If Member A transfers $5,000 out of Fund A and puts $2,500 into Fund B and $2,500 into Fund C on December 1 and then transfers $25,000 out of Fund A and puts $20,000 into Fund B and $5,000 into Fund C on December 5, and then transfers $10,000 out of Fund A and puts $10,000 into Fund C on December 6 and then transfers $23,000 out of Fund B into Fund A and $20,000 out of Fund C into Fund A on December 16, the entire series of transactions constitutes a Roundtrip Trade and is a Market Timing Trade because the aggregate amount of all trades into and out of Fund A exceeded $75,000 within a 30 day period.
It is irrelevant that money has come out of one fund and been transferred into two funds because the money has been returned to the original fund.
觉得关键是不能return to Fund A, original fund.
【 在 Deflect2015 (Sam) 的大作中提到: 】 : A roundtrip is a mutual fund purchase or exchange purchase followed by a : sell or exchange sell within 30 calendar days in the same fund and account. : 我是先将growth fund 401k转到fidelity money market fund. 可以马上买SP500 : fund 吗？根据以上，以下， 不同funds 是可以的。对吗？ : Certain transactions are exempt from roundtrip violations. These include: : Any transactions in Fidelity Money Market Funds
Fidelity Money Market Funds不属于mutual fund可以随意进出，意思就是刚转成 Money Market的钱可以马上买其他fund，但是刚刚买的其他fund需要hold for 30days 才能卖出
【 在 Deflect2015 (Sam) 的大作中提到: 】 : A roundtrip is a mutual fund purchase or exchange purchase followed by a : sell or exchange sell within 30 calendar days in the same fund and account. : 我是先将growth fund 401k转到fidelity money market fund. 可以马上买SP500 : fund 吗？根据以上，以下， 不同funds 是可以的。对吗？ : Certain transactions are exempt from roundtrip violations. These include: : Any transactions in Fidelity Money Market Funds
From fund A to MM, and then go from MM to another fund B, can happen on the next day.
In fact, you can move from Fund A to Fund B on the same day. But it looks like your transition from A to MM is already done.
The excessive trade restriction is only on moving from A to another fund (MM or B) and then move back to A. For that, a 30-day window is enforced from the last time you move out of A.
Then how about moving from A to B, then to C, and then back to A?
【 在 dvbbs (H8NJT) 的大作中提到: 】 : From fund A to MM, and then go from MM to another fund B, can : happen on the next day. : In fact, you can move from Fund A to Fund B on the same day. : But it looks like your transition from A to MM is already done. : The excessive trade restriction is only on moving from A to : another fund (MM or B) and then move back to A. For that, a : 30-day window is enforced from the last time you move out of A.
So the strategy is to have two similar funds A and B. Then keep buying in A and keep selling in B. After 30 days, reverse it. Keep selling in A and keep buying in B?
That does not seem to do the trick. Probably need 3 funds A, B, C. Then keep buying in A and keep selling in B. After 30 days, use A and C and let B rest for 30 days.
【 在 Deflect2015 (Sam) 的大作中提到: 】 : You can't move back to fund A within 30 days.
Why do you want to move from Fund A to Fund B on the same day ?
You want to wait for the dip. Then move from Money market to Fund B, or back to Fund A after 30 days.
【 在 dvbbs (H8NJT) 的大作中提到: 】 : From fund A to MM, and then go from MM to another fund B, can : happen on the next day. : In fact, you can move from Fund A to Fund B on the same day. : But it looks like your transition from A to MM is already done. : The excessive trade restriction is only on moving from A to : another fund (MM or B) and then move back to A. For that, a : 30-day window is enforced from the last time you move out of A.
请教各位： 401K 里的Growth fund 转到 Fidelity money market, 需要等多久才能
再转到S&P500 fund ？应该不需要等30天吧。如果是30天之内，再转到转回到原来的
growth fund， 则是excessive trade. 这是不允许的。转到别的fund, SP500, 应该是允许的吧？
我听说的是 买-》卖 同一fund之间要超过30天。 你完全没有这个情况呀？
Money Market 一般不算那种fund。
MMKT不算round trip
俺在401k做短线就是找两个差不多的fund
一个低位买另一个高位卖
这样都不会触发restriction
【 在 Deflect2015 (Sam) 的大作中提到: 】
: 请教各位： 401K 里的Growth fund 转到 Fidelity money market, 需要等多久才能
: 再转到S&P500 fund ？应该不需要等30天吧。如果是30天之内，再转到转回到原来的: growth fund， 则是excessive trade. 这是不允许的。转到别的fund, SP500, 应该是
: 允许的吧？
谢谢！！！
【 在 dakedo (大蝌蚪) 的大作中提到: 】
: MMKT不算round trip
: 俺在401k做短线就是找两个差不多的fund
: 一个低位买另一个高位卖
: 这样都不会触发restriction
买了fund要一个月才准卖吧，你的买了后有时间限制吗？
我的401k就是转到brokerage link也还是需要持有一个月才准卖，你是一个月动一次？
【 在 dakedo (大蝌蚪) 的大作中提到: 】
: MMKT不算round trip
: 俺在401k做短线就是找两个差不多的fund
: 一个低位买另一个高位卖
: 这样都不会触发restriction
我这里好像随时可以卖
但两个round trip之后会受限
避免round trip
我都是一个fund只卖，
另一个fund一直买
就可以随时操作了
【 在 Ritrue (gg) 的大作中提到: 】
: 买了fund要一个月才准卖吧，你的买了后有时间限制吗？
: 我的401k就是转到brokerage link也还是需要持有一个月才准卖，你是一个月动一次？
这2个fund 涨跌一致吗？没看明白这样有什么好处
【 在 Ritrue (gg) 的大作中提到: 】
: 买了fund要一个月才准卖吧，你的买了后有时间限制吗？
: 我的401k就是转到brokerage link也还是需要持有一个月才准卖，你是一个月动一次？
A roundtrip is a mutual fund purchase or exchange purchase followed by a
sell or exchange sell within 30 calendar days in the same fund and account.
我是先将growth fund 401k转到fidelity money market fund. 可以马上买SP500
fund 吗？根据以上，以下， 不同funds 是可以的。对吗？
Certain transactions are exempt from roundtrip violations. These include:
Any transactions in Fidelity Money Market Funds
【 在 Ritrue (gg) 的大作中提到: 】
: 买了fund要一个月才准卖吧，你的买了后有时间限制吗？
: 我的401k就是转到brokerage link也还是需要持有一个月才准卖，你是一个月动一次？
An example from a company:
If Member A transfers $5,000 out of Fund A and puts $2,500 into Fund B and $2,500 into Fund C on December 1 and then transfers $25,000 out of Fund A and puts $20,000 into Fund B and $5,000 into Fund C on December 5, and then
transfers $10,000 out of Fund A and puts $10,000 into Fund C on December 6
and then transfers $23,000 out of Fund B into Fund A and $20,000 out of Fund C into Fund A on December 16, the entire series of transactions constitutes a Roundtrip Trade and is a Market Timing Trade because the aggregate amount of all trades into and out of Fund A exceeded $75,000 within a 30 day
period.
It is irrelevant that money has come out of one fund and been transferred
into two funds because the money has been returned to the original fund.
觉得关键是不能return to Fund A, original fund.
【 在 Deflect2015 (Sam) 的大作中提到: 】
: A roundtrip is a mutual fund purchase or exchange purchase followed by a
: sell or exchange sell within 30 calendar days in the same fund and account.
: 我是先将growth fund 401k转到fidelity money market fund. 可以马上买SP500
: fund 吗？根据以上，以下， 不同funds 是可以的。对吗？
: Certain transactions are exempt from roundtrip violations. These include:
: Any transactions in Fidelity Money Market Funds
没看懂，你只动一个fund中的部分资金，是吗？
我的目的是在可能的大调整时看能不能暂时卖了，再买回来。
【 在 dakedo (大蝌蚪) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我这里好像随时可以卖
: 但两个round trip之后会受限
: 避免round trip
: 我都是一个fund只卖，
: 另一个fund一直买
: 就可以随时操作了
Fidelity Money Market Funds不属于mutual fund可以随意进出，意思就是刚转成
Money Market的钱可以马上买其他fund，但是刚刚买的其他fund需要hold for 30days
才能卖出
【 在 Deflect2015 (Sam) 的大作中提到: 】
: A roundtrip is a mutual fund purchase or exchange purchase followed by a
: sell or exchange sell within 30 calendar days in the same fund and account.
: 我是先将growth fund 401k转到fidelity money market fund. 可以马上买SP500
: fund 吗？根据以上，以下， 不同funds 是可以的。对吗？
: Certain transactions are exempt from roundtrip violations. These include:
: Any transactions in Fidelity Money Market Funds
Yes, you are right !!!
Thank you.
【 在 Ritrue (gg) 的大作中提到: 】
: Fidelity Money Market Funds不属于mutual fund可以随意进出，意思就是刚转成
: Money Market的钱可以马上买其他fund，但是刚刚买的其他fund需要hold for
30days
: 才能卖出
: .
: 我都是一个fund只卖，
: 另一个fund一直买
没看懂，那你中间从一直买的fund转到只卖的fund吗？
相当于三个点：两个fund，一个MMKT 走单向循环？
【 在 dakedo (大蝌蚪) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我这里好像随时可以卖
: 但两个round trip之后会受限
: 避免round trip
: 我都是一个fund只卖，
: 另一个fund一直买
: 就可以随时操作了
From fund A to MM, and then go from MM to another fund B, can
happen on the next day.
In fact, you can move from Fund A to Fund B on the same day.
But it looks like your transition from A to MM is already done.
The excessive trade restriction is only on moving from A to
another fund (MM or B) and then move back to A. For that, a
30-day window is enforced from the last time you move out of A.
【 在 Deflect2015 (Sam) 的大作中提到: 】
: 请教各位： 401K 里的Growth fund 转到 Fidelity money market, 需要等多久才能
: 再转到S&P500 fund ？应该不需要等30天吧。如果是30天之内，再转到转回到原来的: growth fund， 则是excessive trade. 这是不允许的。转到别的fund, SP500, 应该是
: 允许的吧？
他可以等30天再rebalance.
否则， 一直卖的fund里就没有钱了。
【 在 gogo2006 (you got it) 的大作中提到: 】
: 没看懂，那你中间从一直买的fund转到只卖的fund吗？
: 相当于三个点：两个fund，一个MMKT 走单向循环？
Then how about moving from A to B, then to C, and then back to A?
【 在 dvbbs (H8NJT) 的大作中提到: 】
: From fund A to MM, and then go from MM to another fund B, can
: happen on the next day.
: In fact, you can move from Fund A to Fund B on the same day.
: But it looks like your transition from A to MM is already done.
: The excessive trade restriction is only on moving from A to
: another fund (MM or B) and then move back to A. For that, a
: 30-day window is enforced from the last time you move out of A.
You can't move back to fund A within 30 days.
【 在 gogo2006 (you got it) 的大作中提到: 】
: Then how about moving from A to B, then to C, and then back to A?
大调整又不用天天搞
我买的fund两个Round trip才触发restriction
【 在 Ritrue (gg) 的大作中提到: 】
: 没看懂，你只动一个fund中的部分资金，是吗？
: 我的目的是在可能的大调整时看能不能暂时卖了，再买回来。
I see.
So the strategy is to have two similar funds A and B.
Then keep buying in A and keep selling in B.
After 30 days, reverse it. Keep selling in A and keep buying in B?
That does not seem to do the trick. Probably need 3 funds A, B, C.
Then keep buying in A and keep selling in B.
After 30 days, use A and C and let B rest for 30 days.
【 在 Deflect2015 (Sam) 的大作中提到: 】
: You can't move back to fund A within 30 days.
Why do you want to move from Fund A to Fund B on the same day ?
You want to wait for the dip. Then move from Money market to Fund B, or back to Fund A after 30 days.
【 在 dvbbs (H8NJT) 的大作中提到: 】
: From fund A to MM, and then go from MM to another fund B, can
: happen on the next day.
: In fact, you can move from Fund A to Fund B on the same day.
: But it looks like your transition from A to MM is already done.
: The excessive trade restriction is only on moving from A to
: another fund (MM or B) and then move back to A. For that, a
: 30-day window is enforced from the last time you move out of A.
我觉得大家有误解：
sell A today, buy A tmrw
这是round-trip 吗？
我看过Fidelity的信件，和上面引用的：
A roundtrip is a mutual fund purchase or exchange purchase followed by a
sell or exchange sell within 30 calendar days in the same fund and account.
这个定义的话，只有 buy-sell 才算roundtrip，而 sell-buy 不算。
还是我理解不对？