出租房出了大问题, 诚请指路!

白色鼠尾草
楼主 (文学城)

潜水多时, 受益匪浅。 今日实有一事, 不知如何处理, 还望各位大佬, 前辈不吝指教。

会说大约2年半前买一异地投资房,SFH, 2010年的房子。 买房,房检,过户都由 agent 全权处理, 没去现场。 seller 之后又租住大概半年, 搬走之时只是 agent walk thru 一遍, 没有发现问题。 之后现房客搬入一直住到现在。

问题大概去年11底发现,因为sewer pipe 堵塞, 工人工作时发现外墙砖上一条长crack,  上宽下窄, 最宽处大约 1/4inch. 因为还在10年 warranty 里, 我 submit claim and sent pic,  被告知这不是 structural problem, 他们不管。 我们也就以为没有大问题, 就没有再理。 结果今年夏末, tenant 报告说地板有些地方有黑色 stains,  有些地板出现移位, 意识到可能真有结构问题, 我们去了一趟, 也雇了一位 structural engineer 去检查, 结果他认为有结构问题, 建议用 helical piers to fix. 他推荐两家公司, 一家估价¥24K, 一家¥28K,  如果再掀开地板解决地板受潮问题,¥32K。 

 我把报告发给warranty 公司, 他们又雇了另一家structual engineer 去查, 新的报告虽然列出了所有问题, 但结论却是不被cover, 所以claim  被rejected.

以下是它的 conclusion

“The noted slab cracks are consistent with shrinkage cracking, expansion/contraction of the concrete slab and minor-to-moderate differential movement of the foundation slab.  The slab cracking has not significantly affected the structural integrity of the foundation or the house.  The flooring damage and exterior brick veneer cracking are reflecting the movements of the foundation slab.  As requested, RB Engineering, Inc. has evaluated the residence with the following conclusions as to warranty coverage as described in this report: • In general, the residence remains in adequate structural condition and the structural systems are functioning as intended.  The disturbances (foundation slab cracks, flooring issues, isolated brick veneer cracking) noted in this report do not represent a failure of any structural components.  RB Engineering, Inc. did not observe any issues at the subject residence that meet the major structural defect criteria as described in this report.  Specifically, sections 3 and 4 of the major structural defect criteria have not been met.“

结论依据的warranty 条款如下:

 “A Major Structural Defect is: (1). Actual physical damage; (2). to the designated load-bearing portions of a Home; (3). caused by failure of such load-bearing portions that affects their loadbearing functions; and (4). to the extent that the Home becomes unsafe, unsanitary, or otherwise unlivable.  All four portions of the definition must be met to qualify the Home for Major Structural Defect.  The warranted load bearing portions of the Home are the framing members and other structural elements that transfer the load to the supporting ground.  “

 按照这个条款,只有房子快塌了,他们才负责 :-( warranty 明年4月就过期, 估计那之前这个房子还到不了他们的负责标准。

现在我们不知该怎么做:

1. 不修卖房子, 不知卖不卖出去, 估计价钱也好不了吧

2. 自己出血修,太贵了, 还要拆deck, 地板也得更换

3. 不管它, 不知问题还会不会继续恶化, 如果2017年过户时没有这些问题, 那就是这两年发生的, 已经八年的房子还在settle,是可能的吗? 按照房客说法, 她觉得是去年夏秋下雨太多造成, 问题也确实是去年11月发现的。前屋主说他没有发现这些问题,  warranty 那里也没有以前的claim. 补充一点, 这个房子的后部有个3 米左右 deck, 然后就是个很陡的斜坡下到一个山谷,谷底一条小溪。 隔壁还有一个房也是这样位置, 据房客说, 那家也发现同样问题。所以如果不修, 不知会不会继续恶化, 再来一些大雨, 会不会继续下陷?

4. 现在能找谁来承担责任?  warranty, house inspector, previous owner? 这样的情况能打官司吗? 有律师肯接吗?

啰嗦太长, 不好意思打扰大家, 只是新手没有经验, 好不容易投点资, 钱没赚着, 还摊到这末大一麻烦, 还望大家指条明路。 万分感谢!!

白色鼠尾草
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白色鼠尾草
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白色鼠尾草
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b
borisg
如果没这裆事这个房子你打算持有多久?
白色鼠尾草
地板裂开

白色鼠尾草
地板裂开2

白色鼠尾草
地板水绩

白色鼠尾草
garage 裂缝

白色鼠尾草
其他外墙小裂缝,还有2,3条类似的

新手地主刚上路
有保险吗?
白色鼠尾草
garage 裂缝2

白色鼠尾草
后院地形

云梦
这个麻烦。
白色鼠尾草
内墙裂缝1

白色鼠尾草
内墙裂缝2

白色鼠尾草
本来是打算长期持有啊
b
borisg
你要跟当地REALTOR了解一下,当地是不是比较普遍地存在院子需要经常浇水的问题,如果浇水不及时会引起地下土层变形导致灌注基础裂

你要跟当地REALTOR了解一下,当地是不是比较普遍地存在院子需要经常浇水的问题,如果浇水不及时会引起地下土层变形导致灌注基础裂缝。

有些城市这个问题比较普遍。本人某次经过一个空置多年的房子,那个已经坏得很厉害了,前门拱顶贴的砖都掉下来了。

q
qun0
多少钱买的房子?
螺丝螺帽
你专家,这算大事吗?这,修补一下不就行了?
L
Lucky_man
买房子时没有到场?真心大!
I
IEbird
试查当地土壤地质资料。如土质松斜坡建商初始应考虑地基。加固结构和心理会安全。房子幽静漂亮望费用占比不高。
汗滴米高
在美国,建筑商就是流氓 》》》

您是斗不过的。 可以找邻居们,如果有问题,可以联合起来和他们斗。 法律都是偏向建筑商的。没办法,普通人没有钱和资源去游说立法。

h
hhtt
不用紧张,这房六十年里不会倒!出租房,照规矩,坏什么修什么!水渍是什么情况,应该和房子settle没有关系?
h
hhtt
根本不是大事,现在新房子,建筑商为省钱,不用上好的料,时间长了,小毛病一大堆!
h
hhtt
我的房子已经六十多年了,那是质量好,用的木料和砖真的是好质量,昨天为了在外墙上钻个洞,还用坏了我一个钻头!
1
12行雁
以前见过一个在断崖边上的房子

因为离断崖非常近,导致房子地基出问题,60万的房子挂出来很久都没有卖出去。非常难办,如果按原价交易,即使有人买了过去也不能住人,如果不能按原价只能按地皮价卖,大约20万,下一家接手过去也不敢推倒重修,因为地基不稳。不知道后来怎样了。

凡是距离斜坡近的房子都最好别买。

但是最近我又看见一个正在修的新房子,恰恰就是在斜坡上硬推平了一小块坡地来盖新房。靠外面的斜坡上,从下面邻居家后院边界处修一面墙起来,就算地基了,推平填满墙和后面斜坡之间的距离,就盖了一个2层的楼,几乎没有后院,就是房子的左边留了一小块平地算是院子。如果雨水冲刷,不光是屋子后面有泥石流,前面地基也有可能塌陷。

像这样类似的房子我见过不少,真的就是在悬崖边上,也住了几十年,但是斜坡边就很明显的看出松散泥土。如果是我,肯定一天到晚的担心并且试图想办法修围墙填土稳地基。一直要担心。

白色鼠尾草
这不是没经验, 不知道啊。tenant 说她听邻居讲这两个房盖一半时推倒重来过一遍, 不知是不是地基问题
汗滴米高
说得对,也只能这样。 只要合法出租,哪里坏了,就修好。
白色鼠尾草
按照structural engineer 说法是盖房子时偷工减料, 地下没有防水层, 水涔上来, 我觉得可能还是地基有裂缝了,
白色鼠尾草
就是不知怎莫修啊, 按照engineer 给出的方案, 要3万块
1
12行雁
也不能全信这个说法,

因为在美国盖房子,无论做地基还是盖上面的房子,每一步做好后,都要等city的人来验收,合格以后才能继续下一步。

你可以去city 问一下,当时做地基有没有按照程序做,做的质量是否合格。

白色鼠尾草
您能给点具体建议怎末修吗? 修哪里? 把墙补上,不解决地基问题啊, 地板涔水又怎末办, 总不能看着它恶化, 最后地板全报销?
s
sweetptt
我的房子有个木头做的recess closet。两个老莫用大锤子长铁钎干了3个半小时才把木头拆下来
h
hz82000
我每天看盖房子,感觉挺认真的,挖地,填石子,铺水泥,。。。
s
sweetptt
1/4 inch是boundary line。建商可能没有责任。除非你起诉他们,他们会协商
古来万事
Structural engineer和Foundation Repair Company建议要放多少个piers,里面多少,外
古来万事
外面多少?什么位置?最高要lift多少?
Q
Qiqimomca
应该找一个律师!
古来万事
Proposal?
p
pangtouwa
大房子啊, 不是大事。
白色鼠尾草
这是他建议的, 我也不懂, 麻烦您帮看一下

古来万事
Helical Piers是用来fix foundation的。Structure engineer建议用pier来fix那么说
白色鼠尾草
这是文字

螺丝螺帽
无地下室吗?地板发黑发霉地方,打开看看,坏啥补啥
白色鼠尾草
第二段。 这是我找的engineer 给的建议, 他们找的根本没有给建议

t
tz2000
邻居没有同样问题?
螺丝螺帽
正好趁机大砍价。觉得美国房子,像搭积木,容易坏,但是也应该容易修复
白色鼠尾草
房子没有没有basement, 面积大概2700 sqft
古来万事
18 piers从外面lift.
2
201411
好像地板和倾斜没关系。地板是有漏造成的。
古来万事
说明foundation出了问题
白色鼠尾草
这个是他们engineer 写的完整报告。谢谢

 During our site inspection, we observed the following relevant information:
 
• The single-family residence was constructed upon a monolithic concrete foundation slab using typical construction methods and contained an attached garage located at the front, left portion of the residence.  The filled residential lot sloped slightly from back-to-front on the front half and from front-to-back on the rear half.  There was a significant grading drop off approximately 10 to 15 feet away from the rear of the house toward an undeveloped wooded area.  

A V-shaped, vertical crack existed to the brick veneer near the middle of the right wall, 19feet from the front-right corner.  The crack was approximately 1/4-inch wide near the top and diminished in size to hairline-width before disappearing near ground level.  Isolated, hairlinewidth brick veneer cracking was observed in other locations including:  above the top-left and top-right corners of the garage door; above and below the front window of the dining room; and above and below the rear windows of the living room.  Other than these isolated exterior issues, the brick veneer was in good physical condition.  
 
• The front porch slab had minor cracking that originated beneath the front window of the dining room.  No driveway slab cracking was observed.    
 
• Several garage slab cracks were noted.  The majority of the cracks were confined to control joints though one hairline to 1/16-inch wide crack propagated through the middle of the rearmost slab section.   Little to no vertical displacement existed along the cracks.  The left-toright crack located within the central control joint extended into the left garage foundation.  This crack likely extends into the right garage foundation; however, personal belongings and furniture prevented visual confirmation.  Using a rotary laser level, we measured the perimeter foundation along the left and rear walls of the garage to remain essentially level.    
 
• The wood flooring on the ground floor contained separations on the order of 1/8-inch to              1/4-inch along an underlying slab crack.  The flooring separations were located near the middle of residence and extended left-to-right from the kitchen through the foyer and bathroom.  Dark staining existed to isolated areas of the wood flooring and appeared to be moisture-related.    Other than the wood flooring issues, the interior of the residence was in generally good physical condition.  No significant interior drywall disturbances or door alignment issues were noted.  Minor drywall cracks were noted along edges and corners as well as a few minor trim separations on the ground floor.  No notable interior issues were observed on the second floor.  

• Using a rotary laser level, relative floor measurements were taken and revealed vertical floor misalignments of ½-inch to 1½ -inch from the central, slab crack location to the front and rear walls.  Global front-to-back floor elevations were generally level, with vertical differences on the order of ½-inch to 1-inch between the front and rear walls.   See the attached sketch for relative floor elevation measurements.

EVALUATION
 
While foundation slab cracks are not uncommon in residential structures in this geographic area, the presence of foundation cracks can sometimes indicate differential movement of the foundation system.  Differential settlement occurs when there is localized consolidation of the supporting soils under an applied load.  Because the vast majority of slab foundations in this area are not constructed with reinforcing steel, slab foundations are highly susceptible to this type of cracking. The geotechnical reports confirm the fill soils were placed adequately and were suitable for the support of the proposed residential structure utilizing a design bearing pressure of 2,500 psf.  
 
No significant structural issues were noted during our site inspection and subsequent structural evaluation.  The existing cracks in the concrete foundation slab have not significantly impacted the structural integrity of the foundation slab at this time.  Based on the results of the observations and measurements; the structure is not experiencing any excessive differential settlement or movement; although vertical floor misalignments on the order of ½-inch to 1½ -inch were measured along the central crack location.  The slab cracks (foundation, garage, and front porch) are consistent with shrinkage cracking, expansion/contraction of the concrete slab and minor-to-moderate differential movement of the foundation slab.        
 
Concrete shrinks during curing as hydration of the cement and evaporation of water occurs. The amount of shrinkage is dependent on a number of factors including; concrete slump or consistency at time of placement, curing methods, temperature and humidity at time of placement and during curing, finishing methods, and mix proportions.  Shrinkage cracking commonly occurs in the central portion of slab areas and at changes in slab thickness. The existing distress is not considered major structural distress in its current condition, as it is not impacting the stability or structural performance of the residence. Continued widening or more severe vertical movement of the slab could indicate structure movement and would warrant further investigation. 


 CONCLUSIONS

The noted slab cracks are consistent with shrinkage cracking, expansion/contraction of the concrete slab and minor-to-moderate differential movement of the foundation slab.  The slab cracking has not significantly affected the structural integrity of the foundation or the house.  The flooring damage and exterior brick veneer cracking are reflecting the movements of the foundation slab.  As requested, RB Engineering, Inc. has evaluated the residence with the following conclusions as to warranty coverage as described in this report: • In general, the residence remains in adequate structural condition and the structural systems are functioning as intended.  The disturbances (foundation slab cracks, flooring issues, isolated brick veneer cracking) noted in this report do not represent a failure of any structural components.  RB Engineering, Inc. did not observe any issues at the subject residence that meet the major structural defect criteria as described in this report.  Specifically, sections 3 and 4 of the major structural defect criteria have not been met.
  

 

古来万事
他给你的建议是fix foundation by installing piers然后fix由此引起的damages.
白色鼠尾草
对, 是从外面,但是他说如果要解决地板涔水问题, 要把地板都打开, 加一层什么东西
2
201411
刚刚看到没地下室,那可能是地裂开,潮气进来了
h
hhtt
对,在水泥地上装地板,要先看湿度,如果湿度太高,不能装地板!现在这情况,折开看看,然后决定是小修小补,还是重新铺floating
古来万事
房子slightly往后面倾斜。是哪一年的房子?

另外当地的土质什么样的?周围邻居或城市是不是容易出foundation问题?or only a specific situation for this house?

古来万事
地板的水的问题是要找水是哪里来的?他们找到了问题?
白色鼠尾草
2010 年的房子, 问题是2018年11月才发现。 2017 年买房时房检没发现问题。 房客也说她搬进去时11/2017 没有
h
hhtt
楼主这问题,已经变成了self-fulfilling prophecy?
f
freedom321
你要结构工程师修,那人家当然就要像模像样地修,虽然报告里也说没什么大问题
白色鼠尾草
可是地板很多年了没有这问题, 地基出问题, 它才跟着出问题的
白色鼠尾草
没有, 就说没有做防水措施
古来万事
那么是最近一两年发生的。雨水多。
h
hhtt
你讲一点不错,前房主找人装地板,应该有层防潮漠,可是装的人偷工减料!没有装,所以发霉了?
t
tax2
建议先修好了,再和建筑商打官司,一般10年保地基。
白色鼠尾草
我不是没事找事啊,各位见多识广,对我们可是不知所措
古来万事
地板只是潮湿black stains?没有实实在在的水?地板在哪个位置?
白色鼠尾草
明年4月warranty 作废, 我前面 claim 的已经被rejected
白色鼠尾草
好像是这样, 房客说去年雨多。 可是现在还会继续恶化吗? 不修会怎摸样?
白色鼠尾草
修理预算

白色鼠尾草
这末贵, 怎莫修得起?

白色鼠尾草
就是受潮发黑, 没有看到水出来, 好几片, 厨房, 客厅, 不相连
h
hhtt
我没有讲你没事找事!我是想让你不要自己吓自己!你那房子有没有问题?有!大不大?不大!能不能不化大钱修?能!
l
lawattaction
白色的雨水管,下面还应该有个管子,让雨水远离房子。
白色鼠尾草
借您吉言! 可不可以请赐教这个地基需不需要修?如果修, 怎莫修? engineer 的方案真心修不起啊, 地板怎末办? 不想全重
古来万事
如果是我的房

我不会现在花2-3万去修foundation (除非我能从Warranty那里拿回这些钱)。我会一直keep,卖之前修好foundation. Sale with Foundation Lifetime Warranty. 别的问题我现在会解决。

修foundation连带的issue可能还要修sewer line(otherwise you can not get Lifetime Warranty),如果lift的地方离地下水管近sewer line leaking的话.

但要密切关注foundation的问题,看是否一年一年在getting worse.


你现在卖房不管修或不修都会损失很大。

白色鼠尾草
非常感谢!! 有一点不是很明白, 既然是lifetime warranty, 早修晚修不是一样吗?晚修还有可能问题越来越大?
古来万事
看我下面写的
h
hhtt
把地板修了,不用全换,哪里坏,修哪里!外墙不急,现在或明年春天雨季前补都可以。
h
hhtt
还有我不会拿着那两份工程师的报告,到处和他人讲,我的房地基有问题?
古来万事
Warranty只保他们install的piers.新出现的问题不保. Tenant住不会爱护房子.
白色鼠尾草
我也不想啊, 不是着急吗? 请问怎末删帖啊? 第一次在文学城发帖, 有跟帖, 就删不了了
螺丝螺帽
没有打开就下结论是大忌
t
tax2
打官司吧,claim 当然会rejected, 他们都是黑心商家
h
hhtt
我不是说你在这里讲!是要你不用和房客或邻居讲,没有的事,多讲两遍也成了事?
白色鼠尾草
多谢提醒, 房客肯定知道的。不过她觉得根本不是问题, 还特别担心我们会卖房呢
孩儿妈狗妈
是要修的,要卖也没办法过关。找最好的construction lawyer 打官司, 如他/她接你的案子就有希望 (好的Lawy
w
webuser1
If you sue the builder then the builder will take care the probl
a
autumnmoon
做生意是有风险的。 这个不算太大的问题。

如果长期持有。把地板换成 vinyl plank。 

地基问题主要是水造成的。太干,太湿都是原因。tenant usually not help keep the yard in reasonable wet, if it worse more, may spend money repair. 

 

俺是农民
修是肯定要修的,如果找劳模或者老中修,应该只花三分之一的价钱,修好了自己也安心,长期看可以

回本,这些花销再用来省税,今年肯定不用上税了。