the only hope is either from China, or big IT firms, or some startup. no, the traditional car manufactures are hopeless. German government asked their car producers to pool their fund for battery factory and charging infrastructure, and offered huge tax incentives. They all refused. Big company turn around stores are extremely rare, high level execs are paid millions of dollars per year, if you were them, would do try to go with the flow to keep your job or would you try to invest billions of dollars to something nobody understand in your company? It is difficult for people to appreciate the lower TCO of EV, because it take long time to show that. the car has few moving parts compared to ICE, and it can even self-diagnosis with proper software. When tesla's manufacturing process mature, you will rarely need to bring the car to service. pretty much the only thing you need to spend money on are electricity and tire. And when a car runs to about 150k mile, replace the battery pack you get another 150k mile life. by that time the battery pack should be cheaper too. In about 10 to 15 years the used car buyers would realize they can get an used EV that is much less likely to break than a traditional car. this can push the demand for EV to the new car market.
falcon wing door caused too much trouble and negative press. the mono-post second row seat can not fold flat. many people disappointed. now they offer fold flat traditional seat options, should have done that in the beginning. model x could be a lower price suv with more volume and cost less to develop, they could have skipped the last share offering if they start from a minimal viable product and go up from there. glad to see Musk learn from his mistakes, gutted HUD and many features from model 3.
【 在 fallenone (亏飞蛙) 的大作中提到: 】 model x提前上市一年也没什么区别吧，2015年以前model s需求增长并没有放缓，还在 努力增产，加一款车型对财务没什么帮助。model x推出的时间没啥问题，feature太多 导致生产执行问题大，前几个季度改生产线就花了几个亿，次品率也太高。 上周五Elon再次用到production hell这个词把我吓一哆嗦。 model
I cannot agree with you totally. As long as a game changer can the turn the tide, those established factories will have to jump in to ride along. We may be on the verge of this historic moment, as Volvo, Porsche, maybe also VW all started to show genuine motivations and efforts with their electric car initiatives. EV is supposed to run cheap however not the currently way overpriced Tesla. I do concur that China is a / the decisive advocate promoting the EV cause for the human beings.
【 在 remus (没意思) 的大作中提到: 】 the only hope is either from China, or big IT firms, or some startup. no, the traditional car manufactures are hopeless. German government asked their car producers to pool their fund for battery factory and charging infrastructure, and offered huge tax incentives. They all refused. Big company turn around stores are extremely rare, high level execs are paid millions of dollars per year, if you were them, would do try to go with the flow to keep your job or would you try to invest billions of dollars to something nobody understand in your company? It is difficult for people to appreciate the lower TCO of ...................
偏偏我是纯理科生，而且是曾经搞了7年汽车用储氢材料方案的千老，顶级期刊也灌过 很多水。估计我对油车对环境的危害的概念就是这么来的，文章写多了，自己都相信了。 tesla 2016年量产车就比保时捷ppt忽悠的2020的车还牛逼，我还没傻到去买保时捷。 工作的缘故使得我彻底服了tesla，不单单是用户，还是股民，等着过两年tesla股票给我再涨个X出来，哈哈哈！
我觉得大厂里面认真想做电车的可能还是大众，毕竟在计划造电池厂。加入电车真的替代油车，电池的重要性和现在油车的发动机一样，没有电池什么都是白搭。目前大厂里在这方面好像只有大众在认真准备。宝马i3出来的相对早，但我觉得总公司根本不在意这个产品，要不宝马其他车都挺好看的，为啥i3好像故意设计的这么丑……
电车最重要的是安全性和续航力 - Tesla的安全性我举证多次了，能在没有前置引擎的情况下安全测试连前三都排不上，这种被碾压你能意淫成碾压，更何况自驾系统是拿公众性命做小白鼠；你避而不谈的续航力，没有哪家会只买一辆Tesla，因为长途不实用
。你非要把实际意义不大的加速性，破烂中控大屏幕拉进来凑数，很pathetic，很
desperate啊。
刚刚有人说youtube上的著名MKBHD对顶配model S的测试发现“结果趴窝好多次了，方
向盘莫名的就打不动了，还是驾驶中”，我都不知道model S这么多年了居然可靠性这
么差，真是我所说的标准美国大路货。
上周五Elon再次用到production hell这个词把我吓一哆嗦。
斯拉的工程师在前方碰撞时司机到底是轻微脑震荡还是断几根肋骨之间选择了前者而没排第一就被你这翻来覆去说我也是醉了。n多实例里面无论是车主还是救援人员都不敢
相信司机还活着就是特斯拉安全性最好的证明。
然后autopilot，看来我给你科普和资料也都是白瞎。NHTSA的报告黑纸白字说了
autopilot降低了40%的事故率，你这只能一直固执己见。
到此为止了。
黑心高价的理由，最新的测试是被前三碾压。
自动驾驶出的车祸无论如何都可以看出Tesla在设计和测试上没有尽责 - 人命关天的事在这种缺品又缺钱的CEO / 公司看来不需要付法律责任就可以了。
【 在 youngboy 的来信中提到: 】
:
: yeson -
:
: 你的问题非常的白痴，完全是在丢人现眼
:
: 无知者无畏，古话太对了
:
: 和你说话是基本鸡对鸭讲
:
:
: ...................
no, the traditional car manufactures are hopeless.
German government asked their car producers to pool their fund
for battery factory and charging infrastructure, and offered huge
tax incentives. They all refused.
Big company turn around stores are extremely rare, high level execs
are paid millions of dollars per year, if you were them, would do try
to go with the flow to keep your job or would you try to invest billions
of dollars to something nobody understand in your company?
It is difficult for people to appreciate the lower TCO of
EV, because it take long time to show that.
the car has few moving parts compared to ICE, and it can
even self-diagnosis with proper software. When tesla's
manufacturing process mature,
you will rarely need to bring the car to service. pretty much the only
thing you need to spend money on are electricity and tire.
And when a car runs to about 150k mile, replace the battery pack you
get another 150k mile life. by that time the battery pack should be
cheaper too.
In about 10 to 15 years the used car buyers would realize they can get
an used EV that is much less likely to break than a traditional car.
this can push the demand for EV to the new car market.
the mono-post second row seat can not fold flat. many people disappointed.
now they offer fold flat traditional seat options, should have done that in the beginning.
model x could be a lower price suv with more volume and cost less to develop,
they could have skipped the last share offering if they start from a minimal viable product and go up from there.
glad to see Musk learn from his mistakes, gutted HUD and many features from model 3.
As long as a game changer can the turn the tide, those established factories will have to jump in to ride along. We may be on the verge of this historic moment, as Volvo, Porsche, maybe also VW all started to show genuine
motivations and efforts with their electric car initiatives.
EV is supposed to run cheap however not the currently way overpriced Tesla.
I do concur that China is a / the decisive advocate promoting the EV cause
for the human beings.
2014年开始出样车，最早Audi r8 e，later cancelled
2015年所谓Tesla killer 已经一大堆了，所谓mission e
就在其中
2016年models 3 出样车开始接受预定
今天models 3投产了所谓的Tesla killer一个影子都没有
这个不叫 genuine effort
原本是想发版上，但是按错了健。而且搞了两次。
这个MITBBS是上世纪的古董，不太会用。
还要卖那么贵，我都不知道楼主一天脑子在想什么。
tesla赚钱全砸研发和上产能，奠定和定义新一代汽车行业标准和基础设施，楼主认为
这是黑心忽悠。
我买tesla S，8w多英镑太超值，而且还能带来道德上的优越感，我也在为更干净的未
来出一份力，以至于鄙视所有开油车的。好吧，我是tesla脑残粉，骂我吧。
我以前搞氢能源多年，到处开会，08年时一个会上，英国拉夫堡大学一伙人拿了政府
funding试图用当时最好的技术拼凑个电动车，结论是锂电完全没得搞，还是氢能源有
点曙光。搞的我也以为elon那时搞的roaster肯定是骗子！直到model s出来，才醒悟，砖家教授博后都是一坨屎，99.99%都是混混。
楼主典型的100多年前骑马的看不惯开车的。你们还得找地方加油，哼！我家的马到处
有草吃，还能下崽。
这个讨论系列其实不如以前的一个有技术含量和干货，尽管大家对Musk / Tesla的人品和产品缺陷都是有共识的：
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t1/Automobile/35308047_0_1.html
我尤其喜欢这个贴子, 把Musk这种巨蟹男典型烂人品描画的淋漓尽至。我补充一点，巨蟹男的一个通病是爱自我宣传和吹嘘，人品不可预料：
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Automobile/35308505_0.html
发信人: kakashi0 (Kakashi), 信区: Automobile
标 题: Re: 关于电动车的先进性
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Feb 9 14:38:04 2016, 美东)
电动车是有优点，但是Tesla不是什么好东西。Elon Musk就是个超级大骗子，基本的安全和可靠性常识都不知道，就知道瞎指挥。基本就是个傻逼富二代，物理本科毕业，上大学时不务正业，学艺不精。他所谓的“伟大发明”，包括space x火箭和hyperloop，没一个是靠谱的。
- 触摸屏根本不安全，却被Tesla当个宝。Lexus，奔驰等公司都试过，后来抛弃不用了。
- Tesla的自动驾驶功能根本就不可靠，拿用户的生命来做实验。其它公司不是不能做
，只是别人在100%可靠之前绝对不会拿给人用。
- 其它各种让人笑掉牙的设计失误和安全性问题，甚至自燃：
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/220237-tesla-model-s-catches-fire-at-supercharger-station-in-norway
- Tesla公司内部极其混乱，根本不知道自己的方向。员工不受尊重，超时过劳工作，
工资少得可怜。中上层管理傻逼众多，拍Elon Musk马屁的总是受宠。基本处于中国文
化大革命的文化氛围。
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Tesla-Motors-RVW9468433.htm
所以，还是等着其它成熟低调点的汽车公司出电动车吧。。。
再有等Porsche 2019 / 2020出了高配才八万美元的Mission e，又能让你有白左的意淫优越感，又省钱，车子又up to the Porsche standard，你干吗不不从Musk的忽悠贼船上跳下来？
再有你的“你们还得找地方加油，哼！我家的马到处有草吃，还能下崽。”，这是什么笑话和疯言疯语？
就别做梦了。就像指望传统音响行业来建立今天的音乐产业？100年后都别想。
保时捷这些年做了些啥？不要拿出来和tesla比了，差太远太远。就像发烧友要玩黑胶
就玩吧，自己开心就好，千万不要意淫啥性能指标。
tesla已经不是一家车厂，甚至是下一代能源基础设施供应商，elon的vision和执行力
不是保时捷boardroom里面的行尸走肉能比的。
很多水。估计我对油车对环境的危害的概念就是这么来的，文章写多了，自己都相信了。
tesla 2016年量产车就比保时捷ppt忽悠的2020的车还牛逼，我还没傻到去买保时捷。
工作的缘故使得我彻底服了tesla，不单单是用户，还是股民，等着过两年tesla股票给我再涨个X出来，哈哈哈！
好像理工科杂志上灌水靠星座和人品来反驳别人数据，peers review是过不去的吧。