我2021年买了一辆RV停在家门前。 Sub-HOA 说我们violate 了CC&R。 我们对CC&R有不同的理解。 HOA 先是派了一个board member 来调查。 我们按照他的建议做了improvement并把照片寄给他。他将照片转给HOA Manager. Manager 回复email, "The pictures and resolution you made with XXX is fine. We'll save this in our records. We believe you represent the rest of the board in resolving this concern. Case closed".
Master HOA 也给我们email, " I have confirmed with Sub, that you have met all of the criteria"
但是隔了几个月，2022年， Sub-HOA 重新提起此事，说RV不能停. 我们要求HOA 解释为什么要更改以前的决定？ 为此举行了三次HOA听证会，但是一直没有解释为什么要改变以前的决定。 这期间HOA 请了律师参加了其中的两次听证会，并写了两封律师信给我们，只是重申我们违反了CC&R，不挪车到了dead line 就要罚款和Towing away, 但并没有解释为什么改变以前的决定. 后来收到HOA一封Email， 说是“original words as “It’s expected that board members update on concerns among themselves. It was found out that they’re not aware of this arrangement at all.” 我们在dead line 之前已经将RV 挪走了，本以为没事了。没想到这个月收到了律师的一封信， 要我们再参加听证会，并reimburse the HOA attorney‘s fee of $10,680 per the CC&R。我们去信要求HOA对该罚款给出itemization， 至今尚未收到HOA回复，只说他们working on the redacted invoices。
我们的房子是condor. 我们买RV之前问过SubHOA， 回答是Master HOA 管这事（有Email）为证。 我们又打电话问Master HOA， 回答是只要不block the drive way 就可以。 可惜我们没有让他们书面写下。以前也没有HOA这方面的经验。 我们后来经过第一次听证会阐述对CC&R的 不同理解， 并由HOA 派了一个board member检查后， 得到SubHOA的email, 如上面说的” you represent the rest of the board in resolving this concern. the case closed". Master HOA manager 也email 给我们， “I have confirmed with Sub, that you have met all of the criteria". 我们后来参加的几次听证会，只是想让HOA解释一下他们为什么改变以前的决定，想心平气和的把问题说清楚，也不想激化矛盾，所以在他们最后设的dead line之前就把RV挪到RV Storage去了。我们也并没有请律师。他们的律师也没有在信上解释为什么要改变以前的决定，只是引用CC&R section 说我们violate CC&R. 没想到到最后引来他们的律师狮子大开口。现在就想知道应该如何做？ 如果要去arbitration, 是必须去court? 还是可以去small claim before we pay them? 谢谢老猫和柠檬！
（A） 买车后于２０２１年１０月和Sub-HOA 举行过一次听证会， Sub-HOA 派了一个Board member来检查过后， Sub-HOA manager email 给他并Copy给我们说 “The pictures and resolution you made with xxx is fine. We’ll save this in our records. We believe you represent the rest of the Board in resolving this concern. Case closed.” Master HOA也Email 给我们 “I have confirmed with the sub, that you have met all of the criteria,” 这就是我们一直和HOA抗争的原因，他们既然已经同意了，为什么要更改原先的决定。
（B） 我们只是问了一下加固水泥地面的方案，并没有申请和实施。因为估计HOA也不会批准，所以后来就直接在HOA设定的dead line date 之前把车挪到外面付费的RV storage去了。 因此不存在谁出钱加固的问题。
1. Received 1st email from Sub HOA for parking violation per CC&R section 7.6.4 on 7/29 /202
(refer to evidence #1: HOA email dated as 7-28-2021)
2. Homeowner has a different understanding of the CC&R; Homeowner attended the first Sub HOA hearing meeting on 8/26/2021. At the meeting, the board assigned an HOA Member LT to investigate the case.
3. HOA board member (LT) completed the investigation. Sent report to HOA Board Community Manager JM for approval on 9/10/2021. The email was CCed to the homeowner as well.
4. 10/7/2021 JM (HOA Board Community Manager) sent an email back to LT and CCed the homeowner as: “The pictures and resolution you made with NNN(homeowner) is fine. We’ll save this in our records. We believe you (LT) represent the rest of the Board in resolving this concern. Case closed.”
(Refer to evidence #2: JM email dated 10/7/2021)
5. Received Master HOA’s letter for the same issue. After discussing with Sub HOA, Master HOA emailed to homeowner “have confirmed with the sub, that you have met all of the criteria,” at 1/21/2022
（refer to evidence #3, master HOA email dated 1/21/2022）
6. 5/11/2022. Sub HOA emailed the homeowner again to request to move the RV out with no new reasons. The homeowner requests a hearing to explain the reasons for the conflict message.
7. HOA sent another violation letter dated 6/17/2022 which is the same as the letter before
(refer to evidence #4, HOA email dated 6/17/2022）The homeowner continues to send HOA emails to ask the same question what has been changed
8. Received the 1st attorney letter at 8/22/2022
(Refer to evidence #5 1st attorney’s letter)
9. Homeowners attend the 2nd Sub HOA hearing. The homeowner asked for an explanation for the conflict messages. There was no answer to the homeowner’s question.
10. Homeowner forwarded JM’s approval email (evidence #2) to both JM and LT to remind the HOA’s original decision on 9/14/2022
11. JM replied email on 9/14 /2022, stating out his email ( evidence #2) was under the assumption that we ( homeowner )’ve communicated with the Board in advance, that we (homeowner)’ve represented the Board, and that they’re ( board) also aware of our arrangement with the other board members. JM’s original words “It’s expected that board members update on concerns among themselves. It was found out that they’re not aware of this arrangement at all.”
12. On the same day 9/14/2022, LT(who represents the board invested in our case but left HOA in 2022) reply to JM’s email as “During that time, I was on the board and representing the board in the meeting to handle the case. Please review the meeting minutes of the hearing for this case.
(refer to evidence #6 JM, LT email date at 9/14/2022)
13. The homeowner requested to review the HOA 8/26/2021 Meeting minutes. The requests were rejected by HOA member G, who said by law, the hearing section of the meeting minutes cannot share with the homeowner
(refer the evidence #7 sub-HOA G’s email response about the meeting minutes)
14. Homeowner attend 3rd Sub HOA hearing at 9/29/2022. HOA brought a lawyer to the meeting to hear both sides. The hearing section last less than 30 minutes. The homeowner showed the conflict message as evidence. No conclusion from the lawyer and HOA.
15. The homeowner received the second letter from the attorney dated 10/4/2022. Without a single word about the conflict HOA messages, the letter forced the homeowner to move the RV out within 15 days plus a $50 fine.
(refer to the evidence #8 Attorney’s letter #2)
16. The homeowner moved the RV out within 15 days, Homeowner has never paid the fine since there has never been a bill mailed to the homeowner.
17. 5/5/2023 Homeowner receives 3rd letter from the attorney. The letter first explained the reason for the HOA conflict decision is due to “You asserted, at the hearing that a Board member (since departed from the Board) had told you in 2021 that the parking of RV had been approved. However, any such unilateral representation was unauthorized by the board as a whole”.
18. the same letter requests the homeowner to reimburse the HOA attorney’s fee of $10,680 per the CC&R section 5.4.
(refer to evidence #9, attorney ‘s letter #3)
19. The homeowner requested to itemize the attorney fee at $10680.
(refer to evidence #10, Homeowner’s email 5/9/2023)
這個東西，你沒有戲，因為你們的情況根本不合於 bylaws 中的規定與當地的法規，簡單的說，那個同意你們可以停車的決定是錯誤的，因為這個決定本身不合法，這是為什麼，代表 HOA 的律師會與你們有後續的爭議，因為你們自己也很清楚，這個最初的決定與 bylaws 中的規定不符，事實上，這就如同比賽，裁判吹錯了哨，然後球員要求從現在起，按這個錯誤，以後就照這個來判，這是不可能也不正確的處理方式，因此，HOA 不能罰您在更正這個錯誤判斷之前，停車的行為，因為你們是按前面的決定來處理，但是一旦更正瞭前面的錯誤，你的 HOA 就能依據您違停，要求您挪動車輛，同時對您開罰。所以回答您的問題，他们既然已经同意了，为什么要更改原先的决定。因為原先的決定不合法。
事實上，如果你們在第一次得到 HOA 同意之後，立即提出設計申請，同時僱人加固停車場水泥地面，(完全依據 bylaws 中的要求來處理)，那麼你們就有話說，因為你們完全按著 bylaws 中的要求去做
現在 HOA 要的應該不是罰金，而是律師費 與你們糾纏更正這個決定定，一般的情況，HOA 可以自行吸收這個費用，但是如果他們不願意這樣做，你也沒有話說。
我2021年买了一辆RV停在家门前。 Sub-HOA 说我们violate 了CC&R。 我们对CC&R有不同的理解。 HOA 先是派了一个board member 来调查。 我们按照他的建议做了improvement并把照片寄给他。他将照片转给HOA Manager. Manager 回复email, "The pictures and resolution you made with XXX is fine. We'll save this in our records. We believe you represent the rest of the board in resolving this concern. Case closed".
Master HOA 也给我们email, " I have confirmed with Sub, that you have met all of the criteria"
但是隔了几个月，2022年， Sub-HOA 重新提起此事，说RV不能停. 我们要求HOA 解释为什么要更改以前的决定？ 为此举行了三次HOA听证会，但是一直没有解释为什么要改变以前的决定。 这期间HOA 请了律师参加了其中的两次听证会，并写了两封律师信给我们，只是重申我们违反了CC&R，不挪车到了dead line 就要罚款和Towing away, 但并没有解释为什么改变以前的决定. 后来收到HOA一封Email， 说是“original words as “It’s expected that board members update on concerns among themselves. It was found out that they’re not aware of this arrangement at all.” 我们在dead line 之前已经将RV 挪走了，本以为没事了。没想到这个月收到了律师的一封信， 要我们再参加听证会，并reimburse the HOA attorney‘s fee of $10,680 per the CC&R。我们去信要求HOA对该罚款给出itemization， 至今尚未收到HOA回复，只说他们working on the redacted invoices。
请问我们应该如何应对？ 谢谢!!
estoppel 是指HOA律师给我的信是我要遵守的吗？那么多的费用我是必须付的吗？我有什么办法去抗争或减少律师费吗？我应该怎么做比较好？
這個故事，你只說了 1/3，真正的問題是，HOA 请了律师参加了其中的两次听证会，并写了两封律师信给我们，只是重申我们违反了CC&R，這個部分需要更多細節，你們是否曾經威脅 HOA 要採取法律訴訟?
我们的房子是condor. 我们买RV之前问过SubHOA， 回答是Master HOA 管这事（有Email）为证。 我们又打电话问Master HOA， 回答是只要不block the drive way 就可以。 可惜我们没有让他们书面写下。以前也没有HOA这方面的经验。 我们后来经过第一次听证会阐述对CC&R的 不同理解， 并由HOA 派了一个board member检查后， 得到SubHOA的email, 如上面说的” you represent the rest of the board in resolving this concern. the case closed". Master HOA manager 也email 给我们， “I have confirmed with Sub, that you have met all of the criteria". 我们后来参加的几次听证会，只是想让HOA解释一下他们为什么改变以前的决定，想心平气和的把问题说清楚，也不想激化矛盾，所以在他们最后设的dead line之前就把RV挪到RV Storage去了。我们也并没有请律师。他们的律师也没有在信上解释为什么要改变以前的决定，只是引用CC&R section 说我们violate CC&R. 没想到到最后引来他们的律师狮子大开口。现在就想知道应该如何做？ 如果要去arbitration, 是必须去court? 还是可以去small claim before we pay them? 谢谢老猫和柠檬！
同時，arbitration 是雙方都同意，才可以進行，小額庭，這個數目可能超過上限，所以最終，可能需要上正規民事庭。
同時，condor之前，停 RV，確實有些過份，大型車輛停在一般的家用車停車場，確實會給其他人造成不便。(一個車位，肯定不夠停)
至於律師費，不是你得出錢，就是所有住戶平均分攤，所以不找你，找誰?
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%A6%81%E6%AD%A2%E5%8F%8D%E8%A8%80
你的原话
Master HOA 也给我们email, " I have confirmed with Sub, that you have met all of the criteria"
但是隔了几个月，2022年， Sub-HOA 重新提起此事，说RV不能停. 我们要求HOA 解释为什么要更改以前的决定？
下面是CC&R 律师引用的部分，因为比较长， 您不一定需要全看完，但因为我法律知识有限，不知哪些重要，所以全贴在这里备用。很不好意思耽误您和柠檬大侠的宝贵时间。
因为我们的property 是在dead end, 不影响别人的进出，且我们事先都问了周围三家用户，说没有影响，且都签署了不受影响的信给HOA了。我们以前和HOA的主要争论是为什么把同意board menber represent the board investigated, approved, closed 的问题又拿出来不同意了，要给个说法。后来发现他们讲不出理由为什么要改变以前的决定，也就觉得多一事不如少一事，在dead line date之前就把RV挪走了。 只是在这最后一封信里他们才讲到
现在的问题变成要和他们抗争这一万块钱了。 如果没付这钱也可以去small claim court请法官断案或者在small claim court mediation, 那我们是否可以就按要求用少或等于一万块去申诉？
下面是摘自律师的最后一封来信：
非常感谢！！
谁没事去这么多纸里面找事实，如果你要去打官司你也得自己总结事实给法官看，不能把这么多文字往庭上一拍。
所以，作为练习，请你把事实从时间上捋一下，给我们一个提纲。
依據你的 HOA 相關的 bylaws
(A) 你停車的地方是否"事前"得到管理單位的批准，可以停 RV ?
(B) 同時，不論是過去或是現在，你停車的地方是否已經用水泥將地面加固? 如果是，誰出的錢去做這些加固的工作? 還有是，這個改變路面的工程是否經過 HOA 的委員會，同意?
回复老猫
（A） 买车后于２０２１年１０月和Sub-HOA 举行过一次听证会， Sub-HOA 派了一个Board member来检查过后， Sub-HOA manager email 给他并Copy给我们说 “The pictures and resolution you made with xxx is fine. We’ll save this in our records. We believe you represent the rest of the Board in resolving this concern. Case closed.” Master HOA也Email 给我们 “I have confirmed with the sub, that you have met all of the criteria,” 这就是我们一直和HOA抗争的原因，他们既然已经同意了，为什么要更改原先的决定。
（B） 我们只是问了一下加固水泥地面的方案，并没有申请和实施。因为估计HOA也不会批准，所以后来就直接在HOA设定的dead line date 之前把车挪到外面付费的RV storage去了。 因此不存在谁出钱加固的问题。
Brief Case History
0. RV purchased @ 3/31/2021
1. Received 1st email from Sub HOA for parking violation per CC&R section 7.6.4 on 7/29 /202
(refer to evidence #1: HOA email dated as 7-28-2021)
2. Homeowner has a different understanding of the CC&R; Homeowner attended the first Sub HOA hearing meeting on 8/26/2021. At the meeting, the board assigned an HOA Member LT to investigate the case.
3. HOA board member (LT) completed the investigation. Sent report to HOA Board Community Manager JM for approval on 9/10/2021. The email was CCed to the homeowner as well.
4. 10/7/2021 JM (HOA Board Community Manager) sent an email back to LT and CCed the homeowner as: “The pictures and resolution you made with NNN(homeowner) is fine. We’ll save this in our records. We believe you (LT) represent the rest of the Board in resolving this concern. Case closed.”
(Refer to evidence #2: JM email dated 10/7/2021)
5. Received Master HOA’s letter for the same issue. After discussing with Sub HOA, Master HOA emailed to homeowner “have confirmed with the sub, that you have met all of the criteria,” at 1/21/2022
（refer to evidence #3, master HOA email dated 1/21/2022）
6. 5/11/2022. Sub HOA emailed the homeowner again to request to move the RV out with no new reasons. The homeowner requests a hearing to explain the reasons for the conflict message.
7. HOA sent another violation letter dated 6/17/2022 which is the same as the letter before
(refer to evidence #4, HOA email dated 6/17/2022）The homeowner continues to send HOA emails to ask the same question what has been changed
8. Received the 1st attorney letter at 8/22/2022
(Refer to evidence #5 1st attorney’s letter)
9. Homeowners attend the 2nd Sub HOA hearing. The homeowner asked for an explanation for the conflict messages. There was no answer to the homeowner’s question.
10. Homeowner forwarded JM’s approval email (evidence #2) to both JM and LT to remind the HOA’s original decision on 9/14/2022
11. JM replied email on 9/14 /2022, stating out his email ( evidence #2) was under the assumption that we ( homeowner )’ve communicated with the Board in advance, that we (homeowner)’ve represented the Board, and that they’re ( board) also aware of our arrangement with the other board members. JM’s original words “It’s expected that board members update on concerns among themselves. It was found out that they’re not aware of this arrangement at all.”
12. On the same day 9/14/2022, LT(who represents the board invested in our case but left HOA in 2022) reply to JM’s email as “During that time, I was on the board and representing the board in the meeting to handle the case. Please review the meeting minutes of the hearing for this case.
(refer to evidence #6 JM, LT email date at 9/14/2022)
13. The homeowner requested to review the HOA 8/26/2021 Meeting minutes. The requests were rejected by HOA member G, who said by law, the hearing section of the meeting minutes cannot share with the homeowner
(refer the evidence #7 sub-HOA G’s email response about the meeting minutes)
14. Homeowner attend 3rd Sub HOA hearing at 9/29/2022. HOA brought a lawyer to the meeting to hear both sides. The hearing section last less than 30 minutes. The homeowner showed the conflict message as evidence. No conclusion from the lawyer and HOA.
15. The homeowner received the second letter from the attorney dated 10/4/2022. Without a single word about the conflict HOA messages, the letter forced the homeowner to move the RV out within 15 days plus a $50 fine.
(refer to the evidence #8 Attorney’s letter #2)
16. The homeowner moved the RV out within 15 days, Homeowner has never paid the fine since there has never been a bill mailed to the homeowner.
17. 5/5/2023 Homeowner receives 3rd letter from the attorney. The letter first explained the reason for the HOA conflict decision is due to “You asserted, at the hearing that a Board member (since departed from the Board) had told you in 2021 that the parking of RV had been approved. However, any such unilateral representation was unauthorized by the board as a whole”.
18. the same letter requests the homeowner to reimburse the HOA attorney’s fee of $10,680 per the CC&R section 5.4.
(refer to evidence #9, attorney ‘s letter #3)
19. The homeowner requested to itemize the attorney fee at $10680.
(refer to evidence #10, Homeowner’s email 5/9/2023)
這個東西，你沒有戲，因為你們的情況根本不合於 bylaws 中的規定與當地的法規，簡單的說，那個同意你們可以停車的決定是錯誤的，因為這個決定本身不合法，這是為什麼，代表 HOA 的律師會與你們有後續的爭議，因為你們自己也很清楚，這個最初的決定與 bylaws 中的規定不符，事實上，這就如同比賽，裁判吹錯了哨，然後球員要求從現在起，按這個錯誤，以後就照這個來判，這是不可能也不正確的處理方式，因此，HOA 不能罰您在更正這個錯誤判斷之前，停車的行為，因為你們是按前面的決定來處理，但是一旦更正瞭前面的錯誤，你的 HOA 就能依據您違停，要求您挪動車輛，同時對您開罰。所以回答您的問題，他们既然已经同意了，为什么要更改原先的决定。因為原先的決定不合法。
事實上，如果你們在第一次得到 HOA 同意之後，立即提出設計申請，同時僱人加固停車場水泥地面，(完全依據 bylaws 中的要求來處理)，那麼你們就有話說，因為你們完全按著 bylaws 中的要求去做
現在 HOA 要的應該不是罰金，而是律師費 與你們糾纏更正這個決定定，一般的情況，HOA 可以自行吸收這個費用，但是如果他們不願意這樣做，你也沒有話說。
目前我有什么办法减少损失呢？ 请律师能减少损失吗？会不会反而增加更多的开销？什么是最好的办法？ 我只知道IDR， mediation, and Arbitrary？ 哪个比较好？要请律师做吗？自己可以做吗?
你現在是魚肉，人家是刀俎，如何處理，要看對方的意願。(你的問題，就是你是用"客戶是神"的思維，與真正專業的管理公司/律師，玩梭哈，這是為什麼你現在會面對這個麻煩，老貓要是你，找專業的律師與對方接觸是第一步。