我以前有一个同事就是有点阿斯，很多人不喜欢他觉得他很二，但是我和他关系挺好的，因为我很习惯和阿斯相处，我爸就有点儿阿斯。事实上我爸和我同事都是内心非常善良而且很乐观的的人，他们有自已的一套思维逻辑体系，不容易受他人的负面影响，也确实搞不清楚别人话里有话的真实意图。话说我这同事就找了个楼主妈类似的老婆，这个老婆无论是从学历工作家庭出身各方面都应该是高攀了我这同事的，做家务能干也是能干，但一辈子事实上也是靠我同事的，最后就是搞到同事和父母都不能来往，父亲去世都不让同事儿子去看最后一眼，然后自己还总是受害者，而且还总觉得自己是受害者。我同事也是受不了她每天不停的nagging,为了减少和她相处的时间就city walk alone,叫她一起出去也是不肯的。前两年听到一次这个老婆骂同事，真是叹为观止，就跟教训儿子似的，我同事也就做做鬼脸，－笑了之。我同事有讲过这老婆的出身家庭环境，总的来说我感觉就是一covert NPD ，这个阿斯老公事实上是她的绝配，她不可能找到更好的了，明白人早就离开了，受不了的。我妈也有点NPD,但是我脑子比较清醒，所以她只对我爸作，临过世对我爸说这辈子对不起，我爸也还是挺爱我妈的。所以什么锅配什么盖，婚姻里冷暖自知，旁人包括儿女有时都是无法悟到真相的
理解lz的感受 emotion detachment 了解一下？ 实话实说，他俩的婚姻是他俩之间的事，晚辈只能听听，无需站边，也无需帮助他们解决婚姻问题(也没有这个能力不是？） 这事主要是你母亲想不开，且习惯了这种比较负面额情绪发泄抱怨和埋怨的沟通生活方式 let it be 她不能接受各自安好，lz得懂得你和她，也只能是各自安好这种相处方式了
你查一下 triangulation Triangulation (psychology) 8 languages Article Talk Read Edit View history Tools
Appearance hide Text Small Standard Large Width Standard Wide Color (beta) Automatic Light Dark From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia For other uses, see Triangulation (disambiguation). Not to be confused with Triangulation (politics). Triangulation is a term in psychology most closely associated with the work of Murray Bowen known as family therapy.[1] Bowen considered a two-person emotional system to be unstable. He also observed that two people seem emotionally closer when excluding a third party. Bowen therefore theorized that under stress, couples gravitate towards third parties to create "triangles", with two of the members always being closest - although which two are "in", and which member is "out", may be constantly shifting. Family theory[edit] In the family triangulation system, the third person can either be used as a substitute for direct communication or can be used as a messenger to carry the communication to the main party. Usually, this communication is an expressed dissatisfaction with the main party. For example, in a dysfunctional family in which there is alcoholism present, the non-drinking parent will go to a child and express dissatisfaction with the drinking parent. This includes the child in the discussion of how to solve the problem of the alcoholic parent. Sometimes the child can engage in the relationship with the parent, filling the role of the third party, and thereby being "triangulated" into the relationship. Alternatively, the child may then go to the alcoholic parent, relaying what they were told. In instances when this occurs, the child may be forced into a role of a "surrogate spouse". The reason that this occurs is that both parties are dysfunctional. Rather than communicating directly with each other, they utilize a third party. Sometimes this is because it is unsafe to go directly to the person and discuss the concerns, particularly if they are alcoholic and/or abusive.[citation needed] In a triangular family relationship, the two who have aligned risk forming an enmeshed relationship.[3] Positive and negative triangulation[edit] Triangulation can be a constructive and stabilizing factor. Triangulation can also be a destructive and destabilizing factor. Destabilizing or "bad triangulation" can polarize communications and escalate conflict.[4] Understanding the difference between stabilizing triangulation and destabilizing triangulation helps avoid destabilizing situations.[4] Triangulation may be overt, which is more commonly seen in high-conflict families, or covert. [5] A 2016 longitudinal study of adolescent relationship skills found that teens who were triangulated into parental conflicts more frequently used positive conflict resolution techniques with their own dating partner, but were also more likely to engage in verbally abusive behaviors. [6] The Perverse Triangle[edit] The Perverse Triangle was first described in 1977 by Jay Haley[7] as a triangle where two people who are on different hierarchical or generational levels form a coalition against a third person (e.g., "a covert alliance between a parent and a child, who band together to undermine the other parent's power and authority".)[8] The perverse triangle concept has been widely discussed in professional literature.[9][10][11][12][13] Bowen called it the pathological triangle,[12] while Minuchin called it the rigid triangle.[14] For example, a parent and child can align against the other parent but not admit to it, to form a cross-generational coalition.[15] These are harmful to children.[16][11][17] Child development[edit] In the field of psychology, triangulations are necessary steps in the child's development. When a two-party relationship is opened up by a third party, a new form of relationship emerges and the child gains new mental abilities. The concept was introduced in 1971 by the Swiss psychiatrist Ernst L. Abelin, especially as 'early triangulation', to describe the transitions in psychoanalytic object relations theory and parent-child relationship in the age of 18 months. In this presentation, the mother is the early caregiver with a nearly "symbiotic" relationship to the child, and the father lures the child away to the outside world, resulting in the father being the third party.[18] Abelin later developed an 'organizer- and triangulation-model',[19] in which he based the whole human mental and psychic development on several steps of triangulation. Some earlier related work, published in a 1951 paper, had been done by the German psychoanalyst Hans Loewald in the area of pre-Oedipal behavior and dynamics.[20] In a 1978 paper, the child psychoanalyst Selma Kramer wrote that Loewald postulated the role of the father as a positive supporting force for the pre-Oedipal child against the threat of re-engulfment by the mother which leads to an early identification with the father, preceding that of the classical Oedipus complex.[21] This was also related to the work in Separation-Individuation theory of child development by the psychoanalyst Margaret Mahler.[21][22][23] Destabilizing triangulation[edit] Destabilizing triangulation occurs when a person attempts to control the flow, interpretation, and nuances of communication between two separate actors or groups of actors, thus ensuring communications flow through, and constantly relate back to them. Examples include a parent attempting to control communication between two children, or a relationship partner attempting to control communication between the other partner and the other partner's friends and family.[24] Another example is to put a third actor between them and someone with whom they are commonly in conflict. Rather than communicating directly with the actor with whom they are in conflict, they will send communication supporting his or her case through a third actor in an attempt to make the communication more credible.[25] Destabilizing triangulation can adversely impact children, who may experience increased anxiety and self-blame due to involvement in marital disputes between their parents.[26] See also[edit] Karpman drama triangle Mind games Parental alienation Destabilisation References[edit] ^ Katafiasz, H. (2018). Bowen Family Systems Therapy with Families. In: Lebow, J., Chambers, A., Breunlin, D. (eds) Encyclopedia of Couple and Family Therapy. Springer, Cham. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-15877-8_1147-1 ^ Bowen, Murray (1985), "On the differentiation of self (1972)", in Bowen, Murray (ed.), Family therapy in clinical practice, Lanham, Maryland: Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc., p. 478, ISBN 9780876687611. ^ "How triangulation in family relationships can lead to love triangles". psychotherapist-nyc.blogspot.com. NYC Therapist. 2010-11-06. Retrieved 14 September 2015. ^ Jump up to: ab Johnson, R. Skip (3 January 2020). "Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle". BPDFamily.com. BPDFamily. Retrieved 4 January 2021. ^ Carr, Alan (2015). The Handbook of Child and Adolescent Clinical Psychology: A Contextual Approach. Routledge. ISBN 9781317591504. ^ Fosco, Gregory (2016). "Triangulation and Parent-Adolescent Relationships: Implications for Adolescent Dating Competence and Abuse". Journal of Research on Adolescence. 26 (3): 524–537. doi:10.1111/jora.12210. PMID 28581646. S2CID 6391632. ^ Watzlawick, Paul; Weakland, John H. (1977). The Interactional View. Studies at the Mental Research Institute, Palo Alto: W. W. Norton & Co. pp. 37–41. ISBN 9780393333305. ^ Scarf, Maggie. Intimate Partners, The Atlantic, Nov 1986, accessed 04 October 2016 ^ Hoffman, Lynn (1981). Foundations of family therapy: a conceptual framework for systems change. Basic Books. ISBN 9780876687611. Details. ^ Staff writer (1995-05-10), "perverse triangles (definition)", in Miermont, Jacques (ed.), The dictionary of family therapy, Blackwell, ISBN 9780631170488 Available online. ^ Jump up to: ab Gottlieb, Linda J. (2012). The parental alienation syndrome: a family therapy and collaborative systems approach to amelioration. Springfield, Illinois: Charles C. Thomas Publisher Ltd. pp. 4, 87, 180, 214, 222, 249, 254, 258, 259. ISBN 9780398087364. Preview. ^ Jump up to: ab Baker, Amy J. L.; Sauber, S. Richard (2013). Working with alienated families: a clinical guidebook. New York London: Routledge. pp. 200, 230, 238. ISBN 9780415518031. Preview. ^ Childress, Craig A. (2015), "Family transitions", in Childress, Craig A. (ed.), An attachment-based model of parental alienation: foundations, Claremont, California: Oaksong Press, p. 33, ISBN 9780996114509. ^ Minuchin, Salvador (1974), "Therapeutic implications of a structural approach", in Minuchin, Salvador (ed.), Families and family therapy (1st ed.), Harvard University Press, p. 102, ISBN 9780674292369. ^ Adams, Jerome (2014), "Milan systemic therapy: glossary", in Wetchler, Joseph L.; Hecker, Lorna L. (eds.), An introduction to marriage and family therapy, Oxford New York: Routledge, p. 143, ISBN 9780415719506. Preview. ^ "peverse triangle (definition)". behavenet.com. Behavenet. Retrieved 30 August 2015. ^ Kerig, Patricia (October 2005). "Revisiting the construct of boundary dissolution revisiting the construct of boundary dissolution". Journal of Emotional Abuse. 5 (2–3): 5–42. doi:10.1300/J135v05n02_02. S2CID 141324161. ^ Abelin, Ernst (1971), "The role of the father in the separation-individuation process", in McDevitt, John B.; Settlage, Calvin F. (eds.), Separation-individuation: essays in honor of Margaret S. Mahler, New York: International Universities Press, pp. 229–252, ISBN 9780823660650. ^ Abelin, Ernst. "The organizer and triangulation model (abbreviated: The O&T-Model)". organizer-model.org. Organizer Model. ^ Loewald, Hans W. (1951). "Ego and reality". The International Journal of Psychoanalysis. 32. Wiley-Blackwell for the International Psychoanalytical Association: 10–18. ^ Jump up to: ab Kramer, Selma; Prall, Robert C. (February 1978). "The role of the father in the preoedipal". Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association. 26 (1): 143–161. doi:10.1177/000306517802600108. PMID 632531. S2CID 37990830. Also available here. ^ Mahler, Margaret S. (October 1967). "On human symbiosis and the vicissitudes of individuation". Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association. 15 (4): 740–763. doi:10.1177/000306516701500401. PMID 4170516. S2CID 33386502. Also available here. ^ Mahler, Margaret S. (1963). "Thoughts about development and individuation". The Psychoanalytic Study of the Child. 18: 307–324. doi:10.1080/00797308.1963.11822933. PMID 14147283. Abstract also printed as: Mahler, Margaret S. (1975), "334. MAHLER, MARGARET SCHOENBERGER. Thoughts about development and individuation. 18:307-324, 1963", in Eissler, Ruth S. (ed.), The Psychoanalytic Study of the Child, volumes 1-25: abstracts and index, New Haven: Yale University Press, p. 222. Preview. ^ Morrigan, Danu You're Not Crazy - It's Your Mother: Understanding and Healing for Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers ^ Bailey-Rug C (2014) It's All About ME! The Facts About Maternal Narcissism ^ Wakefield, M. (5 July 2023). "The Role of Triangulation in the Narcissistic Abuse Cycle". Narcissistic Abuse Rehab. Retrieved 19 July 2023. Triangulation can also occur in families. Research shows that children who experience destabilizing triangulation "feel caught, trapped, or torn between parents". (Franck & Buehler, 2007).
我来说我家的例子，不是楼主家，也许楼主妈妈不是这种。我妈是典型NPD，要知道NPD是非常会装的。只有比较近的人才能真的了解。父母那一代都是熟人介绍，周末俩人约会吃个饭，那时候周末还只休一天，认识一年就结婚了，结婚就立刻生娃了。后来，我爸妈就告诉我，尽量不要找别人介绍对象，不了解。容易被骗。最好自己认识。 我妈是从小就脾气非常不好，我姥姥就特别担心她长大家庭有问题，就真的有问题。
对，有人格障碍的话，根本不是温情互动能改变的。 对这种人也没法温情互动。最好的办法就是远离。楼主爸爸多旅游，摄影，发展自己爱好，尽量少交流。就是不离婚情况下的远离。要把楼主爸爸和楼主妈妈天天拉在一起，温情互动，会死人的。
但是通过楼主的话，只能得出楼主妈妈的缺点：非常过分的责骂，无休止的怨气，恨毒了自己的配偶，把自己女儿当情绪垃圾桶。 楼主爸爸的缺点： 不咋干家务做饭。
楼主妈妈有没有人格障碍还需要更多的事情才能证明。
是的，不能判断楼主妈妈是哪一种，可以侧面从舅舅姨妈那里了解一下妈妈年轻的时候是什么脾气。如果年轻的时候脾气蛮正常的，可能就是遇到了不合适的配偶。两个人都没啥错，就是不合适，日积月累的，就有怨气了。
楼主妈妈年轻时候在家里脾气怎样，其实挺重要的。 这个只有就是楼主妈妈的父母，楼主妈妈的兄弟姐妹才能知道。
同事啥的，朋友啥的，是看不出来的。 谈恋爱的时候如果时间短，男的又不是很聪明，更看不出来。
这是有可能的，把简单的工作复杂化。而且年轻的时候好歹还有工作孩子，到这个年纪真的是没有任何精神寄托了，所以人真的需要朋友和爱好才能快乐（LZ爸爸就是例子）
同意每一句，老一辈很多不了解就结婚了，怨偶特别多。
我觉得这完全不能看出阿斯，他只是懒得搭理你妈... 我同意他的逻辑啊，他为什么不能想怎么过怎么过，你妈完全可以不给他提供服务，但是谁爱听别人没完没了叨叨。 这年纪了，谁能改变谁？要么接受，要么分手，不肯分那也别没完没了。 我完全站你爸。他未必是个好老公，但是你妈愿意呀
就老两口，也不上班也不带娃，你老妈自己也要吃喝，家务很多吗？
老太太真是toxic，自己过得不好也要把周围人搞得苦不堪言
你爸爸出门是对的，难道还不能有自己的生活？是你妈自己不愿意出门。再说她抱怨你爸不干活，正好他出门了就不用管你爸了。结果她还是不行，呆家里挨骂，出门也挨骂，这哪是过日子
我是佩服有些人，好好的日子非要过的鸡飞狗跳，所有的人都要因为她/他而被绑死不能好好活着
老头子老了有点小爱好不是很好的一件事吗？出门旅游社交，对身心都好，结果还要挨骂，想过点正常人日子的权利都不能满足
只想说，你爸不一定在享受你妈的付出，你妈认为的不对等其实是感情绑架。
自己认识也没用。我爸妈中学同学大学同学。大学以后恋爱了两年才结婚的。我妈对我爸还是缺乏基本的了解。真的恋爱很容易被蒙蔽的。自己yy.主要还是要提高自己的经验和识人的能力。最好put your partner through stress test.
楼主的描述看来 楼主爸爸在正常社交环境里面有情绪满足 楼主妈妈只对自己可以谩骂的社交环境有兴趣
而且不满，干涉，切断伴侣正常社交处于常见的pua行为。
一年到头跟孩子相处的时间不多，何况还有孙辈回来了。天伦之乐都不能感动老太太，这样对她也不好。需要学会自己调节，跟孩子们孙辈们开开心心一起度过。
老太太现在就是把老头子当头号敌人了，但孩子跟孙辈回来时间也不多，开开心心大家都快乐不是。她非要搅得大家都不开心，这样多不好。都这个年龄了，过好每一天，特别是珍惜跟孙辈的时光，平时也要自己过好日子。
至于老头子，爱咋快乐就咋快乐，别管那么多，都这个时候了接受对方的状态，不然搞的自己跟一家子都不开心
每次我都想逃开，巴不得假期快点结束。可是真的离开了，又特别想念。一想到这些我就流泪。”
看得让我也想流泪
我妈也有类似毛病，内耗高手。对家人吹毛求疵作天作地，也有面目扭曲的时候。 所幸最近她信基督教比较入心了，人看上去明显安心很多。
你说得对。 阿斯是covert npd能找到最好结果，是长期血包。而且没有BPD折腾人。 基本是单向霸凌。
不太理解这些名词。阿斯是不care 别人的想法，从而可以在npd 的辱骂下survive?
也不一定是男的不肯干，我就亲眼见过一家从结婚时男的什么家务都干，到后来的什么都不干，因为女方总是嫌弃他什么都干不好，当然可能是真的干的不好，最后男方发展到对家里所有家务都视若不见，反正干或不干都要挨骂，不如什么都不干。
孩子有没有错，骂孩子干啥啊？！
骂老公，一定限度的抱怨可以理解。但是像楼主妈妈那种长时间的辱骂太过了，而且不应该牵扯到自己的孩子。
碰到啥也不干的男的，又不想离婚，就是自己少干点呗，只干最必要的，自己能接受的部分，其余外包。 如果男的赚的多、经济条件不错，总能外包一半左右的家务的，就当男的多赚的钱买了一半的家务。 至于孩子，孩子是你的，你管的多，自然和孩子的感情深，不亏的。
不能接受就离婚走人。人生苦短，怨恨对谁都不好。
不管是男的不想干，还是女的不让男的干，这么多年了，楼主一年回去那几天就想改变父母的生活方式和婚姻状态，那基本不可能。
婚姻就是谁痛苦谁改变。 能改变的就是自己和自己心态，受不了就离婚。 要求对方怎样怎样，那是很难的。
虽然有点好奇lz父母是年轻时就如此，还是有什么隐情，但如果如大家一面倒认为的那样：lz父亲做得挺好，母亲使劲作。这种夫妻通常老头儿早早就走了，可以说是被太太常年搓磨的结果。
我觉得楼主可以考察一下自己母亲到底是什么类型的。如果是因为婚姻不幸福导致的脾气暴躁，是可以引导的，前面很多人都给了很好的建议，都可以一试。 如果是本身性格缺陷，那就把那些话当耳旁风，不要影响到自己就好了。其实就是和她父亲一样的做法。
哎，我是觉得引导需要早期，中期，楼主爸妈都年纪很大了。 我对楼主能引导父母，能改善婚姻状况持悲观看法。除非她爸妈自己想改善，那可能不一样。
就像癌症，早期中期可治，晚期不恶化就不错了。
很多夫妻相处到最后， 外人看着别扭无比，但是两人达到了某种奇怪的平衡，然后也能一直别扭的继续过下去。。。
我家有比较近的亲戚也是如此，现在都80多了。夫妻两几乎没有一次是好好说话，只要对方在场，一开口怎么气死对方怎么说，你不喜欢的我偏要喜欢，不希望我做的，我一定要坚持做（我看楼主的爸爸就觉得很像）。外人尤其是小辈人看着好笑又滑稽。
其实最初的原因还是因为婆媳矛盾，男方是农村家庭唯一的儿子，姐妹好几个。还很出息。是文革前，村里唯一的大学生。这种配置可以想象婆婆觉得自己的儿子最棒，媳妇应该如何如何。
媳妇偏偏也是当时农村家庭唯一的大学生，那个年代农村家庭女孩读书读到大学还是很罕见的。能吃苦，泼辣，自身也是很tough的那种性格。所以根本不服软。矛盾起来了就不允许老公去管婆婆。闹到最后两人财政分开，男方的收入一分钱都不交给老婆。但是会给孩子买东西。。
婆婆早已经去世，他们两人一辈子都快过去了，两人也不会好好说话，见面就呛，但是那个年代的人，也不离婚。还在一个屋檐下住着。
其实我也是悲观那一派的……
果不其然，我其实也更相信本楼故事与你家亲戚的类似：今天的一切都自有其因果，外人无法明白。
你没看到楼主说她帮她妈干活她妈嫌弃她，她爸干活肯定也被嫌弃啊，你要是老师干活被人嫌弃你还干吗？
你父母已经有他们的生存模式了，你改变不了任何一个
就算你要去看他们，何必带着孩子去观摩这种病态的模式呢
这个也看具体情况。我见过让老头子洗个菜切个菜，老头子连菜刀菜板都不知道在哪的，干点活要问老太太好几遍，家里啥大事小情都一无所知，结果老太太这一通伤感。
我真的不觉得这个有什么不好。儿女给钱不就是希望父母自己买喜欢的东西吗。
这个妈只能凉着了，太过分了。如果是我就不打电话也不接她的电话除非主动道歉并保证以后不犯。
不一定有用。来个钟点工，估计她母亲也会看不顺眼。她母亲不单纯是因为做家务多，累，而不开心的。关键是她没有让自己快乐的能力，无法疏解自己。在婚姻关系中，没有得到爱和关心。冰冻三尺非一日之寒，哎。。
干活要练习的。年轻的时候就开始干，慢慢就干好了。不给机会练习，上来就说人家干的不行，是不讲理。 老太太当年第一次干也没可能干好的。 菜板菜刀不知道在哪里就告诉他，第一次不知道，以后就知道了呀。 还有就是切菜用来干啥，如果是给老太太切的，那就要问清楚老太太要什么样的，粗细之类的。否则还是又要被抱怨。如果是老头自己切自己炒，老太太就离开厨房，老头自己琢磨干就是了。合作干活是需要一点智慧的。
做子女的一般下不去手去毁坏父母婚姻，毕竟手心手背都是肉。可以和平劝离，但借助外力还是下不去手的。
子女没必要去破坏父母婚姻， 不需要和平劝离，也不需要帮他们搞好关系。
楼主只需要在父母面前都守住自己的边界就好了： 比如让她妈妈在自己面前的时候要有基本的behave。不可谩骂也不可抱怨自己的爸爸。 不可让妈妈侵犯自己的边界。 楼主爸爸没影响到楼主，楼主也不可侵犯爸爸的边界，去劝自己爸爸关心妈妈。
同意，可能有的婚姻外人看来质量特别差，应该离婚。但是这两个人就是达到了某种诡异的平衡，别别扭扭的白头到老。感觉楼主爹妈就是这种。
你母亲主要是心态问题 不论出于什么原因，自己决定不跟着老伴一起出游 正常人，虽然自己去不了，看到老伴高高兴兴地去，开开心心地回来，也是开心的 一起看照片，听老伴分享路上的见闻，分享喜悦 本来是件多好的事儿 可以 win win 硬是让你母亲搞成了 lose lose
如果你爸处理照片耽误了做家务 随时即使提醒他不就完了嘛 帮助朋友但不要影响做家务影响家庭生活，是很合理的要求啊
恕我直言，你妈现在还没有被害妄想到，觉得你爸天天给她投毒，想要她的钱她的命，你就谢天谢地吧。 我公公婆婆跟你描述的你爸妈状态很像，不同的是我婆婆几年前开始就怀疑我公公要害死她，开始各种折腾，我公公躲到半个中国以外，她都觉得他坐飞机回来爬到楼上给她投毒，然后再坐飞机回去。我老公和公公都苦不堪言。 人老了就是这样，你也无法改变，就是大脑出现问题了。就当你妈是老年痴呆吧，我们也跟公公说，不要跟她计较，她就是个病人，想怎么样就怎么样吧。看在母女一场的份上，你该怎么对她就怎么对她，但是不要因为她做的事说的话痛苦自己，就足够了。
每次跟你母亲交谈的时候 事前先给自己设定好一些界限 比如，感到不耐烦了，就停止对话，以后有空了再聊
如果是回国，给自己安排一些me time，也安排一些陪伴父母的时间 陪伴父母时，就专心听他们讲话，保持头脑清醒 你只是通过陪伴聆听这种方式，表达你对他们的爱意 你没有义务和责任去解决他俩之间的问题，你无需为他们的婚姻负责，你也没有这个能力
你父亲说的没错啊 到了这个年纪了，就是应该多做做自己喜欢做的事，多玩乐保持心情愉悦，why not?
你们是不是交谈的时候 都急着想表达自己的观点想法，都想着去改变别人 没有人是真的在聆听对方想表达什么？
我现在觉着 提供情绪价值 是个悖论
每个成年人都应该为自己的情绪负责 包括察觉认知清晰地表述自己的情绪，有能力调节和管理好自己的情绪
期望从别人那里“要到”情绪价值 就好比去别人那里化缘 化不到，还气得不行 不如自产自销，自给自足
你查一下 triangulation
Triangulation (psychology) 8 languages Article Talk Read Edit View history Tools
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For other uses, see Triangulation (disambiguation). Not to be confused with Triangulation (politics). Triangulation is a term in psychology most closely associated with the work of Murray Bowen known as family therapy.[1] Bowen considered a two-person emotional system to be unstable. He also observed that two people seem emotionally closer when excluding a third party. Bowen therefore theorized that under stress, couples gravitate towards third parties to create "triangles", with two of the members always being closest - although which two are "in", and which member is "out", may be constantly shifting.
Family theory[edit] In the family triangulation system, the third person can either be used as a substitute for direct communication or can be used as a messenger to carry the communication to the main party. Usually, this communication is an expressed dissatisfaction with the main party. For example, in a dysfunctional family in which there is alcoholism present, the non-drinking parent will go to a child and express dissatisfaction with the drinking parent. This includes the child in the discussion of how to solve the problem of the alcoholic parent. Sometimes the child can engage in the relationship with the parent, filling the role of the third party, and thereby being "triangulated" into the relationship. Alternatively, the child may then go to the alcoholic parent, relaying what they were told. In instances when this occurs, the child may be forced into a role of a "surrogate spouse". The reason that this occurs is that both parties are dysfunctional. Rather than communicating directly with each other, they utilize a third party. Sometimes this is because it is unsafe to go directly to the person and discuss the concerns, particularly if they are alcoholic and/or abusive.[citation needed] In a triangular family relationship, the two who have aligned risk forming an enmeshed relationship.[3] Positive and negative triangulation[edit] Triangulation can be a constructive and stabilizing factor. Triangulation can also be a destructive and destabilizing factor. Destabilizing or "bad triangulation" can polarize communications and escalate conflict.[4] Understanding the difference between stabilizing triangulation and destabilizing triangulation helps avoid destabilizing situations.[4] Triangulation may be overt, which is more commonly seen in high-conflict families, or covert. [5] A 2016 longitudinal study of adolescent relationship skills found that teens who were triangulated into parental conflicts more frequently used positive conflict resolution techniques with their own dating partner, but were also more likely to engage in verbally abusive behaviors. [6] The Perverse Triangle[edit] The Perverse Triangle was first described in 1977 by Jay Haley[7] as a triangle where two people who are on different hierarchical or generational levels form a coalition against a third person (e.g., "a covert alliance between a parent and a child, who band together to undermine the other parent's power and authority".)[8] The perverse triangle concept has been widely discussed in professional literature.[9][10][11][12][13] Bowen called it the pathological triangle,[12] while Minuchin called it the rigid triangle.[14] For example, a parent and child can align against the other parent but not admit to it, to form a cross-generational coalition.[15] These are harmful to children.[16][11][17] Child development[edit] In the field of psychology, triangulations are necessary steps in the child's development. When a two-party relationship is opened up by a third party, a new form of relationship emerges and the child gains new mental abilities. The concept was introduced in 1971 by the Swiss psychiatrist Ernst L. Abelin, especially as 'early triangulation', to describe the transitions in psychoanalytic object relations theory and parent-child relationship in the age of 18 months. In this presentation, the mother is the early caregiver with a nearly "symbiotic" relationship to the child, and the father lures the child away to the outside world, resulting in the father being the third party.[18] Abelin later developed an 'organizer- and triangulation-model',[19] in which he based the whole human mental and psychic development on several steps of triangulation. Some earlier related work, published in a 1951 paper, had been done by the German psychoanalyst Hans Loewald in the area of pre-Oedipal behavior and dynamics.[20] In a 1978 paper, the child psychoanalyst Selma Kramer wrote that Loewald postulated the role of the father as a positive supporting force for the pre-Oedipal child against the threat of re-engulfment by the mother which leads to an early identification with the father, preceding that of the classical Oedipus complex.[21] This was also related to the work in Separation-Individuation theory of child development by the psychoanalyst Margaret Mahler.[21][22][23] Destabilizing triangulation[edit] Destabilizing triangulation occurs when a person attempts to control the flow, interpretation, and nuances of communication between two separate actors or groups of actors, thus ensuring communications flow through, and constantly relate back to them. Examples include a parent attempting to control communication between two children, or a relationship partner attempting to control communication between the other partner and the other partner's friends and family.[24] Another example is to put a third actor between them and someone with whom they are commonly in conflict. Rather than communicating directly with the actor with whom they are in conflict, they will send communication supporting his or her case through a third actor in an attempt to make the communication more credible.[25] Destabilizing triangulation can adversely impact children, who may experience increased anxiety and self-blame due to involvement in marital disputes between their parents.[26] See also[edit] Karpman drama triangle Mind games Parental alienation Destabilisation References[edit] ^ Katafiasz, H. (2018). Bowen Family Systems Therapy with Families. In: Lebow, J., Chambers, A., Breunlin, D. (eds) Encyclopedia of Couple and Family Therapy. Springer, Cham. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-15877-8_1147-1 ^ Bowen, Murray (1985), "On the differentiation of self (1972)", in Bowen, Murray (ed.), Family therapy in clinical practice, Lanham, Maryland: Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc., p. 478, ISBN 9780876687611. ^ "How triangulation in family relationships can lead to love triangles". psychotherapist-nyc.blogspot.com. NYC Therapist. 2010-11-06. Retrieved 14 September 2015. ^ Jump up to:
a b Johnson, R. Skip (3 January 2020). "Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle". BPDFamily.com. BPDFamily. Retrieved 4 January 2021. ^ Carr, Alan (2015). The Handbook of Child and Adolescent Clinical Psychology: A Contextual Approach. Routledge. ISBN 9781317591504. ^ Fosco, Gregory (2016). "Triangulation and Parent-Adolescent Relationships: Implications for Adolescent Dating Competence and Abuse". Journal of Research on Adolescence. 26 (3): 524–537. doi:10.1111/jora.12210. PMID 28581646. S2CID 6391632. ^ Watzlawick, Paul; Weakland, John H. (1977). The Interactional View. Studies at the Mental Research Institute, Palo Alto: W. W. Norton & Co. pp. 37–41. ISBN 9780393333305. ^ Scarf, Maggie. Intimate Partners, The Atlantic, Nov 1986, accessed 04 October 2016 ^ Hoffman, Lynn (1981). Foundations of family therapy: a conceptual framework for systems change. Basic Books. ISBN 9780876687611. Details. ^ Staff writer (1995-05-10), "perverse triangles (definition)", in Miermont, Jacques (ed.), The dictionary of family therapy, Blackwell, ISBN 9780631170488 Available online. ^ Jump up to:
a b Gottlieb, Linda J. (2012). The parental alienation syndrome: a family therapy and collaborative systems approach to amelioration. Springfield, Illinois: Charles C. Thomas Publisher Ltd. pp. 4, 87, 180, 214, 222, 249, 254, 258, 259. ISBN 9780398087364. Preview. ^ Jump up to:
a b Baker, Amy J. L.; Sauber, S. Richard (2013). Working with alienated families: a clinical guidebook. New York London: Routledge. pp. 200, 230, 238. ISBN 9780415518031. Preview. ^ Childress, Craig A. (2015), "Family transitions", in Childress, Craig A. (ed.), An attachment-based model of parental alienation: foundations, Claremont, California: Oaksong Press, p. 33, ISBN 9780996114509. ^ Minuchin, Salvador (1974), "Therapeutic implications of a structural approach", in Minuchin, Salvador (ed.), Families and family therapy (1st ed.), Harvard University Press, p. 102, ISBN 9780674292369. ^ Adams, Jerome (2014), "Milan systemic therapy: glossary", in Wetchler, Joseph L.; Hecker, Lorna L. (eds.), An introduction to marriage and family therapy, Oxford New York: Routledge, p. 143, ISBN 9780415719506. Preview. ^ "peverse triangle (definition)". behavenet.com. Behavenet. Retrieved 30 August 2015. ^ Kerig, Patricia (October 2005). "Revisiting the construct of boundary dissolution revisiting the construct of boundary dissolution". Journal of Emotional Abuse. 5 (2–3): 5–42. doi:10.1300/J135v05n02_02. S2CID 141324161. ^ Abelin, Ernst (1971), "The role of the father in the separation-individuation process", in McDevitt, John B.; Settlage, Calvin F. (eds.), Separation-individuation: essays in honor of Margaret S. Mahler, New York: International Universities Press, pp. 229–252, ISBN 9780823660650. ^ Abelin, Ernst. "The organizer and triangulation model (abbreviated: The O&T-Model)". organizer-model.org. Organizer Model. ^ Loewald, Hans W. (1951). "Ego and reality". The International Journal of Psychoanalysis. 32. Wiley-Blackwell for the International Psychoanalytical Association: 10–18. ^ Jump up to:
a b Kramer, Selma; Prall, Robert C. (February 1978). "The role of the father in the preoedipal". Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association. 26 (1): 143–161. doi:10.1177/000306517802600108. PMID 632531. S2CID 37990830. Also available here. ^ Mahler, Margaret S. (October 1967). "On human symbiosis and the vicissitudes of individuation". Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association. 15 (4): 740–763. doi:10.1177/000306516701500401. PMID 4170516. S2CID 33386502. Also available here. ^ Mahler, Margaret S. (1963). "Thoughts about development and individuation". The Psychoanalytic Study of the Child. 18: 307–324. doi:10.1080/00797308.1963.11822933. PMID 14147283. Abstract also printed as: Mahler, Margaret S. (1975), "334. MAHLER, MARGARET SCHOENBERGER. Thoughts about development and individuation. 18:307-324, 1963", in Eissler, Ruth S. (ed.), The Psychoanalytic Study of the Child, volumes 1-25: abstracts and index, New Haven: Yale University Press, p. 222. Preview. ^ Morrigan, Danu You're Not Crazy - It's Your Mother: Understanding and Healing for Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers ^ Bailey-Rug C (2014) It's All About ME! The Facts About Maternal Narcissism ^ Wakefield, M. (5 July 2023). "The Role of Triangulation in the Narcissistic Abuse Cycle". Narcissistic Abuse Rehab. Retrieved 19 July 2023. Triangulation can also occur in families. Research shows that children who experience destabilizing triangulation "feel caught, trapped, or torn between parents". (Franck & Buehler, 2007).
对的，我这会儿是住外面酒店了，找了个借口出来缓解两天。
我爸其实不是完全不做家务，他负责每天的早饭，熬小米粥，蒸馒头（馒头他自己有空时做了冷冻起来的），做一份新鲜蔬菜、煮鸡蛋。另外不时会拖拖地。每一年擦窗户这些大扫除的部分。他自己衣服也自己洗、或者自己用洗衣机洗。
应该引起不满还是多年不怎么提供情绪价值。
他曾经说过多次“我一辈子都说你妈好，但你妈没说过一句我的好话。”
我爸他确实有些享乐派，比较容易专注那些“虚”的东西，也很容易接受新潮、对花钱（或者说省钱）不怎么有概念。他也确实不担事、不操心。也许这些都是完全和我妈相反的。
我自己14岁离家住校，基本上就没有多少和他们长期相处的经历和时间。我等于自己有了一个体系，等再和他们相处，确实会看到其中很多问题。
我曾经想去改变但不可能。
2019年，也是暑期回国探亲，我爆发了一次，就是当面指出我妈这样做不对，然后也说了狠话，大意就是明年我可能不一定有时间回国。那次我到临走都没有完全从态度上原谅我妈。然后2020疫情开始，那个夏天真的回不去了，接下来4年都没能回去。中间对他们无数担忧、想念，后悔说出那样的话。一切又回到原点。
我平时一周跟他们视频两次，即使在视频里，我妈也是在数落我爸。
而且你妈还向外倾倒情绪垃圾，你爸起码做到了对环境无害。
我觉得红包事件比较能看到本质，你妈缺乏幸福的能力，拿着一样的红包却啥也不做，自己不会制造快乐，还要看到你爸快乐就来气。
MM不容易
你就跟妈妈说，大家知道她的辛苦，爸爸这一辈子都老了，改不了，就随便爸爸去吧。（不要让她感觉你站在爸爸这一头，也不是不理解她，而是为了自己过的开心点，就放手别管那么多了）
然后告诉妈妈你很想念她，好不容易带孩子回来了，大家开开心心一起过，回去了又很久不能见面了
（至于你爸爸，干活看着也不错，馒头都能自己做好，衣服也是自己洗。他出门旅游拍照也算是身心放松的一种方式）
你就多安慰你妈妈看开点，就是顺着她的时候说，理解她劝解她。这一辈子都晚年了，更需要好好珍惜过好日子
我感觉人家老两口过得挺好的，各自都找到了让自己舒服或者习惯了的位置，两个人都不想离婚 是你自己的情绪受到你母亲的很大的影响，而且你不知道如何去排解这些情绪
请钟点工可解至少一半的烦恼
说实话 身边的人能有同理共情的能力，是幸运 没有，也就是个正常 越早懂得自己的情绪自己管理，自己的需求自己满足 越能早摆脱受制于他人的命运
你媽媽離不開你爸爸也是因爲投入太多了，投資成本太大，你讓她現在撤資那是萬萬不愿意的。她可能也沒聽過沉沒成本這個詞。你解釋給她聽聽？
我非常理解你，我家有老人是跟你妈妈类似的
但程度没有那么重
可也已经非常让子女难受了，我父母在不用日常照顾那位老人之后，毫不夸张的看起来起码年轻了十岁
你婆婆得了老年性精神病了，要带去好好看病吃药的。
我们也知道，走的近的亲戚也都知道，但是没办法啊，她自己不承认自己有问题，我老公也不是个强硬的人，不想让他妈伤心难过，很避讳提看医生这事儿。我们作为外人，就更不好给意见了。
老年性精神病早期有哪些症状，怎么吃药这里有描述。 你婆婆已经出现妄想已经不是早期的了，不容易。 精神疾病患者一般都是无自知力的，也就是说，无论外人看来多荒谬，患者本人都会对疾病的体验信以为真，且坚信不疑。此时，家属很难说服患者接受其有精神症状的事实，更难以让其主动、自觉地服药。而精神疾病，药物治疗是最直接有效的办法。但有的老人会强烈抗拒，如果家人坚持让她吃药，她就会认为家人也要害她。 面对这样的老人，家属可以善意的“变通”一下，比如将药物解释为“营养神经的药”，则更可能接受。或者使用一些液体药物，在医生的指导下，为老人“暗服”。精神症状好转后，自知力也会逐渐恢复，此时再和老人解释精神科药物治疗的必要性，老人大多能够接受。 早期表现对于及时发现疾病很有意义，很多患者的病情是经过一段时间的发展，才到了比较严重的程度，进而出现幻觉、妄想的症状。所以，家属要注意观察老人的情绪、睡眠、记忆、饮食以及人际交往，如果在没有明显诱因的情况下出现明显的改变，就需要警惕老人是否患有精神疾病。
来源：老年健康报 文：北京回龙观医院精神科副主任医师 宋崇升 https://m.sohu.com/a/555611931_162422/?pvid=000115_3w_a
这里还提到“老年精神疾病患者早期还可能出现情绪持续低落，但与处境明显不符的情况。比如，家里衣食无忧，家庭关系融洽，但老人就是觉得委屈难过，高兴不起来。”
是的。我妈是这样的。回家时她都觉得我在网上雇了人去暗杀她。多少年如一日的生活在恐惧中。很可怜。
不是这样。没有那么容易。医生不见到病人是不给开药的。我妈近二十年没有去医院了。我们甚至考虑过诱骗她去医院住院看医生。但病人不去别人不能绑架的。 她正常饮食都觉得有毒，不可能骗他吃药的。 早期就是疯狂抱怨我爸及其家庭二十年，一切都是他得错，编造他出轨，性病。后来精神不正常了。被害妄想。发展很慢。但阶段性进展。持续，不可逆的加重。
估计是不甘心和报复吧。女人年轻时付出了很多，年老色衰时再离开也找不到更好的人了。一方面明事理情商在线的靠谱男人这个年龄都在婚姻中，只要有孩子，轻易不会离婚；另一方面，好的夫妻关系是过去十几二十几年从青葱时代的积累，四五十岁以后很难再重新开始了--- 类似时过境迁，刻舟求剑 --- 遇到真诚而匹配的人概率太小了。 男人有点小钱也还能找到年轻女人真心过日子，女人很难。时间对女人很不公平。 单身男人住house不会有安全顾虑，单身女人多数人就劝住公寓。体力方面女人也处于劣势。 多数女人又对孩子比男人上心、牵挂。
所以如果女人没找对人，又在没明白之前生了孩子，悲剧就会上演。操劳二十年，年老色衰。离婚吧，过去付出付流水，自己也很难再找到合适的人，独居安全都成问题，而男的却很有可能找到人继续逍遥，想想就恨意难平；不离婚吧，二十积怨难消，男的没有改变的话，怨恨还会继续积累。怎么能不满腹怨气呢？
可悲的人生啊。
看看现在医护到家能不能把医生请到家里来评估，不然全家痛苦。 现在精神科也可以网络视屏了。 这人看老年精神科，你家在上海的话可以开通私人医生，一个月1200RBM， 3个月2880， 一年服务8640元 https://m.haodf.com/doctor/72608.html 不在上海就看看好大夫别地方医生有没有开通私人医生。 也可以打开医护到家APP看看你们那有没有医生上门服务。
你看这里对私人医生服务的详细描写，可以定期上门体检，紧急情况一个电话马上指导并上门 https://m.haodf.com/neirong/wenzhang/16464.html
更可悲的是在家里做那么多，孩子也讨厌她，觉得她烦人。刀子嘴豆腐心的女人不如自己少干点事，每天甜蜜蜜，把自己搞好，自己打扮漂亮，多花点时间锻炼运动保持好身材，多花点钱旅游看世界开阔眼界，好好上班有个好事业，老了有自己的养老钱，不靠子女不靠老公，看看板上某些人对父母的言论，有的还怪父母没钱托举，没钱给买房等等，就知道时间、精力、钱花在自己身上最值得。花在家里琐事中，老了白头多说点唠叨些，就会引起别人的反感。年轻时笑颜如花，老了唠叨狰狞脸谁都不待见了。何必苦了自己？ 当然有的女的一辈子就是在家靠父母，婚后靠老公，老了有出息的子女帮着，一辈子也过得很好。都是命！看板上子女对父母的评论，哪种情况多很清楚啊。
我就是单纯想谢谢这个层主，在很多帖子里提供了很多中国的医疗信息，我觉得很有帮助，相信也有人和我一样受益了但还没有来得及表示感谢。
我主要是家人在国内，又经常和母亲聊天，有的是我母亲对我说的，我以前也不知道急诊进门可以找护工一对一帮着推车做检查，拿药等，还有医护上门服务。今天早上和母亲聊天，她说80岁以上老人一个月在社区养老驿站有免费剪指甲一次，她是花钱买的，因为没有到80岁。这些我以前都不知道：） 也谢谢在这里分享任何信息的别的网友💐
医护上门服务这部分能讲详细一点吗？
谢谢啦。
—/—-/——————- 往后翻到了你前面的回贴，关于医护到家app， ,apple store一搜类似的app有好多，层主说的具体是哪个？还是都差不多？
你看这个医生对私人医生服务的详细描写，可以定期上门体检，紧急情况一个电话马上指导并上门 https://m.haodf.com/neirong/wenzhang/16464.html 医护到家APP你上去看看，还有的三甲医院弄了互联网医疗你自己Google一下三甲医院互联网医疗，还有的就是社区驿站医护到家服务。你可以搜一下自己家乡的。
谢谢回答。
因为沉没成本已经太高了，现在不放弃的多种原因里一大部分是报复心理了。 lz妈妈可能还有残存的念想，盼着LZ爸爸能变好（关心体贴她），但这基本不可能 -- 所以lz妈妈不停的怨恨唠叨； 但lz妈妈又不能离婚，离婚了可能物质生活质量下降，连个说话人、听她唠叨的人也没了，而且lz爸爸很可能再找个人，不光不唠叨他，还可能还能奉承他的 -- 只要lz爸爸给人经济上的好处、彼此又没有积怨，靠谱的人当然会知道感恩，所以lz爸爸生活可能会更happy，这样光想想就会让lz妈妈生气，所以她也不愿离婚。
因为女人年轻时容易为家庭孩子多付出，多吃亏，男人如果一直都不能提供情绪价值，或者足够的经济价值，几年后女人就会变成怨妇。
为什么普通家庭男人到老时容易潇洒不会像女人那么痛苦，一是男人年轻时多是沾女人光，他得到的家庭服务、子女抚养的价值远超他年轻时提供的经济价值；二是男人多数比较自私，心宽，只要自己舒服就行了，生活中不会过多考虑各种事情对子女的影响。因为除了经济方面，相对来说男人在整个婚姻生活中基本总是沾光，也不会在事业、家庭上作出什么牺牲，所以男人不会有经年的积怨郁闷，不会唠叨，更容易快乐。
有钱的男人除外，他们可以给女人经济补偿，明事理的女人也就不会有很多唠叨抱怨。
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