大家觉得brand的药和仿制药在药效上能有多大差别

8
815
楼主 (北美华人网)
一般医院里拿药多数是仿制的,今天药剂师说有brand 的药,我就拿了,价格上贵了差不多一倍,我想试试看有没有更好
n
nodoubt1981
其他不知道,但ambien安眠药,品牌和generic我吃起来效果天差地别,generic明显效果差。
t
tianguanghushui
一般我的经验是brand药效果更好,generic更差一点。以前我想都一个东西,谁生产差别大吗?后来一想,虽然化学式一样,谁告诉你生产工艺一样,纯度一样了?我是不太懂,但我猜药厂下游一系列工艺检测等等也不能是白拿钱的吧?大药厂都有几把刷子的。
w
wsaaa
正好在看一本书 叫仿制药的真相,Lz可以去看看…
大喜妞
正好在看一本书 叫仿制药的真相,Lz可以去看看…
wsaaa 发表于 2023-02-18 19:19

现在就想了解一下要点,请问能好心给个总结吗?谢谢!
g
gokgs
感觉应该差别不大吧, 大多数药的生产应该门槛没那么高。 仿制药的说法感觉非常有歧视, 就是 generic vs branded.
m
mtwash
一般我的经验是brand药效果更好,generic更差一点。以前我想都一个东西,谁生产差别大吗?后来一想,虽然化学式一样,谁告诉你生产工艺一样,纯度一样了?我是不太懂,但我猜药厂下游一系列工艺检测等等也不能是白拿钱的吧?大药厂都有几把刷子的。
tianguanghushui 发表于 2023-02-18 19:15

化学成分一模一样是没有问题的
但制剂的工艺就是商业秘密了,无法做到一样
我只是在想,有没有什么牛逼例子,某个generic的生产商制剂水平更高,比原研药更好的?
A
Athenli2015
回复 7楼mtwash的帖子
有过的。前几年天朝一堆仿制药企业 展出的药物缓释数据图比原来的进口药好。后来要求申报时提供原始数据,集体没了下文
A
Athenli2015
回复 5楼大喜妞的帖子
我的总结就是: 印度的仿制药烂,天朝的更烂。 但是FDA为了给美帝医疗体系省钱,人为降低了一些标准
b
babeann
至少advil这样的,吃起来效果没有差别
k
kekkai
药物分子一样,纯度可能不同,剂方可能不同。我本身学药也是做药的,我建议买原研药
吃鸡蛋
其他不知道,但ambien安眠药,品牌和generic我吃起来效果天差地别,generic明显效果差。
nodoubt1981 发表于 2023-02-18 19:04

Mood modifying 药有很大的精神因素,你要是不知道哪个是品牌药哪个是generic 药,可能就不会有区别了
p
proserpina
In general, only buy name brand products.
f
firmiana
怎么说呢,我觉得连泰诺原厂和仿制都有差距。。
f
fridec2
现在就想了解一下要点,请问能好心给个总结吗?谢谢!
大喜妞 发表于 2023-02-18 19:22

仿制药的真相 = Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom
chatGPT 的答案:
In her book "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom", Katherine Eban investigates the generic drug industry and exposes numerous instances of fraud, deception, and quality control issues within the industry. Through extensive research and interviews with industry insiders, she uncovers how some generic drug manufacturers have cut corners in order to maximize profits, often at the expense of patient safety.
One of Eban's main conclusions is that the generic drug industry is plagued by a lack of transparency and accountability. She argues that regulatory agencies such as the FDA have been unable to effectively monitor and regulate the industry, and that many manufacturers have taken advantage of this lack of oversight to engage in unethical practices.
Eban also highlights the challenges faced by consumers and healthcare providers in trying to navigate the complex and opaque world of generic drug manufacturing. She argues that patients and providers need more information and transparency in order to make informed decisions about the drugs they use.
Overall, Eban's book is a powerful indictment of the generic drug industry, and highlights the urgent need for reform and increased accountability in the manufacturing and regulation of these essential medicines.
在她的著作《谎言瓶:仿制药繁荣的内幕故事》中,凯瑟琳·伊班调查了仿制药产业,并揭露了该行业内部存在的许多欺诈、欺骗和质量控制问题。通过广泛的研究和对行业内部人士的访谈,她揭示了一些仿制药制造商为了最大化利润而削减成本的情况,往往以患者安全为代价。
伊班的一个主要结论是,仿制药产业受到缺乏透明度和问责制的困扰。她认为,美国食品药品监督管理局等监管机构一直无法有效监控和监管该行业,许多制造商利用这种缺乏监督的情况从事不道德的做法。
伊班还强调了消费者和医疗保健提供者在尝试驾驭仿制药制造复杂和不透明的世界时面临的挑战。她认为,患者和提供者需要更多的信息和透明度,以便在使用药物时做出明智的决定。
总的来说,伊班的书是对仿制药产业的有力控诉,并强调了在这些必需药品的制造和监管方面需要进行改革和增加问责制的紧迫性。
f
fridec2
Q: How many chapters are there in the book?
A: The book "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" by Katherine Eban has a total of 15 chapters.
Q: What is the summary of the first chapter
A: The first chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "A Secret Club". In this chapter, Katherine Eban sets the stage for her investigation into the generic drug industry by describing her visit to an Indian drug manufacturing facility. She explains how she witnessed the stark contrast between the shiny, high-tech facade presented to visitors and the gritty reality of the manufacturing process, which involved inadequate quality control measures and overworked employees.
Eban also provides an overview of the history of the generic drug industry and its importance in providing affordable medicines to patients around the world. She notes that while generics now account for the majority of drugs sold in the United States, many consumers and healthcare providers are unaware of the challenges and risks associated with the manufacturing of these drugs.
Finally, Eban introduces the main themes that she will explore throughout the book, including the lack of transparency and accountability in the industry, the role of regulatory agencies such as the FDA, and the impact of fraud and deception on patient safety. The chapter ends by setting the stage for Eban's investigation and highlighting the urgent need for greater scrutiny and reform within the generic drug industry.
f
fridec2
Q: what is the summary of the second chapter
A: The second chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "The Road to Ranbaxy". In this chapter, Katherine Eban provides a detailed account of the rise of the Indian pharmaceutical company Ranbaxy and its journey to become one of the world's largest generic drug manufacturers.
Eban describes the founding of Ranbaxy in the 1960s by the Singh family, and the company's early success in the Indian market. She also explains how the company expanded its operations to other countries, including the United States, where it quickly became a major player in the generic drug industry.
However, Eban also highlights the numerous quality control issues and instances of fraud that plagued Ranbaxy throughout its history. She explains how the company falsified data to gain FDA approval for some of its drugs, and how it routinely ignored quality control standards in order to maximize profits.
The chapter ends with Eban setting the stage for the rest of her investigation, noting that Ranbaxy's story is emblematic of the broader problems facing the generic drug industry as a whole.
s
sanguo9
怎么说呢,我觉得连泰诺原厂和仿制都有差距。。
firmiana 发表于 2023-02-18 19:43

绝大部分情况下都是一个地方产的,装进不同的瓶子而已
f
fridec2
Q: what is the summary of the third chapter?
A: The third chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "A Culture of Fraud". In this chapter, Katherine Eban delves deeper into the culture of fraud and deception that pervades the generic drug industry.
Eban provides numerous examples of generic drug manufacturers cutting corners and engaging in unethical practices in order to maximize profits. She describes how some companies manipulate test results to meet regulatory standards, while others use substandard raw materials or fail to properly maintain manufacturing equipment.
Eban also highlights the challenges faced by regulatory agencies such as the FDA in trying to keep up with the rapidly expanding and increasingly complex generic drug industry. She explains how the FDA's limited resources and outdated regulatory framework have allowed some manufacturers to continue engaging in unethical practices with impunity.
Finally, Eban introduces the story of one whistleblower, Dinesh Thakur, who worked for the Indian generic drug manufacturer Ranbaxy and uncovered widespread fraud and deception within the company. Thakur's story will become a major focus of the book as Eban explores the impact of whistleblowers on the generic drug industry.
f
fridec2
Q: what is the summary of the fourth chapter
A: The fourth chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "The Art of the Data Dump". In this chapter, Katherine Eban continues to explore the culture of fraud and deception within the generic drug industry, focusing specifically on how some companies manipulate and falsify data in order to meet regulatory standards.
Eban describes how some generic drug manufacturers use a technique known as the "data dump" to overwhelm regulatory agencies such as the FDA with reams of irrelevant data, in order to distract them from the real issues at hand. She also explains how some companies manipulate data by selectively choosing which test results to report, or by fabricating data entirely.
Eban provides numerous examples of companies that have engaged in these practices, including Ranbaxy, which she describes as one of the worst offenders. She also explores the challenges faced by regulatory agencies in trying to detect and prevent data manipulation, given the sheer volume of data that they are required to review.
The chapter ends with Eban raising the question of how patients and healthcare providers can trust the safety and efficacy of generic drugs in light of the widespread fraud and deception within the industry.
f
fridec2
Q: what is the summary of the fifth chapter
A: The fifth chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "The China Connection". In this chapter, Katherine Eban shifts her focus to China, which has become an increasingly important player in the global generic drug industry.
Eban describes the explosive growth of China's pharmaceutical industry over the past several decades, fueled by a combination of government support and a low-cost, high-volume manufacturing model. She also explores the challenges faced by Western companies that try to do business in China, including concerns about intellectual property theft and corruption.
Eban highlights the case of the Chinese company Zhejiang Huahai Pharmaceuticals, which manufactured a generic version of the blood pressure drug valsartan that was contaminated with a known carcinogen. She explains how the contamination went undetected for months, and how the company initially tried to cover it up before eventually issuing a recall.
The chapter also delves into the challenges of regulating the global supply chain for generic drugs, given the complex web of suppliers, manufacturers, and distributors involved. Eban describes how the FDA and other regulatory agencies are struggling to keep up with the pace of globalization and the increasing complexity of the industry.
Overall, the chapter paints a complex and often troubling picture of the generic drug industry, highlighting the challenges of ensuring patient safety in a global marketplace where profits often take priority over quality control.
f
fridec2
Q: what is the summary of the sixth chapter
A: The sixth chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "The Ghost in the Machine". In this chapter, Katherine Eban delves into the technical aspects of generic drug manufacturing, focusing on the role of analytical testing in ensuring product quality.
Eban explains that analytical testing is a critical component of the generic drug manufacturing process, as it is used to verify that the drug product meets specific quality standards. She describes how manufacturers use a variety of analytical techniques to test the drug product at various stages of production, from the raw materials to the finished product.
However, Eban also highlights the challenges of ensuring the accuracy and reliability of analytical testing, given the complex and rapidly evolving nature of the industry. She describes how some manufacturers have engaged in fraudulent practices, such as manipulating test results or substituting high-quality raw materials for cheaper, lower-quality ones, in order to pass regulatory inspections.
Eban provides several examples of companies that have been caught engaging in these practices, including Ranbaxy and Wockhardt, both based in India. She also describes how some manufacturers have developed sophisticated techniques for masking the true quality of their products, making it difficult for regulatory agencies to detect fraud and deception.
Overall, the chapter underscores the importance of analytical testing in ensuring the safety and efficacy of generic drugs, while also highlighting the need for greater transparency and accountability in the manufacturing and regulation of these essential medicines.
f
fridec2
Q: what is the summary of the seventh chapter
A: The seventh chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "The Regulators". In this chapter, Katherine Eban examines the role of regulatory agencies in overseeing the generic drug industry and ensuring patient safety.
Eban begins by describing the history of the FDA and its evolving role in regulating the generic drug industry. She notes that while the FDA has made significant progress in recent years in improving the safety and quality of generic drugs, it still faces significant challenges in regulating an industry that has become increasingly complex and globalized.
Eban also explores the challenges faced by other regulatory agencies around the world, including the European Medicines Agency and the World Health Organization. She describes how these agencies have struggled to keep pace with the rapid growth of the generic drug industry, and how some have been accused of being too lenient or too slow to respond to safety concerns.
The chapter also delves into the challenges of conducting inspections of generic drug manufacturing facilities, which are often located in remote or hard-to-reach areas. Eban describes how some manufacturers have been able to evade detection by regulatory agencies by moving their operations to new locations or engaging in "data fabrication" to cover up quality control issues.
Despite these challenges, Eban notes that regulatory agencies play a critical role in ensuring the safety and efficacy of generic drugs, and that improvements in regulatory oversight are essential to maintaining public trust in these important medicines.
Overall, the chapter provides a nuanced and insightful look at the complex and often challenging world of regulatory oversight in the generic drug industry.
b
bran
我吃advil都觉得仿制药不行。。。当然你也可以说是心理作用
f
fridec2
Q: what is the summary of the eighth chapter
A: The eighth chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "The False Fronts". In this chapter, Katherine Eban explores the tactics used by some generic drug manufacturers to deceive regulators and consumers about the safety and quality of their products.
Eban begins by describing the phenomenon of "facade factories", which are manufacturing facilities that are set up to look legitimate but are actually used to conceal fraudulent practices. She describes how some manufacturers go to great lengths to create the illusion of a well-run and compliant operation, while in reality engaging in practices such as data manipulation and the use of substandard raw materials.
Eban also describes how some manufacturers use "contract laboratories" to perform quality control testing on their products, even though these laboratories may not meet the necessary standards for accuracy and reliability. She notes that these contract laboratories are often located in countries with less stringent regulations, making it easier for manufacturers to engage in fraudulent practices without detection.
The chapter provides several examples of companies that have used these tactics to deceive regulators and consumers, including Ranbaxy and Emcure, both based in India. Eban notes that these companies were able to operate with impunity for many years, despite repeated warnings from regulators and industry insiders.
Overall, the chapter underscores the need for greater transparency and accountability in the generic drug industry, as well as the importance of vigilance on the part of regulators and consumers in identifying and exposing fraudulent practices.
f
fridec2
Q: what is the summary of the ninth chapter
A: The ninth chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "The Whistleblowers". In this chapter, Katherine Eban profiles several individuals who have spoken out against fraud and corruption in the generic drug industry.
Eban begins by describing the challenges faced by whistleblowers in the generic drug industry, including the risk of retaliation from employers and the difficulty of proving wrongdoing in a complex and opaque industry. She notes that whistleblowers play a critical role in exposing fraud and promoting accountability in the industry, despite the personal and professional risks they face.
The chapter profiles several whistleblowers, including Dinesh Thakur, a former executive at Ranbaxy who exposed widespread data manipulation and quality control issues at the company. Thakur's revelations led to a $500 million settlement with the US Department of Justice and helped to spur greater scrutiny of the generic drug industry.
Eban also profiles several other whistleblowers who have spoken out against fraud and corruption in the industry, including Peter Humphrey, a private investigator who helped to uncover wrongdoing at GlaxoSmithKline's Chinese operations, and Cheryl Eckard, a former quality control executive at GlaxoSmithKline who exposed serious quality control issues at the company's manufacturing facilities.
Overall, the chapter highlights the important role that whistleblowers play in promoting transparency and accountability in the generic drug industry. It also underscores the need for greater protections and support for whistleblowers, who often face significant personal and professional risks in speaking out against fraud and corruption.
l
lolilollipop
一般医院里拿药多数是仿制的,今天药剂师说有brand 的药,我就拿了,价格上贵了差不多一倍,我想试试看有没有更好
815 发表于 2023-02-18 19:00

大部分普通药区别不大。个别药仿制的不如brand
f
fridec2
Q: what is the summary of the tenth chapter
A: The tenth chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "The Global Supply Chain". In this chapter, Katherine Eban explores the complexities of the global supply chain for generic drugs, which involves multiple intermediaries and often spans multiple countries.
Eban notes that the global supply chain for generic drugs has become increasingly complex in recent years, as manufacturers seek to source raw materials and finished products from the lowest-cost suppliers around the world. She describes how this has led to a proliferation of intermediaries, including trading companies and brokers, who play a key role in connecting manufacturers with suppliers and customers.
Eban also notes that the global supply chain for generic drugs is highly susceptible to fraud and counterfeit products, as it can be difficult to trace the origins of raw materials and finished products. She describes how some manufacturers have exploited this complexity to engage in fraudulent practices such as the substitution of substandard raw materials and the use of counterfeit packaging.
The chapter provides several examples of companies that have struggled to manage their global supply chains, including Ranbaxy and Wockhardt, both based in India. Eban notes that these companies faced significant challenges in sourcing raw materials and ensuring the quality of their products, and that their difficulties were compounded by a lack of transparency and accountability in the industry.
Overall, the chapter highlights the challenges faced by manufacturers, regulators, and consumers in navigating the global supply chain for generic drugs, and underscores the need for greater transparency and accountability in the industry.
c
can-can
价格差别太大了,我开ambien 都是要求brand name,医生每次都要大费周折, 799$ 一个月,我能吃一年不止。自己出50$,很值得。可惜现在好多药物cvs 没有brand name的了。
f
fridec2
Q: what is the summary of the eleventh chapter
A: The eleventh chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "The Future of Generic Drugs". In this chapter, Katherine Eban examines the future of the generic drug industry, and the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead.
Eban notes that the generic drug industry is facing significant challenges, including increasing competition, rising costs, and a growing focus on quality and safety. She suggests that these challenges are likely to drive consolidation in the industry, as larger manufacturers acquire smaller players in order to gain scale and diversify their product portfolios.
Eban also notes that the industry is likely to face increasing regulatory scrutiny, as regulators seek to address the quality and safety issues that have been uncovered in recent years. She suggests that this could lead to increased costs for manufacturers, as they are forced to invest in new quality control systems and processes.
The chapter also explores the potential for new technologies to transform the generic drug industry. Eban notes that advances in areas such as 3D printing and personalized medicine could lead to new opportunities for manufacturers to differentiate their products and compete more effectively in the marketplace.
Overall, the chapter suggests that the future of the generic drug industry is likely to be shaped by a complex array of factors, including regulatory pressures, technological advances, and changing market dynamics. Eban suggests that the industry will need to adapt and innovate in order to thrive in this challenging environment.
f
fridec2
Q: what is the summary of the twelfth chapter
A: The twelfth and final chapter of "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom" is titled "The Price of Cheap Medicine". In this chapter, Katherine Eban reflects on the implications of her investigation into the generic drug industry, and the challenges faced by patients and healthcare providers in navigating this complex and often opaque world.
Eban notes that while generic drugs have played a critical role in reducing the cost of healthcare and expanding access to essential medicines, her investigation has exposed numerous instances of fraud, deception, and quality control issues within the industry. She suggests that these issues have undermined patient confidence in generic drugs, and have highlighted the urgent need for increased transparency and accountability in the manufacturing and regulation of these essential medicines.
The chapter also explores the implications of the global supply chain for generic drugs, and the challenges faced by patients and healthcare providers in trying to navigate this complex and often opaque system. Eban suggests that patients and providers need more information and transparency in order to make informed decisions about the drugs they use, and she calls for greater collaboration and communication between manufacturers, regulators, and healthcare providers.
Finally, the chapter highlights the critical role that patients and healthcare providers can play in driving change in the generic drug industry. Eban suggests that by advocating for increased transparency and accountability, and by supporting manufacturers that prioritize quality and safety, patients and providers can help to ensure that the promise of cheap, accessible medicine is realized in a way that prioritizes patient safety and well-being.
Overall, the chapter and the book as a whole underscore the importance of ongoing scrutiny and oversight in the generic drug industry, and the critical role that patients and healthcare providers can play in advocating for greater transparency and accountability in the manufacturing and regulation of these essential medicines.
d
denali
Active ingredient 是一样的。inactive ingredients 可以不一样。如果是生产brand 那个厂家自己生产的generic, 一般是可以的。但如果是别的厂家生产,就和不好说了。但fda 一般是鼓励用generic
L
LCMS
因药而异的。打个比较极端的比方,天朝的青霉素过敏率远高于美国的青霉素。就是因为杂质太多。 同在美国的药也会有类似问题,只是不那么明显罢了,毕竟大多数杂质根本不会要人命的。
找deal
药剂工艺的差别可以导致巨大的差别,为啥我国mrna药物不行,工艺不行啊
H
Happylifeee
我吃advil都觉得仿制药不行。。。当然你也可以说是心理作用
bran 发表于 2023-02-18 20:16

请问你吃的是哪个布洛芬啊?我看沃尔玛和target都有自己牌子的布洛芬,价格比advil便宜好多
m
momclub17
我迷信,我宁可花钱买brand。我心里感觉就是更有效
b
bye2020
有generic,保险还包brand name吗?
h
huaren_2018
连generic之间都有区别。 最近吃的药寄来的generic不是原来的牌子。感觉药效弱。
c
chiffongirlx
FDA都说了: FDA-approved generic medicines work in the same way and provide the same clinical benefit and risks as their brand-name counterpart. 去FDA网站上看看就知道了。
c
chiffongirlx
如所购保险可支付大部分时,当然首选品牌。
b
bran
请问你吃的是哪个布洛芬啊?我看沃尔玛和target都有自己牌子的布洛芬,价格比advil便宜好多
Happylifeee 发表于 2023-02-18 22:10

好像是Walgreen自家的
l
lolilollipop
因药而异的。打个比较极端的比方,天朝的青霉素过敏率远高于美国的青霉素。就是因为杂质太多。 同在美国的药也会有类似问题,只是不那么明显罢了,毕竟大多数杂质根本不会要人命的。
LCMS 发表于 2023-02-18 21:16

美国的抗生素几乎都是国内制造的
p
playForever
因药而异的。打个比较极端的比方,天朝的青霉素过敏率远高于美国的青霉素。就是因为杂质太多。 同在美国的药也会有类似问题,只是不那么明显罢了,毕竟大多数杂质根本不会要人命的。
LCMS 发表于 2023-02-18 21:16

绝对是这样的。好像看到过一篇文章说 Merck 的高血压药专利过期后(这药为 Merck赚了很多钱), 其他药厂也能生产了。但这个专利只是给个药的分子结构。Merck 不会给 辅助材料,添加剂的具体配方。 后来 Generic 药厂也能出的长期服用的高血压药, 那个药的辅助添加剂的质量不行,药效就是比不上 Merck 的药。 这篇文章用了几个药来举例,但我就记得这个Merck药是一个例子(因为当时曾经买过它的股票)。

诺诺
我吃generic的避孕药会一直非规则流血,心情不好。吃了brand的马上这些症状都没有。ob说,有的人药物敏感就会这样。
l
life99f
连generic之间都有区别。 最近吃的药寄来的generic不是原来的牌子。感觉药效弱。
huaren_2018 发表于 2023-02-18 22:15

你可以去local 小药店问老板,可能会按你要的药厂拿药。
x
xixik
同样的有效成分同样的剂量,由于不同药厂制剂工艺的差异或不同批次质控的差异都可能造成药物的生物利用率不同, 疗效自然有差异。
g
godwot
药物分子一样,纯度可能不同,剂方可能不同。我本身学药也是做药的,我建议买原研药
kekkai 发表于 2023-02-18 19:37

同一个牌子的原研药,中国产和欧美产的价格差了一倍有多,药效有没区别?
T
Temporarilycalm
我吃advil都觉得仿制药不行。。。当然你也可以说是心理作用
bran 发表于 2023-02-18 20:16

我也是!
a
abrams7g
有本纪实文学就叫《bottle of lies 》专门揭露仿制药的各种问题的。 作者很有名,得过普里兹。 anyway, 长话短说,看完这本书,就一句话,只要不是穷得揭不开锅,绝对不买仿制药。
f
fentic
绝大部分情况下都是一个地方产的,装进不同的瓶子而已
sanguo9 发表于 2023-02-18 20:01

你以为是商场里自己牌子的洗发水么

W
Waterleaf
按理应该差别不大,但是我还是尽量买好牌子的,合成以及做工流程肯定还是不一样的,也贵不了多少,偶尔需要吃个药还不吃个质量更好点的?
d
dutthu
仿制药的真相 = Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom
chatGPT 的答案:
In her book "Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom", Katherine Eban investigates the generic drug industry and exposes numerous instances of fraud, deception, and quality control issues within the industry. Through extensive research and interviews with industry insiders, she uncovers how some generic drug manufacturers have cut corners in order to maximize profits, often at the expense of patient safety.
One of Eban's main conclusions is that the generic drug industry is plagued by a lack of transparency and accountability. She argues that regulatory agencies such as the FDA have been unable to effectively monitor and regulate the industry, and that many manufacturers have taken advantage of this lack of oversight to engage in unethical practices.
Eban also highlights the challenges faced by consumers and healthcare providers in trying to navigate the complex and opaque world of generic drug manufacturing. She argues that patients and providers need more information and transparency in order to make informed decisions about the drugs they use.
Overall, Eban's book is a powerful indictment of the generic drug industry, and highlights the urgent need for reform and increased accountability in the manufacturing and regulation of these essential medicines.
在她的著作《谎言瓶:仿制药繁荣的内幕故事》中,凯瑟琳·伊班调查了仿制药产业,并揭露了该行业内部存在的许多欺诈、欺骗和质量控制问题。通过广泛的研究和对行业内部人士的访谈,她揭示了一些仿制药制造商为了最大化利润而削减成本的情况,往往以患者安全为代价。
伊班的一个主要结论是,仿制药产业受到缺乏透明度和问责制的困扰。她认为,美国食品药品监督管理局等监管机构一直无法有效监控和监管该行业,许多制造商利用这种缺乏监督的情况从事不道德的做法。
伊班还强调了消费者和医疗保健提供者在尝试驾驭仿制药制造复杂和不透明的世界时面临的挑战。她认为,患者和提供者需要更多的信息和透明度,以便在使用药物时做出明智的决定。
总的来说,伊班的书是对仿制药产业的有力控诉,并强调了在这些必需药品的制造和监管方面需要进行改革和增加问责制的紧迫性。

fridec2 发表于 2023-02-18 19:48

我记得奥巴马医疗除了保险部分的规定,还有关于大分子仿制药的相关法规规定。当初炒作废除奥巴马医疗时,了解制药行业法规的人都说不可能。因为大分子仿制药的规定美国本就落后于欧洲。好不容易借着奥巴马医疗建立了一部分,若是废了,后果很大,各药厂肯定会lobby
l
louaci
FDA对小分子仿制药要求是每样成分和品牌药相差不超过百分之一还是百分之二,成分类似基本就好了也不用做动物临床试验所以才便宜。生产也得是gmp要求,安全是肯定安全的。但即使成分相同,想想类似原料做碗五花肉,你做的和原创做的可能还是有点区别。不过大部分吃了也还好,不差钱可以考虑买品牌药。
黑妞
FDA都说了: FDA-approved generic medicines work in the same way and provide the same clinical benefit and risks as their brand-name counterpart. 去FDA网站上看看就知道了。

chiffongirlx 发表于 2023-02-18 22:32

FDA美其名曰是promote public health, reduce healthcare cost. 里面文章很多。药审要收钱。很多很多的钱。收钱的人只会鼓励更多的人申请。现在基本generics 都是中国印度制造。山高皇帝远。数据真实性。facilities inspection. 不是每家每户查到每个细节的。所以最好别生病。生病别吃generics. 尽量吃brand name.
t
tianguanghushui
美国的抗生素几乎都是国内制造的
lolilollipop 发表于 2023-02-18 23:06

如果你吃过两种对比,差异还是显著的。美国的抗生素明显能感觉纯度更高,副作用更小。国产大药厂好一些,小药厂简直一塌糊涂。不是都是中国生产的,就都一个品质。两边质检要求我看都不一样。
r
realsimplejill
化学成分一模一样是没有问题的
但制剂的工艺就是商业秘密了,无法做到一样
我只是在想,有没有什么牛逼例子,某个generic的生产商制剂水平更高,比原研药更好的?
mtwash 发表于 2023-02-18 19:24

非常对!主成份都是公开的,但formulation是研发的一大核心技术,不公开。就好像做菜光有原材料是远远不够的,还得有步骤、火候等等。
M
MMitchell
大家讨论前要明确一下仿制药在美国的定义啊。 楼上有几个说布洛芬的,单有效成分的布洛芬在美国不属于仿制药的范畴。在法律上受于monograph法案的管辖。
Monograph是上世纪70年代的时代产物。背景大致是应社会各方要求,国会和FDA必须对一些市场上横行的老药,特别是1938年FD&C法案前就在市场上的药有个交代。于是在大概20年内国会陆续通过了一堆drug-specific的法律(monograph),对一些认为比较安全的药物赋予GRAS地位和非处方待遇。几乎每一个这种药都有自己的monograph (对,说的就是一个药居然有一个专门的法律来管理)。药厂只要符合一些生产规定并许诺使用monograph规定的说明书(drug facts),就可以直接投放市场,不需要经过FDA批准。FDA对monograph药物管理的权限比较有限,所以幺蛾子比较多。
所以大家购买一些monograph管辖内的非处方药物的时候,可以考虑一些大厂生产的牌子(在monograph的世界里不存在法律意义上的brand name drug)。
c
cleveri
In general, only buy name brand products.
proserpina 发表于 2023-02-18 19:43

应该是brand name products…
缓缓歌
理论上是应该没区别的,但是实际上我可不敢信某些国家流程品质管控 一起上过班都知道,干活质量不行,摸鱼吹牛抢功的时候一套一套的。我们公司全球几十个厂,全球统一的制造工艺流程,某国的厂都能作妖胡来生产线一团糟 某国仿制药也许能有几个靠谱的,但是不靠谱的绝对不少
如果可以如果
有区别,比如benadryl,这么常见的药,brand有三种有效成分,costco generic 说是compare to Benadryl,但是只有一种有效成分。
蜻蜓蜻蜓
一般医院里拿药多数是仿制的,今天药剂师说有brand 的药,我就拿了,价格上贵了差不多一倍,我想试试看有没有更好
815 发表于 2023-02-18 19:00

有些generic drug我吃着头疼,brand name就不会
h
hiv2
绝大部分情况下都是一个地方产的,装进不同的瓶子而已
sanguo9 发表于 2023-02-18 20:01

买所谓原厂药就是智商税
m
militear
怎么才能吃到品牌药?保险一般不保啊,只让拿generic. 要医生证明generic没效才给品牌药?
怎么才能吃到品牌药?保险一般不保啊,只让拿generic. 要医生证明generic没效才给品牌药?
militear 发表于 2023-02-19 12:13

是的。所以保险有很大关系。如果保险不cover brand name, 不差钱的可以自费。
c
cydblu
有区别,比如benadryl,这么常见的药,brand有三种有效成分,costco generic 说是compare to Benadryl,但是只有一种有效成分。
如果可以如果 发表于 2023-02-19 11:25

😆
l
ljj1218
我吃过一个处方药,我记得很清楚第一次吃能明显感觉很猛的药,是原研药。第二次吃是时隔几年,我当时明显感觉效果一般般,一查已经是仿制药了。
s
sunleilucky
我吃advil都觉得仿制药不行。。。当然你也可以说是心理作用
bran 发表于 2023-02-18 20:16


虽然是心理作用,但是心理作用也是作用。毕竟有的人吃placebo都有作用,尤其是止疼药这种的
s
sunleilucky
有些generic drug我吃着头疼,brand name就不会
蜻蜓蜻蜓 发表于 2023-02-19 11:30

下回做个双盲测试,试试看看准不准
l
laifu
绝大部分情况下都是一个地方产的,装进不同的瓶子而已
sanguo9 发表于 2023-02-18 20:01

现在什么民科都能充专家啊。。。。这么胡说八道也可以。。。
h
happytimekathy
小分子药物大部分情况generic跟原研药差距不大 剂型辅料什么的会影响药物分散和代谢 但是有限 肯定是大生产商更好
大分子药就不一样了 仿制药叫biosimilar 没法做到有效成分完全相同 虽然有临床试验是通过的 但差异性还是有
8
815
非专业的人,如何判断大分子药和小分子药
t
tianguanghushui
非专业的人,如何判断大分子药和小分子药
815 发表于 2023-02-20 02:51

大分子药就是生物制药,比如蛋白质,多肽,DNA和RNA等. 小分子药物就是传统的有机化学合成的药物。再简单点,小分子药物随便常温保存和运输。大分子药,除了DNA,大多都需要低温保存,运输条件要求高。