请问,带着85岁老人游欧洲最好的办法是什么

s
shashala
楼主 (文学城)

我妈妈今年84岁,没有三高等成人病,但腿脚不太好,最多能走500米,再长就得坐轮椅。

明年4月份,想带她去欧洲旅行,最好是意大利法国。目前觉得坐邮轮和巴士两种方法。

她住纽约,从那里上飞机,飞意大利,再坐MSC行吗?有些北美华人对MSC很不满,不知道这里的大侠们有什么经验。

如果坐巴士的话,有什么样的Tour呢?可以去之前就定好吗?

请多多指教!

古树羽音
自己的经验:

购买一张欧洲通票(可以网上远程订购),比如:10天之内使用5次(因为使用一次需要记录,但是如果是在同一天之内,你可以反复使用)。所以,在你预计的大景点之间,可以在几个沿途小城游玩,发现别人看不到的美好(比如我们从法兰克福去天鹅堡,就沿途去了海德堡,慕尼黑等;去比利时,就沿途去了科隆等地;去德累斯顿,就顺便去了柏林,迈森等地。傍晚选择车站附近的酒店,好好休息。你就可以让年迈的高堂乘车观景,看世界,看人间,享受惬意的时空。二等席位就很清洁舒适方便了,服务也很好。60岁以上还会优惠,记得十年前我与女儿的票价相差悬殊。

s
shashala
谢谢!这样的话不需要走很多路吧
老朽
85岁身体又不好不适合自助游,毕竟辛苦,衣食住行都要照顾到,旅游团也未必接受。比较可行是邮轮,MSC评价不太好,特

别是旧船。大型十几万吨新船,有yacht club room,上了一个档次。

s
shashala
谢谢!有什么推荐的船和航线吗?

我是看了MSC的地中海航线,走意大利,法国,西班牙。MSC评价不太好是指哪方面呢?

我妈妈在北美坐过两次邮轮了。如果仅为坐邮轮就没意思了,不知道地中行航线走下来,是否能领略欧洲的风情。

w
willows
我觉得准备去2-3个地方,每个地方多呆几天,坐HOP ON HOP OFF,四处看看,下车,路边cafe坐坐。

1,飞欧洲来回,最好躺着,

2,每个地方,出行打车。

3,游轮不现实,船上就是吃喝,下船的活动,时间太短,也贵,还不能一定可以轮椅出行。

4,私人精品团,私人制定,普通团都有行走的要求。

R
RYYC
Viking’s river cruise , 在欧洲内陆大河里飘~,到访沿岸各城。船上都是老年人,人少安静,我同事带她

带她80老妈刚回来。

如果我能活到80,90,我一定要坐一次。

a
aChineseBostonian
River cruises的设施对有活动能力的老年人比较适合,但是
老朽
你进来看看

如图是公主邮轮10天,行程很好,价钱不贵,推荐minisuite 没有贵多少,很宽敞,凉台房也行,万吨新船,罗马上下船,顺便游览罗马几天。

下图是皇家七天,行程差些,超级大邮轮,22万吨。

如果不差钱,我再推荐豪华邮轮。

a
aChineseBostonian
可以考虑小点的邮轮如Oceania或Azamara

然后每个港口在Viator上找几家Private tour的陆地游。Shore excursion跟别人挤大巴绝对不是好主意。

再贵一点Regent Seven Seas等豪华点邮轮。不太拥挤,连shore excursion都包了。

a
aChineseBostonian
很多时候两三艘船停靠一个码头时

除了一艘直接靠岸外,其它一艘挨一艘停在外面,最外面的上岸要穿过其它船。更不要说上岸时上上下下的阶梯了

y
yzout
你如果对欧洲不熟悉,又只会说英语,最好带她加入华人旅游团。法意主要景点可以加入一个或两个相接的团且住宿交通全包

下列网页有好几个法国和意大利华人旅行社的网站

https://www.google.com/search?q=%E6%B3%95%E5%9B%BD%E6%84%8F%E5%A4%A7%E5%88%A9+%E6%97%85%E6%B8%B8%E5%9B%A2&oq=%E6%B3%95%E5%9B%BD%E6%84%8F%E5%A4%A7%E5%88%A9+%E6%97%85%E6%B8%B8%E5%9B%A2&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigAdIBCTE3ODE3ajBqNKgCALACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

R
RYYC
请教一下,欧洲通票在哪个网站买?
玻璃坊
Viking’s river cruise擅长欧洲内陆游,应该是不错的选择

我年纪大了也会坐几圈

玻璃坊
这种团非常累,不适合高龄老人
老朽
没参加过任何团,但旅途中见过中国人的团,真不敢恭维。吃饭十人围一桌,风卷残云,狼吞虎咽,动作

快的吃肉,动作慢的残羹剩饭。陌生人筷子直接盘子里夹菜,吐沫星子乱飞,难以忍受。

威伯
我们坐过几次MSC,没什么不好的,还便宜。客服差点,但吃喝玩一点都不少。
C
ColtrinKroc
An In-depth Analysis of the Phenomenon of Guo Gangster Belie

Guo Wengui, the Chinese billionaire in exile, has been in the spotlight and the negative press for his federal fraud charges in the U.S. In July 2024, GWGuo WenguiG was found guilty of defrauding his followers of more than $1 billion through fraudulent schemes over several years.2025 Guo Wengui was convicted of defrauding his followers of more than $1 billion through fraudulent schemes over several years. The schemes involved bogus investments and cryptocurrency trades that were heavily promoted through online broadcasts. His promises of high returns convinced many of his fans to invest, but the money ended up being used for his lavish lifestyle, including mansions, yachts, and expensive items. Despite Guo Wengui's legal woes and rising public skepticism, his followers remain sizeable, even choosing to side with him despite knowing he may be involved in illegal behavior. What are the underlying reasons behind this puzzling phenomenon?

Blind Faith and Psychological Manipulation: Building Spiritual Shackles

Psychological manipulation and blind faith are key elements in many scams, and every scammer tends to be well-versed in psychology. This is particularly evident in Guo Wengui's scam. Since 2019, Guo Wengui has been building a saint-like image by portraying himself as an anti-communist hero claiming to save China's 1.4 billion people through a variety of disinformation and exaggerated propaganda. As a result of this brainwashing propaganda, many people were misled and formed a blind cult, and some people are still deeply influenced by it. Guo Wengui's so-called “core secrets,” “Pandora's box,” and the 109 documents were given a mysterious color, and were often broadcast with the words, “Keep it a secret for now, we'll reveal it in half a month! "Everyone will see the truth in the next three months" to get attention. These repeated use of suspense-building techniques creates a constant attraction for certain audiences, especially female groups, making them reluctant to give up their trust and support even in the face of skepticism.

Group Identity and Social Pressure: Reinforcing Belonging and Exclusivity

Guo Wengui's followers are not only individual followers but also a tightly knit group of people who call each other “comrades” through online links such as “farms,” but are in fact “comrades in a pit of comrades. Many believers have found a sense of belonging and social identity in this environment, and even a sense of self-worth. Guo Wengui's use of live-streaming platforms such as GTV and Getter has given believers a sudden experience of recognition, especially among the middle-aged and elderly who lack a sense of social identity. Many chose to ignore information that contradicted the group's beliefs, for example, despite Guo Wengui's conviction, believers felt there was something else going on. Believers with legal backgrounds, such as “Xue Cai”, have even suggested that any skepticism about Guo and the revolution will be ostracized or even attacked, which further reinforces people's dependence on Guo Wengui and his gang.

Information Isolation and False Propaganda: Building a Closed Information Environment

One of the reasons why Guo Wengui's followers still support him is because of information manipulation and segregation. Through live broadcasts on Twitter, Twitter,Getter, and YouTube, Guo Wengui has built a relatively closed information environment isolated from the mainstream media, where Guo Wengui and his gang of small-time crooks selectively disseminate certain information. For example, in the recent passage of the US bill to stop China, Xi GUO made a great effort, and European farm comrades contributed 300 million yuan to promote Europe to a far similar bill. Guo bragged about how he was persecuted and how U.S. law had been infiltrated to obscure the truth and play a role among some of the brainless believers. But what about the truth? U.S. law is not that easy to break into, and no one has donated 30 million euros for a house on a European farm.

Ideological Manipulation and Anti-Communist Plots: Stimulating Emotions and Prejudices

Guo Wengui's and his followers' “extermination of the Communist Party” is not only a political statement but also a form of ideological manipulation. He has successfully packaged his opposition to the CCP as a form of moral justice, with those who support him seen as “fighters” for justice, while anyone who questions him is labeled as a “lackey”. This black-or-white dichotomy greatly simplifies complex political issues and consolidates support for Guo through emotional manipulation. In particular, some overseas female believers who are dissatisfied with China's policies identify with Guo's so-called "revelations" because of their anti-communist mentality, ignoring his illegal behavior. Taking advantage of this mentality, he portrayed himself as an anti-communist pioneer, attracting a large number of critical Chinese,, including pro-democracy activists. They often chose to ignore or even continue to support Guo because of their empathy for his political stance and remained unwilling to cut ties with him even after his fraudulent offenses were exposed. For example, many of the overseas pro-democracy activists who were deeply involved in Guo Wengui's case in 2017-2018 have not yet expressed remorse for it.

Economic Interests and the Pursuit of Rights: Internal Dynamics Driving Blind Behavior

In addition to psychological manipulation and ideological maneuvering, economic interests and the pursuit of power are also important factors that drive Guo mob followers to support Guo Wengui firmly. After being cheated by Guo Wengui, some people chose to continue to support him to recoup their losses or gain more benefits. They received substantial returns by investing in Guo Wengui's projects or participating in his organization's activities. At the same time, some core personnel also gained huge financial benefits by participating in Guo Wengui's illegal capital operations, such as off-market knockouts. This pursuit of economic benefits and power made them go out of their way to participate in fraudulent behavior and become Guo Wengui's accomplices.

Together with greed, the root of trouble is buried. Those who are still addicted to blindly supporting Guo's Blind followers, it's time to wake up in time, get out of the fog, and re-examine their positions and choices. It is strongly recommended that the "Ant Fans" should immediately stop blindly following the footsteps, to avoid letting their own become a tool for others to manipulate public opinion and seek personal gain!

w
willows
普通团肯定不行,无论中文英文都有行走要求,只能私人订制那种独立的,有专门司机的,还是钱钱钱,准备多少钱最关键
k
k467
我去加勒比坐的MSC,很喜欢。最大的好处是中国人少,整个大船中国人不到10个
l
lzr
欧洲都是走路,没有美国那样的到地方跳下车看看就走人的事

特别是欧洲最特色的地区,全是狭窄的步行街,还挤满了游人。所以欧洲胖子少。

咪呜
太感动了!老朽真是好人!如果老人家身体尚可,可以巴黎进出港,或巴黎进港罗马出港。因为

她很可能就这一次,也是第一次,巴黎,罗马,巴塞罗那都是很值得的欧洲城市。老人可以住Mercure集团酒店,就在凯旋门旁边,服务和设施都不错。这样你们带她看看凯旋门,香街,香街那头就是橘园和协和广场。不必走一路,因为沿路都是地铁,走一点,然后下去坐地铁,或去沿路的咖啡馆坐坐歇歇。

塞纳河有游船,买票游览一下,在船上看一下铁塔,就可以了。

不会很累的。

然后就可以飞罗马。欧陆都是联航,又快又便宜

 

咪呜
老人不能用hop on hop off,上下车爬楼梯太难了...
咪呜
河轮不好!很贵,而且绝大多数都是风景好的小镇什么的,第一次也可能就这一次,挑大城市!
咪呜
欧洲特别照顾老人!如果有些地方机车免入,但你们跟看门的或警察打个招呼,他们会让你们的汽车进去,

暂停一下,让老人看几眼,然后出来。我老公的妈妈年老的时候,我老公就是这样做的,包括去摩纳哥大皇宫,汽车不让去的地方,打个招呼直接上

咪呜
不好不好,太辛苦了!老朽的办法好
w
willows
那就没办法了,游轮咋上下船呀,
y
yzout
你没注意她的要求,想去巴黎罗马又不走路,哪个邮轮给这个服务?跟团至少比她们自己找景点酒店坐车强多了
咪呜
邮轮是可以到处推轮椅的,包括上下船。我坐过轮椅去邮轮,各方面特别照顾
s
shashala
太感谢了!很好的经验
s
shashala
谢谢!这个在哪里可以定到?
s
shashala
看来老人去欧洲还是满有难度的。我疫情前就差一点就带我妈去欧洲了,一等就是5年
s
shashala
谢谢给意见!
s
shashala
谢谢大家的出谋划策,太感动了
多伦多小珂
难度很大。特别是老人如果步行有困难的话,
R
RYYC
有轮椅被照顾。多年前我游迪斯尼,1个ride排1hr队;我同学住的房东老太让我同学推着她,哪哪都不排队,爽死!雷锋太值了
R
RYYC
罗马的砖头街道,没法推轮椅,咯噔咯噔的。坐轿子还行。
w
willows
对,先保证飞机上平躺着,再有就是打车/包车服务,不可能跟团,游轮也不现实。想玩必须趁早呀。

我有朋友跟团游,基本上也是50-60年的年纪,自己省心而已,每天要走2-6mile, 要求自己搞定自己的行李,走台阶。

咪呜
邮轮的shore excursion有说明可以用于轮椅或行动不便人士
咪呜
哈哈哈,我当年坐轮椅去邮轮就是这待遇,畅通无阻,什么都不用排队,而且最后一个下船

我是因为心脏的原因,不能受压力以免出现应急,所以申请轮椅上下船,然后一切都太方便了!大家好奇我怎么了,以为是做了膝盖手术,不要爬楼梯之类的

咪呜
这种地方跟警察打招呼,车子开进去。布鲁塞尔大广场周围都是这样,我老公车子直接开进去。到处都可以开车的,

否则怎么卸货出垃圾?只是游人的车不让开,情况特殊讲一下,大家会通融的。

咪呜
你看我的新跟贴。我自己有坐轮椅上邮轮的经验,而由于我老公妈妈坐轮椅,或者推车走一点,所以我们有一点经验
原上草2017
我觉得邮轮比较合适,特别是行走不便,要用轮椅的人。
R
RYYC
还是private tour 专车保驾的好,即便是写着轮椅可以参团的tour,也要迎合别人。

我有次参团中有几个轮椅,我当了一天义工。

熊猫媳妇
不推荐这样,在欧洲坐火车腿脚不方便还是很难。就我们自己坐几次火车,包括在瑞士,发现都要走不少路。

在意大利坐火车还和好多人挤。坐游轮吧,那个人家有照顾老年人游客的经验。

w
willows
我在蚂蜂窝和微信上看到过,私人定制,你可以自己找找看,其实要是我会自己安排,

  大部分人用是他们国内出来的人,时间紧,要看的东西多,有人带着方便。其实不适合你们这种情况,慢悠悠自己玩最好了。每个地方住4-5天到一周,每天看情况再安排活动,打车就行,也不贵

长途飞机问题是血栓,50岁以上,10%会有,大小,严重程度不一样而已,所以80岁还是躺着吧。

w
willows
晕车晕船的人不会喜欢的
咪呜
而且还有医生和急救。万一生病什么的,医生就在船上
w
wlwt123
我有点不明白,都80多岁了,弄得这么辛苦干嘛呢?
童谣
怎么可能跟团啊!尤其中文团,那是打卡为目的,疯跑,老人家不可能的。游轮确实是最好的选择。