CDC发布口罩有效性的统计

dime
楼主 (未名空间)

1%-3%?LOL
口罩党有没有失望?
叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science

The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates adopted last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100 days of adoption.

When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
increase in coronavirus-related deaths within 100 days of the lifting of
those rules, the study said.
r
rdfirdfi

Please, please

Do not mix up the effectiveness of "mandating masks" and "wearing a mask".

I know many people are doing this intentionally or unintentionally.

Mandating mask as a public policy is a failed policy.

Wearing a surgical mask properly can reduce the dose of viral intake, which make covid symptom lighter, and somewhat prevent the transmission of flu.
r
rdfirdfi

Talking about science/anti-science.

I have to say...

FAUCI MUST BE HANGED!

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1%-3%?LOL
: 口罩党有没有失望?
: 叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
: 可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
: 但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science
: The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates
adopted
: last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100
days
: of adoption.
: When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
: dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
: ...................

desertking

室外要看情况 室外的感染几率非常小 但是室内是很有必要的

j
jhe123

当初室外要求戴口罩的一个前提是在和他人无法保持6英尺距离时才要戴。这个有啥不
对的?另外这个1-3%的变化实际上并不是基于总人口的,有没有口罩令,尤其是不强制执行的情况下,会自觉戴的人总会戴,不戴的还是不戴,疮扑街的拉力上,还有后来挺疮的游行几乎都没人戴。这个1-3%的变化是由那些有口罩令就戴,没口罩令就不戴的人造成的。这部分人有多少我不知道,但口罩的有效性绝对比现在看到的1-3%的数据要高。

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1%-3%?LOL
: 口罩党有没有失望?
: 叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
: 可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
: 但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science
: The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates
adopted
: last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100
days
: of adoption.
: When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
: dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
: ...................

dime

我同意,需要区分mandate masks和wear masks
但在实际操作里,mandate masks vs. not mandate masks的大规模社会行为
可能是最接近wear vs not wear masks对于population health的影响了吧

这也是为啥,至今为止也只有理论上的说法
却没有一个真正意义上的社会实验
我觉着就是因为那种实验基本没法做

so the next best thing is to look at "mandate masks" vs. "not mandate masks"我觉着这个结果当然不是完美的实验,但还是很有考虑价值的

最起码,就美帝社会而言
如果mandate masks只能比not mandate masks的社区有1%-3%的影响的话
是否仍然值得,就可以讨论一下

完美的世界里,所有的gem virus都是可以避免的

S
SagitarVW

又见川粉秀下限
那你别戴呗
fiddler

这个是不同的概念。故意混淆在一块儿是没有意义的。美国的病例至今也是居高不下,死亡人数超500k。谁去为这些人的死亡负责?呼吁群众戴口罩,做好防护,这不是在限制你的人身自由,而是在帮助大多数人渡过难关,帮弱势群体生存下来,让生活尽快回到正常。

拎不清这么基本的问题,只能说明以下两点:
1. 愚蠢透顶
2. 存心使坏

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1%-3%?LOL
: 口罩党有没有失望?
: 叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
: 可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
: 但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science
: The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates
adopted
: last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100
days
: of adoption.
: When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
: dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
: ...................

dime

戴口罩消灭了流感
但对新管爆发只有1-3%的效果

智商高的设计个好的实验
来证明戴口罩对新管也有70-80%的效果啊

我open minded

V123

说实话,作为scientist起家的, 现在读CDC的玩意儿,即使不立马点击右上角,也应
该以批判的眼光更加严格的审视这些东西

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1%-3%?LOL
: 口罩党有没有失望?
: 叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
: 可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
: 但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science
: The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates
adopted
: last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100
days
: of adoption.
: When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
: dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
: ...................

I
Ignius
https://youtu.be/3GndKYJ4uBI


https://youtu.be/NnVX3F5zkS0


【 在 dime(dime) 的大作中提到: 】

: 戴口罩消灭了流感

: 但对新管爆发只有1-3%的效果

: 智商高的设计个好的实验

: 来证明戴口罩对新管也有70-80%的效果啊

: 我open minded

I
Ignius

要求室外带口罩是在人多没法保持6 feet距离的时候。川粉为啥总是这么反智?连个口罩的事都能瞎jb胡搅蛮缠的。

dime

CDC就算啥也不懂,能给些数据让大家自己分析一下也成啊

过去瞎折腾了1年
covid暴涨爆落几次
但是flu基本绝迹

就这个数据点看,whatever we did in the past year
has very little effect on covid, but killed flu

你可以说R值更高,等等.
但是,同样手段得到的不同效果,
却不是简单的3倍5倍R值的区别
这就说明手段根本就没啥效果
这个从CDC自己比较的mandate masks vs. not mandate masks
的pop health数据就能看出来

I
Ignius

你自称做数据的,连这个都搞不清?你比较flu有以往不带口罩时的数据。新冠有吗?

【 在 dime(dime) 的大作中提到: 】

: CDC就算啥也不懂,能给些数据让大家自己分析一下也成啊

: 过去瞎折腾了1年

: covid暴涨爆落几次

: 但是flu基本绝迹

: 就这个数据点看,whatever we did in the past year

: has very little effect on covid, but killed flu

: 你可以说R值更高,等等.

: 但是,同样手段得到的不同效果,

: 却不是简单的3倍5倍R值的区别

: 这就说明手段根本就没啥效果
: ...................

dime

哪些州一直没有mask mandate的?
那些国家一直没有戴mask的?

flu数据每年都有https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm


【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你自称做数据的,连这个都搞不清?你比较flu有以往不带口罩时的数据。新冠有吗?
:
: CDC就算啥也不懂,能给些数据让大家自己分析一下也成啊
:
: 过去瞎折腾了1年
:
: covid暴涨爆落几次
:
: 但是flu基本绝迹
:
: 就这个数据点看,whatever we did in the past year
:
: has very little effect on covid, but killed flu
:
: 你可以说R值更高,等等.
:
: 但是,同样手段得到的不同效果,
:
: 却不是简单的3倍5倍R值的区别
: ...................

nfnmd

你觉得口水沫子到室外就不飞了?

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1%-3%?LOL
: 口罩党有没有失望?
: 叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
: 可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
: 但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science
:
:
: The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates
adopted
: last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100
days
: of adoption.
:
: When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
: dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
: increase in coronavirus-related deaths within 100 days of the lifting of
: those rules, the study said.
S
SagitarVW

你要知道没有口罩强制得州也不见得每个人都是你们川粉这种智障。
就算是洪州也不见得每个投了川毒得都是不戴口罩得勇士

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 哪些州一直没有mask mandate的?
: 那些国家一直没有戴mask的?
: flu数据每年都有
: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
: https://i.ibb.co/qJ2h28g/flukids.jpg

comeandgo


【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1%-3%?LOL
: 口罩党有没有失望?
: 叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
: 可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
: 但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science
: The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates
adopted
: last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100
days
: of adoption.
: When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
: dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
: ...................

s
stud2

有任何地方强制室外戴口罩了吗?我在加州都没听说过。

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1%-3%?LOL
: 口罩党有没有失望?
: 叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
: 可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
: 但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science
: The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates
adopted
: last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100
days
: of adoption.
: When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
: dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
: ...................

FortyNiner

This webMD either is too stupid to interpret CDC's report correctly or
intentionally distorts it. The CDC report says "Mask mandates were
associated with a 0.7 percentage point decrease (p = 0.03) in daily COVID-19 death growth rates 1–20 days after implementation..." In the same report, it also says "The daily growth rate was defined as the difference between
the natural log of cumulative cases or deaths on a given day and the natural log of cumulative cases or deaths on the previous day, multiplied by 100." Just to give you a perspective. If there were 10,000 cumulative deaths
yesterday, and 10,100 the today, the daily death growth rate is 0.995%. An 0.7 percentage point increase is 1.695%, and that corresponds to a
cumulative deaths of 10,171 deaths today. A 0.7 percentage point increase
in daily growth rate means 70% (from 100 to 170) more new deaths today!! Do the math yourself if you don't believe me. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm

m
mitbbs2013

假设只有1-3%的人因为mandate改变戴口罩习惯的话,口罩就是100%有效了。

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1%-3%?LOL
: 口罩党有没有失望?
: 叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
: 可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
: 但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science
: The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates
adopted
: last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100
days
: of adoption.
: When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
: dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
: ...................

iminosugar

真不知道还在争论什么?

mandate口罩你到底失去了什么?

如果相信2%是真,这2%难道不是数吗?

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: CDC就算啥也不懂,能给些数据让大家自己分析一下也成啊
: 过去瞎折腾了1年
: covid暴涨爆落几次
: 但是flu基本绝迹
: 就这个数据点看,whatever we did in the past year
: has very little effect on covid, but killed flu
: 你可以说R值更高,等等.
: 但是,同样手段得到的不同效果,
: 却不是简单的3倍5倍R值的区别
: 这就说明手段根本就没啥效果
: ...................

t
toco

呵呵,为什么不考虑洗手对阻止新冠传播的作用?美国人洗手是很马虎的,在保持社交距离的情况下,手接触引起的传播就很重要了。有致病性的流感病毒在体外存活的时间很短,而新冠病毒长得多

j
jumbo

口罩确实没大用,带不带没差别,除非天天脸对脸说话作为工作内容的
antee

口罩消灭流感,怎么可能对传播路径类似的新冠无效?都是病毒,飞沫传染。流感R0 2.x,能把这个压下去对R0 3.x就能降个大半下来
实在搞不懂对口罩的抗拒心理,尼玛这是用一点点不便换很多人命的事,一帮把人性挂嘴边的这嘴脸也是醉了

【 在 dime(dime) 的大作中提到: 】

: 戴口罩消灭了流感

: 但对新管爆发只有1-3%的效果

: 智商高的设计个好的实验

: 来证明戴口罩对新管也有70-80%的效果啊

: 我open minded

ratzinger

难说,老美反正也不屌这个禁令,常常看到老美戴口罩鼻子露着
c
canhelp2007

鉴定完毕,楼主是川粉

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1%-3%?LOL
: 口罩党有没有失望?
: 叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
: 可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
: 但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science
: The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates
adopted
: last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100
days
: of adoption.
: When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
: dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
: ...................

HALO3

又是一个非蠢即坏的典型

这个数字受两个因素的影响:在强制口罩政策要求下多出来的戴口罩的百分比A,和戴
口罩的有效性B
极端情况下,有效性是100%,那么政策只导致了2%的原来不愿带口罩的人带上了口罩;另一种情况是,原来一个人都不带,强制政策让100%的人都带了,那么才可以得出口罩有效性是2%。
实际情况肯定是这两个情况的中间,但是考虑到美国存在大量楼主这样的傻逼,百分比A不会太高,所以口罩有效性也不会太低。
退一万步,即使只有2%的有效性,我也选择带上。所以STFU

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1%-3%?LOL
: 口罩党有没有失望?
: 叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
: 可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
: 但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science
: The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates
adopted
: last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100
days
: of adoption.
: When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
: dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
: ...................

r
rdfirdfi

A LOT OF PEOPLE are wearing masks regardless if it's mandated.

A LOT OF PEOPLE are not wearing masks regardless if it's mandated.

I think you might just change about 10% people's behavior by mandating masks. If that causes 1-3% change, it might mean masks are 10-30% effective.

Not perfect maths. But I hope you got my point.

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我同意,需要区分mandate masks和wear masks
: 但在实际操作里,mandate masks vs. not mandate masks的大规模社会行为
: 可能是最接近wear vs not wear masks对于population health的影响了吧
: 这也是为啥,至今为止也只有理论上的说法
: 却没有一个真正意义上的社会实验
: 我觉着就是因为那种实验基本没法做
: so the next best thing is to look at "mandate masks" vs. "not mandate
masks"
: 我觉着这个结果当然不是完美的实验,但还是很有考虑价值的
: 最起码,就美帝社会而言
: 如果mandate masks只能比not mandate masks的社区有1%-3%的影响的话
: ...................

r
rdfirdfi

"mandate口罩你到底失去了什么?"

Mandating things that are "good" for you draws a spiral to "1984" world.
Similar logic, maybe we should mandate everyone to eat healthy food in order to reduce hospitalization for diabetes.

This is a value call. My threshold for this sort of governmental order is 5% of overall population. If mandating masks saves 5% (17.5 million) of
American lives, I agree the mandate.

【 在 iminosugar (伪糖) 的大作中提到: 】
: 真不知道还在争论什么?
: mandate口罩你到底失去了什么?
: 如果相信2%是真,这2%难道不是数吗?

iminosugar

简单地说,极端主义者就是不能就事论事、或者失去了就事论事的能力。

这次武汉肺炎大流行是百年一遇的事,如果全国强制戴口罩,那也是百年一遇的事。将这种低概率事件中可能采取的极端措施极端地泛化,是极端主义。

这就好比那些反堕胎的人士。反36周堕胎当然是对的。但是他们打着pro-life的名号,极端泛化,连乱伦、强奸所致
的怀孕都禁止流产。

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: "mandate口罩你到底失去了什么?"
: Mandating things that are "good" for you draws a spiral to "1984" world.
: Similar logic, maybe we should mandate everyone to eat healthy food in
order
: to reduce hospitalization for diabetes.
: This is a value call. My threshold for this sort of governmental order is 5%
: of overall population. If mandating masks saves 5% (17.5 million) of
: American lives, I agree the mandate.

r
rdfirdfi

Well, pro-life/pro-choice is a different complicated issue.

As I said, I would support mask-mandating if it can save 17.5 million of
American people.

You would agree, there would always be a threshold of "how many people saved" for mandating mask to be good, right? You would agree we won't mandate
mask if only <50k people="" dies="" from="" covid="" in="" US="" right="">
【 在 iminosugar (伪糖) 的大作中提到: 】
: 简单地说,极端主义者就是不能就事论事、或者失去了就事论事的能力。
: 这次武汉肺炎大流行是百年一遇的事,如果全国强制戴口罩,那也是百年一遇的事。将
: 这种低概率事件中可能采取的极端措施极端地泛化,是极端主义。
: 这就好比那些反堕胎的人士。反36周堕胎当然是对的。但是他们打着pro-life的名号,
: 极端泛化,连乱伦、强奸所致
: 的怀孕都禁止流产。
: order
: 5%

iminosugar

17.5 million的美国人,就是3.5亿地球人。口气太大了。

还是那句话:mask mandate你失去了什么?自由还是美丽?

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Well, pro-life/pro-choice is a different complicated issue.
: As I said, I would support mask-mandating if it can save 17.5 million of
: American people.
: You would agree, there would always be a threshold of "how many people
saved
: " for mandating mask to be good, right? You would agree we won't mandate
: mask if only <50k people="" dies="" from="" covid="" in="" US="" right="">

dime

如果mandate只能改变10%人口的习惯
结果导致拯救了1%-3%的生命
总有效率算10-30%
这个说法我可以接受

叔早说过
叔本人不抵抗戴口罩
叔在儿童医院,每年看到流感死掉的可怜娃
心疼

叔只是觉着这个戴口罩能把流感灭绝,
却对新管只能有10-30%的防御有效率

这个需要有科学探索精神的人去好好研究一下
是否大家都只是人云亦云
忽略了新管和流感的传播方式很可能大不相同?
如果真是那样,多少人白死在人云亦云这种态度上?

FortyNiner

Nobody says I was wrong? Do you still think masks are pretty much useless
against covid?

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
This webMD either is too stupid to interpret CDC's report correctly or
intentionally distorts it. The CDC report says "Mask mandates were
associated with a 0.7 percentage point decrease (p = 0.03) in daily COVID-19death growth rates 1–20 days after implementation..." In the same report,
it also says "The daily growth rate was defined as the difference between
the natural log of cumulative cases or deaths on a given day and the naturallog of cumulative cases or deaths on the previous day, multiplied by 100."
Just to give you a perspective. If there were 10,000 cumulative deaths
yesterday, and 10,100 the today, the daily death growth rate is 0.995%. An
0.7 percentage point increase is 1.695%, and that corresponds to a
cumulative deaths of 10,171 deaths today. A 0.7 percentage point increase
in daily growth rate means 70% (from 100 to 170) more new deaths today!! Dothe math yourself if you don't believe me.https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm

r
rdfirdfi

What do you lose if you don't mandate mask?

I'm totally Ok with loss of 0.35 bn earthlings.

【 在 iminosugar (伪糖) 的大作中提到: 】
: 17.5 million的美国人,就是3.5亿地球人。口气太大了。
: 还是那句话:mask mandate你失去了什么?自由还是美丽?
: saved

FortyNiner

You can say this flippantly and callously probably because your parents are not living in the US.
(I got banned for 14 days once on this board for a statement almost exactly like this for "attack on family members" because I "might be wrong for
assuming someone's parents not in the US". Hell, ban me if you want.)

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: What do you lose if you don't mandate mask?
: I'm totally Ok with loss of 0.35 bn earthlings.

r
rdfirdfi

Wearing mask cannot eradicate covid. Nothing can eradicate covid.

But wearing mask can slow down spreading of covid, and also alleviate
symptoms for the wearer. I think data supports this.

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 如果mandate只能改变10%人口的习惯
: 结果导致拯救了1%-3%的生命
: 总有效率算10-30%
: 这个说法我可以接受
: 叔早说过
: 叔本人不抵抗戴口罩
: 叔在儿童医院,每年看到流感死掉的可怜娃
: 心疼
: 叔只是觉着这个戴口罩能把流感灭绝,
: 却对新管只能有10-30%的防御有效率
: ...................

FortyNiner

Agree with you, except that I don't know that it can also "alleviate
symptoms for the wearer".

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Wearing mask cannot eradicate covid. Nothing can eradicate covid.
: But wearing mask can slow down spreading of covid, and also alleviate
: symptoms for the wearer. I think data supports this.

r
rdfirdfi

If my parents live in the US, I will for sure let them stay at home the
whole time, and deliver food for them until they are fully vaccinated.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: You can say this flippantly and callously probably because your parents
are
: not living in the US.
: (I got banned for 14 days once on this board for a statement almost
exactly
: like this for "attack on family members" because I "might be wrong for
: assuming someone's parents not in the US". Hell, ban me if you want.)

r
rdfirdfi

Check out Monica Gandhi.

Mask wearing can reduce the initial dose of viral load. For covid, it's
linked to reduction of the severity of the disease.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Agree with you, except that I don't know that it can also "alleviate
: symptoms for the wearer".

iminosugar

OK. I am totally okay with you are “totally Ok with loss of 0.35 bn
earthlings”, as long as I am not among the loss.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: What do you lose if you don't mandate mask?
: I'm totally Ok with loss of 0.35 bn earthlings.

FortyNiner

That certainly can minimize the chance of infection, but there is still some risk. Also, many elderly are living in assisted living facilities, their
risk is still pretty high.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: If my parents live in the US, I will for sure let them stay at home the
: whole time, and deliver food for them until they are fully vaccinated.
: are
: exactly

r
rdfirdfi

For Covid specifically, if you are younger than 55, have no underlying
health conditions, your chance of dying from it is less than 0.01%

If I were high risk for this disease, I will totally lock myself down in my home until I got vaccinated.

【 在 iminosugar (伪糖) 的大作中提到: 】
: OK. I am totally okay with you are “totally Ok with loss of 0.35 bn
: earthlings”, as long as I am not among the loss.

FortyNiner

20% of the deaths in the US are people of 64 or younger. Most Americans are still working at 64, and most cannot afford skipping work for a year.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: For Covid specifically, if you are younger than 55, have no underlying
: health conditions, your chance of dying from it is less than 0.01%
: If I were high risk for this disease, I will totally lock myself down in
my
: home until I got vaccinated.

r
rdfirdfi

Listen, you are worrying too much for the already minimized risk. This risk definitely does not worth to mandate masks in my opinion.

Mandating mask DOES come with a cost! Why don't we just "strongly suggest"
it, which does not have much cost, and can achieve very similar compliance?

Elderly in assisted living facilities... Do you know why do people ending up there? Do you know why there is a lot of Covid cases?


【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: That certainly can minimize the chance of infection, but there is still
some
: risk. Also, many elderly are living in assisted living facilities, their
: risk is still pretty high.

r
rdfirdfi

Then DIE! THIS IS CAPITALISM SOCIETY! IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE, DIE!

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: 20% of the deaths in the US are people of 64 or younger. Most Americans
are
: still working at 64, and most cannot afford skipping work for a year.
: my

FortyNiner

No matter how they end up in assisted living houses, as a society, we are
obligated to protect them.
530k deaths in the US in one year, you think that is a minimal risk? How
many Americans die in auto accidents each year? About 38,000. Yet we all
have to wear seat belts. How long have you been driving? Has your seat
belt ever helped or saved you over the years? You don't complain about seat belts simply because you take it as a standard since it was already there
when you came to the US.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Listen, you are worrying too much for the already minimized risk. This
risk
: definitely does not worth to mandate masks in my opinion.
: Mandating mask DOES come with a cost! Why don't we just "strongly suggest"
: it, which does not have much cost, and can achieve very similar compliance?
: Elderly in assisted living facilities... Do you know why do people ending up
: there? Do you know why there is a lot of Covid cases?
:
: some

FortyNiner

Zackerberg tells you the same thing, how do you feel?

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Then DIE! THIS IS CAPITALISM SOCIETY! IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE, DIE!
: are

r
rdfirdfi

I don't care?

If one day I can't support myself to live, I will die naturally.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Zackerberg tells you the same thing, how do you feel?

r
rdfirdfi

That the big point.

WE ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO PROTECT OTHERS IN THIS SOCIETY!

I would volunteer to protect others, but it's NOT MY OBLIGATION!

I wear seatbelt to protect myself NO MATTER IF IT'S MANDATED!

SAVING OTHER'S LIVES ARE NOT US CITIZEN'S OBLIGATION!

P.S. You must be also wanting to ban guns, am I right?

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: No matter how they end up in assisted living houses, as a society, we are : obligated to protect them.
: 530k deaths in the US in one year, you think that is a minimal risk? How : many Americans die in auto accidents each year? About 38,000. Yet we all
: have to wear seat belts. How long have you been driving? Has your seat
: belt ever helped or saved you over the years? You don't complain about
seat
: belts simply because you take it as a standard since it was already there
: when you came to the US.
: risk
: up

FortyNiner

Individually each one of us is not obligated to protect others; however,as a society, collectively we are obligated to protect the weak and vulnerable. That is the basic foundation of human society. That is also one thing that distinguish us from most other animals.
Yes, I am for gun bans, not even controls. And I believe it will be
achieved one day. When? When we have paid a price high enough.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: That the big point.
: WE ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO PROTECT OTHERS IN THIS SOCIETY!
: I would volunteer to protect others, but it's NOT MY OBLIGATION!
: I wear seatbelt to protect myself NO MATTER IF IT'S MANDATED!
: SAVING OTHER'S LIVES ARE NOT US CITIZEN'S OBLIGATION!
: P.S. You must be also wanting to ban guns, am I right?
: seat

r
rdfirdfi

I guessed so.

Let me say this: mandating mask is the same direction as banning guns. Which is un-American.

I don't care about your theory of "human society". We live in the US. It's a free country/land. People here are not obligated to protect others. The
government is not obligated to protect individual citizen. The only function the government have should be preventing the formation of an overreaching
government.

If you don't like it, the simplest solution is to move to another country,
like New Zealand or China.

The harder way is to push a change in the constitution, and the basic
underlying culture of the US.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Individually each one of us is not obligated to protect others; however,as a
: society, collectively we are obligated to protect the weak and vulnerable.
: That is the basic foundation of human society. That is also one thing
that
: distinguish us from most other animals.
: Yes, I am for gun bans, not even controls. And I believe it will be
: achieved one day. When? When we have paid a price high enough.
:

FortyNiner

US is not a free country. That are too many things you cannot do free.
Free or not is only comparative. Mandating mask is only one of the
thousands of things that are not free. I can say the same thing to you that if you don't like the way it is, such as EOs on mask mandates, you can move back to China.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: I guessed so.
: Let me say this: mandating mask is the same direction as banning guns.
Which
: is un-American.
: I don't care about your theory of "human society". We live in the US. It's a
: free country/land. People here are not obligated to protect others. The
: government is not obligated to protect individual citizen. The only
function
: the government have should be preventing the formation of an overreaching
: government.
: If you don't like it, the simplest solution is to move to another country,
: like New Zealand or China.
: ...................

r
rdfirdfi

I live in Georgia, a state that NEVER mandated mask. I'm happy to live here.

There is NO federal mask mandate. My country is NOT mandating mask.

Since I don't live in California, I don't have much of a say for your local policies. But Newsom will need to face the recall because of all he did
during the pandemic.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: US is not a free country. That are too many things you cannot do free.
: Free or not is only comparative. Mandating mask is only one of the
: thousands of things that are not free. I can say the same thing to you
that
: if you don't like the way it is, such as EOs on mask mandates, you can
move
: back to China.
: Which
: a
: function

FortyNiner

Do you need a permit to carry gun in public? Can you carry a loaded gun?
Can you buy a machine gun? RPG? Mine? Are you free to make explosive?
Can you do all these freely in Georgia? Seems you are happy with living in such a "no-free" state. There is no mask mandate in Georgia, that does not make Georgia better than Cal. As of now, Georgia has 22% more deaths per
capita than Cal, even you don't have overpopulated places like LA that
accounts for 40% of the deaths. But I guess you are not concerned with that, as long as it is not you or anyone you care about.
Yeah, Newsom might face recall, but whether or not he will be actually
recalled is still an unknown. What I know is Republicans in Georgia have
lost both seats in the Senate, and it is a done dealt. Don't tell me that
it had nothing to do with Repubs' handling of covid in the state. (Actually I don't know. Maybe Georgians are very happy with everything the repubs do there, including covid. Maybe they really just lost to "fake votes".)

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: I live in Georgia, a state that NEVER mandated mask. I'm happy to live
here.
: There is NO federal mask mandate. My country is NOT mandating mask.
: Since I don't live in California, I don't have much of a say for your
local
: policies. But Newsom will need to face the recall because of all he did
: during the pandemic.
: that
: move

r
rdfirdfi

Dem wins Georgia Senators' seat because Joe promised $2000 (oops, it's $1400 actually) to everyone. Yeah, it's somewhat linked to Covid.

I told you, my threshold for mandating mask is saving 5% of total population. California has 0.14% of people died from covid, while Georgia has 0.17%. I don't feel it's a huge difference.

My kid is going to school since last August. We had a couple of birthday
parties, one in an indoor playground (which mandates mask at the venue, and I agree with it since it's a privately owned venue).

I have been dining in restaurants indoor every week for quite a while.

Yes, in Georgia you can carry a loaded long gun in the public without a
permit.

Machine gun is banned by a federal legislation, not a governor's order. That means most people agrees to ban individuals owning machine gun. This is not the case for mask - there is no legislation, not even an attempt, after one whole year.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Do you need a permit to carry gun in public? Can you carry a loaded gun?
: Can you buy a machine gun? RPG? Mine? Are you free to make explosive? : Can you do all these freely in Georgia? Seems you are happy with living
in
: such a "no-free" state. There is no mask mandate in Georgia, that does
not
: make Georgia better than Cal. As of now, Georgia has 22% more deaths per : capita than Cal, even you don't have overpopulated places like LA that
: accounts for 40% of the deaths. But I guess you are not concerned with
that
: , as long as it is not you or anyone you care about.
: Yeah, Newsom might face recall, but whether or not he will be actually
: recalled is still an unknown. What I know is Republicans in Georgia have : ...................

FortyNiner

.17% is 21% higher than .14%. To me, that is a significant difference.
Just to tease you. Can you hold a loaded gun or rifle in public visible to others in Georgia? No machine gun or RPG in Georgia due to federal laws?
Then Georgia is not free due to federal laws, then you should consider
moving to some African country. I know that is stupid. The point is, gun
and mask mandate are only two of the many things that we consider. We give up on one or two things if it is necessary, anyway, we have given up many
things. There is nothing more sacred than lives. If we can give up lives, we can give up everything.
I agree with you that there should be no national mask mandate. All I
advocate is there are areas, like LA, where there is definitely a need for
mask mandate. Whether or not there is a need in a specific area, it is up
to the people there.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Dem wins Georgia Senators' seat because Joe promised $2000 (oops, it's $
1400
: actually) to everyone. Yeah, it's somewhat linked to Covid.
: I told you, my threshold for mandating mask is saving 5% of total
population
: . California has 0.14% of people died from covid, while Georgia has 0.17%. I
: don't feel it's a huge difference.
: My kid is going to school since last August. We had a couple of birthday
: parties, one in an indoor playground (which mandates mask at the venue,
and
: I agree with it since it's a privately owned venue).
: I have been dining in restaurants indoor every week for quite a while.
: Yes, in Georgia you can carry a loaded gun in the public without a permit.
: ...................

r
rdfirdfi

Can you hold a loaded gun or rifle in public visible to others in Georgia?

The answer is YES.

As long as there is no law forbidding certain behavior, the behavior is
allowed.

Machine gun ban is a legislation that reflected the people's will. We do
have the obligation to obey laws. Mask mandating, however, is never a law.

There are things more sacred than lives - the meaning of lives, the quality of lives. I think you would agree a life of 70 years outside of a jail is
better than a life of 100 inside of a jail.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: .17% is 21% higher than .14%. To me, that is a significant difference.
: Just to tease you. Can you hold a loaded gun or rifle in public visible
to
: others in Georgia? No machine gun or RPG in Georgia due to federal laws?
: Then Georgia is not free due to federal laws, then you should consider
: moving to some African country. I know that is stupid. The point is, gun
: and mask mandate are only two of the many things that we consider. We
give
: up on one or two things if it is necessary, anyway, we have given up many : things. There is nothing more sacred than lives. If we can give up lives,
: we can give up everything.
: I agree with you that there should be no national mask mandate. All I
: ...................

FortyNiner

I am not a lawyer, so my statement is not very rigorous. Of course I meant life with quality, nothing is more sacred than it. I am also a supporter of euthanasia.
You are too obsessed with formality. Laws allow EOs, so EOs are legit
unless revoked by the legislature.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Can you hold a loaded gun or rifle in public visible to others in Georgia?: The answer is YES.
: As long as there is no law forbidding certain behavior, the behavior is
: allowed.
: Machine gun ban is a legislation that reflected the people's will. We do
: have the obligation to obey laws. Mask mandating, however, is never a law.: There are things more sacred than lives - the meaning of lives, the
quality
: of lives. I think you would agree a life of 70 years outside of a jail is : better than a life of 100 inside of a jail.
: to
: ...................

r
rdfirdfi

Yes. Let's see if Newsom will be recalled.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: I am not a lawyer, so my statement is not very rigorous. Of course I
meant
: life with quality, nothing is more sacred than it. I am also a supporter of
: euthanasia.
: You are too obsessed with formality. Laws allow EOs, so EOs are legit
: unless revoked by the legislature.
:
: quality

FortyNiner

My guess is No since Cal is strong hold of Dems. I in general don't agree
with Dems, but I do think Newsom is doing fine.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Yes. Let's see if Newsom will be recalled.
: meant
: of

FortyNiner

I have a cousin living in suburb Atlanta. Before the runoff, I wechated her to encourage her to vote. I knew she and her family are supporters of
repubs. Unfortuantely they both lost.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Yes. Let's see if Newsom will be recalled.
: meant
: of

Breezewood

口罩令最大的好处是帮助私人室内活动场所的管理者劝说顾客和来访者戴上口罩。他们一旦蛮横拒绝,背后有政府强制力做后盾。警察不见得会管,但是业主在法律上会有必胜的优势

【 在 dime (dime) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1%-3%?LOL
: 口罩党有没有失望?
: 叔支持公共场合室内flu season戴口罩
: 可以让flu灭绝,这个叔大力赞成
: 但是mandate室外也戴,就是傻逼anti science
: The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said mask mandates
adopted
: last year were linked to almost a 2% drop in new COVID cases within 100
days
: of adoption.
: When states and localities lifted restrictions on in-person restaurant
: dining, they experienced a 1.1% increase in new coronavirus cases and a 3%
: ...................

I
Ignius

大家都买n95吧。一线的医疗工作者咱也顾不上了。既然有这么多不带口罩的傻逼,那
咱们就得保护好自己。一线的医疗工作者自求多福吧。

FortyNiner

Agree. Without a mandate or law, it is very difficult for merchants to
enforce their own requirements individually since there is pretty much no
consequence on the ones who do not follow the requirement. Imagine a store that requires mask. There are ten costumers and two employees inside, and
then one costumer comes in without mask. If that costumer does not
cooperate, (Don't say it is only an assumption, we have seen that too many
times.) it will take at least one employee to argue with him/her for ten
minutes, then call the police and wait for the police to escort that person out. It probably takes away half of the workforce for half an hour to an
hour. At the same time, those ten customers might not feel comfortable and just leave, they also have to wait in line for a longer time to pay if they decide to continue shopping there.

【 在 Breezewood (布瑞兹伍德) 的大作中提到: 】
: 口罩令最大的好处是帮助私人室内活动场所的管理者劝说顾客和来访者戴上口罩。他们
: 一旦蛮横拒绝,背后有政府强制力做后盾。警察不见得会管,但是业主在法律上会有必
: 胜的优势
: adopted
: days