懂王说我不认为科学懂;Science America背书拜登,为175年来首次

爱与自由
楼主 (北美华人网)
懂王认为气候变化对大火没有影响,树木的爆炸”才是火灾的主因。
加州自然资源局局长Wade Crowfoot不赞同,回应总统应认识到气候变化对森林的影响,科学才是关键,“如果我们忽视科学建议,认为一切都只是植被管理的问题,那我们就无法共同保护加州民众。”
懂王不以为然,回应:“天气很快就会凉快的,你就等着瞧吧。”
局长回应:“希望科学能同意你的说法”
懂王笑着说:“我不认为科学懂这个。”


h
happywindveryhappy
我听新闻的时候也听到了。真是unbelievable的反智。
桑陌
最恨科学界参合政治,基本节操都没了,柳叶刀经过这一出,已经没有credit了,现在继续扩散。
squirrel40
没有人比我更懂Science 
meanGirl7
科学家还是别参和政治的好。有CDC, WHO的先例,Scientific American 也来跳这个坑了?
爱与自由
既然聊到环保,顺便贴一下tele上面“进步灯塔”的环保总结,更多川粉小课堂欢迎大家去订阅。
另外前环保局长代表油公司的Pruitt,后环保局长代表煤公司的Wheeler也欢迎大家去进一步了解。
环保局占federal discretionary budget 0.2%,还要被川普削减31%。其危害性请大家参见电影Dark Waters

==华川粉小课堂==
你喜欢美国清新的空气和能直接饮用的自来水吗?
有谁会不喜欢呢?中国的工业环境污染长期以来是异议人士批评中共政府的一个重要领域,空气质量差和水污染对中国人造成了无法估量的健康伤害。 往往在批评中共政府对环境的破坏时,美国会成为一个高标准的参照系:“美国空气好,水好”
美国的空气质量为什么会好?水为什么会干净? 这得益于严格的环保监管,工业企业及其他行业的污染物排放有严格的要求。作为发达国家,人居和自然环境的保护程度是基本指标之一,发达国家有能力在发展经济的同时发展高标准的环保产业,否则空气污浊,污水横流,毒物遍地,那就谈不上发达。
美国的环境保护产业经过五十年的发展,已经成为一项长期国家战略,四十年前成立超级基金治理有害排放污染,十年前在替代能源和节能减排产业上投资近千亿美元,为美国人创造并保护清洁的生活环境和无害的自然环境。 但这一切从2017年开始被肆无忌惮地破坏了。 让我们看看“上帝拣选的川普”都做了什么…👇
1,五大湖区的有毒藻类每年夏季都会爆发,引起毒素污染,2014年Erie Lake毒藻爆发导致毒素渗入供水系统,40万人在多日内没有饮用水,地方当局宣布了紧急状态,由国民警卫队派发瓶装水渡过危机。 随着全球变暖,有毒藻类爆发愈甚。往年联邦政府每年拨款3亿美元用于五大湖修复,川普将资金削减至3000万。
2,2017年,川普命令其联邦政府修改碳排放社会成本的计算公式。这项指标是精确计算每吨二氧化碳排放所造成的社会经济损害,碳排放社会成本印度为86美元,美国为48美元,中国为24美元。川普用他要求的新算法将美国至2020年的碳排放社会成本下调为1-7美元,作为撤销奥巴马“新能源计划”的政策基础。
3,2017年三月,川普发布行政令开始逐步废除奥巴马时期的清洁能源计划以及气候行动计划。
清洁能源计划到2030年可以挽救因空气污染致病的数千人过早死亡,及约15万名儿童哮喘发作。 你反对PM 2.5吗?反对雾霾吗?那你应该支持清洁能源计划和气候行动计划。川普废除了它. https://www.epa.gov/cleanpowerplan/fact-sheet-clean-power-plan-benefits
4,2018年,川普指示美国环保署对汞排放对人体健康危害的规则进行重大修改。奥巴马时期的汞排放限制规则每年可以从减少化石燃料发电厂排放物中节省美国人800亿美元的心脏病和肺病医疗开支,但会造成电力行业每年96亿美元的损失。 2020年,川普成功地废除了奥巴马时代的汞排放限制,发电厂发来贺电。
5,1986年美国政府环保署建立了一个“有毒物质排放信息(TRI)发布系统”,该发布系统根据《紧急计划和社区知情权法案》要求工业设施每年向公众提供相关社区内及周边地区有毒物质的排放信息。 2018年-2020年,川普一度试图将该系统的资金削减40%左右。
6,2004年美国国家医学图书馆发布了一个免费的交互式在线数据工具:Toxmap。这个在线工具可以在全北美地图上查看每个有毒物质释放场所的详细环保署数据甚至包括死亡率统计。 2019年,这个广受欢迎在线工具被美国国家医学图书馆突然关闭,没有给出恰当理由。 https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2019/12/why-is-this-federal-pollution-tracker-shutting-down/
7,2018年1月,川普指示环保署在新的法规指南中修改政策,为污染企业创造法律漏洞,废除对污染企业的排放管制。 《清洁空气法案》第112条规定凡是只要每年有一次排放超过了10吨有毒物质或25吨有毒混合气体的工业设施都属于主要设施,要使用最高等级的净化设备进行净化处理,即“一次越线,永远越线”。
8,川普政府废除了“一次越线,永远越线”政策,将该条规定解释为只要不超过10吨/25吨排放量,就可以下调评级被定为非主要设施,可以自行选装任意等级环保净化设备。这意味着钢铁、造纸、能源化工、及其他相关的污染行业企业将不再受到严格的排放标准约束,会比以往增加更多的有毒物质排放。
9,2020年3月,川普指示环保署发布了《全国环境豁免规则》,全面放松环保监管,允许发电厂、化工企业、能源企业及其他高污染行业企业自行确定并报告自己是否符合法律规定的空气和水污染排放净化要求,并且污染排放企业不会因为超标排放而受到罚款处罚。
10,2019年环保署研究人员曾建议将空气中的年度颗粒物标准由每立方米12微克降低至8-10微克(soot,即煤烟,华人熟悉的PM10/2.5),因为通过数据研究,每立方米9微克的颗粒物标准每年可以挽救12200条美国人的生命。 2020年4月,川普政府拒绝了降低年度颗粒物标准。 https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/14/epa-pollution-coronavirus/
11,2020年6月,川普颁布行政令,要求各机构取消对基础设施建设项目的环境审查,同时环保署发布新规则,改变成本效益分析方法,通过改变公共卫生福利价值衡量的方式来证明削弱清洁空气和气候变化法规的合理性,推进废除环保监管的进度。
12,仍是6月,川普指示环保署宣布废除对公共供水系统中高氯酸盐的管制。饮用水中的高氯酸盐会破坏甲状腺的功能,导致人体激素缺乏并伤害子宫胎儿,致使大脑发育受损,智力低下。但川普政府环保署声称公共供水中高氯酸盐自2011年奥巴马政府颁布法规以来已经降低了90%,不再需要监管。
13,2019年9月,川普正式废除了WOTUS,这是一项2015年奥巴马时期颁布的清洁水法规《美国水域规则》,限制了在湿地、河流及其他水体附近排放化学污染物。 《美国水域规则》基于1972年的《清洁水法案》,奥巴马政府为此召开了400多次会议,征求了超过一百万条公众意见,保护了约1.2亿美国人的饮水安全。
14,废除《美国水域规则》的直接后果就是污染排放者可以无需许可证就可以对水体进行污染排放。 2020年1月,川普发布了他自己的替代品《通航水域保护规则》,环保产业诞生数十年来,美国首次允许土地所有者和房地产商将农药化肥等污染物直接倾倒进成千上万的水道中,并可以破坏湿地,用于建造房地产。
15,游说川普政府取消对全美数千个湿地溪流的水保护的,是房地产商,高尔夫球场业主,以及水体流域的土地所有者。 2015年当奥巴马总统颁布《美国水域规则》时,因保护饮用水而获得了美国人民的广泛支持,但遭遇了很多行业团体的抵制,其中就包括川普12个高尔夫球场所在的高尔夫协会联盟,曾写信抵制。
16,毒死蜱,一种剧毒农药,近年有研究表明对儿童的早期神经发育有严重损伤,长期暴露在这种农药环境会导致智力迟缓,心理和生理障碍,学习能力低下。2016年,奥巴马政府遵循“预防原则”在研究结果无法得出毒死蜱符合安全标准的前提下决定禁用该农药。 你猜对了,2017年3月,川普政府推翻了该决定。
17,还是2017年3月,川普推翻了奥巴马总统在2015年颁布的《联邦及印第安土地上的水力压裂规则》,该规则限制用水力压裂井开采天然气。 水力压裂井会从岩石中释放苯等有毒气体致呼吸道疾病,附近地表水中也有化学物质污染,造成婴儿早产。 https://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2017/02/23/fracking-is-dangerous-to-your-health-heres-why/
18,2017年6月,川普暂停执行奥巴马总统颁布的甲烷泄露规则。该规则要求石油天然气企业必须监测并封堵开采井和压缩机站的任何甲烷泄漏。 2019年8月,川普政府宣布甲烷具有经济价值,石油天然气污染企业可以自行调节减少泄漏,不再进行监管。
19,2017年4月川普指示政府重新审查奥巴马总统颁布的至2022年大西洋东南沿海及北冰洋海上钻探禁令。 2018年1月川普表示计划将开放所有海域的海上油气钻探,该计划废除了美国数十年在能源需求与海洋生态系统保护间的取得平衡的努力。
20,2017年5月,川普撤销了自奥巴马总统在2010年深水地平线石油钻井平台大爆炸后为防止再次出现类似事故而颁布的安全法规,同时任命了Scott Angelle为安全与环境执法局负责人。 墨西哥湾深水地平线大爆炸事故泄露的原油污染了1100公里海岸线,是美国历史上最严重的环境生态事故灾难,影响长达数十年。
21,川普撤销安全法规后为石油天然气企业节省了至少50亿美元的安全成本,但极大地增加了与深水地平线石油钻井平台爆炸类似事故灾难的可能性。清理深水地平线事故泄露原油的作业成本就高达280亿美元。
22,写得好累… 2017年2月撤销了奥巴马的河流保护规则,该规则要求矿业公司监测水质禁止污染饮用水源。 2017年3月撤销了奥巴马的联邦土地采矿禁令,该禁令要求采矿企业负担污染治理成本。川普撤销该禁令,将治理成本转移给了联邦和州政府 。
23,川普用行政命令取消环保评审,推进两条穿越饮用水源的能源管道的建设。川普本人在管道所有方及管道承建方都拥有股份,甲方乙方两头都赚。管道所有方企业的所有CEO都为川普的竞选提供了六位数的捐款。
24,2012年奥巴马总统颁布法规使美国汽车燃油效率标准与加州一致。 2017年,在汽车制造商的游说下,川普将燃油效率标准降低了32%,远超车企的要求。 2019年7月车企们与加州达成协议将履行高于联邦政府的加州标准。 9月川普对所有和加州达成协议的车企发动反信任调查,同时撤销加州制定自己排放标准的豁免权。
25,2020年3月,川普完全废除了奥巴马总统颁布的燃油效率标准,将要求降低到没有任何法规的程度。 有23个州对川普政府提起诉讼,声明废除燃油效率标准将会导致每年2000人死亡及
a
ahqi
真正科学家非政客谈西部山火原因。Cliff Mass是华州教授,有名的气象学家。Inslee就是个典型政客。多年前记得参加一个行业seminar,有speaker说到inslee隐晦的说他水平不高,当时当八卦听的,看来是真的。 Cliff Mass: Inslee wrong on climate change and western fires ‘by 180 degrees’ https://mynorthwest.com/2162083/cliff-mass-inslee-climate-change-fires/ Recently, on national television with George Stephanopoulos, Gov. Jay Inslee said that climate change is almost solely the reason for the devastating fires all across the west. How much veracity is there to this? Cliff Mass, professor of atmospheric sciences at the UW, joined the Dori Monson Show to discuss What is his reaction to the governor’s comments? “Well, in general, it’s not true. And one important thing you have to keep in mind is you have to talk about what fires you’re looking at,” Mass said. “Because different fires in different places have different origins. So the fires that we care most about the last week are the fires on the western side of the Oregon Cascades. Those fires were forced by extraordinarily unusual easterly winds with great strength and persistence.” It hasn’t happened in 50 to 70 years, as far back as the records go, so it ’s very unusual,” he added. “Now, here’s the interesting thing. These fires, like all fires on the western side, are all associated with strong easterly winds. Our climate change models suggest that these winds will get less likely into climate change. So not only does Jay Inslee have it wrong, but he has it wrong by 180 degrees. Those kinds of strong winds from the east will probably weaken under global warming.” The frequency of fires have long existed in the west, and also relate to forest management and suppression, Mass says. “Wildfire is natural to the Western United States. In fact, wildfires were actually much more frequent if you go back 100 years or 150 years ago than now. What we did during the 1920s and 1930s — in that period, we started a real interesting experiment. We started suppressing fire and we did that on a massive scale. We really lowered the number of fires, but that had a very unfortunate effect,” he said. “We completely changed our forests and they have become much more dense. They have all kinds of scrubby trees underneath and the remains of past logging and whatever, and so forest fires now are much more prone to burn and burn catastrophically,” he explained. “So we changed the forest. But that’s not climate change. That’s how we’ve managed or mismanaged the forests. … Another part is also the number of people. We’ve had massive population increases in these areas at the interface between the forests and cities, and that has contributed to tremendous vulnerability.”
denis_sis
呵呵,先把 Arsonists 处理了,看自然j大火占的比重。Trump太倔。
落地无声
好山好水好无聊以后也要改了?
a
ahqi
回复 1楼爱与自由的帖子 全球气候变暖是事实,但在加州频发山火,自己管理有问题却推卸责任说是climate change。这个加州resources manager 不是在趁这个机会甩锅吗?这不是他的责任吗?
meanGirl7
最恨科学界参合政治,基本节操都没了,柳叶刀经过这一出,已经没有credit了,现在继续扩散。
桑陌 发表于 2020-09-15 13:48

还有就是:这个Scientific American的这个背书比较没有scientific sense 我们来推论下: 川普反科学,是个反智的蠢货。 所以,我们都要投拜登。
这个缺了一步啊。万一拜登也反智呢?也反科学呢?证据在哪儿?
scientific的结论是: 川普反科学,是个反智的蠢货。所以,我们不能投川普。这个就逻辑的多,有说服力多了。
我的结论:科学家不能搞政治。
爱与自由
最恨科学界参合政治,基本节操都没了,柳叶刀经过这一出,已经没有credit了,现在继续扩散。
桑陌 发表于 2020-09-15 13:48

都是科学的错,害美国死了这么多人
都是媒体的错,Woodward知道总统从一开始就downplay,就应该report authority啊,oh wait,Trump IS the authority
都是中国功夫病毒的错,没有眼色胆敢影响股市和Trump 4eva,明明和习皇都说好了助连任的
雁过
真正科学家非政客谈西部山火原因。Cliff Mass是华州教授,有名的气象学家。Inslee就是个典型政客。多年前记得参加一个行业seminar,有speaker说到inslee隐晦的说他水平不高,当时当八卦听的,看来是真的。 Cliff Mass: Inslee wrong on climate change and western fires ‘by 180 degrees’ https://mynorthwest.com/2162083/cliff-mass-inslee-climate-change-fires/ Recently, on national television with George Stephanopoulos, Gov. Jay Inslee said that climate change is almost solely the reason for the devastating fires all across the west. How much veracity is there to this? Cliff Mass, professor of atmospheric sciences at the UW, joined the Dori Monson Show to discuss What is his reaction to the governor’s comments? “Well, in general, it’s not true. And one important thing you have to keep in mind is you have to talk about what fires you’re looking at,” Mass said. “Because different fires in different places have different origins. So the fires that we care most about the last week are the fires on the western side of the Oregon Cascades. Those fires were forced by extraordinarily unusual easterly winds with great strength and persistence.” It hasn’t happened in 50 to 70 years, as far back as the records go, so it ’s very unusual,” he added. “Now, here’s the interesting thing. These fires, like all fires on the western side, are all associated with strong easterly winds. Our climate change models suggest that these winds will get less likely into climate change. So not only does Jay Inslee have it wrong, but he has it wrong by 180 degrees. Those kinds of strong winds from the east will probably weaken under global warming.” The frequency of fires have long existed in the west, and also relate to forest management and suppression, Mass says. “Wildfire is natural to the Western United States. In fact, wildfires were actually much more frequent if you go back 100 years or 150 years ago than now. What we did during the 1920s and 1930s — in that period, we started a real interesting experiment. We started suppressing fire and we did that on a massive scale. We really lowered the number of fires, but that had a very unfortunate effect,” he said. “We completely changed our forests and they have become much more dense. They have all kinds of scrubby trees underneath and the remains of past logging and whatever, and so forest fires now are much more prone to burn and burn catastrophically,” he explained. “So we changed the forest. But that’s not climate change. That’s how we’ve managed or mismanaged the forests. … Another part is also the number of people. We’ve had massive population increases in these areas at the interface between the forests and cities, and that has contributed to tremendous vulnerability.”
ahqi 发表于 2020-09-15 13:53

如果把野火看成virus, 森林看成人类。。。。
细思极恐
落地无声
没有人比我更懂Science 

squirrel40 发表于 2020-09-15 13:50

holiday2016
最恨科学界参合政治,基本节操都没了,柳叶刀经过这一出,已经没有credit了,现在继续扩散。
桑陌 发表于 2020-09-15 13:48

本来也没什么节操,科学界可以当作一个个中小企业主。几十年前让美国人使劲吃糖,就是营养学界拿了贿赂,导致美国肥胖率和心脑血管疾病率飙升,连带造成的医疗成本,贻害万年。
坑王的爹
最恨科学界参合政治,基本节操都没了,柳叶刀经过这一出,已经没有credit了,现在继续扩散。
桑陌 发表于 2020-09-15 13:48

既然宗教能参与,军队能参与,法官能参与,家庭成员能参与,科学为何不能?
爱与自由
回复 1楼爱与自由的帖子 全球气候变暖是事实,但在加州频发山火,自己管理有问题却推卸责任说是climate change。这个加州resources manager 不是在趁这个机会甩锅吗?这不是他的责任吗?
ahqi 发表于 2020-09-15 13:57

当代最虔诚川粉几大议题: - 地球是平的(Flat Earth Society了解一下) - 气候变化是假的(环保都是左派阴谋) - 达尔文进化论是不存在的(肯塔基有个最大的自然历史博物馆讲解上帝如何同时创造了人和恐龙并且和谐共处) - 堕胎是最不可饶恕的罪恶,哪怕你是希特勒,只要反对堕胎我也选你
雁过
参与政治是很糟糕的事情?好像也就东方被儒家洗脑了才会觉得参与政治很可耻。以前有个皇帝希望大家都不要参与政治,他好很容易掌控政治和人民。来了西方还是这副高姿态。。
爱与自由
回复 1楼爱与自由的帖子 全球气候变暖是事实,但在加州频发山火,自己管理有问题却推卸责任说是climate change。这个加州resources manager 不是在趁这个机会甩锅吗?这不是他的责任吗?
ahqi 发表于 2020-09-15 13:57

想问一下川普为什么要扣加州救山火的funding啊?
这种时候说这都是州的事儿了,可是联邦政府拥有加州58%的森林土地,州政府只拥有3%哦
而且不只是扣加州的funding,好几个蓝州都扣,纽约连地铁消毒的钱都扣是为什么啊?帮助病毒传播吗?
爱与自由
好山好水好无聊以后也要改了?
落地无声 发表于 2020-09-15 13:55

自由的香甜空气也快呼吸不到了
爱与自由
还有就是:这个Scientific American的这个背书比较没有scientific sense 我们来推论下: 川普反科学,是个反智的蠢货。 所以,我们都要投拜登。
这个缺了一步啊。万一拜登也反智呢?也反科学呢?证据在哪儿?
scientific的结论是: 川普反科学,是个反智的蠢货。所以,我们不能投川普。这个就逻辑的多,有说服力多了。
我的结论:科学家不能搞政治。
meanGirl7 发表于 2020-09-15 13:58

是哦,科学美国人好傻,这个脑子也不知道怎么成为全球最知名的科普杂志的
拜登虽然从政五十年都没有川普的四年如此反智,反教育,反科学,反医学,反环保,但他在官网上说的也有可能全都是撒谎啊 https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/inside-joe-bidens-network-of-climate-advisers/
爱与自由

落地无声 发表于 2020-09-15 14:01

爱与自由
本来也没什么节操,科学界可以当作一个个中小企业主。几十年前让美国人使劲吃糖,就是营养学界拿了贿赂,导致美国肥胖率和心脑血管疾病率飙升,连带造成的医疗成本,贻害万年。
holiday2016 发表于 2020-09-15 14:01

应该取缔整个科学界!
什么诺贝尔,什么著名期刊影响因子,什么改变人类进程,全是FAKE NEWS!
落地无声

爱与自由 发表于 2020-09-15 14:18

哈哈哈,还有画面感,有录像就更好了,是不是像扒开黑山总理一样?
落地无声
回复 22楼爱与自由的帖子

系统提示:若遇到视频无法播放请点击下方链接
https://www.youtube.com/embed/saNvY4tD3wA 这里面当爹的那位
爱与自由
既然宗教能参与,军队能参与,法官能参与,家庭成员能参与,科学为何不能?
坑王的爹 发表于 2020-09-15 14:04

CDC,FDA,教育部,环保局。。。都已经被现任总统全面政治化了,干的一系列事儿所有人都承担了后果
川普任命的联邦法官要裁定新冠隔离措施违法了,大家自求多福吧
落地无声
应该取缔整个科学界!
什么诺贝尔,什么著名期刊影响因子,什么改变人类进程,全是FAKE NEWS!
爱与自由 发表于 2020-09-15 14:22

人家要拿这个“Noble”和平奖,听都没听说过,不科学。
爱与自由
参与政治是很糟糕的事情?好像也就东方被儒家洗脑了才会觉得参与政治很可耻。以前有个皇帝希望大家都不要参与政治,他好很容易掌控政治和人民。来了西方还是这副高姿态。。
雁过 发表于 2020-09-15 14:07

意思是只有总统有权把所有科学环保教育机构政治化,提出反对不行
我们毕竟是半民主国家,没有中俄那样的制度优越性,一声令下疫苗就研究出来了,总统已经很努力在催了,要不九大药企联合发声明别催了呢
avest
建议把诺贝尔物理学奖、化学奖和医学奖都颁发给懂王
a
ahqi
左左的logic就是不是黑的就是白的。稍微有一点不同意见就给别人label,这跟希拉里说川普支持者都是deplorable一样。你说的这些extreme的case在任何一边左或右都能找到,但能代表大多数吗?以偏概全,扩大化,你在批川粉,自己水平也没见的多高。
当代最虔诚川粉几大议题:- 地球是平的(Flat Earth Society了解一下)- 气候变化是假的(环保都是左派阴谋)- 达尔文进化论是不存在的(肯塔基有个最大的自然历史博物馆讲解上帝如何同时创造了人和恐龙并且和谐共处)- 堕胎是最不可饶恕的罪恶,哪怕你是希特勒,只要反对堕胎我也选你
爱与自由 发表于 9/15/2020 2:05:32 PM
a
ahqi
你找出来trump 扣加州funding的报道吧,我没听说,Trump之前打嘴炮骂加州威胁要扣是有的,但newson上电视说联邦合作很好,trump批救援款很快,打电话给trump他也很快都接电话。 要说责任当然不是一方的,a lot of forest lands are owned by the federal but many state regulations govern , especially when comes private land, 就是那剩下的39%,这些local governor, official 统统甩锅给climate change,不是不负责任是啥? 从你那58%文章里来的: State and federal agencies have programmes and regulations to encourage co-operation and best practice when it comes to managing private forested areas, including reducing the threat of wildfires. But there've also been funding cuts to federal agencies under President Trump, although the administration has given some more money for specific programmes to reduce the risk of wildfires.
回复 1楼爱与自由的帖子 全球气候变暖是事实,但在加州频发山火,自己管理有问题却推卸责任说是climate change。这个加州resources manager 不是在趁这个机会甩锅吗?这不是他的责任吗? ahqi 发表于 2020-09-15 13:57想问一下川普为什么要扣加州救山火的funding啊?这种时候说这都是州的事儿了,可是联邦政府拥有加州58%的森林土地,州政府只拥有3%哦而且不只是扣加州的funding,好几个蓝州都扣,纽约连地铁消毒的钱都扣是为什么啊?帮助病毒传播吗?
爱与自由 发表于 9/15/2020 2:09:12 PM
a
ahqi
不奇怪,左边的BLM也叫嚣 shutdown STEM, 哪边都有激进派,还好美国人大多是有common sense的。知道你提出的煽动性的口号是来自lunatic mind。目的是混淆视听,只能骗骗每天去rioting的小白左,那些人真的是一点就着。话说山火的唯一好处就是波特兰抗议好像消停了些。
应该取缔整个科学界!什么诺贝尔,什么著名期刊影响因子,什么改变人类进程,全是FAKE NEWS!
爱与自由 发表于 9/15/2020 2:22:09 PM
yzhan004
2020最讽刺的就是scientist变成了贬义词
爱与自由
哈哈哈,还有画面感,有录像就更好了,是不是像扒开黑山总理一样?
落地无声 发表于 2020-09-15 14:23

推开黑山总理的事川粉一片叫好,觉得彰显了大国外交风范
s
strawberrykiwi
Well there are things that science does not yet know or can’t possibly know. Anyone who claims that science is always right, always knows the best is actually anti-science.
爱与自由
左左的logic就是不是黑的就是白的。稍微有一点不同意见就给别人label,这跟希拉里说川普支持者都是deplorable一样。你说的这些extreme的case在任何一边左或右都能找到,但能代表大多数吗?以偏概全,扩大化,你在批川粉,自己水平也没见的多高。
当代最虔诚川粉几大议题:- 地球是平的(Flat Earth Society了解一下)- 气候变化是假的(环保都是左派阴谋)- 达尔文进化论是不存在的(肯塔基有个最大的自然历史博物馆讲解上帝如何同时创造了人和恐龙并且和谐共处)- 堕胎是最不可饶恕的罪恶,哪怕你是希特勒,只要反对堕胎我也选你
爱与自由 发表于 9/15/2020 2:05:32 PM


ahqi 发表于 2020-09-15 15:13

我只是引用事实,左左里福音派还真的是少,Flat Earth Society和肯塔基上帝自然博物馆也真不是左左建的
非黑即白的可是你们herd mentality邪教教徒呀,我们普通人看证据
爱与自由
你找出来trump 扣加州funding的报道吧,我没听说,Trump之前打嘴炮骂加州威胁要扣是有的,但newson上电视说联邦合作很好,trump批救援款很快,打电话给trump他也很快都接电话。 要说责任当然不是一方的,a lot of forest lands are owned by the federal but many state regulations govern , especially when comes private land, 就是那剩下的39%,这些local governor, official 统统甩锅给climate change,不是不负责任是啥? 从你那58%文章里来的: State and federal agencies have programmes and regulations to encourage co-operation and best practice when it comes to managing private forested areas, including reducing the threat of wildfires. But there've also been funding cuts to federal agencies under President Trump, although the administration has given some more money for specific programmes to reduce the risk of wildfires.
回复 1楼爱与自由的帖子 全球气候变暖是事实,但在加州频发山火,自己管理有问题却推卸责任说是climate change。这个加州resources manager 不是在趁这个机会甩锅吗?这不是他的责任吗? ahqi 发表于 2020-09-15 13:57想问一下川普为什么要扣加州救山火的funding啊?这种时候说这都是州的事儿了,可是联邦政府拥有加州58%的森林土地,州政府只拥有3%哦而且不只是扣加州的funding,好几个蓝州都扣,纽约连地铁消毒的钱都扣是为什么啊?帮助病毒传播吗?
爱与自由 发表于 9/15/2020 2:09:12 PM


ahqi 发表于 2020-09-15 15:27


Fixing the funding problem for firefighting was very important. But the long delay in reaching this compromise meant fire prevention efforts lagged for years, allowing the buildup of fire-prone vegetation that will fuel future fires, likely contributing to the fires sweeping through California and the Pacific Northwest today. Why the delays? Because some Republican members of the House and the Senate refused to fix the funding problems unless measures were included to limit environmental reviews and legal challenges to future timber sales and insisted that funding for future national forest timber sales be increased.  But the fire fix addresses only one part of the problem—there’s also a serious capacity problem to address. According to the California office of the U.S. Forest Service, returning California’s national forests to a condition that reduces future extreme fire risk would require treating 6 million to 9 million acres a year. Currently, the agency treats a small fraction of that—approximately 200,000 acres per year. The agency would need to increase the number of acres restored to approximately 500,000 acres per year at a cost of at least $300 million a year to make significant progress in reducing future wildfire risk. And that is only in California.  At the same time, the Trump administration has sent mixed signals to Forest Service leadership regarding what the agency’s management priorities should be. It would seem that reducing fuel loads that contribute to fire risk and improving forest health should be the top priority. But, political leadership in the Department of Agriculture has reinstituted timber targets as a performance measure for Forest Service leaders in addition to improving forest health. In other words, as anxiety rises about fire risk across federal lands, national forest managers are being rewarded for shifting attention and dollars away from the goal of smart maintenance. Meeting timber production goals has little to do with improving the health and resilience of national forest lands. However, it is an easy metric to assess the performance of forest managers as well as a way to satisfy the timber industry.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/agenda/2020/09/15/trump-fires-california-federal-land-415431
a
ahqi
我只是引用事实,左左里福音派还真的是少,Flat Earth Society和肯塔基上帝自然博物馆也真不是左左建的
非黑即白的可是你们herd mentality邪教教徒呀,我们普通人看证据
爱与自由 发表于 2020-09-16 12:42

不要你们你们的邪教徒,悄摸摸的就扣帽子。左左这样的事没少做。而且不是建立一个society和博物馆这么简单,那些都是你可以自愿选择信不信,没人逼你。看看左左做的事,冲进餐馆逼顾客举起拳头支持BLM,要不就intimate,到居民区涂鸦,大声喧哗交出你们的房子,公司里除非匿名否则说all lives matter,或是提出BLM的问题,分分钟被开除。左左这些tactic和淫威已经渗入日常生活,那个herd mentality 披着政治正确外衣所向披靡,只有一种声音,那才是真正的herd mentality,才是真正的可怕。
爱与自由
不奇怪,左边的BLM也叫嚣 shutdown STEM, 哪边都有激进派,还好美国人大多是有common sense的。知道你提出的煽动性的口号是来自lunatic mind。目的是混淆视听,只能骗骗每天去rioting的小白左,那些人真的是一点就着。话说山火的唯一好处就是波特兰抗议好像消停了些。
应该取缔整个科学界!什么诺贝尔,什么著名期刊影响因子,什么改变人类进程,全是FAKE NEWS!
爱与自由 发表于 9/15/2020 2:22:09 PM


ahqi 发表于 2020-09-15 15:34

不是按川粉的逻辑喊喊的都不算吗?stem真的shutdown了吗?人家反对学术界种族歧视,看把你急的
美国大多数有common sense,那不应该这么多新冠感染死亡率世界第一啊?难道是因为故意downplay pendamic,推注射消毒水的总统?还是因为被上帝的血保佑,生殖器官需要呼吸,所以不需要戴口罩的maga们?
a
ahqi

Fixing the funding problem for firefighting was very important. But the long delay in reaching this compromise meant fire prevention efforts lagged for years, allowing the buildup of fire-prone vegetation that will fuel future fires, likely contributing to the fires sweeping through California and the Pacific Northwest today. Why the delays? Because some Republican members of the House and the Senate refused to fix the funding problems unless measures were included to limit environmental reviews and legal challenges to future timber sales and insisted that funding for future national forest timber sales be increased.  But the fire fix addresses only one part of the problem—there’s also a serious capacity problem to address. According to the California office of the U.S. Forest Service, returning California’s national forests to a condition that reduces future extreme fire risk would require treating 6 million to 9 million acres a year. Currently, the agency treats a small fraction of that—approximately 200,000 acres per year. The agency would need to increase the number of acres restored to approximately 500,000 acres per year at a cost of at least $300 million a year to make significant progress in reducing future wildfire risk. And that is only in California.  At the same time, the Trump administration has sent mixed signals to Forest Service leadership regarding what the agency’s management priorities should be. It would seem that reducing fuel loads that contribute to fire risk and improving forest health should be the top priority. But, political leadership in the Department of Agriculture has reinstituted timber targets as a performance measure for Forest Service leaders in addition to improving forest health. In other words, as anxiety rises about fire risk across federal lands, national forest managers are being rewarded for shifting attention and dollars away from the goal of smart maintenance. Meeting timber production goals has little to do with improving the health and resilience of national forest lands. However, it is an easy metric to assess the performance of forest managers as well as a way to satisfy the timber industry.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/agenda/2020/09/15/trump-fires-california-federal-land-415431

爱与自由 发表于 2020-09-16 12:53

The federal government’s spending on fire prevention has been shrinking; the budget for vegetation management fell from approximately $240 million in 2001 to $180 million in 2015, a decline of 24 percent.
Trump 不是2016才上台吗??
a
ahqi
反对学术界种族歧视,那怎么不反对体育界种族歧视呢?种族歧视可以pick and choose的?要AA就都AA呗,不要披着种族歧视这个政治正确大衣,虚伪! 那是你所谓的川粉的逻辑不是我的。我也觉得川普抗疫有失误,但也不是他一人责任。加上美国联邦和州分权,很多事情州里可以决定,联邦没法enforce,美国人国民爱自由,不可能搞封城那一套。你可以激动的把那些消毒水啥的嚷嚷一百遍自己开心就好了。
爱与自由
Well there are things that science does not yet know or can’t possibly know. Anyone who claims that science is always right, always knows the best is actually anti-science.
strawberrykiwi 发表于 2020-09-15 21:19

Yeh right, science doesn't know a lot of things because it has to be based on facts. On the contrary, no one knows anything better than your cult leader because he doesn't need facts at all to convince his herd mentality sheep to follow him.
https://youtu.be/sR3f95BGIiA
s
strawberrykiwi
回复 42楼爱与自由的帖子
He is the POTUS. Are you calling the whole country a cult?
In this case, he only meant that science does not know that the forest fires are caused by climate change and not by decades of neglect and forest mismanagement. Maybe it's caused by both, who knows.
Trump like to speak in short sentences. It is very easy to take his words out of context and misrepresent them. In any case, I think media does a disservice to the public by always making a big deal of what he says, not what he does. In doing so media discredit themselves.
爱与自由
不要你们你们的邪教徒,悄摸摸的就扣帽子。左左这样的事没少做。而且不是建立一个society和博物馆这么简单,那些都是你可以自愿选择信不信,没人逼你。看看左左做的事,冲进餐馆逼顾客举起拳头支持BLM,要不就intimate,到居民区涂鸦,大声喧哗交出你们的房子,公司里除非匿名否则说all lives matter,或是提出BLM的问题,分分钟被开除。左左这些tactic和淫威已经渗入日常生活,那个herd mentality 披着政治正确外衣所向披靡,只有一种声音,那才是真正的herd mentality,才是真正的可怕。
ahqi 发表于 2020-09-16 12:55

扣帽子一定不是川粉,比如打砸抢的犯罪分子代表了几千万支持平权的都是跪黑人这么没逻辑的事儿
基督教可信可不信?十字军东征了解一下?antisemitism了解一下?基督教恐怖主义wiki一下?极右翼枪手还少?对了新西兰大屠杀就是听了你家懂王的黑人网红Candace Owens的话受到启发呢
爱与自由
The federal government’s spending on fire prevention has been shrinking; the budget for vegetation management fell from approximately $240 million in 2001 to $180 million in 2015, a decline of 24 percent.
Trump 不是2016才上台吗??
ahqi 发表于 2020-09-16 13:07

后面就写了需要和资金的巨大差异啊?而且是因为他就像支持煤公司油公司污染一样支持木材行业啊?
At the same time, the Trump administration has sent mixed signals to Forest Service leadership regarding what the agency’s management priorities should be. It would seem that reducing fuel loads that contribute to fire risk and improving forest health should be the top priority. But, political leadership in the Department of Agriculture has reinstituted timber targets as a performance measure for Forest Service leaders in addition to improving forest health. In other words, as anxiety rises about fire risk across federal lands, national forest managers are being rewarded for shifting attention and dollars away from the goal of smart maintenance. Meeting timber production goals has little to do with improving the health and resilience of national forest lands. However, it is an easy metric to assess the performance of forest managers as well as a way to satisfy the timber industry.
川普的环保局EPA前局长,油公司代表Scott Pruitt自2003年起是专案组ALEC主席;继任局长煤公司代表Andrew Wheeler,上任一年之内的成就包括但不限于: 削弱了煤灰中有毒污染物对水源污染的监管; 提高化学致癌物PFAS不安全标准提高六倍; 撤回奥巴马的《清洁水法Clean Water Act》; 暂缓甲醛致癌风险报告; 允许制造商继续使用已知的最致命致癌物质石棉; 削弱燃煤电厂汞排放法规; 撤回奥巴马的车辆碳排放标准; 废除奥巴限制燃煤电厂碳排放量的《清洁能源计划Clean Power Plan》 (EPA的重要性参见电影Dark Waters杜邦公司特氟龙事件)
爱与自由
反对学术界种族歧视,那怎么不反对体育界种族歧视呢?种族歧视可以pick and choose的?要AA就都AA呗,不要披着种族歧视这个政治正确大衣,虚伪! 那是你所谓的川粉的逻辑不是我的。我也觉得川普抗疫有失误,但也不是他一人责任。加上美国联邦和州分权,很多事情州里可以决定,联邦没法enforce,美国人国民爱自由,不可能搞封城那一套。你可以激动的把那些消毒水啥的嚷嚷一百遍自己开心就好了。
ahqi 发表于 2020-09-16 13:13


1,体育界黑人多恰恰是几百年breeding的结果,做奴隶需要体力好的,聪明的敢识字的都被杀掉
2,认为联邦和州分治所以川普没责任的请看一下这个法理研究,在大流行病时期联邦和州各自需要做什么 https://www.rand.org/blog/2020/04/who-calls-the-shots-during-a-pandemic-the-us-government.html
3,如果联邦啥也做不了,他作为总统可以闭嘴当他的啦啦队,而不是天天宣传口罩无用,新冠是假,中国功夫病毒,让恶魔镜子医生强推HCQ,让CDC篡改数据,让教育部强推学校重开但不给老师防护计划和ppe,让女婿中饱私囊outbid各州需要的呼吸机,让卫生部长说这都是因为中国人吃蝙蝠和穿山甲屁股,这都是科学家的错。。。 https://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2577418 https://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2577771 https://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2597185
4,关于各州州长抗疫多么困难才能在他的重重阻挠下拿到救灾物资,请看我之间的科普贴,马里兰共和党州长写的Fighting Alone https://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2575530
lostmaple
后面就写了需要和资金的巨大差异啊?而且是因为他就像支持煤公司油公司污染一样支持木材行业啊?
At the same time, the Trump administration has sent mixed signals to Forest Service leadership regarding what the agency’s management priorities should be. It would seem that reducing fuel loads that contribute to fire risk and improving forest health should be the top priority. But, political leadership in the Department of Agriculture has reinstituted timber targets as a performance measure for Forest Service leaders in addition to improving forest health. In other words, as anxiety rises about fire risk across federal lands, national forest managers are being rewarded for shifting attention and dollars away from the goal of smart maintenance. Meeting timber production goals has little to do with improving the health and resilience of national forest lands. However, it is an easy metric to assess the performance of forest managers as well as a way to satisfy the timber industry.
川普的环保局EPA前局长,油公司代表Scott Pruitt自2003年起是专案组ALEC主席;继任局长煤公司代表Andrew Wheeler,上任一年之内的成就包括但不限于: 削弱了煤灰中有毒污染物对水源污染的监管; 提高化学致癌物PFAS不安全标准提高六倍; 撤回奥巴马的《清洁水法Clean Water Act》; 暂缓甲醛致癌风险报告; 允许制造商继续使用已知的最致命致癌物质石棉; 削弱燃煤电厂汞排放法规; 撤回奥巴马的车辆碳排放标准; 废除奥巴限制燃煤电厂碳排放量的《清洁能源计划Clean Power Plan》 (EPA的重要性参见电影Dark Waters杜邦公司特氟龙事件)
爱与自由 发表于 2020-09-16 23:49

谢谢提供这些信息。 一说到山火,就说到forest mismanagement,说要砍树。 timber industry的利益跟forest management相反,forest management要砍的树timber industry根本无利可图
a
ahqi
还几百年breeding?奴隶制有几百年吗?聪明识字都杀掉为了breeding?哪本历史书上写的?这样的话founding father都该拉出来鞭尸了。这题材够惊悚劲爆,好莱坞咋还不赶紧拍一个? 联邦和州分治所以都有责任啊,你发的不是更证明这一点,现在的舆论全是联邦责任不是在politicized 这件事吗? Trump就是这样不愿意闭嘴,这也是造成他人们觉得他抗疫选情落后的主要原因,我又没替他辩护,你急什么? 各州抗疫被重重阻挠?你这是一面之辞吧?有觉得他不够合作的,也有觉得他很多帮助的。newson为什么公开感谢trump?我们WA州那个trump hater,州长,拿了联邦物资,army Corp of engineering 第一时间建了临时病房的,回头就骂Trump的也是有的。你如果带着partisan眼睛看事情,本来就讨厌trump看到的当然是都是负面的。
1,体育界黑人多恰恰是几百年breeding的结果,做奴隶需要体力好的,聪明的敢识字的都被杀掉2,认为联邦和州分治所以川普没责任的请看一下这个法理研究,在大流行病时期联邦和州各自需要做什么https://www.rand.org/blog/2020/04/who-calls-the-shots-during-a-pandemic-the-us-government.html3,如果联邦啥也做不了,他作为总统可以闭嘴当他的啦啦队,而不是天天宣传口罩无用,新冠是假,中国功夫病毒,让恶魔镜子医生强推HCQ,让CDC篡改数据,让教育部强推学校重开但不给老师防护计划和ppe,让女婿中饱私囊outbid各州需要的呼吸机,让卫生部长说这都是因为中国人吃蝙蝠和穿山甲屁股,这都是科学家的错。。。https://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2577418https://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2577771https://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=25971854,关于各州州长抗疫多么困难才能在他的重重阻挠下拿到救灾物资,请看我之间的科普贴,马里兰共和党州长写的Fighting Alonehttps://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2575530
爱与自由 发表于 9/16/2020 11:59:44 PM
a
ahqi
这文章的也没说trump政府支持木材业就等于不重视森林管理,(political leadership in the Department of Agriculture has reinstituted timber targets as a performance measure for Forest Service leaders in addition to improving forest health). 就是希望搞平衡,但现在的评估可能更倾向产更多木头。春秋笔法,通篇没有一句实证。我觉得做opinion piece比较符合。而且politico是左倾的网站并不中立。 资金短缺明显长期问题。而且这些都是民主党控制的州,那上一任民主党政府八年在忙什么?什么政策出台了帮助这个问题了? 木材业是Oregon第三大产业,对local 经济和就业影响巨大。你说到媒公司,煤公司对West Virginia, fracking 对宾州某些地区就跟timber industry 对Oregon一样,你不支持这些产业让local居民喝西北风去?或是问人家矿工 “why don’t you learn coding?”. Biden现在为了选票不是也改口说他没有不支持fracking了吗?你可能在纽约加州当个漂亮的白领,关心环保心怀天下,人家可是要这个工作养家糊口的。
后面就写了需要和资金的巨大差异啊?而且是因为他就像支持煤公司油公司污染一样支持木材行业啊?At the same time, the Trump administration has sent mixed signals to Forest Service leadership regarding what the agency’s management priorities should be. It would seem that reducing fuel loads that contribute to fire risk and improving forest health should be the top priority. But, political leadership in the Department of Agriculture has reinstituted timber targets as a performance measure for Forest Service leaders in addition to improving forest health. In other words, as anxiety rises about fire risk across federal lands, national forest managers are being rewarded for shifting attention and dollars away from the goal of smart maintenance. Meeting timber production goals has little to do with improving the health and resilience of national forest lands. However, it is an easy metric to assess the performance of forest managers as well as a way to satisfy the timber industry.川普的环保局EPA前局长,油公司代表Scott Pruitt自2003年起是专案组ALEC主席;继任局长煤公司代表Andrew Wheeler,上任一年之内的成就包括但不限于:削弱了煤灰中有毒污染物对水源污染的监管;提高化学致癌物PFAS不安全标准提高六倍;撤回奥巴马的《清洁水法Clean Water Act》;暂缓甲醛致癌风险报告;允许制造商继续使用已知的最致命致癌物质石棉;削弱燃煤电厂汞排放法规;撤回奥巴马的车辆碳排放标准;废除奥巴限制燃煤电厂碳排放量的《清洁能源计划Clean Power Plan》(EPA的重要性参见电影Dark Waters杜邦公司特氟龙事件)
爱与自由 发表于 9/16/2020 11:49:06 PM
a
ahqi
我还没说到打砸抢呢,打砸抢的是deserve jail time.如果不是某党某些有钱左左不停donate把人bail out. 我不认为他们代表支持平权的大多数,但是这个运动被这些人绑架leader们并没有出来反对而是在民意转变后才发声,主流媒体报道非常biased。 我说的是更可怕的正在发生的影响你我普通人生活的极端政治正确,文革一般的tactic: intimidation, gentrifications. 我就问你吧,现在在公司谁敢实名说一句all lives matter,或是提出BLM有不对的地方? 你跟我扯什么基督教这啊那的?十字军东征是1000多年前的事!基督教跟这个话题有什么关系吗?你那么讨厌基督教就因为flat earth society和那个博物馆? what points are you trying to make? 我早说了两边都有极端的,极端的都是不好的。不同的是你在不停的想要说trump是极右的,全是坏的。支持他或是说一些肯定的话都是有问题的。我并不认同。我觉得trump做的事情里有我支持的也有我不支持的,他的twitter言论我并不很关心,主要还是看他的政策,媒体里面我目前没看到赞美的基本都是谴责。那些对他的谴责,要看有没有hard evidence. 我是不会看个网站就信的,那样跟洗脑有什么区别?
扣帽子一定不是川粉,比如打砸抢的犯罪分子代表了几千万支持平权的都是跪黑人这么没逻辑的事儿基督教可信可不信?十字军东征了解一下?antisemitism了解一下?基督教恐怖主义wiki一下?极右翼枪手还少?对了新西兰大屠杀就是听了你家懂王的黑人网红Candace Owens的话受到启发呢
爱与自由 发表于 9/16/2020 11:44:03 PM