back door Roth,我和猛牛的对话新开个帖

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USATiger
楼主 (文学城)

大家去开一个吧,这个是高收入的,主要的功能是以后增长的钱,不要交税

打电话确认了,一人六千 per year,增加的不收税如果59.5岁后,开户五年。我去给我和老婆各开一个,total 4个帐户,四月前,可以加去年 具体的做法是开个传统的IRA先, 存进去,然后上马转成Roth,再买股票

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/backdoor-roth-ira.asp

The main advantage of a backdoor Roth IRA—as with Roths in general—is that you pay taxes upfront on your contributions, and everything after that is tax-free. This characteristic is most beneficial if you think tax rates are going to rise in the future, or that your taxable income will be higher after you retire than it is now.

 

 

 

U
USATiger
五十岁以上,可以七千,我一直知道,但是没有去做
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USATiger
这个还自己控制拿多少出来。钱不多,十年后也能有个几十万,呵呵
高筋粉
有点迷糊了,这句话怎么理解?到底有没有$6000的限制?好像没有六千限制?谢谢

Roth IRA contribution limits: For 2020 and 2021, you can contribute $6,000 each year ($7,000, if you are age 50 or over) to a Roth IRA.3? With a backdoor Roth IRA conversion, these limits don’t apply.
U
USATiger
你的钱先要进一个传统的IRA or 401k先,然后才能进Roth
U
USATiger
传统的IRA一年六千,如果你covert right away,结果还是限制还是六千块
高筋粉
谢谢。传统的IRA是non deductible IRA 对吧?如果连Roth IRA 都用走后门了,那肯定是不能放 pre t

那肯定pre tax traditional IRA 更加不可能了啊。越研究越晕菜了

 

U
USATiger
See inside

What is traditional Roth? With a Roth IRA, you contribute after-tax dollars, your money grows tax-free, and you can generally make tax- and penalty-free withdrawals after age 59½. With a Traditional IRA, you contribute pre- or after-tax dollars, your money grows tax-deferred, and withdrawals are taxed as current income after age  
U
USATiger
当你转传统去Roth 要交税,然后就没税了,关健是要马上转。
U
USATiger
如果你收入低,可以直接进Roth,back door Roth 是为收入高的,美国的tax是复杂和许多loophole 的
高筋粉
哦,谢谢
高筋粉
谢谢。传统IRA也分两种,一种deductible IRA, 一种non deductible. 你开的传统IRA,是non d

你新开的传统IRA,是non deductible IRA吧?

 

U
USATiger
没听说传统的有两个。只知道是pre tax money, 理论应该算可以减税的
高筋粉
可是如果你Roth 都得走后门了,证明收入很高,那么减税的pre tax IRA 更加不可能让你存了啊!
U
USATiger
there is no maximum traditional IRA income limit.

https://www.fool.com/retirement/plans/ira/income-limits/

 

Is there a traditional IRA income limit?

No, there is no maximum traditional IRA income limit. Anyone can contribute to a traditional IRA. While a Roth IRA has a strict income limit and those with earnings above it cannot contribute at all, no such rule applies to a traditional IRA.

This doesn't mean your income doesn't matter at all, though. While you can make non-deductible contributions to a traditional IRA no matter how much money you earn, you are subject to an income limit for deductible contributions if either you or your spouse has access to a workplace retirement plan. These limits vary depending on which of you has a retirement plan at work. 

 

L
LiveInMatrix
你是对的,Traditional IRA, 也就是pre-tax IRA, 是有income限制的

MAGI在$75,000 single, $125,000 joint完全phase out

U
USATiger
Yes, for tax benefit only

Traditional IRAs

Traditional IRAs allow you to invest pre-tax income toward your retirement. These contributions can grow tax deferred until you withdraw them, and they can be tax deductible, too. While anyone can contribute to this type of IRA (regardless of income), there are some restrictions.

You can deduct up to $6,000 in 2020 and in 2021 or $7,000 if you’re 50 or over (this is an aggregate limit for traditional and Roth IRAs). Contributions are also fully tax deductible if neither you nor your spouse has a workplace retirement plan. But tax deduction eligibility begins to phase out for higher earners.

In 2020, it begins to phase out at:

$65,000 in household income for a single filer $104,000 in combined income for a married joint filer with a workplace plan $196,000 for a married joint filer whose spouse has a workplace plan.

In 2021, eligibility to deduct contributions begins to phase out at:

$66,000 for single filers $105,000 for a married joint filer with a workplace plan $198,000 for a married joint filer whose spouse has a workplace plan
高筋粉
No limit for non deductible IRA, subject to income limit for ded
高筋粉
对,记得是这样。所以说,要想走后门Roth Ira, 要先存钱进non deductible IRA, right?
高筋粉
就是说 Everyone can contribute, but not everyone can deduct, 爱玛,考英语
U
USATiger
传统帐号只有一种,你自己报税的事,现在中心是back door,你交税就ok 了,哈哈
高筋粉
好好好,等报税时我好好看看我的保税软件怎么说的
霞女
是这样的。
霞女
其实只要看看form 8606 instruction就清楚了。
高筋粉
谢谢!考TOEFL似的 :)
高筋粉
谢谢,看了一下,好复杂哦 :(
U
USATiger
估计你可以省一点税,报上就完了,剩下不能省的交,哈哈
高筋粉
好嘞,能省一刀是一刀
U
USATiger
不想误导你,你想以后交税,现在可以省税,不然所有的contribution 要交税,我会先把6千的税全交了
U
USATiger
back door Roth我认为 是个tax loophole,为高收入不能存Roth 准备的,用不用,你自己考虑
霞女
其实

真正说的back door是:税后存入IRA。然后转Roth IRA。只有gain要交税。所以涨之前就最好转出来。

这是假设原来没有before tax in IRA。

k
karenkn
这个自己就可以开户?不需要找financial advisor ?
U
USATiger
online就可以, fidelity 有这个
高筋粉
知道,谢谢。
高筋粉
对,这就跟我的理解是一致的了。谢谢。如果原来有before tax IRA, 即使这次在不同银行开户,也要pro rate 吗?
霞女


这点挺重要。

U
USATiger
你这个就和401k一样,Roth 的好处是gain 也不要交税,我觉的我的message 完全没有理解,呵呵

The key difference between Roth and traditional IRAs lies in the timing of their tax advantages: With traditional IRAs, you deduct contributions now and pay taxes on withdrawals later; with Roth IRAs, you pay taxes on contributions now and get tax-free withdrawals later.

The easy answer is that earnings from a Roth IRA do not count towards income. If you keep the earnings within the account, they definitely are not taxable. And if you withdraw them? Generally, they still do not count as income—unless the withdrawal is considered a non-qualified distribution.

U
USATiger
If want to learn more, read this. I said enough already lol

https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/retirement/spender-or-saver

 

k
karenkn
好的老虎,被你煽起了热情我来试试
高筋粉
谢谢!