你读 water 还是读成 wader

d
danielzzhao
楼主 (北美华人网)
认真听的话,90%的美国人都读成 wader.
看了一篇文章,贴在下面,说人家不是读 d, 是弱 t,是 tap, 或者 flap. 如果这篇文章是对的,我的问题是:弱化的 t 和 d 有什么区别? 这个tap 是怎么发出来的?
我看过一些 youtube 视频,就是说在 非重读的情况下,t 就读成 d。
大家怎么看?






It’s often stated that Americans pronounce T like D. This is not quite accurate. In American English, T and D are always pronounced distinctly in words like dip and tip, or attack and adapt, or bleat and bleed. However, there are many words, such as metal and medal, or bleating and bleeding, or bitter and bidder, where T and D are indeed pronounced the same for many speakers of American English. In these words, it is not the case that T is being pronounced as a D. Rather, it is the case that both T and D are being pronounced as a third sound, commonly known as a “tap” or a “flap.” The “tap” that we may hear in a word like bleating is not the same sound as the final consonant in bleat, but it is also not the same as the final consonant in bleed. 
We do not find the “tap” sound in all positions in a word in American English. We only find it between vowels. Specifically, we only find it between vowels when the following vowel is not stressed. Stressed syllables are indicated in our dictionaries by one of two marks, either the high stress mark, /ˈ/, for a syllable which has the greatest degree of stress in the word, or the low stress mark, /ˌ/, for a syllable which doesn’t have the greatest degree of stress in the word, but which still receives stress. Any syllable not preceded by one of these two marks is unstressed. Thus, we may hear the “tap” sound in words like metal, bleeding, or bitter, but we would not hear the “tap” in words like attack, since the vowel following the T is in a stressed syllable. It should be noted that R acts like a vowel in American English with regards to tapping, thus words like barter, herding, or aorta will have taps. Also, a “tap” can be found at the ends of words when the following word begins with an unstressed vowel. For example, in the sentence "I will read a book," the D at the end of read will sound like a tap.
Not all speakers of American English pronounce T and D as taps in the situations mentioned. Some will keep T and D distinct in all situations. Tapping of T and D is also not common in British English though it is common in Australian English. Even some speakers who do use taps might not always do it consistently, and might pronounce a word with a tap sometimes, and with a regular T or D other times. A learner of English who wants to keep T and D distinct in all situations will be understood. However, if you want to sound like a native speaker of American English, it is useful to learn when to pronounce T or D as a tap.
d
danielzzhao
等答案......
m
meeow
Minnesota
约拿
sorry , wo想歪了。 原来真的是讨论pronounciation.
d
danielzzhao
sorry , wo想歪了。 原来真的是讨论pronounciation.
约拿 发表于 2023-04-04 15:24

如何想歪了?
D
Dida123
如何想歪了?
danielzzhao 发表于 2023-04-04 15:26

我也想歪了,不过我只明白T,不懂D
t
teabucket
清辅音t 在很多时候浊化成d,stay - sday strike - sdrike, stop - sdop 但是也有例外student 要浊化成像“纠” 而不是 “丢”
d
danielzzhao
清辅音t 在很多时候浊化成d,stay - sday strike - sdrike, stop - sdop 但是也有例外student 要浊化成像“纠” 而不是 “丢”
teabucket 发表于 2023-04-04 15:43

我感觉大部分人读成 sdudent
r
rfiw
清辅音t 在很多时候浊化成d,stay - sday strike - sdrike, stop - sdop 但是也有例外student 要浊化成像“纠” 而不是 “丢”
teabucket 发表于 2023-04-04 15:43

还没听过student 读成像"纠”的。
唯食忘忧
清辅音t 在很多时候浊化成d,stay - sday strike - sdrike, stop - sdop 但是也有例外student 要浊化成像“纠” 而不是 “丢”
teabucket 发表于 2023-04-04 15:43

额,这个不是美音独有的,t在s后面都发d。楼主说的是water里的t之类的,英式发t,美式基本发d。
d
danielzzhao
额,这个不是美音独有的,t在s后面都发d。楼主说的是water里的t之类的,英式发t,美式基本发d。
唯食忘忧 发表于 2023-04-04 16:04

同意。
k
kik
回复 10楼唯食忘忧的帖子
这个也不是英文独有的,很多语言都有这样的浊化,日语里也很多
b
beihun
我感觉大部分人读成 sdudent
danielzzhao 发表于 2023-04-04 15:48

这楼不错
f
feifeiduan
我记得好像读wader是加州口音,并不是所有美国人
w
welkin25
清辅音t 在很多时候浊化成d,stay - sday strike - sdrike, stop - sdop 但是也有例外student 要浊化成像“纠” 而不是 “丢”
teabucket 发表于 2023-04-04 15:43

Stay里的tay的音跟day还是有区别的,只不过中国人听不太出来(因为中文里没有这个音)
S
SheldonCooper
靠近d
n
niuniudabao
certain 不会说成是cerdain
S
SheldonCooper
s纠dent感觉澳大利亚人这么发音 美国人我听到的都是sdudent
p
percipient64
这个叫 Flapping T. T 可以吞进去。比如 Cotton。
https://www.goalsenglish.com/lessons/flap-t-sound-american-english-accent
m
meonline
还没听过student 读成像"纠”的。
rfiw 发表于 2023-04-04 15:58


就是s后面的t发成了d。跟education的du发音近似 不是纠也不是丢也不是杜。就是国际音标 dju的发音
N
NataliePortman
英音 窝特 美音 挖~的
M
MandyF
清辅音t 在很多时候浊化成d,stay - sday strike - sdrike, stop - sdop 但是也有例外student 要浊化成像“纠” 而不是 “丢”
teabucket 发表于 2023-04-04 15:43

这是在s后面的元音重读的情况下才把清辅音读成浊辅音,楼主说的是词尾的发音轻读,两回事。
e
emmachka
Stay里的tay的音跟day还是有区别的,只不过中国人听不太出来(因为中文里没有这个音)
welkin25 发表于 2023-04-04 21:15

嗯,我觉得说清辅音浊化不准确,应该是失去爆破,和浊辅音是不同的音。好像法文里面的gâteau和cadeau,难倒一群人
t
teabucket
我听不出来是d, water 那个t就是舌头大了卷,两不像
t
teabucket
我感觉大部分人读成 sdudent
danielzzhao 发表于 2023-04-04 15:48


r
rsbljsycx8bzbbx
der
c
chufanpeng
我也想歪了,不过我只明白T,不懂D
Dida123 发表于 2023-04-04 15:28

没有D哪来的T?
c
chufanpeng
certain 不会说成是cerdain
niuniudabao 发表于 2023-04-04 21:22

会的
e
eiyou
英英和美英吗, 好像看过有个明星吐槽她小孩的美英,就是用water举例的
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lesity
我觉得每次读之前都要深呼吸酝酿一下保持头脑清晰的词:bowl,bull和bow
k
kelsey33
只听过 “我特” 和 “挖特”。 Wader???? Der???阿三吧。
咸鱼红烧肉

就是s后面的t发成了d。跟education的du发音近似 不是纠也不是丢也不是杜。就是国际音标 dju的发音
meonline 发表于 2023-04-05 01:02

对,edu不管什么国家都是发成纠。
咸鱼红烧肉
certain 不会说成是cerdain
niuniudabao 发表于 2023-04-04 21:22

美国人都是把T去掉,发成sir嗯。
m
mvdk
听起来像印度英语
我想保护你
其实就是t浊化,也不是发d,是类似d和t之间,原因是这样发音省力,如果要发标准ter的话,要费劲
c
chiffongirlx
英音 窝特 美音 挖~的
NataliePortman 发表于 2023-04-05 01:03

被老美纠正过water的发音-挖的。那我以前学的是英式英语。
i
iceblue
我跟waiter说过 water 她们听不懂。 改成wader 就没问题。