The greatest American debate on English grammar

r
renqiulan
楼主 (文学城)

Only Americans have the humility to call the United States an Imperfect Union. Only Americans have the audacity to promise themselves a More Perfect Union. We don't even care if "More Perfect" makes grammatical sense. But then we are Americans. Grammatical sense be damned.

Grammatical sense be damned? Not so fast.

In 1776 Americans had actually kicked off the greatest grammar debate in the history of the English-speaking world. To make the long story short, some of the American founders argued for "inalienable rights" regarding the early versions of the Declaration of Independence. When it came to the final version, though, they conceded to the majority who voted for "unalienable rights." Interestingly, modern American dictionaries prefer "inalienable" as a proper adjective. 

Unalienable rights, however, have long been declared enough but not exercised enough. Consequently or consequentially, our history shows a gnawing gap between rights declared and rights exercised. With that being said, this gnawing gap keeps narrowing. If that's not progress, I don't know what is.

Can we imagine a world without America? Can we imagine an America without unalienable rights enshrined in its Declaration of Independence?


Author: renqiulan

 

(Google image)

 

🔥 最新回帖

r
renqiulan
105 楼
really have a good point. Thanks a million!
r
renqiulan
104 楼
I would say, "More Perfect" makes rhetorical sense. But you
6
66的山梁
103 楼
恭贺盈盈荣任版主!
r
renqiulan
102 楼
感谢!
盈盈一笑间
101 楼
推荐文学城首页成功

 

🛋️ 沙发板凳

盈盈一笑间
沙发~ ~
r
renqiulan
Comfy?
盈盈一笑间
"inalienable rights" 和 "unalienable rights" 的差别
盈盈一笑间
Of course! haha
盈盈一笑间
Last summer I visited Philadelphia. It's an unforgettable
r
renqiulan
Actually, you are in the driving seat.
Z
Zhuzitaba
No grammar is perfect

Some people say that

neither 

"They nod their head."

nor

"They nod their heads."

is grammatically right.

盈盈一笑间
experience to learn and appreciate American history.
r
renqiulan
Well, "inalienable" originates from a combination of the
r
renqiulan
prefix in- and alienable via the Middle French aliénable.
r
renqiulan
It goes without saying that nothing is
r
renqiulan
truly perfect. Correct me if I'm wrong.
r
renqiulan
Like inalienable, unalienable originates from the
r
renqiulan
prefix un– and alienable via the Middle French aliénable
r
renqiulan
and was first recorded in 1610–20.
r
renqiulan
When I visited the Birthplace of American Independence
6
66的山梁
Wow, Qiulan is here! 问好!
r
renqiulan
in Philadelphia as a little kid, I thought it was a
r
renqiulan
school building!
r
renqiulan
Hi,66的山梁! How's it going?
盈盈一笑间
Thanks for sharing.How do you translate these two words into
盈盈一笑间
Chinese? What's the difference? :)
盈盈一笑间
The Independence Hall in Philadelphia?haha
r
renqiulan
Could you give it a try. in the context of the
r
renqiulan
First Amendment?
盈盈一笑间
Absolutely! We're all in this together. :)
盈盈一笑间
欢迎66来美坛,问好 ~ ~
方外居士
inalienable: 不可剥夺的。unalienable:未被剥夺的。
r
renqiulan
And the cracked Liberty Bell...
盈盈一笑间
查了中英字典,都是 ”不可剥夺的“的意思?
r
renqiulan
so imperfect and yet so indispensable to a noble cause.
盈盈一笑间
多谢居士兄分享
r
renqiulan
Close. It implies something that is "God-given."
r
renqiulan
They both originate from a Middle French term "aliénable."
方外居士
inalienable: 不可剥夺的。unalienable:没有可剥夺的。
r
renqiulan
可以意译作‘’天赋权利‘’吗?
盈盈一笑间
应该是这个意思。

非常好的帖子!大赞!

多谢秋兰的分享!

我明天一早要上班。晚安了  :)

T
TJKCB
[unalienable rights] = Chinglish :-)
方外居士
Same as 不可剥夺的
7
7grizzly
Why? I thought the 2nd was correct. No?
盈盈一笑间
Just like "long time no see"?
方外居士
哈哈哈,可否演义一二?
7
7grizzly
When a story is that good, its grammar is moot :-)
r
renqiulan
I doubt it.
r
renqiulan
Goodnight, 盈盈!
r
renqiulan
You have a good answer to your good question.
r
renqiulan
Thank you, 方外居士!
颤音
in- vs un-,感觉头很大,哈哈哈,谢谢秋兰
r
renqiulan
Would you care to elaborate? Thank you, TJKCB !
r
renqiulan
Yup, that.
方外居士
同感!头痛病一直没有好过!
r
renqiulan
请方外居士作指路明灯!
r
renqiulan
You are not serious, are you?
r
renqiulan
开国诸君已投票通过了"unalienable",这是史实。当然,史实未必符合现实。
r
renqiulan
方外居士保重!
r
renqiulan
颤音好,谢谢!
C
CBA7
Perfect is perfect, perfect can't be more perfect for sure!
方外居士
“天赋人权”仅仅是用了宗教性的语言来说同一件事,make it holly-like
C
CBA7
A world without America would be imperfect,
C
CBA7
especially no MYSJ any more :)
r
renqiulan
Our founding fathers had a good sense of humor, right?
7
7grizzly
Why not?
r
renqiulan
I hate to break it to you, but a world WITH America is still
C
CBA7
Great post by a great MYSJ painter Qiulan :) 谢谢秋兰分享。
r
renqiulan
IMPERFECT!
C
CBA7
You're absolutely right.
r
renqiulan
Don't get me wrong, though. I mean, chasing perfection is
C
CBA7
Anyway, a world WITH America is MORE perfect :)
r
renqiulan
like chasing sunrise. We need to see hope on the horizon.
C
CBA7
Yes, they did :)
r
renqiulan
I'm taking a joy ride. You're doing the heavy lifting.
C
CBA7
Great thought. I cannot agree more.
r
renqiulan
Or less imperfect. Yin and yang.
r
renqiulan
Now you are really serious. I like that. Goodnight!
r
renqiulan
Thanks. Call it chicken soup for the soul.
r
renqiulan
American founders are all religious men.
C
CBA7
Yes, less imperfect! Perfect word pick!
r
renqiulan
I'm just finger-painting something, like a preschooler. Haha
C
CBA7
You're too humble. If that is the case, then I'm a newborn.
r
renqiulan
See? I'm shrewd enough to err on the safe side.
r
renqiulan
Speaking of "a newborn," Homer's following verse comes back
r
renqiulan
to me: "When the early-born (ērigeneia), rose-fingered
r
renqiulan
(rhododaktylos) dawn appeared." This, I'm told, is an
r
renqiulan
ancient Greek phrase used by Homer to say
r
renqiulan
"when the day broke out." Homer IS truly a painter.
C
CBA7
See, you know everything! Thank you for sharing.
r
renqiulan
I know NOTHING. I'm trying to dream up something. Goodnight!
C
CBA7
Good night. Best wishes to your dream :)
方外居士
心灵鸡汤!
T
TJKCB
unalienable rights vs. long time no see = Chinglish :-),,,,

The phrase "[unalienable rights] = Chinglish :-)" is a playful and somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment that draws attention to the use of the term "unalienable rights" in the context of the Declaration of Independence and how it may be perceived in contemporary language.

Here's an explanation of the elements in the comment:

"[Unalienable Rights]": This refers to the phrase "unalienable rights," which appears in the Declaration of Independence. It means rights that cannot be surrendered, transferred, or taken away because they are considered inherent and fundamental to every individual.

"Chinglish":-): The term "Chinglish" is a blend of "Chinese" and "English" and is used to describe a form of language or communication that results from the literal translation of Chinese phrases into English, often leading to humorous or awkward expressions. It's typically used to highlight translation or language quirks in a light-hearted manner.

"Just like 'long time no see'?": This part of the comment draws a parallel between the use of "unalienable rights" and the phrase "long time no see." "Long time no see" is considered an example of Chinglish because it's a direct translation of a Chinese phrase (好久不见, hǎo jiǔ bù jiàn) into English. It's not a standard English phrase but is widely understood and used informally.

So, the comment playfully suggests that "unalienable rights" may seem like an unusual or awkward phrase in modern English, similar to how "long time no see" is considered an unusual but accepted expression. It's a lighthearted way of highlighting the historical and linguistic aspects of the Declaration of Independence while acknowledging that language can evolve and sometimes produce idiosyncratic phrases over time.

**

"unalienable rights" may seem like an unusual or awkward phrase in modern English, similar to how "long time no see" is considered an unusual but accepted expression. It's a lighthearted way of highlighting the historical and linguistic aspects of the Declaration of Independence while acknowledging that language can evolve and sometimes produce idiosyncratic phrases over time.

The preference for "unalienable rights" over "inalienable rights" in the context of the Declaration of Independence and American discourse is rooted in historical and linguistic factors. Here's an explanation of this preference and the distinction:

1. Historical Influence: The terms "unalienable rights" and "inalienable rights" are used interchangeably in many contexts and have similar meanings. However, in the context of the Declaration of Independence, "unalienable rights" is the term that Thomas Jefferson used in his draft of the document. This specific wording holds historical significance, as it is the version that was adopted and signed by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776. The historical document itself, with "unalienable rights," is a foundational symbol of American independence and ideals.

2. Linguistic Evolution: The preference for "unalienable" in American usage could also be influenced by the evolving nature of language. Language is dynamic, and over time, word forms and meanings can change. In this case, "unalienable" and "inalienable" both convey the idea of rights that cannot be transferred or surrendered, but "unalienable" is the term that gained prominence and acceptance in the United States. It's possible that the unique linguistic history of American English contributed to this preference.

3. Regional Variations: American English and British English often exhibit differences in spelling, vocabulary, and usage. These variations can result from historical, cultural, and linguistic factors. In the case of "unalienable rights," it reflects the American preference for a particular form of the term that has become deeply ingrained in American political and historical discourse.

Overall, the preference for "unalienable rights" in American usage, as seen in the Declaration of Independence, can be attributed to its historical significance and linguistic evolution within the United States. While "inalienable rights" is a valid term and is used in other English-speaking countries, "unalienable rights" is firmly established in American history and remains a key phrase associated with American ideals of liberty and independence.

天玉之
哈哈,有趣!Sounds more like a communist country with the unaliena

-ble rights : )

Z
Zhuzitaba
Second might mean that each of them has more than one head

此时此刻,中文就好了:他们点点头。无关单复数

Z
Zhuzitaba
inalienable = unalienable :) In my area, instable = unstable
d
dhyang_wxc
According to etymology dictionary, in- means "not,

opposite of, without"; un- means simply "not". The americans appreciate simple. 

一个猜想:For open ended questions, un-; for close ended or half-half questions, in-. There is untrue, ungodly, no intrue, ingodly. Undo, yes, Indo-, no...

 

 

 

r
renqiulan
Thanks for your thoughts.
r
renqiulan
Ditto in my neck of the woods.
r
renqiulan
From where you took off, you could let your imagination fly.