FDA前局长,现辉瑞董事会成员Dr. Gottlieb回答WHO提议辉瑞放弃疫苗知识产权

庚子
楼主 (北美华人网)
回答总的说来是躲避问题。他提到的理由就是现在疫苗生产的限速步骤不是知识产权,而是原材料。就算放弃了,也是新公司跟辉瑞和Moderna争夺有限的原材料供应,而且不见得有这两家公司有效率。 主持人还问到巴西疫情严重,能否先给巴西提供疫苗。Dr. Gottlieb简单回答说我们以后能做到,现在没这么多疫苗。
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-scott-gottlieb-discusses-coronavirus-on-face-the-nation-march-28-2021/ MARGARET BRENNAN: On the World Health Organization, I want to add — nothing against celebrity endorsements of vaccines — on the World Health Organization and what Dr. Fauci was saying, I know you must be looking at this. He said, yes, the White House is talking about it, but he has no indication of what policies there might be regarding patent protections and pharmaceutical companies who make COVID vaccines. The World Health Organization chief has endorsed this idea of- of lifting it in order to help some developing countries get access. What is the implication if that happens? DR GOTTLIEB: Well, look, I think the implication is you're going to provide disincentives to the future, but the reality is just looking at the practicality of it, the rate-limiting step here is not the intellectual property around these vaccines. These companies are producing, including Pfizer, the company I'm going to board of, as much as they can. The rate limiting factor here is the raw ingredients, the inputs to making those vaccines. There's just a limited global supply of those highly specialized inputs. If you appropriate the intellectual property and give it to a bunch of other companies to try to make these vaccines, they're not going to be able to make them efficiently. And they're not going to be able to stand up the supply because they don't have the supply chain either. If they manage to secure it is just going to come at the expense of companies like Pfizer, Moderna that are making these vaccines far more efficiently. I think what we have to be doing is trying to get more resources into expanding that manufacturing capacity. This really is an opportunity for President Biden to do what President Bush did around the PEPFAR program and create a global campaign to try to supply vaccine around the world using the U.S. intellectual property. These companies have already donated vaccine. They'd be willing to provide more to low- and middle-income countries if the US government would backstop some of the legal protections around doing that. So there are opportunities here to dramatically expand global supply. Unfortunately, I think just giving away our intellectual property is going to be an empty promise. It's not going to result in more vaccine in these countries.
chmod999
如果确实原材料是bottle neck的话 那make sense啊 放弃知识产权神马的 某国最喜欢了 立马贴上自主研发的标签 x又赢啊
q
qwerty_sun
如果确实原材料是bottle neck的话 那make sense啊 放弃知识产权神马的 某国最喜欢了 立马贴上自主研发的标签 x又赢啊
chmod999 发表于 2021-03-29 00:37

这也能和中国扯上关系?你太牛比了。
G
Grace222
主持人是觉得美国现在没疫情了?
G
Grace222
这也能和中国扯上关系?你太牛比了。
qwerty_sun 发表于 2021-03-29 00:39

一说某国,你就能迅速联想到中国,你这是有多辱华
bigjohn123456

系统提示:若遇到视频无法播放请点击下方链接
https://twitter.com/i/videos/1374616782816694278
庚子
主持人是觉得美国现在没疫情了?
Grace222 发表于 2021-03-29 00:41

很多左派一心拿出美国所有的好东西拯救世界。只是现在美国还没有解决自己的问题,能不能现实一点搞好自己的事情再说? Biden在疫苗上还是比较保守的,目前没有往海外乱撒疫苗,说明他还没有老糊涂。
Whittier
简直是“道德绑架”
bigjohn123456
如果确实原材料是bottle neck的话 那make sense啊 放弃知识产权神马的 某国最喜欢了 立马贴上自主研发的标签 x又赢啊
chmod999 发表于 2021-03-29 00:37

美国放弃知识产权是应该的,
因为, 其中一个中国人, 在mRNA疫苗研发中居功至伟!!!
美国不能抢走那么多credit, 这不make sense!!! 不道德!!! 如华春莹女士所说, 罔顾人权!
https://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2656580 【环球时报-环球网报道 记者 白云怡 胡雨薇】美国前总统特朗普曾多次把辉瑞等新冠肺炎疫苗的研发吹嘘成自己的“功绩”,并借此再次煽动美国社会的反华情绪——“那些所谓的伟大历史学家们,你们一定要铭记,这些将能终结‘中国瘟疫’的伟大发现,都是在我监督下产生的”,他曾在推特上这样写道。然而,很多人不知道的一个真相是:倘若没有一位中国科学家的努力,辉瑞、莫德纳等新冠疫苗的研发或许不会这么顺利。
lovedarren
等我自己和家人打完疫苗了,我也可以不管剩下的人,装个好人呼吁美国援助第三世界国家的。

q
qwerty_sun
一说某国,你就能迅速联想到中国,你这是有多辱华
Grace222 发表于 2021-03-29 00:42

你明明知道自己想说谁,明眼人说点敞亮话。哆哆嗦嗦的有意思吗?
Sisyphus
美国放弃知识产权是应该的,
因为, 其中一个中国人, 在mRNA疫苗研发中居功至伟!!!
美国不能抢走那么多credit, 这不make sense!!! 不道德!!! 如华春莹女士所说, 罔顾人权!
https://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2656580 【环球时报-环球网报道 记者 白云怡 胡雨薇】美国前总统特朗普曾多次把辉瑞等新冠肺炎疫苗的研发吹嘘成自己的“功绩”,并借此再次煽动美国社会的反华情绪——“那些所谓的伟大历史学家们,你们一定要铭记,这些将能终结‘中国瘟疫’的伟大发现,都是在我监督下产生的”,他曾在推特上这样写道。然而,很多人不知道的一个真相是:倘若没有一位中国科学家的努力,辉瑞、莫德纳等新冠疫苗的研发或许不会这么顺利。
bigjohn123456 发表于 2021-03-29 00:55

要点逼脸,人科学家什么时候说过自己是中国人了?
bigjohn123456
要点逼脸,人科学家什么时候说过自己是中国人了?
Sisyphus 发表于 2021-03-29 01:04

环球时报说了:中国科学家

centenario
想起国内怎么看待美国低价转让乙肝疫苗产权的
Dk320

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https://twitter.com/i/videos/1374616782816694278

bigjohn123456 发表于 2021-03-29 00:45

哈哈,太精彩了。
purpledee
这种东西我不相信中国做不出来。。。当初没用上mRNA估计是觉得安全性不够吧。

Jokey_x
美国放弃知识产权是应该的,
因为, 其中一个中国人, 在mRNA疫苗研发中居功至伟!!!
美国不能抢走那么多credit, 这不make sense!!! 不道德!!! 如华春莹女士所说, 罔顾人权!
https://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2656580 【环球时报-环球网报道 记者 白云怡 胡雨薇】美国前总统特朗普曾多次把辉瑞等新冠肺炎疫苗的研发吹嘘成自己的“功绩”,并借此再次煽动美国社会的反华情绪——“那些所谓的伟大历史学家们,你们一定要铭记,这些将能终结‘中国瘟疫’的伟大发现,都是在我监督下产生的”,他曾在推特上这样写道。然而,很多人不知道的一个真相是:倘若没有一位中国科学家的努力,辉瑞、莫德纳等新冠疫苗的研发或许不会这么顺利。
bigjohn123456 发表于 2021-03-29 00:55

对不起,全世界都不吃这一套
santal
这种东西我不相信中国做不出来。。。当初没用上mRNA估计是觉得安全性不够吧。


purpledee 发表于 2021-03-29 01:36

你这个涂脂抹粉的五毛当然要说不相信
edge2.0
回复 15楼centenario的帖子
说是特么为了以后占领市场,摧毁中国自我研发潜力。
扶苏
环球时报说了:中国科学家


bigjohn123456 发表于 2021-03-29 01:05

中国科学家?拿中国薪水,为中国服务的?
扶苏
WHO真够那个的。如果你说让美国给第三世界提供疫苗,倒也是一回事。拿出配方,这是什么操作。是不要鸡蛋,而是要下蛋的鸡的意思吗?
s
shoppingisfun
who给谁服务的大家都知道, 陈薇的mrna疫苗没下文了,着急了吧。
noshock
who给谁服务的大家都知道, 陈薇的mrna疫苗没下文了,着急了吧。
shoppingisfun 发表于 2021-03-29 03:38

陈薇的疫苗好像去年4月就在CCTV上公开注射,大家知道不,我本来以为军委主席及下属都要打的。现在打了几个人?
梅干茶泡饭
如果确实原材料是bottle neck的话 那make sense啊 放弃知识产权神马的 某国最喜欢了 立马贴上自主研发的标签 x又赢啊
chmod999 发表于 2021-03-29 00:37

我其实很好奇紧缺的原材料是什么 其他的制药啥的能不能援助一些啊 紧着疫苗生产
sousuo
回复 3楼qwerty_sun的帖子
煞笔 臭气熏天还不让别人说
c
cxfwan1979
这种东西我不相信中国做不出来。。。当初没用上mRNA估计是觉得安全性不够吧。


purpledee 发表于 2021-03-29 01:36

那是一定的,吃不到的葡萄,永远都是因为酸啊
greenh1212
去年武汉爆发的时候Gilead拿出了remdesivir 的配方 后来发生什么大家都看到了 有人第一时间抢注了专利 用了几个月后和WHO一起不遗余力的批判。对于一种新病毒 在没有任何特效药的情况下 任何人给你多一种挽救生命的机会就deserve 这种回报?如果拿出疫苗的配方不知道那些没脸没皮的人和组织会怎么黑。
cafe1123
回答总的说来是躲避问题。他提到的理由就是现在疫苗生产的限速步骤不是知识产权,而是原材料。就算放弃了,也是新公司跟辉瑞和Moderna争夺有限的原材料供应,而且不见得有这两家公司有效率。 主持人还问到巴西疫情严重,能否先给巴西提供疫苗。Dr. Gottlieb简单回答说我们以后能做到,现在没这么多疫苗。
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-scott-gottlieb-discusses-coronavirus-on-face-the-nation-march-28-2021/ MARGARET BRENNAN: On the World Health Organization, I want to add — nothing against celebrity endorsements of vaccines — on the World Health Organization and what Dr. Fauci was saying, I know you must be looking at this. He said, yes, the White House is talking about it, but he has no indication of what policies there might be regarding patent protections and pharmaceutical companies who make COVID vaccines. The World Health Organization chief has endorsed this idea of- of lifting it in order to help some developing countries get access. What is the implication if that happens? DR GOTTLIEB: Well, look, I think the implication is you''re going to provide disincentives to the future, but the reality is just looking at the practicality of it, the rate-limiting step here is not the intellectual property around these vaccines. These companies are producing, including Pfizer, the company I''m going to board of, as much as they can. The rate limiting factor here is the raw ingredients, the inputs to making those vaccines. There''s just a limited global supply of those highly specialized inputs. If you appropriate the intellectual property and give it to a bunch of other companies to try to make these vaccines, they''re not going to be able to make them efficiently. And they''re not going to be able to stand up the supply because they don''t have the supply chain either. If they manage to secure it is just going to come at the expense of companies like Pfizer, Moderna that are making these vaccines far more efficiently. I think what we have to be doing is trying to get more resources into expanding that manufacturing capacity. This really is an opportunity for President Biden to do what President Bush did around the PEPFAR program and create a global campaign to try to supply vaccine around the world using the U.S. intellectual property. These companies have already donated vaccine. They''d be willing to provide more to low- and middle-income countries if the US government would backstop some of the legal protections around doing that. So there are opportunities here to dramatically expand global supply. Unfortunately, I think just giving away our intellectual property is going to be an empty promise. It''s not going to result in more vaccine in these countries.
庚子 发表于 2021-03-29 00:30

WHO 病毒溯源有这么积极卖力就好了。
cafe1123
一说某国,你就能迅速联想到中国,你这是有多辱华
Grace222 发表于 2021-03-29 00:42

看来是有的人心里有鬼,老是疑神信鬼。和阿Q不让别人说亮差不多。
qqyxgz
去年武汉爆发的时候Gilead拿出了remdesivir 的配方 后来发生什么大家都看到了 有人第一时间抢注了专利 用了几个月后和WHO一起不遗余力的批判。对于一种新病毒 在没有任何特效药的情况下 任何人给你多一种挽救生命的机会就deserve 这种回报?如果拿出疫苗的配方不知道那些没脸没皮的人和组织会怎么黑。
greenh1212 发表于 2021-03-29 07:58


国内不已经开始搞核酸疫苗了吗, 弯道超车很快的
snail
who真是不要脸。这种问题回避回答已经给面子了,应该直接说我的东西,放不放弃关你屁事
S
SWMCcc
一说某国,你就能迅速联想到中国,你这是有多辱华
Grace222 发表于 2021-03-29 00:42

手动点赞
plainlake
这疫情要是持续几年,公布配方之后,原材料要是被抢购一空,就惨了。
cafe1123
中国科学家?拿中国薪水,为中国服务的?
扶苏 发表于 2021-03-29 02:06

一个打工的博士后,就是科学家了,科学家曾经一个多么高大上的名称。
EEswine
回复 1楼庚子的帖子
WHO拿那么多funding,也没说自己研究出点啥,也没说把自己用的疫苗放弃给第三世界国家,咋就知道慷他人之慨呢?
cafe1123
回复 1楼庚子的帖子
WHO拿那么多funding,也没说自己研究出点啥,也没说把自己用的疫苗放弃给第三世界国家,咋就知道慷他人之慨呢?
EEswine 发表于 2021-03-29 09:10

WHO的说法就像把一只下蛋的母鸡杀了,免费分给大家吃了,自己也分一些。至于以后还有没有蛋吃,那就不管了。
s
suifengsui
总想着拿免费的,以后会有哪个医药公司投钱大力开发呢?保护专利,和有能力生产疫苗的各国合作,专利费少要点,降低成本,干嘛一定要人家放弃专利呢
JustMyself
由于某些无下限的团体和国家,不应该放弃知识产权。可以按照本国,盟友,贫穷国家,有基本道德的对手,无耻国家的顺序提供疫苗成品。
bigjohn123456
强生打算向非洲和第三世界国家提供大量疫苗,WHO应该感到满意。 如果还强迫放弃mRNA疫苗专利,那应该是另有打算了。。。
https://www.ft.com/content/21977f6f-7679-4e4c-ab2d-9fbfc7ca842c
Johnson & Johnson to supply Africa with 220m Covid vaccines Neil Munshi in Lagos The African Union has signed a deal with Johnson & Johnson to supply 220m doses of its single-shot Covid-19 vaccine to the group''s 55 member states starting in the third quarter of this year. The extra doses will bolster efforts by the World Heath Organization and Gavi-backed Covax initiative, which plan to supply the continent with hundreds of millions doses. The rollout in most African countries has begun in the past few weeks. The deal between J&J''s Janssen Pharmaceutica and the AU''s African Vaccine Acquisition Trust can be expanded to an extra 180m doses in 2022.  J&J last year signed an advanced purchase deal to supply 500m doses to Covax. But the initiative took a hit last week when India barred vaccine exports, including the AstraZeneca jab produced by the Serum Institute of India, which is a major supplier for the programme. Africa has been less affected by the pandemic than other parts of the world. The continent has recorded 4.19m cases and 112,000 deaths from a population of about 1.2bn.
庚子
强生打算向非洲和第三世界国家提供大量疫苗,WHO应该感到满意。 如果还强迫放弃mRNA疫苗专利,那应该是另有打算了,比如某负责任大国在背后运作。。。
https://www.ft.com/content/21977f6f-7679-4e4c-ab2d-9fbfc7ca842c
Johnson & Johnson to supply Africa with 220m Covid vaccines Neil Munshi in Lagos The African Union has signed a deal with Johnson & Johnson to supply 220m doses of its single-shot Covid-19 vaccine to the group's 55 member states starting in the third quarter of this year. The extra doses will bolster efforts by the World Heath Organization and Gavi-backed Covax initiative, which plan to supply the continent with hundreds of millions doses. The rollout in most African countries has begun in the past few weeks. The deal between J&J's Janssen Pharmaceutica and the AU's African Vaccine Acquisition Trust can be expanded to an extra 180m doses in 2022.  J&J last year signed an advanced purchase deal to supply 500m doses to Covax. But the initiative took a hit last week when India barred vaccine exports, including the AstraZeneca jab produced by the Serum Institute of India, which is a major supplier for the programme. Africa has been less affected by the pandemic than other parts of the world. The continent has recorded 4.19m cases and 112,000 deaths from a population of about 1.2bn.
bigjohn123456 发表于 2021-03-29 10:47

强生应该在美国国内市场份额不大,要在世界市场抢食了。一针,外加价格比较便宜,应该会很有市场。
chickenrib
秀才和流氓理论,怎么可能会赢?流氓根本就不讲理。
mymyah
这也能和中国扯上关系?你太牛比了。
qwerty_sun 发表于 2021-03-29 00:39

你什么意思啊,这么看扁中国啊?为什么总爱把坏事跟中国拉在一起啊
mymyah
回复 1楼庚子的帖子
WHO拿那么多funding,也没说自己研究出点啥,也没说把自己用的疫苗放弃给第三世界国家,咋就知道慷他人之慨呢?
EEswine 发表于 2021-03-29 09:10

那得先看看WHO的那帮人,不是这个组织,拿的谁的钱
elleyy
单纯说知识产权就是为了保护别人辛辛苦苦的劳动果实。who完全可以给不发达国家弄点补贴啥的而不是要求疫苗厂商打开钱袋子去撒。
Sayfreely
WHO真够那个的。如果你说让美国给第三世界提供疫苗,倒也是一回事。拿出配方,这是什么操作。是不要鸡蛋,而是要下蛋的鸡的意思吗?
扶苏 发表于 2021-03-29 02:09

well said
Jokey_x
中国科学家?拿中国薪水,为中国服务的?
扶苏 发表于 2021-03-29 02:06

毕竟混球时报
Jokey_x
环球时报说了:中国科学家


bigjohn123456 发表于 2021-03-29 01:05

毕竟 混球时报
Sayfreely
总想着拿免费的,以后会有哪个医药公司投钱大力开发呢?保护专利,和有能力生产疫苗的各国合作,专利费少要点,降低成本,干嘛一定要人家放弃专利呢
suifengsui 发表于 2021-03-29 10:06

借疫情抢劫
laurenplus
单纯说知识产权就是为了保护别人辛辛苦苦的劳动果实。who完全可以给不发达国家弄点补贴啥的而不是要求疫苗厂商打开钱袋子去撒。
elleyy 发表于 2021-03-29 14:23

who 补贴? 钱哪里来
OvertheRainbow9
WHO这是打算下山摘桃子来了。话说这次疫情爆发以来WHO都起过些什么正面积极有效措施和作用?我怎么想不起来?只拿钱不干活还打算到处摘桃子?
OvertheRainbow9
Who这个组织在疫情初期还有机会不导致全球蔓延的关键时刻,在全世界都等它做判断的时候,拖延和模糊疫情的严重性给各国防疫造成严重的混乱,延误关键时机,建议每年给这个组织上供经费的应该各个国家和组织联合起来告Who的负责人玩忽职守导致全球疫情蔓延。
酒酒_
美国已经给covavax捐了那么多钱,第三世界国家拿钱买美国疫苗就可以了,也可以买其它国家疫苗自由选择 专利是私产,凭什么让企业放弃,强盗逻辑
ssxx18
我觉得辉瑞说的非常make sense.可惜有人总往政治上套。
ssxx18
简单说,原材料就那么多,应该保证供应给最有生产效率的公司。专利转让后,让那些新手加入,和有成熟生产线的公司争夺有限的原材料,全部产能当然会降低。
闲情
这要不是内贼福齐老头当初说可以公开给世界共享,估计WHO还不敢这么堂而皇之的要!
天天周末
黑客到处攻击各个疫苗研究没做到的事情,WHO来帮忙了 “明抢暗夺”新解
Haribough
美国已经给covavax捐了那么多钱,第三世界国家拿钱买美国疫苗就可以了,也可以买其它国家疫苗自由选择 专利是私产,凭什么让企业放弃,强盗逻辑

酒酒_ 发表于 2021-03-29 17:11

当年小儿麻痹疫苗的专利是发明者主动放弃的。国家没有资格要求企业放弃专利。
m
meimeitou2
这个东西人家喜欢给跟某厚着脸皮要完全是俩概念z
Biu_Biu
这也能和中国扯上关系?你太牛比了。
qwerty_sun 发表于 2021-03-29 00:39

别人说的是印度,你激动个毛。
看来你心里认定一定是中国
麦芽糖仔
你明明知道自己想说谁,明眼人说点敞亮话。哆哆嗦嗦的有意思吗?
qwerty_sun 发表于 2021-03-29 01:02

她还不是为了照顾你那玻璃心吗?你硬往枪口上冲,那么就明说了。为了防止中华人民共和国弯道超车!
庚子
回复 1楼庚子的帖子
Dr. Gottlieb在华尔街杂志发表了一个opinion,提到政府受到压力要求suspend patent protections。他认为Pepfar(President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief)是一个在不放弃专利的前提下可以接受的方案。Pepfar的历史来由是美国的艾滋病鸡尾酒疗法出来之后,布什政府也受到压力让放弃知识产权,这样可以让其他公司(比如印度公司)生产仿制药。当时Dr. Gottlieb作为FDA的局长担心印度仿制药的效果。后来美国药物界和政府部门提出一个方案,就是药厂自己生产廉价成本的组合药(感觉就是代替印度生产仿制药),但是不经过昂贵的临床试验,然后美国政府用非洲基金买下这些廉价药送给非洲。现在Dr. Gottlieb提倡疫苗也采取Pepfar方案。
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-lessons-from-bushs-effort-against-aids-11616959045?mod=e2tw To vaccinate the developing world against Covid-19, consider the lessons of AIDS. In 2004 that disease was burning across Africa. Treatments were available but expensive, and everyone wanted to expand Africa’s access to them. Drug-industry critics on Capitol Hill pressed President Bush to solve the problem by breaking Western manufacturers’ patents. He said no and came up with a better plan. At the time, I worked at the Food and Drug Administration. Generic-drug makers, mostly in India, promised cheap versions of AIDS drugs, but there was reason to worry about their quality. My colleagues and I thought that patients in Africa deserved the same first-rate treatments Americans got. The drug industry worked with government to develop their AIDS medicines into cheaper combination pills. The FDA put these products through a process for “tentative” FDA approval without the expense of full-blown clinical trials. The U.S. government purchased these pills in bulk and distributed them widely in Africa. This process became known as the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, or Pepfar. This program slowed the spread of AIDS and helped save millions of lives. Many of the AIDS drugs that foreign drug makers wanted to produce by ignoring U.S. intellectual property were later found to be subpotent and adulterated. Had the Bush administration used American funds to support the production and distribution of these counterfeit pills, it could have been a public-health disaster, leaving millions of people partially treated with inferior medicine.
bigjohn123456
US business groups, including pharma industry lobbyists, are urging the Biden administration to resist pressure from developing nations to suspend intellectual property protections for Covid-19 vaccines.
https://www.ft.com/content/9b544e07-d173-4d51-8f4a-0dd970c866e6
sizhang
五毛能不能滚出去
lspringa
去年武汉爆发的时候Gilead拿出了remdesivir 的配方 后来发生什么大家都看到了 有人第一时间抢注了专利 用了几个月后和WHO一起不遗余力的批判。对于一种新病毒 在没有任何特效药的情况下 任何人给你多一种挽救生命的机会就deserve 这种回报?如果拿出疫苗的配方不知道那些没脸没皮的人和组织会怎么黑。
greenh1212 发表于 2021-03-29 07:58

一丁点感恩之心都没有,吃相要多难看有多难看
lspringa
WHO不干人事儿!疫情以来跟个二流子土匪似的,不起作用就算了,还帮倒忙,不要脸!
q
qwerty_sun
她还不是为了照顾你那玻璃心吗?你硬往枪口上冲,那么就明说了。为了防止中华人民共和国弯道超车!
麦芽糖仔 发表于 2021-03-29 20:33

你自己信吗?八杆子打不着拐着弯骂,你要是戳破了那点小心思- -马上大跳起来,抓到了,自己对号入座。看我多聪明多牛逼。 阿贵的把戏。玩了快3千年了。
z
zzsummer
这种东西我不相信中国做不出来。。。当初没用上mRNA估计是觉得安全性不够吧。


purpledee 发表于 2021-03-29 01:36

是啊,肯定能做出来的。那就赶紧做呗