Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.
“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,”
What’s more, there’s so far limited evidence that Sweden’s decision to leave much of its society open will support the economy. Finance Minister Magdalena Andersson recently warned that Sweden is facing its worst economic crisis since World War II, with GDP set to slump 7% in 2020, roughly as much as the rest of the EU.
Olofsdotter told NPR last month that the country's capital could reach herd immunity by the end of this month. Herd immunity occurs when enough people of a population are immune to an infectious disease, either because they've been infected and recovered or they've been vaccinated against it. Some researchers have put the threshold for coronavirus herd immunity at 60%.
"No that will not happen," Tegnell said Monday in an email to NPR. "Current investigations show different numbers, but [Stockholm's immunity rate] is likely lower [than 30%]. As you might be aware, there is a problem with measuring immunity for this virus."
Sweden's Public Health Agency last week released the initial findings of an ongoing antibodies study that showed that 7.3% of people in Stockholm had developed antibodies against COVID-19 by late April. Tegnell later described the study's figure as a "bit lower than we'd thought," adding that the findings represented a snapshot of the situation some weeks ago and he believed that by now "a little more than 20%" of Stockholm's population should have contracted the virus.
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】 : 本来说好的首都5月底形成群里免疫的呢？ : Olofsdotter told NPR last month that the country's capital could reach herd : immunity by the end of this month. Herd immunity occurs when enough people : of a population are immune to an infectious disease, either because they' ve : been infected and recovered or they've been vaccinated against it. Some : researchers have put the threshold for coronavirus herd immunity at 60%. : "No that will not happen," Tegnell said Monday in an email to NPR. " Current : investigations show different numbers, but [Stockholm's immunity rate] is : likely lower [than 30%]. As you might be aware, there is a problem with : measuring immunity for this virus." : ...................
Sweden has kept most schools, restaurants and businesses open during the pandemic and some theorized it might at least suffer less economic pain. But the latest data challenge that idea.
Scandinavia’s biggest economy will shrink 7 per cent this year, Finance Minister Magdalena Andersson said on Tuesday...
Andersson said her country is now seeing “a very deep economic crisis.” She also said the “deep downturn in the economy is happening faster than we expected.”
Marten Bjellerup, chief economist at the debt office in Stockholm, said he thinks Sweden will fare “somewhat better” than others, but acknowledged “the difference is marginal.”
...
For now, Sweden’s experiences suggest there might be few economic benefits to leaving an economy open during a pandemic.
Asked whether Sweden might see a quick rebound, Andersson, the finance minister, said “that doesn’t seem very likely at present. We expect a more drawn-out scenario.”
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】 : https://nationalpost.com/news/world/sweden-in-deep-economic-crisis-as-per-: capita-deaths-rise-despite-soft-lockdown : Sweden has kept most schools, restaurants and businesses open during the : pandemic and some theorized it might at least suffer less economic pain. But : the latest data challenge that idea. : Scandinavia’s biggest economy will shrink 7 per cent this year, Finance : Minister Magdalena Andersson said on Tuesday... : Andersson said her country is now seeing “a very deep economic crisis.” : She also said the “deep downturn in the economy is happening faster than we : expected.” : ...................
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】 : What’s more, there’s so far limited evidence that Sweden’s decision to : leave much of its society open will support the economy. Finance Minister : Magdalena Andersson recently warned that Sweden is facing its worst economic : crisis since World War II, with GDP set to slump 7% in 2020, roughly as : much as the rest of the EU.
【 在 beijingren4 () 的大作中提到: 】 : 发信人: beijingren4 (), 信区: Military : 标 题: 大大英明呀，瑞典死人太多，决策者跪了：”我们错了“ : 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jun 3 14:41:00 2020, 美东) : Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes : https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s- virus : -strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong : Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 : resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict : lockdown.
【 以下文字转载自 Military 讨论区 】
发信人: beijingren4 (), 信区: Military
标 题: 大大英明呀，瑞典死人太多，决策者跪了：”我们错了“
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jun 3 14:41:00 2020, 美东)
Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong
Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19
resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.
好贱的标题
。
“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we
have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,”
属实，这是媒体摘出来的，应该是最有代表性的原话。这句话可以适用于世界上每一个政府。
【 在 Saudi (沙武帝) 的大作中提到: 】
: 好贱的标题
: 。
再次证明，新冠专治不服。几个傻叉成天吹捧瑞典模式，结果瑞典死人多，经济也没比欧洲其他lockdown的国家更好。再看看邻国丹麦，挪威。先施行严格的lockdown，之后再reopen, 死亡人数控制住了，经济也重开了。
恩，而且周边国家还对瑞典联合封锁
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 再次证明，新冠专治不服。几个傻叉成天吹捧瑞典模式，结果瑞典死人多，经济也没比
: 欧洲其他lockdown的国家更好。再看看邻国丹麦，挪威。先施行严格的lockdown，之后
: 再reopen, 死亡人数控制住了，经济也重开了。
越反华的国家，越二逼
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 再次证明，新冠专治不服。几个傻叉成天吹捧瑞典模式，结果瑞典死人多，经济也没比
: 欧洲其他lockdown的国家更好。再看看邻国丹麦，挪威。先施行严格的lockdown，之后
: 再reopen, 死亡人数控制住了，经济也重开了。
越春又造谣。。。
其他国家经济不可能比瑞典好。只是计算这种层面的数据比死人数目要难太多，没人可以量化瑞典到底比别的国家好，以及好多少。
硬邦邦的数据是，瑞典病毒死去的人里中位年龄八十六。
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 再次证明，新冠专治不服。几个傻叉成天吹捧瑞典模式，结果瑞典死人多，经济也没比
: 欧洲其他lockdown的国家更好。再看看邻国丹麦，挪威。先施行严格的lockdown，之后
: 再reopen, 死亡人数控制住了，经济也重开了。
What’s more, there’s so far limited evidence that Sweden’s decision to
leave much of its society open will support the economy. Finance Minister
Magdalena Andersson recently warned that Sweden is facing its worst economic crisis since World War II, with GDP set to slump 7% in 2020, roughly as
much as the rest of the EU.
人家自己国家的人都觉得错了
你还在替他辩护
真的是掩耳盗铃的典型
关心问一句：保守广播还听嘛？ 那天你听人家凭良心讲几句公道话，就愤然不听了
太伤保守电台的心了
保持右派纯粹思想的不二法宝： 凡是不顺耳的话，一定都是假的，不听不听就是不听
【 在 fishingarden (Edward Blum门下老王) 的大作中提到: 】
: 越春又造谣。。。
: 其他国家经济不可能比瑞典好。只是计算这种层面的数据比死人数目要难太多，没人可
: 以量化瑞典到底比别的国家好，以及好多少。
: 硬邦邦的数据是，瑞典病毒死去的人里中位年龄八十六。
本来说好的首都5月底形成群里免疫的呢？
Olofsdotter told NPR last month that the country's capital could reach herd immunity by the end of this month. Herd immunity occurs when enough people
of a population are immune to an infectious disease, either because they've been infected and recovered or they've been vaccinated against it. Some
researchers have put the threshold for coronavirus herd immunity at 60%.
"No that will not happen," Tegnell said Monday in an email to NPR. "Current investigations show different numbers, but [Stockholm's immunity rate] is
likely lower [than 30%]. As you might be aware, there is a problem with
measuring immunity for this virus."
Sweden's Public Health Agency last week released the initial findings of an ongoing antibodies study that showed that 7.3% of people in Stockholm had
developed antibodies against COVID-19 by late April. Tegnell later described the study's figure as a "bit lower than we'd thought," adding that the
findings represented a snapshot of the situation some weeks ago and he
believed that by now "a little more than 20%" of Stockholm's population
should have contracted the virus.
他自己的原话是离预期有比较大的差距，不过抗体检查结果有很大的滞后。
总而言之，他没认为自己错，我也还是没认为他错。
封锁经济带来的很多损失无法量化，譬如家暴，譬如越春最擅长的忧郁症，等等，反正俺太太整天欺负我。
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 本来说好的首都5月底形成群里免疫的呢？
: Olofsdotter told NPR last month that the country's capital could reach
herd
: immunity by the end of this month. Herd immunity occurs when enough people
: of a population are immune to an infectious disease, either because they'
ve
: been infected and recovered or they've been vaccinated against it. Some
: researchers have put the threshold for coronavirus herd immunity at 60%.
: "No that will not happen," Tegnell said Monday in an email to NPR. "
Current
: investigations show different numbers, but [Stockholm's immunity rate] is : likely lower [than 30%]. As you might be aware, there is a problem with
: measuring immunity for this virus."
: ...................
你这个逻辑太强大了. 瑞典一个国家那么多人, 几个人认为错了能说明什么问题呢?
其他人都认为对呢?
【 在 splendor57 (执剑人) 的大作中提到: 】
: 人家自己国家的人都觉得错了
: 你还在替他辩护
: 真的是掩耳盗铃的典型
: 关心问一句：保守广播还听嘛？ 那天你听人家凭良心讲几句公道话，就愤然不听了
: 太伤保守电台的心了
: 保持右派纯粹思想的不二法宝： 凡是不顺耳的话，一定都是假的，不听不听就是不听
看来 不干扰的 群面不太靠谱，曲线必须压平，医院不能爆！
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 再次证明，新冠专治不服。几个傻叉成天吹捧瑞典模式，结果瑞典死人多，经济也没比
: 欧洲其他lockdown的国家更好。再看看邻国丹麦，挪威。先施行严格的lockdown，之后
: 再reopen, 死亡人数控制住了，经济也重开了。
也有可能是瑞典人自觉社交距离了，导致R0大幅降低。
如果我这个猜想为真，那么根本不用封锁，医院也不会爆。
【 在 cellcycle (vacoule) 的大作中提到: 】
: 看来 不干扰的 群面不太靠谱，曲线必须压平，医院不能爆！
瑞典新冠死亡人数远远超过邻国，经济没比欧洲其他国家好哪去，群免也没形成（少于30%）。还没错？几个邻国的经济已经开了一个月了，学生也开学了，现在每天死几个
人。瑞典现在还是死好几十。谁能说说瑞典这种模式到底好在哪里？
“经济没比欧洲其他国家好哪去”，请举证。
瑞典死亡人数虽然比邻国多，但是我上次检查瑞典比我们州少。另外对年轻人的伤害比上次大流感还少。
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 瑞典新冠死亡人数远远超过邻国，经济没比欧洲其他国家好哪去，群免也没形成（少于
: 30%）。还没错？几个邻国的经济已经开了一个月了，学生也开学了，现在每天死几个
: 人。瑞典现在还是死好几十。谁能说说瑞典这种模式到底好在哪里？
What’s more, there’s so far limited evidence that Sweden’s decision to
leave much of its society open will support the economy. Finance Minister
Magdalena Andersson recently warned that Sweden is facing its worst economic
crisis since World War II, with GDP set to slump 7% in 2020, roughly as
much as the rest of the EU.
没问题啊，这个帖子楼主举出了一个例子
你若觉得不对，按照这版上流行的“疑罪从无”原则
去找几个觉得瑞典对的观点呗
哦 我太天真了， 凡是这版上右派理论都不需要证据，但是凡是你们不愿意听的，一定要显微镜检测
举1个例子肯定是不够的，“1个国家那么多人, 几个人认为错了能说明什么问题呢”
那么2个例子也不够的哦
100万个例子也不够吧，因为还有900万人呢， 对吧?
呵呵
【 在 lczlcz (lcz) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你这个逻辑太强大了. 瑞典一个国家那么多人, 几个人认为错了能说明什么问题呢?
: 其他人都认为对呢?
capita-deaths-rise-despite-soft-lockdown
Sweden has kept most schools, restaurants and businesses open during the
pandemic and some theorized it might at least suffer less economic pain. But the latest data challenge that idea.
Scandinavia’s biggest economy will shrink 7 per cent this year, Finance
Minister Magdalena Andersson said on Tuesday...
Andersson said her country is now seeing “a very deep economic crisis.”
She also said the “deep downturn in the economy is happening faster than we expected.”
Marten Bjellerup, chief economist at the debt office in Stockholm, said he
thinks Sweden will fare “somewhat better” than others, but acknowledged “the difference is marginal.”
...
For now, Sweden’s experiences suggest there might be few economic benefits to leaving an economy open during a pandemic.
Asked whether Sweden might see a quick rebound, Andersson, the finance
minister, said “that doesn’t seem very likely at present. We expect a more drawn-out scenario.”
只要医疗系统没有崩溃，就不能说错了。对付新病毒，本来就需要尝试不同的应对方法。当然，事情过后，肯定能总结出一些经验教训，但如果把这种总结说成认错，那就特么太傻逼了。
他们会说一篇报告不够，
只代表一些人看法
搬出显微镜， 把你这篇连作者带网站批成渣渣
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/sweden-in-deep-economic-crisis-as-per-: capita-deaths-rise-despite-soft-lockdown
: Sweden has kept most schools, restaurants and businesses open during the
: pandemic and some theorized it might at least suffer less economic pain.
But
: the latest data challenge that idea.
: Scandinavia’s biggest economy will shrink 7 per cent this year, Finance
: Minister Magdalena Andersson said on Tuesday...
: Andersson said her country is now seeing “a very deep economic crisis.” : She also said the “deep downturn in the economy is happening faster than we
: expected.”
: ...................
你没证据说瑞典经济不好多少嘛。
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: What’s more, there’s so far limited evidence that Sweden’s decision to
: leave much of its society open will support the economy. Finance Minister
: Magdalena Andersson recently warned that Sweden is facing its worst
economic
: crisis since World War II, with GDP set to slump 7% in 2020, roughly as
: much as the rest of the EU.
人比邻国国家死得多得多，经济危机照样，群免也远远没形成。现在邻国经济重开，学校开学，每天新冠死亡寥寥无几，瑞典每天还是死好几十的。这不叫错啥叫错？
瑞典自己的finance minister说瑞典经济萎缩7%，Chief economist说不lockdown的经
济比lockdown的邻国的经济上的benefit marginal。
这还不叫证据？ 你可以去发信去质疑他们的数据。
你这是重复前面的原话了。没料我就不再理你了。
你说死人多很多，这是主观观点。我说比大流感少，这是客观事实。
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 人比邻国国家死得多得多，经济危机照样，群免也远远没形成。现在邻国经济重开，学
: 校开学，每天新冠死亡寥寥无几，瑞典每天还是死好几十的。这不叫错啥叫错？
瑞典人自己选的方式，勇敢的牺牲自己当小白鼠给世界看反例，很值得尊敬。但是现在连瑞典当初主张这个模式的专家都开始反思了，现在觉得这个模式一点没错的只能是智障了。
哈哈
你即使把瑞典人请到他面前，他还会继续抬杠
逗着玩娱乐下就好了
认真你就输了
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 瑞典自己的finance minister说瑞典经济萎缩7%，Chief economist说不lockdown的经
: 济比lockdown的邻国的经济上的benefit marginal。
: 这还不叫证据？ 你可以去发信去质疑他们的数据。
这种事实面前还硬杠的一般都是白痴。
谁都要反思。任何人的方式都需要修正。瑞典的做法是否比别的国家好，我依然认为是。没有限制人民的自由，死亡人数比大流感少，死者中位人数八十六。
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 瑞典人自己选的方式，勇敢的牺牲自己当小白鼠给世界看反例，很值得尊敬。但是现在
: 连瑞典当初主张这个模式的专家都开始反思了，现在觉得这个模式一点没错的只能是智
: 障了。
所以说你是白痴吗。
'死亡人数比大流感少'
ED王还真是造谣张口就来
哪次流感比这次死亡多，1918么？
100年前什么医疗条件
你干脆和中世纪黑死病比好了
事实上瑞典近100年最严重的死亡疾病就是这次https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disasters_in_Sweden_by_death_toll
而且还远远没有结束
【 在 fishingarden (Edward Blum门下老王) 的大作中提到: 】
: 谁都要反思。任何人的方式都需要修正。瑞典的做法是否比别的国家好，我依然认为是
: 。没有限制人民的自由，死亡人数比大流感少，死者中位人数八十六。
关键他这么比就很傻逼。看瑞典模式对错，就是要拿它跟邻国实行了严格lockdown的情况来对比，包括新冠的各种数据和对经济的影响。应该横向的比。结果这个傻逼硬要拿瑞典自己跟自己的纵向比，来说明没错。非傻即坏。
老王这中位数86想说明什么，中位数86的该死？
混淆视听的常用手段
这个版面多少帖子 多少空穴来风？
他要过证据吗？
鸡蛋里挑骨头还不容易
轻松盖你100 楼，还在继续抬杆
装睡的人你想吵醒 简直是在做梦
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 关键他这么比就很傻逼。看瑞典模式对错，就是要拿它跟邻国实行了严格lockdown的情
: 况来对比，包括新冠的各种数据和对经济的影响。应该横向的比。结果这个傻逼硬要拿
: 瑞典自己跟自己的纵向比，来说明没错。非傻即坏。
准确的说法是，年轻人的死亡人数比本世纪某次大流感还少。
【 在 kddk (kddk) 的大作中提到: 】
: '死亡人数比大流感少'
: ED王还真是造谣张口就来
: 哪次流感比这次死亡多，1918么？
: 100年前什么医疗条件
: 你干脆和中世纪黑死病比好了
: 事实上瑞典近100年最严重的死亡疾病就是这次
: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disasters_in_Sweden_by_death_toll
: 而且还远远没有结束
这是一个客观事实，怎么解读是主观观点。
我自己来说，我要是八十六了，哪天死我都无所谓。
【 在 Maverick (好吃不过饺子) 的大作中提到: 】
: 老王这中位数86想说明什么，中位数86的该死？
少吹逼，用数据说话
【 在 fishingarden (Edward Blum门下老王) 的大作中提到: 】
: 准确的说法是，年轻人的死亡人数比本世纪某次大流感还少。
他们这些川逼就靠着移花接木式的拼凑信息
看上去好像是那么回事
仔细一想全是胡扯
当然川逼主要成分都是低学历低智商人群
这么做足够糊弄人了
【 在 splendor57 (执剑人) 的大作中提到: 】
: 混淆视听的常用手段
: 这个版面多少帖子 多少空穴来风？
: 他要过证据吗？
: 鸡蛋里挑骨头还不容易
: 轻松盖你100 楼，还在继续抬杆
: 装睡的人你想吵醒 简直是在做梦
我在本版发过主题贴。
我开车不容易，别让我敲太多字啊，肯定的苦你要有良心。
【 在 kddk (kddk) 的大作中提到: 】
: 少吹逼，用数据说话
包子这个厉害国的决策者要是错了跪的是老百姓，
如果老百姓还健在的话。
【 在 beijingren4 () 的大作中提到: 】
: 发信人: beijingren4 (), 信区: Military
: 标 题: 大大英明呀，瑞典死人太多，决策者跪了：”我们错了“
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jun 3 14:41:00 2020, 美东)
: Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes
: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-
virus
: -strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong
: Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19
: resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a
strict
: lockdown.
哈哈
ED王被打脸又要遁了？
记得吃药啊
ED好点了么
【 在 fishingarden (Edward Blum门下老王) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我在本版发过主题贴。
: 我开车不容易，别让我敲太多字啊，肯定的苦你要有良心。
俺说话素来字字有根据，句句有出处。遁的是你。
【 在 kddk (kddk) 的大作中提到: 】
: 哈哈
: ED王被打脸又要遁了？
: 记得吃药啊
: ED好点了么
【 在 Ignius (Hyperion) 的大作中提到: 】
: 再次证明，新冠专治不服。几个傻叉成天吹捧瑞典模式，结果瑞典死人多，经济也没比
: 欧洲其他lockdown的国家更好。再看看邻国丹麦，挪威。先施行严格的lockdown，之后
: 再reopen, 死亡人数控制住了，经济也重开了。
哪有几个傻叉，除了傻叉方是民之外没看到有人吹捧
这楼里就有几个，以老王为首，还有捧臭脚的那几个。
只是摆摆姿态安抚人心而已，还当真了
人家道德水平高，自己先检讨，反倒不如那些脸皮厚不要脸的了？
[在 splendor57 (执剑人) 的大作中提到：]
:人家自己国家的人都觉得错了
:你还在替他辩护
:真的是掩耳盗铃的典型
:关心问一句：保守广播还听嘛？ 那天你听人家凭良心讲几句公道话，就愤然不听了
:太伤保守电台的心了
:保持右派纯粹思想的不二法宝： 凡是不顺耳的话，一定都是假的，不听不听就是不听