MBB, 几大投行前台和big law,哪个更累?

d
dodojk
楼主 (北美华人网)
升到partner/MD之前,尤其是对于junior,MBB, 几大投行前台和big law,哪个更累?
t
tuer
你两个都能去吗?仰望。
公用mj1001号
相比之下,MBB最轻松,投行里gs最累,公司文化也最差,但最难进,big law也累,法律行业折磨人的senior比例最高
j
jason1
你说的这几个是装逼犯最多的行业哈哈,最不适合社恐人群
l
looklooklook
回复 1楼dodojk的帖子
能都进,有选择的时候再说吧。。。要不都是YY
c
czcat
相比之下,MBB最轻松,投行里gs最累,公司文化也最差,但最难进,big law也累,法律行业折磨人的senior比例最高
公用mj1001号 发表于 2022-12-28 08:52

同意mbb相对最轻松,但其实也挺累的。加上travel time,周中跟投行差别不太大。周末会好些。
投行里看行看组好吗。我见过很多行的都比gs忙的。总的来说volatility比较大,一周从50-90小时都是有可能的。
big law看你做啥。做m&a的肯定很累的,基本上跟投行没啥区别。据说其他的组可能会好些。
小树洞
同意mbb相对最轻松,但其实也挺累的。加上travel time,周中跟投行差别不太大。周末会好些。
投行里看行看组好吗。我见过很多行的都比gs忙的。总的来说volatility比较大,一周从50-90小时都是有可能的。
big law看你做啥。做m&a的肯定很累的,基本上跟投行没啥区别。据说其他的组可能会好些。
czcat 发表于 2022-12-28 09:08

四大审计的忙季和MBB比,算累吗?
s
sophia20
MBB 其实已经很累了,相信big law更累更惨无人道 其实应该再把外科大夫或者产科大夫加上,那种随时on call的,工作强度也相当高
t
tuer
四大审计的忙季和MBB比,算累吗?
小树洞 发表于 2022-12-28 09:15

原来真的好多人横跨三界四界的?
小树洞
原来真的好多人横跨三界四界的?
tuer 发表于 2022-12-28 09:23

我以前在四大的朋友说,很多四大的员工都是想跳到MBB或者投行的
t
tuer
我以前在四大的朋友说,很多四大的员工都是想跳到MBB或者投行的
小树洞 发表于 2022-12-28 09:25

But 法律跨过去的也多吗?maybe…
小树洞
But 法律跨过去的也多吗?maybe…
tuer 发表于 2022-12-28 09:28

四大的基本不可能跳去big law,但法学院毕业去四大还挺容易的,而且JD毕业去MBB的也不少,同时也有去投行的,不过大部分法学院学生最想去的还是big law
中华小当家
纽约大所M&A,我们半夜三点给banker打电话他们都是秒接,所以这两个估计差不多。MBB不了解。
t
tuer
四大的基本不可能跳去big law,但法学院毕业去四大还挺容易的,而且JD毕业去MBB的也不少,同时也有去投行的,不过大部分法学院学生最想去的还是big law
小树洞 发表于 2022-12-28 09:32

你这么说我倒是想起来了小红薯上有说在四大读完名校tax LLM最后还是可以进big law的。我只是好奇横跨四界是怎样一种牛人。
t
tuer
纽约大所M&A,我们半夜三点给banker打电话他们都是秒接,所以这两个估计差不多。MBB不了解。
中华小当家 发表于 2022-12-28 09:34

不在M&A但是很想去M&A,想问下为什么半夜三点打电话?
j
jason1
Day in the Life of an Investment Banker - A Good Day vs. Bad Day A Good Day Here’s what a good day would look like and I’ll assume I’m mainly working on a few marketing books which means we haven't signed on the client yet and we’re just trying to win business 8:30AM: Wake up around and scroll through ~20 emails and see that nothing requires immediate attention so snooze for another 15 minutes. Luckily, I live super close to the office (a must do if you’re a banker) so I get ready and get to the office around 9:30AM 10:00AM: I get my desk set up and answer a few emails but given that my projects are pretty quiet, I ask my analyst buddy if he’d like to go get a breakfast burrito with me 10:30AM: I hurry back to my desk for a conference call for a potential IPO that we’re working on. Luckily as an analyst, you don’t ever have to say anything so I quietly eat my burrito and take notes I can send to my team 10:30AM - 12:30PM: For the next few hours, I start working on spreading trading comps which is one of the ways to value a company for a marketing book I’m working on. Trading comps entails going through financial statements, looking up financial metrics, and copy pasting them into an excel spreadsheet. At first it was fun, but now that I’ve done this hundreds of times, it’s a little boring. 12:30PM: It’s now around lunchtime and I go out with a few analysts and associates to grab a sandwich to eat back at the desk.  1230PM - 3:00PM: I scarf the sandwich down and get back to work on the trading comps and start double checking all my numbers. I then create a nice chart to showcase all the numbers and print it out for my associate. Since I got my pages done, now I can relax a bit for my associate to check over the work. I check on my NBA fantasy team, start texting my friends to see what plans they have for the weekend, etc. 5:00PM: My associate is done checking over the page and says the numbers look good but wants a few formatting changes, so I quickly make those and send the full presentation to our team for their review. We now play the waiting game again, and this is often why bankers stay late into the night. Even though we finished our pages by 5PM, our Managing Director is out there having a life and responding ASAP to some analysts still in the office isn’t exactly his number one priority 7:00PM: I go back to surfing the web and grab dinner to bring back to the office and finally get our comments at 7PM. Our MD gives us a list of 15 changes, which isn’t too bad since they’re all pretty quick fixes. 7:00PM - 9:30PM: For the next few hours, I finish up all the changes and send it over to my associate and VP, who are both at home now. They both check over everything and give me a few more comments. I make those changes and send them back the revised version. 10:00PM: Team gets back to me saying the presentation is good to go. I send it to our printing office who creates prints and binds the books into professional looking booklets 11:30PM: I pick up the books from the printing office and drop them off at my MD’s desk and call an Uber home 12:15AM: I take a quick shower and crawl into bed, watch a show and crash Commentary: This is a relatively easy day even though I didn’t necessarily leave the office early (sometimes I would leave from 8PM-10PM on some really really good days). But the work wasn’t intense and there was some waiting around which feels a little more like free time. A Bad Day Next up is a bad day, and here, I’ll be assuming I’m on an intense live M&A deal 7:00AM: The worst start to a bad day is that you haven’t slept much the day before so let’s say I slept at 3AM and am now waking up at 7AM Not only did I not get much sleep, sometimes, my seniors or clients might be on the East Coast, which means I have to wake up early since I worked on the West Coast I wake up to 50 emails and slightly panic because 10 minutes ago, my MD asked for some changes to the presentation I sent out last night in advance of our 9AM call I email my associate that I am working on the changes on my phone and boot up my computer which is just a few feet away from my bed I work like a madman for an hour turning comments and send it to my associate and while waiting for comments, I brush my teeth and put on my suit 8:30AM: By the time I’m in the office, my associate has provided me a few comments and after making them, I send it off to the client 9:00AM: I have a short breather for about 5 minutes before jumping on a conference call with a client. Let’s say that we’re in the beginning stages of an M&A deal and the call is about valuation For the next 30 minutes, I take notes on the call and at the end, I learn that the client has finished making changes to its management model and will be sending it to us right after the call so we can build financial models based on their figures 9:30AM: Right after the call, the model is sent to us, and my associate and I each take the next 2 hours going through the model and trying to understand how everything flows (any reputable company will have an internal financial model it uses to project its next few years). Bankers use this model to build out valuation materials but these models can often be really hairy, confusing, and unorganized Usually it takes more than 2 hours to dissect a management model if it’s really complicated, but let’s just say for our purposes it takes 2 hours to briefly look through all the tabs 11:30AM: My associate and I discuss the questions we have in the model and set up a call with the client at 12PM In the meantime, my Managing Director wants the latest information about the company, so I compile the latest equity research reports of our client and send it to him 12:00PM: My associate leads the call and asks our questions about the model while I take notes and during this time, my co-worker drops off a salad at my desk since I won’t have any time to grab lunch myself 1:00PM: My associate and I run into a meeting in our MD’s office to discuss what we need to do. Our MD lays out to us the presentation materials he wants page by page, referencing old materials we can recycle and update and laying out the financial analysis that we need to do During this meeting, my associate and I are furiously taking down notes so that we don’t miss anything 2:00PM: I scarf down my salad which is the first thing I’ve eaten all day and then get working on the model first while my associate puts together a shell of the presentation Over the next 5 hours, I’m using the management’s model to create a discounted cash flow analysis which is one of the ways to value a company 7:00PM: I send over the model to my associate who starts checking over it while I work on the rest of the presentation which involves updating market overview slides and spreading trading and transaction comps. I also hop on a food order with my colleagues for dinner during this time 8:00PM: My associate gives me changes to make to the model which I refocus my attention to and work on for the next 4 hours 12:00AM: I’m finally done with the next draft of the model, which I send to my associate, who tells me to work on the other parts of the presentation and focus on the model tomorrow 4:00AM: I finish making updates to the market overview pages, finish spreading the trading and transaction comps, and send all of these materials to my associate and then head home to crash Commentary: It's certainly possible to have 1-4 weeks of many 2AM-4AM nights in a row. Usually an intense live deal also meant working 20+ hours on the weekends (though you could sleep in a bit). I'd say about 20% of my days were bad days, 20% good, and 60% in between.
t
tiffany2013
你说的这几个是装逼犯最多的行业哈哈,最不适合社恐人群
jason1 发表于 2022-12-28 09:04

正说明people skills 比technical skills 重要很多。有真金白银和社会地位的影响力。
t
tuer
回复 17楼jason1的帖子
看完瑟瑟发抖,真是铁打的身躯
中华小当家
回复 16楼tuer的帖子
因为半夜三点都还在工作。。 不是每天都这么晚,但是signing和closing之前那几周肯定是日夜赶工的。大的M&A deal都有banker,banker和lawyer忙的时候都忙,所以半夜打电话问个什么事情基本都能找到人。
p
pillowmm
big law不做M&A日子会好过些呀。没必要非死磕。多得是有几个娃,配偶也工作,孩子的成长也参与的big law partner/senior。大家也都这么过来了。
A
Appreciate2013
这是不同类型的累
首先这三个都是极其hierarchical的cultural,up or out,有严格的feeder systems,能灵活bend自己的schedule/三观来取悦clients/seniors,干2-4年后exist都不错
MBB和big law累是碰上demanding clients和toxic culture无法自拔、无法独善其身、被拖着走、感觉人生不再属于自己的无力感,两个行业的exit都是去less prestigious firms做in house
Tier one front office那看组,累是deal with legacy tech systems和friday 5pm please fix那种自己彻底丧失对off hours支配权的累,exist大多是pe/vc/hf/创业
n
newnewy
Banker,lawyer, accounting. 等级如此. case的金额摆在那,半夜三更电话秒接才是正常吧!赚得了这份钱就要挨得起这份累.
c
czcat
Day in the Life of an Investment Banker - A Good Day vs. Bad Day A Good Day Here’s what a good day would look like and I’ll assume I’m mainly working on a few marketing books which means we haven't signed on the client yet and we’re just trying to win business 8:30AM: Wake up around and scroll through ~20 emails and see that nothing requires immediate attention so snooze for another 15 minutes. Luckily, I live super close to the office (a must do if you’re a banker) so I get ready and get to the office around 9:30AM 10:00AM: I get my desk set up and answer a few emails but given that my projects are pretty quiet, I ask my analyst buddy if he’d like to go get a breakfast burrito with me 10:30AM: I hurry back to my desk for a conference call for a potential IPO that we’re working on. Luckily as an analyst, you don’t ever have to say anything so I quietly eat my burrito and take notes I can send to my team 10:30AM - 12:30PM: For the next few hours, I start working on spreading trading comps which is one of the ways to value a company for a marketing book I’m working on. Trading comps entails going through financial statements, looking up financial metrics, and copy pasting them into an excel spreadsheet. At first it was fun, but now that I’ve done this hundreds of times, it’s a little boring. 12:30PM: It’s now around lunchtime and I go out with a few analysts and associates to grab a sandwich to eat back at the desk.  1230PM - 3:00PM: I scarf the sandwich down and get back to work on the trading comps and start double checking all my numbers. I then create a nice chart to showcase all the numbers and print it out for my associate. Since I got my pages done, now I can relax a bit for my associate to check over the work. I check on my NBA fantasy team, start texting my friends to see what plans they have for the weekend, etc. 5:00PM: My associate is done checking over the page and says the numbers look good but wants a few formatting changes, so I quickly make those and send the full presentation to our team for their review. We now play the waiting game again, and this is often why bankers stay late into the night. Even though we finished our pages by 5PM, our Managing Director is out there having a life and responding ASAP to some analysts still in the office isn’t exactly his number one priority 7:00PM: I go back to surfing the web and grab dinner to bring back to the office and finally get our comments at 7PM. Our MD gives us a list of 15 changes, which isn’t too bad since they’re all pretty quick fixes. 7:00PM - 9:30PM: For the next few hours, I finish up all the changes and send it over to my associate and VP, who are both at home now. They both check over everything and give me a few more comments. I make those changes and send them back the revised version. 10:00PM: Team gets back to me saying the presentation is good to go. I send it to our printing office who creates prints and binds the books into professional looking booklets 11:30PM: I pick up the books from the printing office and drop them off at my MD’s desk and call an Uber home 12:15AM: I take a quick shower and crawl into bed, watch a show and crash Commentary: This is a relatively easy day even though I didn’t necessarily leave the office early (sometimes I would leave from 8PM-10PM on some really really good days). But the work wasn’t intense and there was some waiting around which feels a little more like free time. A Bad Day Next up is a bad day, and here, I’ll be assuming I’m on an intense live M&A deal 7:00AM: The worst start to a bad day is that you haven’t slept much the day before so let’s say I slept at 3AM and am now waking up at 7AM Not only did I not get much sleep, sometimes, my seniors or clients might be on the East Coast, which means I have to wake up early since I worked on the West Coast I wake up to 50 emails and slightly panic because 10 minutes ago, my MD asked for some changes to the presentation I sent out last night in advance of our 9AM call I email my associate that I am working on the changes on my phone and boot up my computer which is just a few feet away from my bed I work like a madman for an hour turning comments and send it to my associate and while waiting for comments, I brush my teeth and put on my suit 8:30AM: By the time I’m in the office, my associate has provided me a few comments and after making them, I send it off to the client 9:00AM: I have a short breather for about 5 minutes before jumping on a conference call with a client. Let’s say that we’re in the beginning stages of an M&A deal and the call is about valuation For the next 30 minutes, I take notes on the call and at the end, I learn that the client has finished making changes to its management model and will be sending it to us right after the call so we can build financial models based on their figures 9:30AM: Right after the call, the model is sent to us, and my associate and I each take the next 2 hours going through the model and trying to understand how everything flows (any reputable company will have an internal financial model it uses to project its next few years). Bankers use this model to build out valuation materials but these models can often be really hairy, confusing, and unorganized Usually it takes more than 2 hours to dissect a management model if it’s really complicated, but let’s just say for our purposes it takes 2 hours to briefly look through all the tabs 11:30AM: My associate and I discuss the questions we have in the model and set up a call with the client at 12PM In the meantime, my Managing Director wants the latest information about the company, so I compile the latest equity research reports of our client and send it to him 12:00PM: My associate leads the call and asks our questions about the model while I take notes and during this time, my co-worker drops off a salad at my desk since I won’t have any time to grab lunch myself 1:00PM: My associate and I run into a meeting in our MD’s office to discuss what we need to do. Our MD lays out to us the presentation materials he wants page by page, referencing old materials we can recycle and update and laying out the financial analysis that we need to do During this meeting, my associate and I are furiously taking down notes so that we don’t miss anything 2:00PM: I scarf down my salad which is the first thing I’ve eaten all day and then get working on the model first while my associate puts together a shell of the presentation Over the next 5 hours, I’m using the management’s model to create a discounted cash flow analysis which is one of the ways to value a company 7:00PM: I send over the model to my associate who starts checking over it while I work on the rest of the presentation which involves updating market overview slides and spreading trading and transaction comps. I also hop on a food order with my colleagues for dinner during this time 8:00PM: My associate gives me changes to make to the model which I refocus my attention to and work on for the next 4 hours 12:00AM: I’m finally done with the next draft of the model, which I send to my associate, who tells me to work on the other parts of the presentation and focus on the model tomorrow 4:00AM: I finish making updates to the market overview pages, finish spreading the trading and transaction comps, and send all of these materials to my associate and then head home to crash Commentary: It's certainly possible to have 1-4 weeks of many 2AM-4AM nights in a row. Usually an intense live deal also meant working 20+ hours on the weekends (though you could sleep in a bit). I'd say about 20% of my days were bad days, 20% good, and 60% in between.

jason1 发表于 2022-12-28 09:45

这是analyst的hours,asso和vp的hours会好一些。而且闲的时候没有写的那么夸张,什么还是9-12.。闲的时候我的analyst一天工作不超过5-6个小时。我自己可能一天也就回几个邮件,看两个deck。忙的时候倒是有可能像这个帖子一样,从早到晚不停地赶东西。
j
jason1
这是analyst的hours,asso和vp的hours会好一些。而且闲的时候没有写的那么夸张,什么还是9-12.。闲的时候我的analyst一天工作不超过5-6个小时。我自己可能一天也就回几个邮件,看两个deck。忙的时候倒是有可能像这个帖子一样,从早到晚不停地赶东西。
czcat 发表于 2022-12-28 10:12

忙和闲各占20%吗?
c
czcat
忙和闲各占20%吗?
jason1 发表于 2022-12-28 10:21

也差不多,但这个工作最累的是,在不是特别忙(就是那个帖子里到凌晨三四点)和特别闲的时候,平时正常的hours也在60-80小时吧。这就比大部分工作时间长很多了。
t
tuer
big law不做M&A日子会好过些呀。没必要非死磕。多得是有几个娃,配偶也工作,孩子的成长也参与的big law partner/senior。大家也都这么过来了。
pillowmm 发表于 2022-12-28 09:56

我觉得家庭牺牲还是蛮大的,得配偶非常给力,不然孩子小时候真的是没人陪。
j
jason1
我觉得家庭牺牲还是蛮大的,得配偶非常给力,不然孩子小时候真的是没人陪。
tuer 发表于 2022-12-28 10:38

我知道有不少母亲也很忙的是由保姆带大的,还有是祖父母带大的,就像伊丽莎白女王忙公务时查尔斯和安妮就被托付给了王太后
半个马和甲
投行如果你快30了就放弃吧。真心的不是一般精力可以搞得下来的。一天工作11小时很正常的。 还要早起!
还不如马工呢。虽然有时候也要工作长时间。但至少可以睡懒觉,晚点上班也可以啊。 (实话,不要拍我!)
Big law junior level 不知道。我朋友自己law firm , 基本永远就看见她不是在忙case , 就是在去某court 路上。基本约不到人。 嗯。
MBB 以前叫做空中飞人。现在后疫情,不知道
t
tuer
回复 28楼jason1的帖子
是啊,陪伴孩子虽然辛苦,但是乐趣也很多,孩子也需要父母。选择工作就是要牺牲这些,不过孩子如果养得好的话,等家长熬出头了关系是一样亲密的,苦少则6、7年,多要十几年。不过我发现身边的几个女partner或counsel都没有孩子…
x
xindereila
big law里面别做m&a,做litigation没那么累
A
Amtrak
什么是m&a?
t
tuer
什么是m&a?
Amtrak 发表于 2022-12-28 12:01

Metro North and Amtrak?
I
Ilovemax
做M&A要抢时间,turnover特别快,逼得你半夜都要起来看email,in case有assignment,你得马上response。这几个都是压力很大的工作,但是如果刚本科毕业,有得是精力做几年攒经验挺好的。
l
lazycat12345
回复 1楼dodojk的帖子
有多少人能全体验一遍。。
M
MegMegMeg


big law也分的,v20很cut throat,楼上说的M&A,gen lit好多人都是趁着年轻肉搏几年。其实v50-v80这个区间好多big firm也是market pay,呆着舒服多了,就算是M&A 因为做的不是top market大案子,相对强度小很多。每个所文化也不一样,有的v20所说好听点是sharp,难听点是toxic,见天盯着你的billable,有一两个slow months就找你谈话要求你take reduced schedule,甚至partner也会被降级成counsel。排名靠后一点的,总部不在纽约硅谷的所文化上laid back一些,没那么多幺蛾子,升不上趴也会愿意给counsel职位。
ibd还是最累吧,bulge bracket和一些小的elite boutique都是完全没自己的生活。猪队友以前9-10是日常,还经常travel,有时候飞到欧洲,机场附近酒店开几小时会又飞回来。现在的小年轻都不愿做这些事了,经常一个analyst class一半都留不住。

c
cl1989
好朋友是做M&A的,刚毕业去了Sullivan&Cromwell干了8年,现在在big tech(FANG)做in house。做了很多非常大的deal。感觉有deal的时候真的是忙到要死,每个月400个小时的强度,完全不懂她怎么支撑下来的。
吃鸡蛋
你说的这几个是装逼犯最多的行业哈哈,最不适合社恐人群
jason1 发表于 2022-12-28 09:04

装逼,危害社会的行业
s
summermiao
这是不同类型的累
首先这三个都是极其hierarchical的cultural,up or out,有严格的feeder systems,能灵活bend自己的schedule/三观来取悦clients/seniors,干2-4年后exist都不错
MBB和big law累是碰上demanding clients和toxic culture无法自拔、无法独善其身、被拖着走、感觉人生不再属于自己的无力感,两个行业的exit都是去less prestigious firms做in house
Tier one front office那看组,累是deal with legacy tech systems和friday 5pm please fix那种自己彻底丧失对off hours支配权的累,exist大多是pe/vc/hf/创业
Appreciate2013 发表于 2022-12-28 09:57

看得我难受死了,你是想说exit吗?
s
saynomore
这是不同类型的累
首先这三个都是极其hierarchical的cultural,up or out,有严格的feeder systems,能灵活bend自己的schedule/三观来取悦clients/seniors,干2-4年后exist都不错
MBB和big law累是碰上demanding clients和toxic culture无法自拔、无法独善其身、被拖着走、感觉人生不再属于自己的无力感,两个行业的exit都是去less prestigious firms做in house
Tier one front office那看组,累是deal with legacy tech systems和friday 5pm please fix那种自己彻底丧失对off hours支配权的累,exist大多是pe/vc/hf/创业
Appreciate2013 发表于 2022-12-28 09:57

什么叫做去firm做in-house…
A
Appreciate2013
看得我难受死了,你是想说exit吗?
summermiao 发表于 2022-12-28 16:14

是的,多谢指出
A
Appreciate2013
去industry的公司里做in house counsel /pm /strategy
J
Jaelynleaf
big law不做M&A日子会好过些呀。没必要非死磕。多得是有几个娃,配偶也工作,孩子的成长也参与的big law partner/senior。大家也都这么过来了。
pillowmm 发表于 2022-12-28 09:56

我已经脱离苦海 现在做软件销售 凭着大本理工科的老本
我现在觉得 转行转得太对了
big law里性价比真心不高 做到senior再拉不到单子 压力真心大 但是这个行业又特别讲究关系 装逼+暗黑 除非你是蜜柚,上面有亲戚罩着 否则就是年青时候鲜光几下 老了,等你不在乎啥美衣美车有趣的人 就觉得极端没有意思了
要我说吧 技术+艺术的工作 是最有趣回报最高 但是也是最讲究天赋的领域
所以,还是那句话 最终还是理工科硬核 谁都不求,实打实的
d
dpdpdp
我已经脱离苦海 现在做软件销售 凭着大本理工科的老本
我现在觉得 转行转得太对了
big law里性价比真心不高 做到senior再拉不到单子 压力真心大 但是这个行业又特别讲究关系 装逼+暗黑 除非你是蜜柚,上面有亲戚罩着 否则就是年青时候鲜光几下 老了,等你不在乎啥美衣美车有趣的人 就觉得极端没有意思了
要我说吧 技术+艺术的工作 是最有趣回报最高 但是也是最讲究天赋的领域
所以,还是那句话 最终还是理工科硬核 谁都不求,实打实的

Jaelynleaf 发表于 2022-12-28 16:31

你就算了吧。连联邦和州法都分不清。不知道几流法学院混出来的。
i
iloveGelato
什么叫做去firm做in-house…
saynomore 发表于 2022-12-28 16:16

他可能是想说去corporate, 大公司, 做in house? Firm应该是专门指律所
J
Jaelynleaf
你就算了吧。连联邦和州法都分不清。不知道几流法学院混出来的。
dpdpdp 发表于 2022-12-28 16:35

随便你说吧 我就是很高兴 前六的big law, lsat 177 成为历史 哈哈 新的一年新的气象
大家努力哦
J
Jaelynleaf
Metro North and Amtrak?
tuer 发表于 2022-12-28 12:38

d
dpdpdp
随便你说吧 我就是很高兴 前六的big law, lsat 177 成为历史 哈哈 新的一年新的气象
大家努力哦
Jaelynleaf 发表于 2022-12-28 16:40

您就吹吧,反正现在也就跟晓庆姐混一个圈子。
t
tuer
我已经脱离苦海 现在做软件销售 凭着大本理工科的老本
我现在觉得 转行转得太对了
big law里性价比真心不高 做到senior再拉不到单子 压力真心大 但是这个行业又特别讲究关系 装逼+暗黑 除非你是蜜柚,上面有亲戚罩着 否则就是年青时候鲜光几下 老了,等你不在乎啥美衣美车有趣的人 就觉得极端没有意思了
要我说吧 技术+艺术的工作 是最有趣回报最高 但是也是最讲究天赋的领域
所以,还是那句话 最终还是理工科硬核 谁都不求,实打实的

Jaelynleaf 发表于 2022-12-28 16:31

我觉得big law里不用拉单子吧,把老的客户维系好了就行,拉单子拉了忙不过来吧?
s
saynomore
我觉得big law里不用拉单子吧,把老的客户维系好了就行,拉单子拉了忙不过来吧?
tuer 发表于 2022-12-28 16:42

你不拉单子,就永远是给别人打工。只有拉到足够自己的客户,才算是上岸。
J
Jaelynleaf
我觉得big law里不用拉单子吧,把老的客户维系好了就行,拉单子拉了忙不过来吧?
tuer 发表于 2022-12-28 16:42

那也有大趴愿意让你维持老客户 关键有没有上面的人罩着你 时间长了,自己没有单子 靠着抱大腿过日子 很难过的 让你走,就得走
J
Jaelynleaf
您就吹吧,反正现在也就跟晓庆姐混一个圈子。
dpdpdp 发表于 2022-12-28 16:42

混哪个圈子不要紧 关键是自己的人生自己掌握 不用嗟来之食过日子
t
tuer
你不拉单子,就永远是给别人打工。只有拉到足够自己的客户,才算是上岸。
saynomore 发表于 2022-12-28 16:45

我觉得打工还蛮开心的… 不过我刚入行,可能还在傻乐当中,firm看不上我那点小客户资源
t
tuer
那也有大趴愿意让你维持老客户 关键有没有上面的人罩着你 时间长了,自己没有单子 靠着抱大腿过日子 很难过的 让你走,就得走
Jaelynleaf 发表于 2022-12-28 16:46

走就走吧…… 感觉v10愿意往下好多排名靠后点的愿意接盘吧。
J
Jaelynleaf
回楼上兔儿妹妹的话儿
纽约大学法学院有专门对JD的LLM税法专业 这也是目前最好的税法专业 不过,这个一般是专门对JD毕业的学生 换句话,你想成为专业的税法律师 得读四年,三年JD,一年LLM
税法律师和四大或者MBB投行的税务 最大不同是 税法律师解决的是不确定的税务问题 而后面的三个,是在现有框架下的衍生,是确定的 税务律师虽然职业很好 但是自己接单子很难,特别是大单子 如果没有好的导师带着 最后也难免沦为四大里起草文件之类的活儿了
我本人是不赞成这几样,相对投行会有一些好的发展,机会多一些 至于咨询之类的,不和技术捆绑,要么有政府背景 否则就是空谈,花架子而已
J
Jaelynleaf
我觉得打工还蛮开心的… 不过我刚入行,可能还在傻乐当中,firm看不上我那点小客户资源
tuer 发表于 2022-12-28 16:51

有小客户就自己攒着 慢慢自己就可以开业了 不要给人打工 任何firm都不要 除非你有人罩着
永远不要被别人控制 再大的公司集团 你的名片始终是你的公司命名 不是你自己 你离开他们 除了你最好的时间换一点儿名头和钱 啥也没有
N
Namama
MBB最轻松 Law如果做M&A, 有可能比投行更忙 投行忙是其次的,主要还是unpredictable,随时随地突然就可能忙,导致很导致影响个人生活
t
tuer
回楼上兔儿妹妹的话儿
纽约大学法学院有专门对JD的LLM税法专业 这也是目前最好的税法专业 不过,这个一般是专门对JD毕业的学生 换句话,你想成为专业的税法律师 得读四年,三年JD,一年LLM
税法律师和四大或者MBB投行的税务 最大不同是 税法律师解决的是不确定的税务问题 而后面的三个,是在现有框架下的衍生,是确定的 税务律师虽然职业很好 但是自己接单子很难,特别是大单子 如果没有好的导师带着 最后也难免沦为四大里起草文件之类的活儿了
我本人是不赞成这几样,相对投行会有一些好的发展,机会多一些 至于咨询之类的,不和技术捆绑,要么有政府背景 否则就是空谈,花架子而已

Jaelynleaf 发表于 2022-12-28 16:55

我只是读书时候tax成绩还可以,曾考虑进NYU的tax LLM 老师也会写推荐信,但吃过读书的苦我是多一页书都不想再看了,早死早超生。
现在在的组和tax打过交道更坚定了不再读书的决心… 虽然做M&A和其他transactional项目都离不开tax,同事说一定要哄好他们,礼貌相处,but 税法也实在太复杂太掉头发了昂…
s
saynomore
我觉得打工还蛮开心的… 不过我刚入行,可能还在傻乐当中,firm看不上我那点小客户资源
tuer 发表于 2022-12-28 16:51

Junior的时候确实还不用担心,但长个心眼留意一下可能的exit strateg。不管大中小firm,靠别人的单子,都做不长久。就是大所换到中小所,那些地方单子更少,过几年你rate高上去,大腿也不让抱了。
E
Eml
J
Jaelynleaf
Junior的时候确实还不用担心,但长个心眼留意一下可能的exit strateg。不管大中小firm,靠别人的单子,都做不长久。就是大所换到中小所,那些地方单子更少,过几年你rate高上去,大腿也不让抱了。
saynomore 发表于 2022-12-28 17:06

我觉得现在我做的软件销售很好 商界相对法律界流通性很大,也更亲民 法律对我而言,最珍贵的是法学院几年 把一个人看问题分析事情的思维方法完全调整 至于后面的工作,我认为简直是一种浪费 对一个人在所处的世界的发展
所以相对我个人认为能进投行 机会会更多 我曾经一个朋友在我刚来美国的时候 放弃了投行继续晋升的工作 一口气在上海买了二十几套房子 十几年前,房子还没有现在那么离谱 他30岁就早早实现了自己的人生理想 而这些契机,在咨询在律所在四大 眼界是非常有限的
t
tuer
Junior的时候确实还不用担心,但长个心眼留意一下可能的exit strateg。不管大中小firm,靠别人的单子,都做不长久。就是大所换到中小所,那些地方单子更少,过几年你rate高上去,大腿也不让抱了。
saynomore 发表于 2022-12-28 17:06

谢谢MM,作为老年Junior,我大约就是想in house了…
N
Namama
谢谢MM,作为老年Junior,我大约就是想in house了…
tuer 发表于 2022-12-28 17:17

in house 还是很爽的,虽然钱少点,但轻松啊 我看我们in house连改个nda都out source,真不知道平时都在干啥
J
Jaelynleaf
in house 还是很爽的,虽然钱少点,但轻松啊 我看我们in house连改个nda都out source,真不知道平时都在干啥

Namama 发表于 2022-12-28 17:21

in house就是买个安心 关键公司吃官司的时候 可以拉着人脉 如同民营企业啥也不懂 拉着咨询公司垫背 和CEO没有大关系 一切都是法务总监背锅 所以in house名校大所是必须的 也是特无聊的
r
redpill
我已经脱离苦海 现在做软件销售 凭着大本理工科的老本
我现在觉得 转行转得太对了
big law里性价比真心不高 做到senior再拉不到单子 压力真心大 但是这个行业又特别讲究关系 装逼+暗黑 除非你是蜜柚,上面有亲戚罩着 否则就是年青时候鲜光几下 老了,等你不在乎啥美衣美车有趣的人 就觉得极端没有意思了
要我说吧 技术+艺术的工作 是最有趣回报最高 但是也是最讲究天赋的领域
所以,还是那句话 最终还是理工科硬核 谁都不求,实打实的

Jaelynleaf 发表于 2022-12-28 16:31

技术加艺术是什么工作啊
J
Jaelynleaf
技术加艺术是什么工作啊
redpill 发表于 2022-12-28 17:34

乔布斯最初的APPLE 还有日本几大电子消费品 还有现在独树一帜的游戏公司 还有很多很多
数学+艺术的天赋 是上天给的 但是普通人也可以朝着这个方向创新发展
不久的将来 这个世界是数字化的 但是数字化的终极目标是各种感性体验 又需要艺术的结合
r
redpill
有没有说说工资的啊 比如第一年 第三年 第五年 混到MD, partner 多钱 还有exit strategy
r
redpill
乔布斯最初的APPLE 还有日本几大电子消费品 还有现在独树一帜的游戏公司 还有很多很多
数学+艺术的天赋 是上天给的 但是普通人也可以朝着这个方向创新发展
不久的将来 这个世界是数字化的 但是数字化的终极目标是各种感性体验 又需要艺术的结合
Jaelynleaf 发表于 2022-12-28 17:38

做游戏的不都是中国的什么手游吗
J
Jaelynleaf
做游戏的不都是中国的什么手游吗

redpill 发表于 2022-12-28 17:40

实事求是地说 中国现在的软件和数字化发展 除了高端的主打基础底层设计市场 其他的 已经远远超过美国 这个和中国的一直的大多数人口素质教育有关 也和美国欧洲人口素质严重恶化以及他们的少数精英教育有关
J
Jaelynleaf
下一个20-50年 技术将主打一切 老的一套社会体系政府法律设置 将完全被技术为导向的打破
半个马和甲
做游戏的不都是中国的什么手游吗

redpill 发表于 2022-12-28 17:40

Apex 和吃鸡 向你投来了王之鄙视。
J
Jaelynleaf
有没有说说工资的啊 比如第一年 第三年 第五年 混到MD, partner 多钱 还有exit strategy
redpill 发表于 2022-12-28 17:40

工资MBB和law firm都可查的 转行的策略,各人有不同 你进去做几年,自然就知道了 也许你会一直做下去呢?
t
tuer
in house 还是很爽的,虽然钱少点,但轻松啊 我看我们in house连改个nda都out source,真不知道平时都在干啥

Namama 发表于 2022-12-28 17:21

笑死,记得上学时候in house实习基本就在审NDA,我还以为NDA是in house唯一可以干的事儿呢🤣
A
Appreciate2013
笑死,记得上学时候in house实习基本就在审NDA,我还以为NDA是in house唯一可以干的事儿呢🤣
tuer 发表于 2022-12-28 18:37

哈哈,我上一份工作每次和in house legal打交道就是让他们批nda,然后他们总说在等external counsel的意见
缓缓歌
这几个比MBB最轻松吧,但是投行挣得多吧
w
wisepaper
in house就是买个安心 关键公司吃官司的时候 可以拉着人脉 如同民营企业啥也不懂 拉着咨询公司垫背 和CEO没有大关系 一切都是法务总监背锅 所以in house名校大所是必须的 也是特无聊的
Jaelynleaf 发表于 2022-12-28 17:24

无聊一点没关系,work-life balance好就行
k
keluoyi


big law也分的,v20很cut throat,楼上说的M&A,gen lit好多人都是趁着年轻肉搏几年。其实v50-v80这个区间好多big firm也是market pay,呆着舒服多了,就算是M&A 因为做的不是top market大案子,相对强度小很多。每个所文化也不一样,有的v20所说好听点是sharp,难听点是toxic,见天盯着你的billable,有一两个slow months就找你谈话要求你take reduced schedule,甚至partner也会被降级成counsel。排名靠后一点的,总部不在纽约硅谷的所文化上laid back一些,没那么多幺蛾子,升不上趴也会愿意给counsel职位。
ibd还是最累吧,bulge bracket和一些小的elite boutique都是完全没自己的生活。猪队友以前9-10是日常,还经常travel,有时候飞到欧洲,机场附近酒店开几小时会又飞回来。现在的小年轻都不愿做这些事了,经常一个analyst class一半都留不住。


MegMegMeg 发表于 2022-12-28 12:58

“有时候飞到欧洲,机场附近酒店开几小时会又飞回来。” 有点好奇,像这种开几个小时会就飞回来了,为什么不知直接zoom呢?我懂得face-to-face social interaction的重要性,也懂得很多deal不是发生在办公室,而是发生在dinner table和高尔夫球场。但是这种开几个小时会就飞走了,感觉也没时间social啊。
c
czcat
“有时候飞到欧洲,机场附近酒店开几小时会又飞回来。” 有点好奇,像这种开几个小时会就飞回来了,为什么不知直接zoom呢?我懂得face-to-face social interaction的重要性,也懂得很多deal不是发生在办公室,而是发生在dinner table和高尔夫球场。但是这种开几个小时会就飞走了,感觉也没时间social啊。
keluoyi 发表于 2022-12-28 20:55

疫情前没有zoom这个option。基本不可能会video conference。疫情后很多都是video了,但比较重要的meeting很多人还是觉得见面更personal,更以随便闲扯,看body language,etc。顺便给客户show一下自己比较dedicated专门飞过来见他们。
g
geshengliao
你说的这几个是装逼犯最多的行业哈哈,最不适合社恐人群
jason1 发表于 2022-12-28 09:04

not really
g
geshengliao
MBB 其实已经很累了,相信big law更累更惨无人道 其实应该再把外科大夫或者产科大夫加上,那种随时on call的,工作强度也相当高
sophia20 发表于 2022-12-28 09:22

是的
g
geshengliao
混哪个圈子不要紧 关键是自己的人生自己掌握 不用嗟来之食过日子

Jaelynleaf 发表于 2022-12-28 16:47

g
geshengliao
有小客户就自己攒着 慢慢自己就可以开业了 不要给人打工 任何firm都不要 除非你有人罩着
永远不要被别人控制 再大的公司集团 你的名片始终是你的公司命名 不是你自己 你离开他们 除了你最好的时间换一点儿名头和钱 啥也没有
Jaelynleaf 发表于 2022-12-28 16:59

点赞
h
happybuy
回复 67楼redpill的帖子
队友现在是MD,收入大约40到50万之间。 工作时长一周70-80小时很平常
Partner 第一年50万多一点 第二年将近一百万吧 之后几年就看个人sales水平了 做到MDP这个等级几百万没问题
Partner业绩压力比较大 卖不了项目业务不达标就出局了 出路很多啊 去传统行业做svp什么的 去四大这种继续当partner也可以
N
Namama
“有时候飞到欧洲,机场附近酒店开几小时会又飞回来。” 有点好奇,像这种开几个小时会就飞回来了,为什么不知直接zoom呢?我懂得face-to-face social interaction的重要性,也懂得很多deal不是发生在办公室,而是发生在dinner table和高尔夫球场。但是这种开几个小时会就飞走了,感觉也没时间social啊。
keluoyi 发表于 2022-12-28 20:55

从客户角度,很多关键条款还是需要面谈,需要当面拍板,电话会议/视频会议来回很多次都没啥效率。。。 作为服务业的投行/律所,肯定是客户怎么做,他们怎么做,没得选。。
而且和客户一起出差的整个过程就是social的一部分啊。。

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page0023
学法律,进入美国证券交易委员会,有前途不?
公用mj1001号
学法律,进入美国证券交易委员会,有前途不?
page0023 发表于 2022-12-29 07:31

很有前途 其实学法律很有前途,能进投行能进咨询公司也能进律所,混的好的还可以从律所直接进各大金融科技公司高层,还能从政(这边的政客基本都有jd学位) 钱多社会地位高人脉特别广
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Jaelynleaf
学法律,进入美国证券交易委员会,有前途不?
page0023 发表于 2022-12-29 07:31

那是凤毛麟角 基本没有可能
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Jaelynleaf
很有前途 其实学法律很有前途,能进投行能进咨询公司也能进律所,混的好的还可以从律所直接进各大金融科技公司高层,还能从政(这边的政客基本都有jd学位) 钱多社会地位高人脉特别广
公用mj1001号 发表于 2022-12-29 07:36

那是外沿的想象 学法律,前提是有三代关系 不管你啥法学院的 穷学生一代移民 除非想得穿,为后代打基础 否则 熬着呗 多少人误入歧途 做了十几年才缓过神来 自己不过是个平常人 再努力读书,正义感十足, 也抵不过人家家大业大的 钱是最有说服力的 其他都是扯淡+修饰 很无力感
因为法律界 没你聪明的,人家有根基 没有你努力的,人家有钱 里面都是暗黑暗黑的 黑白两道都玩得好 哪里都一样
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Jaelynleaf
能进证监会,基本一只脚就在财富面前 虽然年薪只有账面35万左右 但是那个关系人脉,证券交易规则,可是扩散性的 谁都想进 但是一般人都是没门儿的 就算是也最好的法学院最好的成绩 大多没门儿
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leevalley
回复 67楼redpill的帖子
队友现在是MD,收入大约40到50万之间。 工作时长一周70-80小时很平常
Partner 第一年50万多一点 第二年将近一百万吧 之后几年就看个人sales水平了 做到MDP这个等级几百万没问题
Partner业绩压力比较大 卖不了项目业务不达标就出局了 出路很多啊 去传统行业做svp什么的 去四大这种继续当partner也可以
happybuy 发表于 2022-12-29 00:56


是这样啊,我还以为到了partner可以躺平呢。
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happybuy

是这样啊,我还以为到了partner可以躺平呢。
leevalley 发表于 2022-12-29 11:28

想多了😂,狼多肉少,高层政治斗争一样不会少。

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blushpeony
学法律,进入美国证券交易委员会,有前途不?
page0023 发表于 2022-12-29 07:31

如果目标是SEC 看简历 Econ Phd 更多吧
A
Amtrak
回复 33楼tuer的帖子
上网查了一下,是Mergers & Acquisitions