.

r
raymn
楼主 (文学峸)

拿EC当敲门砖,浪费财力物力费劲爬藤确实是一种有毒文化,藤在鼓励这种文化.是反教育的

真藤娃以教育为重心,而不是功利爬藤,一切顺其自然,就没性价比不高的弊端

 

大千小股民乙
简单:你们娃都不申藤就是了,估计坛子里很多人松口气:)
锦衣卫
紫檀爬藤不看性价比,只看哪枝藤更高。投入的时间和财力都忽略不计

就是最近让40万/100万搞的有点焦虑

一边是鱼一边是熊掌

r
raymn
我们爬得很自然,研究藤比研究州大时间少多啦

反而比较注重州大和CMU这类学校的课程设置.Hornor Program, Scholarship, etc.

r
raymn
It's not about money, it's about principle. 不想觉得自己傻呼呼
p
pct
旗舰州大的CS也不容易,臭名昭著的锄草课,一门就淘汰10%

好不容易毕业了,进大厂的估计也不到1/4

m
mjnew
对的,投入产出比是0,或者负数也上
h
helloworld_1
藤都不敢想,学费太贵了,啊
f
fantasticdream
正好把机会让给藤迷

L
LilyBD
你觉得孩子们EC都是为了爬藤?我不觉得,我家的爱起来拦不住,我儿子喜欢足球 辩论到了生物都快挂科了地步
r
raymn
好歹是学了真本事
r
raymn
我们不争不抢,有本事来拿啊:-)
r
raymn
你家是自然爬的有机藤娃.有毒的是各种变态催生的
L
LilyBD
记得外面瓢泼大雨 还非要出去踢球。我女儿当年也是,一画画10几个小时,现在也说画画可以减压,虽然没学艺术
p
pct
真本事

Coding monkey 而已,过几年还是被藤校生领导 

r
raymn
别把coding当唯一本事就行
L
LilyBD
头一次听说有机藤娃这词 哈哈。我女儿没爬藤,不是藤娃材料
凊荷
怎么算的?
r
raymn
True passion. Manual 赞!!!
老糊涂2
爬藤重要的不是目标,是过程中孩子的成长。水到渠成。Enjoy the journey
h
helloworld_1
藤校学费多少,是要40万吗, 州大只要4万就可以了,觉得不值啊
凊荷
真是臆想啊

藤出来的四十万比州立,包括你崇拜的旗舰州立,多多了,人家低调不吭声而已。你砸藤都砸糊涂了。

r
raymn
关键实际福利可能还比不上州大Honor,比如科研机会,选课优先

第一次听说Brown选不上课时我惊呆了

凊荷
州大honor连CS进不了的人多死了

想学也没门儿。cs 热翻天了,总不能门门课都一千人大课啊,当然有些课不能随便选

r
raymn
同样的人去藤和州大最后差别不大.比如两个都录,选择区州大的.有人跟踪研究过

主要差别在人,不在学校

 

T
TYTOU
不锄草怎么办?专业课也几百人一起上?
p
pct
Brown 选不上课?仔细说说?
凊荷
州大三六九等,

差别和藤很大的。

你可以说人和人没差别,都是从生到死

凊荷
LOL
r
raymn
CS直录的学校没有选课问题
凊荷
当然有

按部就班都没有,像跳课都有

m
mom2023
是你们的雷达太弱LOL,我这边数字是 私校和公校的确都有选课问题。但是最后都能上。

都是比 看到的或者道听途说,那我就加点面粉,浆糊更稠点

r
raymn
能去藤的去也能去好州大,好专业,honor, scholarship等等

这些条件叠加起来不一定比藤差.总体学校水平有差异,但最后还是要落在具体个人身上

p
pct
藤校是进学校之前淘汰,旗舰州大是进校之后淘汰,看你如何取舍了 ...
r
raymn
https://www.quora.com/What-is-Brown-University-like

It’s impossible to get into Literary Arts courses. If you aren’t interested in taking creative writing courses, then maybe this doesn’t matter to you. But the fact that a student can try to get into a Literary Arts course every semester they are at Brown and not take a single one? (For example, David Levithan, a now-bestselling author, was only able to get into one Literary Arts course while he was a student at Brown.) That’s, quite frankly, disgraceful.
r
randomness
哪儿都有可能选不上课的
凊荷
一般好州大的资源和藤差太多了,CS也就几个州大可以。
r
raymn
But at State U I will feel less ripped-off. :-)
r
raymn
藤校除了Cornell,还没有CS比得上GIT,UIUC,UNC,UT, Maryland, UMich or UC的
凊荷
每个本科都比这些学校强
凊荷
藤也一样啊。LOL
r
raymn
Are you serious? Did you compare their CS corriculum?
凊荷
本科就那几门课有啥好上的。
凊荷
课再好也要好学生上
r
raymn
看科研?UVA/UNC的 Rhodes Scholars比 Penn, Cornell, Columbia多近一倍

https://www.rhodeshouse.ox.ac.uk/media/44935/2020-rs_number-of-winners-by-institution.pdf
r
raymn
UNC/UVA full-ride scholars are likely Ivy admitted too.
凊荷
这个奖已经臭大街了吧
r
raymn
If you get FA, of course. But not for full-pay kids. :-)
r
raymn
Where did you get that from? How about Goldwater Scholar?
凊荷
很多州立都有这种孩子,所以我坚持说

州立也有很优秀的学生,但整体上藤的学生更好,资源也好。资源也包括寻找配偶时候pool 的质量大小啊

凊荷
Rhodes太左,另一个不知道
t
tibuko
对,支持
凊荷
不拿FA

也一样值得。

C
Cambridge617
H也一样不好选课,好多课要写essay 申请,有的有第二轮面试,有个密西西比来的白男说特别失落

他在家乡很多人都知道他,感觉特别好,结果上大学第一年居然连选课都竞争不过。慢慢在第三年才好起来

r
raymn
Sure, beauty is in the eyes of beholder. To each his own.:-)
Y
YanNL
听说你女儿申了38所学校?你真是纠结 LOL
凊荷
也不是

一年两载的就赚出来了,有什么hard feeling呢?

r
raymn
哈哈这个配偶优生论已经被批判过很多次了毫无科学依据
r
raymn
It's all about total experience.
凊荷
这种common sense还要辩啊
r
raymn
你娃特牛少数例子没有典型性
凊荷
怎么跟我娃联系上了?

这个坛子不是老说四十万,二十万的,就算二十万,三年就出来了。跟我娃没关。我娃彻底赔了。LOL

r
raymn
我是热心研究申学问题,纯爱好,true passion.

不存在纠结.:-)

r
raymn
The premise of 200K/400K is false in general.

Not in New York market except for some tiny niches.

r
raymn
Or common fallacy. :-)
凊荷
哈哈,真的遗憾

我们对资源定义不一样。

 

凊荷
这个我比你清楚

娃同学朋友2019 拿的2020 的offer 都在20 万+。没一个低于20 万的

r
randomness
这个是坛里记录了吧?
p
pct
嗯,这门课似乎是有名的难进,这不应该。另一方面,David Levithan后来还是成为best selling作家

看来他在Brown受到的教育还不错

r
raymn
Outside of Hedge Funds, Buy Side Asset Management?

I work at WS firms.

L
LilyBD
好奇后来去了哪里?
r
raymn
We can say in spite of Brown, not because of Brown
凊荷
这些都是CS 的offer,
Y
YanNL
这样到处放枪只能说明了你不懂学校,也不知道你女儿适合什么
r
raymn
是的,有些做flash trading,market data等对CS要求高的pay的好.

十年前250-300K都有.大多数花街CS没那么glamorous.不如去硅谷

r
raymn
所以才要实践搞懂啊

不试,怎么知道emory会给full ride?不是都说他家有Tuft Sydrome吗?实践出真知

r
raymn
不过试差不多了大多数也撤了
Z
Zhuzitaba
啥叫EC?
成功的熊
有点以讹传讹了。小白男说的应该是第一年的seminar,是为了培养兴趣,可以选择不上。
凊荷
说的就是硅谷的offer呀
成功的兔
extracurricular (activity), 课外活动
r
raymn
我说嘛.我上面说纽约,你说比我清楚,然后你说的是硅谷

我们州大真的不比藤校更拎不清.:-)

凊荷
那你说差了

我说的是上藤的钱很快赚出来了。

说实话的男人
UVA 这么厉害?超过MIT, Cornell UPenn, U. Chicago, DUKE, John Hopkin

only after Harvard, Priceton, Ylae, Stanford, close to Brown and Dartmouth. 

C
Croissant_22
牛娃太能写了,难怪拿写作大奖
Z
Zhuzitaba
谢谢您
r
run2022
谈性价比就是谈钱,这就俗了
r
raymn
They missed the point of principle. :-)

Like traders, they seek every bit of optimization and not get sloppy because "in a few years I will get it back anyway".

n
nnn333
申请38所学校?that’s crazy
r
raymn
他们的Jefferson全奖吸引了很多藤级娃
r
randomness
那大猫更多。各LAC按比例算那就更不得了
r
raymn
大猫读本科不错,精力花在本科生身上.Rhodes也有反映
r
raymn
也说明有人较藤更喜欢LAC

Why would one choose Williams or Amherst over Harvard or Yale?

Because one is bright enough to have figured out that there will be a significant difference between being trained by TAs on Harvard and Yale’s factory floors, and having substantive, intimate, daily and hourly contact with Williams faculty who are experts in their field.

So we’re clear here: I was offered Harvard’s Presidential Scholarship, which is essentially a hidden merit scholarship which covers costs at Harvard plus grad school, and the equivalent at Williams and Cornell. (I’d already eliminated Yale from consideration at the time).

A few dozen of my friends chose Harvard instead, and I visited them a lot. It was an interesting comparison.

At Harvard, they had a lecture with several hundred people, and then separated sections with teaching assistants who are in the first or second year of their careers.

At Williams, my average class size was 6.7, with tenured professors, several of whom, like Robert Friedrichs, had acheived the highest honors in their discipline. (I had Bob 2-on-1 for a tutorial on the core works of Anthropology and Sociology).

Frequently, I dropped by Bob’s and other professors’ houses, whose locations were familiar to me and other students. I ran into faculty in the hallways and shops, and continued discussions— both academic, personal and administrative.

By the time I was a third-year at Williams, I was a teaching assistant for first and second-years— the equivalent of the people providing the majority of teaching of undergrads at Harvard.

In summary, I’d estimate I had 30 to 40 hours of direct contact with Ph.D. faculty, most tenured, per week at Williams. At Harvard, I would have had 3 to 5.

This is reason 1 of 10 that I could have listed for choosing Williams over Harvard. (*Hey, as an undergrad, I could walk into Herb Allen’s kitchen, because I knew where the door was*).

The next 9 reasons are just as good.

9 out of 10 people choose Harvard or Yale over Williams because of name recognition or perceived prestige. They are absolutely wrong — at 18, you don’t perceive prestige the way the rest of the world does, and 8 out of 10 parents understand little more than “it’s the Ivy League.”

Among those who know the difference in quality between massive shops like Yale and places such as Amherst, there is equal prestige. Among the halls of the institutions whose members preserve the unique relationship between the US and the UK, the fields where Jenny Jerome gave Williams Royal Purple as our color, at the first baseball game, a few years before she became Lady Churchill, are well remembered and regarded.

Such histories and traditions matter, bind us together and create relationships and opportunities— and give Williams and Amherst and Swarthmore and Dartmouth and a host of other small institutions, as much prestige where it matters, as Harvard.

You’ve heard of Lehman Bros. because of the news: the Brothers were class of 1868, Lehman Hall was named after them, and about 3% of alums worked for the great House they built, before it was allowed to fall.

If you’re interested in Finance and Economics, including developmental economics, The Wall Street Journal has called Williams “the West Point of Wall Street.” There are similar close connections in the worlds of art, journalism, intelligence, and so on, which rival any opportunities Harvard may open.

Having the oldest alumni society in the nation, alumni giving at Williams tops 75%, far more than other institutions— a sign of the fondness and closeness of the alumni, our enduring deep belief in the institutions, our support— and our wealth.

But the core difference is the quality of the education. You go to Williams or Amherst or their equivalents, to become a broadly educated person, just embarking on a lifetime of learning.

Harvard and Yale, over their histories, have simply rarely provided a level of education that approaches that at Williams. One might as well go to Cal, or Wharton, or Penn State — or forbid, Brown.

Surely the above is true of at least Amherst as well.

r
randomness
你家会怎么选?

俺娃H是没有,W拿到了最后没去。这文章太让人吃后悔药了。lol

r
raymn
其实看个人

Williams对他好对其他人未必.比如我娃学写作,Williams英语专业的水平一看就觉得跟州大没差别.

看这些Major Plan https://english.williams.edu/the-major/major-plan/

w
wzg69
确实不申请了

虽然试了一家ed

其他确实不申请了,不花冤枉钱

a
aw2021
看专业吧。