“People given both doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine were almost six-fold more likely to contract a delta infection and seven-fold more likely to have symptomatic disease than those who recovered”.
“The risk of a vaccine-breakthrough delta case was 13-fold higher than the risk of developing a second infection when the original illness occurred during January or February 2021. ”
The researchers obtained the data from the Maccabi Healthcare Services database, Israel’s second-largest health maintenance organization.
Maccabi Healthcare Services is a state-mandated, not-for-profit health fund that covers 26% of Israel’s population and provides a representative sample of Israeli residents, the study authors say. The database includes extensive demographic data, clinical measurements, outpatient and hospital diagnoses, and comprehensive laboratory data.
不想咬文嚼字。但是,我觉着这个信息还是要说明一下:
针对Delta,天然得过新冠的病人,免疫力要强过疫苗带来的免疫。这是分析以色列真实世界的新冠数据后,得出的结论。
N天前,这个,在各大媒体均有报道过。
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot
https://theconversation.com/amp/covid-infections-may-give-more-potent-immunity-than-vaccines-but-that-doesnt-mean-you-should-try-to-catch-it-167122
“...people who had been infected with COVID had greater protection than vaccinated people against becoming reinfected with the delta variant. ”
如果你读到的是C D C的文件,比如这个:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html
那只能说,CDC的数据,有过时的嫌疑。
得过新冠的人群,免疫要强过只打疫苗(两剂)的人群. 但是,得过新冠,要是再来上一针的人群,获得的免疫保护最棒。
关键是,得病后的天然免疫,虽然保护效果好于疫苗,但太危险,所以不建议去为了这个专门去感染。
当然,我这贴要说的,真实世界的数据:天然免疫的保护作用是强于疫苗带来的保护。
“People given both doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine were almost six-fold more likely to contract a delta infection and seven-fold more likely to have symptomatic disease than those who recovered”.
“The risk of a vaccine-breakthrough delta case was 13-fold higher than the risk of developing a second infection when the original illness occurred during January or February 2021. ”
随便举几点:
1. 这是 Observational study, 对比组的选择有限,比如,大多数是年轻人(>61% 39岁一下), 65岁以上的不到5%。还有,以色列的疫苗率非常高,那么不打疫苗的人是否和打疫苗的人有行为上的不同?
2. 得病和住院人数小,而疫苗组的immunocompromised和癌症患者是自然感染组的两倍多,这一项就能改变结果。
3. 得病人数是根据病人去测试的数据,那么就不包括得了病不去测或者不知道的,again,自然感染的人和疫苗组的人是否有行为上的区别?
4. 他们只选了 Pfizer, 现在不少数据表现 Moderna对 Delta的有效率比Pfizer高。
。。。还有其他,没必要一一列举。
但非常重要一点,三个对比组还有一个是自然感染后又打了一针疫苗的,根据他们自己的结论,这个组得病风险比自然感染的还要低不少,但是,新闻里就不提这个结论,也是有意思。
“
三个对比组还有一个是自然感染后又打了一针疫苗的,根据他们自己的结论,这个组得病风险比自然感染的还要低不少,但是,新闻里就不提这个结论,也是有意思。
” 不写这组, 是不是对结论有异议? 其实, 取样的点和面太重要了, 这个会反映到结果的。 我打针后, 填了表, 给反馈, 我想很多人也这样坐了。这个是直接去CDC的, 是不是我们更应该信CDC的?我给的林肯里就有。其它的报道也很多,比如:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/delta-variant-what-kind-of-immunity-offers-the-highest-protection
The researchers obtained the data from the Maccabi Healthcare Services database, Israel’s second-largest health maintenance organization.
Maccabi Healthcare Services is a state-mandated, not-for-profit health fund that covers 26% of Israel’s population and provides a representative sample of Israeli residents, the study authors say. The database includes extensive demographic data, clinical measurements, outpatient and hospital diagnoses, and comprehensive laboratory data.
research 原文,上面的林肯里也有
所有真实世界(real world)的数据都有很大局限性。我昨天说的狐狸转发的CDC关于现在住院和死亡人数的报道,和这个以色列的数据角度不一样,可以算另一个数据点。
还有,你可以和你儿子说,疫苗对不同变种的综合保护律(cross protection)也优于自然感染。
可惜,不知道哪个国家专门用Moderna, 这样,数据就会很清晰
没几个月前,英国变种曾经垄断美国,现在是印度,谁知道下一个是啥
想上海了, 我妈妈走了都要8年了。
很快就是她的忌日了
我也很想回成都去看我姨妈和表姐,我妈走了七年了,姨妈就是我妈唯一的手足了,她也八十多了。我也盼着能回去看她的那天
但是一直超不过1%. 我一直在看CDC每周(以前是每天)美国变种的动态,眼看着英国变种(alpha)碾压武汉原种,后来印度的 Delta后来居上,现在全面碾压所有变种。大家一直最怕的是南非,但是这家伙传染力不敌英国和老印度,上不去。
我有个邻居是开心理诊所的,他儿子和你儿子一样。她烦恼得要死,来找我。我也是劝她先放一放,不要逼他打疫苗,慢慢谈观点