请大家尊重言论自由和思想自由,帮小谢兄说几句。

n
niersi
楼主 (文学城)

我个人看小谢的帖子真没有什么政治意图。但不幸被当成阶级敌人围殴,

茶坛是民主自由人士的聚集地。请大家尊重言论自由。思想自由。谢谢.

有政治意图也可以自由发言。谈政治都有政治意图。我观察很多海外华人其实希望共产党倒塌中国崩溃。这也是个人的自由,就像

很多人希望美国衰败一样。有国家和民族,就有这些问题。

不过有些情绪应该节制。比如杀死什么什么人,或者那种极端的,仇视或侮辱性的言论。而且,要保护小动物,但鸡精其实可以放心食用。
对了,说脏话是可以的。但争论时骂人其实不好。因为是简单宣泄没有智慧含量。一宣泄就像轮胎扎个洞,就跑不动了。
n
niersi
是的,我发现敏感话题会使人陷入 binary 状态,情绪会与之俱来

然后短路,好像思维不运作了。只是简单的二选一。conversation become defensive & attack. real communication lost.

我自己观察自己是这样。因此回避政治话题...

 

 

因为,既往人类进化中将政治正义与邪恶化了,而政治的斗争必须走向极端,这样才能产生变革的动力。所以,

当小谢和发工资大打出手时,其实社会是在前进的。所以,尼斯其实根本

不用担心。

当然了。政治斗争的受害者最终是人民群众、老百姓。所以,小谢和发工资打架。我们大家满脸是血。
n
niersi
我还是觉得人类非暴力是趋势,先是行动,然后慢慢去除语言和情绪暴力。。。
那是当然了。尼斯,把还是去掉。不打孩子,废除死刑,不打猎,都是进步。
p
papyrus
既然干预,相信干预者不会没看到,是干预者的朋友自己找上门来“殴斗”的(借用干预者言)。鱼王兄贴子的责任属于鱼王兄自己,不属于干预

者的朋友,更何况这楼还是传人兄起的。

虽如此,没有人否认过干预者的朋友有到任何地方 --- 包括到鱼王兄贴子的跟帖下面 ---“殴斗”的自由。

不用回帖。

n
niersi
古纸兄,君子不党,大家都是我的朋友。如果哪天你被围着'斗',我也会说话的。。。

好像民主的意义是:我可以不同意你的话,但尊重和捍卫你说话的权力。

p
papyrus
尼尔斯兄,相信你看到没有人否认你那位朋友说话的权力。再说也不必把这件事说得如此悲壮,不妨正能量一点,不叫“被围殴”,

叫“舌战群敌”

n
niersi
你要非用'敌'字我也没办法,还是问声周末好。。。
p
papyrus
啊,也是,你那位朋友用的原是“狗”字。 周末愉快
中间小谢
Thanks.

没有什么政治意图 - Certainly and clearly not, and that's why I just didn't understand how my comment was interpreted that way.

但不幸被当成阶级敌人围殴- I didn't feel that way at all. It wasn't that bad. One unfriendly ID didn't make 围殴. I did feel being disrespected, hence I returned in whatever language style used at me. I think it's fair.

It didn't really bother me that much. I don't think your friend is that bad an ID either, I won't judge an ID just by a few unpleasant comments from it.

 

 

 

 

n
niersi
谢谢,刚看到。这个字非常不好,有语言暴力,但他跟的贴似有情绪暴力,都不好。。:)
中间小谢
找上门来“殴斗” No, I didn't do that. I just left a comment

that I considered and still consider clear, harmless and meaningful.

Then your unfreindly comment followed and started the exchange of later unfriedly comments. The "dog" was only a return of the image that you had created - 叼盘 - I thought it suggested "dog". If I were wrong about this, you have my apology now. If I wasn't wrong, your comment deserved such a reply.

 

 

p
papyrus
有攻击别人的魄力,就要有被反击的胸怀,而不是一旦被反击就诉诸语言暴力。你最推崇“尊重”,相信会同意这一点
p
papyrus
“殴斗”一词,你真不理解“借用干预者言”是什么意思?至于“叼盘”,那楼里早以经出现了几次(比如鱼王兄贴里),相信你不会没看见
中间小谢
No clue. Too complicated for me. Peace.
p
papyrus
forget about it. it's not that important
未知
许多人对“言论自由”的理解是不准确的。看看美国最高法院是怎样判的,例如能不能烧美国国旗,能不能在影院高喊“着火了”?

前者可以,后者不可以。

https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-resources/about-educational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does

What Does Free Speech Mean?

Among other cherished values, the First Amendment protects freedom of speech. The U.S. Supreme Court often has struggled to determine what exactly constitutes protected speech. The following are examples of speech, both direct (words) and symbolic (actions), that the Court has decided are either entitled to First Amendment protections, or not.

The First Amendment states, in relevant part, that:

“Congress shall make no law...abridging freedom of speech.”

Freedom of speech includes the right: Not to speak (specifically, the right not to salute the flag).
West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943). Of students to wear black armbands to school to protest a war (“Students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate.”).
Tinker v. Des Moines, 393 U.S. 503 (1969). To use certain offensive words and phrases to convey political messages.
Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971). To contribute money (under certain circumstances) to political campaigns.
Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976). To advertise commercial products and professional services (with some restrictions).
Virginia Board of Pharmacy v. Virginia Consumer Council, 425 U.S. 748 (1976); Bates v. State Bar of Arizona, 433 U.S. 350 (1977). To engage in symbolic speech, (e.g., burning the flag in protest).
Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989); United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990). Freedom of speech does not include the right: To incite actions that would harm others (e.g., “[S]hout[ing] ‘fire’ in a crowded theater.”).
Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919). To make or distribute obscene materials.
Roth v. United States, 354 U.S. 476 (1957). To burn draft cards as an anti-war protest.
United States v. O’Brien, 391 U.S. 367 (1968). To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration. 
Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 (1988). Of students to make an obscene speech at a school-sponsored event.
Bethel School District #43 v. Fraser, 478 U.S. 675 (1986). Of students to advocate illegal drug use at a school-sponsored event.
Morse v. Frederick, __ U.S. __ (2007).
p
papyrus
网上没有法庭,没法执行:-),再说那些言论也产生不了什么实际效果,有时说出来反而更容易让大家看清言论发布者和朋友的真实面目