China Refuses to Give WHO Raw Data on Early Covid-19 Cases Officials withhold personalized information on patients that could help determine pandemic’s origins https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-refuses-to-give-who-raw-data-on-early-covid-19-cases-11613150580?mod=hp_lead_pos4 BEIJING—Chinese authorities refused to provide World Health Organization investigators with raw, personalized data on early Covid-19 cases that could help them determine how and when the coronavirus first began to spread in China, according to WHO investigators who described heated exchanges over the lack of detail. The Chinese authorities turned down requests to provide such data on 174 cases of Covid-19 that they have identified from the early phase of the outbreak in the Chinese city of Wuhan in December 2019. The investigators are part of a WHO team that this week completed a monthlong mission in China aimed at determining the origins of the pandemic. Chinese officials and scientists provided their own extensive summaries and analysis of data on the cases, said the WHO team members. They also supplied aggregated data and analysis on retrospective searches through medical records in the months before the Wuhan outbreak was identified, saying that they had found no evidence of the virus. But the WHO team wasn’t allowed to view the raw underlying data on those retrospective studies, which could allow them to conduct their own analysis on how early and how extensively the virus began to spread in China, the team members said. Member states typically provide such data as part of WHO investigations, said team members. “They showed us a couple of examples, but that’s not the same as doing all of them, which is standard epidemiological investigation,” said Dominic Dwyer, an Australian microbiologist on the WHO team. “So then, you know, the interpretation of that data becomes more limited from our point of view, although the other side might see it as being quite good.” China’s National Health Commission and foreign ministry didn’t respond to requests for comment.
Lab Theory ‘Extremely Unlikely’: What WHO Team Learned in Wuhan The World Health Organization’s mission to Wuhan said the coronavirus most likely spread naturally to humans through an animal. WSJ’s Jeremy Page reports on what scientists learned during their weekslong investigation. Photo: Thomas Peter/Reuters China’s reluctance to provide the data adds to concerns among many foreign governments and scientists about a lack of transparency in China’s approach to the hunt for the pandemic’s origins. The U.S. State Department said this week it wants to see data underlying the WHO probe. The WHO investigation has probed whether Covid-19 was spreading in China before early December 2019, when the Chinese authorities said the first patient with Covid-19 symptoms was reported. Earlier detection of the disease could have halted its spread before it exploded into a world-wide pandemic that has so far killed more than 2.3 million people. About 90 hospital patients had Covid-19-like symptoms in central China in the two months before the Wuhan outbreak was identified, according to WHO investigators, The Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday. Chinese authorities performed antibody tests on that group more than a year later, when antibodies may have subsided to undetectable levels. All were negative. The lost time leaves researchers unable to say whether those patients may have been Covid-19 cases or were suffering from a similar respiratory disease. Medical workers in Wuhan, China, transported a patient on Jan. 25, 2020. PHOTO: AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE/GETTY IMAGE The WHO lacks the power to compel member governments—who elect the leaders and fund the budgets of the United Nations agency—to furnish it with data. That leaves it dependent on cooperation from China to help the WHO in its hunt for the origin of the pandemic. The refusal of the Chinese authorities to provide raw, personalized data on the 174 early Covid-19 cases, and on people with respiratory and other illnesses in the months before December 2019, led to heated discussions between the WHO team and their Chinese counterparts during the mission, said Dr. Dwyer. “Sometimes emotions have run really high,” Thea Fischer, a Danish epidemiologist among the WHO investigators, said on Tuesday. “I am a scientist and I trust data. I trust documented evidence based on data, I don’t just trust what anyone tells me.” Dr. Fischer said she had seen no inconsistencies in the data that were made available in Wuhan but couldn’t undertake a deeper analysis without seeing the raw data. The provision of such data would be the case in most other countries, she said. No agreement had been reached for China to provide the raw data by the time the WHO team left Wuhan this week, Dr. Dwyer said. Marion Koopmans, a Dutch virologist who was also part of the team, said that the team’s Chinese counterparts had done extensive work involving hundreds of investigators from several institutes. The team, she said, had limited time and could attempt to obtain such information later. “In these instances what you try to do is you make the assumption that everybody is operating in good faith,” said Ian Lipkin, a professor of epidemiology at Columbia University who wasn’t part of the WHO team. “You don’t want to close future access to information that might be critical.” Peter Ben Embarek, leader of the WHO investigative team, said on Tuesday that the virus could have entered China in frozen food imports. PHOTO: NG HAN GUAN/ASSOCIATED PRESS The WHO team’s leader, Peter Ben Embarek, said on Tuesday that the virus most likely spread to a human from an animal, rather than from a laboratory accident, and could have come from outside China via frozen food. Beijing—which has repeatedly suggested that the virus came from outside China, most likely through imported frozen food—welcomed the findings and called for other countries, including the U.S., to invite the WHO to conduct similar investigations. But the U.S. said it saw no alternative source and called for greater transparency from China. Liang Wannian, head of the Covid-19 expert panel for China’s National Health Commission, said Tuesday that Chinese authorities had tested blood samples for antibodies and checked medical records from 233 hospitals and clinics but hadn’t found evidence of the virus spreading around Wuhan before early December 2019. WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said that the U.N. agency hadn’t ruled out any hypothesis. “I want to clarify that all hypotheses remain open and require further study,” he said in a meeting with diplomats on Thursday. WHO team members said they are still seeking access to other potential sources of information in China, including blood banks and stored samples from patients with respiratory diseases, which could reveal if the virus was spreading before December 2019. They had sought wastewater samples from central China to check if the virus could be detected in sewage from late 2019, but were told those had been discarded, per standard policy, after a month, said Dr. Koopmans. Dr. Dwyer said Chinese authorities had provided influenza surveillance data from before December 2019 but only from one children’s hospital and one general hospital. The authorities told the WHO team that its hospitals generally didn’t store physical samples from patients with respiratory diseases. “They said they were destroyed and so on. You know, I guess one accepts that on face value,” Dr. Dwyer said. He said Chinese authorities initially told the team they couldn’t conduct retrospective testing of samples in blood banks except in certain specific legal situations—a common policy in many countries. “It doesn’t stop people from putting in an application through the appropriate ethics and regulatory authorities to do such a study because this is clearly for a disease of public-health importance,” said Dr. Dwyer. ”I don’t know what the political or the legal pressure is of doing that. But I think it’s something that should be done.” He and Dr. Fischer said that a Wuhan blood bank had ultimately agreed to join a future study looking for antibodies in samples from a representative group of healthy donors, such as those that have already been conducted in many other countries. “If you really want to look at how early the virus started circulating in the population, you have to work systematically, structurally and for instance look at serum studies, blood studies, of a representative selection of the population over time,” Dr. Fischer said. “The virus has definitely circulated in the population before the first clinically serious cases became known,” she added.
回复 1楼bigjohn123456的帖子 https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/965966786/world-health-organization-finishes-investigation-into-origins-of-covid-19 World Health Organization Finishes Investigation Into Origins Of COVID-19 SHAPIRO: Explain to us how that would work - the virus coming through frozen foods. DOUCLEFF: Yes, so this is a hypothesis that many scientists have dismissed repeatedly, but some Chinese scientists believe the virus has been imported into China several times through frozen meats - not like the pizzas that come to the grocery store but meat of infected wild animals. Dr. Peter Embarek, who led the WHO team, says this needs to be studied more. WTF, why the countries exporting Frozen meat to China had the cases months after Wuhan?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-refuses-to-give-who-raw-data-on-early-covid-19-cases-11613150580?mod=hp_lead_pos4
BEIJING—Chinese authorities refused to provide World Health Organization investigators with raw, personalized data on early Covid-19 cases that could help them determine how and when the coronavirus first began to spread in China, according to WHO investigators who described heated exchanges over the lack of detail. The Chinese authorities turned down requests to provide such data on 174 cases of Covid-19 that they have identified from the early phase of the outbreak in the Chinese city of Wuhan in December 2019. The investigators are part of a WHO team that this week completed a monthlong mission in China aimed at determining the origins of the pandemic. Chinese officials and scientists provided their own extensive summaries and analysis of data on the cases, said the WHO team members. They also supplied aggregated data and analysis on retrospective searches through medical records in the months before the Wuhan outbreak was identified, saying that they had found no evidence of the virus. But the WHO team wasn’t allowed to view the raw underlying data on those retrospective studies, which could allow them to conduct their own analysis on how early and how extensively the virus began to spread in China, the team members said. Member states typically provide such data as part of WHO investigations, said team members. “They showed us a couple of examples, but that’s not the same as doing all of them, which is standard epidemiological investigation,” said Dominic Dwyer, an Australian microbiologist on the WHO team. “So then, you know, the interpretation of that data becomes more limited from our point of view, although the other side might see it as being quite good.” China’s National Health Commission and foreign ministry didn’t respond to requests for comment.
The refusal of the Chinese authorities to provide raw, personalized data on the 174 early Covid-19 cases, and on people with respiratory and other illnesses in the months before December 2019, led to heated discussions between the WHO team and their Chinese counterparts during the mission, said Dr. Dwyer. “Sometimes emotions have run really high,” Thea Fischer, a Danish epidemiologist among the WHO investigators, said on Tuesday. “I am a scientist and I trust data. I trust documented evidence based on data, I don’t just trust what anyone tells me.” Dr. Fischer said she had seen no inconsistencies in the data that were made available in Wuhan but couldn’t undertake a deeper analysis without seeing the raw data. The provision of such data would be the case in most other countries, she said. No agreement had been reached for China to provide the raw data by the time the WHO team left Wuhan this week, Dr. Dwyer said. Marion Koopmans, a Dutch virologist who was also part of the team, said that the team’s Chinese counterparts had done extensive work involving hundreds of investigators from several institutes. The team, she said, had limited time and could attempt to obtain such information later. “In these instances what you try to do is you make the assumption that everybody is operating in good faith,” said Ian Lipkin, a professor of epidemiology at Columbia University who wasn’t part of the WHO team. “You don’t want to close future access to information that might be critical.”
But the U.S. said it saw no alternative source and called for greater transparency from China. Liang Wannian, head of the Covid-19 expert panel for China’s National Health Commission, said Tuesday that Chinese authorities had tested blood samples for antibodies and checked medical records from 233 hospitals and clinics but hadn’t found evidence of the virus spreading around Wuhan before early December 2019. WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said that the U.N. agency hadn’t ruled out any hypothesis. “I want to clarify that all hypotheses remain open and require further study,” he said in a meeting with diplomats on Thursday. WHO team members said they are still seeking access to other potential sources of information in China, including blood banks and stored samples from patients with respiratory diseases, which could reveal if the virus was spreading before December 2019. They had sought wastewater samples from central China to check if the virus could be detected in sewage from late 2019, but were told those had been discarded, per standard policy, after a month, said Dr. Koopmans. Dr. Dwyer said Chinese authorities had provided influenza surveillance data from before December 2019 but only from one children’s hospital and one general hospital. The authorities told the WHO team that its hospitals generally didn’t store physical samples from patients with respiratory diseases. “They said they were destroyed and so on. You know, I guess one accepts that on face value,” Dr. Dwyer said. He said Chinese authorities initially told the team they couldn’t conduct retrospective testing of samples in blood banks except in certain specific legal situations—a common policy in many countries. “It doesn’t stop people from putting in an application through the appropriate ethics and regulatory authorities to do such a study because this is clearly for a disease of public-health importance,” said Dr. Dwyer. ”I don’t know what the political or the legal pressure is of doing that. But I think it’s something that should be done.” He and Dr. Fischer said that a Wuhan blood bank had ultimately agreed to join a future study looking for antibodies in samples from a representative group of healthy donors, such as those that have already been conducted in many other countries. “If you really want to look at how early the virus started circulating in the population, you have to work systematically, structurally and for instance look at serum studies, blood studies, of a representative selection of the population over time,” Dr. Fischer said. “The virus has definitely circulated in the population before the first clinically serious cases became known,” she added.
🔥 最新回帖
很多傻子就是被这些媒体刻意的误导，还自以为掌握了真相，实际被媒体玩弄于股掌之中
网友根据BBC NYT等的报道和它们援引过的专家在社交媒体的反驳 大体是两个问题： 专家说双方讨论有时很热烈；扭腰时报报道时就说双方争吵很激烈； 专家说拿到了新数据，取得了进展；扭腰时报道时就写中方没有提供全部原始数据；
BBC则跳出来说兔子干扰调查，试图推翻世卫专家的初步结论。基本上是准备发动所谓独立调查的套路，在铺垫和营造舆论。
🛋️ 沙发板凳
这才是关键点。最前期的几个病人先搞清楚病史，接触史 天天闭着眼喊美国投毒太下作了
不是测序 是不给原始病历
怎么测序啊。早期病人应该没有保留下病毒样本。
最早的测序是张永振教授提供的，虽然肯定也不是最早期的病人。
当然他已经被彻底穿小鞋，连工作都丢了。
中共的掩盖和 SARS 1 天上地下，越这样，越 smell。。。。
军管个屁，轮媒造的谣
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/965966786/world-health-organization-finishes-investigation-into-origins-of-covid-19
World Health Organization Finishes Investigation Into Origins Of COVID-19
SHAPIRO: Explain to us how that would work - the virus coming through frozen foods. DOUCLEFF: Yes, so this is a hypothesis that many scientists have dismissed repeatedly, but some Chinese scientists believe the virus has been imported into China several times through frozen meats - not like the pizzas that come to the grocery store but meat of infected wild animals. Dr. Peter Embarek, who led the WHO team, says this needs to be studied more.
WTF, why the countries exporting Frozen meat to China had the cases months after Wuhan?
陈微去过 五毒所，管理一段时间。。
这几年红色政权在国际上的渗透远超想象，WTO就是一个很好的例子。 还记不记得之前连宣布pandemic都要拖着，回头中国又打了几个亿的funding。 说的难听点，现在就是要抢西方的lunch。我也爱在中国的朋友家人，但如果你在欧美混的话，这个政权做大的话国外大家的日子只会更难过。
哇，一副小人得志的样子诶，是随时打算再给我们来一趟Sars3嘛？只要够流氓，你能奈我何？
南华早报报道中说中国政府自己的数据显示了2019年共有266名新冠患者，这次中国政府告诉WHO2019年12月有174名新冠患者，也就是可以推断2019年12月前有92名新冠患者。现在中国政府对WHO说在12月武汉爆发前两个月内有90多名疑似病例。把确诊病例改为疑似病例无非是想掩盖中国在12月前已经有新冠病例这个事实从而阻止WHO的溯源调查。如果不心虚为什么要阻止？
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3074991/coronavirus-chinas-first-confirmed-covid-1
文章贴了被删 所有关于covid的文章要层层审批后才能发表 最先上传序列的被处理 就连这个版上看看有多少五毛 土共早就不是小白兔了，现在抢的是全天下人的饭碗。真凭实力能做到你我也就认了，但现在全他妈的是下三滥的手段。
本来这个中国唯一的顶级病毒研究所，就在病毒发生的武汉市，却对病毒不闻不问，还要靠一千公里外的张医生提供样本。这个嫌疑实在太大了。
你们媒体高调宣布，陈少将接管病毒所。你如果不知道，就不要乱洗地。
去年没有甩锅美国军人前锅内有好几篇大型调查报告的，记得最早有记录的病例是19年10月，后来这些文章都404了。当时存下来就好了。这就是为什么看不上WM粉红战狼洗地的原因。
此地无银。。。呵呵。。。
这些伎俩都不考虑，居然就这么赤果果的拒绝 @，@
它这个五毛工作太不认真了。
这是因为假的需要操作，需要有人配合，某个环节万一出了问题就很麻烦。
所以最稳妥的就是拒绝，这样就不会出错。你们可以骂，但不会有实际证据，因为实际证据都已经被销毁了。
要按照土共的思路去想，那很多事情就make sense了。
这脸打的。。。
如果是谣言，中国科学院出来辟谣是正常做法，居然要一个生化武器的军事专家出来全面接管，这哪里是辟谣，这是查实！
军事医学科学院的都是是文职，她的团队需要高安全实验室启动疫苗研制。狗屁军管。
洗地专家，“中国首席生化武器防御专家、军事医学医学科学院生物工程研究所所长陈薇少将临危受命，全面接管武汉P4级实验室。” 这不是军管，什么是军管？ 还要胡说搞疫苗。武毒所与搞疫苗有屁个关系。你是越洗越黑。
还有就是土共不知道美国这边的技术有多高。万一美国这里技术先进查出来一些东东的话国内会非常被动。
所以干脆拒绝。
赞前面毛毛洗地新角度 实验室需要武职军官，开着坦克，才叫接管 文职带几个内卫，不叫接管
尼玛懂什么叫军管么？
强 Re! 真强大起来谁都服气，真刀真枪来较量，这样全是下作手段真无耻！
别睁着眼说瞎话了，你的每一个字都是瞎JB扯淡，很多人都屏蔽了你，你就有点自知之明赶紧滚了吧
你妈你懂不懂文革时候解放军对全国高校的军管？军管就是军官接管！你这个别动队水平太差。
妹妹别跟他说了。我现在都看不见他。心情愉快最重要。
大丈夫一个，对无耻之尤蛢蠠就是要痛击。
Weaklings who cannot handle the truth. 装鸵鸟的自保策略啊，现实太让人痛苦了啊。好可怜。
“阴谋论”的原始素材都从大陆来，大陆在去年一月到三月提供了大量素材，包括武汉肺炎的名称。
不能同意更多。自己脏的一塌糊涂，怪别人嫌自己臭。。。
得了吧！你就别洗了。当时说陈薇带队进驻的可都是国内官媒，当这版上的人都只有金鱼的记忆？
张永振不是全职复旦教授吗，有什么证据工作丢了？
陈薇是少将军衔。如果少将不是军官，你说说什么军官吧。
知道什么叫文职吗？
“中华民族复兴从知耻始”，这是今天的名句。不过知耻对大陆政权要求太高，不要到处诬赖已经不错了，就说“中华民族复兴从不会到处诬赖开始”。
不能同意更多
所以 为何WHO 专家确认不是是实验室出来的 ？ 不是实验室制造的你前期患者病例都接触不到 怎么能下什么结论
欧美国家也是自己作死，病毒所就是法国建的吧
WHO其实干不了什么，查出来了多大的罪过啊
没错。欧美和这种土匪交过手根本不占上风。
当初也是坑蒙拐骗加入了wto，到去年为止很多放开的承诺都是狗屁。
土共做法就是先骗到门票，然后上船后就开始小聪明破坏规则，而且很多是下三滥的手段。
呵呵，魑魅魍魉们都跳出来了啊，1.20之前不是说好了主媒都是被土工收买了的嘛？ 一个CCP官媒北美分社的谣言你们就这么兴奋？
谭老贼就是土共走狗，收钱办事
身在曹营心在汉的人其实不少。我爱中国的家人朋友，也希望中国的穷苦大众过上好的生活，但正义和公理不能缺席
WTO每年都有主要经济体对世贸规则遵守的评价，查一下很难么？ 美国贸易战，关税战，各种以国家安全名义采取的下作手段如果符合WTO规则，就不会技术性阻止WTO裁决机构法官的改选，瘫痪WTO好几年了。 之前中美之间，中美和其他国家之间的上诉到WTO的官司都能够正常进行，都互有输赢不是事实？
WTO，WHO和很多其他联合国组织基本上都是美国主导制定规则成立的，玩不赢了就退群毁约耍流氓的事情还干得少？ 从这个角度指责中国你还是省省吧，徒增笑话
转移话题是五毛们的标准手段。还可以再扯远点。
自己比较我回复的原帖内容，和你回复我的内容。看谁 扯淡扯得远。 你有一丝一毫讲道理讨论问题的能力和意愿吗？
恭喜sars 3.0
看错了。 就服某些人以为任何国际组织都得是自己家丁打手还得意洋洋标榜什么公正平等的流氓养样
让你妈再出去卖一次，生一个像你这样的，就付钱。 哈哈哈
哈哈 ，这位跟我一样看成WHO了
WTO，不是又拿下一个国际组织，掌握话语权吗
真是搞不懂，陈薇是少将也是病毒科学家，这方面的专家去武汉研究新冠病毒不是很正常嘛，怎么那么多的阴谋论
陈薇为社么获得共和国勋章啊？疫苗还没有国药搞得快
因为拍照获奖，就是打疫苗拍照，不是开玩笑，就是需要树立典型，因为获奖的时候疫苗连结果都没出来凭啥获奖，研制疫苗好几家为什么别人没获奖？就是摆拍的时机好，再加上身份加持，否则张宏生比她更有资格
WHO的专家团已经亲自出来辟谣了。
https://twitter.com/PeterDaszak/status/1360551108565999619
美国右派轮子化，要完
你贴这个没用，轮子们早就有定论，WHO都被土共收买了，包括主贴说的WSJ，他们认为除了懂王和自己没几个不是土共友军的。 挺好笑，我经常在怼轮子1450路德郭文贵时会想到，会不会误伤了战忽局的友军？
即使老外专家也要恰饭啊，来前的专家名单经过国内审核，提供的资料经过过滤，见什么人经过批准，发言之前必须和国内开过多少会才能定稿，可信度如果还有的话也不多了，还现在还故意要放出风来说有争议才更像真的，否则外人真会误解外国专家已经入党了
那应该怎么报道？ 中国提供了一部分信息，同时也掩盖了一部分信息？ 还是中国提供了信息？ 还是中国掩盖了部分信息？ 还是中国积极配合提供了信息？