看了下原文, 四分之三的受调查者回复了,比例不低了,数据不算太偏。就算四分之一没回复的全部不考虑离开, 那考虑离开的也50%了,一半科学家考虑离开美国,这比例也很高了! The massive changes in US research brought about by the new administration of President Donald Trump are causing many scientists in the country to rethink their lives and careers. More than 1,200 scientists who responded to a Nature poll — three-quarters of the total respondents — are considering leaving the United States following the disruptions prompted by Trump. Europe and Canada were among the top choices for relocation.
回复 1楼 westlake 的帖子 But many more scientists had not planned on relocating, until Trump began gutting funding and firing researchers. “This is my home — I really love my country,” says a graduate student at a top US university who works in plant genomics and agriculture. “But a lot of my mentors have been telling me to get out, right now.” This student lost her research support and her stipend when the Trump administration shut down funding for the US Agency for International Development. Her adviser found emergency funds to support her in the short term, but she is scrambling to apply for teaching-assistant positions — now extremely competitive — to carry her through the rest of her programme. She had already been considering doing a postdoctoral fellowship abroad because of her interest in international agriculture. Losing her funding and watching some of her colleagues get fired solidified that into a plan of action. “Seeing all of the work stopped is heartbreaking,” she says. “I’ve been looking very diligently for opportunities in Europe, Australia and Mexico.” The student hopes to return to the United States in the future if the upheaval in the research landscape settles down. But for now, the Trump administration “has made it very clear” that her area of interest, global food systems, “is not going to be a priority or a focus”, she says. “If I want to work in that space, I’m going to have to find somewhere else that prioritizes that.” Private US funding, such as through philanthropy, is an option, but she anticipates that she would be competing with a glut of formerly federally funded projects.
回复 30楼 ecaeca 的帖子 哦。的确不是第一个。但20世纪,美国设定的research University 的model and standard 绝对是世界领先的。也就是说19世纪末,John Hopkins 出世后,美国的欧洲改良版给美国未来的各种霸权带来了许多许多的人才。 这和一个国家的格局和视野高度分不开。 以前美国就是可以说是在多方面是创新,是高瞻远瞩的代名词。 这个文化不回归,美国没救了。显然这不是现在这一届领导在致力干的事情。
这个比例,当年纳粹德国有多少科学家离开?
后者的话,也太夸张了
不过many of the 1608 respondedents who answered, 有biased吧? 本身想回复的大都是有concern的
The massive changes in US research brought about by the new administration of President Donald Trump are causing many scientists in the country to rethink their lives and careers. More than 1,200 scientists who responded to a Nature poll — three-quarters of the total respondents — are considering leaving the United States following the disruptions prompted by Trump. Europe and Canada were among the top choices for relocation.
主要是博士生博士后,很大比例是国际学生,真正的faculty很少,另外即使要离开美国,他们也发现其实没有其他地方可去,加拿大和欧洲是首选,但是加拿大自己本身研究经费都在挣扎,欧洲想趁这一波挖点墙角,但位置有限。多数美国教授还是在等待四年以后希望可以纠正,毕竟家庭事业都在美国,想要连根拔起搬到别的国家,语言文化都需要重新适应,并不是那么容易的。
搬去中国就容易吗?非华人的美国科研人员搬去中国根本就不现实,华人科研人员确实有一小部分在国内优厚的条件面前动了回去的心思,但也是在两相比较个人利益的前提下做出的决定。 回去给给title, 大量启动经费,管理岗位(院长,系主任,研究中心之类的),孩子也已经读大学了或者孩子还小,没上学,这样的情况可能会有人考虑。其他的,限于各种私人原因,回国的吸引力并不大。
另一个角度来说,最近Nature, Science以及其他媒体多篇有关美国brain drain的报道,其实也是制造舆论给政府施压,大学本来就是民主党左派占主流,有少数人因为政治原因决定搬去其他国家也是完全可能的,但绝非主流,绝非很大数量,绝非短期内会出现的现象。
现在的博士生博士后,十年后就是这个国家科研的主力,你觉得这是什么后果?
当然,如果你觉得十年后美国的科学应该主要是神学研究,和研究伟大领袖如何伟大,当我没说
我觉得影响不大,暂时现象,我在STEM领域,博士生入学并未有什么显著影响。今年某些大学,私立为主,确实暂时减了招生名额,但大家基本上认为这是处于经费保守的考虑,也认为这是短期现象。你要搞清楚,目前政策都处于博弈阶段,其实谁也搞不清楚一两年后会怎么样。但更大概率是最后大家发现,其实变化并不大的。川普签了那么多行政命令,你看看有几条是实际在执行的?大多数被法院block或者暂缓执行了。
大家只是担忧这种不确定性,但这只会短期现象。
种庄稼就抢种、抢收那几天,你错过了春天植苗,还想着秋天收获吗?
人家博后找不到美国教职,在其他国家找到了,还能回来吗? 人家优秀的人在美国申请不到博士,去别的国家读博了,三五年内还能回来吗?
文革十年教育断档,影响中国多长时间缓不过来? 川普四年, 一半文革时间了。
不着急,班农说正在准备做第三任,8年够了
你比美国大学都着急
是为美国未来着急。
博士=科学家?那本版的科学家也多了去了吧。俗气钱坑,以及离婚坑婆媳坑的主角和看客们中,估计也乌压压的“科学家”😂
隔壁的,要是你家孩子,你不急?
魔幻。
没有小学生哪有中学生,没有大学生哪有教授,没有教授哪有科学家? 你是不是生下来就能跑,给你能的。
你孩子还小就觉得以后要搞科研了?
去中国,前天不是刚有一个广州百万年薪抢人才的帖子吗?
这些科学家,还有后面那个耶鲁博士生都可以去。说真的,为啥大家不去试一试呢?还有华人上很多唱衰美国,要给孩子布局中国的ID,骂美国骂trump不如赶紧行动起来。颜宁不就果断回去了,现在看人家这不走对了。
看美国走上歪路事不关己的是啥人?
对几个红州的观察,废除dei后基本都会开始废tenure。其实科研经费这个问题还有非政府资金来源,并不是最大的担忧。反而是tenure应该会在各个红州开始取消。
今天的博士生博士后,就是明天的faculty,博士生博士后都走了,明天美国就没有faculty了
这么简单的道理,真的需要掰开揉碎你才看得懂是嘛?
博士生博士后离开美国没地方可去?太好笑了,欧洲、中国、加拿大、澳洲,去哪不行,去了哪,哪的科研就会崛起,当年德国的学术中心地位就是这么转移到美国的
But many more scientists had not planned on relocating, until Trump began gutting funding and firing researchers. “This is my home — I really love my country,” says a graduate student at a top US university who works in plant genomics and agriculture. “But a lot of my mentors have been telling me to get out, right now.”
This student lost her research support and her stipend when the Trump administration shut down funding for the US Agency for International Development. Her adviser found emergency funds to support her in the short term, but she is scrambling to apply for teaching-assistant positions — now extremely competitive — to carry her through the rest of her programme.
She had already been considering doing a postdoctoral fellowship abroad because of her interest in international agriculture. Losing her funding and watching some of her colleagues get fired solidified that into a plan of action. “Seeing all of the work stopped is heartbreaking,” she says. “I’ve been looking very diligently for opportunities in Europe, Australia and Mexico.”
The student hopes to return to the United States in the future if the upheaval in the research landscape settles down. But for now, the Trump administration “has made it very clear” that her area of interest, global food systems, “is not going to be a priority or a focus”, she says. “If I want to work in that space, I’m going to have to find somewhere else that prioritizes that.” Private US funding, such as through philanthropy, is an option, but she anticipates that she would be competing with a glut of formerly federally funded projects.
极右想建立基列国,什么科研教育进步思想都是他们不想要的
7岁看到老? 他从小空间能力爆表,喜欢搭东西,3岁就在拆USB,5岁就用Cooper tape 做开关LED灯卡片,可以几个小时坐的住在那里搭建模型。 所以感觉这娃基本STEM 或科研没跑了?
抢人成功的背后是当时的美国战略眼光真的好,格局是真的大。可以读读research frontier paper . 第一个提出大学应该和科研结合,政府出钱这样的概念。 立马有志人才纷纷被吸引过去啦。
现在这个短时的无法直视了。
研究型大学的起源是洪堡(Humboldt)在普鲁士国王威廉三世支持下于1810年建立的柏林大学。美国的研究型大学都是受洪堡模式影响的。https://www.studocu.com/in/document/christ-deemed-to-be-university/english-language-and-composition-ii/idea-of-a-university-today/86713358
美国在国力上升期(直到二战)其实没什么创新性的科学研究成果,都是跟在先进的欧洲后面捡桃子。现在当然有人觉得历史可以再来一遍。
哦。的确不是第一个。但20世纪,美国设定的research University 的model and standard 绝对是世界领先的。也就是说19世纪末,John Hopkins 出世后,美国的欧洲改良版给美国未来的各种霸权带来了许多许多的人才。
这和一个国家的格局和视野高度分不开。 以前美国就是可以说是在多方面是创新,是高瞻远瞩的代名词。
这个文化不回归,美国没救了。显然这不是现在这一届领导在致力干的事情。
你是中文理解有问题吗?我只是评论下博士在华人不是个稀罕学历罢了。我有一个字提到教授吗?你的中文是体育老师教的吧。
博士博士后都走掉了,那不就断层了吗?
美国博士太多了 好多华人印度博士都在装修 房地产 加油站 重要的话说三遍 西方国家的博士太多了 西方国家的博士太多了 西方国家的博士太多了
走吧,把位置空出来,我们这些大龄博士刚好填上
好像人家会要你填坑似的
坑都没了!
重视?cut搞教育,科研,怎么个重视? 本来就没本地人稀罕做,这下更是没人愿意了。
同意这个,在美国都搞不到funding了, 去别的国家能搞到? 最好这75%的人都离开美国,有走就有来。就怕他们不走,就嘴上说说。
别忘了疮之前还干过四年。加上这一届四年,如果Vance 又成为下届总统甚至连任,是比文革更大的浩劫
美国700万博士 如果600万都走了 美国的科研 教学 应用 都不会受到影响 想走的 那就行动吧