I am honored to be with you today at your commencement from one of the finest universities in the world. I never graduated from college. Truth be told, this is the closest I've ever gotten to a college graduation. Today I want to tell you three stories from my life. That's it. No big deal. Just three stories. The first story is about connecting the dots.
I dropped out of Reed College after the first 6 months, but then stayed around as a drop-in for another 18 months or so before I really quit. So why did I drop out?
It started before I was born. My biological mother was a young, unwed college graduate student, and she decided to put me up for adoption. She felt very strongly that I should be adopted by college graduates, so everything was all set for me to be adopted at birth by a lawyer and his wife. Except that when I popped out they decided at the last minute that they really wanted a girl. So my parents, who were on a waiting list, got a call in the middle of the night asking: "We have an unexpected baby boy; do you want him?" They said: "Of course." My biological mother later found out that my mother had never graduated from college and that my father had never graduated from high school. She refused to sign the final adoption papers. She only relented a few months later when my parents promised that I would someday go to college.
And 17 years later I did go to college. But I naively chose a college that was almost as expensive as Stanford, and all of my working-class parents' savings were being spent on my college tuition. After six months, I couldn't see the value in it. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life and no idea how college was going to help me figure it out. And here I was spending all of the money my parents had saved their entire life. So I decided to drop out and trust that it would all work out OK. It was pretty scary at the time, but looking back it was one of the best decisions I ever made. The minute I dropped out I could stop taking the required classes that didn't interest me, and begin dropping in on the ones that looked interesting.
It wasn't all romantic. I didn't have a dorm room, so I slept on the floor in friends' rooms, I returned coke bottles for the 5￠ deposits to buy food with, and I would walk the 7 miles across town every Sunday night to get one good meal a week at the Hare Krishna temple. I loved it. And much of what I stumbled into by following my curiosity and intuition turned out to be priceless later on. Let me give you one example:
Reed College at that time offered perhaps the best calligraphy instruction in the country. Throughout the campus every poster, every label on every drawer, was beautifully hand calligraphed. Because I had dropped out and didn't have to take the normal classes, I decided to take a calligraphy class to learn how to do this. I learned about serif and san serif typefaces , about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations, about what makes great typography great. It was beautiful, historical, artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I found it fascinating.
None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life. But ten years later, when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all came back to me. And we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first computer with beautiful typography. If I had never dropped in on that single course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts. And since Windows just copied the Mac, its likely that no personal computer would have them. If I had never dropped out , I would have never dropped in on this calligraphy class, and personal computers might not have the wonderful typography that they do. Of course it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards ten years later.
Again, you can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something — your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all the difference in my life.
My second story is about love and loss.
I was lucky — I found what I loved to do early in life. Woz and I started Apple in my parents garage when I was 20. We worked hard, and in 10 years Apple had grown from just the two of us in a garage into a $2 billion company with over 4000 employees. We had just released our finest creation — the Macintosh — a year earlier, and I had just turned 30. And then I got fired. How can you get fired from a company you started? Well, as Apple grew we hired someone who I thought was very talented to run the company with me, and for the first year or so things went well. But then our visions of the future began to diverge and eventually we had a falling out. When we did, our Board of Directors sided with him. So at 30 I was out. And very publicly out. What had been the focus of my entire adult life was gone, and it was devastating.
I really didn't know what to do for a few months. I felt that I had let the previous generation of entrepreneurs down - that I had dropped the baton as it was being passed to me. I met with David Packard and Bob Noyce and tried to apologize for screwing up so badly. I was a very public failure, and I even thought about running away from the valley. But something slowly began to dawn on me — I still loved what I did. The turn of events at Apple had not changed that one bit. I had been rejected, but I was still in love. And so I decided to start over.
I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting fired from Apple was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. The heaviness of being successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner again, less sure about everything. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods of my life.
During the next five years, I started a company named NeXT, another company named Pixar, and fell in love with an amazing woman who would become my wife . Pixar went on to create the worlds first computer animated feature film, Toy Story, and is now the most successful animation studio in the world. In a remarkable turn of events, Apple bought NeXT, I returned to Apple, and the technology we developed at NeXT is at the heart of Apple's current renaissance. And Laurene and I have a wonderful family together.
I'm pretty sure none of this would have happened if I hadn't been fired from Apple. It was awful tasting medicine, but I guess the patient needed it. Sometimes life hits you in the head with a brick. Don't lose faith. I'm convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did . You've got to find what you love. And that is as true for your work as it is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven 't found it yet, keep looking. Don't settle. As with all matters of the heart, you'll know when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking until you find it. Don't settle.
My third story is about death.
When I was 17, I read a quote that went something like: "If you live each day as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right." It made an impression on me, and since then, for the past 33 years, I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked myself: "If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the answer has been "No" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something. Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything — all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.
About a year ago I was diagnosed with cancer. I had a scan at 7:30 in the morning, and it clearly showed a tumor on my pancreas. I didn't even know what a pancreas was. The doctors told me this was almost certainly a type of cancer that is incurable, and that I should expect to live no longer than three to six months. My doctor advised me to go home and get my affairs in order, which is doctor's code for prepare to die. It means to try to tell your kids everything you thought you'd have the next 10 years to tell them in just a few months. It means to make sure everything is buttoned up so that it will be as easy as possible for your family. It means to say your goodbyes.
I lived with that diagnosis all day. Later that evening I had a biopsy, where they stuck an endoscope down my throat, through my stomach and into my intestines, put a needle into my pancreas and got a few cells from the tumor. I was sedated, but my wife, who was there, told me that when they viewed the cells under a microscope the doctors started crying because it turned out to be a very rare form of pancreatic cancer that is curable with surgery. I had the surgery and I'm fine now.
This was the closest I've been to facing death, and I hope its the closest I get for a few more decades. Having lived through it, I can now say this to you with a bit more certainty than when death was a useful but purely intellectual concept:
No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life's change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.
Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.
When I was young, there was an amazing publication called The Whole Earth Catalog, which was one of the bibles of my generation. It was created by a fellow named Stewart Brand not far from here in Menlo Park, and he brought it to life with his poetic touch. This was in the late 1960's, before personal computers and desktop publishing, so it was all made with typewriters, scissors, and polaroid cameras. It was sort of like Google in paperback form, 35 years before Google came along: it was idealistic, and overflowing with neat tools and great notions.
Stewart and his team put out several issues of The Whole Earth Catalog, and then when it had run its course, they put out a final issue. It was the mid- 1970s, and I was your age. On the back cover of their final issue was a photograph of an early morning country road, the kind you might find yourself hitchhiking on if you were so adventurous. Beneath it were the words: "Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish." It was their farewell message as they signed off. Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish. And I have always wished that for myself. And now, as you graduate to begin anew, I wish that for you.
Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish.
Thank you all very much.
You've got to find what you love,'
This is the text of the Commencement address by Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Computer and of Pixar Animation Studios, delivered on June 12, 2005.
I am honored to be with you today at your commencement from one of the finest universities in the world. I never graduated from college. Truth be told, this is the closest I've ever gotten to a college graduation. Today I want to tell you three stories from my life. That's it. No big deal. Just three stories. The first story is about connecting the dots.
I dropped out of Reed College after the first 6 months, but then stayed around as a drop-in for another 18 months or so before I really quit. So why did I drop out?
It started before I was born. My biological mother was a young, unwed college graduate student, and she decided to put me up for adoption. She felt very strongly that I should be adopted by college graduates, so everything was all set for me to be adopted at birth by a lawyer and his wife. Except that when I popped out they decided at the last minute that they really wanted a girl. So my parents, who were on a waiting list, got a call in the middle of the night asking: "We have an unexpected baby boy; do you want him?" They said: "Of course." My biological mother later found out that my mother had never graduated from college and that my father had never graduated from high school. She refused to sign the final adoption papers. She only relented a few months later when my parents promised that I would someday go to college.
And 17 years later I did go to college. But I naively chose a college that was almost as expensive as Stanford, and all of my working-class parents' savings were being spent on my college tuition. After six months, I couldn't see the value in it. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life and no idea how college was going to help me figure it out. And here I was spending all of the money my parents had saved their entire life. So I decided to drop out and trust that it would all work out OK. It was pretty scary at the time, but looking back it was one of the best decisions I ever made. The minute I dropped out I could stop taking the required classes that didn't interest me, and begin dropping in on the ones that looked interesting.
It wasn't all romantic. I didn't have a dorm room, so I slept on the floor in friends' rooms, I returned coke bottles for the 5￠ deposits to buy food with, and I would walk the 7 miles across town every Sunday night to get one good meal a week at the Hare Krishna temple. I loved it. And much of what I stumbled into by following my curiosity and intuition turned out to be priceless later on. Let me give you one example:
Reed College at that time offered perhaps the best calligraphy instruction in the country. Throughout the campus every poster, every label on every drawer, was beautifully hand calligraphed. Because I had dropped out and didn't have to take the normal classes, I decided to take a calligraphy class to learn how to do this. I learned about serif and san serif typefaces , about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations, about what makes great typography great. It was beautiful, historical, artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I found it fascinating.
None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life. But ten years later, when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all came back to me. And we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first computer with beautiful typography. If I had never dropped in on that single course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts. And since Windows just copied the Mac, its likely that no personal computer would have them. If I had never dropped out , I would have never dropped in on this calligraphy class, and personal computers might not have the wonderful typography that they do. Of course it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards ten years later.
Again, you can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something — your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all the difference in my life.
My second story is about love and loss.
I was lucky — I found what I loved to do early in life. Woz and I started Apple in my parents garage when I was 20. We worked hard, and in 10 years Apple had grown from just the two of us in a garage into a $2 billion company with over 4000 employees. We had just released our finest creation — the Macintosh — a year earlier, and I had just turned 30. And then I got fired. How can you get fired from a company you started? Well, as Apple grew we hired someone who I thought was very talented to run the company with me, and for the first year or so things went well. But then our visions of the future began to diverge and eventually we had a falling out. When we did, our Board of Directors sided with him. So at 30 I was out. And very publicly out. What had been the focus of my entire adult life was gone, and it was devastating.
I really didn't know what to do for a few months. I felt that I had let the previous generation of entrepreneurs down - that I had dropped the baton as it was being passed to me. I met with David Packard and Bob Noyce and tried to apologize for screwing up so badly. I was a very public failure, and I even thought about running away from the valley. But something slowly began to dawn on me — I still loved what I did. The turn of events at Apple had not changed that one bit. I had been rejected, but I was still in love. And so I decided to start over.
I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting fired from Apple was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. The heaviness of being successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner again, less sure about everything. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods of my life.
During the next five years, I started a company named NeXT, another company named Pixar, and fell in love with an amazing woman who would become my wife . Pixar went on to create the worlds first computer animated feature film, Toy Story, and is now the most successful animation studio in the world. In a remarkable turn of events, Apple bought NeXT, I returned to Apple, and the technology we developed at NeXT is at the heart of Apple's current renaissance. And Laurene and I have a wonderful family together.
I'm pretty sure none of this would have happened if I hadn't been fired from Apple. It was awful tasting medicine, but I guess the patient needed it. Sometimes life hits you in the head with a brick. Don't lose faith. I'm convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did . You've got to find what you love. And that is as true for your work as it is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven 't found it yet, keep looking. Don't settle. As with all matters of the heart, you'll know when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking until you find it. Don't settle.
My third story is about death.
When I was 17, I read a quote that went something like: "If you live each day as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right." It made an impression on me, and since then, for the past 33 years, I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked myself: "If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the answer has been "No" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something. Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything — all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.
About a year ago I was diagnosed with cancer. I had a scan at 7:30 in the morning, and it clearly showed a tumor on my pancreas. I didn't even know what a pancreas was. The doctors told me this was almost certainly a type of cancer that is incurable, and that I should expect to live no longer than three to six months. My doctor advised me to go home and get my affairs in order, which is doctor's code for prepare to die. It means to try to tell your kids everything you thought you'd have the next 10 years to tell them in just a few months. It means to make sure everything is buttoned up so that it will be as easy as possible for your family. It means to say your goodbyes.
I lived with that diagnosis all day. Later that evening I had a biopsy, where they stuck an endoscope down my throat, through my stomach and into my intestines, put a needle into my pancreas and got a few cells from the tumor. I was sedated, but my wife, who was there, told me that when they viewed the cells under a microscope the doctors started crying because it turned out to be a very rare form of pancreatic cancer that is curable with surgery. I had the surgery and I'm fine now.
This was the closest I've been to facing death, and I hope its the closest I get for a few more decades. Having lived through it, I can now say this to you with a bit more certainty than when death was a useful but purely intellectual concept:
No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life's change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.
Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.
When I was young, there was an amazing publication called The Whole Earth Catalog, which was one of the bibles of my generation. It was created by a fellow named Stewart Brand not far from here in Menlo Park, and he brought it to life with his poetic touch. This was in the late 1960's, before personal computers and desktop publishing, so it was all made with typewriters, scissors, and polaroid cameras. It was sort of like Google in paperback form, 35 years before Google came along: it was idealistic, and overflowing with neat tools and great notions.
Stewart and his team put out several issues of The Whole Earth Catalog, and then when it had run its course, they put out a final issue. It was the mid- 1970s, and I was your age. On the back cover of their final issue was a photograph of an early morning country road, the kind you might find yourself hitchhiking on if you were so adventurous. Beneath it were the words: "Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish." It was their farewell message as they signed off. Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish. And I have always wished that for myself. And now, as you graduate to begin anew, I wish that for you.
Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish.
Thank you all very much.
You've got to find what you love,'
This is the text of the Commencement address by Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Computer and of Pixar Animation Studios, delivered on June 12, 2005.
=================== I finally realized that lz mm was not here for suggestions and opinions as we thought, she was here to inform us that she was going back.
我想我还多少明白楼主上来“征求意见”的目的吧，所以我会反复强调她的问题不是绿卡的问题，而是心态的问题。如果还是同样心态的话，地理的转变我并不觉得会给她带来人生的转变和机遇。说实话，她听不听是一回事，我说不说又是另外一回事，而且我说的很多话未必是给她一个人听的（it's her loss if she does not listen），如果能对看这个帖子的任何人有一定的帮助我都会很高兴，有一个妹妹就给我私下发信感谢我的发言给她带来了一定的启示。否定自身努力的事情我会留给别人去做，我自己所需要做的就是努力，当然不单单是指这个帖子了，这是我做事的一贯原则。
楼主把Steve Jobs的讲话拿出来说话我觉得多少有些可笑，因为说实话我觉得她其实没有完全理解Jobs的意思，或者就是selectively地从字面上去寻找自己回去的理由吧。Steve says: stay hungry -> so LZ thinks: ok, follow my stomach; Steve says: stay foolish -> LZ figures: ok, ignore other people's contrary opinions. 上面这句话多少有些开玩笑了，不过其实道理就是那么回事，看大家怎么理解了。
我想我还多少明白楼主上来“征求意见”的目的吧，所以我会反复强调她的问题不是绿卡的问题，而是心态的问题。如果还是同样心态的话，地理的转变我并不觉得会给她带来人生的转变和机遇。说实话，她听不听是一回事，我说不说又是另外一回事，而且我说的很多话未必是给她一个人听的（it's her loss if she does not listen），如果能对看这个帖子的任何人有一定的帮助我都会很高兴，有一个妹妹就给我私下发信感谢我的发言给她带来了一定的启示。否定自身努力的事情我会留给别人去做，我自己所需要做的就是努力，当然不单单是指这个帖子了，这是我做事的一贯原则。
楼主把Steve Jobs的讲话拿出来说话我觉得多少有些可笑，因为说实话我觉得她其实没有完全理解Jobs的意思，或者就是selectively地从字面上去寻找自己回去的理由吧。Steve says: stay hungry -> so LZ thinks: ok, follow my stomach; Steve says: stay foolish -> LZ figures: ok, ignore other people's contrary opinions. 上面这句话多少有些开玩笑了，不过其实道理就是那么回事，看大家怎么理解了。
我想我还多少明白楼主上来“征求意见”的目的吧，所以我会反复强调她的问题不是绿卡的问题，而是心态的问题。如果还是同样心态的话，地理的转变我并不觉得会给她带来人生的转变和机遇。说实话，她听不听是一回事，我说不说又是另外一回事，而且我说的很多话未必是给她一个人听的（it's her loss if she does not listen），如果能对看这个帖子的任何人有一定的帮助我都会很高兴，有一个妹妹就给我私下发信感谢我的发言给她带来了一定的启示。否定自身努力的事情我会留给别人去做，我自己所需要做的就是努力，当然不单单是指这个帖子了，这是我做事的一贯原则。
楼主把Steve Jobs的讲话拿出来说话我觉得多少有些可笑，因为说实话我觉得她其实没有完全理解Jobs的意思，或者就是selectively地从字面上去寻找自己回去的理由吧。Steve says: stay hungry -> so LZ thinks: ok, follow my stomach; Steve says: stay foolish -> LZ figures: ok, ignore other people's contrary opinions. 上面这句话多少有些开玩笑了，不过其实道理就是那么回事，看大家怎么理解了。
我想我还多少明白楼主上来“征求意见”的目的吧，所以我会反复强调她的问题不是绿卡的问题，而是心态的问题。如果还是同样心态的话，地理的转变我并不觉得会给她带来人生的转变和机遇。说实话，她听不听是一回事，我说不说又是另外一回事，而且我说的很多话未必是给她一个人听的（it's her loss if she does not listen），如果能对看这个帖子的任何人有一定的帮助我都会很高兴，有一个妹妹就给我私下发信感谢我的发言给她带来了一定的启示。否定自身努力的事情我会留给别人去做，我自己所需要做的就是努力，当然不单单是指这个帖子了，这是我做事的一贯原则。
楼主把Steve Jobs的讲话拿出来说话我觉得多少有些可笑，因为说实话我觉得她其实没有完全理解Jobs的意思，或者就是selectively地从字面上去寻找自己回去的理由吧。Steve says: stay hungry -> so LZ thinks: ok, follow my stomach; Steve says: stay foolish -> LZ figures: ok, ignore other people's contrary opinions. 上面这句话多少有些开玩笑了，不过其实道理就是那么回事，看大家怎么理解了。
还拿楼主的case来说吧，既然大家已经比较熟悉了，没有专门针对她的意思。如果我是她的话，我未必一定会坚持等绿卡，但我会坚持在美国这边多获得一些经验，多体验美国，多加强自己对美国的理解和英文沟通的能力。我不会因为这些事情我不喜欢或者排斥就去轻易放弃，因为既然选择来到了这里就一定要充分利用这个机会。绿卡在这种情况下倒更多的像个by-product了。至于类似国内的美食和娱乐这些考虑，在我看来是属于something nice to have，但绝对是属于为了大局可以放弃的因素。美国对于现在的中国留学生而言绝对不应该是不归路，但是希望大家能把在这里的经历和学习当做铸造和完善自身的一个机会，而不仅仅是简历上的几个bullet。
还拿楼主的case来说吧，既然大家已经比较熟悉了，没有专门针对她的意思。如果我是她的话，我未必一定会坚持等绿卡，但我会坚持在美国这边多获得一些经验，多体验美国，多加强自己对美国的理解和英文沟通的能力。我不会因为这些事情我不喜欢或者排斥就去轻易放弃，因为既然选择来到了这里就一定要充分利用这个机会。绿卡在这种情况下倒更多的像个by-product了。至于类似国内的美食和娱乐这些考虑，在我看来是属于something nice to have，但绝对是属于为了大局可以放弃的因素。美国对于现在的中国留学生而言绝对不应该是不归路，但是希望大家能把在这里的经历和学习当做铸造和完善自身的一个机会，而不仅仅是简历上的几个bullet。
hand hand.我妈也特别好。我跟她比，差n个数量级。我老公的一大幻想，就是我像我妈该多好。
concord mm你不是一般的牛了，你的婆婆故事让我佩服得五体投地。
我突然想到了班上讨论过的邓文迪.. 你说她真的觉得心中忐忑不安了吗?
她觉得抢了美国人的老公，某种程度上为国争光了，joking...
她这个绝对不算小便宜。。。超级大便宜。当然，也不是换了哪个女的，都能做到这一步，每个人心里面的利益天平砝码不一样嘛。。可能对邓来说，金钱和权势超过一切。
她忐忑不安就鬼了。。。最多忐忑不安哪天老默又被人翘了财产分不到怎么办。。。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 19:21:19编辑过]
京官确实要好些，要cash的相对少，招待一下、送个礼物和报销一堆收据什么的就ok了。
做地方官成本高啊,很多地方做到什莫级别都几乎是明码标价的,那出了血自然是要吸回来的
concord mm你不是一般的牛了，你的婆婆故事让我佩服得五体投地。
你不觉得我妈妈是那种心地特别善良，做人又有原则的人吗？我跟她比，小聪明有余，善良宽容之心不足。
我突然想到了班上讨论过的邓文迪.. 你说她真的觉得心中忐忑不安了吗?
其实她谈不忐忑部重要，重要的是你在她的位置，你是否忐忑。不管他是否忐忑，她在我眼里都不是一般人能做到的了拉。
做地方官成本高啊,很多地方做到什莫级别都几乎是明码标价的,那出了血自然是要吸回来的
这样啊。我爸他们是国务院直接任命的，不要钱的。
是呀，我爸是挺幸运的。我爸妈是大学同班同学。
我爸妈也是大学同班同学。
这样啊。我爸他们是国务院直接任命的，不要钱的。
地方上也是任命的,但是心里有数的人是不会在家等天上掉馅饼的,一般都会主动上下打点.
暗示错误，动机不纯。另：我已经说过那官员不是你亲爹了。
那是当然，这个还用你三番五次的强调吗？
不过如果我要是选择为了赚钱叫人家亲爹，也要竞业点，不要前脚人家给了钱塞到兜里，后脚就急着撇清关系说人家脏，人家要不脏你能赚到吗？
真清高就别跟这种人打交道别赚人家的钱，那谁都敬佩您。您那么财大气粗，又不是没的选了。
垃圾筒是脏，苍蝇整天盯着垃圾筒嗡嗡嗡舍不得走，一边还跟人说垃圾筒脏。真是奇妙的心态。
===============================================================
还有这个 ：我实在不明白你是什么意思，我并没有跟你开玩笑。我说2000块的意思是打个比方，就好象我手里有2000块相当于白手起家了，在美国是不是也可以象你说的那样走正经渠道赚大钱。是不是已经到了你说的足够的钱，还是要到多少钱？
看你这些回复，我真佩服您的想象力和理解力，什么都能理解到那件事上，是不是那已经对您是家常便饭了？
以下是引用ybzh在2009-4-22 16:16:00的发言：
你错了。中国的任何赚钱的机会都需要走某种意义上的非正规渠道，而美国只要是有足够的钱就可以放心大胆地走正经渠道。
以下是引用iilovecat在2009-4-22 16:21:00的发言：
这是一种什么样的门槛，我现在有2000块钱，可以么？
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以下是引用iilovecat在2009-4-22 16:21:00的发言：
这是一种什么样的门槛，我现在有2000块钱，可以么？
以下是引用ybzh在2009-4-22 16:26:00的发言：
2000美元吗？我可以找个美国老头陪你一晚，也算渠道了。
PS：别介意啊，既然you started the joking part...
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:01:52编辑过]
你不觉得我妈妈是那种心地特别善良，做人又有原则的人吗？我跟她比，小聪明有余，善良宽容之心不足。
是啊，这就是integrity.我老板对人最大的褒扬就是这个人有integrity. 我也是不敢跟我妈比得，没有那么坚强伟大。。。
我爸妈也是大学同班同学。
我大姨和大姨夫，我叔叔婶婶也都是呢。
至于身份，绿卡我不觉得拿到了生活就有质的变化。只少我母亲全世界的讲学，开会，就像在国内出差一样。
可对于我来说，我对名誉和金钱看得没那么重。我挺喜欢美国安逸的生活。当然这是个trade off, 注定我一辈子不会有大成就。我从小生活没为钱愁过，对我来说钱多钱少也差不了太多，因为我的爱好也不需要那么多钱来实现。
其实归不归因人而异，很多时候完全看你对生活的expectation.
我大姨和大姨夫，我叔叔婶婶也都是呢。
还有你跟你老公。
应该说你爸也比较幸运，比较早的时候就碰上了自己的意中人。对于很多人来说，这种事情是可遇不可求的，但到了年龄出于各种实际的考虑又不能不结婚，尤其是在以前的时候。
忽然想起来一个伯伯，北大毕业的，年轻的时候人长得帅不说，还特模范，家务活全包。他老婆呢初中毕业（我没有歧视初中毕业的同学的意思哈），在家也不干活儿，还特横，跟同事关系也不好。他们两人一个单位的，结果那个伯伯选校长，老是因为他老婆的原因别人投反对票。也是因为当年分到边远的地方，又出于年龄考虑不得不结婚。
人的欲望是无底洞，在没有什么信仰的情况下就贪钱了，现在我还真不认识还信奉任何主义的官员。至于sleep around可能会有各种各样的原因，我印象比较深的是一个年纪50岁左右的官员跟我交心的时候说的话：“我们这一代的婚姻很多都是不幸福的，当时结婚也不懂自己要的什么样的人，为了分房子、留京什么的也就结了，现在出来玩玩也算是一种补偿吧。”
这个人的价值观和个性还真是一脉相承，年轻的时候用婚姻换“前程”换房子，年纪大了有权的时候就自然用权力交换其它利益。
不是life threatening的情况，不要去急诊室。
MM的roomie这种情况，直接打电话到自己的医生那儿，当然接电话的不是医生本人，跟接线员讲清状况，接线员应该会转给相应的护士，告诉你一些从现在到见医生前需要自己做的冰敷等应急措施，并帮你约好。
代roomie谢谢mm的建议。她现在也基本上恢复了，就是折腾得比较久。
这个人的价值观和个性还真是一脉相承，年轻的时候用婚姻换“前程”换房子，年纪大了有权的时候就自然用权力交换其它利益。
这个mm你看问题眼光很犀利。
hand hand.我妈也特别好。我跟她比，差n个数量级。我老公的一大幻想，就是我像我妈该多好。
MM跟公公婆婆的相处已经体现出大智慧了。MM有时间能开个帖子讲讲MM的妈妈吗？一定精彩。
这个人的价值观和个性还真是一脉相承，年轻的时候用婚姻换“前程”换房子，年纪大了有权的时候就自然用权力交换其它利益。
nod nod,现在这样的人也很多，年轻的时候把身心卖光光，老的时候想在用钱买回来，可能买回来么？
我大姨和大姨夫，我叔叔婶婶也都是呢。
我跟ex也是大学同学，而且跟我爸妈都是一个学校的，而且我还是一路附中上来的。当时开玩笑说我们家血统真纯阿。
这楼有点歪了。言归正传。我觉得回不回国完全取决于自己如何看待人生。我母亲，舅舅都是90年代的美国海归，（没拿到绿卡），那时他们在美国的朋友没一个人可以理解他们为什么回国的。现如今我母亲是中国医学届很有名的专家，我舅舅是中科院的科学家，他们都是863，973的参与者，也都曾拿到几百到几千万的课题基金。而当初那些出色的留美华人在10几年后却没有拿到我母亲在中国享有的名誉。其实在美国，对于华人来说上升空间太有限（我只针对医学界）。
至于身份，绿卡我不觉得拿到了生活就有质的变化。只少我母亲全世界的讲学，开会，就像在国内出差一样。
可对于我来说，我对名誉和金钱看得没那么重。我挺喜欢美国安逸的生活。当然这是个trade off, 注定我一辈子不会有大成就。我从小生活没为钱愁过，对我来说钱多钱少也差不了太多，因为我的爱好也不需要那么多钱来实现。
其实归不归因人而异，很多时候完全看你对生活的expectation.
你母亲的那些朋友们，有些应该是跟你一个type的，所以留在美国挺好的。
代roomie谢谢mm的建议。她现在也基本上恢复了，就是折腾得比较久。
不客气。我们也是慢慢才琢磨出美国的急诊室跟国内的急诊室不是一回事的。
这个mm你看问题眼光很犀利。
被大牛MM夸奖，受宠若惊啊
你母亲的那些朋友们，有些应该是跟你一个type的，所以留在美国挺好的。
当初也许是一个type, 可攀比心还在。毕竟也曾经是很牛过的人。如果能一直保持一种心态，现在也就不会郁闷了。
我觉得就是这样。在国内对既得利益者是不错，但是底层的人要往上爬，就很难了。
这个不能同意。见过很多国内的没有任何背景和关系的人，或是凭自己的专业知识和管理能力为别人打工，赚高薪，或是白手起家自己开公司，取得成功。说什么国内有钱人都是evil（是不是千万资产为线啊？）真是太武断了。
确实国内各种规章制度没有美国健全（人家是发达国家，我们是发展中，这个差距肯定是有的），对small business不是很有利，但是无数的中小企业还是发展起来了，而且发展速度举世无双。这说明我们不完善的地方有，但并不严重到阻碍经济的增长，过分夸大这个缺陷和无视这个缺陷是一样可笑的。
说一下个人认为的在美国和国内做生意的最大差别，就是信用和收款问题。在美国商场上（个人住房市场好像最近出了很多反面例子）大家习惯了重视信用，有做百年老店的信念，付款很及时。在中国不然，很多都是能拖就拖。
再扯个跟做生意不相干的。中国的高考制度，正是让底层的人往上爬的一个相对来说非常公平的制度。最近有人嚷嚷着要改革高考制度，取消全国统考，跟美国这边的接轨，可千万别哪，那才是给了人一个最方便的腐败机会。
这楼有点歪了。言归正传。我觉得回不回国完全取决于自己如何看待人生。我母亲，舅舅都是90年代的美国海归，（没拿到绿卡），那时他们在美国的朋友没一个人可以理解他们为什么回国的。现如今我母亲是中国医学届很有名的专家，我舅舅是中科院的科学家，他们都是863，973的参与者，也都曾拿到几百到几千万的课题基金。而当初那些出色的留美华人在10几年后却没有拿到我母亲在中国享有的名誉。其实在美国，对于华人来说上升空间太有限（我只针对医学界）。
至于身份，绿卡我不觉得拿到了生活就有质的变化。只少我母亲全世界的讲学，开会，就像在国内出差一样。
可对于我来说，我对名誉和金钱看得没那么重。我挺喜欢美国安逸的生活。当然这是个trade off, 注定我一辈子不会有大成就。我从小生活没为钱愁过，对我来说钱多钱少也差不了太多，因为我的爱好也不需要那么多钱来实现。
其实归不归因人而异，很多时候完全看你对生活的expectation.
mm, 回国当然有人成功，在美国的也有人成功啊，到目前为止华人nobel prize winner 都还是留在美国获得的吧？还有无数的IT 精英，教授，经商人士。能不能成功，在那里成功，这个太具体分析了吧。这里我想绝对没有人说留在美国就会成功，回国就不会成功，看的都是个人的努力吧。还有既然你用学术界的人来举例，我也用学术界的人来说好了，台湾从美国回去的博士多吧，但是你觉得是留在美国成功的科学家多，还是回去的多呢？就算是李远哲，也是在美国成名了再回去的。另外还有就是你家亲戚90年代回去，那时候凤毛麟角，自己努力要出头反而容易，现在当人人都回去的时候，就不一样了。海龟跟炒股一样，当人人都不敢买的时候，你买了说不定就大赚了，你家亲戚就是这样，可当人人都以为是好机会的时候，就不见得是好机会了。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:14:15编辑过]
我突然想到了班上讨论过的邓文迪.. 你说她真的觉得心中忐忑不安了吗?
应该不会，心中有大计划的人的一个突出特点就是不在乎大众会对他或她如何评价，关键看结果。
再扯个跟做生意不相干的。中国的高考制度，正是让底层的人往上爬的一个相对来说非常公平的制度。最近有人嚷嚷着要改革高考制度，取消全国统考，跟美国这边的接轨，可千万别哪，那才是给了人一个最方便的腐败机会。
我说的底层的人现在变得难了，是相对我自己当年来说。你知不知道现在很多穷人家的孩子面对先富起来的这部分人的孩子竞争有多难。从前至少在我上高中的时候，城乡差距相对小，只要你学习好，你就能上大学，而且上很好的大学时没问题的。现在什么情况你知道么，因为市场竞争的关系，好的老师都集中在发达地区，大城市，很多基层好的老师都出逃，基层的教育越来越差。农村孩子不但输在起跑线，而且一路输，到了高考就算你考上了还要面对高额的学费生活费，虽然国家有贷款，但是现在大学生就业那么差，很多人根本不敢读这个大学，直接打工了。我们老家是广东的，亲戚朋友在教育线上的在广州以及珠三角各地的都有，所以城乡的情况我都了解。广东在全国来说已经算是比较先进的了，现在基础教育也不要钱，可是架不住老师们都往好地方跑啊。跟我当年的过独木桥的情况相比，现在的情况对底层的人来说，恶化了不是一点半点。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:08:27编辑过]
我说的底层的人现在变得难了，是相对我自己当年来说。你知不知道现在很多穷人家的孩子面对先富起来的这部分人的孩子竞争有多难。从前至少在我上高中的时候，城乡差距相对小，只要你学习好，你就能上大学，而且上很好的大学时没问题的。现在什么情况你知道么，因为市场竞争的关系，好的老师都集中在发达地区，大城市，很多基层好的老师都出逃，基层的教育越来越差。农村孩子不但输在起跑线，而且一路输，到了高考就算你考上了还要面对高额的学费生活费，虽然国家有贷款，但是现在大学生就业那么差，很多人根本不敢读这个大学，直接打工了。我们老家是广东的，亲戚朋友在教育线上的在广州以及珠三角各地的都有，所以城乡的情况我都了解。广东在全国来说已经算是比较先进的了，现在读书也不要钱，可是架不住老师们都往好地方跑啊。跟我当年的过独木桥的情况相比，现在的情况对底层的人来说，恶化了不是一点半点。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:05:28编辑过]
说起高考，我们北京的考生确实是占尽天时地利。老师本来水平就高，家长也多是受过高等教育，北京的高校多，招生名额也多。比起很多地方的考生来，我们付出的努力小得多，考上好的大学却更容易。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:09:30编辑过]
那是当然，这个还用你三番五次的强调吗？
不过如果我要是选择为了赚钱叫人家亲爹，也要竞业点，不要前脚人家给了钱塞到兜里，后脚就急着撇清关系说人家脏，人家要不脏你能赚到吗？
真清高就别跟这种人打交道别赚人家的钱，那谁都敬佩您。您那么财大气粗，又不是没的选了。
垃圾筒是脏，苍蝇整天盯着垃圾筒嗡嗡嗡舍不得走，一边还跟人说垃圾筒脏。真是奇妙的心态。
===============================================================
还有这个 ：我实在不明白你是什么意思，我并没有跟你开玩笑。我说2000块的意思是打个比方，就好象我手里有2000块相当于白手起家了，在美国是不是也可以象你说的那样走正经渠道赚大钱。是不是已经到了你说的足够的钱，还是要到多少钱？
看你这些回复，我真佩服您的想象力和理解力，什么都能理解到那件事上，是不是那已经对您是家常便饭了？
以下是引用ybzh在2009-4-22 16:16:00的发言：
你错了。中国的任何赚钱的机会都需要走某种意义上的非正规渠道，而美国只要是有足够的钱就可以放心大胆地走正经渠道。
以下是引用iilovecat在2009-4-22 16:21:00的发言：
这是一种什么样的门槛，我现在有2000块钱，可以么？
====================================================================
以下是引用ybzh在2009-4-22 16:26:00的发言：
2000美元吗？我可以找个美国老头陪你一晚，也算渠道了。
PS：别介意啊，既然you started the joking part...
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:01:52编辑过]
Pat pat...别生气...I was in the joking mood at the time...多有冒犯，向小妹妹道个歉吧。
Pat pat...别生气...I was in the joking mood at the time...多有冒犯，向小妹妹道个歉吧。
早跟你说，对小妹妹，要厚道，要厚道。
早跟你说，对小妹妹，要厚道，要厚道。
必须的。必须的。
mm, 回国当然有人成功，在美国的也有人成功啊，到目前为止华人nobel prize winner 都还是留在美国获得的吧？还有无数的IT 精英，教授，经商人士。能不能成功，在那里成功，这个太具体分析了吧。这里我想绝对没有人说留在美国就会成功，回国就不会成功，看的都是个人的努力吧。还有既然你用学术界的人来举例，我也用学术界的人来说好了，台湾从美国回去的博士多吧，但是你觉得是留在美国成功的科学家多，还是回去的多呢？就算是李远哲，也是在美国成名了再回去的。另外还有就是你家亲戚90年代回去，那时候凤毛麟角，自己努力要出头反而容易，现在当人人都回去的时候，就不一样了。海龟跟炒股一样，当人人都不敢买的时候，你买了说不定就大赚了，你家亲戚就是这样，可当人人都以为是好机会的时候，就不见得是好机会了。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:14:15编辑过]
That's a very good point. 当大家都在说机会的时候，机会其实早就已经过去了。
2000美元吗？我可以找个美国老头陪你一晚，也算渠道了。
PS：别介意啊，既然you started the joking part...
太过了吧
太过了吧
所以他后来道歉了呀。那个玩笑是有点儿过，虽然是玩笑。
我跟ex也是大学同学，而且跟我爸妈都是一个学校的，而且我还是一路附中上来的。当时开玩笑说我们家血统真纯阿。
嘻嘻，我和我老公和我爸妈也是一个学校的。
太过了吧
I thought the MM was kidding with me...looking back, I misunderstood her indeed...
嘻嘻，我和我老公和我爸妈也是一个学校的。
beida?
mm, 回国当然有人成功，在美国的也有人成功啊，到目前为止华人nobel prize winner 都还是留在美国获得的吧？还有无数的IT 精英，教授，经商人士。能不能成功，在那里成功，这个太具体分析了吧。这里我想绝对没有人说留在美国就会成功，回国就不会成功，看的都是个人的努力吧。还有既然你用学术界的人来举例，我也用学术界的人来说好了，台湾从美国回去的博士多吧，但是你觉得是留在美国成功的科学家多，还是回去的多呢？就算是李远哲，也是在美国成名了再回去的。另外还有就是你家亲戚90年代回去，那时候凤毛麟角，自己努力要出头反而容易，现在当人人都回去的时候，就不一样了。海龟跟炒股一样，当人人都不敢买的时候，你买了说不定就大赚了，你家亲戚就是这样，可当人人都以为是好机会的时候，就不见得是好机会了。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:14:15编辑过]
所以说要看心态啊！回国当然是要付risk premium的啊。不过这跟年代无关。90年代海龟风险就是要承受物质生活远不如美国。（那时哪知道会有今天！）现在的风险就是竞争激烈机会少。但如果找到一个说服自己的理由，归不归就是一念之间的事，没什么大不了。对于在哪里成功的几会多，我知道不多。 但只少45-55岁，在中国医学界算得上人物的，95%是海归。
beida?
你很冰雪呀。
所以说要看心态啊！回国当然是要付risk premium的啊。不过这跟年代无关。90年代海龟风险就是要承受物质生活远不如美国。（那时哪知道会有今天！）现在的风险就是竞争激烈机会少。但如果找到一个说服自己的理由，归不归就是一念之间的事，没什么大不了。对于在哪里成功的几会多，我知道不多。 但只少45-55岁，在中国医学界算得上人物的，95%是海归。
这个年纪的海归回去的早。
所以说要看心态啊！回国当然是要付risk premium的啊。不过这跟年代无关。90年代海龟风险就是要承受物质生活远不如美国。（那时哪知道会有今天！）现在的风险就是竞争激烈机会少。但如果找到一个说服自己的理由，归不归就是一念之间的事，没什么大不了。对于在哪里成功的几会多，我知道不多。 但只少45-55岁，在中国医学界算得上人物的，95%是海归。
是呀，我记得我们家以前还去出国人员服务部去买大件电器呢。那个时候，从国外拿个什么回来都新鲜。
所以说要看心态啊！回国当然是要付risk premium的啊。不过这跟年代无关。90年代海龟风险就是要承受物质生活远不如美国。（那时哪知道会有今天！）现在的风险就是竞争激烈机会少。但如果找到一个说服自己的理由，归不归就是一念之间的事，没什么大不了。对于在哪里成功的几会多，我知道不多。 但只少45-55岁，在中国医学界算得上人物的，95%是海归。
正是因为他们不知道有今天，所以才会有今天，要使他们早知道有今天，说不定就没有今天了。不是抬杠啊，医学界我不清楚，你说的是中国医学界，那世界医学界呢？反正我是觉得人人都觉得自己可以大展宏图的时候，就是人人都难以大展宏图的时候。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:37:49编辑过]
你很冰雪呀。
你刚才不是提到你一个伯伯是北大的嘛，你父亲又是京官，推理出来应该不难。
而机会是无法用收入多少来衡量的.
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-17 17:13:19编辑过]
re...............
Steve Jobs' Speech
I am honored to be with you today at your commencement from one of the
finest universities in the world. I never graduated from college. Truth be
told, this is the closest I've ever gotten to a college graduation. Today I
want to tell you three stories from my life. That's it. No big deal. Just
three stories.
The first story is about connecting the dots.
I dropped out of Reed College after the first 6 months, but then stayed
around as a drop-in for another 18 months or so before I really quit. So why
did I drop out?
It started before I was born. My biological mother was a young, unwed
college graduate student, and she decided to put me up for adoption. She
felt very strongly that I should be adopted by college graduates, so
everything was all set for me to be adopted at birth by a lawyer and his
wife. Except that when I popped out they decided at the last minute that
they really wanted a girl. So my parents, who were on a waiting list, got a
call in the middle of the night asking: "We have an unexpected baby boy; do
you want him?" They said: "Of course." My biological mother later found out
that my mother had never graduated from college and that my father had never
graduated from high school. She refused to sign the final adoption papers.
She only relented a few months later when my parents promised that I would
someday go to college.
And 17 years later I did go to college. But I naively chose a college that
was almost as expensive as Stanford, and all of my working-class parents'
savings were being spent on my college tuition. After six months, I couldn't
see the value in it. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life and no
idea how college was going to help me figure it out. And here I was spending
all of the money my parents had saved their entire life. So I decided to
drop out and trust that it would all work out OK. It was pretty scary at the
time, but looking back it was one of the best decisions I ever made. The
minute I dropped out I could stop taking the required classes that didn't
interest me, and begin dropping in on the ones that looked interesting.
It wasn't all romantic. I didn't have a dorm room, so I slept on the floor
in friends' rooms, I returned coke bottles for the 5￠ deposits to buy
food with, and I would walk the 7 miles across town every Sunday night to
get one good meal a week at the Hare Krishna temple. I loved it. And much of
what I stumbled into by following my curiosity and intuition turned out to
be priceless later on. Let me give you one example:
Reed College at that time offered perhaps the best calligraphy instruction
in the country. Throughout the campus every poster, every label on every
drawer, was beautifully hand calligraphed. Because I had dropped out and
didn't have to take the normal classes, I decided to take a calligraphy
class to learn how to do this. I learned about serif and san serif typefaces
, about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations,
about what makes great typography great. It was beautiful, historical,
artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I found it
fascinating.
None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life. But
ten years later, when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all
came back to me. And we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first
computer with beautiful typography. If I had never dropped in on that single
course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or
proportionally spaced fonts. And since Windows just copied the Mac, its
likely that no personal computer would have them. If I had never dropped out
, I would have never dropped in on this calligraphy class, and personal
computers might not have the wonderful typography that they do. Of course it
was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college.
But it was very, very clear looking backwards ten years later.
Again, you can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them
looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect
in your future. You have to trust in something — your gut, destiny, life,
karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all
the difference in my life.
My second story is about love and loss.
I was lucky — I found what I loved to do early in life. Woz and I started
Apple in my parents garage when I was 20. We worked hard, and in 10 years
Apple had grown from just the two of us in a garage into a $2 billion
company with over 4000 employees. We had just released our finest creation
— the Macintosh — a year earlier, and I had just turned 30. And then I got
fired. How can you get fired from a company you started? Well, as Apple
grew we hired someone who I thought was very talented to run the company
with me, and for the first year or so things went well. But then our visions
of the future began to diverge and eventually we had a falling out. When we
did, our Board of Directors sided with him. So at 30 I was out. And very
publicly out. What had been the focus of my entire adult life was gone, and
it was devastating.
I really didn't know what to do for a few months. I felt that I had let the
previous generation of entrepreneurs down - that I had dropped the baton as
it was being passed to me. I met with David Packard and Bob Noyce and tried
to apologize for screwing up so badly. I was a very public failure, and I
even thought about running away from the valley. But something slowly began
to dawn on me — I still loved what I did. The turn of events at Apple had
not changed that one bit. I had been rejected, but I was still in love. And
so I decided to start over.
I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting fired from Apple was
the best thing that could have ever happened to me. The heaviness of being
successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner again, less
sure about everything. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods
of my life.
During the next five years, I started a company named NeXT, another company
named Pixar, and fell in love with an amazing woman who would become my wife
. Pixar went on to create the worlds first computer animated feature film,
Toy Story, and is now the most successful animation studio in the world. In
a remarkable turn of events, Apple bought NeXT, I returned to Apple, and the
technology we developed at NeXT is at the heart of Apple's current
renaissance. And Laurene and I have a wonderful family together.
I'm pretty sure none of this would have happened if I hadn't been fired from
Apple. It was awful tasting medicine, but I guess the patient needed it.
Sometimes life hits you in the head with a brick. Don't lose faith. I'm
convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did
. You've got to find what you love. And that is as true for your work as it
is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life,
and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great
work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven
't found it yet, keep looking. Don't settle. As with all matters of the
heart, you'll know when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it
just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking until you
find it. Don't settle.
My third story is about death.
When I was 17, I read a quote that went something like: "If you live each
day as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right." It made
an impression on me, and since then, for the past 33 years, I have looked
in the mirror every morning and asked myself: "If today were the last day of
my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the
answer has been "No" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change
something.
Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever
encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost
everything — all external expectations, all pride, all fear of
embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death,
leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die
is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to
lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.
About a year ago I was diagnosed with cancer. I had a scan at 7:30 in the
morning, and it clearly showed a tumor on my pancreas. I didn't even know
what a pancreas was. The doctors told me this was almost certainly a type of
cancer that is incurable, and that I should expect to live no longer than
three to six months. My doctor advised me to go home and get my affairs in
order, which is doctor's code for prepare to die. It means to try to tell
your kids everything you thought you'd have the next 10 years to tell them
in just a few months. It means to make sure everything is buttoned up so
that it will be as easy as possible for your family. It means to say your
goodbyes.
I lived with that diagnosis all day. Later that evening I had a biopsy,
where they stuck an endoscope down my throat, through my stomach and into my
intestines, put a needle into my pancreas and got a few cells from the
tumor. I was sedated, but my wife, who was there, told me that when they
viewed the cells under a microscope the doctors started crying because it
turned out to be a very rare form of pancreatic cancer that is curable with
surgery. I had the surgery and I'm fine now.
This was the closest I've been to facing death, and I hope its the closest I
get for a few more decades. Having lived through it, I can now say this to
you with a bit more certainty than when death was a useful but purely
intellectual concept:
No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die
to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever
escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the
single best invention of Life. It is Life's change agent. It clears out the
old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too
long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry
to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.
Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be
trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people's
thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner
voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and
intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become.
Everything else is secondary.
When I was young, there was an amazing publication called The Whole Earth
Catalog, which was one of the bibles of my generation. It was created by a
fellow named Stewart Brand not far from here in Menlo Park, and he brought
it to life with his poetic touch. This was in the late 1960's, before
personal computers and desktop publishing, so it was all made with
typewriters, scissors, and polaroid cameras. It was sort of like Google in
paperback form, 35 years before Google came along: it was idealistic, and
overflowing with neat tools and great notions.
Stewart and his team put out several issues of The Whole Earth Catalog, and
then when it had run its course, they put out a final issue. It was the mid-
1970s, and I was your age. On the back cover of their final issue was a
photograph of an early morning country road, the kind you might find
yourself hitchhiking on if you were so adventurous. Beneath it were the
words: "Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish." It was their farewell message as they
signed off. Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish. And I have always wished that for
myself. And now, as you graduate to begin anew, I wish that for you.
Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish.
Thank you all very much.
You've got to find what you love,'
This is the text of the Commencement address by Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple
Computer and of Pixar Animation Studios, delivered on June 12, 2005.
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:48:43编辑过]
但只少45-55岁，在中国医学界算得上人物的，95%是海归。
医学是个特例。
我所知的，中国医生来美国，做研究的多，最好的机会也就让跟在美国医生后面看看，是没有真正的hand-on clinical experience。
外国医生想在美国行医，必须通过美国的考试。申请住院医很难，得有美国医院接收你做三年以上的住院医。
45-55岁，真的基本不会有美国医院接收住院医，太老了，除了个别专业。住院医都喜欢年轻的。
喜欢临床的，海归也就正常得很。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:53:26编辑过]
Steve Jobs在斯坦福的讲话。
刚刚读完，多谢楼主妹妹转贴。
不是抬杠啊，医学界我不清楚，你说的是中国医学界，那世界医学界呢？ 世界医学界最终无非还是看成果，不分国界。我说的是海龟MD比留美的中国MD相对容易得到认可，荣誉。而且配备的实验资源，资金如今也特别丰富。当然我这么说也还是片面，我只是说我熟悉的某个领域。在美国同等领域要出名太难，也可能美国能人太多了。我也不是在抬杠啊，MM。
mm说得很专业，赞一个。就是护士什么都没查过所以担心，医院当晚确实没有专科医生。第二天约专科，据她说还是等了很久，后来她眼睛就发炎了，一个月看不了书。
所以我才奇怪到底怎么判定紧急情况，要不下次象前面几个mm说的，说肚子痛
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 18:26:38编辑过]
chest pain才是最紧急的complain吧？
不过随意捏造，不知道会有啥后果泥？
我有两次去ER，一次6小时，一次从半夜3点到下午1点，mmd
实在对这边的医疗体制失望透了
加拿大因为是公费医疗，情况比美国严重多了，当然我们看病也不花钱
医学是个特例。
我所知的，中国医生来美国，做研究的多，最好的机会也就让跟在美国医生后面看看，是没有真正的hand-on clinical experience。
外国医生想在美国行医，必须通过美国的考试。申请住院医很难，得有美国医院接收你做三年以上的住院医。
45-55岁，真的基本不会有美国医院接收住院医，太老了，除了病理专业。
海归也就正常得很。
中国的MD是必须要有research experience 才能晋升。所以我说的留在美国的MD只能做research, 而回中国的MD既可以临床，也要同时做research. 这不局限在病理，很多专业像心内，泌尿等等最终都是要有人做research的。我说的是留在美国的MD很难像海龟那样出人头地， 当然也有成功的。
我个人找工作的时候也研究了一把。觉得high pay又不那么辛苦的工作是很少的，而且基本招人不多，进去门槛很高，其实并不是做的对社会很有价值的事情。我的感觉是，一群聪明人，给自己创造出来的拿高薪的机会。
re...................
这是一个mm要的steve jobs的讲话，我插播一下，大家不要管我，继续讨论。
Steve Jobs' Speech
I am honored to be with you today at your commencement from one of the
finest universities in the world. I never graduated from college. Truth be
told, this is the closest I've ever gotten to a college graduation. Today I
want to tell you three stories from my life. That's it. No big deal. Just
three stories.
The first story is about connecting the dots.
I dropped out of Reed College after the first 6 months, but then stayed
around as a drop-in for another 18 months or so before I really quit. So why
did I drop out?
It started before I was born. My biological mother was a young, unwed
college graduate student, and she decided to put me up for adoption. She
felt very strongly that I should be adopted by college graduates, so
everything was all set for me to be adopted at birth by a lawyer and his
wife. Except that when I popped out they decided at the last minute that
they really wanted a girl. So my parents, who were on a waiting list, got a
call in the middle of the night asking: "We have an unexpected baby boy; do
you want him?" They said: "Of course." My biological mother later found out
that my mother had never graduated from college and that my father had never
graduated from high school. She refused to sign the final adoption papers.
She only relented a few months later when my parents promised that I would
someday go to college.
And 17 years later I did go to college. But I naively chose a college that
was almost as expensive as Stanford, and all of my working-class parents'
savings were being spent on my college tuition. After six months, I couldn't
see the value in it. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life and no
idea how college was going to help me figure it out. And here I was spending
all of the money my parents had saved their entire life. So I decided to
drop out and trust that it would all work out OK. It was pretty scary at the
time, but looking back it was one of the best decisions I ever made. The
minute I dropped out I could stop taking the required classes that didn't
interest me, and begin dropping in on the ones that looked interesting.
It wasn't all romantic. I didn't have a dorm room, so I slept on the floor
in friends' rooms, I returned coke bottles for the 5￠ deposits to buy
food with, and I would walk the 7 miles across town every Sunday night to
get one good meal a week at the Hare Krishna temple. I loved it. And much of
what I stumbled into by following my curiosity and intuition turned out to
be priceless later on. Let me give you one example:
Reed College at that time offered perhaps the best calligraphy instruction
in the country. Throughout the campus every poster, every label on every
drawer, was beautifully hand calligraphed. Because I had dropped out and
didn't have to take the normal classes, I decided to take a calligraphy
class to learn how to do this. I learned about serif and san serif typefaces
, about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations,
about what makes great typography great. It was beautiful, historical,
artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I found it
fascinating.
None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life. But
ten years later, when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all
came back to me. And we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first
computer with beautiful typography. If I had never dropped in on that single
course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or
proportionally spaced fonts. And since Windows just copied the Mac, its
likely that no personal computer would have them. If I had never dropped out
, I would have never dropped in on this calligraphy class, and personal
computers might not have the wonderful typography that they do. Of course it
was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college.
But it was very, very clear looking backwards ten years later.
Again, you can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them
looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect
in your future. You have to trust in something — your gut, destiny, life,
karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all
the difference in my life.
My second story is about love and loss.
I was lucky — I found what I loved to do early in life. Woz and I started
Apple in my parents garage when I was 20. We worked hard, and in 10 years
Apple had grown from just the two of us in a garage into a $2 billion
company with over 4000 employees. We had just released our finest creation
— the Macintosh — a year earlier, and I had just turned 30. And then I got
fired. How can you get fired from a company you started? Well, as Apple
grew we hired someone who I thought was very talented to run the company
with me, and for the first year or so things went well. But then our visions
of the future began to diverge and eventually we had a falling out. When we
did, our Board of Directors sided with him. So at 30 I was out. And very
publicly out. What had been the focus of my entire adult life was gone, and
it was devastating.
I really didn't know what to do for a few months. I felt that I had let the
previous generation of entrepreneurs down - that I had dropped the baton as
it was being passed to me. I met with David Packard and Bob Noyce and tried
to apologize for screwing up so badly. I was a very public failure, and I
even thought about running away from the valley. But something slowly began
to dawn on me — I still loved what I did. The turn of events at Apple had
not changed that one bit. I had been rejected, but I was still in love. And
so I decided to start over.
I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting fired from Apple was
the best thing that could have ever happened to me. The heaviness of being
successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner again, less
sure about everything. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods
of my life.
During the next five years, I started a company named NeXT, another company
named Pixar, and fell in love with an amazing woman who would become my wife
. Pixar went on to create the worlds first computer animated feature film,
Toy Story, and is now the most successful animation studio in the world. In
a remarkable turn of events, Apple bought NeXT, I returned to Apple, and the
technology we developed at NeXT is at the heart of Apple's current
renaissance. And Laurene and I have a wonderful family together.
I'm pretty sure none of this would have happened if I hadn't been fired from
Apple. It was awful tasting medicine, but I guess the patient needed it.
Sometimes life hits you in the head with a brick. Don't lose faith. I'm
convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did
. You've got to find what you love. And that is as true for your work as it
is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life,
and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great
work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven
't found it yet, keep looking. Don't settle. As with all matters of the
heart, you'll know when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it
just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking until you
find it. Don't settle.
My third story is about death.
When I was 17, I read a quote that went something like: "If you live each
day as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right." It made
an impression on me, and since then, for the past 33 years, I have looked
in the mirror every morning and asked myself: "If today were the last day of
my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the
answer has been "No" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change
something.
Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever
encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost
everything — all external expectations, all pride, all fear of
embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death,
leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die
is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to
lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.
About a year ago I was diagnosed with cancer. I had a scan at 7:30 in the
morning, and it clearly showed a tumor on my pancreas. I didn't even know
what a pancreas was. The doctors told me this was almost certainly a type of
cancer that is incurable, and that I should expect to live no longer than
three to six months. My doctor advised me to go home and get my affairs in
order, which is doctor's code for prepare to die. It means to try to tell
your kids everything you thought you'd have the next 10 years to tell them
in just a few months. It means to make sure everything is buttoned up so
that it will be as easy as possible for your family. It means to say your
goodbyes.
I lived with that diagnosis all day. Later that evening I had a biopsy,
where they stuck an endoscope down my throat, through my stomach and into my
intestines, put a needle into my pancreas and got a few cells from the
tumor. I was sedated, but my wife, who was there, told me that when they
viewed the cells under a microscope the doctors started crying because it
turned out to be a very rare form of pancreatic cancer that is curable with
surgery. I had the surgery and I'm fine now.
This was the closest I've been to facing death, and I hope its the closest I
get for a few more decades. Having lived through it, I can now say this to
you with a bit more certainty than when death was a useful but purely
intellectual concept:
No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die
to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever
escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the
single best invention of Life. It is Life's change agent. It clears out the
old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too
long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry
to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.
Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be
trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people's
thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner
voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and
intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become.
Everything else is secondary.
When I was young, there was an amazing publication called The Whole Earth
Catalog, which was one of the bibles of my generation. It was created by a
fellow named Stewart Brand not far from here in Menlo Park, and he brought
it to life with his poetic touch. This was in the late 1960's, before
personal computers and desktop publishing, so it was all made with
typewriters, scissors, and polaroid cameras. It was sort of like Google in
paperback form, 35 years before Google came along: it was idealistic, and
overflowing with neat tools and great notions.
Stewart and his team put out several issues of The Whole Earth Catalog, and
then when it had run its course, they put out a final issue. It was the mid-
1970s, and I was your age. On the back cover of their final issue was a
photograph of an early morning country road, the kind you might find
yourself hitchhiking on if you were so adventurous. Beneath it were the
words: "Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish." It was their farewell message as they
signed off. Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish. And I have always wished that for
myself. And now, as you graduate to begin anew, I wish that for you.
Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish.
Thank you all very much.
You've got to find what you love,'
This is the text of the Commencement address by Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple
Computer and of Pixar Animation Studios, delivered on June 12, 2005.
多谢楼主，嘻嘻
那是当然，这个还用你三番五次的强调吗？
不过如果我要是选择为了赚钱叫人家亲爹，也要竞业点，不要前脚人家给了钱塞到兜里，后脚就急着撇清关系说人家脏，人家要不脏你能赚到吗？
真清高就别跟这种人打交道别赚人家的钱，那谁都敬佩您。您那么财大气粗，又不是没的选了。
垃圾筒是脏，苍蝇整天盯着垃圾筒嗡嗡嗡舍不得走，一边还跟人说垃圾筒脏。真是奇妙的心态。
===============================================================
还有这个 ：我实在不明白你是什么意思，我并没有跟你开玩笑。我说2000块的意思是打个比方，就好象我手里有2000块相当于白手起家了，在美国是不是也可以象你说的那样走正经渠道赚大钱。是不是已经到了你说的足够的钱，还是要到多少钱？
看你这些回复，我真佩服您的想象力和理解力，什么都能理解到那件事上，是不是那已经对您是家常便饭了？
以下是引用ybzh在2009-4-22 16:16:00的发言：
你错了。中国的任何赚钱的机会都需要走某种意义上的非正规渠道，而美国只要是有足够的钱就可以放心大胆地走正经渠道。 以下是引用iilovecat在2009-4-22 16:21:00的发言：
这是一种什么样的门槛，我现在有2000块钱，可以么？
====================================================================
以下是引用ybzh在2009-4-22 16:26:00的发言：
2000美元吗？我可以找个美国老头陪你一晚，也算渠道了。
PS：别介意啊，既然you started the joking part...
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:01:52编辑过]
来安慰一下mm，他好像比较敏感，灌灌水说着说着不知怎么就跳起来人身攻击了。摸摸~~
那是，我得给我的客户和官员们埋单嘛。不过，还有一个趋势可能华人上的MM们最不愿意看到的就是小三市场的充分发展，这个得从供需两方面分析：一个是国内的很多商人和官员已经多少厌倦了找小姐（出于安全、卫生等等原因吧），另外国内就业市场的严峻也催生了一批业余小三的诞生。为什么叫业余小三呢，因为不少年轻女性因为就业的艰难而愿意充当某些商人或者官员的二奶，而双方又有默契，那就是女方可以继续找男友甚至有男友，而男方在每月为女方提供一定经济援助的基础上不会选择离婚。有句话对这个现象形容的比较有意思：因为餐馆的猪肉吃着不放心，所以自己需要养头猪。
如果这是真的，我觉得国内的男生更不愿意看到这个现象。本来就是男比女多，难得找到个女朋友，还不知道有多清白。
作为大奶，当然不愿意看着小三这么欣欣向荣了。可能你觉得我的想法挺可笑的，我一直不理解的是，sleep around有意思吗？贪那么多钱有意思吗？按理说，那些官员拿着工资，再加上福利，本来过得挺舒服的，何必搞违法犯罪弄得自己担惊受怕呢？而且把自己的大好前程也给毁了。其实贪的钱再多，没花出去也不算自己享受了吧？
这个和风气有关系。
而且中国发展太快，精神文明跟不上物质文明，人的思想状态容易迷失。
进来溜一眼, 这贴后来怎么变成这样了.
不好意思，我们歪楼了。
不好意思，我们歪楼了。
哦, 那到不是. 我觉得那位男生有点太信口开河了.
楼主mm是不是已经定下来一定归了? 羡慕啊，那么好的offer。
我说的底层的人现在变得难了，是相对我自己当年来说。你知不知道现在很多穷人家的孩子面对先富起来的这部分人的孩子竞争有多难。从前至少在我上高中的时候，城乡差距相对小，只要你学习好，你就能上大学，而且上很好的大学时没问题的。现在什么情况你知道么，因为市场竞争的关系，好的老师都集中在发达地区，大城市，很多基层好的老师都出逃，基层的教育越来越差。农村孩子不但输在起跑线，而且一路输，到了高考就算你考上了还要面对高额的学费生活费，虽然国家有贷款，但是现在大学生就业那么差，很多人根本不敢读这个大学，直接打工了。我们老家是广东的，亲戚朋友在教育线上的在广州以及珠三角各地的都有，所以城乡的情况我都了解。广东在全国来说已经算是比较先进的了，现在基础教育也不要钱，可是架不住老师们都往好地方跑啊。跟我当年的过独木桥的情况相比，现在的情况对底层的人来说，恶化了不是一点半点。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 20:08:27编辑过]
确实现在大学生中农村生源少了，这个跟教育资源倾斜，大学自费以及大学生就业难有关。但是，你要看到目前很多措施也在努力改善这个局面。比如说彻底实现九年制义务教育，杜绝乱收费之类的，好的公立中小学比以前花费小多了，只要你分数够。再比如说全国建高铁，带动大城市附近的城镇农村进什么三小时经济圈，农村医保，取消农业税，电器下乡等等等等，这些都是会缩小城乡差距的，只是需要时间。发展农村不是仅仅口号而已，已经在做了。
确实现在大学生中农村生源少了，这个跟教育资源倾斜，大学自费以及大学生就业难有关。但是，你要看到目前很多措施也在努力改善这个局面。比如说彻底实现九年制义务教育，杜绝乱收费之类的，好的公立中小学比以前花费小多了，只要你分数够。再比如说全国建高铁，带动大城市附近的城镇农村进什么三小时经济圈，农村医保，取消农业税，电器下乡等等等等，这些都是会缩小城乡差距的，只是需要时间。发展农村不是仅仅口号而已，已经在做了。
看来这个mm很了解农村的发展呢。我们家在城市，所以对农村不太了解。我以后想暑假带着我的孩子回国，最好可以去农村义务教教英语，或者跟当地的孩子聊聊天，让他们知道外面的世界也好呀。mm觉得我的想法可行吗？
看来这个mm很了解农村的发展呢。我们家在城市，所以对农村不太了解。我以后想暑假带着我的孩子回国，最好可以去农村义务教教英语，或者跟当地的孩子聊聊天，让他们知道外面的世界也好呀。mm觉得我的想法可行吗？
没有啦，俺也是城市人，不然可以弄个热门的农村户口。只是爱读新闻什么的，老家一带农村亲戚也确实过得不错。你的想法当然好啦。支持一下。
确实现在大学生中农村生源少了，这个跟教育资源倾斜，大学自费以及大学生就业难有关。但是，你要看到目前很多措施也在努力改善这个局面。比如说彻底实现九年制义务教育，杜绝乱收费之类的，好的公立中小学比以前花费小多了，只要你分数够。再比如说全国建高铁，带动大城市附近的城镇农村进什么三小时经济圈，农村医保，取消农业税，电器下乡等等等等，这些都是会缩小城乡差距的，只是需要时间。发展农村不是仅仅口号而已，已经在做了。
我也知道现在上学时不要钱了，我看到最大的问题是，那些孩子根本没有好的老师来教他们，以前老毛把知识分子下乡为农村带去了很多生产力，小地方很多好的老师都是知青，所以那些孩子都有希望，我绝不是说文革时对的，只是说一个社会现实。现在不太一样了，老师们都自由来去，公立学校好多师源流到了私立中学，小学去，那些都是有钱才能上的学校，这也无可厚非，老师们也要提高自己的收入，这样一来就是政府的责任了，因为政府没有投入足够的资源来维持公立学校，尤其是经济不发达地区的的教学质量。现在很多政策对这些地区发展都是很好的，我也希望在短期内看到这些方面有大的进步，不过我担忧的是彻底的资本化另国内资源倾斜太厉害，希望可以尽量平衡一点。
我也知道现在上学时不要钱了，我看到最大的问题是，那些孩子根本没有好的老师来教他们，以前老毛把知识分子下乡为农村带去了很多生产力，小地方很多好的老师都是知青，所以那些孩子都有希望，我绝不是说文革时对的，只是说一个社会现实。现在不太一样了，老师们都自由来去，公立学校好多师源流到了私立中学，小学去，那些都是有钱才能上的学校，这也无可厚非，老师们也要提高自己的收入，这样一来就是政府的责任了，因为政府没有投入足够的资源来维持公立学校，尤其是经济不发达地区的的教学质量。现在很多政策对这些地区发展都是很好的，我也希望在短期内看到这些方面有大的进步，不过我担忧的是彻底的资本化另国内资源倾斜太厉害，希望可以尽量平衡一点。
我同意你说的这个现况，但我同时看好将来5-10年的这些状况的很大改善（由现在这些措施来看）。另外，我了解到的“公立学校好多师源流到了私立中学”在我的家乡城市并非如此。最好的学校依然是公立，据说是因为薪资福利或者退休金待遇的原因。
我同意你说的这个现况，但我同时看好将来5-10年的这些状况的很大改善（由现在这些措施来看）。另外，我了解到的“公立学校好多师源流到了私立中学”在我的家乡城市并非如此。最好的学校依然是公立，据说是因为薪资福利或者退休金待遇的原因。
怎么说呢，如果是完全公私分开还好，我知道有些地方把公立学校私有化，老师编制还是公立，但是学校就变成了私立，要交赞助费才能上，然后学校的收入当地的教育部门也瓜分，这就是所谓的教育产业化。我最痛恨看到的。变相剥夺了底层孩子的机会。
怎么说呢，如果是完全公私分开还好，我知道有些地方把公立学校私有化，老师编制还是公立，但是学校就变成了私立，要交赞助费才能上，然后学校的收入当地的教育部门也瓜分，这就是所谓的教育产业化。我最痛恨看到的。变相剥夺了底层孩子的机会。
Yes. This is really really bad.
怎么说呢，如果是完全公私分开还好，我知道有些地方把公立学校私有化，老师编制还是公立，但是学校就变成了私立，要交赞助费才能上，然后学校的收入当地的教育部门也瓜分，这就是所谓的教育产业化。我最痛恨看到的。变相剥夺了底层孩子的机会。
我们那里的省重点、市重点一直都是最好的学校，私立中学没什么人气。分数是绝对的第一，走关系必须分数在很小的差距以内，多了交钱都没用，因为要确保升学率。公立学校师资非常好，一般老师想进都进不去。当然我不知道这是不是片面现象。
我们那里的省重点、市重点一直都是最好的学校，私立中学没什么人气。分数是绝对的第一，走关系必须分数在很小的差距以内，多了交钱都没用，因为要确保升学率。公立学校师资非常好，一般老师想进都进不去。当然我不知道这是不是片面现象。
你说的这个应该还是主流，但是我说的是新的趋势，也许是我观念跟不上了，不过我对教育产业化是比较持反面意见的。
很多在美国的留学生背景（尤其是在国内工作经验少的）的人都可能会觉得这个场景有些难以置信，一般需要有相对丰富国内工作经验的人才会清楚。不过在国内这是很一般的情况了，比这狠的多了去了。
大叔同志, 我这个大妈劝你一句, 你在这儿较真没啥用.
你要考虑到一般能够考试拿到全奖来美留学的是个什么样的群体. 这个POOL 里很多人在学校是两耳不闻窗外事的好学生, 在家里眼里是听话的好孩子, 国内毕业很多几乎没有工作过. 这样的人一直生活在象牙塔里, 完全的理想主义, 很多人有着改变世界的万丈雄心.
你现在和他们说外面艰险, 社会丑陋, 没有用的.
而且我发现很多MS 征求别人意见的人, 实际上内心深处不是要多听多想, 不是要综合不同声音来思考衡量决策, 而是上来寻求相同意见者, 以为别人和自己想法相同就说明自己的想法是对的, 用来REINFORCE 自己的想法的. 说深了, 还是对自己不自信, 上来以寻求意见的方式印证自己的想法, 来增加信心.
我的一个朋友就这样, 我是最近才意识到这点. 她最近做了一个在我看来IMPLICATION 很大的决定, 我作为朋友竭力反对, 她差点和我翻脸. 我后来才意识到她只是SELECTIVELY 接受别人的看法, 因为那些人的看法和她相同. 知道她只是寻求一致的声音来印征她自己的想法, 我以后也不会那么认真了. 我劝你也算了哈.
大叔同志, 我这个大妈劝你一句, 你在这儿较真没啥用.
你要考虑到一般能够考试拿到全奖来美留学的是个什么样的群体. 这个pool 里很多人在学校是两耳不闻窗外事的好学生, 在家里眼里是听话的好孩子, 国内毕业很多几乎没有工作过. 这样的人一直生活在象牙塔里, 完全的理想主义, 很多人有着改变世界的万丈雄心.
你现在和他们说外面艰险, 社会丑陋, 没有用的.
而且我发现很多ms 征求别人意见的人, 实际上内心深处不是要多听多想, 不是要综合不同声音来思考衡量决策, 而是上来寻求相同意见者, 以为别人和自己想法相同就说明自己的想法是对的, 用来reinforce 自己的想法的. 说深了, 还是对自己不自信, 上来以寻求意见的方式印证自己的想法, 来增加信心.
我的一个朋友就这样, 我是最近才意识到这点. 她最近做了一个在我看来implication 很大的决定, 我作为朋友竭力反对, 她差点和我翻脸. 我后来才意识到她只是selectively 接受别人的看法, 因为那些人的看法和她相同. 知道她只是寻求一致的声音来印征她自己的想法, 我以后也不会那么认真了. 我劝你也算了哈.
姐姐看看我应该回去么？
http://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.aspx?boardid=331&topicid=575999&replyid=&skin=1
姐姐看看我应该回去么？
http://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.aspx?boardid=331&topicid=575999&replyid=&skin=1
mm,我没有那位姐姐那么懂行，不过我觉得你回去挺好的。
大叔同志, 我这个大妈劝你一句, 你在这儿较真没啥用.
你要考虑到一般能够考试拿到全奖来美留学的是个什么样的群体. 这个POOL 里很多人在学校是两耳不闻窗外事的好学生, 在家里眼里是听话的好孩子, 国内毕业很多几乎没有工作过. 这样的人一直生活在象牙塔里, 完全的理想主义, 很多人有着改变世界的万丈雄心.
=======================
Dharma mm,我也是这样的群体啊，不过并不影响我了解社会的另一面。
=============================
你现在和他们说外面艰险, 社会丑陋, 没有用的.
而且我发现很多MS 征求别人意见的人, 实际上内心深处不是要多听多想, 不是要综合不同声音来思考衡量决策, 而是上来寻求相同意见者, 以为别人和自己想法相同就说明自己的想法是对的, 用来REINFORCE 自己的想法的. 说深了, 还是对自己不自信, 上来以寻求意见的方式印证自己的想法, 来增加信心.
我的一个朋友就这样, 我是最近才意识到这点. 她最近做了一个在我看来IMPLICATION 很大的决定, 我作为朋友竭力反对, 她差点和我翻脸. 我后来才意识到她只是SELECTIVELY 接受别人的看法, 因为那些人的看法和她相同. 知道她只是寻求一致的声音来印征她自己的想法, 我以后也不会那么认真了. 我劝你也算了哈.
===================
I finally realized that lz mm was not here for suggestions and opinions as we thought, she was here to inform us that she was going back.
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-22 23:46:52编辑过]
mm,我没有那位姐姐那么懂行，不过我觉得你回去挺好的。
谢谢哈
我现在自己是一点想法都没有。。。
所以准备出去玩2个月再说。。。。。。
对，其实美国发财的机会挺多的，也看你是不是有心和敢不敢折腾，而且美国这边一旦能折腾起来的话钱比中国要好赚，不会有中国那么多不相关的干扰因素和障碍。很多人在美国就是给别人打工的，却总觉得自己回了国就可以换个人当当了，其实在美国不能和不敢折腾的人换个地方你还是你， 就更不用说回国所需要做的种种调整了。我觉得：既然选择来到美国学习和工作，如果将来准备回国的话，在美国的时候就好好珍惜这个机会，把美国搞懂吃透，英文尽量找机会加强，这样即使回去了也能让人觉得你确实在美国认真呆过；要不然的话就干脆别出来，在国内好好干，国内出国进修和商务考察的机会现在也不少，镀镀金的机会总是有的。
太同意了. 其实我在大学出来第一份工作外企打工的时候, 那时的老板就语重心长地对我说: 人有两种, 能够在大公司当ELITE 的, 能够自己做小老板的, 你要尽快搞清楚你是哪一种. 这么多年下来, 我早搞明白了, 我就是在大公司打工的命.
但即使这样, 我仍然觉得在美国打工少了很多那种在国内的干扰因素, 仍然喜欢美国职场相对单纯的环境. 美国这边就是在公司内部调动个工作, 尤其是到了一定级别的工作, 公司内部网根本不POST, 一点没有关系也不行. 但至少这个游戏, 大家都是按牌理出牌的, 不会太过分. 你要是个阿斗, TRACK RECORD 不好, 你也上不了马. 所以我说, 美国这边, 你的命运和发展至少一定程度上在自己的掌握之中的. 而我在国内, 家里没有背景可以依靠, 我觉得很多事情即使再努力, 也可能会OUT OF MY CONTROL, 所以国内的环境给我最大的CONCERN 是没有安全感.
这里的JM, 可以问问国内MS 发展的人, 他们心里有安全感吗? 如果有为什么有钱以后纷纷把LP 孩子送到国外, 还要拿个身份?
我的高中同学的LG, 当年是深圳发展初期发家的那批, 15年前就身家几百上千万了. 当时发家也是因为公司挂靠在一个有军方背景的公司里, 借了不少便利. 10年前因为她LG 的哥哥没有处理好如何和军方背景深的人物分钱, 被以一个罪名投入大狱. 她LG 和家人散了很多钱财托了很多关系, 过了好几年, 才把人捞出来. 这其间, 有很长一段时间, 她LG 不敢回深圳, 在新西兰躲着. 现在我同学和他LG 在上海有个小公司, 看起来情况一般, 要不豪华大房子早买了. 现在他们的生活, 我看还比不上当年在深圳.
说实话, 很多人在这边混得一般, 觉得回去就如何, 实际上就是一个借口.
既然英文不好, 为什么不努力提高? 美国人也不是所有的人的COMMUNICATION SKILLS 好的, 英文说的和写的很烂的人不要太多. 但是我看到我周围的很多中国人进公司那么多年, 下班看中文电视, 中文DVD, 很少阅读工作以外的英文东西, 也总是在LOCAL 的中国人圈子里转, 英文怎么能提高? 思维方式也不改变, 对美国文化也了解有限, 肚子里再有饺子, 不能很好的倒出来, 人家又怎能给你机会?
拍个照，5555。
太同意了. 其实我在大学出来第一份工作外企打工的时候, 那时的老板就语重心长地对我说: 人有两种, 能够在大公司当ELITE 的, 能够自己做小老板的, 你要尽快搞清楚你是哪一种. 这么多年下来, 我早搞明白了, 我就是在大公司打工的命.
但即使这样, 我仍然觉得在美国打工少了很多那种在国内的干扰因素, 仍然喜欢美国职场相对单纯的环境. 美国这边就是在公司内部调动个工作, 尤其是到了一定级别的工作, 公司内部网根本不POST, 一点没有关系也不行. 但至少这个游戏, 大家都是按牌理出牌的, 不会太过分. 你要是个阿斗, TRACK RECORD 不好, 你也上不了马. 所以我说, 美国这边, 你的命运和发展至少一定程度上在自己的掌握之中的. 而我在国内, 家里没有背景可以依靠, 我觉得很多事情即使再努力, 也可能会OUT OF MY CONTROL, 所以国内的环境给我最大的CONCERN 是没有安全感.
这里的JM, 可以问问国内MS 发展的人, 他们心里有安全感吗? 如果有为什么有钱以后纷纷把LP 孩子送到国外, 还要拿个身份?
我的高中同学的LG, 当年是深圳发展初期发家的那批, 15年前就身家几百上千万了. 当时发家也是因为公司挂靠在一个有军方背景的公司里, 借了不少便利. 10年前因为她LG 的哥哥没有处理好如何和军方背景深的人物分钱, 被以一个罪名投入大狱. 她LG 和家人散了很多钱财托了很多关系, 过了好几年, 才把人捞出来. 这其间, 有很长一段时间, 她LG 不敢回深圳, 在新西兰躲着. 现在我同学和他LG 在上海有个小公司, 看起来情况一般, 要不豪华大房子早买了. 现在他们的生活, 我看还比不上当年在深圳.
说实话, 很多人在这边混得一般, 觉得回去就如何, 实际上就是一个借口.
既然英文不好, 为什么不努力提高? 美国人也不是所有的人的COMMUNICATION SKILLS 好的, 英文说的和写的很烂的人不要太多. 但是我看到我周围的很多中国人进公司那么多年, 下班看中文电视, 中文DVD, 很少阅读工作以外的英文东西, 也总是在LOCAL 的中国人圈子里转, 英文怎么能提高? 思维方式也不改变, 对美国文化也了解有限, 肚子里再有饺子, 不能很好的倒出来, 人家又怎能给你机会?
辛苦了mm,说得很有道理。这个out of control 深得我心。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-23 0:13:04编辑过]
太频繁的飞来飞去也很累。记得有一年来回飞了15次，而且有一次是刚回美国的第二天就需要飞回去，当时哭的心都有。一年4到6回比较好。
so true
大叔同志, 我这个大妈劝你一句, 你在这儿较真没啥用.
你要考虑到一般能够考试拿到全奖来美留学的是个什么样的群体. 这个POOL 里很多人在学校是两耳不闻窗外事的好学生, 在家里眼里是听话的好孩子, 国内毕业很多几乎没有工作过. 这样的人一直生活在象牙塔里, 完全的理想主义, 很多人有着改变世界的万丈雄心.
你现在和他们说外面艰险, 社会丑陋, 没有用的.
而且我发现很多MS 征求别人意见的人, 实际上内心深处不是要多听多想, 不是要综合不同声音来思考衡量决策, 而是上来寻求相同意见者, 以为别人和自己想法相同就说明自己的想法是对的, 用来REINFORCE 自己的想法的. 说深了, 还是对自己不自信, 上来以寻求意见的方式印证自己的想法, 来增加信心.
我的一个朋友就这样, 我是最近才意识到这点. 她最近做了一个在我看来IMPLICATION 很大的决定, 我作为朋友竭力反对, 她差点和我翻脸. 我后来才意识到她只是SELECTIVELY 接受别人的看法, 因为那些人的看法和她相同. 知道她只是寻求一致的声音来印征她自己的想法, 我以后也不会那么认真了. 我劝你也算了哈.
我想我还多少明白楼主上来“征求意见”的目的吧，所以我会反复强调她的问题不是绿卡的问题，而是心态的问题。如果还是同样心态的话，地理的转变我并不觉得会给她带来人生的转变和机遇。说实话，她听不听是一回事，我说不说又是另外一回事，而且我说的很多话未必是给她一个人听的（it's her loss if she does not listen），如果能对看这个帖子的任何人有一定的帮助我都会很高兴，有一个妹妹就给我私下发信感谢我的发言给她带来了一定的启示。否定自身努力的事情我会留给别人去做，我自己所需要做的就是努力，当然不单单是指这个帖子了，这是我做事的一贯原则。
楼主把Steve Jobs的讲话拿出来说话我觉得多少有些可笑，因为说实话我觉得她其实没有完全理解Jobs的意思，或者就是selectively地从字面上去寻找自己回去的理由吧。Steve says: stay hungry -> so LZ thinks: ok, follow my stomach; Steve says: stay foolish -> LZ figures: ok, ignore other people's contrary opinions. 上面这句话多少有些开玩笑了，不过其实道理就是那么回事，看大家怎么理解了。
太同意了. 其实我在大学出来第一份工作外企打工的时候, 那时的老板就语重心长地对我说: 人有两种, 能够在大公司当ELITE 的, 能够自己做小老板的, 你要尽快搞清楚你是哪一种. 这么多年下来, 我早搞明白了, 我就是在大公司打工的命.
但即使这样, 我仍然觉得在美国打工少了很多那种在国内的干扰因素, 仍然喜欢美国职场相对单纯的环境. 美国这边就是在公司内部调动个工作, 尤其是到了一定级别的工作, 公司内部网根本不POST, 一点没有关系也不行. 但至少这个游戏, 大家都是按牌理出牌的, 不会太过分. 你要是个阿斗, TRACK RECORD 不好, 你也上不了马. 所以我说, 美国这边, 你的命运和发展至少一定程度上在自己的掌握之中的. 而我在国内, 家里没有背景可以依靠, 我觉得很多事情即使再努力, 也可能会OUT OF MY CONTROL, 所以国内的环境给我最大的CONCERN 是没有安全感.
这里的JM, 可以问问国内MS 发展的人, 他们心里有安全感吗? 如果有为什么有钱以后纷纷把LP 孩子送到国外, 还要拿个身份?
我的高中同学的LG, 当年是深圳发展初期发家的那批, 15年前就身家几百上千万了. 当时发家也是因为公司挂靠在一个有军方背景的公司里, 借了不少便利. 10年前因为她LG 的哥哥没有处理好如何和军方背景深的人物分钱, 被以一个罪名投入大狱. 她LG 和家人散了很多钱财托了很多关系, 过了好几年, 才把人捞出来. 这其间, 有很长一段时间, 她LG 不敢回深圳, 在新西兰躲着. 现在我同学和他LG 在上海有个小公司, 看起来情况一般, 要不豪华大房子早买了. 现在他们的生活, 我看还比不上当年在深圳.
说实话, 很多人在这边混得一般, 觉得回去就如何, 实际上就是一个借口.
既然英文不好, 为什么不努力提高? 美国人也不是所有的人的COMMUNICATION SKILLS 好的, 英文说的和写的很烂的人不要太多. 但是我看到我周围的很多中国人进公司那么多年, 下班看中文电视, 中文DVD, 很少阅读工作以外的英文东西, 也总是在LOCAL 的中国人圈子里转, 英文怎么能提高? 思维方式也不改变, 对美国文化也了解有限, 肚子里再有饺子, 不能很好的倒出来, 人家又怎能给你机会?
Dharma mm讲得真好！
我想我还多少明白楼主上来“征求意见”的目的吧，所以我会反复强调她的问题不是绿卡的问题，而是心态的问题。如果还是同样心态的话，地理的转变我并不觉得会给她带来人生的转变和机遇。说实话，她听不听是一回事，我说不说又是另外一回事，而且我说的很多话未必是给她一个人听的（it's her loss if she does not listen），如果能对看这个帖子的任何人有一定的帮助我都会很高兴，有一个妹妹就给我私下发信感谢我的发言给她带来了一定的启示。否定自身努力的事情我会留给别人去做，我自己所需要做的就是努力，当然不单单是指这个帖子了，这是我做事的一贯原则。
楼主把Steve Jobs的讲话拿出来说话我觉得多少有些可笑，因为说实话我觉得她其实没有完全理解Jobs的意思，或者就是selectively地从字面上去寻找自己回去的理由吧。Steve says: stay hungry -> so LZ thinks: ok, follow my stomach; Steve says: stay foolish -> LZ figures: ok, ignore other people's contrary opinions. 上面这句话多少有些开玩笑了，不过其实道理就是那么回事，看大家怎么理解了。
steve job是天才型的人物,硅谷就折磨一个,好多想法真得不能用于普通人.
steve job是天才型的人物,硅谷就折磨一个,好多想法真得不能用于普通人.
没错。国内不少人都要拿Steve Jobs或者比尔盖茨这种极为罕见的特例说事，说什么上大学其实没有用什么的。这俩人的案例说实话对已经辛辛苦苦拿下PhD的人还真没什么启示或者借鉴作用。
我想我还多少明白楼主上来“征求意见”的目的吧，所以我会反复强调她的问题不是绿卡的问题，而是心态的问题。如果还是同样心态的话，地理的转变我并不觉得会给她带来人生的转变和机遇。说实话，她听不听是一回事，我说不说又是另外一回事，而且我说的很多话未必是给她一个人听的（it's her loss if she does not listen），如果能对看这个帖子的任何人有一定的帮助我都会很高兴，有一个妹妹就给我私下发信感谢我的发言给她带来了一定的启示。否定自身努力的事情我会留给别人去做，我自己所需要做的就是努力，当然不单单是指这个帖子了，这是我做事的一贯原则。
楼主把Steve Jobs的讲话拿出来说话我觉得多少有些可笑，因为说实话我觉得她其实没有完全理解Jobs的意思，或者就是selectively地从字面上去寻找自己回去的理由吧。Steve says: stay hungry -> so LZ thinks: ok, follow my stomach; Steve says: stay foolish -> LZ figures: ok, ignore other people's contrary opinions. 上面这句话多少有些开玩笑了，不过其实道理就是那么回事，看大家怎么理解了。
嗯，虽然事情都有两面性，不能说谁对谁错。但是通过讨论我们都看到了一些不同的perspective。虽然我自己更喜欢美国的环境，但不能否认对于有些人在国内可能更游刃有余。很多论坛上的mm是一路读书上来的人，跟我的情况可能更加相似，我觉得这个群体海归的时候还是要多权衡一下的。
楼主把Steve Jobs的讲话拿出来说话我觉得多少有些可笑，因为说实话我觉得她其实没有完全理解Jobs的意思，或者就是selectively地从字面上去寻找自己回去的理由吧。Steve says: stay hungry -> so LZ thinks: ok, follow my stomach; Steve says: stay foolish -> LZ figures: ok, ignore other people's contrary opinions. 上面这句话多少有些开玩笑了，不过其实道理就是那么回事，看大家怎么理解了。
我不得不再一次说，对小妹妹，要厚道，要厚道，虽然你是在开玩笑。我还真不觉得楼主是那么想的，我猜也许steve的讲话促使她下定决心放弃自己在美国的一切回国重新开始吧。
我不得不再一次说，对小妹妹，要厚道，要厚道，虽然你是在开玩笑。我还真不觉得楼主是那么想的，我猜也许steve的讲话促使她下定决心放弃自己在美国的一切回国重新开始吧。
我不反对放弃，我做事的一个准则就是：if you don't give up something good, you'll never get something better. 必要的放弃没有错，但人生当中需要更多的品质是坚持。
我不反对放弃，我做事的一个准则就是：if you don't give up something good, you'll never get something better. 必要的放弃没有错，但人生当中需要更多的品质是坚持。
怎么判断什么时候要放弃，什么时候该坚持？
太同意了. 其实我在大学出来第一份工作外企打工的时候, 那时的老板就语重心长地对我说: 人有两种, 能够在大公司当ELITE 的, 能够自己做小老板的, 你要尽快搞清楚你是哪一种. 这么多年下来, 我早搞明白了, 我就是在大公司打工的命.
但即使这样, 我仍然觉得在美国打工少了很多那种在国内的干扰因素, 仍然喜欢美国职场相对单纯的环境. 美国这边就是在公司内部调动个工作, 尤其是到了一定级别的工作, 公司内部网根本不POST, 一点没有关系也不行. 但至少这个游戏, 大家都是按牌理出牌的, 不会太过分. 你要是个阿斗, TRACK RECORD 不好, 你也上不了马. 所以我说, 美国这边, 你的命运和发展至少一定程度上在自己的掌握之中的. 而我在国内, 家里没有背景可以依靠, 我觉得很多事情即使再努力, 也可能会OUT OF MY CONTROL, 所以国内的环境给我最大的CONCERN 是没有安全感.
这里的JM, 可以问问国内MS 发展的人, 他们心里有安全感吗? 如果有为什么有钱以后纷纷把LP 孩子送到国外, 还要拿个身份?
我的高中同学的LG, 当年是深圳发展初期发家的那批, 15年前就身家几百上千万了. 当时发家也是因为公司挂靠在一个有军方背景的公司里, 借了不少便利. 10年前因为她LG 的哥哥没有处理好如何和军方背景深的人物分钱, 被以一个罪名投入大狱. 她LG 和家人散了很多钱财托了很多关系, 过了好几年, 才把人捞出来. 这其间, 有很长一段时间, 她LG 不敢回深圳, 在新西兰躲着. 现在我同学和他LG 在上海有个小公司, 看起来情况一般, 要不豪华大房子早买了. 现在他们的生活, 我看还比不上当年在深圳.
说实话, 很多人在这边混得一般, 觉得回去就如何, 实际上就是一个借口.
既然英文不好, 为什么不努力提高? 美国人也不是所有的人的COMMUNICATION SKILLS 好的, 英文说的和写的很烂的人不要太多. 但是我看到我周围的很多中国人进公司那么多年, 下班看中文电视, 中文DVD, 很少阅读工作以外的英文东西, 也总是在LOCAL 的中国人圈子里转, 英文怎么能提高? 思维方式也不改变, 对美国文化也了解有限, 肚子里再有饺子, 不能很好的倒出来, 人家又怎能给你机会?
谢谢Dharma 姐姐。你说得太好了。
我就是你所描述的这种人。你这么一说把我给骂醒了。
与其坐在这里怨天尤人，这山看着那山高，不如珍惜现在，把握机会！！！
尤其是出国前没有工作过的，现在同学都是副主任医师，你回国还要从住院医开始。
我知道学医得毕业就出国的，回国大部分都是去公司。去做基础不是不行，但是又没有原来生物系的人的国内关系。
我想我还多少明白楼主上来“征求意见”的目的吧，所以我会反复强调她的问题不是绿卡的问题，而是心态的问题。如果还是同样心态的话，地理的转变我并不觉得会给她带来人生的转变和机遇。说实话，她听不听是一回事，我说不说又是另外一回事，而且我说的很多话未必是给她一个人听的（it's her loss if she does not listen），如果能对看这个帖子的任何人有一定的帮助我都会很高兴，有一个妹妹就给我私下发信感谢我的发言给她带来了一定的启示。否定自身努力的事情我会留给别人去做，我自己所需要做的就是努力，当然不单单是指这个帖子了，这是我做事的一贯原则。
楼主把Steve Jobs的讲话拿出来说话我觉得多少有些可笑，因为说实话我觉得她其实没有完全理解Jobs的意思，或者就是selectively地从字面上去寻找自己回去的理由吧。Steve says: stay hungry -> so LZ thinks: ok, follow my stomach; Steve says: stay foolish -> LZ figures: ok, ignore other people's contrary opinions. 上面这句话多少有些开玩笑了，不过其实道理就是那么回事，看大家怎么理解了。
这个你弄错了。是我想看，所以麻烦楼主找出来的。不是她用来说事的。楼主在她的帖子里面也说的很清楚了。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-23 9:07:57编辑过]
怎么判断什么时候要放弃，什么时候该坚持？
同问。而且我一厢情愿的觉得，这个答案，不会人人都一样吧。不是抬杠哈，我个人就感觉，揪着lz mm的心态说事，这种做法就不是很必要坚持。那篇文章是另外一个mm要看的，不算lz mm的论据。退一万步说，她就是希望从中得到一些鼓励，也无可厚非。
到底什么样的人应该回去，这个楼这么高，相信看过的，又有回国打算的人都会更理性的思考自身的情况最终加以判断，这就够了。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-4-23 9:29:48编辑过]
怎么判断什么时候要放弃，什么时候该坚持？
还拿楼主的case来说吧，既然大家已经比较熟悉了，没有专门针对她的意思。如果我是她的话，我未必一定会坚持等绿卡，但我会坚持在美国这边多获得一些经验，多体验美国，多加强自己对美国的理解和英文沟通的能力。我不会因为这些事情我不喜欢或者排斥就去轻易放弃，因为既然选择来到了这里就一定要充分利用这个机会。绿卡在这种情况下倒更多的像个by-product了。至于类似国内的美食和娱乐这些考虑，在我看来是属于something nice to have，但绝对是属于为了大局可以放弃的因素。美国对于现在的中国留学生而言绝对不应该是不归路，但是希望大家能把在这里的经历和学习当做铸造和完善自身的一个机会，而不仅仅是简历上的几个bullet。
放弃是一种技巧，坚持是一种习惯。两者如果掉过来的话则是人生的悲剧。
大叔同志, 我这个大妈劝你一句, 你在这儿较真没啥用.
你要考虑到一般能够考试拿到全奖来美留学的是个什么样的群体. 这个POOL 里很多人在学校是两耳不闻窗外事的好学生, 在家里眼里是听话的好孩子, 国内毕业很多几乎没有工作过. 这样的人一直生活在象牙塔里, 完全的理想主义, 很多人有着改变世界的万丈雄心.
你现在和他们说外面艰险, 社会丑陋, 没有用的.
而且我发现很多MS 征求别人意见的人, 实际上内心深处不是要多听多想, 不是要综合不同声音来思考衡量决策, 而是上来寻求相同意见者, 以为别人和自己想法相同就说明自己的想法是对的, 用来REINFORCE 自己的想法的. 说深了, 还是对自己不自信, 上来以寻求意见的方式印证自己的想法, 来增加信心.
我的一个朋友就这样, 我是最近才意识到这点. 她最近做了一个在我看来IMPLICATION 很大的决定, 我作为朋友竭力反对, 她差点和我翻脸. 我后来才意识到她只是SELECTIVELY 接受别人的看法, 因为那些人的看法和她相同. 知道她只是寻求一致的声音来印征她自己的想法, 我以后也不会那么认真了. 我劝你也算了哈.
每个人或多或少都是些这样的倾向吧。
大叔和你不也认定了美国就是环境单纯就是好吗？
放弃是一种技巧，坚持是一种习惯。两者如果掉过来的话则是人生的悲剧。
这句话说得很好呀，不过我离悲剧不远了，我老想靠小聪明找捷径，不够执著。得经常提醒自己才好，争取离悲剧远点儿，最好能最后混成个喜剧。
每个人或多或少都是些这样的倾向吧。
大叔和你不也认定了美国就是环境单纯就是好吗？
美国环境的单纯就是好，也是很多人选择留在美国的首要原因，你难道不这么认为吗？如果不是这么认为的话你倒应该早点回去，也许国内的环境你会觉得更如鱼得水，这样想法的人我一般都是鼓励回去的。我之所以为楼主提供一些想法和意见，完全是因为我感觉楼主这样profile的人长期而言更适合留在美国发展，尽管她现在处于一个self-denial的阶段。
美国环境的单纯就是好，也是很多人选择留在美国的首要原因，你难道不这么认为吗？如果不是这么认为的话你倒应该早点回去，也许国内的环境你会觉得更如鱼得水，这样想法的人我一般都是鼓励回去的。我之所以为楼主提供一些想法和意见，完全是因为我感觉楼主这样profile的人长期而言更适合留在美国发展，尽管她现在处于一个self-denial的阶段。
我也觉得美国的环境单纯，这也确实是我选择留在美国的重要原因。
还拿楼主的case来说吧，既然大家已经比较熟悉了，没有专门针对她的意思。如果我是她的话，我未必一定会坚持等绿卡，但我会坚持在美国这边多获得一些经验，多体验美国，多加强自己对美国的理解和英文沟通的能力。我不会因为这些事情我不喜欢或者排斥就去轻易放弃，因为既然选择来到了这里就一定要充分利用这个机会。绿卡在这种情况下倒更多的像个by-product了。至于类似国内的美食和娱乐这些考虑，在我看来是属于something nice to have，但绝对是属于为了大局可以放弃的因素。美国对于现在的中国留学生而言绝对不应该是不归路，但是希望大家能把在这里的经历和学习当做铸造和完善自身的一个机会，而不仅仅是简历上的几个bullet。
放弃是一种技巧，坚持是一种习惯。两者如果掉过来的话则是人生的悲剧。
最后一句话说得真好，不过很多时候做不到。作为不通世事，一直待在象牙塔里的”小mm"(han～～其实也不小了，都过了两轮了），我也说一句，一开始对“大叔”（其实是青年才俊啦）还是有点反感的，不过跟下来，我还是很感激你能在休假期间在诸多“打击”下仍留在楼里说了这么多的。 起码对我，在是否海龟这个问题上，能够更好地下判断。
我也随便套用一句，不要因为“大叔”在某些帖子上的态度不喜欢或者排斥，就全盘否定他的言论。这个楼里，很明显，Dharma mm的意见更容易被大家接受，其实两个人在很多帖子里给出的建议是一致的。