你的意思是说，朱令的室友说自己拿着她的洗发水去公共浴室洗澡，然后丢了？还是说朱令自己丢的？要知道，朱令当时神智不清，人可还没死，毒也解了。她们怎知她能恢复到什么程度？ 一年明月 发表于 2023-12-31 21:45
。。啥。。 lz回复的层主认为杯子洗不干净 lz的回复认为杯子洗干净了（我倾向于当时的技术无法检出清洗后杯子上的铊残留，现在可能可以检测出来吧，但没有大妈说出一个具体的方法，而证物如果没有被妥善保存，到现在也没法形成一个证据链） 那为什么孙不处理好了鸟么悄放回去 我觉得一个切入点是盗窃案 另一个切入点是铊的来源，朱爸，律师方好像到现在也没有披露过具体能把孙办了的信息，事情发生了必然有痕迹，而目前我没有看到一点痕迹 比如铊的来源，搞不清楚，甩锅清华管理不善。再管理不善，一些纸质材料还是有的。比如购买记录，保存记录，实验记录。 铊的形式，溶液，粉末，固体。这些对案件侦破非常重要的细节，没一个有进展的。 后续推测出朱令摄入剂量大概有1g左右。我看有文章推测根据当时孙所在实验室铊溶液需要半罐可乐那么多。。那基本有个125ml。算上损耗，孙直接偷出一瓶剧毒液体。。却没有留下任何线索不离谱吗。。如何保存？怎么丢弃? 如果说破案需要掌握60%的事实，朱案显然连10%的进度都没有。。 前边我看一贴说有证人证言。。贝的证词算吗？贝自己还说他完全不认识孙呢。朱爸妈证词?他俩自述到06年才在心理上认定是孙。室友同学，不早说是和孙铁板一块的洗地党。孙自己说自己做的，显然没有。。 我就纳了闷了。怎么就清清楚楚。。明明是不清不楚。。案情不清不楚，凶手不清不楚。但总有人觉得清清楚楚是孙维干的。。😂 LiuX 发表于 2023-12-31 22:02
你们可以再读一遍。。 我的意思是，凶手如果是同寝室的人，应该会在非常早的时间销毁毒源。朱令3月入院到4月底都没销毁毒源。这是为了留下证据，坑死自己，还是为了留个毒源在自己身边，毒倒其他人和自己。。 我推理的是，有两个可能： 1毒源在宿舍失窃物品中，为什么要用“失窃”这么高风险的形式销毁毒源，我能得到的合理解释是： 失窃是凶手唯一能消除毒源的手段，因此冒着巨大的风险也要做，比如毒源无法通过清洗或者悄悄换掉去除（假设室友是凶手，这两个方法更优选）。 2毒源不在失窃物品中，那警方一直没找到是因为技术限制，还是因为什么原因？可能的毒源是不是在外部而非内部? LiuX 发表于 2023-12-31 21:10
朱令是在95年4月底才确定是铊中毒的，后边2年都没有啥进展，直到97年4月第一次审讯孙维。。 其他人是要怎么知道这些细节的。。 铊中毒，有人投毒，投毒者可能是室友，投毒的地点在宿舍。（最后两点到现在还在争论。。） LiuX 发表于 2023-12-31 21:22
当时有个情况是：大家用的是公共澡堂。。洗浴用品（甚至其他生活用品，热水瓶）我看了一个知情人回忆是摆在一起的。比如朱令后期直接喝室友打在室友热水瓶里的水。我个人觉得处理这些东西，难度不大。至少不比折腾出一盗窃案难度大。 理由：洗发水在公共澡堂里丢失。隐形眼镜这种小东西，更是好解释了，可能就收到哪个包或怎么着了。 在没人意识到是投毒的时候，处理这些东西太简单了，没人会刻意去留意物品所在的位置。即使留意了，也没有证据，最多结论是不明原因丢失。总比有风声了，出来整一盗窃案来得简单。 至于投毒者能轻松接触毒源， 我认为早早清除的可能比留着，小心不去碰它。。更合逻辑。。 盗窃案不是编造来搪塞警方的。有一个回忆里披露了细节，比如啥钱撒了一地，这些。投毒案难搞，盗窃案可太好破了。。 LiuX 发表于 2023-12-31 21:37
其实没人知道朱令的东西什么时候没的。 警方要查了，弄出来个盗窃案。 类似粮仓着火的操作。。。 page394 发表于 2023-12-31 22:15
因为你的智商让你很难理解的清清楚楚 这很难理解么？ 你从头到尾 我倾向于不行 我觉得不对 你谁啊？ joyce612 发表于 2023-12-31 22:13
方舟子说的这个推论怎么能否定掉，在线等答案，在和人争论中。 方舟子 我根据最新发现的资料重新计算一下，朱令第一次中毒时间最可能在7月中旬，不晚于8月上旬，就是在暑假期间。 公用马甲1 发表于 2023-12-31 23:03
根据头发生长推测投毒时间是有误差的。这个方舟子就是个搅浑水的！ firstautumn 发表于 2023-12-31 23:05
钱撒了一地就是真的，你比警方还好骗。 page394 发表于 2023-12-31 22:21
你给流氓讲道理，流氓给你讲歪理。 你给流氓析歪理，流氓给你讲逻辑。 你给流氓讲逻辑，流氓给你讲法律。 你给流氓讲法律，流氓笑你没证据。 不用理那个 "牛X"等，越回它们，它们就越来劲。不是铊党，就是借此来吸引注意力自我陶醉的。 还有那个姓方的，人品为负，放的臭屁都有人当圣旨到处贴。不知道怎么想的？ Havealook 发表于 2023-12-31 23:15
411（+-53）微米每天 tues 发表于 2023-12-31 23:34
虽然我知道你是楼里的某个人披上了公共马甲，我因为大过节的，我还是回答你一下。朱令不同于凡人，头发不能参考亚洲女性。7厘米的头发，其中第一个最高峰是在3.9厘米处，当时是十月，看过两次医生。头发掉光差不多是12月20日。也就是说在中铊毒这么严重的情况下，两月长了3.1厘米。前边第一个小波峰在头发的0.8厘米左右处，3.9-0.8也是3.1厘米。这个阶段毒量小，按道理头发长的应该更快点，应该不需要俩月。自己去算是不是八月底或九月初中的毒？！ 笑望人生 发表于 2023-12-31 23:18
转一篇文章，作者叫张中祥，是位有名的经济学学者。 ……. 这一年，发生了太多的事，许多天灾人祸导致亲人与我们而别，也有许许多多的巨人离我们而去，无论是国家、企业还是个人，2023年都不容易。 但令自己最痛心的还是清华铊中毒案的受害者朱令的离去，实在不甘心就这样告别中年，开启“60后”的生活。 对我们上世纪六十年代出生的人，后来有机会接受高等教育的，多是在八十年代完成高等教育的。朱令案就发生在我们这代人事业开始步入正轨、结婚生子的风华正茂之时，但一直到我们这代人逐渐离开工作岗位步入退休生活时，朱令案件至死未破，凶手仍然没有绳之以法，让我们这代人和所有关心此案的有正义感的人，心中悲愤，意实难平。 常言道，只要持续努力，还是会make a difference的！这话没错，但势/选择比努力重要。我们上世纪六十年代出生的人，少部分人赶上上山下乡的尾巴，绝大部分与改开共同成长，得益于改革开放，得益于相对宽松、有规矩的大环境，不计其数的同龄人在透支了个人健康建设国家、推动国家快速发展的同时，也取得了不凡成就、享受了其他年龄段不曾有的红利。个人的努力是一方面，但大环境发挥着重要作用。 在我们这代人逐渐告别历史舞台，虽然知道比我们年轻的或我们的后代将面临方方面面竞争更加剧烈的时代，但至少希望他们能够生活在一个有法可依的环境，即使没有什么大的成就，也能平平安安地度过一生。 朱令案就这么过去了，对朱令和她家庭不公：30年不仅她本人遭受那么多痛苦，她的父母所遭受的压力、痛苦和折磨世人更是难以想象；我们也不放心。 因此，斗胆提出以下建议： 一是，希望政府或有公信力的组织或部门，能组织有正义感、中立的专业人士全面、重新评估一下这个案情，有无必要、有无可能重审？建议无论结果如何，把不涉及国家安全的与案件审理所有相关的材料，公布于众。 二是，鉴于清华大学在朱令案中（在保护严重危险品、在朱令父母告知学校铊中毒后保护现场和保护学生等方面）负有不可推卸的责任，强烈建议朱令案要记载在清华大学校史大事年纪里，要记载在中国教育大事年纪里，要记载在中国法治建设的大事年纪里。让所有的后人铭记，法治面前人人平等，法治社会是用血的代价一点一滴建立起来的。 都说正义也许会迟到，但不会缺失，这次真的能这样吗？ carollife 发表于 2024-01-01 00:01
。。就什么也不用说。。 和盗窃案发了一样表示不知情就完了。 回一下195楼。 驳不达目的不会丢弃毒源的理由： 如果是很容易接触毒物，又有机会接触朱，完全可以先处理好再三次投毒（根据之前二次投毒的犯罪惯性）。 朱令这大病一场，回不回得来，回来了会不会继续用这些东西，铊稀释这么多倍又没妥善保管还有没有毒性能达到目的。 当然也可以说这个凶手没有想这么多，但一个犯案破洞百出不用大脑，事后却能收拾得一点痕迹都没有，是不是很反常。 LiuX 发表于 2023-12-31 22:12
没见过这么阴毒的，拿铊当补药下给朱令，好让她那天上不了台。 可惜算盘落空，朱令弹奏的视频会一直流传下去，反衬出一帮铊党颜丑心毒、无丝毫人性。 Havealook 发表于 2023-12-31 23:38
因为毒药在营养品里面， 所以演奏会之前因为要多补补， 从而就摄入了大量的铊。 这意思明白了么 tues 发表于 2024-01-01 15:32
演奏会之前，导致朱令暂时失明的铊峰值更高，但是没有引起消化道不适，专家判断是黏膜或皮肤摄入。（我有个设想是与八月底开始的铊中毒同一个毒源，平时皮肤摄入所以进入身体的量少，高峰的那次不小心接触了黏膜。没药花园猜测可能是皮肤破损了，也是认为是同一个非食物毒源）。 一二九演出左右伴随消化道反应，说明毒源第一次转移到了食物，且从后面的中毒方式一直是食物，这显然是凶手的有意决策。毒药在营养品里有什么依据吗？据没药花园考证，朱令喝的壮骨粉是小袋包装，不容易混入的。 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 15:53
中药投毒的可能性是99%。这样即使发现，还可以甩锅到朱令到外边热的中药。在中药内投毒还有一个原因，就是中药味道太太大了。估计孙铊太不爽了，就下了猛料。 笑望人生 发表于 2024-01-01 16:01
这是2018年朱令头发铊含量分析文章的图二，头发铊含量对应头发生长时间以日为单位做的图 图中最高峰作者也认为是十月份的，对应朱令短暂失明。 图上可以看到，这个峰94天距离第一个铊峰： 19天， 相差75天。 即使我们采取最宽松的算法，把十月份这个峰放到十月最后一天，75-31（10月天数）-30（9月天数）=14天；第一个铊峰出现在八月16日前后。 所以，朱令第一次中毒，最晚也在八月中，而不是八月底九月初。要早就可能早到七月份了。要看十月这个峰的具体时间，假定这个峰和朱令十月份失明就医相关。 平明寻白羽 发表于 2024-01-01 16:06
你发这个有个P用？我都告诉你了，别人云亦云，得自己用心，动脑思考。数据不会造假，但是同样的数据可以得出不同的结论。我的结论就是通过这副图的数据得出来的。 笑望人生 发表于 2024-01-01 16:16
我现在比较关心那个滚在床底被孙维找回的杯子。^_^ 我原本以为杯子的失踪是一个意外事件，但是有个网友说，微量的铊可以和金属杯子做等离子交换并有现成的仪器可以检测微量的铊，那确实可以理解为什么当时凶手不敢交给警察。之后从床底滚出来的时候肯定已经保证查不出铊的痕迹了。 这件事情明确地告诉我们，食物的投毒使用过杯子，但只是不知道杯里是什么。如果想遮盖味道的话，咖啡也是不错的选择。朱令父母有提到过朱令物品中的蜂蜜和咖啡失窃，说明她是有喝咖啡的习惯的。但是这些细节除非罪犯供认，否则是无法知道的。 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 16:12
你这里算错了朱令头发的生长速度，不是按两个峰值比对出来的，而是按亚洲女性平均生长速度估计的，误差比论文里大很多。再说了，有网友指出清华当年暑假有小学期，证明在暑假也不能证明没开学，即使证明没开学，也不能证明凶手没有把毒下在朱令会从宿舍带回家的生活用品中啊。纠结这个意义不大。^_^ 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 16:20
自己用脑袋想想，是我算错了还是方铊算错了。你以为我和方铊一样蠢啊！ 笑望人生 发表于 2024-01-01 16:25
同学，你引用错了 🤣 再仔细看看，我是说方舟子算错了头发的生长速度 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 16:27
我再和你说一下，论文纯粹为了发表而产生的。不要以为论文作者比我们🐮，谁还没发表过论文？！7厘米的头发生长期170天，本身就是猜测。我告诉你好几次啦！我是用的扫描出来的实验数据，不是用的作者的结论。自己用脑袋想想，是我算错了还是方铊算错了。你以为我和方铊一样蠢啊！ 笑望人生 发表于 2024-01-01 16:25
把你的计算方法详细写出来呗 平明寻白羽 发表于 2024-01-01 16:31
re LiuX 发表于 2024-01-01 16:33
论文作者说的是八月底啊 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 16:31
你这里算错了朱令头发的生长速度，不是按两个峰值比对出来的，而是按亚洲女性平均生长速度估计的，误差比论文里大很多。再说了，有网友指出清华当年暑假有小学期，证明在暑假也不能证明没开学，即使证明没开学，也不能证明凶手没有把毒下在朱令会从宿舍带回家的生活用品中啊。纠结这个意义不大，主要是因为铊的来源已经定性了，来自清华化学系。^_^ 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 16:20
误伤，误伤，被不知是真蠢还是假蠢气坏了！ 笑望人生 发表于 2024-01-01 16:30
这不是我算的，是根据2018年作者论文里的图得出的结论 这是极端最宽泛算法，把最高峰放到了十月三十一日算，朱令第一次中毒都在八月十六日左右。 而实际上，这个峰只可能比十月三十一日更早，也就是说朱令第一次中毒可能更早于八月十六日。 摆出你的数据，计算和推理呗 数据和逻辑最有说服力 说说2018年作者和方是哪里算错了。 越详细的反驳越好，要数据，要计算，要数据出处文献。 平明寻白羽 发表于 2024-01-01 16:36
论文作者已经写了啊，见我一楼引用的图片。你到底有没有看整篇的论文，还是就希望逮住一句片言只语方便要你想要的答案？ 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 16:33
我仔细读了2018年论文，注意到了图二和图五的不一致。 平明寻白羽 发表于 2024-01-01 16:39
你再读一下，论文里解释了这个不一致： “尽管有诸多不确定因素，我们还是在结合考虑了朱令周日在家、媒体报道中情况好转、情况恶化、脱发事件、头发生长速度各种因素后，对以上图标进行了校准。 根据我们排列的图表，朱令头发生长是高于平均值的，我认为这也符合她21岁，国家运动员的健康体格。 这也就意味着，下面那条线在尾部（脱落时间）固定在某个点后，或许要微微向右缩短。“ 看下截图吧please，不是人拉黑你，实在你没有在听啊。论文不是断章取义这么看的。 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 16:44
具体计算摆出来 平明寻白羽 发表于 2024-01-01 16:46
数据说话，不要用文字 平明寻白羽 发表于 2024-01-01 16:47
221楼，我说了三次了 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 16:47
伸手党，我也是服气了。再见 🤣 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 16:49
一较真儿就都跑了？ 平明寻白羽 发表于 2024-01-01 16:51
不是跑了，你杠你对。^_^ 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 16:54
你的数据呢？ 平明寻白羽 发表于 2024-01-01 16:55
lz 我想楼上是说要找笑望要数据和计算 笑望怼你算的是错的 然后匿了 她昨天跟我说了一个计算方法 我问了几个问题 她也直接跑了 我不知道她怼天怼地的原因 但对于计算 我觉得肘子和原作者的计算都没问题 就是参考标准不一样 我觉得肘子的比较标准一点 因为他参考亚洲女性头发生长速度考虑了最快和最慢的两种情况 我觉得lz直接引用原作没问题 笑望。。我不明白她怎么算的 也许是为了怼而怼 鉴于笑望到处喷人蠢 我想看看她的理由 LiuX 发表于 2024-01-01 17:00
另，我还是很好奇，铊能和不锈钢离子交换然后检测出来的手段。。 LiuX 发表于 2024-01-01 17:03
这是网友92m说的，我没有double check： 为什么要销毁朱令的律师说过铊会和其他元素发生置换所以不锈钢杯子也洗不干净的，更巧的是铊的检测是电子元件常见的杂质之一所以能做到非常微量的也可以检测出来 如果信息属实且物化系没学过，那么凶手懂得藏起杯子确实说明背后有强大的支持网。我之前阅读案情时对这个杯子的故事完全莫名其妙。^_^ 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 17:10
可以测。但是我感觉下在杯子里的概率不大，第一阶段看来是下在personal care products里了。至于原因，我跟某些没知识的猪脑子解释会太费劲了。略过 zzsummer 发表于 2024-01-01 17:09
杯子是障眼法，没下杯子里，这是用来转移注意力的。下在洗护用品啊眼镜液啊这些里了。杯子么就先找不到再找到啥的，这种你最后一测，八成是啥也没有。 zzsummer 发表于 2024-01-01 17:17
我又不靠这个自证清白，哪有那么多美国时间。🤣 想看数字的话，这个贴里有一层有个网友算了的，您慢慢翻一下吧 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 17:02
层主想说楼里哪些网友没知识，又猪脑子的。。 你说不出来拉倒，人身攻击谁呢。。 LiuX 发表于 2024-01-01 17:21
我认为笑望人生的估算和原作者的校准图是对的，和我估计的相同。她怼我是认错人了 😂 方舟子的算法误差区间大，因为没有试图去算朱令本人的头发生长速度。如果她们没说清楚，可能我也说不清。 一年明月 发表于 2024-01-01 17:05
所谓“校准”不是2018年作者做的，是写解读2018年文章的人自己的主观主张。 也没有提出任何数据和依据支持。 而是先有narrative, 再修改数据压缩朱令头发生长时间来吻合自己预设的时间线。 平明寻白羽 发表于 2024-01-01 17:26
那你说凶手是谁？搅浑水没用。 zzsummer 发表于 2024-01-01 17:29
没药花园写的是这个人自己对2018年文章的解读， 并没有尊重2018年文章作者的数据，属于修改原始数据来适应既定结论。 所谓的“校准”，也不是2018年作者做的，而是没药做的。依据是什么？数据和具体方法计算都没有给出。 不是一回事情。 平明寻白羽 发表于 2024-01-01 17:31
主要观点是啥？无非是sw八月份能不能进组弄到铊。按她自己的说法，人人都能弄到铊，那她没进组之前也可以弄到啊。这不矛盾。说不定她哥就进去弄了点出来啊哈哈 zzsummer 发表于 2024-01-01 17:35
对啊，对有预设立场的人，数据是没有用处的 可能性有无数，但是只有我认定那一个才是对的。 平明寻白羽 发表于 2024-01-01 17:40
你自己才有预设的立场，那就是抓住一切鸡毛蒜皮的洗地 zzsummer 发表于 2024-01-01 17:51
。。就什么也不用说。。 和盗窃案发了一样表示不知情就完了。
回一下195楼。 驳不达目的不会丢弃毒源的理由： 如果是很容易接触毒物，又有机会接触朱，完全可以先处理好再三次投毒（根据之前二次投毒的犯罪惯性）。 朱令这大病一场，回不回得来，回来了会不会继续用这些东西，铊稀释这么多倍又没妥善保管还有没有毒性能达到目的。 当然也可以说这个凶手没有想这么多，但一个犯案破洞百出不用大脑，事后却能收拾得一点痕迹都没有，是不是很反常。
因为你的智商让你很难理解的清清楚楚 这很难理解么？ 你从头到尾 我倾向于不行 我觉得不对 你谁啊？
其实没人知道朱令的东西什么时候没的。 警方要查了，弄出来个盗窃案。 类似粮仓着火的操作。。。
朱令95年确定中毒可不是静悄悄的。 作为互联网医学的poster child, 当时的杂志报纸上到处都是。 那么同寝的铊中毒了，不说是投毒，就一点不怀疑自己生活环境也可能中毒？哪怕是朱令自己误接触的毒，也有可能仍旧放在寝室哪里，共用的啥物品上吧？
钱撒了一地就是真的，你比警方还好骗。
这个说法我认同
如果是同寝作案 东西早没了
但是搞一个盗窃案到底为了啥
就不知道了
我就是我 一个噎死大妈的小机灵鬼儿
讲太对了，这人自己没法理解，这个理解力，叹气
方舟子
我根据最新发现的资料重新计算一下，朱令第一次中毒时间最可能在7月中旬，不晚于8月上旬，就是在暑假期间。
根据头发生长推测投毒时间是有误差的。这个方舟子就是个搅浑水的！
。。。合着不然有啥方式是没误差的。。。 至少肘子提供了一点线索。。 大妈来一个拍一个。。
肘子计算和逻辑我觉得没毛病，有毛病的是，朱令暑假中毒不能完全排除孙维的嫌疑。只能说是减轻嫌疑。
大妈不如说，孙可能暑假前偷了一瓶铊，搅和到朱令早晨奶粉里，朱令暑假回家她妈天天喊她喝奶粉。。所以暑假开始慢性中毒了。。后来回学校，孙又有机会加大剂量（或者就是累积效应）。。所以毒发。。
不用理那个 "牛X"等，越回它们，它们就越来劲。不是铊党，就是借此来吸引注意力自我陶醉的。 还有那个姓方的，人品为负，放的臭屁都有人当圣旨到处贴。不知道怎么想的？
虽然我知道你是楼里的某个人披上了公共马甲，我因为大过节的，我还是回答你一下。朱令不同于凡人，头发不能参考亚洲女性。7厘米的头发，其中第一个最高峰是在3.9厘米处，当时是十月，看过两次医生。头发掉光差不多是12月20日。也就是说在中铊毒这么严重的情况下，两月长了3.1厘米。前边第一个小波峰在头发的0.8厘米左右处，3.9-0.8也是3.1厘米。这个阶段毒量小，按道理头发长的应该更快点，应该不需要俩月。自己去算是不是八月底或九月初中的毒？！
是这样大妈以为自己在第二层，我在第一层。。大妈觉得我蠢。。 其实我在第三层。。我又无法让第二层的大妈看明白我在说啥。 我试着解释一下吧： 你认为我因为钱撒了一地，觉得真的发生了盗窃案。 我认为钱撒了一地，搞这么多小动作反而容易暴露凶手自己，凶手脑子不好，反正东西没都没了还画蛇添足。。 凶手这么多年没被抓到，我想铊可能在第五层。。大妈和我都不能理解。。而不是在零或负一层。。
说的太经典了，笑翻了
朱令不同于凡人，头发不能参考亚洲女性。 为什么。。不参考亚洲女性参考啥。 下文你参考的是峰值和就诊时间。。
7厘米的头发，其中第一个最高峰是在3.9厘米处，当时是十月，看过两次医生。头发掉光差不多是12月20日。也就是说在中铊毒这么严重的情况下，两月长了3.1厘米。前边第一个小波峰在头发的0.8厘米左右处，3.9-0.8也是3.1厘米。 这个阶段毒量小，按道理头发长的应该更快点，应该不需要俩月。 毒量小和头发生长速度的关联大妈有reference吗。
自己去算是不是八月底或九月初中的毒？！ 大妈没有参考值，要怎么计算。。“按道理”算？
大妈和肘子一样写篇文，我给大妈点赞转发评论。。跟肘子干。。
方舟子先解释一下自己老婆刘菊花论文被怀疑造假一案，很急，在线等🥴
411（+-53）微米每天
没见过这么阴毒的，拿铊当补药下给朱令，好让她那天上不了台。
可惜算盘落空，朱令弹奏的视频会一直流传下去，反衬出一帮铊党颜丑心毒、无丝毫人性。
完全同意，可惜估计这人也看不懂
另外，你这么干就是个反效果，会让中立或我这种本来就因为孙被网暴三十年而同情她的人感觉，倒孙大妈都是这素质。。
最后，朱令案关非嫌疑人室友家孩子屁事啊。。
你说得对，正好我在第一楼里引用的图不知道为什么挂了，就重新从没药花园的文章里截了中文版，这里也贴一下：
论文里之所以推断出八月下旬，我估计是将铊在头发里的峰值时间和朱令症状严重的时间对齐，做了一个校准，这样就得到了朱令头发的真正生长速度（论文指出，她的头发生长速度属于快的）。导致朱令失明的铊峰值出现在10月中，导致她腹痛的铊剂量峰值结束在十二月上中（12月12日她回家的时候），一共是稍小于两个月的时间。铊的第一个峰值与十二月的峰值基本是左右对称的状态，往前减两个月不到，毛估估可不就是八月底。我看不出论文作者犯了什么了不得的错误，但是说方舟子不是故意带节奏我是不信的 😅
话说回来，年后这贴俺就不回啦，要回去搬砖了。方舟子想怎样就怎样，清水下杂面，你吃我看见～
大家新年快乐
你给流氓讲道理，流氓给你扯歪理。 你给流氓析歪理，流氓给你扯逻辑。 你给流氓拼逻辑，流氓给你扯法律。 你给流氓谈法律，流氓笑你没证据。
所谓的关键物证都被流氓一伙早早销毁了，关键人证暂时也没有，这就是流氓一伙嚣张至极的原因。
…….
这一年，发生了太多的事，许多天灾人祸导致亲人与我们而别，也有许许多多的巨人离我们而去，无论是国家、企业还是个人，2023年都不容易。
但令自己最痛心的还是清华铊中毒案的受害者朱令的离去，实在不甘心就这样告别中年，开启“60后”的生活。
对我们上世纪六十年代出生的人，后来有机会接受高等教育的，多是在八十年代完成高等教育的。朱令案就发生在我们这代人事业开始步入正轨、结婚生子的风华正茂之时，但一直到我们这代人逐渐离开工作岗位步入退休生活时，朱令案件至死未破，凶手仍然没有绳之以法，让我们这代人和所有关心此案的有正义感的人，心中悲愤，意实难平。
常言道，只要持续努力，还是会make a difference的！这话没错，但势/选择比努力重要。我们上世纪六十年代出生的人，少部分人赶上上山下乡的尾巴，绝大部分与改开共同成长，得益于改革开放，得益于相对宽松、有规矩的大环境，不计其数的同龄人在透支了个人健康建设国家、推动国家快速发展的同时，也取得了不凡成就、享受了其他年龄段不曾有的红利。个人的努力是一方面，但大环境发挥着重要作用。 在我们这代人逐渐告别历史舞台，虽然知道比我们年轻的或我们的后代将面临方方面面竞争更加剧烈的时代，但至少希望他们能够生活在一个有法可依的环境，即使没有什么大的成就，也能平平安安地度过一生。
朱令案就这么过去了，对朱令和她家庭不公：30年不仅她本人遭受那么多痛苦，她的父母所遭受的压力、痛苦和折磨世人更是难以想象；我们也不放心。 因此，斗胆提出以下建议： 一是，希望政府或有公信力的组织或部门，能组织有正义感、中立的专业人士全面、重新评估一下这个案情，有无必要、有无可能重审？建议无论结果如何，把不涉及国家安全的与案件审理所有相关的材料，公布于众。 二是，鉴于清华大学在朱令案中（在保护严重危险品、在朱令父母告知学校铊中毒后保护现场和保护学生等方面）负有不可推卸的责任，强烈建议朱令案要记载在清华大学校史大事年纪里，要记载在中国教育大事年纪里，要记载在中国法治建设的大事年纪里。让所有的后人铭记，法治面前人人平等，法治社会是用血的代价一点一滴建立起来的。 都说正义也许会迟到，但不会缺失，这次真的能这样吗？
感谢转载。
放心，即使正义不到，也要相信善恶有报。
起码嫌犯那出生日的T三角月冥土，她这辈子也开心不到哪里。。。
你这是说到点子上了，犯案的漏洞百出，所以她才成了唯一嫌疑人，后来扣发毕业证，限制出国，凤凰网专访也被她半途终止。收拾的得一点痕迹都没有的不是孙一个人，而是因为人家祭出了爷爷这张王炸，案子直接就搁置了，现有的跟孙有关的疑点都无理由排除了，很难理解吗？ 回头再看看，朱家要求重启调查，物化二多数人签名要求重启调查，可是一直背着嫌疑人头衔的孙不肯签字。
因为毒药在营养品里面， 所以演奏会之前因为要多补补， 从而就摄入了大量的铊。 这意思明白了么
演奏会之前，导致朱令暂时失明的铊峰值更高，但是没有引起消化道不适，专家判断是黏膜或皮肤摄入。（我有个设想是与八月底开始的铊中毒同一个毒源，平时皮肤摄入所以进入身体的量少，高峰的那次不小心接触了黏膜。没药花园猜测可能是皮肤破损了，也是认为是同一个非食物毒源）。
一二九演出左右伴随消化道反应，说明毒源第一次转移到了食物，且从后面的中毒方式一直是食物，这显然是凶手的有意决策。毒药在营养品里有什么依据吗？据没药花园考证，朱令喝的壮骨粉是小袋包装，不容易混入的。
搅混水也要看怎么个搅法。
1. 朱令发病后吃的是祛毒的中药，跟补品没有任何关系。除非你甩出当年朱令中医手开的单子来。是哪些成份，开口胡扯没用。 2.一个演奏会对朱令来说只是小菜一碟，即便全身剧痛也发挥自如。只有孙大痣这种爱出风头的恶魔恐龙口水滴答，特别在意，嫉妒到了极点。这才加大了铊的计量好让朱令那天上不了台。这样孙恐龙候补才有临时顶上、在台上出风头的可能。
孙恐龙为那一天没准才吃了很多补药。不过再怎么补也是又矮又壮，土气冲天。
中药投毒的可能性是99%。这样即使发现，还可以甩锅到朱令到外边热的中药。在中药内投毒还有一个原因，就是中药味道太太大了。估计孙铊太不爽了，就下了猛料。
这是2018年朱令头发铊含量分析文章的图二，头发铊含量对应头发生长时间以日为单位做的图
图中最高峰作者也认为是十月份的，对应朱令短暂失明。
图上可以看到，这个峰94天距离第一个铊峰： 19天， 相差75天。
即使我们采取最宽松的算法，把十月份这个峰放到十月最后一天，75-31（10月天数）-30（9月天数）=14天；第一个铊峰出现在八月16日前后。
所以，朱令第一次中毒，最晚也在八月中，而不是八月底九月初。要早就可能早到七月份了。要看十月这个峰的具体时间，假定这个峰和朱令十月份失明就医相关。
我现在比较关心那个滚在床底被孙维找回的杯子。^_^ 我原本以为杯子的失踪是一个意外事件，但是有个网友说，微量的铊可以和金属杯子做等离子交换并有现成的仪器可以检测微量的铊，那确实可以理解为什么当时凶手不敢交给警察。之后从床底滚出来的时候肯定已经保证查不出铊的痕迹了。
这件事情明确地告诉我们，食物的投毒使用过杯子，但只是不知道杯里是什么。如果想遮盖味道的话，咖啡也是不错的选择。朱令父母有提到过朱令物品中的蜂蜜和咖啡失窃，说明她是有喝咖啡的习惯的。但是这些细节除非罪犯供认，否则是无法知道的。
你发这个有个P用？我都告诉你了，别人云亦云，得自己用心，动脑思考。数据不会造假，但是同样的数据可以得出不同的结论。我的结论就是通过这副图的数据得出来的。
你是方铊本铊吗？如果不是，你不自己思考，引用他的说法干嘛？
你这里算错了朱令头发的生长速度，不是按两个峰值比对出来的，而是按亚洲女性平均生长速度估计的，误差比论文里大很多。再说了，有网友指出清华当年暑假有小学期，证明在暑假也不能证明没开学，即使证明没开学，也不能证明凶手没有把毒下在朱令会从宿舍带回家的生活用品中啊。纠结这个意义不大，主要是因为铊的来源已经定性了，来自清华化学系。^_^
数据没造假，那朱令第一次中毒就不会晚于八月中旬对不对？
甚至可能更早
话说回来，从孙铊床底下滚出来的杯子，相信我，一定不是朱令最初的杯子。只不过长的一样而已。因为这件事发生后，不是孙铊在处理，是她全家。
不好意思，误伤误伤
同学，你引用错了 🤣 再仔细看看，我是说方舟子算错了头发的生长速度
误伤，误伤，被不知是真蠢还是假蠢气坏了！
头发生长速度来自文献，放狗搜第一篇就是2018文章作者引用的数据， 411+-53 微米每天
论文作者说的是八月底啊
把你的计算方法详细写出来呗
论文作者已经写了啊，见我一楼引用的图片。你到底有没有看整篇的论文，还是就希望逮住一句片言只语方便要你想要的答案？
re
221楼有图片和解释
论文用的是亚洲平均，7厘米头发的生长期是170天。按照她的几次住院数据，这个不符合朱令的情况。我得把那货拉黑，搞这些没用的，影响情绪。
这不是我算的，是根据2018年作者论文里的图得出的结论
这是极端最宽泛算法，把最高峰放到了十月三十一日算，朱令第一次中毒都在八月十六日左右。
而实际上，这个峰只可能比十月三十一日更早，也就是说朱令第一次中毒可能更早于八月十六日。
摆出你的数据，计算和推理呗
数据和逻辑最有说服力
说说2018年作者和方是哪里算错了。
越详细的反驳越好，要数据，要计算，要数据出处文献。
没事没事。^_^
221楼有图片和解释，221楼的图就是论文的中译版。
2018年论文作者的文章里图二和图五有不一致现象。
根据图二，第一个铊峰不晚于八月十六日
但是她画图五的时候，把这个日子往后移到八月中以后了。
大家自己比较一下图二和图五
我仔细读了2018年论文，注意到了图二和图五的不一致。
把你的详细反驳写出来嘛
你再读一下，论文里解释了这个不一致：
“尽管有诸多不确定因素，我们还是在结合考虑了朱令周日在家、媒体报道中情况好转、情况恶化、脱发事件、头发生长速度各种因素后，对以上图标进行了校准。
根据我们排列的图表，朱令头发生长是高于平均值的，我认为这也符合她21岁，国家运动员的健康体格。
这也就意味着，下面那条线在尾部（脱落时间）固定在某个点后，或许要微微向右缩短。“
看下截图吧please，不是人拉黑你，实在你没有在听啊。论文不是断章取义这么看的。
如果按照朱令头发最晚脱落于十二月三十一日，第一个铊峰出现在八月一日。
171-19（第一个铊峰）-31（12月）-30（11月）-31（10月）-30（九月）-31（八月）=-1
八月一日或二日
具体计算摆出来
221楼，我说了三次了
伸手党，我也是服气了。再见，您在帖子里好好玩哈 🤣
221楼没有数据和计算
数据才有意义，你只用了文字
是理工科的么？
也要遁？
不是跑了，你杠你对。^_^
你的数据呢？
lz 我想楼上是说要找笑望要数据和计算 笑望怼你算的是错的 然后匿了
她昨天跟我说了一个计算方法 我问了几个问题 她也直接跑了
我不知道她怼天怼地的原因 但对于计算 我觉得肘子和原作者的计算都没问题 就是参考标准不一样 我觉得肘子的比较标准一点 因为他参考亚洲女性头发生长速度考虑了最快和最慢的两种情况
我觉得lz直接引用原作没问题 笑望。。我不明白她怎么算的 也许是为了怼而怼 鉴于笑望到处喷人蠢 我想看看她的理由
我又不靠这个自证清白，哪有那么多美国时间。🤣 想看数字的话，这个贴里有一层有个网友算了的，您慢慢翻一下吧
我认为笑望人生的估算和原作者的校准图是对的，和我估计的相同。她怼我是认错人了 😂 方舟子的算法误差区间大，因为没有试图去算朱令本人的头发生长速度。如果她们没说清楚，可能我也说不清。
可以测。但是我感觉下在杯子里的概率不大，第一阶段看来是下在personal care products里了。至于原因，我跟某些没知识的猪脑子解释会太费劲了。略过
这是网友92m说的，我没有double check：
为什么要销毁朱令的律师说过铊会和其他元素发生置换所以不锈钢杯子也洗不干净的，更巧的是铊的检测是电子元件常见的杂质之一所以能做到非常微量的也可以检测出来
如果信息属实且物化系不学电子元件的杂质检测（CS系都没学过这些EE相关的内容），那么凶手懂得藏起杯子确实说明背后有强大的支持网。我之前阅读案情时对这个杯子的故事完全莫名其妙。^_^
杯子是障眼法，没下杯子里，这是用来转移注意力的。下在洗护用品啊眼镜液啊这些里了。杯子么就先找不到再找到啥的，这种你最后一测，八成是啥也没有。
层主想说楼里哪些网友没知识，又猪脑子的。。
你说不出来拉倒，人身攻击谁呢。。
应该有两个毒源，生活用品中有（一二九演出之前，十月左右），食物也有（十二月之后）。杯子我之前也以为是障眼法，但是如果朱令的律师所说属实的话，那么杯子很可能在一二九演出左右的食物下毒中扮演了可耻的角色。杯子找到后去测当然是什么都没有了，肯定处理或者调换过了。但是调换前的杯子很可能装过有毒的食物。
你221楼引的，不是2018年朱令头发分析文章的内容，
就是whoever he or she 在没有摆出具体数据和具体修正原则和方法的论证下， arbitrarily 主观的把头发生长期压缩
“论文里之所以推断出八月下旬，我估计是将铊在头发里的峰值时间和朱令症状严重的时间对齐，做了一个校准，这样就得到了朱令头发的真正生长速度（论文指出，她的头发生长速度属于快的）。导致朱令失明的铊峰值出现在10月中，导致她腹痛的铊剂量峰值结束在十二月上中（12月12日她回家的时候），一共是稍小于两个月的时间。铊的第一个峰值与十二月的峰值基本是左右对称的状态，往前减两个月不到，毛估估可不就是八月底。”
这些内容，不是2018年论文的内容。2018年文章没有任何地方说朱令头发生长速度快于文章引用的亚洲女性头发平均生长速度。
下面是2018年文章全文
有点长，同修们可以读一遍：（抱歉没有排版）
Details of a thallium poisoning case revealed by single hair analysis using laser ablation inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry RSS Download PDF Richard David Ash and Min He Forensic Science International, 2018-11-01, Volume 292, Pages 224-231, Copyright © 2018 Elsevier B.V. Highlights • Single hair analysis re-constituted the original poisoning chronology. • The victim had experienced both chronical and acute exposures to thallium. • The height and frequency of thallium peaks correlated with the victim’s symptoms. • Eye contact and oral ingestion were two possible thallium exposure routes. • Lead might be involved in the acute thallium poisoning period, but additional analysis is needed. Abstract Heavy metals pose significant morbidity and mortality threats to humans in connection with both acute and chronic exposure. The often-delayed manifestations of some toxic effects and the wide-spectrum of symptoms caused by heavy metal poisoning may perplex the clinical diagnosis and, when involved in crimes, complicate the forensic investigation. To investigate the original intoxication process of a thallium poisoning case, which occurred in China more than two decades ago, laser ablation inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry (LA-ICP-MS) was used to analyze several hairs of the victim from before, during and after the poisoning period. Ablation line scans of the entire length of a ∼7 cm hair revealed ∼4 months of repeated exposure to thallium with increased doses and frequency toward the end, while scan of a ∼0.7 cm hair revealed ∼2 weeks of constant ingestions of large doses of thallium accompanied by elevated amount of lead. The endogenous origin of thallium was confirmed by the preservation of the same longitudinal distribution profile in the inner part of hair, but the source of lead could not be unambiguously determined due to the intrinsic limitation of hair analysis to distinguish ingested lead from exogenous contaminants. The overall thallium distribution profiles in the analyzed hairs suggested both chronic and acute thallium exposures that correlated well with the sequential presentation of a plethora of symptoms experienced by the victim. Aligning the time-resolved thallium peaks with symptoms also provided clues on possible routes of exposure at different poisoning stages. This work demonstrated the capability of using single hair LA-ICP-MS analysis to reconstitute a prolonged and complicated heavy metal poisoning case, and highlighted the necessity of assessing multiple elements in the medico-legal investigation of suspicious heavy metal poisonings. 1 Introduction Heavy metal poisoning refers to the accumulation of any element that exhibits metallic properties at toxic levels in the soft tissues of human body, which could result in significant morbidity and mortality if unrecognized or inappropriately treated. Although heavy metal toxicity may result from environmental, occupational or accidental exposure, it is a relatively uncommon diagnosis in clinical practice and physicians, in general, are not well attuned to such possibilities. Symptoms associated with heavy metal poisoning take a variety of forms: some are specific to an element, some are non-specific or even indistinguishable from other common diseases. Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain are the hallmarks of most acute metal ingestions, whereas during chronic exposure, symptoms may not be noticeable at the early stage and only become incrementally more severe as weeks or even months pass as the metal accumulates in the body . Due to the elusive manifestation of toxic effects and the physical characteristics (colorless, tasteless, odorless etc. ) of some heavy metal compounds, several highly toxic heavy metals, such as lead, arsenic, mercury, antimony and thallium, have a long history of being involved in intentional poisoning events. Although modern analytical technology can easily detect the presence of trace amount of heavy metals in the human body, the ensuing legal investigations may still encounter daunting challenges, particularly if the culprits take advantage of the delayed diagnosis to destroy critical evidence . The decisive diagnosis of heavy metal poisoning usually relies on blood or urine tests. However, the concentrations of heavy metal in these body fluids only reflect recent exposure and cannot provide a retrospective record of earlier events. Hair, on the other hand, is an important biological specimen for measuring historical internal exposure to heavy metals. When formed from the actively growing matrix cells in the follicle, hair incorporates heavy metals from the bloodstream into keratin proteins at a relatively constant rate. The distribution profile of a heavy metal along the hair shaft generally correlates well with the dose and time of exposure to this element, hence representing a long-term record which remains unaffected by later homeostasis or excretion . Inductively coupled plasma-mass spectrometry (ICP-MS) is a sensitive trace element analytical technique capable of quantitative measurement at the parts-per-quadrillion (ppq) level in solution. Previously, heavy metals in hair were measured by cutting hair into ∼1 cm fragments, dissolving each fragment in a solution and determining the abundance of each element in the solution . This approach could generate a crude timeline of ingestions, but the temporal resolution was limited by the length of the hair fragment used in the analysis. With ICP-MS coupled to a laser ablation system, the resulting LA-ICP-MS allows in situ measurement of trace elements in solid materials at the parts-per-billion (ppb) level (the tiny amount of material ablated is usually the determining factor for sensitivity). This technique is particularly suitable to decode the ingestion events from a single hair shaft due to its superior sensitivity (down to ppb) for simultaneous multi-element detection at the scale of the human hair diameter (60–80 μm) , as well as the ability of providing longitudinal resolution high enough to potentially separate ingestions only a few hours apart . The capabilities of LA-ICP-MS to monitor the time and relative amount of heavy metal ingestion have previously been validated through the analysis of platinum in single hair shaft from a patient who had been treated with cisplatin with documented doses and schedule , and the analysis of arsenic in a hair sample from a leukemia patient who had been treated with arsenic trioxide . This technology has also been applied to infer the time course of human intakes of heavy metals from forensic samples, such as assessing thallium in the nails of a homicide victim and measuring mercury in the hair of a suicide victim . Certified reference materials (CRM), or laboratory-prepared matrix-match standards, were used in these studies to develop calibration curves for the quantification of heavy metal content in hair samples. One of the challenges for hair analysis is to distinguish the endogenously incorporated elements from those of exogenous origins, as scalp hairs are constantly exposed to environment contaminants, including various atmospheric pollutants. Various wash reagents and procedures previously developed to clean hair samples prior to analysis were discussed in a recent review, yet no single protocol was considered to be able to completely remove the exogenous contamination without affecting the endogenous element content . The issue became even more complicated when it was observed that the concentrations of some metals (Hg, Pt and Pb) were significantly higher in the outer region than in the inner core of hairs from people who had internal exposure of these metals . In fact, investigation of trace element distributions in human hair using surface-sensitive analytical method have revealed that several metals were preferentially accumulated in hair cuticles . These observations could be explained by the different functionalities of hair cross-section layers (cuticle, cortex and medulla), as well as the deposit of endogenous elements on the surface of newly assembled hair shaft through secretions from sebaceous and apocrine glands . Consequently, caution must be taken in interpreting the origin for excess amount of certain heavy metals detected in the peripheral region of the hair shaft. 2 Case report A female college student in Beijing suffered an array of mysterious symptoms including vomiting, stomachache, recurrent paresthesia and alopecia from December 1994 and fell into coma in March 1995. Thallium poisoning was suggested by an attending physician and later echoed by some doctors abroad responding to world-wide internet pleas for help with detailed description of the student’s symptoms. In late April 1995, graphite furnace atomic absorption spectrometry (GF-AAS) analysis was eventually conducted on the student’s urine, blood, cerebrospinal fluid, hair and nails, and significantly elevated concentrations of thallium were detected. This diagnosis prompted the medical treatment of the patient with thallium antidotes (Prussian Blue etc .) about five months after the first symptoms started . The delayed treatment saved the victim’s life but has left her partially paralyzed with severely reduced faculties. Although the ensuing police investigation determined that the student had been intentionally poisoned, the case remains unsolved and no one has been prosecuted. Among the many myths surrounding this case was the obscurity of the poisoning process. Although the victim’s two rounds of overt symptoms suggested two poisoning episodes, it was unclear whether each outbreak was the result of a single large exposure to thallium or a series of continuous intakes of small doses that accumulated to a toxic level. The untimely disappearance of some of the victim’s personal items also left a puzzle as to how she had been poisoned. The atomic absorption spectrometry analysis of the victim’s hair conducted in 1995 only measured the total thallium concentration in a lock of hair collected from the clothes worn by the victim, hence could not provide any information on the frequency or the duration of the victim’s exposure to thallium. Fortunately, the victim’s parents have also collected a small number of hairs from a blanket used by the victim during the poisoning period (1994–1995) and stored them in a plastic bag since. We have analyzed several of these hair samples using LA-ICP-MS, aiming to re-constitute the victim’s intoxication chronology. The results revealed important details of the poisoning process and cast some new insights to this cold case. 3 Materials and methods 3.1 Hair sample handling A small number of hairs were provided by the victim’s parents in a plastic bag. A lock of scalp hairs, pulled from the victim in 2015, were also provided by the parents. A pair of forceps, cleaned with alcohol wipes, were used to transfer individual hairs into brand-new Ziploc® bags, each labeled with a sample ID. Each hair was then examined under a hand-held magnifier (10×) and only those with visible hair root were chosen for further analysis. No cleaning procedure was conducted prior to the LA-ICP-MS analysis. Each hair sample was mounted on a printed grid on a thin-section glass slide using double-sided sticky tape. Long hairs were cut into several fragments (∼3 cm each) before mounting onto the glass slide sequentially, with the positions of the hair root and hair tip recorded. 3.2 Hair photographic documentation Hairs were photographed using a Nikon Eclipse LV100Pol microscope (10× eyepiece and a 20× or 50× objective lens) coupled to a Q Imaging Micropublisher 5.0RTV camera. 3.3 LA-ICP-MS analysis Hair samples and standard materials were analyzed in situ by LA-ICP-MS using a New Wave Research UP213 ultraviolet laser coupled to a Thermo Finnigan Element 2 magnetic sector, single collector ICP-MS. Mass spectrometer and laser parameters and operating conditions were listed in Table 1 . Samples were ablated into a stream of helium ( ca . 0.8 l min −1 ), which was then mixed into a stream of Ar ( ca . 0.8 l min −1 ) before entering the plasma. The laser fluence was controlled at 2.5–4 J cm −2 to achieve optimal ablation. Scanning was conducted from the tip toward the root bulb in each hair. Long hairs (>1 cm) were scanned in sequential segments, each ∼0.9 cm long. Scanning was repeated at least once along the same line in each segment. The number of runs (the run through all the elements) determined the length of the analysis time, which varied from 1–3 min. The first 20 s of the analysis was conducted with the laser beam stop in to quantify the gas background counts for the isotopes of interest. After 20 s the beam stop was opened, the hair sample moved beneath the beam, and data were gathered from the ablation. Mass stations at 7 Li, 12 C, 13 C, 200 Hg, 202 Hg, 203 Tl, 204 Pb, 205 Tl, 206 Pb, 207 Pb and 208 Pb were measured. The first mass station ( 7 Li) was used to ensure that the magnet returned to the low mass from 208 Pb before making a measurement. One sample (ZL1995H5) was analyzed for an extended suite of metal elements to check for potential elevated concentrations of other heavy metals. Only Tl and Pb were detected above background levels, hence only these two elements (plus Hg to check for interferences) were included in later analyses. Table 1 Mass spectrometer and laser parameters used for sample and standard analysis. Laser ablation settings Repetition rate 7 Hz Flux 2.5–4 J cm −2 Spot size 30–40 μm Speed 20–50 μm s −1 Major ICP-MS parameters Forward power 1250 W Auxiliary gas 1.05 l min −1 Sample gas 0.7 l min −1 Ablation 0.8 l min −1 Points per peak 1 Tl dwell time 20 ms Other elements dwell time 10 ms Time per run a 625 ms Runs/pass 100–320/1 Sample/skimmer cones Aluminum a The element2 software defined a run as a run through all the elements in a list to be analyzed at a single time. 3.4 Preparation of reference materials Five aliquots of ∼100 mg of dried NIST standard reference material SRM 1571 (Orchard Leaves) were precisely weighed using a Mettler Toledo AT21 balance (measures to 1 μg). To each of the aliquots, 100 μL of Tl solution with various concentrations (0, 10, 100, 250, and 500 μg g −1 , in 2% nitric acid) was added. The mixtures of Orchard Leaf powder and Tl solution were ground together in a mortar and pestle for several minutes until the solution had been absorbed, resulting in a homogenized mass, which was then gently squashed onto a pre-cleaned glass microscope slide, producing a pellet ca. 5 mm in diameter which was left to dry in air. The dried pellets were placed in a vacuum oven, evacuated, then heated to 80 °C overnight. The leaf pellets were then plucked from the glass slide and mounted on double sided sticky tape. The side which had been contacting the glass slide during the drying process was now facing up to provide a flat, smooth surface for laser ablation. Leaf reference pellets for lead quantification were made in similar way. Each of the reference pellets was analyzed twice before the analysis of hair samples, under the same laser (apart from spot size, which was varied to enable optimization of carbon and thallium counts) and plasma conditions. 3.5 Data processing The raw LA-ICP-MS data were imported into Microsoft® Excel. The mean counts per second for the gas blank, gathered in the first 20 s of each analysis, were subtracted from the mean counts per second of the ablated hair for each of the measured elements. The resulting blank corrected signal intensities for the metals of interest were normalized using 12 C (or 13 C) as an internal standard element. To generate the calibration curve using the collected data from the doped SRM 1571 (Orchard Leaves), the corrected metal/carbon intensity ratios for each pellet were averaged and plotted against the pre-determined thallium or lead concentrations. A calibration curve of thallium concentration versus 205 Tl /12 C was generated on each day of analysis. The same method was used to generate calibration curve for lead quantification, though the higher intercept of the calibration curve may reflect a mixture of indigenous leaf lead and contamination. The slope of the 208 Pb/ 12 C plot still reflects the sensitivity of the instrument for calculating approximate concentrations. For each hair sample, thallium intensity ratios ( 205 Tl/ 12 C) or lead intensity ratios ( 208 Pb/ 12 C) were averaged and the corresponding concentrations (ng g −1 for thallium and μg g −1 for lead) were computed using the respective calibration curves. The hair length between the tip and the thallium or lead peak was calculated by multiplying the corresponding scanning time point of the peak (second) with the scanning speed (50 μm/sec). The hair length was then converted into estimated hair growth time using the formula below, which was generated based on the mean Asian hair growth rate of 411 (±53) μm/day . The longitudinal thallium or lead distribution profiles were illustrated using the semi-quantified concentrations plotted against the calculated hair growth length from the hair tip or the hair growth time. Data for sequential segments of a single long hair were pasted together tandemly to re-construct the full-length hair shaft. Estimatedhairgrowthtime(day)=Peakdistancefromthehairtip(μm)411(μm/day) 3.6 Analytical quality control Human Hair Standard power (GBW07601a, China) was crushed onto a piece of double-sided sticky tape and mounted to a glass slide, rendering a coating of hair powder with enough thickness to be analyzed using the laser. Three analyses of this hair powder yielded a mean thallium concentration, which was compared with the certified value. 4 Results and discussion 4.1 Hair sample description A small number of hairs collected from a blanket used by the victim at home during 1994–1995 were provided by the victim’s parents. Several hairs, with lengths varying between ∼1 cm and ∼30 cm and bearing visible root bulbs, were chosen for LA-ICP-MS analysis. The approximate time when each hair fell from the victim was estimated based on the length and appearance of the hair in connection with the victim’s symptoms, as described in more details later for each hair. Due to the fragile appearance of these hairs, no washing procedure was conducted prior to the analysis. Skipping this pre-cleaning step was not expected to significantly affect the assessment of thallium content in the hair samples, as we reasoned that thallium is such a rare element that any potential environmental contamination would unlikely overwhelm the presumed significant amount of endogenous thallium derived from poisoning. One scalp hair plucked from the victim in 2015 was also analyzed to provide a reference of current endogenous thallium level. For consistency purpose, no pre-cleaning was conducted for this hair either. 4.2 LA-ICP-MS analysis, calibration and validation Continuous linear scans using LA-ICP-MS were performed on each hair to investigate the temporal thallium exposure. For hairs longer than 1 cm, scans were conducted in multiple consecutive segments (each ∼9 mm long) along the hair shaft to cover the full length. Isotopes of thallium ( 203 Tl and 205 Tl) and other metals (Pb, Hg) were simultaneously monitored. Although it was shown previously that the sensitivity of LA-ICP-MS analysis could be significantly increased by total ablation of the whole hair shaft , we chose partial ablation linear scan since one of the goals was to assess the thallium contents near the hair surface and in the inner part of each hair shaft separately. Two scans along the same line were performed on each segment. The first ablation was expected to measure thallium in the cuticle with any surfacial deposit and the outer portion of the cortex, while the second scan was to assess the inner cortex and the medulla. The distribution profiles of both isotopes of thallium were the same in each analyzed hair. The thallium concentrations were calculated using 205 Tl because of its greater abundance (70.5%), which enabled measurements of higher precision. Laboratory-made standards consisting of Tl-enriched NIST standard reference material SRM 1571 (Orchard Leaves) were used for calibration. Sulfur ( 32 S) has been used in the past as an internal standard for normalization in hair analysis , but the high background at mass 32 made it problematic. We chose carbon as the internal standard, which gave a more stable signal and provided better signal-to-background ratio than sulfur. Two measurable isotopes of carbon ( 12 C and 13 C) also allowed internal checks to be made to ensure no isobaric interferences from doubly or triply charged species. The carbon content of SRM 1571 (Orchard Leaves) has previously been determined to be 46.4% , close to the certified carbon content (45.7%) in the SRM USGS42 (Tibetan Hair) , to which the carbon content of the victim’s hair was assumed to be very similar. A calibration curve was generated using the measured 205 Tl/ 12 C intensity ratios in a series of reference standards made of SRM 1571 doped with Tl standard solutions of defined concentrations. The correlation coefficient of the resulting linear calibration curve for 205 Tl was 0.998 ( Fig. 1 ). The accuracy of this quantification method was validated by analyzing the Certified Reference Materials GBW07601a (Human Hair, China). Analyses of this hair standard yielded a mean Tl concentration of 8.7 ± 3.6 ng g −1 , in good agreement with the certified value of 7.7 ± 1.1 ng g −1 for thallium. Fig. 1 Thallium calibration curve generated from the analysis of the laboratory-made standards using SRM 1571 (Orchard Leaves). 4.3 Pre- and post-poisoning basal levels for thallium and lead The victim’s hair heavy metal levels prior to the poisoning period (1994–1995) was established by analyzing the longest hair, ZL1995H1 (∼30 cm), which should have fallen from the victim in 1994, since she became completely bald at the end of that year and never grew hair of such length in 1995. Thallium and lead concentrations of the first ∼3 cm from the hair root of this hair were 2.8 ng g −1 and 1.4 μg g −1 , respectively, close to the levels (3.7 ng g −1 and 0.8 μg g −1 , respectively) detected near the root of a hair collected in 2015 (ZL2015H100). Analysis of another very long hair, ZL1995H2 (∼26 cm), also showed very similar levels of thallium and lead, respectively ( Table 2 ). Table 2 Averaged Tl and Pb concentrations in each analyzed hair samples. For comparison purpose, only the contents in the last ∼3 cm hair shaft near the root of long hair samples (>3 cm) were averaged. For short hair samples (<3 cm), the contents of the entire length were averaged. Sample ID Collecting time Total length (cm) Tl (ng g −1 ) Pb (μg g −1 ) ZL2015H100 2015 ∼10 3.7 0.8 ZL1995H1 1995 ∼30 2.8 1.4 ZL1995H2 1995 ∼26 2.8 0.6 ZL1995H3 1995 ∼1 165 12 ZL1995H5 1995 ∼0.7 182 43 ZL1995H8 1995 ∼4 15 4 ZL1995H9 1995 ∼7 40 2 4.4 Longitudinal distribution of thallium in Hair ZL1995H9 The entire length of a ∼7 cm long hair (ZL1995H9) was scanned from the tip to the root. The longitudinal distribution profile of thallium was shown by the concentration plotted against the distance from the hair tip and the converted hair growth time, which was estimated based on the mean Asian hair growth rate of 411 (±53) μm/day . Approximately 25 distinguishable peaks, with maximum peak concentrations at or above 50 ng g −1 (∼20-fold above the basal level), were resolved along the entire hair shaft ( Fig. 2 A). The intervals between the sharp maxima of the thallium signal peaks varied between 0.5 and 8.6 mm, corresponding to ∼2–20 days. The distance between the first and the last recognizable thallium peak was ∼55 mm, corresponding to at least ∼4 months of hair growth time. An exceptionally tall peak of ∼530 ng g −1 in the middle of this hair shaft indicated a single exposure to an unusually large dose (∼200-fold above the basal level) of thallium. The duration of each peak was ∼2 days, in agreement with the previously observed rapid clearance of thallium from blood . The thallium concentration baseline escalated near the hair root and was juxtaposed with a cluster of peaks with maximum concentrations of ∼150–220 ng g −1 , suggesting the victim had more frequent exposure to increased doses of thallium (50–80-fold above the basal level) ∼3 weeks before this hair fell out. Fig. 2 (A) The longitudinal Tl profile in Hair ZL1995H9 represented by its concentration against the distance from the hair tip (bottom X axis) and the converted hair growth time (top axis). (B) Alignment of the Tl profiles detected in the 1st and 2nd scan of ZL1995H9. A repeated scan of the entire length of this hair showed identical 205 Tl distribution profile, but at a slightly higher level ( Fig. 2 B), confirming that the thallium had been absorbed internally and incorporated during the formation of the hair shaft via diffusion from blood to the actively growing follicle. This result was in agreement with the conclusion from the previous analysis of the victim’s blood and urine at the time of the diagnosis . 4.5 Longitudinal distribution of thallium in Hair ZL1995H5 In contrast to the smooth surface appearance of hair ZL1995H1, ZL1995H2 and ZL1995H9, a rugged surface and dark gray lateral stripes were observed under the microscope ( Fig. 3 ), on a very short hair, ZL1995H5 (∼0.7 cm). Numerous congested thallium peaks spreading along the entire length of this hair were revealed by the first LA-ICP-MS scan, with concentrations varying between 150–500 ng g −1 (∼50–180 fold above the basal level). Intervals between the sharp maxima of most of the thallium signal peaks were ∼0.1–0.3 mm which corresponded to ∼6–18 h, suggesting consistent daily intakes of thallium. Surprisingly, significantly increased signals of lead ( 206 Pb, 207 Pb and 208 Pb) were also observed in this hair, with several large 208 Pb peaks aligning well with thallium peaks ( Fig. 4 A). The highest 208 Pb peak was ∼100-fold above the Pb baseline detected in ZL1995H1. Fig. 3 Microscopic pictures of hair samples. Before laser ablation, ZL1995H2 (A). After laser ablation ZL1995H2 (B), ZL1995H9 (C), ZL1995H5 (D). The red arrow indicated the laser ablated lines. (For interpretation of the references to color in this figure legend, the reader is referred to the web version of this article.) Fig. 4 (A) Longitudinal distribution of Tl and Pb over the entire length of ZL1995H5, (B) alignment of the Tl profiles from the 1st and 2nd scan of ZL1995H5, (C) alignment of the Pb profiles from the 1st and 2nd scan of ZL1995H5. The second scan of this hair revealed a similar, but not exactly overlapping, Tl profile ( Fig. 4 B), again slightly higher than the level detected in the first analyses. The misalignment of 205 Tl peaks between the two scans likely resulted from the damaged hair surface structure and disorganized cuticle, which had been observed before on the hair shaft from a victim who died of severe thallium poisoning . In addition, the lead concentration decreased by ∼3-fold, but still ∼10-fold above the basal level ( Fig. 4 C), likely due to the complex reasons discussed below. Nevertheless, with much more frequent and higher thallium peaks and the co-appearance of large amount of lead, Hair ZL1995H5 apparently represented an acute poisoning stage distinguishable from the mainly chronical exposure episode represented by Hair ZL1995H9. Analysis of additional hairs revealed thallium and lead distribution profiles either very similar to ZL1995H9 or similar to ZL1995H5. The averaged concentrations for both metals near the hair root in each analyzed hair sample were shown in Table 2 . Previous studies on the distribution of trace elements in human hair have found that lead and iron appeared to be accumulated near the periphery of the hair regardless of endogenous incorporation or external deposit, presumably due to the preferred binding of these metals by components in the hair cuticle and/or the alternative incorporation route of endogenous elements into hair shaft via secretion from the sebaceous glands after the formation of the hair shaft . We speculated that the significant amount of lead detected in the outer layers of hair ZL1995H5 should not be exclusively ascribed to contamination for at least three reasons. First, the absence of such elevated level of lead in the surface of longer hairs (ZL1995H1, ZL2991H2, ZL1995H9) suggest that the victim was not exposed to an unusual level of environmental lead either in school or at home during this period. Second, it was unlikely that this batch of hair samples have been contaminated by environmental lead during the storage or in the process of our analysis, since higher level of lead was only detected in the very short hairs. Third, exogenously deposited lead would unlikely produce peaks that were correlated with the internally ingested thallium. Nevertheless, an unambiguous determination on whether the victim had ingested large dose of lead during the second thallium poisoning period would require analysis of additional biological specimens that were collected right after the assumed poisoning period. 4.6 Alignment of thallium and lead distribution profiles with the victim’s symptoms The victim had experienced alopecia twice: loss of her long hair at the end of 1994, and then loss of all newly grown short hair in March 1995. Based on the hair length, ZL1995H9 likely fell from the victim during the first occurrence of alopecia, and ZL1995H5 likely fell during the second occurrence. Fig. 5 showed the alignment of the thallium and lead distribution profiles in these two hairs with the victim’s symptoms and life track from late 1994 to early 1995. Fig. 5 Alignment of the Tl and Pb distribution profiles in ZL1995H9 and ZL1995H5 with the victim’s symptoms and life track during 1994–1995. The toxicity of thallium stems from its ability to replace potassium and interfere with various potassium-dependent physiological processes due to similar charge and ionic radius. Thallium ions can be absorbed by human body rapidly and almost completely via virtually any route (ingestion, inhalation, skin contact), causing a wide spectrum of symptoms including gastroenteritis, multi-organ failure and neurologic injuries. The onset of poisoning signs and symptoms varies depending on both dose and exposure route . Alignment of ZL1995H9 with the first episode indicated that the victim had already been exposed to thallium for ∼3 months before the abrupt start of the striking poisoning symptoms. The sporadic intakes of relatively small doses during this prolonged period did not cause any apparent health problems, except a sudden and temporary vision loss occurring sometime in the fall of 1994. This may be attributed to the single high dose of thallium detected in the middle of ZL1995H9. The lack of any gastrointestinal or neurological response upon such a large exposure may suggest that thallium was possibly absorbed through eye contact, which usually only resulted in local irritation instead of systematic effects . It is also noteworthy that the victim used to wear contact lens but had to switch to glasses after this incident. The more frequent and larger thallium peaks near the root of ZL1995H9 correlate with the appearance of the hallmark signs of systematic thallium intoxication starting from early December 1994, including gastrointestinal manifestations (stomach pain, nausea and vomiting) that are characteristics of oral ingestion of thallium, ascending peripheral neuropathy (pins and needles sensation in the hands and feet), and gradual hair loss. Such correlation may indicate a change in exposure route to oral ingestion along with the transition from the chronic to acute poisoning. The victim went home in mid-December and became completely bald in late December 1994, a period of ∼2 weeks during which hair ZL1995H9 likely fell off. After a short remission with hair re-growing, the victim returned to school in late February 1995, only soon suffered another round of acute symptoms that ultimately forced her to go back to home again in early March. She then lost all the newly grown short hair. ZL1995H5 likely fell off during this period, and the short, yet consistent, exposure to the large amount of thallium reflected by this hair shaft would account for these acute intoxication manifestations as well as the clinical signs documented after she was sent to the hospital, including delirium, seizure, convulsion and eventually slipping into a coma for several months. More than a month later, quantitative GF-AAS analysis (measuring only thallium) was conducted and revealed significant amounts of thallium in her urine, blood, cerebrospinal fluid, hair and nails . Continuing monitor of the thallium levels in the victim’s blood and urine during the following medical treatment with thallium-specific antidotes demonstrated the gradual elimination of thallium from her body. The victim was eventually brought back to consciousness ∼4 months later, but suffered permanent memory impairment, another neuropsychological effect which can be caused by thallium intoxication . Computed tomography (CT) scan of her brain revealed both cerebral and cerebellar atrophy . Interestingly, lead could also attack both central and peripheral nervous system and, in the situation of acute exposure of large doses, trigger a set of polyneuropathy clinical signs that are very similar to those resulting from thallium poisoning, including severe pain, muscle weakness, delirium, convulsion and coma. An important mechanism of lead toxicity arises from its ability to replace divalent cations that are necessary for some critical cellular activities. For example, lead can replace calcium ions and pass through the blood-brain barrier, causing neurological abnormalities including memory-related neurotransmitter activities that may lead to memory loss . Therefore, the possible co-ingestion of lead with thallium in the second poisoning episode, as indicated by the co-presence of large amount of thallium and lead in ZL1995H5, would also synchronize with the victim’s symptoms during that period. However, alopecia was a distinct symptom only associated with thallium poisoning , thus the original diagnosis, medical treatment and forensic investigation have only focused on thallium. Thallium is also more acutely toxic than lead , which explains why the victim responded appreciably well to the thallium-specific antidotes, even though more lead than thallium was detected in ZL1995H5. Prior to this work, there had been no suspicion that the victim might have been co-poisoned by another heavy metal, since the amount of thallium detected in her body could adequately explain all the observed symptoms and responses following the medical treatment. This case thus highlighted the importance of assessing multiple elements in different biological specimens to aid in the medico-legal investigation of suspicious heavy metal poisoning upon clinical observations. 5 Conclusions Based primarily on the LA-ICP-MS analysis of two hairs, we have reconstructed the poisoning chronology of an unsolved cold case, which correlated well with the victim’s original symptoms. The results have also exposed a previously unknown chronic poisoning period with sporadic thallium exposures, the potential involvement of another heavy metal (lead), and clues on the possible routes of exposure at different poisoning stages. Future work may include analyzing additional hairs to investigate whether the first thallium peak detected in ZL1995H9 indeed represents the beginning of the first poisoning period. The analysis of other biological specimens collected from the victim around the poisoning period could be carried out to verify whether she had indeed co-ingested lead with thallium during the second poisoning period. Nevertheless, our work has demonstrated the capability of using single hair LA-ICP-MS analysis to retrieve information from meager specimens for the reconstitution of a prolonged and complicated heavy metal poisoning case. We hope this work could also raise the awareness of the importance of assessing multiple elements in different bio specimens due to the overlapping symptoms caused by some heavy metals and the intrinsic limitation of hair analysis to distinguish the internal versus external origins of certain elements. One of the strengths of ICP-MS analysis is the rapid determination of low levels of multiple elements simultaneously. The simple LA-ICP-MS analytical procedure developed in our work could be of considerable medical and forensic importance to resolve complicated heavy metal poisoning incidents. Careful collection and curation of hair samples from poisoning victims would also aid in the establishment of a precise time-line for the ingestions of the heavy metals. Authors’ contributions RDA conducted the LA-ICP-MS experiments and the data analysis, and contributed to the manuscript writing; MH conceived this project, conducted the data analysis and interpretation, and wrote the manuscript."
我说过了，杯子是转移注意力的，某些猪脑一件事要讲800遍，还没听懂
所谓“校准”不是2018年作者做的，是写解读2018年文章的人自己的主观主张。
也没有提出任何数据和依据支持。
而是先有narrative, 再修改数据压缩朱令头发生长时间来吻合自己预设的时间线。
那你说凶手是谁？搅浑水没用。
并没有尊重2018年文章作者的数据，属于修改原始数据来适应既定结论。
所谓的“校准”，也不是2018年作者做的，而是没药做的。依据是什么？数据和具体方法计算都没有给出。
不是一回事情。
我不知道
只是发现不尊重科学原则，不尊重数据，主观修改数据来适应既定结论的不科学的做法。就指出来。
2018年作者没有任何所谓‘校准“
这个”校准“是没药花园的”校准“，没有任何数据的支持。
主要观点是啥？无非是sw八月份能不能进组弄到铊。按她自己的说法，人人都能弄到铊，那她没进组之前也可以弄到啊。这不矛盾。说不定她哥就进去弄了点出来啊哈哈
对啊，对有预设立场的人，数据是没有用处的
可能性有无数，但是只有我认定那一个才是对的。
孙维声称自己并不是唯一一个能从学校实验室获得铊盐的人。[55] [62] [63]孙维还表示，自己不能够“替学校背这么大的黑锅”。[13]2006年1月13日，孙维在天涯社区发帖《声明:要求重新侦查，为“窃听器”错误向网友和公安道歉（页面存档备份，存于互联网档案馆）》称“已委托家人于2006年1月9日向公安机关正式提交书面申请，强烈要求公安机关采取透明办案方式重新侦查朱令中毒案件。” 2013年5月8日，北京市公安局通过其官方微博“平安北京”发表一篇长微博（页面存档备份，存于互联网档案馆），向社会通报该案有关情况。其中还特别指出“工作中，专案组始终坚持依法公正办案，未受到任何干扰。”这份向社会公布的通报没有提及2007年公安部公办查〔2007〕040014号文件中提到的朱令令的家长多次致信中央领导和有关部门，中央和有关部门领导均对此作出批示的情况[45]。
2006年1月13日，天涯社区ID为“孙维声明”的用户（此ID此前已被证实为孙维本人[49]）发表《声明:要求重新侦查，为“窃听器”错误向网友和公安道歉（页面存档备份，存于互联网档案馆）》[83]，驳斥各种谣言，如“孙维天天给朱令喝咖啡”、“在孙维床下的箱子里找到彻底清洗过的咖啡杯子，孙维的解释是朱令一直不在怕杯子脏了，所以就给洗了，然后怕落灰所以放到自己箱子里保管”、“清华传言朱令中毒是因为他爸爸走私铊，不小心沾染的。同时，我补充一点，谣言的来源最后查到，确定为孙维所为”、“孙维声称公安仅在97年询问过她一次，这也是撒谎。不说派出所和学校保卫部，据我所知，市公安局在95年开始就传唤过她很多次”、“经公安部调查，在做了大量工作后，孙维本人承认她对朱令下毒----”等等。最后，孙维特别声明，“我已委托家人于2006年1月9日向公安机关正式提交书面申请，强烈要求公安机关采取透明办案方式重新侦查朱令中毒案件，查明真相，给朱令家人一个交代、还我清白！”[84]
笑望人生
摆数据和逻辑嘛
干嘛遁了啊
方舟子说 清华化学系的孙维用的是溶剂，毒性不够，必须用固体的铊
供大家参考
你自己才有预设的立场，那就是抓住一切鸡毛蒜皮的洗地
我没有预设立场，
纯粹解读数据
认为我解读有误，摆出数据和计算来驳倒我
我只尊重数据和逻辑
受过理工科教育的人的基本素养