这是 myth, 不要再这样传播了。葡萄糖是 preferred energy source when both glucose and ketone are present (with the latter in smaller amount than the first)。如果葡萄糖没了,大脑就用 ketone。 preferred 葡萄糖简单地说是因为葡萄糖 readily available at that moment, 用起来方便, that''s it。 babies 生下来 naturally ketogenic, 要是这时候用试纸测他们的尿,会发现他们 deep in ketosis state at ALL time. Newborn are born with trillions of neurons, 头几个月母乳里脂肪含量极高,这是大自然的安排,fat for body growth, fat for brain growth 要看 peer review research paper 的, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7699472/ 看 3.1, 3.2 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnmol.2021.732120/full, 拉下去看 conclusion 科普文 https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/the-fat-fueled-brain-unnatural-or-advantageous/ 没耐心看全文的,这是其中一句话 So the brain is happily deriving energy from ketones – sure, but why would this be protective against such a variety of brain diseases?
这是 myth, 不要再这样传播了。葡萄糖是 preferred energy source when both glucose and ketone are present (with the latter in smaller amount than the first)。如果葡萄糖没了,大脑就用 ketone。 preferred 葡萄糖简单地说是因为葡萄糖 readily available at that moment, 用起来方便, that''s it。 babies 生下来 naturally ketogenic, 要是这时候用试纸测他们的尿,会发现他们 deep in ketosis state at ALL time. Newborn are born with trillions of neurons, 头几个月母乳里脂肪含量极高,这是大自然的安排,fat for body growth, fat for brain growth 要看 peer review research paper 的, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7699472/ 看 3.1, 3.2 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnmol.2021.732120/full, 拉下去看 conclusion 科普文 https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/the-fat-fueled-brain-unnatural-or-advantageous/ 没耐心看全文的,这是其中一句话 So the brain is happily deriving energy from ketones – sure, but why would this be protective against such a variety of brain diseases?
这篇很容易读 https://realmealrevolution.com/real-thinking/ketosis-key-to-human-babies-big-brains/ In the second half of pregnancy ketones supply as much as 30% of the energy required by the foetal brain, implying that ketones are essential for foetal brain development.3 During the third trimester of pregnancy and at birth, both mom and foetus are naturally in a state of mild ketosis.4 Within the first few days after birth, babies adapt to using their fat stores as their primary fuel-source, and begin to produce more ketones.5 Babies convert the fat from their stores and their diet (ideally breastmilk) into ketones.6 These ketones provide them with the energy they need between feeds and act as key building blocks for essential brain structures.7
Did you even read the article? Or research on your own? 我没说牛奶,就说母乳 Breastmilk is high in fat (55%), moderate in carbohydrate (39%) and low in protein (6%). 从数字上算,刚生下来几个月的babies, 脂肪提供73%的所需能量,碳水提供23%。考虑到碳水纯粹是供能的,脂肪也许不是,还有其他生理功能,即便母乳里不是所有的脂肪都拿来供能,也比碳水提供的高多了。 越往后,尤其是开始辅食后,母乳脂肪含量开始降低。macro 比例开始跟普通大人靠近
Did you even read the article? Or research on your own? 我没说牛奶,就说母乳 Breastmilk is high in fat (55%), moderate in carbohydrate (39%) and low in protein (6%). 从数字上算,刚生下来几个月的babies, 脂肪提供73%的所需能量,碳水提供23%。考虑到碳水纯粹是供能的,脂肪也许不是,还有其他生理功能,即便母乳里不是所有的脂肪都拿来供能,也比碳水提供的高多了。 越往后,尤其是开始辅食后,母乳脂肪含量开始降低。macro 比例开始跟普通大人靠近 Slou9900 发表于 2023-04-22 14:59
相反,ketone 是很好的 brain fuel, 只不过一般人的饮食调用不到 ketone。
neurodegenerative diseases 比如帕金森和阿兹海默,症状之一就是脑神经活动下降,neuron metabolism 下降。high fat diet is proven to be helpful in these regards.
对普通健康人来说,ketone 是不是比葡萄糖更好的脑能量来源,这个不好说。但是,请不要再宣传大脑必须一定用葡萄糖为能源这种 misinformation 了
你说的是对的,应该说通常情况下葡萄糖是大脑主要能量来源。
不吃米面会便秘
我会头疼得比较厉害,便秘严重,比较严格低碳不适合我。
谢谢科普。
日本人饮食碳水也不少啊,只要不过量就可以了,生酮饮食估计也就流行一阵,最后肯定还是碳水恒久远。
Keto diet 时,尤其是第一次keto, 食物 choices 非常limited, 因为不知道怎么吃,不知不觉中,水和盐分的摄入就比过去少很多,蔬菜也是,严格的 keto 根茎类蔬菜都得少吃,是这些因素导致便秘。
恢复正常饮食后,也不是因为吃了米面便秘好了,而是随着吃了米面什么都能吃都能喝了。
多吃好的油脂,多吃纤维素 (fiber 不提供热量,keto 时可以吃),. 便秘就不是问题
馋肉不算馋,必须馋碳水才算?
电解质水用吗?
我没试过电解质水,我就是吃得咸一点,买的镁钾supplement 还没吃呢。我 keto 不是长期的,做过三次,每次三四个月,其他时候就是普通低碳,少吃米面和水果,总的来说不缺微量元素,我就懒得额外补充了
mark .
吃水果就不是低碳了。一个小苹果15克碳水,一个香蕉30克碳水,一片面包才13克碳水而已。喝牛奶的碳水也相当高,8oz牛奶里面碳水也是15克。前面好些人说婴儿是keto diet,我不懂keto diet的定义,但是母乳和牛奶一样都是8oz差不多15克碳水,只不过这个碳水是乳糖不是淀粉。一cup米饭的碳水大概45克。一般吃米饭比较少的人,一顿吃不到一cup米饭,也就顶两个大一点的水果。吃三明治的话就两片面包,也和俩水果的碳水差不多。而且水果里面还二聚糖多,生糖比淀粉快。
https://realmealrevolution.com/real-thinking/ketosis-key-to-human-babies-big-brains/
In the second half of pregnancy ketones supply as much as 30% of the energy required by the foetal brain, implying that ketones are essential for foetal brain development.3 During the third trimester of pregnancy and at birth, both mom and foetus are naturally in a state of mild ketosis.4 Within the first few days after birth, babies adapt to using their fat stores as their primary fuel-source, and begin to produce more ketones.5 Babies convert the fat from their stores and their diet (ideally breastmilk) into ketones.6 These ketones provide them with the energy they need between feeds and act as key building blocks for essential brain structures.7
母乳high in fat, moderate in carb。喂完一顿后母乳里的乳糖使得 baby ketosis 水平立即降低,但是乳糖利用极快,很快 baby 就又重新进入 ketosis 状态,下次feed 之前 ketone body 水平最高。
只要每日所需能量的30%以下来自碳水,这就是相对正常饮食而言的低碳。每天100克左右碳水,还是能吃一点水果的,但是绝对要算着吃,不能随心所欲,以为不吃主食就高枕无忧了。水果里 berry 类含糖量最低,可以吃一点,苹果香蕉确实是水果里的碳水炸弹
第一句话就错了。母乳和牛奶都是碳水含量比脂肪要高的。
Did you even read the article? Or research on your own?
我没说牛奶,就说母乳
Breastmilk is high in fat (55%), moderate in carbohydrate (39%) and low in protein (6%).
从数字上算,刚生下来几个月的babies, 脂肪提供73%的所需能量,碳水提供23%。考虑到碳水纯粹是供能的,脂肪也许不是,还有其他生理功能,即便母乳里不是所有的脂肪都拿来供能,也比碳水提供的高多了。
越往后,尤其是开始辅食后,母乳脂肪含量开始降低。macro 比例开始跟普通大人靠近
baby在ketosis状态这个事实,不能用来证明对成年人而言keto diet更优吧。baby的生长需求和身体状况和成年人大不相同
我提 newborn 不是为了证明对成年人来说 keto diet 更优。
是因为很多人认为大脑只能用葡萄糖,不能烧脂肪,我只是这对这个讲的,fetus 和 newborn 都能用脂肪的代谢物来供能,长脑子,大脑可以烧 ketone。大脑在葡萄糖和ketone 都存在的情况下优先使用葡萄糖,葡萄糖烧完了就开始烧 ketone, 而且烧得很好。
keto 做对了,包括长期低碳的,脑子比普通饮食下好使,这不是一个人或者几个人的经验。
很多人keto 有不好的体验,很可能是因为没做对,或者时间给的不够, 半途而废。
那你提newborn有什么意义呢?newborn的大脑能用ketone,跟成年人的大脑能不能用ketone没有关系啊
你这篇文章可能是按能量来计算百分比的,因为同等质量的碳水能量比脂肪低。你随便google一下,都是说母乳的碳水比脂肪含量要高的。
你要是说 newborn 和成年人大脑代谢 ketone 能力和 需求 不同,我就不说什么了。你非说“没有关系”。
对我来说必须坚持正常饮食,可以稍微减量和加大蔬菜的含量