Where are the good guys with guns?

FortyNiner
楼主 (未名空间)

3/17 Georgia, then Boulder, then Chicago and Philadelphia yesterday, then
Virginia Beach today(though 3 separate shootings, but at least one is
considered as a mass shooting). At least five mass shootings in just 11
days. Which one was stopped by a good civilian with a gun?
w
wang9

大家都在打靶场照相,发朋友圈。然后上网讲几句狠话。

都是叶公好龙。

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: 3/17 Georgia, then Boulder, then Chicago and Philadelphia yesterday, then : Virginia Beach today(though 3 separate shootings, but at least one is
: considered as a mass shooting). At least five mass shootings in just 11
: days. Which one was stopped by a good civilian with a gun?

FortyNiner

Look at all the notorious mass shootings the last twenty some years,
Columbine, Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Aurora, San Bernadino,
Sandy Hook, Orlando Nightclub, Thousand Oaks, Parkfield, and LV. Any more
you remember? Which one is stopped by a good civilian with a gun?

FortyNiner

Yeah, there is one that I remember. A TX church shooting, the gunner was
chased after by some good civilian, then died from a car crash?
l
laoselang

麻痹的都是深蓝shithole
不让合法持枪上街

守法的人手里没枪,怎么拦住?
l
laoselang

麻痹的都是深蓝shithole
不让合法持枪上街

守法的人手里没枪,怎么拦住?
FortyNiner

Some are not blue states. For example, Georgia, Fl, and TX. Columbine
shooting took place when CO was having a GOP governor. Plus, blue states
does not mean people cannot carry concealed guns. For example, you can
carry concealed in CA as long as you get license.

【 在 laoselang (LAOSELANG(好吧,别打了,我就是兔子)) 的大作中提到: 】
: 麻痹的都是深蓝shithole
: 不让合法持枪上街
: 守法的人手里没枪,怎么拦住?

l
luminb

Provide statistics man. Not isolated examples. Give you a hint, how many
death due to gun violence in all the states. Let’s see which states and
cities win.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Some are not blue states. For example, Georgia, Fl, and TX. Columbine
: shooting took place when CO was having a GOP governor. Plus, blue states : does not mean people cannot carry concealed guns. For example, you can
: carry concealed in CA as long as you get license.
:

predator

Columnine shooting was in a school, in fuck your mom a gun free zone
introduced by your garbage party. It's the same for this Boulder shooting.
Gun free zone is really a free slaughtering zone. Can you idiot shut your
ass hole?

【 在 FortyNiner(Niner) 的大作中提到: 】

: Some are not blue states. For example, Georgia, Fl, and TX.
Columbine

: shooting took place when CO was having a GOP governor. Plus, blue
states

: does not mean people cannot carry concealed guns. For example, you
can

: carry concealed in CA as long as you get license.

:

FortyNiner

OK. Exclude Columbine, how about the others? You call GOP my garbage party
? What is your no-garbage party? Show how you are not an idiot.

【 在 predator (奥森※东西永隔如参商) 的大作中提到: 】
: Columnine shooting was in a school, in fuck your mom a gun free zone
: introduced by your garbage party. It's the same for this Boulder shooting.
: Gun free zone is really a free slaughtering zone. Can you idiot shut your : ass hole?
:
: Some are not blue states. For example, Georgia, Fl, and TX.
: Columbine
:
: shooting took place when CO was having a GOP governor. Plus, blue
: states
:
: does not mean people cannot carry concealed guns. For example, you : can
: ...................

FortyNiner

I was asking which one mass shooting was stopped by a good civilian with a
gun. Do you have the answer? Yeah, you can deflect the question by asking the stats, why don't you provide it if you want to talk about it? You are answering my question by throwing me another question?

【 在 luminb (Gooder) 的大作中提到: 】
: Provide statistics man. Not isolated examples. Give you a hint, how many
: death due to gun violence in all the states. Let’s see which states and
: cities win.

predator

You are an idiot who cant read. I already told you this Boulder shooting was also in a gun free grocery store. Many shootings were stopped by gun
carrying good citizens. MSM just refuse to report those. You are one of the typical liberal
zombies who keep getting egg on your stupid ugly face. The question is will you please shut the fuck up or keep illustrating that you liberals are lowly informed dumb fucks?

【 在 FortyNiner(Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
<br>: OK. Exclude Columbine, how about the others? You call GOP my
garbage
party
<br>: ? What is your no-garbage party? Show how you are not an idiot.
<br>

FortyNiner

Oh, thousands lives were saved by gun owners, they just were not reported. Wonder how you get the info? From little papers? Or you are the one who
have saved thousands and therefore self-evident? You don't need to shut up your retarded mouth or your smart beautiful ass, give us your numbers. I
want to know more about your "Many shootings were stopped by gun carrying
good citizens
." I know it is not your obligation to "educate" people here, just leak us a little info so that we are not fooled by the liberal media.

【 在 predator (奥森※东西永隔如参商) 的大作中提到: 】
: You are an idiot who cant read. I already told you this Boulder shooting
was
: also in a gun free grocery store. Many shootings were stopped by gun
: carrying good citizens. MSM just refuse to report those. You are one of
the
: typical liberal
: zombies who keep getting egg on your stupid ugly face. The question is
will
: you please shut the fuck up or keep illustrating that you liberals are
lowly
: informed dumb fucks?
:
: OK. Exclude Columbine, how about the others? You call GOP my
: garbage
: party
: ...................

j
jhe123
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/19/3-million-americans-carry-loaded-handguns-with-them-every-single-day-study-finds/

2017年的调查发现,全美国只有3百万人是天天带枪,外加另外6百万人至少一个月带一次,但带枪的人高比例集中于20来岁南方州的保守派中。就算平均分布,也不过100个
里面一个肯定带枪的,大部分mass shooting又发生在Gun Free Zone, 所以单单从概率上讲,有枪好人制止mass shooting就是极为罕见的事情。尤其是当牵涉到枪击人群少
于100时,理论上很可能一个带枪的人都没有。

所以,因为带枪的人实在太少,所以用枪制止mass shooting的成功案例也不会多。

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: 3/17 Georgia, then Boulder, then Chicago and Philadelphia yesterday, then : Virginia Beach today(though 3 separate shootings, but at least one is
: considered as a mass shooting). At least five mass shootings in just 11
: days. Which one was stopped by a good civilian with a gun?

predator

Keep humiliating yourself, idiot. Your mom must be so embarrassed of your
low IQ and self esteem. This is just one of many incidents because it had to make news. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_St._Cloud,_Minnesota_knife_attack
"He was shot dead inside the mall by an off-duty law enforcement
officer who intervened"

【 在 FortyNiner(Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
<br>: Oh, thousands lives were saved by gun owners, they just were not
reported.
<br>: Wonder how you get the info? From little papers? Or you are
the one
who
<br>: have saved thousands and therefore self-evident? You don't need to
shut up
<br>: your retarded mouth or your smart beautiful ass, give us your
numbers.
I
<br>: want to know more about your "Many shootings were stopped
by gun
carrying
<br>: good citizens
<br>: ." I know it is not your obligation to "educate" people here, just
leak us
<br>: a little info so that we are not fooled by the liberal media.
<br>: was
<br>: the
: ...................
<br>

FortyNiner

Using one to defend thousands, you are so smart. Your mom must be very
proud of you.

【 在 predator (奥森※东西永隔如参商) 的大作中提到: 】
: Keep humiliating yourself, idiot. Your mom must be so embarrassed of your : low IQ and self esteem. This is just one of many incidents because it had to
: make news. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_St._Cloud,_Minnesota_
knife_
: attack
: "He was shot dead inside the mall by an off-duty law enforcement
: officer who intervened"
:
: Oh, thousands lives were saved by gun owners, they just were not
: reported.
:
: Wonder how you get the info? From little papers? Or you are
: the one
: ...................

predator

This is just a famous one. And do you idiot really understand what is mass
shooting? The majority of the socalled mass shootings were Democrats voting gansters shooting other Democrats voting gansters. They naturally were
stopped by guns. I like such mass shootings.

【 在 FortyNiner(Niner) 的大作中提到: 】

: Using one to defend thousands, you are so smart. Your mom must be
very

: proud of you.

: to

: knife_

FortyNiner

OK. Let me lower my expectation on you guys. Then at least give me some
reports of gun violence, not necessarily mass shootings, stopped by good
civilians with guns. Don't tell me there are only a few because most are
not reported.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/19/3-million-americans-carry-loaded-handguns-with-them-every-single-day-study-finds/
: 2017年的调查发现,全美国只有3百万人是天天带枪,外加另外6百万人至少一个月带一
: 次,但带枪的人高比例集中于20来岁南方州的保守派中。就算平均分布,也不过100个
: 里面一个肯定带枪的,大部分mass shooting又发生在Gun Free Zone, 所以单单从概率
: 上讲,有枪好人制止mass shooting就是极为罕见的事情。尤其是当牵涉到枪击人群少
: 于100时,理论上很可能一个带枪的人都没有。
: 所以,因为带枪的人实在太少,所以用枪制止mass shooting的成功案例也不会多。

FortyNiner

For one famous one, there are ten notorious ones. Yes, you can blame it on Dems, as I said before, some did not happen in Dem states. You are sure all of those victims in Georgia were Dems?

【 在 predator (奥森※东西永隔如参商) 的大作中提到: 】
: This is just a famous one. And do you idiot really understand what is mass
: shooting? The majority of the socalled mass shootings were Democrats
voting
: gansters shooting other Democrats voting gansters. They naturally were
: stopped by guns. I like such mass shootings.
:
: Using one to defend thousands, you are so smart. Your mom must be
: very
:
: proud of you.
:
: to
:
: knife_
:

FortyNiner

Just to let you know, using terms like "idiot" does not make your argument
stronger. It only shows other people what you are. Just in case you don't know. I never start using terms like that, I only respond with terms like
that. Just check, you are not a new ID. I was trying to teach an old dog
new trick, foolish of me.

【 在 predator (奥森※东西永隔如参商) 的大作中提到: 】
: This is just a famous one. And do you idiot really understand what is mass
: shooting? The majority of the socalled mass shootings were Democrats
voting
: gansters shooting other Democrats voting gansters. They naturally were
: stopped by guns. I like such mass shootings.
:
: Using one to defend thousands, you are so smart. Your mom must be
: very
:
: proud of you.
:
: to
:
: knife_
:

p
potassium

how about useful idiot?

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Just to let you know, using terms like "idiot" does not make your argument
: stronger. It only shows other people what you are. Just in case you don't
: know. I never start using terms like that, I only respond with terms like
: that.
: voting

FortyNiner

Not just "idiot". Look at his first reply in this thread, he was full of
trash.

【 在 potassium (镇) 的大作中提到: 】
: how about useful idiot?
: t

predator

Unlike your full shit load of "brain"

【 在 FortyNiner(Niner) 的大作中提到: 】

: Not just "idiot". Look at his first reply in this thread, he was full of

: trash.

p
potassium

his words maybe harsh, but you do look like a useful idiot, tbh.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Not just "idiot". Look at his first reply in this thread, he was full of : trash.

FortyNiner

not more than you. Really, I am not pretending to be humble now.

【 在 potassium (镇) 的大作中提到: 】
: his words maybe harsh, but you do look like a useful idiot, tbh.

FortyNiner

You must be someone's MJ. Show your face. Smart guy. See, you don't need to pretend to be cool by using trash. I don't need to resort to it, but if you want, you are free to choose how you present yourself to others. It is your choice. I am only responding.

【 在 predator (奥森※东西永隔如参商) 的大作中提到: 】
: Unlike your full shit load of "brain"
:
: Not just "idiot". Look at his first reply in this thread, he was
full
: of
:
: trash.
:

p
potassium

11 times a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy, saving lives
https://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/collection/good-guy-gun-stopped-
bad-guy-gun/

just FYI, using the right term to google you can land on this in first page.

by asking stupid questions here, you are exposing yourself as either
incompetent or an internet troll.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: not more than you. Really, I am not pretending to be humble now.

FortyNiner

11 times, impressive. And this 11 times dates all the way back to at least 2007. Do you know how many lives were lost to gun violence
since 2007? Impress me again with your google skill. If you are
embarrassed
to say that number, just give me the number for these recent five mass
shootings.

【 在 potassium (镇) 的大作中提到: 】
: 11 times a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy, saving lives
: https://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/collection/good-guy-gun-stopped-
: bad-guy-gun/
: just FYI, using the right term to google you can land on this in first
page.
: by asking stupid questions here, you are exposing yourself as either
: incompetent or an internet troll.

l
luminb

Oh man, you keep typing English but you have dyslexia. I was questioning
your statement saying that some shooting are not in blue states. Provide
stats and tell us how many are in blue states and how many are not.
As for good civilians using gun to stop violence, well, can you calculate
the prevention of something that didn’t happen? For example, can you
calculate how many death a seatbelt can prevent? You would compare death in a time period at a place without using seatbelt and that from at a place
that does enforce seatbelt and you would know right? Isn’t that the
comparison and stats I was asking for?

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: I was asking which one mass shooting was stopped by a good civilian with a
: gun. Do you have the answer? Yeah, you can deflect the question by
asking
: the stats, why don't you provide it if you want to talk about it? You
are
: answering my question by throwing me another question?

p
potassium

"banning guns" will not solve gun violence, as "banning criminals" will not erase crimes.

now it is your call to keep being incompetent or a troll.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: 11 times, impressive. Do you know how many lives were lost to gun
violence
: each year? If you am embarrassed to say that number, just give me the
: number for these five mass shootings.
: page.

FortyNiner

Of course. Eventually it is the people we need to fix. However, before we can get to the root of the problem, which is a bigger task, limit their
hands on lethal tools, just
like we don't give guns to babies. Banning guns will make them 1000 times
more difficult to get, and base on demand and supply, guns will be hundreds times, if not thousand times, more expensive. Then not too many people can afford getting guns. Yes, they still can have other tools, but other tools are not as lethal, otherwise today's gun-violence perpetrators would have
chosen other tools.

【 在 potassium (镇) 的大作中提到: 】
: "banning guns" will not solve gun violence, as "banning criminals" will
not
: erase crimes.
: now it is your call to keep being incompetent or a troll.
: violence

FortyNiner

I gave you the names of the red states already in one of my previous posts. If you want to expand the topic, you provide the data.

【 在 luminb (Gooder) 的大作中提到: 】
: Oh man, you keep typing English but you have dyslexia. I was questioning
: your statement saying that some shooting are not in blue states. Provide
: stats and tell us how many are in blue states and how many are not.
: As for good civilians using gun to stop violence, well, can you calculate : the prevention of something that didn’t happen? For example, can you
: calculate how many death a seatbelt can prevent? You would compare death
in
: a time period at a place without using seatbelt and that from at a place
: that does enforce seatbelt and you would know right? Isn’t that the
: comparison and stats I was asking for?
: asking
: ...................

l
luminb

Oh oh, who is deflecting now? You are the one who raised the question about good people with guns don’t prevent anything

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: I gave you the names of the red states already in one of my previous posts.
: If you want to expand the topic, you provide the data.
: in

l
luminb

If I provide stats, would you kill your own id and stop putting out shit
here? Make that promise and I will

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: I gave you the names of the red states already in one of my previous posts.
: If you want to expand the topic, you provide the data.
: in

FortyNiner

I was not deflecting. Why do I want to spend time to do what you want? If you want to discuss something and make a point, the burden is on you to
provide some data as the talking point. You want to expand the topic, so
you need to spend time to provide it. If you do your dual diligence, I will do mine. I already provide my data as a talking point, those are the mass shootings I mentioned in my previous posts. Potassium at least did some
reaching to find 11 since 2007. What is your data?

【 在 luminb (Gooder) 的大作中提到: 】
: Oh oh, who is deflecting now? You are the one who raised the question
about
: good people with guns don’t prevent anything
: .

SQL


Like the mother of all mass shootings. It happened in Nevada which had
garbage RINO governor in 2017.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: OK. Exclude Columbine, how about the others? You call GOP my garbage
party
: ? What is your no-garbage party? Show how you are not an idiot.

FortyNiner

And the RINO voters elected the RINO governor? The RINO voters passed the
gun laws? Right, any GOPs other GOPs don't like, just label them RINOs.
Problem solved! Really?

【 在 SQL (月光下的房黑) 的大作中提到: 】
: Like the mother of all mass shootings. It happened in Nevada which had
: garbage RINO governor in 2017.
: party

l
luminb

Like I said, you made a claim based on your imagination, not data. When I
questioned your claim, I have to provide data to prove you wrong?
Also, I don’t want to waste time on low life. If you want me to, at least
commit to something, such as stop coming here to claim shit. If you promise, I can entertain. If you chicken out, I understand. An elementary schooler
would know the gun related death rates in these states, right?

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: I was not deflecting. Why do I want to spend time to do what you want?
If
: you want to discuss something and make a point, the burden is on you to
: provide some data as the talking point. You want to expand the topic, so : you need to spend time to provide it. If you do your dual diligence, I
will
: do mine. I already provide my data as a talking point, those are the
mass
: shootings I mentioned in my previous posts. Potassium at least did some
: reaching to find 11 since 2007. What is your data?
: about

FortyNiner

I HAVE given names of some red states, have you killed your ID? Why do I
need to kill my ID when you give me some names? What is your logic? Is it some new logic invented the last twenty years since I took my Logic class at college?

【 在 luminb (Gooder) 的大作中提到: 】
: If I provide stats, would you kill your own id and stop putting out shit
: here? Make that promise and I will
: .

FortyNiner

I didn't know those mass shootings are my imagination. Thanks for telling
me.

【 在 luminb (Gooder) 的大作中提到: 】
: Like I said, you made a claim based on your imagination, not data. When I : questioned your claim, I have to provide data to prove you wrong?
: Also, I don’t want to waste time on low life. If you want me to, at least
: commit to something, such as stop coming here to claim shit. If you
promise,
: I can entertain. If you chicken out, I understand. An elementary schooler
: would know the gun related death rates in these states, right?
: If
: will
: mass

l
luminb

Oh wow, names of red states are stats? Lol you just crack me up

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: I HAVE given names of some red states, have you killed your ID? Why do I : need to kill my ID when you give me some names? What is your logic? Is
it
: some new logic invented the last twenty years since I took my Logic class at
: college?

j
jhe123
https://concealednation.org/guns-saving-lives/

用枪自卫的案例可以到这里去看,实际案例肯定不止这些。大的媒体一般倾向于报道死人多的轰动案件,这些犯罪被制止的在大媒体眼里本来就没啥新闻价值。

另外需要说明的是,你不应该对带枪的人有任何期望。我带枪只是为了保护自己和家人,不是为了保护其他人的,那是警察的任务。而且即使是警察,在保护他人时也是在自己安全有足够保障时进行。你压根儿就不该指望你遇到危险时其他人来帮你,你应该对自己的安危负责。

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: OK. Let me lower my expectation on you guys. Then at least give me some : reports of gun violence, not necessarily mass shootings, stopped by good
: civilians with guns. Don't tell me there are only a few because most are : not reported.

FortyNiner

Agree, I am not expecting others to save my life. However, gun-right
fighters often use "gun owners save life by preventing gun violence" as
argument to support gun ownership.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: https://concealednation.org/guns-saving-lives/
: 用枪自卫的案例可以到这里去看,实际案例肯定不止这些。大的媒体一般倾向于报道死
: 人多的轰动案件,这些犯罪被制止的在大媒体眼里本来就没啥新闻价值。
: 另外需要说明的是,你不应该对带枪的人有任何期望。我带枪只是为了保护自己和家人
: ,不是为了保护其他人的,那是警察的任务。而且即使是警察,在保护他人时也是在自
: 己安全有足够保障时进行。你压根儿就不该指望你遇到危险时其他人来帮你,你应该对
: 自己的安危负责。

FortyNiner

Do you think only numbers are data?

【 在 luminb (Gooder) 的大作中提到: 】
: Oh wow, names of red states are stats? Lol you just crack me up
: it
: at

j
jhe123

2A唯一的目的是让平民拥枪,必要时对抗政府,干掉政府官员。当然这话两边都不好明说,所以拥枪反枪的才扯啥自卫啊犯罪啊这些附带衍生出来的东西。

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Agree, I am not expecting others to save my life. However, gun-right
: fighters often use "gun owners save life by preventing gun violence" as
: argument to support gun ownership.

l
luminb

Stats, my friend, stats. Not “data”.
Well whatever floats your boat. You just showed the entire forum what you
have got

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Do you think only numbers are data?

FortyNiner

This is really outdated. 250 years ago, you grab a whole bunch of farmers
with guns, you got yourself an army to at least have a fight. Therefore, at that time, guns could provide a check on the government. Now, with all the advance in weaponry, guns are just a joke to "必要时对抗政府". They are
more like tools for criminals.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: 2A唯一的目的是让平民拥枪,必要时对抗政府,干掉政府官员。当然这话两边都不好明
: 说,所以拥枪反枪的才扯啥自卫啊犯罪啊这些附带衍生出来的东西。

j
jhe123

邦迪农场就说明2A显然没有过时。前不久广州刚炸了村委会,这是我此次爆炸案的评论:
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t1/Military/59861413_0_1.html

发信人: jhe123 (jhe), 信区: Military
标 题: Re: 广州番禺村委会被炸,伤亡惨重
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Mar 22 10:04:19 2021, 美东)

呵呵,谁再说美国2A没用的?搞炸药毕竟不容易,其次大部分人不一定会用炸药。有2A的话,每个人都可能掏枪干掉政府官员。

不管在中国还是美国,平民持有和官员同归于尽的手段和装备都应该是天赋人权。

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: This is really outdated. 250 years ago, you grab a whole bunch of farmers
: with guns, you got yourself an army to at least have a fight. Therefore, at
: that time, guns could provide a check on the government. Now, with all
the
: advance in weaponry, guns are just a joke to "必要时对抗政府". They are : more tools for criminals.

FortyNiner

As a major in science, stats is only a portion of data. Anyway, what is
your logic behind me killing my ID when you provide "stats" but you HAVE NOT killed your ID when I HAVE provided "data"? Though I am old, I still want to learn. You can be my "one logic teacher".

【 在 luminb (Gooder) 的大作中提到: 】
: Stats, my friend, stats. Not “data”.
: Well whatever floats your boat. You just showed the entire forum what you : have got

FortyNiner

If you just want to kill some corrupted officials, knives can do the job too
. Guns are more for easily killing more than one, but knives are good
enough for ambushing one or two. Plus, considering the benefit and
tradeoffs, guns have been a real bad idea to serve this purpose.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: 邦迪农场就说明2A显然没有过时。前不久广州刚炸了村委会,这是我此次爆炸案的评论:
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t1/Military/59861413_0_1.html
: 发信人: jhe123 (jhe), 信区: Military
: 标 题: Re: 广州番禺村委会被炸,伤亡惨重
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Mar 22 10:04:19 2021, 美东)
: 呵呵,谁再说美国2A没用的?搞炸药毕竟不容易,其次大部分人不一定会用炸药。有2A
: 的话,每个人都可能掏枪干掉政府官员。
: 不管在中国还是美国,平民持有和官员同归于尽的手段和装备都应该是天赋人权。
: at
: the

l
luminb

It doesn’t take a science major to know that stats and names of subjects
are different portion of data. I rest my case.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: As a major in science, stats is only a portion of data. Anyway, what is
: your logic behind me killing my ID when you provide "stats" but you HAVE
NOT
: killed your ID when I HAVE provided "data"? Though I am old, I still
want
: to learn. You can be my "one logic teacher".

j
jhe123

刀显然没枪好用。另外为啥要提高平民造反的难度?造反难度越低,造反门槛也越低,相应的政府能够作恶而不遭遇反抗的作恶程度也越低,对大家都是好事。

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: If you just want to kill some corrupted officials, knives can do the job
too
: . Guns are more for easily killing more than one, but knives are good
: enough for ambushing one or two. Plus, considering the benefit and
: tradeoffs, guns have been a real bad idea to serve this purpose.
: 论:
: 2A

FortyNiner

Don't leave please. It's a cozy weekend.

【 在 luminb (Gooder) 的大作中提到: 】
: It doesn’t take a science major to know that stats and names of subjects : are different portion of data. I rest my case.
: NOT
: want

FortyNiner

In front of fighter jets, nukes, and all the other advanced weaponry, guns
are just a joke for "平民造反". They can only serve as a tool to
assassinate some officials. Guns are in an embarrassing situation, they are too "waek" against government yet too strong/lethal for civilians. They
are not really serving their purpose.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: 刀显然没枪好用。另外为啥要提高平民造反的难度?造反难度越低,造反门槛也越低,
: 相应的政府能够作恶而不遭遇反抗的作恶程度也越低,对大家都是好事。
: too

l
luminb

I am here to expose idiots. Today my job is well done.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Don't leave please. It's a cozy weekend.

FortyNiner

Yeah, you have exposed yourself. So you are done today. That I agree with you. Have a good weekend. No, you will be back. Tic tok, tic tok, ...

【 在 luminb (Gooder) 的大作中提到: 】
: I am here to expose idiots. Today my job is well done.

j
jhe123

任何政策都是要人去执行的,底层执行的人有生命危险或者隔三岔五被干掉,这个政策就会大打折扣甚至无法执行。另外就算要和政府全面开战,只有枪虽然处于极为不利的地位,但仍然可以有所作为。美军入侵后,阿富汗抵抗力量基本也就是些轻武器,但这么多年了依然在和美军战斗。

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: In front of fighter jets, nukes, and all the other advanced weaponry, guns
: are just a joke for "平民造反". They can only serve as a tool to
: assassinate some officials. Guns are in an embarrassing situation, they
are
: too "waek" against government yet too strong/lethal for civilians. They : are not really serving their purpose.

HALO3

hehe,有枪也不会跳出来对射,对大部分人来说,逃命还是第一要紧

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/19/3-million-americans-carry-loaded-handguns-with-them-every-single-day-study-finds/
: 2017年的调查发现,全美国只有3百万人是天天带枪,外加另外6百万人至少一个月带一
: 次,但带枪的人高比例集中于20来岁南方州的保守派中。就算平均分布,也不过100个
: 里面一个肯定带枪的,大部分mass shooting又发生在Gun Free Zone, 所以单单从概率
: 上讲,有枪好人制止mass shooting就是极为罕见的事情。尤其是当牵涉到枪击人群少
: 于100时,理论上很可能一个带枪的人都没有。
: 所以,因为带枪的人实在太少,所以用枪制止mass shooting的成功案例也不会多。

j
jhe123

碰上mass shooting的应对是按跑-躲-斗的原则进行,跑不掉躲不过而不得不拼命时,
有枪没枪区别就大了。

【 在 HALO3 (master chief) 的大作中提到: 】
: hehe,有枪也不会跳出来对射,对大部分人来说,逃命还是第一要紧

FortyNiner

Afghanistan people don't just have light weapons, they have at least AKs.
They also have RPGs. They have heavy machine guns. These are all banned in teh US.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: 任何政策都是要人去执行的,底层执行的人有生命危险或者隔三岔五被干掉,这个政策
: 就会大打折扣甚至无法执行。另外就算要和政府全面开战,只有枪虽然处于极为不利的
: 地位,但仍然可以有所作为。美军入侵后,阿富汗抵抗力量基本也就是些轻武器,但这
: 么多年了依然在和美军战斗。
: are

FortyNiner

Stats have shown the victims have far outnumbered the ones saved.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: 碰上mass shooting的应对是按跑-躲-斗的原则进行,跑不掉躲不过而不得不拼命时,
: 有枪没枪区别就大了。

j
jhe123

这些都属于轻武器,不会造成本质区别。而且半自动的AR要改全自动也不是难事,和平时期没人愿意因为改装去坐十年牢,都要造反了的话这就不是个事了。

【 在 FortyNiner(Niner) 的大作中提到: 】

: Afghanistan people don't just have light weapons, they have at least
AKs.

: They also have RPGs. They have heavy machine guns. These are all
banned in

: teh US.

j
jhe123

数据也表明Mass shooting的时候有带枪公民在场的可能性极低,在禁枪区发生枪击案
时更是没有守法公民能带枪。所以死的人多于被救的人完全不奇怪。

【 在 FortyNiner(Niner) 的大作中提到: 】

: Stats have shown the victims have far outnumbered the ones saved.

FortyNiner

Not just mass shootings. Victims of all gun violence far outnumber the ones saved by gun-owner civilians. I don't bother checking the stats, but I
believe at least at 10:1 ratio, even 100:1.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: 数据也表明Mass shooting的时候有带枪公民在场的可能性极低,在禁枪区发生枪击案
: 时更是没有守法公民能带枪。所以死的人多于被救的人完全不奇怪。
:
: Stats have shown the victims have far outnumbered the ones saved.
:

FortyNiner

Yeah, they are still light weapons compared to jets, tanks, missiles, nukes and other advanced weapons. Even they are banned in the US, so the even "
lighter" firearms allowed in the US are just a joke for 造反. It's only an illusion that guns provide a tool for citizens to check the government.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: 这些都属于轻武器,不会造成本质区别。而且半自动的AR要改全自动也不是难事,和平
: 时期没人愿意因为改装去坐十年牢,都要造反了的话这就不是个事了。
:
: Afghanistan people don't just have light weapons, they have at least
: AKs.
:
: They also have RPGs. They have heavy machine guns. These are all
: banned in
:
: teh US.
:

j
jhe123

数据恰恰和你凭感觉认为的相反。每年被枪拯救的人远远超过被枪害死的人。

【 在 FortyNiner(Niner) 的大作中提到: 】

: Not just mass shootings. Victims of all gun violence far outnumber
the ones

: saved by gun-owner civilians. I don't bother checking the stats, but I

: believe at least at 10:1 ratio, even 100:1.

j
jhe123

邦迪农场已经充分证明你的推论是错误的。

【 在 FortyNiner(Niner) 的大作中提到: 】

: Yeah, they are still light weapons compared to jets, tanks, missiles, nukes

: and other advanced weapons. Even they are banned in the US, so the
even "

: lighter" firearms allowed in the US are just a joke for 造反. It's
only an

: illusion that guns provide a tool for citizens to check the government.

noles

Georgia is a blue state. It voted Biden and two Dem senators last year.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Some are not blue states. For example, Georgia, Fl, and TX. Columbine
: shooting took place when CO was having a GOP governor. Plus, blue states : does not mean people cannot carry concealed guns. For example, you can
: carry concealed in CA as long as you get license.
:

SQL

If California doesn't have so many RINOs like you
it might not be a shit hole like it is now.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: And the RINO voters elected the RINO governor? The RINO voters passed the
: gun laws? Right, any GOPs other GOPs don't like, just label them RINOs. : Problem solved! Really?

FortyNiner

I am not a RINO. I am independent, just lean toward GOP. You still refuse to accept that there are way more Dems than Repubs in Cal. You would rather believe Dems win big over Repubs in Cal simply because of illegal votes the last twenty or thirty years?

【 在 SQL (月光下的房黑) 的大作中提到: 】
: If California doesn't have so many RINOs like you
: it might not be a shit hole like it is now.

FortyNiner

Convince me with stats. I cannot find any except some from gun-advocate
groups. Give me some researches from FBI or neutral third-party, or
something like that.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: 数据恰恰和你凭感觉认为的相反。每年被枪拯救的人远远超过被枪害死的人。
:
: Not just mass shootings. Victims of all gun violence far outnumber : the ones
:
: saved by gun-owner civilians. I don't bother checking the stats,
but
: I
:
: believe at least at 10:1 ratio, even 100:1.
:

FortyNiner

But I mostly vote for GOPs the last twenty years, you are saying GOPs have
better chance to win without my vote that went to them? Who taught you your math? The only Dem that I consistently voted for is Judy Chu, though I do not agree with her on most issues. I vote for her simply because she is
Chinese and might voice my concerns, though it might be just wishful
thinking.

【 在 SQL (月光下的房黑) 的大作中提到: 】
: If California doesn't have so many RINOs like you
: it might not be a shit hole like it is now.

FortyNiner

Don't know what 邦迪农场 is. Will google it.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: 邦迪农场已经充分证明你的推论是错误的。
:
: Yeah, they are still light weapons compared to jets, tanks, missiles,
: nukes
:
: and other advanced weapons. Even they are banned in the US, so the : even "
:
: lighter" firearms allowed in the US are just a joke for 造反. It's : only an
:
: illusion that guns provide a tool for citizens to check the
government.
:

FortyNiner

It voted for Biden just last Nov, and voted out the two Repub senators just this Jan. All the state laws in effect now are made before these times.
Plus, Georgia still has a GOP governor. Also, GOP still has strong hold in the state legislature. So, GOPs are mostly responsible for the laws, gun
laws included, in the state of Georgia.

【 在 noles (NoMorNoLes) 的大作中提到: 】
: Georgia is a blue state. It voted Biden and two Dem senators last year.

FortyNiner

Did a little wiki background check on the Bundy Standoff. Seems to me that they could achieve the same goal by using knives. Do you really think they could really fight the government? The government just did not want them to be killed, like in the Waco case, and the government wanted to de-escalate the situation. Because of this intention of the government, the result
would be the same if they armed themselves with just machetes. If the
government really wanted to crush them, they could all have ended up dead,
without any casualty on the Fed's side. So it was not much about guns, it was about your WILL.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: 邦迪农场已经充分证明你的推论是错误的。
:
: Yeah, they are still light weapons compared to jets, tanks, missiles,
: nukes
:
: and other advanced weapons. Even they are banned in the US, so the : even "
:
: lighter" firearms allowed in the US are just a joke for 造反. It's : only an
:
: illusion that guns provide a tool for citizens to check the
government.
:

r
rihai

jhe123已经给你解释过了,
二修就是为了杀欺压你的狗官
为这个,只能接受罪犯和精神病白疮也拥枪的后果了
盹盹盹

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Convince me with stats. I cannot find any except some from gun-advocate
: groups. Give me some researches from FBI or neutral third-party, or
: something like that.
: but

r
rihai


熟食
盹盹盹

【 在 rihai (海桑虎桑柱桑等倭杂之克星) 的大作中提到: 】
: 标 题: Re: Where are the good guys with guns?
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Mar 28 12:16:45 2021, 美东)
:
: jhe123已经给你解释过了,
: 二修就是为了杀欺压你的狗官
: 为这个,只能接受罪犯和精神病白疮也拥枪的后果了
: 盹盹盹
:
:
:
: 【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Convince me with stats. I cannot find any except some from gun-advocate
: : groups. Give me some researches from FBI or neutral third-party, or
: : something like that.
: : but
:
:
:
: --
:
FortyNiner

But how many 狗官s have been killed by good guys with guns? We already have hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost to gun violence over the years
. Isn't this price too high?

【 在 rihai (海桑虎桑柱桑等倭杂之克星) 的大作中提到: 】
: jhe123已经给你解释过了,
: 二修就是为了杀欺压你的狗官
: 为这个,只能接受罪犯和精神病白疮也拥枪的后果了
: 盹盹盹

r
rihai

这是你的思维,不是鸦片国国人的思维
鸦片国人觉得保留杀死狗官的能力是必须的
盹盹盹

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: 标 题: Re: Where are the good guys with guns?
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Mar 28 12:23:26 2021, 美东)
:
: But how many 狗官s have been killed by good guys with guns? We already
have
: hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost to gun violence over the
years
: . Isn't this price too high?
:
:
: 【 在 rihai (海桑虎桑柱桑等倭杂之克星) 的大作中提到: 】
: : jhe123已经给你解释过了,
: : 二修就是为了杀欺压你的狗官
: : 为这个,只能接受罪犯和精神病白疮也拥枪的后果了
: : 盹盹盹
:
:
:
: --
r
rihai

不过无仇无怨大屠杀基本都是白疮
lol

【 在 rihai (海桑虎桑柱桑等倭杂之克星) 的大作中提到: 】
: 标 题: Re: Where are the good guys with guns?
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Mar 28 12:24:58 2021, 美东)
:
: 这是你的思维,不是鸦片国国人的思维
: 鸦片国人觉得保留杀死狗官的能力是必须的
: 盹盹盹
:
:
: 【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 标 题: Re: Where are the good guys with guns?
: : 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Mar 28 12:23:26 2021, 美东)
: :
: : But how many 狗官s have been killed by good guys with guns? We already : have
: : hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost to gun violence over the
: years
: : . Isn't this price too high?
: :
: :
: : 【 在 rihai (海桑虎桑柱桑等倭杂之克星) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : jhe123已经给你解释过了,
: : : 二修就是为了杀欺压你的狗官
: : : 为这个,只能接受罪犯和精神病白疮也拥枪的后果了
: : : 盹盹盹
: :
: :
: :
: : --
FortyNiner

Maybe, just like the 550k lives lost to covid is nothing compared to the
sacred rights to walk freely without masks and social distancing.

【 在 rihai (海桑虎桑柱桑等倭杂之克星) 的大作中提到: 】
: 这是你的思维,不是鸦片国国人的思维
: 鸦片国人觉得保留杀死狗官的能力是必须的
: 盹盹盹
: have
: years

r
rihai

差不多吧
不过二修是每个州的简单多数都拥护的
不顾老人死活不带口罩出去狼,这是shithole红州的特色
lol

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: 标 题: Re: Where are the good guys with guns?
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Mar 28 12:30:10 2021, 美东)
:
: Maybe, just like the 550k lives lost to covid is nothing compared to the
: sacred rights to walk freely without masks and social distancing.
:
: 【 在 rihai (海桑虎桑柱桑等倭杂之克星) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 这是你的思维,不是鸦片国国人的思维
: : 鸦片国人觉得保留杀死狗官的能力是必须的
: : 盹盹盹
: : have
: : years
:
:
:
: --
yongjiang

用枪来制止突发的暴力枪击事件是个美好的愿望。很难在现实中实现。因为枪手多数有备而来,有时候还穿了防弹衣。一般人即便戴着上膛的手枪,也未必在对射中有优势。禁枪是唯一的办法,但是在美国,戴个口罩都弄不了。所以永远无解
【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: 3/17 Georgia, then Boulder, then Chicago and Philadelphia yesterday, then : Virginia Beach today(though 3 separate shootings, but at least one is
: considered as a mass shooting). At least five mass shootings in just 11
: days. Which one was stopped by a good civilian with a gun?

r
rihai


问题在于你禁不了罪犯的枪

稍微好一点的办法是不能携枪离开住处, 否则是10年监禁以上的重罪
盹盹盹

【 在 yongjiang () 的大作中提到: 】
: 用枪来制止突发的暴力枪击事件是个美好的愿望。很难在现实中实现。因为枪手多数有
: 备而来,有时候还穿了防弹衣。一般人即便戴着上膛的手枪,也未必在对射中有优势。
: 禁枪是唯一的办法,但是在美国,戴个口罩都弄不了。所以永远无解

j
jhe123
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/USANews/34518747.html

你要真是想认真谈这个问题,就把上面这文章不带偏见的读一遍,里面各种数据都有。

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Convince me with stats. I cannot find any except some from gun-advocate
: groups. Give me some researches from FBI or neutral third-party, or
: something like that.
: but

j
jhe123

拜托你不要想当然的“推论”。拿刀示威还不如赤手空拳示威,赤手空拳至少还是和平抗议,拿刀的话给了官方武力镇压的理由,但刀面对枪一点屁用没有。邦迪农场对峙现场,农民武力远远超过被包围的政府武力,真要打起来被消灭的只能是官差。

当然你说政府完全可以增兵,但事情闹大后,那些挑起事端的官员政客就会面临极大政治风险,而且政府增兵没准激起更多反抗。就像我前面说的,造反越容易,造反门槛越低,官员能作恶的程度就越低。中国平民历次造反都是活不下去了才不得不反,而邦迪农场是为了放牧权,当年华盛顿他们是为了茶叶税,这在中国就根本不是个事儿,因为这点事儿就造反,呵呵,按中国标准,华盛顿邦迪他们全是他妈的“刁民”。

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Did a little wiki background check on the Bundy Standoff. Seems to me
that
: they could achieve the same goal by using knives. Do you really think
they
: could really fight the government? The government just did not want them to
: be killed, like in the Waco case, and the government wanted to de-
escalate
: the situation. Because of this intention of the government, the result
: would be the same if they armed themselves with just machetes. If the
: government really wanted to crush them, they could all have ended up dead,
: without any casualty on the Fed's side. So it was not much about guns,
it
: was about your WILL.
: ,
: ...................

D
DreamTiger


连警察都死了,就更别指望好市民了,面对AR,警察手里那把枪不够看啊。
看来得指望好市民天天背着AR出门了。

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: 3/17 Georgia, then Boulder, then Chicago and Philadelphia yesterday, then : Virginia Beach today(though 3 separate shootings, but at least one is
: considered as a mass shooting). At least five mass shootings in just 11
: days. Which one was stopped by a good civilian with a gun?

f
fishingarden

棉花糖烂闹钟这回对了,军队允许持枪的地方的确没大规模屠杀。上次军队基地大屠杀就是发生在禁枪场所。

【 在 DreamTiger (钟爱你一生) 的大作中提到: 】
: 连警察都死了,就更别指望好市民了,面对AR,警察手里那把枪不够看啊。
: 看来得指望好市民天天背着AR出门了。

FortyNiner

Again, that was only because the government didn't want to escalate the
situation and have more civilians killed. Agree with you that "但刀面对枪一点屁用没有", the same applies to "Guns in civilians hands are of no use to
missiles and tanks." The same reason why Bundy's guns were useful also
would make machetes useful.

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: 拜托你不要想当然的“推论”。拿刀示威还不如赤手空拳示威,赤手空拳至少还是和平
: 抗议,拿刀的话给了官方武力镇压的理由,但刀面对枪一点屁用没有。邦迪农场对峙现
: 场,农民武力远远超过被包围的政府武力,真要打起来被消灭的只能是官差。
: 当然你说政府完全可以增兵,但事情闹大后,那些挑起事端的官员政客就会面临极大政
: 治风险,而且政府增兵没准激起更多反抗。就像我前面说的,造反越容易,造反门槛越
: 低,官员能作恶的程度就越低。中国平民历次造反都是活不下去了才不得不反,而邦迪
: 农场是为了放牧权,当年华盛顿他们是为了茶叶税,这在中国就根本不是个事儿,因为
: 这点事儿就造反,呵呵,按中国标准,华盛顿邦迪他们全是他妈的“刁民”。
: that
: they
: ...................

FortyNiner

Gun control is one of the topics almost all first-year college students have written as their research paper for their composition class. I did mine
more than twenty years ago. It was a paper about 15 pages long, I did a lot of research and used a lot of citations too. Believe me, I have spent at
least 100 hours researching and writing the paper. I have seen a lot more
data, though outdated now, than you have seen. My conclusion at that time
was, far more lives were lost to guns in the US than saved by guns. Ask
your colleagues about their research paper they wrote for their English
class at first year college. They will tell you it is pain in the rear end for most people, and probably it is the only thing they remember about that course. Anyway, millions of students have done the same thing year
after year, and the funny thing is, nobody can convince anyone else. Do
you expect the post in the link is the best among the millions and that it
is a game changer?

【 在 jhe123 (jhe) 的大作中提到: 】
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/USANews/34518747.html
: 你要真是想认真谈这个问题,就把上面这文章不带偏见的读一遍,里面各种数据都有。