fei Gao" <[email protected]>, "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
刚在天涯上看见“李含琳”发的帖子"请大家放过薛刚，谢谢！" It says: “这个世界上不会有无缘无故的爱，也不会有无缘无故的恨。他说过什么，做过什么，一定都是有原因的；但是有一点，他不是坏人，我也不是，我们都没有坏心，请大家放过他，放过我们一家。 11年过去了，该消失的早已消失，网络上再声势浩大，也不过是虚拟的东西，为什么还要紧紧咬住不放呢？如果真的有人下毒，这些年来她必定也不好过，为什么一定要掀什么来呢？ 我不知道继续下去会有什么结果。我只想安安静静地做一个普通的人。请大家放过我们吧，谢谢！” He/she first pretent to look like real hanlin, and the next step, I guess, is to say something really bad. here it already started to imply that if I am the murderer, i must have already suffered these years, so let me go. And in the future, all "your" words or words from classmates could be interpretated as they are helping me to escape from the punishment even if i am the murderer, cos I have already suffered a lot. SO MEAN!!! So it's quite clear that there is no sense to spend further time on internet cos there are sooooooo many virius people there. Our words are already out, normal people will take it, and that’s what we expect. For the mad dogs, just let them bark. My family will follow the internet. If they find out really some critical things and need your help, I will let you know, either wise, no need to pay attention on it. Keep carm, keep cool! I actually feel very sorry that it bring you all "famous" :( -- although in the past, i'm always very causious, and prepared that there are some people who are very bad, but it's just always beyond my imagaination how virus could people be ：（ ｓｉｇｈ ：（ Girls！Take care of yourselves!!!
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:36:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: Hanlin couple, need your help To: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>
hanlin & Gang Sorry that I need the help from you urgently for some paper searching and translation :( The purpose is to find out if Zhu ling’s case might be just poisioned one, just like 熊猫累累& 感而后动 mentioned. Jinya was searching a lot of papers, maybe you can search as well from US? Might be different result? What I need is the cases in which the patient was NOT treated in time, better not treated after 1 or 2 or even 3 months,so that we can have a look if the symptoms are similar to Zhu Ling’s case. So just need to very quickly filter the search result and can simple throw the paper away if the patient was treated in time. If you find out the “suitable” case, pls help to translate ONLY how the symptoms developed over time, NO ＮＥＥD to translate how to treat it etc. Pls also include the patients age, sex, general health situation if any, and also the source of this paper. Jin Ya will send you the paper she has already found out that fulfill above “requirement” so that you don’t need to translate again if you find the same docs. Can you help with it during these 2 days? Sorry for the rush ? -- we very much need it for the doc to police. Many thanks in advance! TAKE CARE! Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 04:42:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: About papers To: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, [email protected]
1. I searched on PubMed with keywords "thallium" and "poisoning". 2. In the about 600 papers, I got 3 papers that may be useful (with full text). My filtering condition is: once poisoning; acute or subacute; after exposure to Tl, no appropriate treatment for more than 1 month. I will translate the corresponding parts in these three papers. 3. Since I have no full-text access to some journals, for many papers I could only get their abstracts. I had a look at all the abstracts of papers published after July 1992, and I include in the attachment those that maybe useful (need checking full-text to know), so that if you can access to their full-text files, have a look. 4. To extract the compressed file, save all the four files in the same folder and click the *.part1.ext file. (i am so "luo1 suo1", :P) 5. Naturally everyone has his/her favorite searching strategy for papers, so I do expect hanlin or P2 will find some useful papers other than what I got, that'll be very cool :) Girls, take care!
Hanlin, I just found today on Sina, in Wu Hong fei's blog, she reported Zhu's case, and in the reply, i find somebody pretending to be Xue Gang as well. 回复 网易网友(222.32.112.*): 清华物化2班的的朱令的同学们，你们真的就都是些自私自利见利忘义的小人？就没有一个 象贝志成那样敢于说话吗？这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清 华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是 清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！！！！！清华的同学门，你们还有良心 吗，不做噩梦吗？？？？ 我是物化2班的团支书，我真的不忍心看到有关朱朱的所有东西，这些年来我一直生活在自责于内疚之中，我不知道我该怎么做，其实这件事要真的查出真相一点都不难，国务院督办！我能说的就是当年朱朱第二次中毒孙维被传的时候，院领导和系部召开了一次很秘密的会议，我是唯一一个参加会议的在校学生，也许他们知道通知我开会是个很大的错误，当中讲了一会儿的时候系主任叫我回去了，但我在我所在场的18分钟内，我已经知道内容大概了，我的任务是事件保密和按护全班同学，不准单独核查和不准猜测议论，在会议中提到是孙主席指示的，而且有关方面在为维维准备出国手续，后来我知道是孙浮林。 到这里大家心理也很清楚，这件事如果中央不出面的话，在中国目前这个体制里，朱朱事件只有沉冤！！！光凭一个贝志诚是不够的。 这些年我没有站出来，我有我的苦衷，包括我们2班所有同学。我们经常会收到拿我们自己性命和家人性命以及工作等等相关的威胁！株连九族大家或许只在电视上见过，可这些随时可以发生在我们2班同学身上。 我希望中央能真的重视这个案件，还朱朱一个公道。就是高院和高检都没办法的，只有中央！！！ So you couple are both used :-P Kidding, I think now the situation is really very bad. People are much worse than I thought. But in stead of getting angry, like couple of weeks ago, I feel amused, strange hum? These people are too dirty for me to be angry with them :) So girls, i think we don't need further clarify things on internet, unless something really important pop-up -- I doubt though. Anyway, my family is monitering. So let's live our normal life. If for something I need help, i will shout :-) So basically, the help I needed from you all: 1. Paper related: Ya and Hanlin couple -- "tasks" already sent in another mail :-P 2. the supporting letter I previously sent out -- less urgent than above paper, so take your time :-) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:56:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: Re: To: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, [email protected], "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Dear Hanlin Shocked to hear it!! These days I repeated again and again, telling myself, and xxx, and jinya, that I now really really understand why Chinese had Cultural Revolution! I don't even have your home number! I just got Gang's mobile from Panfeng last night, try to talk to you but didn't get connected. Hanlin, I'm very very sorry and sad to get you involved in this dirty thing, especially that you all did it just to support me :( I don't know what to say... I'm really very very sorry! Things here is also very bad. Somebody claim living in the same building as my parents posted their address and call for people to post sth like da4 zi4 bao4 in & around the building,and also to all the nagbours' mailbox etc. I can't go home now. And have to get prepared to "escape" from my own home as soon as digged out. Here in China there is no law or human right, and the police will do nothing about it, but in US should be different. Would you consult your lawyer how to handle it? Or can you report to police ahead to prevent something bad? BTW, be careful of to all your acquaintance, if bad guys trying to find out your personal info, it's very likely from them, and we don't know whether they leak it out accidentally or on purpose. TAKE CARE TAKE CARE!!! As said, I can't go to my parents home now, so contact my own home before I have to move. 8295-3037, or xxx's mobile at 13501024175. I'm at work and not convenient to talk :(. FYI I only made 2 posts, the 1st one you all know, 2nd is called "Sun Wei de Zai sheng Ming", mainly 3 points: 1. appologize for the "evedropper", we made a mistake, it IS a music cup :( 2.I've already submitted to police and official application, ask them to re-investigate the case. 3. new rumors, I won't explain anymore. I will ask xxx to forward you the whole statement. For other so called statement, like I already hired laywer etc,are all bullshit. I haven't posted anything like those. BTW, pls also send me your home number so that we can talk in emergency. Also, girls, if you have time, download the skypie which xxx recommend, cos it's encrypted, and can also do conference talk. Talk to you all later! TAKE CARE EVERYBODY!
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 18:06:27 -0800 (PST) Hanlin Li <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear piglets, > > I am back in China. It is a lot colder than I > expected, fortunately, indoor temp. is very > comfortable. > > I left from US in a hurry and didn't take your contact > informaiton with me, could all of you please send me > your phone numbers so I can reach you? > > I will start first: > > My home phone # at Anshan is : 0412-673-2565 and I > also have a cell phone @ 136-1080-9319. > > Qizi, > > please send me P4's phone # as well, so Gang can bug > him. :-) > > I am so looking forward to meeting all of you in > Shanghai! > > Talk to you later. > > Hanlin Subject: Re: I am back and need your contact info To: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]> CC: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "sun wei" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]> From: [email protected] View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:14:02 +0800
My mobil phone is 13530655861. I am afraid I can not go to shanghai for reunion because these days our business is very busy. Sorry for this bad news. Merry x-mas and happy new year to all of you in advance.
Dear piglets, I am back in China. It is a lot colder than I expected, fortunately, indoor temp. is very comfortable. I left from US in a hurry and didn't take your contact informaiton with me, could all of you please send me your phone numbers so I can reach you? I will start first: My home phone # at Anshan is : 0412-673-2565 and I also have a cell phone @ 136-1080-9319. Qizi, please send me P4's phone # as well, so Gang can bug him. :-) I am so looking forward to meeting all of you in Shanghai! Talk to you later. Hanlin
所以，我能做的事情，不是追查，没有公安的证据我是不会定罪的，我只想呈现一个事实，大 家在一种悲愤和沉郁之下，我们能够做的微薄之力,就是,即便是不知情,也要说出不知情,也要 说出:我们需要知情. 我有看到过很多你的发言.此事我一直在关注着.我们没有高调介入是因为我们还在不想惊动太 多人。如果你愿意发言...我很愿意.保护你的一切:姓名,住址联络方法.这是一个基本的职业 道德。请你信任我. 《南方周末》记者 Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 19:11:15 -0800 (PST) From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: Will you have time in the next week? To: [email protected], "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Dear piglets I'm pretty bad these days. As you probablly have (or have not) heard about it, People are discussing about the rumor (basically cursing me) on hundreds of websites in China and the rumor is now wide spread all over my friends & colleagues... In such a case, it's very difficult for me to keep silence anymore. So I'm considering clarifying about it. I'm now spending all my "leasure" time drafting the "clarification". I'd like to send for you to help review it before publish, hopefully within a week. Will you have time then? Subject: Re: Will you have time in the next week? To: "Yes No" <[email protected]> CC: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]> From: [email protected] View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:44:17 +0800
Dear Wei, I am really shocked by your e-mail because I haven't noticed it in internet at all. Really sorry for you. Of course I will leave time for you. If you would like to leave Beijing for a while, my home is always open for you. And if there is anything I can do for you, just tell me. Wish you are strong enough and every bad thing is smooth as soon as possible. Take care, baby! Gao
Dear piglets I'm pretty bad these days. As you probablly have (or have not) heard about it, People are discussing about the rumor (basically cursing me) on hundreds of websites in China and the rumor is now wide spread all over my friends & colleagues... In such a case, it's very difficult for me to keep silence anymore. So I'm considering clarifying about it. I'm now spending all my "leasure" time drafting the "clarification". I'd like to send for you to help review it before publish, hopefully within a week. Will you have time then? Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 20:52:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: Re: Will you have time in the next week? To: [email protected], "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>, "sun wei" <[email protected]>
Yeah, I didn't notice either. People can be really mean, disgusting and irresponsible when they can speak anonymously. Niangzi, be strong and take care! Surely I have time. As Belle said, if anything we can help, don't hesitate, we support you at any circumstances. Jin --- [email protected] wrote: > Dear Wei, > > I am really shocked by your e-mail because I haven't > noticed it in internet > at all. Really sorry for you. Of course I will leave > time for you. If you > would like to leave Beijing for a while, my home is > always open for you. > And if there is anything I can do for you, just tell > me. > > Wish you are strong enough and every bad thing is > smooth as soon as > possible. > > Take care, baby! > Gao > > > > > Yes No > > <sunweihere@yahoo > > .com> > To > > [email protected], Hanlin Li > 12/19/2005 11:11 > <[email protected]>, Jin Ya > AM > <[email protected]>, Qi Wang > > <[email protected]> > > cc > > > > Subject > Will you have > time in the next > week? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear piglets > I'm pretty bad these days. As you probablly have (or > have not) heard about it, People are discussing > about > the rumor (basically cursing me) on hundreds of > websites in China and the rumor is now wide spread > all > over my friends & colleagues... > > In such a case, it's very difficult for me to keep > silence anymore. So I'm considering clarifying about > it. > I'm now spending all my "leasure" time drafting the > "clarification". > I'd like to send for you to help review it before > publish, hopefully within a week. > > Will you have time then? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 01:23:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: Re: Will you have time in the next week? To: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, [email protected], "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Thank you all piglets!! Your mails makes me stronger and I will never be knocked down! :) Remember our old saying in dorm that we want to get famous in public? -- Now I'm achieving it. It's still not the worst case yet, but I'm prepared... sooner or later... Anyway, let's see... --- Jin Ya <[email protected]> wrote: > Yeah, I didn't notice either. People can be really > mean, disgusting and irresponsible when they can > speak > anonymously. Niangzi, be strong and take care! > > Surely I have time. As Belle said, if anything we > can > help, don't hesitate, we support you at any > circumstances. > > Jin > > --- [email protected] wrote: > > > Dear Wei, > > > > I am really shocked by your e-mail because I > haven't > > noticed it in internet > > at all. Really sorry for you. Of course I will > leave > > time for you. If you > > would like to leave Beijing for a while, my home > is > > always open for you. > > And if there is anything I can do for you, just > tell > > me. > > > > Wish you are strong enough and every bad thing is > > smooth as soon as > > possible. > > > > Take care, baby! > > Gao > > > > > > > > > > > Yes No > > > > > <sunweihere@yahoo > > > > > .com> > > > To > > > > [email protected], Hanlin Li > > 12/19/2005 11:11 > > <[email protected]>, Jin Ya > > AM > > <[email protected]>, Qi Wang > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > cc > > > > > > > > > > Subject > > Will you > have > > time in the next > > week?
> > Dear piglets > > I'm pretty bad these days. As you probablly have > (or > > have not) heard about it, People are discussing > > about > > the rumor (basically cursing me) on hundreds of > > websites in China and the rumor is now wide spread > > all > > over my friends & colleagues... > > > > In such a case, it's very difficult for me to keep > > silence anymore. So I'm considering clarifying > about > > it. > > I'm now spending all my "leasure" time drafting > the > > "clarification". > > I'd like to send for you to help review it before > > publish, hopefully within a week. > > > > Will you have time then? > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:31:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: can you help review the doc? To: [email protected], "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Dear all Here is my draft doc. If you have time, pls help to review it from an outsider point of view, to see if there are some parts that is not proper or could cause some misunderstanding etc. Any comments welcome! It would be great if you can give the feedback by Friday night so that I can do the modification before publish. Many thanks!attach1_by_sw_20051222.doc
Dear everyone! I'm soooooo moved by all of you! Of cause you all are my BEST friends, lifetime friends (although I removed the "best" friends statement in the doc that I'm currently modifying, changed to "good" -- it might bring negative effect if people want to make story out of it)! I can't express with words but I have to admit that when I read the mail from all of you, I can't control my tears, even now. What a strange creature human being is -- when people are beating, hurting, humiliating you, you are strong and never show sorrow, but when you friends are comming with warm heart and words, you, on the contrary, start to cry. Anyway, no matter what happens, I always repeat to myself, that I am not the poorest person in world and I will never be knocked down. There are too many examples that people sufferied much much more that I do. So what I'm now experiencing is nothing. For example, Zhu Ling's family is more poorer, and they sufferred much much more. Of cause I don't like their way of doing things but it's also understandable to some extent. I'm still making modifications based on some early comment. If I can finish it by tonight, I will send you to review again. Anyway, let's see... Hope it doesn't cause you too much trouble :(
--- Hanlin Li <[email protected]> wrote: > Niangzi, > > I just saw your email this morning and gave a first > read of the document. It is a well written document, > very objective, with lots of facts, which made the > document credible. I believe anyone who is not > biased > would get the right message. I am going to read it > again, being a devil's advocate this time, and get > back to you tonight. > > As a close friend of yours (I assumed), I feel so > ashamed when I read your clarification, I had no > idea > what you have been through. If I were in your shoes, > I > may be collapsed already. I am really proud of you, > after going through all this, you are still a > strong, > optimistic, cheerful girl, still the old Sun Xiaozhu > we know of. I hope you will only grow stronger and > happier from now on, as we (your best friends, I am > speaking for all of the piglets here) will always be > on your side, support you and fight back with you. > > Last but not least, wish you best of luck. I do > believe after the issuance of your document, the > public should get a clearer and more truthful > picture > of the whole thing, and give you back the oridinary > life you've been wishing for. > > If anything I could be help with, don't hesitate to > ask. > > Hanlin > > > --- Yes No <[email protected]> wrote: > > > passward is "thetruth" > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > >
Dear all As said, I'm speechless, so have nothing to say. Here is the new version after consolidating all your precious comment, not 100% yet cos I don't have time :(. Anyway, if you have time tomorrow, pls have a look. I properly need your support after I publish this one, but I don't know exactly how. Let's talk about it a bit later. Merry Xmas!
attach4_by_sw_20051224_v3.doc Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 13:01:14 +0800 (CST) From: "belle gao" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com.cn. Learn more Subject: 回复： new version for review To: "Yes No" <[email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Dear Niangzi,
I have looked through the new version. This edition is more clear in stating reality.
For content, I have no further advices. As I said, even the content is perfect, maybe there are still some captious persons.
I think we will face more fireworks in internet, you must be strong and ready to face them. Once you publish it, tell us the link and also as more as possilbe friends. We also want to support you in situ in internet.
Merry x-mas to you and xxx!
Gao Yes No <[email protected]> 写道： Dear all As said, I'm speechless, so have nothing to say. Here is the new version after consolidating all your precious comment, not 100% yet cos I don't have time :(. Anyway, if you have time tomorrow, pls have a look. I properly need your support after I publish this one, but I don't know exactly how. Let's talk about it a bit later. Merry Xmas! __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL ?Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 23:40:32 -0800 (PST) From: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: Re: to open the 2nd version :( To: "Yes No" <[email protected]>, "Fei Gao" <[email protected]>, "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
I don't know how to express my feeling except by
repeating that I'm so moved -- I know I'm not good at
expression feelings :-P although I'm good at being
ironic :-P
Anyway, this is the most memorable "re-union" I had! Hanlin, never feel bad that you enjoyed your life in
SH -- we all know it even if you don't say a word :-D
-- you are still the same you :-P
And I'm still the same me -- I will also enjoy my life
-- The more they want to torture me, I more I will
live better and enjoy more about life! An update to you all about current situation:
Zhu's Mom has started raising this issue to new papers
and magazines, and Sina and Sohu reported on the 1st
page.
I'm pretty sure that she will start to target TV soon.
BTW, yesterday the journalist is already calling my
parents home (they get the number from Zhu's family)
and asked to interview me. My dad rejected, but maybe
they will quote my dad's word saying that he rejected
to be interviewed etc. Who knows. Now, seriously, I do need your help! Cos I'm prepared
either to be exposed by media, or sue them.
And I do need your support to clarify something. 1. Zhu's mom told the journalist that I envy her
daughter and 挑拨朱和另一个舍友的关系, don't know who
though.
So I need the official confirmation from wang qi and
jin ya that I never 挑拨你们和朱的关系。of cause she
can still insist that her daughter said so, but it
will be quite weak, cos if sb want to 挑拨, it should
be from both sides. 2. Zhu's mom told skyoneline (in page 20 of my
statement) that 我造谣说朱社交广泛 while in fact she
was not.
I need also the official confirmation from you all,
and from your own respect, saying that zhu does have
broad social activities, and often doesn't particiapte
class activities.
belle and Hanlin can also, if you still remember,
confirm that zhu is always back to dorm very late,
i.e., when we had fun in our dorm after 晚自习, she is
normally not there.
if you still remember that she sometimes don't even
come back,can say it, but if you don't remember, just
don't say. Wangqi and Ya, for you two piglets, I need the confirm
from your side that she was always back very late, up
to 12, and sometimes not coming back at all. I know it's very bad to say it, and that's why in the
past we never tell something like this. but now her
mother is pushing for this and I simply have no choice
at all :-( Could you? 3. Her mom also said to skyoneline that the "coffee
cup" Bei described was true!
So, need you 2 to confirm again :(
I'm very sorry that all these statements have to be
with your real name.
And I do understand the concern... --- if her family
is this mad, they may hate you all as well if you said
sth for me and again them. So, absolutely fine if you have the concern. and
absolutely if you can't do it :-) Anyway, all the best wishes to of the piglets, and
piglets' hbs & bf ：） Wei Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:53:11 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
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Subject: Re: update
To: "Yes No" <[email protected]>, "Fei Gao" <[email protected]>, "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Sorry, niangzi, I will speak in a frank way here, hope
you don't mind: As I told xxx yesterday, I am
willing to help, for sure. My concern is that you
will speak to media first? I am somewhat afraid it
will finally develop to a mouth fighting (da3 zui3
zhang4), like on Tianya. If to Gong-an, I have no
problem to give my statement; but to media, I suggest
you have a more thorough consideration, it may finally
be a bigger and wider mess and be no real help for
solving the problem. Of course, niangzi, if finally
no way but only fighting through media, I will stand
out to clarify those point. Best regards, Jin PS: Hanlin's dream is also my dream~~~a very
handsome..., but it is just a dream, have to admit :P.
Hanlin, I guess you bought many good stuff in
Shanghai? How about the foods there?
--- Yes No <[email protected]> wrote: > Girls
> I don't know how to express my feeling except by
> repeating that I'm so moved -- I know I'm not good
> at
> expression feelings :-P although I'm good at being
> ironic :-P
> Anyway, this is the most memorable "re-union" I had!
>
> Hanlin, never feel bad that you enjoyed your life in
> SH -- we all know it even if you don't say a word
> :-D
> -- you are still the same you :-P
> And I'm still the same me -- I will also enjoy my
> life
> -- The more they want to torture me, I more I will
> live better and enjoy more about life!
>
> An update to you all about current situation:
> Zhu's Mom has started raising this issue to new
> papers
> and magazines, and Sina and Sohu reported on the 1st
> page.
> I'm pretty sure that she will start to target TV
> soon.
> BTW, yesterday the journalist is already calling my
> parents home (they get the number from Zhu's family)
> and asked to interview me. My dad rejected, but
> maybe
> they will quote my dad's word saying that he
> rejected
> to be interviewed etc. Who knows.
>
> Now, seriously, I do need your help! Cos I'm
> prepared
> either to be exposed by media, or sue them.
> And I do need your support to clarify something.
>
> 1. Zhu's mom told the journalist that I envy her
> daughter and 挑拨謥E土桓錾嵊训墓叵? don't know
> who
> though.
> So I need the official confirmation from wang qi and
> jin ya that I never 挑拨你们和謥E墓叵怠f cause she
> can still insist that her daughter said so, but it
> will be quite weak, cos if sb want to 挑拨, it
> should
> be from both sides.
>
> 2. Zhu's mom told skyoneline (in page 20 of my
> statement) that 我詠Eニ抵丒缃还惴?while in fact she
> was not.
> I need also the official confirmation from you all,
> and from your own respect, saying that zhu does have
> broad social activities, and often doesn't
> particiapte
> class activities.
> belle and Hanlin can also, if you still remember,
> confirm that zhu is always back to dorm very late,
> i.e., when we had fun in our dorm after 旺笤习, she
> is
> normally not there.
> come back,can say it, but if you don't remember,
> just
> don't say.
>
> Wangqi and Ya, for you two piglets, I need the
> confirm
> from your side that she was always back very late,
> up
> to 12, and sometimes not coming back at all.
>
> I know it's very bad to say it, and that's why in
> the
> past we never tell something like this. but now her
> mother is pushing for this and I simply have no
> choice
> at all :-(
>
> Could you?
>
> 3. Her mom also said to skyoneline that the "coffee
> cup" Bei described was true!
> So, need you 2 to confirm again :(
>
>
> I'm very sorry that all these statements have to be
> with your real name.
> And I do understand the concern... --- if her family
> is this mad, they may hate you all as well if you
> said
> sth for me and again them.
>
> So, absolutely fine if you have the concern. and
> absolutely if you can't do it :-)
>
> Anyway, all the best wishes to of the piglets, and
> piglets' hbs & bf ：）
>
> Wei
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:21:54 -0800 (PST)
From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
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Subject: need your help :(
To: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Fei Gao" <[email protected]>, "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Girls,
I finally find out that now there is no sense to spend
further time on internet cos there are sooooooo many
virius people there. Our words are already out, normal
people will take it, and that’s what we expect. For
the mad dogs, just let them bark. My family will follow the internet. If they find out
really some critical things and need your help, I will
let you know, either wise, no need to pay attention on
it. One thing I really need your help urgently is the Tl
papers. As I’m busy with the letters to police, not
much time. So could you pls help with the papers. ：（
你们有空帮着看看文献并翻译吗？ 不用全翻！我们感兴趣的只是：有没有可能是一次中毒。
估计很少有2次中毒的case，所以如果是一次中毒的文章，只需要看一下中毒后如果没有及时（2-3个月）治疗的症状，如果提前治疗了的文章就可以仍一边根本不用看了。 如果看到2-3个月没有治疗的case，不论是否支持我们希望的结论，都请把相关时间—症状部分翻译一下，并翻译一下患者的年龄、性别、体质/身体状况等。 金亚帮着查了一堆文献，xxx分发一下，能分头处理一下吗？俺俩忙晕了，还有好多文章要写：（ many thanks! Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:19:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
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Subject: hanlin, don't get angry ：（
To: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Fei Gao" <[email protected]>, "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
刚在天涯上看见“李含琳”发的帖子"请大家放过薛刚，谢谢！"
It says: “这个世界上不会有无缘无故的爱，也不会有无缘无故的恨。他说过什么，做过什么，一定都是有原因的；但是有一点，他不是坏人，我也不是，我们都没有坏心，请大家放过他，放过我们一家。
11年过去了，该消失的早已消失，网络上再声势浩大，也不过是虚拟的东西，为什么还要紧紧咬住不放呢？如果真的有人下毒，这些年来她必定也不好过，为什么一定要掀什么来呢？
我不知道继续下去会有什么结果。我只想安安静静地做一个普通的人。请大家放过我们吧，谢谢！” He/she first pretent to look like real hanlin, and the
next step, I guess, is to say something really bad.
here it already started to imply that if I am the
murderer, i must have already suffered these years, so
let me go. And in the future, all "your" words or
words from classmates could be interpretated as they
are helping me to escape from the punishment even if i
am the murderer, cos I have already suffered a lot. SO
MEAN!!! So it's quite clear that there is no sense to spend
further time on internet cos there are sooooooo many
virius people there. Our words are already out, normal
people will take it, and that’s what we expect. For
the mad dogs, just let them bark. My family will follow the internet. If they find out
really some critical things and need your help, I will
let you know, either wise, no need to pay attention on
it. Keep carm, keep cool! I actually feel very sorry that it bring you all
"famous" :( -- although in the past, i'm always very
causious, and prepared that there are some people who
are very bad, but it's just always beyond my
imagaination how virus could people be ：（ ｓｉｇｈ ：（ Girls！Take care of yourselves!!!
From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
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Subject: Hanlin couple, need your help
To: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>
hanlin & Gang
Sorry that I need the help from you urgently for some
paper searching and translation :( The purpose is to find out if Zhu ling’s case might
be just poisioned one, just like 熊猫累累& 感而后动
mentioned. Jinya was searching a lot of papers, maybe you can
search as well from US? Might be different result? What I need is the cases in which the patient was NOT
treated in time, better not treated after 1 or 2 or
even 3 months,so that we can have a look if the
symptoms are similar to Zhu Ling’s case. So just need to very quickly filter the search result
and can simple throw the paper away if the patient was
treated in time. If you find out the “suitable” case, pls help to
translate ONLY how the symptoms developed over time,
NO ＮＥＥD to translate how to treat it etc. Pls also
include the patients age, sex, general health
situation if any, and also the source of this paper. Jin Ya will send you the paper she has already found
out that fulfill above “requirement” so that you
don’t need to translate again if you find the same
docs. Can you help with it during these 2 days? Sorry for
the rush ? -- we very much need it for the doc
to police. Many thanks in advance! TAKE CARE! Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 04:42:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
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Subject: About papers
To: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, [email protected]
1. I searched on PubMed with keywords "thallium" and
"poisoning". 2. In the about 600 papers, I got 3 papers that may be
useful (with full text). My filtering condition is:
once poisoning; acute or subacute; after exposure to
Tl, no appropriate treatment for more than 1 month. I
will translate the corresponding parts in these three
papers. 3. Since I have no full-text access to some journals,
for many papers I could only get their abstracts. I
had a look at all the abstracts of papers published
after July 1992, and I include in the attachment those
that maybe useful (need checking full-text to know),
so that if you can access to their full-text files,
have a look. 4. To extract the compressed file, save all the four
files in the same folder and click the *.part1.ext
file. (i am so "luo1 suo1", :P) 5. Naturally everyone has his/her favorite searching
strategy for papers, so I do expect hanlin or P2 will
find some useful papers other than what I got, that'll
be very cool :) Girls, take care!
attach15_by_jinya.rar
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:06:46 -0800 (PST)
From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
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To: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, [email protected], "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Hanlin,
I just found today on Sina, in Wu Hong fei's blog, she
reported Zhu's case, and in the reply, i find somebody
pretending to be Xue Gang as well. 回复 网易网友(222.32.112.*):
清华物化2班的的朱令的同学们，你们真的就都是些自私自利见利忘义的小人？就没有一个
象贝志成那样敢于说话吗？这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清
华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是
清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！这是清华的悲哀！！！！！清华的同学门，你们还有良心
吗，不做噩梦吗？？？？ 我是物化2班的团支书，我真的不忍心看到有关朱朱的所有东西，这些年来我一直生活在自责于内疚之中，我不知道我该怎么做，其实这件事要真的查出真相一点都不难，国务院督办！我能说的就是当年朱朱第二次中毒孙维被传的时候，院领导和系部召开了一次很秘密的会议，我是唯一一个参加会议的在校学生，也许他们知道通知我开会是个很大的错误，当中讲了一会儿的时候系主任叫我回去了，但我在我所在场的18分钟内，我已经知道内容大概了，我的任务是事件保密和按护全班同学，不准单独核查和不准猜测议论，在会议中提到是孙主席指示的，而且有关方面在为维维准备出国手续，后来我知道是孙浮林。
到这里大家心理也很清楚，这件事如果中央不出面的话，在中国目前这个体制里，朱朱事件只有沉冤！！！光凭一个贝志诚是不够的。 这些年我没有站出来，我有我的苦衷，包括我们2班所有同学。我们经常会收到拿我们自己性命和家人性命以及工作等等相关的威胁！株连九族大家或许只在电视上见过，可这些随时可以发生在我们2班同学身上。 我希望中央能真的重视这个案件，还朱朱一个公道。就是高院和高检都没办法的，只有中央！！！
So you couple are both used :-P Kidding, I think now the situation is really very bad.
People are much worse than I thought. But in stead of
getting angry, like couple of weeks ago, I feel
amused, strange hum? These people are too dirty for me
to be angry with them :) So girls, i think we don't need further clarify things
on internet, unless something really important pop-up
-- I doubt though. Anyway, my family is monitering.
So let's live our normal life.
If for something I need help, i will shout :-) So basically, the help I needed from you all:
1. Paper related: Ya and Hanlin couple -- "tasks"
already sent in another mail :-P 2. the supporting letter I previously sent out -- less
urgent than above paper, so take your time :-) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:56:08 -0800 (PST)
From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
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Subject: Re:
To: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, [email protected], "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Dear Hanlin
Shocked to hear it!! These days I repeated again and
again, telling myself, and xxx, and jinya, that I now
really really understand why Chinese had Cultural
Revolution! I don't even have your home number! I just got Gang's
mobile from Panfeng last night, try to talk to you but
didn't get connected. Hanlin,
I'm very very sorry and sad to get you involved in
this dirty thing, especially that you all did it just
to support me :( I don't know what to say... I'm really very very
sorry!
Things here is also very bad. Somebody claim living in
the same building as my parents posted their address
and call for people to post sth like da4 zi4 bao4 in &
around the building,and also to all the nagbours'
mailbox etc. I can't go home now. And have to get
prepared to "escape" from my own home as soon as
digged out. Here in China there is no law or human right, and the
police will do nothing about it, but in US should be
different. Would you consult your lawyer how to handle
it? Or can you report to police ahead to prevent
something bad? BTW, be careful of to all your acquaintance, if bad
guys trying to find out your personal info, it's very
likely from them, and we don't know whether they leak
it out accidentally or on purpose. TAKE CARE TAKE CARE!!! As said, I can't go to my parents home now, so contact
my own home before I have to move. 8295-3037, or xxx's
mobile at 13501024175. I'm at work and not convenient
to talk :(. FYI I only made 2 posts, the 1st one you all know, 2nd
is called "Sun Wei de Zai sheng Ming", mainly 3
points: 1. appologize for the "evedropper", we made a
mistake, it IS a music cup :( 2.I've already submitted
to police and official application, ask them to
re-investigate the case. 3. new rumors, I won't
explain anymore. I will ask xxx to forward you the whole statement. For other so called statement, like I already hired
laywer etc,are all bullshit. I haven't posted anything
like those. BTW, pls also send me your home number so that we can
talk in emergency. Also, girls, if you have time, download the skypie
which xxx recommend, cos it's encrypted, and can also
do conference talk. Talk to you all later! TAKE CARE EVERYBODY!
Subject: Re: I am back and need your contact info
To: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, [email protected], "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "sun wei" <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:35:20 +0800
so glad to hear from u from shanghai. my cell: 13600072567
PF: 13570066776
contact u later, see u.
Hanlin Li <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dear piglets,
>
> I am back in China. It is a lot colder than I
> expected, fortunately, indoor temp. is very
> comfortable.
>
> I left from US in a hurry and didn't take your contact
> informaiton with me, could all of you please send me
> your phone numbers so I can reach you?
>
> I will start first:
>
> My home phone # at Anshan is : 0412-673-2565 and I
> also have a cell phone @ 136-1080-9319.
>
> Qizi,
>
> please send me P4's phone # as well, so Gang can bug
> him. :-)
>
> I am so looking forward to meeting all of you in
> Shanghai!
>
> Talk to you later.
>
> Hanlin
Subject: Re: I am back and need your contact info
To: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>
CC: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "sun wei" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:14:02 +0800
My mobil phone is 13530655861. I am afraid I can not go to shanghai for
reunion because these days our business is very busy. Sorry for this
bad
news. Merry x-mas and happy new year to all of you in advance.
Hanlin Li
<[email protected]>
To
12/11/2005 10:06 [email protected], Jin Ya
AM <[email protected]>, sun wei
<[email protected]>, Qi Wang
<[email protected]>
cc
Subject
I am back and need your contact
info
Dear piglets, I am back in China. It is a lot colder than I
expected, fortunately, indoor temp. is very
comfortable. I left from US in a hurry and didn't take your contact
informaiton with me, could all of you please send me
your phone numbers so I can reach you? I will start first: My home phone # at Anshan is : 0412-673-2565 and I
also have a cell phone @ 136-1080-9319. Qizi, please send me P4's phone # as well, so Gang can bug
him. :-) I am so looking forward to meeting all of you in
Shanghai! Talk to you later. Hanlin
To: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:05:50 +0800
Subject: 来自清华
李含琳：
你好!你好!
无论是清华环境系校友的身份还是《南方周末》记者的名义，我都有足够的情感和理性在今天
继续关注朱令
“铊中毒”事件。这一事件十年前就引起轩然大波，十年后仍未定案，不仅朱
令同学本人深受其害，她的家人也一直处于孤独的痛苦当中，而且也给那些关心过朱令帮助过
朱令的朋友们留下了诸多不解和疑团。
我努力去找过化学系的老师和物化2班的同学。但是我还不敢惊动大部分人。包括一些退休的
老师.我了解的情况是:大家已经很尽力。而当时一些媒体的不当报道,却可能伤害了大家的感
情。大家一方面同情朱令，一方面又想保护同学.作为清华的学生，我不相信我的同学是冷漠
的，相反，我认为这里面，肯定存在着一些相互的误解和微妙的抵触.而这些究竟是什么?什么
造成了这种不信任?是不是怕伤害到了无辜?我也看到了有些同学，为孙维辩护.我完全理解:因
为我们不会傻到先定一个人有罪,再去寻找他的过失.这是无论如何一个有智商的人，都不会这
么做的。因为要公正,我相信你们也是这么想的。
昨天我甚至见到了和朱令一起演出的艺术团的一个校园歌手.也许大家都知道他。他现在已经
几乎很成名了，踌躇满志,要回清华开咖啡馆,在北院.当时我心里很难过，我听到一个98级化
学系的孩子说，年年提这个事情，年年没有结果.我听了更是伤感。
我去拜访过朱令父母。他们还在不停信访.朱母曾经因去年摔倒而开了脑颅.她感到自己老了，
家里也没有其他人了。没有人可以照顾朱令.她想的是,怎么办?如果她去了，她说,就让朱令也
和我一起去吧.
我当时,真是无话可说了。
他们并没有努力申诉自己的冤屈,我感到的不是他们的委屈和仇恨，而是对生命的尊重.是一种
意志力.活下去的意志.那时候,我甚至不敢问:你们恨不恨凶手.我不敢问。
而我做这个事情，只是希望。还能够从媒体角度,促使公安部门追查嫌疑人,让大家都有一个清
白的说法. 我和一个关注这个事情的朋友聊天，她说:“旧事重提，肯定会伤害到一些人的感情。可我认
为，面对承受了人生的残忍和不公的朱令，面对承受了这么大痛苦的朱家父母，作为健康、自
由、相对幸福生活着的人，如果只是因为怕伤害到自己和周围人的感情或者影响自己和周围人
的生活而永远选择沉默，使真相在时光中消逝，那么，未免太不公平。因为真相虽然是痛苦可
能甚至会触目惊心，但真相还是很重要的。因为我一直坚持，社会的正义和良心比个人平静温
暖的内心舒适似乎更为重要。”
我希望通过自己实实在在的努力为她做些什么。作为《南方周末》的一名职业记者，我深知，
虽然媒体是本着维护正义，保护弱者的立场进行追踪和关注，但我们并不能干预办案或是有罪
推论，我们能够做的和最终力图做到的，只是抛开外界纷杂不一的说法，如实记录朱令的同学
、家人，也就是所有了解她关心她愿意帮帮她的朋友们真实的声音。
我承认，我是一个多事者,
虽然我也曾在清华园度过了九年光阴.实际上我根本不必要关心
社会新闻，我的志向不在这里。但是等我见到朱的父母时,我就知道我必须追问下去,即便是没
有结果，即便是…因为没有做好而丢失了一个记者应有的职业口碑.我很希望自己能给朱令的
父母一些实际的帮助，也希望你们不要有太多的顾虑,信任我支持我。谋事在人，成事在天。
我相信苍天在上,我失败一次，以后还会有人追问的。但我依然相信你们，我的同学们,我相信
天下人的心是善良的，我也相信,我能够公正地呈现这个当年的事实.
谢谢你们。
所以，我能做的事情，不是追查，没有公安的证据我是不会定罪的，我只想呈现一个事实，大
家在一种悲愤和沉郁之下，我们能够做的微薄之力,就是,即便是不知情,也要说出不知情,也要
说出:我们需要知情.
我有看到过很多你的发言.此事我一直在关注着.我们没有高调介入是因为我们还在不想惊动太
多人。如果你愿意发言...我很愿意.保护你的一切:姓名,住址联络方法.这是一个基本的职业
道德。请你信任我.
《南方周末》记者 Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 19:11:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
Subject: Will you have time in the next week?
To: [email protected], "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Dear piglets
I'm pretty bad these days. As you probablly have (or
have not) heard about it, People are discussing about
the rumor (basically cursing me) on hundreds of
websites in China and the rumor is now wide spread all
over my friends & colleagues... In such a case, it's very difficult for me to keep
silence anymore. So I'm considering clarifying about
it.
I'm now spending all my "leasure" time drafting the
"clarification".
I'd like to send for you to help review it before
publish, hopefully within a week. Will you have time then? Subject: Re: Will you have time in the next week?
To: "Yes No" <[email protected]>
CC: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:44:17 +0800
Dear Wei, I am really shocked by your e-mail because I haven't noticed it in
internet
at all. Really sorry for you. Of course I will leave time for you. If
you
would like to leave Beijing for a while, my home is always open for
you.
And if there is anything I can do for you, just tell me. Wish you are strong enough and every bad thing is smooth as soon as
possible. Take care, baby!
Gao
Yes No
<sunweihere@yahoo
.com>
To
[email protected], Hanlin
Li
12/19/2005 11:11 <[email protected]>, Jin Ya
AM <[email protected]>, Qi Wang
<[email protected]>
cc
Subject
Will you have time in the next
week?
Dear piglets
I'm pretty bad these days. As you probablly have (or
have not) heard about it, People are discussing about
the rumor (basically cursing me) on hundreds of
websites in China and the rumor is now wide spread all
over my friends & colleagues... In such a case, it's very difficult for me to keep
silence anymore. So I'm considering clarifying about
it.
I'm now spending all my "leasure" time drafting the
"clarification".
I'd like to send for you to help review it before
publish, hopefully within a week. Will you have time then? Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 20:52:03 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
Subject: Re: Will you have time in the next week?
To: [email protected], "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>, "sun wei" <[email protected]>
Yeah, I didn't notice either. People can be really
mean, disgusting and irresponsible when they can speak
anonymously. Niangzi, be strong and take care! Surely I have time. As Belle said, if anything we can
help, don't hesitate, we support you at any
circumstances. Jin --- [email protected] wrote: > Dear Wei,
>
> I am really shocked by your e-mail because I haven't
> noticed it in internet
> at all. Really sorry for you. Of course I will leave
> time for you. If you
> would like to leave Beijing for a while, my home is
> always open for you.
> And if there is anything I can do for you, just tell
> me.
>
> Wish you are strong enough and every bad thing is
> smooth as soon as
> possible.
>
> Take care, baby!
> Gao
>
>
>
>
> Yes No
>
> <sunweihere@yahoo
>
> .com>
> To
>
> [email protected], Hanlin Li
> 12/19/2005 11:11
> <[email protected]>, Jin Ya
> AM
> <[email protected]>, Qi Wang
>
> <[email protected]>
>
> cc
>
>
>
> Subject
> Will you have
> time in the next
> week?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear piglets
> I'm pretty bad these days. As you probablly have (or
> have not) heard about it, People are discussing
> about
> the rumor (basically cursing me) on hundreds of
> websites in China and the rumor is now wide spread
> all
> over my friends & colleagues...
>
> In such a case, it's very difficult for me to keep
> silence anymore. So I'm considering clarifying about
> it.
> I'm now spending all my "leasure" time drafting the
> "clarification".
> I'd like to send for you to help review it before
> publish, hopefully within a week.
>
> Will you have time then?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 01:23:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
Subject: Re: Will you have time in the next week?
To: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, [email protected], "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Thank you all piglets!!
Your mails makes me stronger and I will never be
knocked down! :) Remember our old saying in dorm that we want to get
famous in public? -- Now I'm achieving it. It's still not the worst case yet, but I'm prepared...
sooner or later... Anyway, let's see... --- Jin Ya <[email protected]> wrote: > Yeah, I didn't notice either. People can be really
> mean, disgusting and irresponsible when they can
> speak
> anonymously. Niangzi, be strong and take care!
>
> Surely I have time. As Belle said, if anything we
> can
> help, don't hesitate, we support you at any
> circumstances.
>
> Jin
>
> --- [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Dear Wei,
> >
> > I am really shocked by your e-mail because I
> haven't
> > noticed it in internet
> > at all. Really sorry for you. Of course I will
> leave
> > time for you. If you
> > would like to leave Beijing for a while, my home
> is
> > always open for you.
> > And if there is anything I can do for you, just
> tell
> > me.
> >
> > Wish you are strong enough and every bad thing is
> > smooth as soon as
> > possible.
> >
> > Take care, baby!
> > Gao
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> > Yes No
>
> >
> > <sunweihere@yahoo
>
> >
> > .com>
>
> > To
> >
> > [email protected], Hanlin Li
> > 12/19/2005 11:11
> > <[email protected]>, Jin Ya
> > AM
> > <[email protected]>, Qi Wang
> >
> > <[email protected]>
> >
>
> > cc
> >
>
> >
> >
>
> > Subject
> > Will you
> have
> > time in the next
> > week?
> > I'm pretty bad these days. As you probablly have
> (or
> > have not) heard about it, People are discussing
> > about
> > the rumor (basically cursing me) on hundreds of
> > websites in China and the rumor is now wide spread
> > all
> > over my friends & colleagues...
> >
> > In such a case, it's very difficult for me to keep
> > silence anymore. So I'm considering clarifying
> about
> > it.
> > I'm now spending all my "leasure" time drafting
> the
> > "clarification".
> > I'd like to send for you to help review it before
> > publish, hopefully within a week.
> >
> > Will you have time then?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:31:45 -0800 (PST)
From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
Subject: can you help review the doc?
To: [email protected], "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Dear all
Here is my draft doc. If you have time, pls help to
review it from an outsider point of view, to see if
there are some parts that is not proper
or could cause some misunderstanding etc. Any comments welcome! It would be great if you can give the feedback by
Friday night so that I can do the modification before
publish. Many thanks!attach1_by_sw_20051222.doc
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 02:25:43 -0800 (PST)
From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
Subject: So Moved!
To: "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, [email protected], "Jin Ya" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
Dear everyone!
I'm soooooo moved by all of you! Of cause you all are
my BEST friends, lifetime friends (although I removed
the "best" friends statement in the doc that I'm
currently modifying, changed to "good" -- it might
bring negative effect if people want to make story out
of it)! I can't express with words but I have to admit that
when I read the mail from all of you, I can't control
my tears, even now. What a strange creature human
being is -- when people are beating, hurting,
humiliating you, you are strong and never show sorrow,
but when you friends are comming with warm heart and
words, you, on the contrary, start to cry. Anyway, no matter what happens, I always repeat to
myself, that I am not the poorest person in world and
I will never be knocked down. There are too many
examples that people sufferied much much more that I
do. So what I'm now experiencing is nothing. For
example, Zhu Ling's family is more poorer, and they
sufferred much much more. Of cause I don't like their
way of doing things but it's also understandable to
some extent. I'm still making modifications based on some early
comment. If I can finish it by tonight, I will send
you to review again. Anyway, let's see... Hope it doesn't cause you too
much trouble :(
>
> I just saw your email this morning and gave a first
> read of the document. It is a well written document,
> very objective, with lots of facts, which made the
> document credible. I believe anyone who is not
> biased
> would get the right message. I am going to read it
> again, being a devil's advocate this time, and get
> back to you tonight.
>
> As a close friend of yours (I assumed), I feel so
> ashamed when I read your clarification, I had no
> idea
> what you have been through. If I were in your shoes,
> I
> may be collapsed already. I am really proud of you,
> after going through all this, you are still a
> strong,
> optimistic, cheerful girl, still the old Sun Xiaozhu
> we know of. I hope you will only grow stronger and
> happier from now on, as we (your best friends, I am
> speaking for all of the piglets here) will always be
> on your side, support you and fight back with you.
>
> Last but not least, wish you best of luck. I do
> believe after the issuance of your document, the
> public should get a clearer and more truthful
> picture
> of the whole thing, and give you back the oridinary
> life you've been wishing for.
>
> If anything I could be help with, don't hesitate to
> ask.
>
> Hanlin
>
>
> --- Yes No <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > passward is "thetruth"
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
From: "belle gao" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com.cn. Learn more
Subject: reply from gaofei
To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Dear niangzi,
refer to the attachment.
take care.
Gao
attach2_by_gaofei_reply.doc
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 23:14:53 +0800 (CST)
From: "belle gao" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: reply from gaofei
To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Dear niangzi,
refer to the attachment.
take care.
Gao
attach3_by_gaofei_reply.doc
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 08:35:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "Yes No" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
Subject: new version for review
To: "belle gao" <[email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Dear all
As said, I'm speechless, so have nothing to say. Here is the new version after consolidating all your
precious comment, not 100% yet cos I don't have time
:(. Anyway, if you have time tomorrow, pls have a look. I properly need your support after I publish this one,
but I don't know exactly how. Let's talk about it a
bit later. Merry Xmas!
attach4_by_sw_20051224_v3.doc
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 13:01:14 +0800 (CST)
From: "belle gao" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com.cn. Learn more
Subject: 回复： new version for review
To: "Yes No" <[email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Dear Niangzi,
I have looked through the new version. This edition is more clear in stating reality.
For content, I have no further advices. As I said, even the content is perfect, maybe there are still some captious persons.
I think we will face more fireworks in internet, you must be strong and ready to face them. Once you publish it, tell us the link and also as more as possilbe friends. We also want to support you in situ in internet.
Merry x-mas to you and xxx!
Gao Yes No <[email protected]> 写道：
Dear all
As said, I'm speechless, so have nothing to say. Here is the new version after consolidating all your
precious comment, not 100% yet cos I don't have time
:(. Anyway, if you have time tomorrow, pls have a look. I properly need your support after I publish this one,
but I don't know exactly how. Let's talk about it a
bit later. Merry Xmas! __________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL ?Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 23:40:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jin Ya" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
Subject: Re: to open the 2nd version :(
To: "Yes No" <[email protected]>, "Fei Gao" <[email protected]>, "Hanlin Li" <[email protected]>, "Qi Wang" <[email protected]>
娘子， 我看过第二版了，再提出几点意见，还是权作参考。 1。“...朱令也是校社团的积极分子。社团和团委的骨干成员有单独的宿舍楼，不分院系、年级，既没有熄灯和用电限制也不锁楼门，是大家聚会、活动的中心。朱令经常回宿舍很晚。她第一次中毒后返校期间仍然每天中午去社团或团委煎药，据她自己说也有时是别人提前帮她煎好了的。”这一段如果写得再圆滑一点就好了，象加个“举个例子来说”，“比如说”这样的词句。如果我是不知情的人，很可能会觉得你在暗示这个情况和中毒有密切关系，如果不是你的本意的话，可能会有一些反面作用。看你的考虑。 2。你爷爷那一段，我觉得挺好的。不过能不能稍微表达一下你爷爷出身贫寒，自己奋斗成材的意思，反正就是别让人觉得你们家是那种大的“世家”，有很多人罩着的那种。 3。“前不久的ｘｘｘ杀妻案为什么会被判刑？就是因为“死者”家属有怀疑，而且又找到了一具女尸，看似证据确凿，而ｘｘｘ又拿不出证据证明自己无罪。其实这也是许多未破案件时一些被怀疑人遇到的共同问题。”看到这一段我是想到了你说的应该是"Simpson"的案子，但我的印象不深， google以后才了解了详情和最后判决，但其他人会不会也能立刻想到？不过也许国内新闻曾广泛报道过？另外，我google后的感觉是这个案子实在太复杂了，所以好多人好像还是对Simpson到底杀妻没有心存疑虑。再让你家里人帮你参谋参谋，别起到了反作用。 我觉得你写得挺好的，这些意见都是我尽量站在不知情人的角度上吹毛求疵的结果:)。我和其他小猪的担心一样，写得再好，也会有人故意或不故意地曲解。而且这两天我在想，如果是朱家刻意地散布这些谣言，可能就是为了把你逼出来，现在也算达到了目的了,sigh。不过也没法再躲了。但你一定要做好心理准备，要我们帮忙的尽管说，另外怎么发表，从什么渠道，多少网站开始，还有对可能发生情况的应对（来自朱家，公安什么的），也要做好准备。虽然我知道你家里人和xxx肯定已经帮你想到了，还是忍不住多个嘴:P. 好了，正经事说完了，祝各个小猪圣诞快乐，新年好！
首先声明一下， 我是孙维同班同学， 因为这个事件的敏感性， 本人不便公布身份，我本来决定保持沉默。 但是看到网上这么多讨论， 就忍不住出来说几句。
首先， 我对此事了解不多， 包括孙维是嫌疑人， 也是大学毕业后才慢慢知道的。
其次， 我想说的是， 我们班同学关系的确很差， 很多人毕业后根本不愿意和同班同学联系。 有的人干脆不和任何人联系。
再次， 我们班的荣誉的确是某些人的个人荣誉。 除了少数人之外， 我们班绝大多数人不以这个班为荣。
最后， 站出来支持孙维 的七位同学中， 其中有两位是不知情的善良同学， 不愿意相信自己的同学如此。。。 其他的我想大概都是知情者。他们应该很明白他们在说什么。 只是有一部分人在支持孙维， 不要以为我们班都在支持她， 要知道我们班有31人， 为什么大多数人选择了沉默？
总结： 以本人对我们班的了解， 我认为孙维极有可能是投毒者。 而且支持孙维的几个人(不包括其中两人)都是和朱令关系极差， 和孙维关系很好的。
恕我大胆猜测： 为什么大家没有想到过集体行动的可能呢？ 为什么有的人立场就那么坚定呢？ 为什么口气那么一致呢？ 大家不觉得奇怪吗？
向贝志诚先生致敬。 不明白为什么有人刻意抹黑这位执着的追凶者。
最后在说两句， 以我对孙维的了解， 如果没有有力证据的话﹐我不认为 她会平白无故接受不发毕业证书， 不发护照的待遇。换了任何人都会斗争到底的，更不用说她的特殊背景了， 她选择了十年沉默， 这又说明了什么？
我认为是公安的无能造成现在这样的局面
当然能。因为这个案子在公安局，还算是在侦破中的案件，未结案。
始终有效。跟那些已经过了诉讼时效或者追索时效的案子不一样。
什么时候都有效。
这也算是公安局留的后手吧。毕竟哪个警察也不希望自己辛苦那么长时间破了的案子被
人黑了。他们也窝囊啊。
当年，为了确定朱令体内的铊来自清华李隆弟和童爱军的实验室，警方费了多大的力气
啊。他们走遍了北京所有使用铊的单位，最后又转战外地，最终在石家庄找到了清华购
买铊的证据。最后，又根据化验结果，证明了朱令所中的毒就来自那批铊，就来自那个
实验室。所以，确定一个犯罪嫌疑人，不是那么容易的事。需要大量的实物证据和科学
数据，否则，警方无法向检察院提交证据，无法要求对某人采取强制措施的。
但是，虽然证据确凿，可公安局也是人组成的啊，他们这些人也是在国家体系之下啊，
他们不是独立办案的，他们也被人管，被人制约啊。所以，他们的冤啊，欲哭无泪的感
觉啊……
尤其被大家误会，以为他们无能，就感是比窦娥还冤啊。
作者： zenyup 2007-1-24 14:53 回复此发言
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-27 15:47:52编辑过]
一点愧疚都没有. 她的声明我看到过,一开头就说,'朱令一家两个女儿一死一残'. 完全是幸灾乐祸的语气. 后来被网友质疑,
这句话就被她删了.
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-26 15:38:33编辑过]
学校不给开证明什么的，怎么抗争？中国的官僚你斗的过吗？说孙家有什么大背景，这样的在北京就是一大片之类的。政协副主席，说实话，政协有用吗？政协不是有实权的机构。
然后贝这样说她，她就应该反驳？把你放在这个位置，是到底纠缠下去还是好好过不被打搅的生活？这样出来一个人说她，她就反驳一次；下次再出来一个，她是不是还要继续反驳？她还过不过日子。把自己换位思考一下，摆脱不要那么不理智。说这我都想骂人了。我最讨厌人云亦云的事情。
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-27 15:48:59编辑过]
好多人还是没有理性地看问题啊，凭什么说就是sw做的？
学校不给开证明什么的，怎么抗争？中国的官僚你斗的过吗？说孙家有什么大背景，这样的在北京就是一大片之类的。政协副主席，说实话，政协有用吗？政协不是有实权的机构。
然后贝这样说她，她就应该反驳？把你放在这个位置，是到底纠缠下去还是好好过不被打搅的生活？这样出来一个人说她，她就反驳一次；下次再出来一个，她是不是还要继续反驳？她还过不过日子。把自己换位思考一下，摆脱不要那么不理智。说这我都想骂人了。我最讨厌人云亦云的事情。
明白人，讲的好！
只是有些时候有点鲁迅当年的感觉，想哭，真的，想哭
sw歹毒地令人发指. 就假设投毒的时候没有预计到会害朱令这么惨. 十几年后, 看朱令过怎样生不如死的生活.
一点愧疚都没有. 她的声明我看到过,一开头就说,'朱令一家两个女儿一死一残'. 完全是幸灾乐祸的语气. 后来被网友质疑,
这句话就被她删了.
我觉得你这么说话太不负责任了，你已经认为是SW干的了，所以觉得她怎么“一点愧疚都没有”。可是，要是万一不是她干的呢？她干吗要愧疚呢？ 还有，我不知道你是怎么从一个声明的第一句话中看出别人的语气的，说话有语气，一段文章中可以看出语气，但是从别人列出的一个事实中也看出语气，完全是因为你已经认为SW是凶手了，带着偏见看的。SW这句话说得不地道，但是是事实。
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-26 19:52:52编辑过]
我个人的看法是基于自己对各种事情的判断。目前孙释颜脱离不了嫌疑。我也坚持我的看法一年多（早些日子的讨论，偶压根没当会事情）， 一年后还是同样的看法。 所以不同意有人说怀疑孙就是人云亦云。 发生在孙身边的 单独的每件事情（ 拒绝和令家沟通， 拒绝看望同窗好友朱令。。 组织辩护， 阻止同学提供信息，宿舍盗窃案。。。）可能都能找到一个理由， 但是串连起来， 找一个共同的reasonable 的理由来解释她的行为， 还真是比较牵强。 这些都算是什么证据啊？！真是莫名其妙！
同学， 我说证据这个词了嘛？ 也许这个词就是关键？ 没有证据，有自己认为合理的怀疑，是不是就可以公开指责？还是一定要有证据，才可以公开指责?
我也觉得有些困扰， 不过参考美国的案子来看，孙是公众人物。
另外在这件事情上，我认为我坚持看法，其他也是置之度外的。 ??????????????????????
孙他爸爸或者妈妈是干什么的？？？？？？？？？ 非常普通的知识分子，妈妈是医生，爸爸也是搞技术的，不是什么有权人！
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-26 20:25:00编辑过]
非常普通的知识分子，妈妈是医生，不是什么有权人！ 那他爷爷都死了，贝也是高干子弟出身， 然后还有那个都能阻止孙出国的势力。。。。。那还不能重新立案？？？？？？？？？
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-26 20:27:22编辑过]
我觉得孙也完全可以告诽谤。 如果告了， 先得搞清这个投毒案。 也可以帮助案子发展， 也是可行的。 告谁？？？？？？？？？？ 比如说，就那个爷爷拉着领导人的手。。。。。一告一个赢，问题是告谁？？？？？？？？？？
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-26 20:40:27编辑过]
有几件我觉得特搞笑的“证据”，令很多人坚信SW是凶手，反而让我产生怀疑。 一个就是爷爷拉着**的手，如果真是这样，当时在场的一定没有外人，而如此应该暗中操作的事怎么会流传出来呢？很容易查出是谁说出来的，那他还想不想在官场混了？ 还一个就是公安局长的“打死装麻袋里扔了的”言论，别说北京市公安局长，就是一个城区派出所所长，就这说话水平，看他能当上吗？ 我认为这就是2条编造出来的低级谣言。 不过到很象贝某人一向的风格。
这两条已经证明是假的了，问题是我不明白为什么没人怀疑造谣者的动机（强调一下，木有证据说是贝说的，但一直都是“听贝的公安朋友说”）。 最开始网上轰轰烈烈讨论，就是根据这两条，然后。。。就是去年孙出来澄清，然后就发现根本就是假的。。
关于这两条说是完全谎言， 我还不确定， 可以想的推测是话传话走了音。 如果基于这两条还不能完全确定的话而全盘否定其他， 是不是欠妥呢？ 你搞笑呢吧，这两条可是从2000年左右就在mitbbs上，每隔一阵，跟那什么经似的，讨论一通。。。。。。。 假不假的，人家爷爷就是94 95年死的，孙就是97年才第一次被定为第一嫌疑人的，你倒是说怎么拉手。。。。。。。 行了行了，都跟你说了，网上真的假的谣言太多太多了。。。。。。。。 所以说，大家就骂凶手明天就被车撞死就可以了。。。。。。。
非常普通的知识分子，妈妈是医生，爸爸也是搞技术的，不是什么有权人！
就是现在，她的叔叔（伯父）可不是普通人
2，投毒事发后捏造谣言，传朱令爸爸走私铊，此谣言被贝拆穿。
3，“窃听器”谣言，此谣言实在不高明，特意发表第二个声明自己揭穿。
4，谣言贝当年是朱的追求者，追求失败恼羞成怒投毒置朱于死地。
5，谣言贝“网上追凶第一人”，指出当年负责翻译邮件的另有其人，贝则是沽名钓誉。后贝在访问中表现极为低调，谣言不揭自穿。
6，谣言“政治谋杀”，传一“职业杀手”涉身京城政治谋杀，朱家两姐妹是行动目标。
7，宿舍关系很好。宿舍关系好不好，从金亚王琦还有Lulu系列的发言就可以看出来了，那个11年之后仍然恶毒的咒骂朱令为猪头的人，不就是你们中的一个吗？
8，和朱令在舞台上没有竞争关系。薛钢不明智，在这点上配合撒谎，让自己的屁股再也洗不干净了。孙维原来是学中阮，弹奏水平让其他团员“胆战心惊”，朱令开始的确不会，但她天资颖慧，很快就学会了中阮，在表演中取代了孙维的位置，演出非常成功。民乐团成员均可证明这件事，为何孙维要在声明中轻描淡写的撇清？
9，多次和朱家联系。朱令母亲已证实这是彻头彻尾的谎言。
10，已经提请公安14处重审。有人打过电话，证明根本没这回事，这是孙维释放的最后一个臭屁，从此以后就藏匿不见。
11，声明1中口口声声说不再出面解释，暗中却化身无数马甲，搅浑一锅水，其中尤以木虚地最为恶心，忘我失态到在帖中对老公诉起衷肠来了。
12，声称即将离开北京，却被网友查出航班日期均不符。
13. SW在其声明中表示没有动用背景的力量，可是她又知道ZL父母上书国家领导人已事。没有背景，如何得知此事？！
14.孙维自称和朱令关系不错。帮她洗了杯子，放在自己的箱子里。此种行为在女生宿舍只有两种解释：A.杯子洗得有问题，可能是销毁证据。B.看人家杯子好，偷回去自己用。
15.孙维自称帮贝翻译过信件，并给了系里。贝揭穿，当时她们宿舍的女生要去旅游，说没时间翻译。并且即使她真的翻译了，难道没看到其中提到铊中毒吗？如果不是凶手，为什么不去告诉朱家，救治朱令，还搬出什么红斑狼疮？
……………………
其实，孙维的声明中满纸谎言，何止于此？用一位公安内部朋友的话，除了名字和时间是真的，还有哪些是真的？！
而且，凶手一方再辩无罪已无任何意义，事实上，97年孙维已经招了，白纸黑字在公安局档案里存着呢！现在你们再想辩护，就从动机和下毒方法上辩护吧，或者找出孙维目前的身体和精神状态来辩护吧。不要再妄图欺骗全世界，做无谓的挣扎。
我相信，这些声音来自两种人群：一些就是很普通的朋友，他们可能并不知道事情的详细过程，按照我们的司法制度来说，确实，既然司法机关没有给孙维定罪并做出判决，那么从法理上说，我们不得不承认她目前是法律层面上的“无罪”。因此，这些朋友们的宽容和理解也是正常的。还有一些声音，我相信大家也都看的出来，一定是来自孙维本人或者她利害关系中的人（家人、死党等）他们在竭力辩解和开脱，而很明显他们这么做的动机和结果都愚蠢到了极点。可以说，今天的这场大讨论，是孙维自己亲手发起的，呵呵，也许大家应该谢谢她，如果不是她终于闭不上自己的嘴，可能还不会有这么多人认识到她的丑恶和无耻。
看到一些辩解的帖子，没有什么真正有力的话，无非就是在喊“有证据才可以，否则不要污人清白。。。”这样的话。那好，也许我们应该先对“证据”的概念下一个定义。司法层面上说，法律不看感情和感觉，必须有过硬的无法推翻的证据，辅助以嫌疑人的口供，形成有效而完整的“证据链”，才可以提请诉讼，这样的证据通常指的是物证、人证等看的见、摸的到的，以做到所 谓的“铁证如山”。
无论中国还是外国，实际上有很多案件最终被搁置或者被撤消，并不是嫌疑人无辜，而是“ 证据不足”，法律是会放过一些真正有罪的人，这是基于法律首先要避免因过度的“有罪推定”而造成冤案，说白了，就是如果证据不足，即使地球人都知道嫌疑人就是凶手，法律操作上也不能仅仅依据民心而加以裁定和惩罚。孙维，就是这样一个典型的案例。但是，证据不足又有两种原因：一是真的不足，即现有技术和条件确实无法采集到强有力的证据信息，那只能说是凶手做的很聪明或者是时间久远，凶手很侥幸。二是有证据但是由于其他的非司法原因的介入，而形成利益交换，隐瞒或销毁证据，最终达到从法律层面无法对嫌疑人进行诉讼的结果。 我不想做任何武断，也许在孙维这里，两个情况都存在。
但是，大家都明白，真相永远都存在，只是是否被公众所了解，或者是了解的广度和深度的区别。在任何国家，都有公开的信息和非公开的信息，后者往往是供少数人了解真实情况的，这些材料的真实性通常都是非常高的，孙维应该明白，在中国，她还不是外星人，她当年做的、说的，国家都有记录，这些信息也远不止一两个人才能看到。请不要拿出一副“你是什么人？能看到内部信息”这样的嘴脸来讲话，内部信息也是给人看的，对吗？而且能看到它的人也未必一定都必须是政治局委员们。
各位朋友，我并不掌握这些记录的原件，复印件也没有，你们可以相信也可以不相信，这我并不想做任何辩解，上报最高机关的文件我没有那个本事拿出来。我只是想诚实的告诉大家，在国家的档案中，白纸黑字写下了“孙维对其实施下毒的行为供认不讳。。。以及详细的做案时间和经过。。。。。，但是因为司法调查展开的时候距离朱被下毒的时间太久了，刑事鉴定方面没有能够从获得的物品（杯子等物品）中检验出铊元素的成分，因此不能构成支持孙本人供述的证据支持。。。。。最终，公安部门终止调查。”请大家想想“供认不讳”这四个字的意思吧。
如果是另外其他什么人，我想大家都会说，那可能是刑讯逼供的结果，但是最有趣的证明恰好是孙本人亲口告诉大家的：她被隔离了8个小时后就被家人领回了，以她的家庭背景，恐怕一是公安不会动粗，二是真要动粗了对她倒是最有利的一个条件了，她一定会告诉全中国的人她是被中国黑暗的司法制度给冤枉的现代大窦娥，还有什么比那样的反驳更有力 ？
所以，即使是智商不太高的人也能看出来：孙维本人都没有说自己曾被刑讯，那一定是真的，否则她会大做文章；而国家有关部门上报高层的书面材料，以她的家庭背景，以及阅件人的身份，大家是否认为会故意伪造说是她自己供认的？如果真是那样，就是要办她，而不是要保她了。
所以，如果大家把这些信息综合起来，不用多少脑子，也能分析出来事情的真相了。我提醒大家一点，我们在这里的讨论，不是要重新启动司法程序，那确实不现实，案子本身其实一点复杂和难度都没有，要办早就办了，所以尽管我们都很遗憾，但是我还是要说我们不是来给孙维定罪的（起码不是司法角度的定罪）我们在这里，是因为有人要否认真相，逃脱了法律制裁已经是天大的便宜了，居然还有脸来说“真相”？？问问你自己，你说的话里，除了自己的名字是真的，还有什么算是真相？ 恶毒 和狭隘都还不那么气人，不要脸就真的太无耻了。
各位朋友，我说的话和我看到的，我只能代表自己表示是真实 的。你们相信不相信，就是你们自己去判断的事情了。
------------------------知情人
说14处对孙是传唤，不是拘留。似乎孙家并未出面澄清。并且即使你所说是事实，也无实质意义，证明不了孙公主的无辜。因为在中国，公安对孙这类权贵实行的是严格法则：没有绝对把握，是没人敢捅这个篓子的。
如果是依法办案，那孙公主享受到的就不会是拘留，更不会是传唤，而是逮捕，建议学习《刑事诉讼法》第六十条。另外，就算是你所说的传唤，也是在立案以后两年才作的。那试问一下：公安对一件惊天轰动大案，居然可以对唯一的嫌疑人不传唤、不拘留、不逮捕达两年之久，岂不是犯了玩忽职守罪？如果没有“猫腻”，是可以想象的吗？
被孙家拿作挡箭盾牌的无罪推定，实际只适用于审查起诉阶段与法庭审理阶段，而不适用于立案侦查阶段。立案侦查阶段适用的恰恰是有罪推定。请问：如果不推定有罪，凭什么对他立案侦查？可见以“疑罪从无”反对怀疑孙公主不是很滑稽吗？从这点上看，孙家故意扩大了无罪推定的适用范围，只能说是别有用心。
必须指出，本案中的孙公主已完全满足逮捕条件，小子亦忝为法律人，可以负责任地说：象孙公主这种具有社会危险性的投毒嫌疑人，在侦查阶段就必须逮捕归案，如果侦查机关自己没有撤销案件，或检察院没作出不起诉决定，以及法院没宣告无罪，任何人无权将其释放。由于当时公安机关并未撤销案件，所以即使要实行无罪推定予以释放，也必须在检察院作出证据不足不起诉或法庭作出证据不足宣告无罪后，方可从看守所放出。本案办理过程中，程序明显违法。如果不是法盲，当不难理解。正是孙公主一直逍遥法外的事实雄辩地说明了权力对司法的粗暴干涉，对这种丑恶的现实，难道兄竟认为不应当鞭笞吗？
并且也可以负责任地指出：即使孙公主不能认定犯罪，其身居高位的伯父干预司法的行为也触犯了《刑法》第三百九十七条的滥用职权罪，构成了犯罪行为。该条规定：“国家机关工作人员滥用职权或者玩忽职守，致使公共财产、国家和人民利益遭受重大损失的，处三年以下有期徒刑或者拘役；情节特别严重的，处三年以上七年以下有期徒刑。”而根据1999年9月16日起施行的最高人民检察院《关于人民检察院直接受理立案侦查案件立案标准的规定（试行）》规定：“公共财产、国家和人民利益的重大损失是指具备下列情形之一者：……严重损害国家声誉，或者造成恶劣社会影响的；……”怎么样？够犯罪的标准了吧？即使今天因为诉讼时效已不能对孙高官进行追究（如果按照情节恶劣则尚未过追诉期），但对这个犯罪行为难道也不应该声讨与鞭挞了吗？
无罪分：不认为是犯罪的无罪、没有证据的无罪、证据不足（疑罪从无）的无罪。感觉上有人故意混淆概念，把证据不足硬说成是没有证据，兄认为是吗？另外，根据孙家的表现，人们难道没有权利质问：本案是真的证据不足？还是权力干预下的证据不足？
“无罪推定”，这是不错的，是文明社会的法制基本原则。但正如很多外国的好东西一到了中国沾上“中国特色”就变了味一样，也成就了中国特色的无罪推定。可以说：笔者推崇无罪推定，旗帜鲜明地支持无罪推定。但这必须是通过合法程序的无罪推定，而不是权势者一手遮天，使案件不了了之，然后拿来作遮羞布，搪塞天下舆论的无罪推定。相信除了权势者以外，普通老百姓谁也不支持这种权势者为我所用的无罪推定。
如果孙公主真的无辜，最着急的应当是孙家人。因为对朱家来说，毕竟损害已造成，惩办凶手对他们并无实质意义。以孙家之势力，如果凶手真的另有其人，能容忍得下公安的无能吗？
本案黑幕重重，从立案后两年内公安竟不能采取传唤、拘留、逮捕等刑侦措施及此后发生的事实，让人们看到了太多的权力介入的丑恶，兄难道认为不应还人间一个清白吗？
再说一遍：无罪推定只适用于刑事审判，并不适用于立案侦查，也不适用于民事审判，更不适用于压制舆论。美国的辛普森案，刑事法庭判其无罪，但民事法庭却认定其杀妻成立，判其赔偿500万（数字可能记错）。在中国也有类似案例，建议兄自己学习一下。
因此，对于一个99%的嫌疑人，刑事法庭可以因防止冤枉好人判其无罪，民事法庭却可以因合理相信而进行认定，社会舆论更可以凭良心对其鞭笞评击。这不但是舆论自由的应有之义，也是天理良心于无奈之后的最后的宣泄与伸张。兄似乎也承认存有封杀媒体压制舆论之事，敢认为背后没有孙家势力的运作吗？敢问兄对此是认可还是反对？
对比台湾的驸马案，主政者是否应感到汗颜？作为一介公民，古人云：位卑未敢忘忧国，天下兴亡，匹夫有责。是否应当作些事？那是推动重启此案，还是继续高举“疑罪从无”的大旗，为孙家辩护，不准怀疑孙公主，反对、阻挠彻查此案呢？
其实，今天的局面就是当年孙家干预司法的结果，要问孙家为什么不走正常程序，原因只有一个，那就是他们不敢！谁是凶手就是不言而喻的了。以兄之精明，再死抱无罪推定哓哓置辩孙公主的清白，不觉得有点傻吗？
再说一遍：无罪推定只适用于法庭审理，我等小民在网上只需秉持天理良心，做自己的判断，说想说的话，只求白天无人指点，晚上睡个好觉。至于无罪推定的原则，孙家自有超群的能力把它发挥到极致，无需小民（马仔、粉丝除外）代庖。
因倡导理性讨论，故写了这些，不当之处，敢请指教
Today南郭吹竽
孙维声明中提到的向最高领导求情说和麻袋说是朱令大学同学们
指责贝志城为“谣言”制造者的根据。这个说法载网上流传已久，
究竟是不是贝志城最早在网上提出还是别人说的对于判断贝志城的
人品和动机很关键。本人经过多日考古，发现网上的求情说和麻袋说
最早的来源不是贝志城，而是当年参与互联网救助朱令的Xin Li博士。
互联网上我找到最早的说法出现在2002年3月7日：
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/helpzhuling/message/3
李博士是最早在互联网上“造谣”的。可见，如果孙维要告贝志城是搞错了对象，她应该去告Xin Li博士。物化2薛书记等众人批驳贝志城、诋毁其人品也是证据不足，无的放矢。
关于物化2班朱令同宿舍女生王琪的近况正在考古中，尚差一些关键
信息，请网友提供更多有用线索。
作者：隔壁的张木匠
"此地无银三百两,隔壁王二不曾偷"的典故大家都知道,在这个笑话里,王二的画蛇添足成了他偷银的铁证,相信当时的县官大老爷以此为证再加一顿板子,王二就要乖乖的认罪把银子吐出来.可是如果放到现在来判呢?那就要看王二的律师以及和县太爷的关系了,因为王二竖的那块牌子不是他偷银的证据,只能说他有嫌疑,除非李四站出来说他亲眼看到了,或者是在王二家搜出了那些能够认定是赃物的银子,否则按照"疑罪从无",王二不能被认定是小偷.
但老百姓可不这么想,他们会说这县太爷是个笨蛋,要么是收了王二的银子.所以除非王二是巡抚大人的亲侄子甚至皇上身边近臣的亲戚,否则王二最终还是会被绳之以法的,不管是不是有直接证据----这种时候咱们的司法机关可不是吃素的,尤其是对这种"民愤极大,影响极坏"的案子.
好了,罗嗦了那么一大堆,就是想说,这世界上,画蛇添足的事还是别做的好.想让别人认为自己当年那件旧衬衣干干净净,最好的办法是不给别人看(别人信不信那是他的事,至少他不敢保证那不干净),可不是拿到最好的干洗店里漂洗几遍拿出来向人展示以表清白-----须知洗的再干净,漂的再白,太阳一照总会看到点黄斑的.
孙女士的声明就有点这画蛇添足的味道.本来嘛,这互联网的事情大部分就是个起哄凑热闹的事,说什么都不能太认真的,这阵过了,观众腻味了,也就没人提了---当时大热的佘祥林案现在谁还关心最后的结局了?包括当时最义愤填膺的那些ID!同样的,CY事件如此大热,现在除了几个老马甲,谁还懒得去翻或回那些贴子?
可孙女士终于还是把这件旧衬衣拿出来展示了,而且经过了一流的漂洗,一眼看去真的是洁白无暇,一尘不染,更有一众"正义之士"在傍边引经据典,义正严词的证明着孙女士的清白,痛斥着"怀疑者"的"诬蔑",直有不把贝先生等一众人等不送上法庭誓不罢休之势.可我看来看去,怎么看着孙女士的声明越来越象王二竖的那块"不曾偷"的牌子?
以下观点纯属个人看法,大家看看就行:
1.孙女士的<声明>我以为非孙女士一人之作,也非一天之作,而是集体智慧的结晶.其观点之明确,论证之清晰,论据严密,用词之准确,考虑之之全面,堪称一篇不可多得的佳作,几可作为法律人士的范文---至少我们单位那个贵的要死的律师就写不出这么严密的声明来.我也相信,这篇声明里的大部分客观事件和时间点都是准确的.当然,那些主观的判断另作他论.
2.正因为这篇<声明>,使得我们这些旁观者对这起案子有了完整的认识,但却使得包括我在内的很多人,对这个案子重新有了一些判断,而这些判断在中国,是不需要去证明的,因为那是中国社会的潜规则.
判断1 这个案子公安确实遇到了强大的阻力----这个案件是如此特殊,清华女生被二次投毒,毒物又是如此特殊--一种重金属铊,被害人的经历如此凄惨,犯罪动机让人不可捉摸,高科技犯罪,被害人生活圈子如此之小,互联网的作用----这样的案子,没有什么理由公安不把他作为重点案件侦破的,也没有理由2年没有什么头绪,直到"97年3月，朱令家人致信北京市公安局长，指出学生即将毕业离校，其中很多人将出国留学，此案急需抓紧侦破，不能放走凶手；不久又上书国家领导人"后,孙女士才做了"8小时"的嫌疑人,就是说如果朱家不做努力,不上书到"国家领导人",这个案子从头到尾就没有犯罪嫌疑人!北京的公安当真这么白痴?这个案件真的这么复杂?论坛上很多人都谈到了这个案件的嫌犯所必备的几个条件,那些首都的刑侦专家还会不清楚?真的这么难? 所以根据孙女士的声明,我的判断是,这个案件确实被人为干预了,办案确实被阻挠了,没有"国家领导人"的干预,这个案子可能从头到尾都没有"犯罪嫌疑人"!更加证明我这一判断的是,从此案被贝先生重提到今天,无论是官方还是网上,无论是用正式声明还是化名形式,至今没有一个来自北京公安方面对此案的正式或非正式说明!更没有什么平面媒体对这一事件进行追踪报道!只有民间的一些议论!这只能说明一点:这个案子的水很深,盖子很严,圈内人没有人愿意或敢出头去打开这个被捂了11年的盖子!
判断二.8小时的"犯罪嫌疑人"不是人人都能享受的待遇.请注意,按孙女士"声明"的说法,她只做了8小时的犯罪嫌疑人就被释放了.我只想说一点,一个2年没破的重大刑事案件,唯一当过犯罪嫌疑人的人却只被关了8小时就被放了,这在中国意味着什么?至于声明中那句"可以想象公安当时一定面临巨大的破案压力，他们希望尽快抓到凶手，对上级领导和朱令家人能有个交代。这也解释了为什么朱令中毒两年多公安机关一直没什么动静却突然在1997年4月2日对我进行突击讯问。"就明显是一句鬼话了.公安再傻也不会去无缘无故惹一个家庭背景如此之深的人,因为这是在中国,这是在首都,这是在一个无权无势就可以含冤到死,而一个小小村长都可以草菅人命长期逍遥法外的国家!北京的公安敢在太岁头上动土?如果除了孙女士还有别的人被当做犯罪嫌疑人,还说的过去,可我们看到现在,除了孙女士,没有其他犯罪嫌疑人(这点我想是肯定的,否则孙女士的声明一定会提到!)
判断三 清华校方的扣发毕业证的举动绝不是那么简单的要推卸责任.因为这是在中国,"打狗看主人"的中国.我说一个简单的例子,我认识一位某个著名大学的教授,曾经当过该校的研究生院院长,就是因为坚持不愿给一位不学无术的高干子弟签发学位证书,最后被逼辞职,继任者第一天就签字让那位高干子弟结了业,而那位教授后来在评选学部委员时,也因此没能评上.这就是中国高校的现状.所以,当时清华如此对待孙女士,肯定是承受着巨大压力的,而且是知道后果的,其坚持的原因绝不是怀疑和推卸责任,而是有他们的依据---当然,这个依据是什么,孙女士的声明不会告诉我们,现在的清华也未必会告诉我们.
就像用无数的化石的碎片，人们可以拼凑几千万年前的史前动物的轮廓一样。在信息如此发达的互联网时代，当无数的信息汇集在一起的时候，就像那无数的化石的碎片，10年前的那状“悬案”的轮廓，已经拼的越来越清晰。而案件中的诸多疑点，也正在一个个的被合理的解释出来，而这些疑点，却都明确的指向了一个群体（请大家注意，不是一个人）！
1、犯罪嫌疑人的投毒动机是什么？
我们已经基本可以肯定，朱令是被人投毒。而且也可以肯定的是 ，投毒者绝对不是外人，而是朱令身边的人。那么什么是投毒的动机呢？嫉妒！可以说朱令的优秀成了她引来杀身之祸的原因，当然，或许也有她特立独行、侍才傲物的行为（例如反映的经常晚上很晚回宿舍，影响同宿舍的同学 的休息）。一个才貌兼备的女生，在大学的校园里是很受男生的青睐的，但是却并不表示受女生的欢迎。而让她们 感觉到的，是不快，嫉妒甚至是威胁。她们甚至会自发的抱成一个小团体来抵制该女生，而特别是这个小团体中又 有家庭特殊，出身娇贵的人为核心的时候。而当朱令越来越威胁到某人的地位的时候（如声乐甚至情感方面），于 是这种嫉妒就会转化为报复行为。但是从目前能得到的资料来看，用铊毒毒害朱令，并非只是一个人知情。可以这 么推断，如何报复朱令，很可能是小团体的共同协商的结果（或许用铊投毒是其中一位的提议，或者是其他人怂恿 报复行为后其中一位的决定）。报复是投毒案的动机，但是杀人并不是犯罪嫌疑人的目的。她们的目的只是报复，
或者想让朱令出丑（如朱令第一次中毒期间就有校园传闻被“鬼剃头”），或者只是想让朱令病倒休学而摆脱她的 威胁。但是遗憾的是，二次中毒后协和医院的昏庸，造成了相当严重的后果。这个后果已经超过了几个合谋者的预 想，已经不是她们能控制的局面（这也是为什么有人为嫌疑人辩解而矛头指向协和医院的原因）。（协和医院）害 了大家，那是真心话。不光害了朱令，也害了投毒的嫌疑人！
2、为什么要用铊投毒
铊 是一种非常少见的东西，可能这个案件之前，80%的人读不准它的发音。为什么嫌疑人会选择这样的一个东西来 投毒？要知道，越稀有的东西，能接触到的人越少，而犯罪嫌疑人越容易锁定，越容易暴露自己。但是犯罪嫌疑人选用了铊，而不是氰化物，不是毒鼠强。很简单的解释就是如上所说，嫌疑人并不是想致人于死地。没预计过警察 的介入。甚至嫌疑人自己都不知道铊的毒性有多强。之所以选用铊，是因为犯罪嫌疑人知道铊有一个潜伏期，而它中毒的症状，甚至很少有人知道（朱令的第一次和第二次中毒的前期，连医生都束手无策也印证了这一点）。但是 犯罪嫌疑人是知道铊中毒的某些后果的 ------这点应该不是来至于老师或者学科的知识，而是来至于某些小说中的描述！正是这种一知半解但又自以为是的了解，可能就是嫌疑人用铊的原因！-- -----脱掉朱令 的秀发------或者让她怪病一场，离开自己的圈子。
3、警方为何在已经有明确的目标传讯了一 个嫌疑人之后，最终案件却无法结案
目前不少的流言说其中家境显赫的犯罪嫌疑人的祖父利用自 己的政治力量干扰了警察的办案。其实这个是不能让人相信的。但是事实是在朱令中毒到警方立案的时间太长，给 了犯罪嫌疑人毁灭证据的机会。一次宿舍的突然失窃，而丢失的东西，不是财物，而是朱令的化妆品。牙膏等私人物品。那么可以肯定的是，这些丢失的东西，就是毒物铊的载体。而令人巧合的是，用化妆品下毒的情节惊人的出现在过一本小说之中。朱令的中毒有二次，但是并不是表示凶手一定要投毒二次！当朱令第一次中毒不深，回到宿舍之后，谁也无法保证她不会继续用那些东西，而作为下毒者，见朱令没有被查出铊中毒，自 然也不会主动的让朱停止用那些东西，于是，二次中毒发生了。当嫌疑人已经意识到事态的严重的时候，于是宿舍 出现了一次奇怪的失窃。一切的物证都没有了。而于嫌疑人一起合谋的人，出于对自身的保护，自然是保持沉默。 以至到后来的整个化学系，整个清华园，都对中毒事件采取了沉默------这就是《西点揭密》的中国现实版！而在没有任何人证和物证的情况下，警察能做什么呢？嫌疑人显赫的家庭使嫌疑人享受到了法律的公正---- --疑罪从无！
非常普通的知识分子，妈妈是医生，爸爸也是搞技术的，不是什么有权人！
小7，你认识这个SW？？
贝志诚自己也承认，在10年间并非一直在努力的为朱令伸冤，追查凶手。但是为何在一夜之间，站出来在网络对当年 的嫌疑人做出了指名道姓怀疑？而更令人惊奇的是，嫌疑人居然同样在网上（而不是在法律上）做出了声明来回应 ！嫌疑人是声明给谁的？贝志诚在网上掀起的风浪影响到了谁？谁迫使嫌疑人在网上来做出回应？
解释似乎只有一个，嫌疑人的丈夫！
如果能确定嫌疑人丈夫的身份，以及他们结婚的日期的话 ，那么下面的推断将解出上面的问题。因为据说嫌疑人是新婚不久，并再次做准备出国（以前的申请都没有成功） 。而同为高干子弟圈内的贝，可能在无意中得到了这个消息。可能一边想着自己的高中同学现在的惨状，一边嫌疑 人却新婚燕尔，准备远走高飞。于是贝在网络上掀出10年的投毒案件，不论是出于正义还是义愤，贝的目的只有 一个------闹给嫌疑人的丈夫看的！可以这么说，10年来，嫌疑人身边的人，对 10年前的事情已经 形成了一个默契的圈子，大家心知肚明，但是却又不再提及。但是一个新人的闯入，这个圈子必然会对其隐瞒这些 东西！而有一天，当这些风浪终于传入这位新人的耳朵的时候，嫌疑人感到了现实的压力。于是，她到风浪掀起的 地方------发表她的声明！发给谁看呢？她想向谁表示她的清白呢？或许天下人都怀疑她，她也是无所谓的 ，但是她无法忍受自己丈夫的怀疑------欺骗对于爱情来说，基本就是终结。于是就可以解释嫌疑人为什么 急于在网络上澄清自己------而且联络了当年的小团体的成员们-------而这也就是为什么有人在嫌疑人发贴几分钟内，发出长篇的回复------一切有如当年的默契。也能证明为什么有人站出来力保嫌疑人的 无辜，以为当年，她们就是一个团体。
有位ID木樨地的帖子，如果真是其中一位的话，那是在 对谁的解释呢？嫌疑人的丈夫！
5、10年后，整个案件的结局会怎样？
嫌疑人出身 显赫，或许这种显赫没有给她带来实质的特权（这里我相信老人的正直，嫌疑人的毕业证以及出国手续证明了这一 点），但也带来了心理的优越。但正是这种优越感促使她毁掉了一个优秀的女孩，酿成了一出人间悲剧。我再重申 一次，我相信嫌疑人的动机不是杀人！她做事的心理，像一个小学生，当她看见别人的新衣服比自己漂亮的时候，
就会忍不住偷偷的在背后洒墨水------这是人性的阴暗面，是每个人都有的。但是从小的优越环境，造成了 嫌疑人对这种阴暗心理的放纵------还有就是小团体里的其他人，他们的怂恿也使嫌疑人做出了“背后洒墨 水”的举动。可惜的是，她们忘记了她们的能量，她们用小学生的心态成人的事情-----投毒。当她们第一次 让朱令中毒的时候，或许她们还拍手相庆过。但是，第二次的中毒的严重却让她们感到了压力（或许连投毒人都不 知道怎么解这种毒），她们想逃避（例如冷淡对待这个事件，准备去郊游），这是他们心理脆弱的表现----- -因为事情的危害远远超过了她们的预期。她们订下了攻守的同盟，因为她们的利益连在一起------虽然投 毒者只有一人，但是她们起码属于知情者，参与者，对于一个大学生来说，卷入这个事件意味什么？于是她 如果只发生第一次投毒，那么凶嫌的范围比较广一些，因为当时学校对剧毒品管理可能确实比较混乱，但总的来说，由于使用这种 投毒方式的凶手必然是ZL身边的人，对ZL的起居生活习惯非常了解，
而且具备非常冷门的化学知识，所以即 使ZL的人缘关系再坏，嫌犯的范围应该也不会超过10个人。而本案的第 二次投毒使寻找凶手的范围更加缩小 了。
凶手很快就进行了第二次投毒，这次凶手打算毒死ZL，这能说明 什么呢？
其实追究凶手第二 次投毒的动机本来并没有什么意义，当一个人觉得自己可以杀人不被发现，不受 惩罚，而这个人的品质又很卑劣 时，那么这个人可以为了任何一个在别人看来微不足道的理由去杀人，可能只是因 为好奇，只是为了做一个“科 学试验”，只是为了检验一下自己在书本上学过的知识。而本案凶手第一次投毒的成 功，使凶手相信这种杀人方式非常高明，不会被人发现。因此凶手可以毫无顾虑地第二次下毒，要害死ZL。
但问题是凶手为什么这么急着下手？既然凶手投毒成功，ZL大病一场，往日神气活现、极其健康的ZL现在变 得非常虚弱，美丽的容 貌受损，每天煎着那昂贵的补药，浪费着家里的医药费，还傻傻的丝毫不知道自己为什么会 这样，而且ZL由于 前一学期缺课缺考，目前正忙着复习功课准备补考，再加上身体虚弱，几乎很少离开宿舍，因 此ZL此时恐怕也 根本没有精力再去冒犯任何人。凶手看到这里应该有一种成功的快感，就算她和ZL有深仇大恨 ，也至少应该稍 微欣赏一下自己的战利品，让ZL多受几天罪。但是事实是凶犯等不及了，从刚开学不到一周ZL 就又感觉身体 不适，不到两周ZL就再次毒发入院来看，凶手这次几乎毫不耽搁，刚开学就再次出手，要立刻毒死 ZL，这说 明凶手认为ZL在身边给自己造成的麻烦已经超过了欣赏自己战利品给自己带来的快乐。什么人会有这 样的感觉 呢？我认为这说明凶手必然是和ZL同一寝室的人。因为ZL现在身体虚弱，说不定经常需要这些室友照 应，每 天为ZL打开水，买饭、冲咖啡等等，而这样的生活很可能要持续两年半，直到她们毕业，因此ZL成了凶 手生 活中的一大负担，这决不是投毒凶手甘愿做的，凶手前次投毒时决不希望得到这种结果，这损害了凶手的利益 ，
我想，以此案凶手的人渣品质，就算是她亲妈病了她也不愿长期伺候，更何况是凶手并不喜欢的ZL了。所以凶手决定一不做二不休，干脆毒死ZL，甩掉一个包袱，免除自己的负担。（而且这次ZL由于身体虚弱，几乎整天 呆在宿舍里，外人以及和ZL有矛盾的人就更难下手了，这就更加重了同宿舍人的嫌疑。）
另外，除掉Z L 对凶手还有一个好处，那就是凶手的宿舍里可以空出一张床铺。别小看一张空床铺，如果哪个寝室里有一张空 铺，
会使该寝室里的人居住环境大大改善，这对当年住集体宿舍的学生还是很有吸引力的。如果能尽快除掉ZL ，她们 宿舍至少可以在一个学期里保持一张空床。如果清华本科生宿舍是按年级划分的，那么这个空铺位就可以保持到她们毕业了。
撇开匆匆停止办案不说，其实公安局的人可能还犯了一个错误，就是认为凶手 只有一人，
因为SW是最具备各种嫌疑条件的人，但由于SW的背景很硬，上面不让查，案子就办不下去了。不知道当时办案的人了解不了解学生宿舍文化，我怀疑此案更可能是多人合伙作案。因为根据目前了解的情况，当 年ZL除了与S W关系较好外，与周围大多数人的关系都不太好。当年本人在学校里也见到过类似情况，当时班 上一名不讨人喜欢 的同学一心想入党，因此挨个宿舍拉关系，寻求大家支持，但他却不知道，各个宿舍里的同学 早就商量好了，无论 是党员还是群众，当院党支部就该同学入党征求大家意见时，几乎没有人为他说好话，结果 这个同学直到毕业也没 入上党。男生都会合伙整另一个同学，女生宿舍里发生此类事件应该就更普遍了。我猜测 ，当时ZL由于活动较多 ，和同学之间沟通较少，因此彼此感情冷淡，甚至因为自身条件优秀而怠慢了同学，使 某些同学对她嫉恨在心。而 她经常晚上12点才回宿舍，也直接影响本宿舍同学的休息，使本宿舍的某些同学也 大为不满。当ZL不在宿舍时 ，那些嫉恨她的人（也可能有其它宿舍的女生）可能会经常议论ZL，期盼着如何 能整一整ZL。某一次SW提出了用铊盐，并介绍了用铊盐的效果及好处，最大的好处可能就是不容易被发现。方案引起了大家的兴趣，于是她们决定试一试，先由SW从试验室拿到铊盐（也可能是另外某个女生在SW的指 引下拿的，但SW去拿更合理一些， 因为她有比较正当的理由，比较方便，即使别人看见也不会疑心她是在偷拿 ，而且她也说过她当初做试验时，铊盐 溶液都是别人配好放在桌上的，说明当时还是有一定管理制度的，只不过 这些制度通常是防君子不防小人的）。我 猜测在ZL第一次中毒时，下毒的人里可能没有SW，因为毕竟ZL把 她当作班上最好的朋友，她可能还不想亲自 下手，反正有别人代劳，但这个人是谁SW肯定知道。另外，限于专 业水平，我无法判断第一次投毒是多次小剂量 投放还是一次性大剂量投放，如果是多次小剂量投，那么投毒的人 也许不止一个，这就是第一次投毒事件。对于第 二次投毒，基于前面的分析，我认为态度最积极的应该是与ZL 同一宿舍的人。如果假定凶手比较老练，那么第一次ZL毒发住院后，凶手应该将未投出的铊盐抛弃，以防案发 被查获，所以第二次投毒所用的铊盐可能还是SW去 拿的（不知道SW在这学期是否还在做那个有关铊的研究课 题）。由于想尽快摆脱ZL，这一次投放量比较大，而且可能次数比较少，由于开学没多久ZL就毒发住院，这 段时间里ZL和SW接触次数不多，所以ZL能记起SW 在那几天里曾给她喝过咖啡等事情，所以这一次SW很 可能亲自参与下毒了。
由此推测，SW是整个投毒案 件的源头，没有SW的提议，不会有人想到用铊盐来 害ZL，铊盐也很可能是由SW从试验室弄来的，主要投毒人 可能是另外的人（SW也可能参与，但次数较少），整个事件SW完全掌握。参与者我认为可能有3人或更多，前 后两次下毒的人可能并不完全相同，并且可能另 有知情但未实际参与行动的人。
还有一点让人不解，就是有 几位据说是SW的同班同学不久前站出来担保 SW不是凶手，真不知这几个人凭什么给人担保。就我本人来说，当 我身边发生了这样的事，而凶手就是身边的 人并且还没有落网时，除非我明确知道凶手是另外某个人，否则我不可 能为某个人打保票，我不相信这些清华的 学生不明白这一点，因此这几个人为SW担保的动机和依据值得研究。
案发后，SW至今仍能顶住压力不认 罪。除了因为她的家庭背景、警方掌握证据有限外，我认为也可能与警方 对整个案情的把握不全也有关。多年前本人看过一部法国小说，书中描写一个年轻男子杀死了自己的父母，后被警察抓获并送上法庭
小7，你认识这个SW？？ 我在网上看到的！
我在网上看到的！
和和,不要以为自己可以永远一手遮天.很高兴央视能播出这样一个节目,至少看到一点点曙光. S和其好友们在前一阵子没少口吐狂言.有兴趣的各位自己去百度朱令吧搜搜看. 再冷酷的凶手,面对还活着的朱令,也会觉得是一种威胁,一种精神折磨.祝福朱令能看到云开日出的那一天! Bless 朱令 too 不论哪个SW是不是凶手，对这个女人一点好感也没有
孙他爸爸或者妈妈是干什么的？？？？？？？？？
我是回答这位ID的问题，我还真不知道别的，连她爸爸的职业都没记清，怎么就能肯定我是知道不说？ 严惩真凶！！！
我是回答这位ID的问题，我还真不知道别的，连她爸爸的职业都没记清，怎么就能肯定我是知道不说？ 严惩真凶！！！
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-27 0:59:16编辑过]
我是回答这位ID的问题，我还真不知道别的，连她爸爸的职业都没记清，怎么就能肯定我是知道不说？ 严惩真凶！！！
这些都算是什么证据啊？！真是莫名其妙！ 确实不是证据，但可以解释她的行为
孙维在声明中对她爷爷的叙述令人发笑，什么尊敬了，什么正直了，除了蒙蔽大家的眼睛之外，说这些有用吗？孙维强调她97年才被警方注意调查，而95年她爷爷就死了，蒙谁呢？95年案发到97年，两年时间北京公安才注意到你？鬼才信！你真是把天下人当成傻瓜了！！
再来看看孙维家的另一棵大树，孙维的伯父，此人的作用比孙维那个已不在其位的爷爷可大多了，他就是前政协副主席——孙孚凌
下面是孙孚凌的仕途一览：
1959年，第三届政协 全国青年联
1965年，第四届政协 439名特别邀请人士之一
1978年，第五届政协 中华全国工商业联合会(五十名)
1983年，第六届政协 常务委员
1988年，第七届政协 常务委员
1993-1998年，第八届政协 副主席
1998-2003年，第九届政协 副主席
2004年，未见资料 (退出政协？)
注意，从1993年到2003年，孙的伯父达到了他政治生涯中的巅峰，孙维投毒一案正发生在94年间，一直到2003年，孙维在她伯父的权力光环下被维护了9年之久，足以让她跑路到国外。退一万步来说，孙维没有投毒，9年的时光，她居然没有起诉清华扣发毕业证，没有起诉贝的“胡说八道”，没有直接面对朱家的人，这九年，无辜的孙维你是怎么熬过来的啊？应该不是骨瘦如柴，就是已经病入膏肓，和朱令差不多了吧。
可是不是这样，你孙维又活跃了起来，十年之后发出了一份看似措辞严谨，实则漏洞百出的声明。我只提你的第一句：“1994年我的同学朱令铊中毒，且因治疗不当导致终身致残，震惊中外。”，朱令一案震惊世界，不是因为协和的治疗不当，而是因为在中国第一高校，清华园内被有预谋的人两次投毒。就算你是局外人，你认为被人投毒和协和误诊哪个是重点？你从第一句就开始有意识的避开重点，试图把问题的焦点从自己身上引开，甚至还用了滑稽可笑的“窃听器”来迷惑众人视线，可谓欲盖弥彰！
孙越崎死了，孙孚凌退出了政协，你们孙家的权力大树已经逐一倒下，朱令一案的追诉期还有5年，朱令的父母和家人绝对不会放过你！正如你所说的，这个案件震惊了世界，相信你走到何处都无法摆脱世人对你的鄙夷和仇视，仅仅发表一个声明就能洗清你的罪孽吗？
表达一下我个人对你的看法：你绝对是一个人渣！！！
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-27 3:25:23编辑过]
fallingleaves，到目前为止，没有一点证据说S是凶手。如果她只是一个蒙冤10年的人了？如果你被蒙冤10年，会什么感受？
公道最后总会出来的,该受到惩罚的也不会逃的过去!!! 蒙冤也不是随随便便就能被蒙的.
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-27 2:46:23编辑过]
4、为何在10年之后，贝志诚突然在网络上掀出了这桩投毒案？
贝志诚自己也承认，在10年间并非一直在努力的为朱令伸冤，追查凶手。但是为何在一夜之间，站出来在网络对当年 的嫌疑人做出了指名道姓怀疑？而更令人惊奇的是，嫌疑人居然同样在网上（而不是在法律上）做出了声明来回应 ！嫌疑人是声明给谁的？贝志诚在网上掀起的风浪影响到了谁？谁迫使嫌疑人在网上来做出回应？
解释似乎只有一个，嫌疑人的丈夫！
如果能确定嫌疑人丈夫的身份，以及他们结婚的日期的话 ，那么下面的推断将解出上面的问题。因为据说嫌疑人是新婚不久，并再次做准备出国（以前的申请都没有成功） 。而同为高干子弟圈内的贝，可能在无意中得到了这个消息。可能一边想着自己的高中同学现在的惨状，一边嫌疑 人却新婚燕尔，准备远走高飞。于是贝在网络上掀出10年的投毒案件，不论是出于正义还是义愤，贝的目的只有 一个------闹给嫌疑人的丈夫看的！可以这么说，10年来，嫌疑人身边的人，对 10年前的事情已经 形成了一个默契的圈子，大家心知肚明，但是却又不再提及。但是一个新人的闯入，这个圈子必然会对其隐瞒这些 东西！而有一天，当这些风浪终于传入这位新人的耳朵的时候，嫌疑人感到了现实的压力。于是，她到风浪掀起的 地方------发表她的声明！发给谁看呢？她想向谁表示她的清白呢？或许天下人都怀疑她，她也是无所谓的 ，但是她无法忍受自己丈夫的怀疑------欺骗对于爱情来说，基本就是终结。于是就可以解释嫌疑人为什么 急于在网络上澄清自己------而且联络了当年的小团体的成员们-------而这也就是为什么有人在嫌疑人发贴几分钟内，发出长篇的回复------一切有如当年的默契。也能证明为什么有人站出来力保嫌疑人的 无辜，以为当年，她们就是一个团体。
这是在说什么呢？！什么据说啊，可能啊，然后根据这些“据说”、“可能”来“推断”，真是不负责任。不知道为什么还有人要转这些！ 还有，要是SW家的势力大到可以把这个案子压下去的地步，她怎么会不能出国呢？当年又怎么会拿不到毕业证书呢？！公安局都能搞得定的人会搞不定学校？笑话！帮她把事情压下去的人能就这么放她在国内成为一颗定时炸弹？？？那不是搬石头砸自己的脚吗！肯定会在帮她把案子压下去后就把她弄出国。SW家有点势力是肯定的，但是也只限于阻止住在没有确切证据的情况下被随便抓起来结案罢了。
你搞笑呢吧，这两条可是从2000年左右就在mitbbs上，每隔一阵，跟那什么经似的，讨论一通。。。。。。。 假不假的，人家爷爷就是94 95年死的，孙就是97年才第一次被定为第一嫌疑人的，你倒是说怎么拉手。。。。。。。 行了行了，都跟你说了，网上真的假的谣言太多太多了。。。。。。。。 所以说，大家就骂凶手明天就被车撞死就可以了。。。。。。。 来， 我们讨论下， 你判定公安是97年确定孙为第一（应该也是唯一） 嫌疑人是依据什么？ 为什么从1995年4月报案到1997年4月历经两年才突然确定？ 孙的祖父1995年12月9日去世， 从1995年4月到他去世前， 你怎么知道公安没有个嫌疑人？ 凶手被车撞死前最好把事情交代清楚。
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-27 12:46:55编辑过]
生平 孫越崎為清朝燕堂公孙延昌之子，原名毓骐，1893年10月16日出生于浙江绍兴县平水乡同康村。1919年，他為“五四”运动中天津五位学生代表之一。毕业後，他投入商界，在1949年前创办和领导多个煤矿、油矿，為中國二戰前後知名實業家之一。 他于1938年加入国民党，曾於1948年孫科內閣內任国民政府行政院政务委员兼资源委员会委员长，也隨後於何應欽內閣內任经济部长等职。在政黨方面，他擔任國民黨候补中央执行委员，1949年，被國民黨开除党籍後，同年加入中国国民党革命委员会，並任該党派中央委员。同年，中華人民共和國建立，他仍為該党派重要成員之一，並曾當選常委、副主席、监委会主席、中央名誉主席等职。 1995年12月9日孫越崎病逝于北京，终年103岁。 [编辑]
家庭生活 孙越崎有两任妻子。1912年，他和诸暨县柳坞村的葛采湘结婚，虽是指腹为婚，但两人感情很好。1923年葛采湘病故，留下一子一女。1926年8月26日他和天津师范毕业生王仪孟结婚。1996年1月10日，夫人王仪孟一在孙去世一个月后也因病逝世。王仪孟是孙大武和孙叔涵的母亲。 孙越崎长子孙竹生，1914年生，母亲葛采湘，西南交通大学机械系教授，机车车辆专家、教育家。孙越崎小儿子孙大武和第二任妻子陈懿德有一女孙维。另外，孙越崎的弟弟孙英坡有两个儿子，长子孙常龄，次子孙孚凌。
这是在说什么呢？！什么据说啊，可能啊，然后根据这些“据说”、“可能”来“推断”，真是不负责任。不知道为什么还有人要转这些！ 还有，要是SW家的势力大到可以把这个案子压下去的地步，她怎么会不能出国呢？当年又怎么会拿不到毕业证书呢？！公安局都能搞得定的人会搞不定学校？笑话！帮她把事情压下去的人能就这么放她在国内成为一颗定时炸弹？？？那不是搬石头砸自己的脚吗！肯定会在帮她把案子压下去后就把她弄出国。SW家有点势力是肯定的，但是也只限于阻止住在没有确切证据的情况下被随便抓起来结案罢了。 一，她出国很多年了 二，她只是晚拿到，并不是没有拿到毕业证书 既然据说如果不能作为理由，你的最后一句结论更来得可笑，如果你是当权决策人，请当我没说
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一，她出国很多年了 二，她只是晚拿到，并不是没有拿到毕业证书 既然据说如果不能作为理由，你的最后一句结论更来得可笑，如果你是当权决策人，请当我没说
一，她出国很多年了 二，她只是晚拿到，并不是没有拿到毕业证书 既然据说如果不能作为理由，你的最后一句结论更来得可笑，如果你是当权决策人，请当我没说
来， 我们讨论下， 你判定公安是97年确定孙为第一（应该也是唯一） 嫌疑人是依据什么？ 为什么从1995年4月报案到1997年4月历经两年才突然确定？ 孙的祖父1995年12月9日去世， 从1995年4月到他去世前， 你怎么知道公安没有个嫌疑人？ 凶手被车撞死前最好把事情交代清楚。 你说咱俩争个什么劲， 反正都觉得凶手应该千刀万剐。区别只是你觉得凶手定了，我觉得还很难说。 其实孙到底是不是凶手，世界上最多两个人知道，孙和凶手（或者孙就是凶手，那就一个人清楚了）。 俺们不争了， 行不？
对了,我有个疑问:
我们的一再要求下，8月下旬，校党委、校办及系领导等再次在校招待所（丙所）接待我们。我们表示学校扣发我的毕业证书和学位证书是没有任何依据的。校党委领导竟然说：“现在有两条路让你选择：要么要学校承认错误，要么解决你的问题。”又说，“你想让清华认错，是绝对不可能的！”谈话不欢而散。
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我有个问题: 在清华和人谈话是需要在校招待所吗? 为什么不在学校办公室? 清华的传统是什么?
Here is some info about 清华招待所（丙所）, 丙所：全部为套间，价格最低1200元/套，最高2600元/套. 6、详细情况请电话咨询：62784943
这说明丙所在清华颇具档次.. 那么是否说明当时来和清华学校领导班子谈话的人物是有来头的呢? 单和孙维,及她父母谈话是不需要这么规格的待遇吧?
1999年杨振宁院士住在丙所.
1999年幼儿园落成典礼上，杨振宁院士盛赞幼儿园设施先进和环境优美，"已达到国际水平"。他说，住在丙所（招待所），能看到8岁到15岁时上学的"成志学校"， 儿时生活在清华园的他现在又回到清华园，仿佛人生走了一圈。他对清华有着特别深的感情，会上他更即兴唱了一首儿时的歌曲"蝴蝶姑娘你在哪里……"，意外的惊喜感动的到会听众报以热烈掌声。
丙所是外国专家住的地方，当然是清华校内档次最高的。里面有会客室，另外离校机关工字厅也很近。
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这哪是谈话，这分明是“首长接见”嘛！如果只有小小孙维，清华领导可是犯不上到档次最高的“招待所”。
丙所：全部为套间，价格最低1200元/套，最高2600元/套-----这在当年的北京可是5星级宾馆的价格！
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-27 14:55:15编辑过]
没有看到录像的可以通过下面连接看到: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%E6%9C%B1%E4%BB%A4
你说咱俩争个什么劲， 反正都觉得凶手应该千刀万剐。区别只是你觉得凶手定了，我觉得还很难说。 其实孙到底是不是凶手，世界上最多两个人知道，孙和凶手（或者孙就是凶手，那就一个人清楚了）。 俺们不争了， 行不？ 千刀万剐这个也太残忍了, 我对于凶手只有痛恨, 至于她/铊/它/他到底要接受怎么样的惩罚才公平还是法律和老天(如果法律没有执行的话)说了算吧.
谢谢 客气
第一，如果她出国很多年了，为什么大家都还说她没能出国呢？为什么她家在北京的邻居前两年（大家说她结婚了，出国了的时候）还在网上说她住自己隔壁呢？莫非你在美国见到她了？ 第二，你看清楚，我说的是“当年”没有拿到毕业证书，不是一直没有拿到。 最后，我说的是我的观点，这个观点不影响任何人的声誉。你们口口声声SW是凶手，却没有任何实质性证据，那叫诬蔑！ 她在美国也是很多人说的，就跟她在国内一样，很多人说的，不得而知了，你不相信网上说的她是凶手，你却相信她所谓邻居说的她在国内？而且我记得她邻居可是出来指责她确实是凶手的，这个是他文章的目的，但是你也没有信。呵呵 她也不是当年没有拿到，她当年就拿了，晚了月份而已，非年份，她自己说的。 你看到我哪里认定她是凶手了，只是她是有最大怀疑的人，而且为什么她不站出来告大家污蔑？至少她可以告贝同学了，对不对？
你说咱俩争个什么劲， 反正都觉得凶手应该千刀万剐。区别只是你觉得凶手定了，我觉得还很难说。 其实孙到底是不是凶手，世界上最多两个人知道，孙和凶手（或者孙就是凶手，那就一个人清楚了）。 俺们不争了， 行不？ And one more, police
来， 我们讨论下， 你判定公安是97年确定孙为第一（应该也是唯一） 嫌疑人是依据什么？ 为什么从1995年4月报案到1997年4月历经两年才突然确定？ 孙的祖父1995年12月9日去世， 从1995年4月到他去世前， 你怎么知道公安没有个嫌疑人？ 凶手被车撞死前最好把事情交代清楚。 是啊,我也觉得,不可能1997年才定唯一嫌疑人. ,1995年的时候,报纸电视都在放, 我还记得,那时候,我是在中国青年报上看到朱令和贝志诚这个名字. 这么大的事情, 怎么可能1997年才定嫌疑人呢? 我们大家现在唯一能做的,就是多提供物质帮助, 帮助朱令和她的家人,让他们亲眼看见抓到真凶的那天.
呵呵，临睡觉最后一帖。
孙维，麻烦你告诉大家，去年二月份你全家出动，去公安14处干什么去了？无非是想了解些对你有利的证据，你拿到了吗？？？
你所说的公安机关对你作出解除嫌疑人的决定公安机关对你的评价是无耻，睁着眼睛说瞎话。书面材料大家都催了你很长时间了，你拿不出，因为根本就没有，而且没人愿意给你出，原因等着你自己说。
你在14处刚坐稳就拿笔和本开记，写了密密麻麻一大堆，有什么用吗？还记得公安怎么对你说的吗？---记什么记，最后出门前都得经我们审查。你记住了，你没有警方给你开的解除嫌疑人书，而且没人会给你开，因为你干的确德事，因为你不要脸而且太嚣张。
感谢东方时空节目组对朱令的报道，向节目制作人员致敬。而且驻华大使馆第一时间收看了节目，大家等着你再次被拒签。
睡觉去了，会继续关注案件。
(zt) 作者：长安街的红灯 回复日期：2007-1-28 00:07:07
呵呵，临睡觉最后一帖。
孙维，麻烦你告诉大家，去年二月份你全家出动，去公安14处干什么去了？无非是想了解些对你有利的证据，你拿到了吗？？？
你所说的公安机关对你作出解除嫌疑人的决定公安机关对你的评价是无耻，睁着眼睛说瞎话。书面材料大家都催了你很长时间了，你拿不出，因为根本就没有，而且没人愿意给你出，原因等着你自己说。
你在14处刚坐稳就拿笔和本开记，写了密密麻麻一大堆，有什么用吗？还记得公安怎么对你说的吗？---记什么记，最后出门前都得经我们审查。你记住了，你没有警方给你开的解除嫌疑人书，而且没人会给你开，因为你干的确德事，因为你不要脸而且太嚣张。
感谢东方时空节目组对朱令的报道，向节目制作人员致敬。而且驻华大使馆第一时间收看了节目，大家等着你再次被拒签。
睡觉去了，会继续关注案件。
有LINK吗?
一、几个未中毒女生间绝对会有猜忌，不安和恐惧的心情会在凶手之外的其他几个人心里产生。二次中毒，嫌疑最大的就是寝室内部人员，如果我不是凶手，我绝对会对其他同学有所怀疑、防范。可以想见的就是这个寝室女生间的关系绝对不会再想以前那样紧密和亲密。
二、如果我不是凶手，而本寝室女生又被广泛认为有重大嫌疑的情况下，当有人指出寝室内某人是凶手时，我绝对不会积极地站出来说她不是。因
为第一，凶手是她，就可以排除是我的可能，能够洗清自己身上嫌疑难道不好吗？第二，因为上述所说的猜疑存在，因此再这种情况下应该没有人会义无反顾地积极
挺身而出为其他人的行为做担保。
最后，我想知道，为什么警方第一次排查会得出清华没有学生能够接触到铊的结论？询问过寝室成员吗？当最后被确诊的时候，是孙主动联想到实验室的铊还是警察排查出来的呢？寝室其他同学是否从一开始就知道孙能够接触到铊？
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-1-28 14:19:30编辑过]
孙维邻居说的东东, 你信一半不信一半的依据是什么? 为什么觉得他/她眼睛看的某部分是真的,而另一部分不是真的?
你的理解力是不是有问题？？？我说了，我觉得前一半是他看到的，所以我信，后一半是他分析出来的，我觉得没什么有力的证据来支持他的结论，所以我不信。换句话说，如果他说，我亲眼看到SW下毒，那我就信。
同意这个分析. 我也是从她们宿舍这几个女生的反应,太过一致的,坚定的维护SW,开始觉得SW是主谋,其它几个人是合谋. 她们宿舍这几个人的反应,太反常了. 我看了她们的通信，也是感觉毛骨悚然，有集体作案的怀疑。 不过细想好像也不太可能，我读大学的时候有个女同学摘了一朵花，被校卫队抓住就吓个半死，这几位当时也才二十岁左右，如果翻杀人案而且还能够一起成功通过公安人员的审查，可能性太小。 我觉得她们之间是利益关系。我以前读书和在国内工作的时候，周围有有来头的同学和同事，就连老师老板都阿谀奉迎，无所不用其极。同学同事里就更有低三下四的人。这几个女人，我感觉她们以前受过s家的关照，所以1）如果s不是凶手，她们当然是在以德报德。2）如果s是凶手，既然抓了又放了，可见她家势力之大，这条粗腿，更是抱住不放了。否则很难解释s对她们的操控。看看她的那几条do & don't. 有几个三十几岁，大学以上学历，尤其又是清华这种学校出来的女人，愿意如此被人颐指气使的？ 这个通信被泄露，我估计也是其中有人算计着觉得得不偿失了，所以把自己撇请出来（当然我更愿意相信是良心发现）。
现在公安局为什么还不立案呢?那孙的爷爷不也去世了么？ 她伯父还在啊