中文版世界通史里有关英国首相丘吉尔反对对日扔原子弹是不准确的。丘吉尔是在50年代才改变对使用核武器的立场

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楼主 (文学峸)

白云网友引用了中文版世界通史里有关英国首相丘吉尔关于对日扔原子弹的立场。

这是从白云网友帖子里来的,

https://www.ias.edu/ideas/2013/farmelo-churchill

In the early evening of March 15, 1933, a group of London socialites gathered in a Westminster mansion to hear a special lecture on the latest developments in nuclear science. The talk was chaired by Winston Churchill. The speaker—Churchill’s friend Frederick Lindemann, a friend of Einstein’s and a professor of physics at Oxford University—discussed John Cockcroft and Ernest Walton’s recent artificial splitting of the atom and James Chadwick’s discovery of the neutron. Churchill had foreseen an important role of this subatomic particle fifteen months before in his essay “Fifty Years Hence,” read widely in Britain and North America. He had told his readers in this article that scientists were looking for “the match to set the [nuclear] bonfire alight.”

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Now, under pressure of leading a country at war, he himself was about to see whether he would be up to that challenge. Given his familiarity with the concept of nuclear weapons, it was remarkable that he recognized the importance of working closely with the United States in building the first ones, only three years later, in April 1943. By then, it was obvious that the British could not possibly build the Bomb alone during the War, and the gargantuan Manhattan Project was surging ahead, with the British playing only a relatively minor role. Churchill had been able to make only very limited political use of the nuclear bomb established by his nuclear scientists. He did, however, strike a secret deal with President Roosevelt at Quebec in August 1943 that required both British and American leaders to approve the first use of the weapon. Churchill later agreed that the Bomb could be used on Japan, a decision he never regretted.

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Churchill’s thinking about nuclear weapons changed rapidly after it became clear in the early 1950s that both superpowers would soon have the hydrogen bomb, making possible what would become known as “mutually assured destruction.” In February 1954, toward the end of his second term as British Prime Minister, Churchill read a report on a speech by Sterling Cole, Chair of the U.S. Joint Committee on Atomic Energy, which first brought home to him the extent of the H-bomb’s destructiveness. This realization drove him, in his final months on the international stage, to urge the Soviet and American leaders to meet with him with the aim of easing the tensions of the Cold War, to reduce considerably the risk of a conflagration. He became a pioneer of détente, though an unsuccessful one, and left office privately fearing that nuclear war was all but inevitable.

 

 

欲千北
“ Churchill later agreed that the Bomb could be used on Jap”

“ Churchill later agreed that the Bomb could be used on Japan, a decision he never regretted.”

机器翻译:“丘吉尔后来同意原子弹可以用于日本,他从不后悔这个决定。”

 
白云蓝天
他们是从军事观点反对对日本使用核武,认为没必要,日本已面临崩溃。丘吉尔反对也是从这个角度,如果支持也是因为政治角度原因。
白云蓝天
说什么因为他们赶反核武的时髦才事后表示反对用核武,这纯粹是无稽之谈毫无逻辑!那时苏联有核武了吗?那时有反核武运动了吗?
白云蓝天
他们认为日本面临崩溃才不需用核武,这是否等于说,如果日本还有实力,他们就会支持用核武?他们这算是哪门子的反核武?!
白云蓝天
丘吉尔因为苏联也有了核武器,世界面临有打核大战的危险,所以后来才表示无条件地反对用核武。
白云蓝天
世界通史列出的这些军人反对对日本用原子弹,都纯粹从军事角度,而杜鲁门用核武是从政治角度考虑,这些世界通史都讲得很清楚了。
欲千北
对日作战的两大统帅,尼米兹和麦克阿瑟,他们在扔原子弹之前反对吗?他们怎么说的?
白云蓝天
从他们言辞中,可以看出这明显是他们的一贯态度,那时杜鲁门还健在,他们不会之前赞成后来又说是反对的,这不都成了小人吗?
白云蓝天
不信是你的事!我觉得世界通史整个片段非常符合逻辑,根本不用去怀疑,只有感觉有说不通的地方时才值得去求证。
欲千北
你没有给出任何论据。
白云蓝天
我下面已说过,他们之前即使提出过异议,当时也不会公开,因为扔原子弹是件非同寻常的事,公开反对等于给总统制造大麻烦。
白云蓝天
你自己去找!如果实在没事干的话!本人不是认为很可信很符合逻辑吗?再说世界通史编写者看到过的所有资料,就一定有办法全查到?
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znr0505
"世界通史列出的这些军人反对对日本用原子弹,都纯粹从军事角度" - 没有可信的证据。看大英百科全書的观点

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Trumans-decision-to-use-the-bomb-712569

" In later years, several key figures, including General Dwight D. Eisenhower, General Douglas MacArthur, Admiral William Leahy, and Assistant Secretary of War John J. McCloy, claimed to have opposed using the bomb, but there is no firm evidence of any substantial contemporary opposition."

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恰恰相反。 Interim Committee 记录了所有的讨论,包括曼哈顿计划里部分文职人员的反对意见

最后递交给总统的建议甚至采用了“事先警告被炸城市居民”的措施。

 Interim Committee 质询了不少政界军界的官员,唯一记录下来的反对意见是以芝加哥大学的科学家为主的曼哈顿计划里的部分文职人员 (< 26%)

白云蓝天
大英百科全书出于严谨才这么说,但至少说出了一个事实,即当时那些军人都表示反对对日本用原子弹,尽管是事后声称的。
白云蓝天
所以说明世界通史一点没乱说,而且我在这里也一直说,这应是他们的一贯态度,否则不会之前没反对,后来都说不赞成,
白云蓝天
撒这慌有意思吗,不是存心一起在搞杜鲁门?而杜鲁门也不出来澄清,说你们以前都没有反对过啊。
白云蓝天
你俩看不到世界通史那段记述的合理性不说,还提出各种荒谬的假设,本人都耐着性子给你们释疑,还在没完没了,简直对你们实在无语
白云蓝天
对中文世界通史的这一记述,你们爱信不信,反正我信了,只要不说我编出来即可。本人已经回答了你们不少的荒谬假设,不奉陪了!
白云蓝天
这记录是正式公开的记录,杜鲁门内部的私下沟通会公开吗?脑子缺少的不止一根弦,就是想不到其他可能性,尽管很容易想到!
白云蓝天
钻这种荒谬可笑的牛角尖,什么事情都会弄不清的!
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znr0505
你一直在用 “中文世界通史” 里的这一段记述来证明这一段记述的正确性。顺便说一声,尼米兹从未公开他对原子弹的立场
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znr0505
这是你说的,不是大英百科全书说的。好,到此为止。