从来没想到过孩子的父母不同意，医院和医生就能以 病患 的“best interests”为由去掉 life-support treatment的。 Parents of boy in life-support battle go to European court LONDON (AP) — The family of a comatose British boy at the center of a life-support battle said Wednesday that it has appealed to the European Court of Human Rights in a last-ditch bid to stop a hospital ending his treatment. Archie Battersbee, 12, was found unconscious at home with a ligature over his head on April 7. His parents believe he may have been taking part in an online challenge that went wrong. Doctors believe Archie is brain-stem dead and say continued life-support treatment is not in his best interests. His parents, Paul Battersbee and Hollie Dance, have fought unsuccessfully to get British courts to block the Royal London Hospital turning off the boy’s ventilator and stopping other interventions that are keeping him alive. Dance said the family’s lawyers submitted an application to the Strasbourg, France-based European human rights court hours before the hospital planned to begin withdrawing Archie’s life support on Wednesday morning. She said the family was awaiting a response from the court. “We now hope and pray that the ECHR will look favorably on the application,” she said. “We will not give up on Archie until the end.”
She also said the family was considering offers from Japan and Italy to treat Archie.
从来没想到过孩子的父母不同意，医院和医生就能以 病患 的“best interests”为由去掉 life-support treatment的。 Parents of boy in life-support battle go to European court LONDON (AP) — The family of a comatose British boy at the center of a life-support battle said Wednesday that it has appealed to the European Court of Human Rights in a last-ditch bid to stop a hospital ending his treatment. Archie Battersbee, 12, was found unconscious at home with a ligature over his head on April 7. His parents believe he may have been taking part in an online challenge that went wrong. Doctors believe Archie is brain-stem dead and say continued life-support treatment is not in his best interests. His parents, Paul Battersbee and Hollie Dance, have fought unsuccessfully to get British courts to block the Royal London Hospital turning off the boy’s ventilator and stopping other interventions that are keeping him alive. Dance said the family’s lawyers submitted an application to the Strasbourg, France-based European human rights court hours before the hospital planned to begin withdrawing Archie’s life support on Wednesday morning. She said the family was awaiting a response from the court. “We now hope and pray that the ECHR will look favorably on the application,” she said. “We will not give up on Archie until the end.”
She also said the family was considering offers from Japan and Italy to treat Archie. Wendysun12 发表于 2022-08-03 13:37
见过这孩子。医院里所有人都认为这孩子早就已经去世了。非常不喜欢他父母。之前要拍MRI他们都不同意，说不想动孩子的身体，那她怎么觉得就这样躺着下去是正常的呢？很想对他父母说“it is enough. and it is time to take some responsibility yourselves." 作为父母，他们没看好自己家里的孩子；现在孩子脑干早已死亡，却不让安息。要继续告，说要给以后的人告医院做出榜样啊 他们说有家日本的医院和意大利的医院愿意继续care这孩子，其实那些医院除了拿来做医学实验，不可能还有任何其它意义
系统提示：若遇到视频无法播放请点击下方链接 https://www.youtube.com/embed/7kf7fujM4ag?showinfo=0 To understand this, you have to go back to what [the] young brother here referred to as the house Negro and the field Negro — back during slavery. There was two kinds of slaves. There was the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes – they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good ’cause they ate his food — what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved their master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master’s house quicker than the master would. The house Negro, if the master said, “We got a good house here,” the house Negro would say, “Yeah, we got a good house here.” Whenever the master said “we,” he said “we.” That’s how you can tell a house Negro. If the master’s house caught on fire, the house Negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, “What’s the matter, boss, we sick?” We sick! He identified himself with his master more than his master identified with himself. And if you came to the house Negro and said, “Let’s run away, let’s escape, let’s separate,” the house Negro would look at you and say, “Man, you crazy. What you mean, separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?” That was that house Negro. In those days he was called a “house nigger.” And that’s what we call him today, because we’ve still got some house niggers running around here. This modern house Negro loves his master. He wants to live near him. He’ll pay three times as much as the house is worth just to live near his master, and then brag about “I’m the only Negro out here.” “I’m the only one on my job.” “I’m the only one in this school.” You’re nothing but a house Negro. And if someone comes to you right now and says, “Let’s separate,” you say the same thing that the house Negro said on the plantation. “What you mean, separate? From America? This good white man? Where you going to get a better job than you get here?” I mean, this is what you say. “I ain’t left nothing in Africa,” that’s what you say. Why, you left your mind in Africa. On that same plantation, there was the field Negro. The field Negro — those were the masses. There were always more Negroes in the field than there was Negroes in the house. The Negro in the field caught hell. He ate leftovers. In the house they ate high up on the hog. The Negro in the field didn’t get nothing but what was left of the insides of the hog. They call ’em “chitt’lin’” nowadays. In those days they called them what they were: guts. That’s what you were — a gut-eater. And some of you all still gut-eaters. The field Negro was beaten from morning to night. He lived in a shack, in a hut; He wore old, castoff clothes. He hated his master. I say he hated his master. He was intelligent. That house Negro loved his master. But that field Negro — remember, they were in the majority, and they hated the master. When the house caught on fire, he didn’t try and put it out; that field Negro prayed for a wind, for a breeze. When the master got sick, the field Negro prayed that he’d die. If someone come [sic] to the field Negro and said, “Let’s separate, let’s run,” he didn’t say “Where we going?” He’d say, “Any place is better than here.” You’ve got field Negroes in America today. I’m a field Negro. The masses are the field Negroes. When they see this man’s house on fire, you don’t hear these little Negroes talking about “our government is in trouble.” They say, “The government is in trouble.” Imagine a Negro: “Our government”! I even heard one say “our astronauts.” They won’t even let him near the plant — and “our astronauts”! “Our Navy” — that’s a Negro that’s out of his mind. That’s a Negro that’s out of his mind. Just as the slavemaster of that day used Tom, the house Negro, to keep the field Negroes in check, the same old slavemaster today has Negroes who are nothing but modern Uncle Toms, 20th century Uncle Toms, to keep you and me in check, keep us under control, keep us passive and peaceful and nonviolent. That’s Tom making you nonviolent. It’s like when you go to the dentist, and the man’s going to take your tooth. You’re going to fight him when he starts pulling. So he squirts some stuff in your jaw called novocaine, to make you think they’re not doing anything to you. So you sit there and ’cause you’ve got all of that novocaine in your jaw, you suffer peacefully. Blood running all down your jaw, and you don’t know what’s happening. ’Cause someone has taught you to suffer — peacefully.
见过这孩子。医院里所有人都认为这孩子早就已经去世了。非常不喜欢他父母。之前要拍MRI他们都不同意，说不想动孩子的身体，那她怎么觉得就这样躺着下去是正常的呢？很想对他父母说“it is enough. and it is time to take some responsibility yourselves." 作为父母，他们没看好自己家里的孩子；现在孩子脑干早已死亡，却不让安息。要继续告，说要给以后的人告医院做出榜样啊 他们说有家日本的医院和意大利的医院愿意继续care这孩子，其实那些医院除了拿来做医学实验，不可能还有任何其它意义 striped08 发表于 2022-08-03 17:10
忍不住问问这孩子到底当初干了什么，怎么会伤到脑干还伤的这么严重呢？ 新闻报道口径都一致，语焉不详就说啊ligature over his head，我怎么也想不通怎么会伤到脑干
Parents of boy in life-support battle go to European court
LONDON (AP) — The family of a comatose British boy at the center of a life-support battle said Wednesday that it has appealed to the European Court of Human Rights in a last-ditch bid to stop a hospital ending his treatment.
Archie Battersbee, 12, was found unconscious at home with a ligature over his head on April 7. His parents believe he may have been taking part in an online challenge that went wrong.
Doctors believe Archie is brain-stem dead and say continued life-support treatment is not in his best interests.
His parents, Paul Battersbee and Hollie Dance, have fought unsuccessfully to get British courts to block the Royal London Hospital turning off the boy’s ventilator and stopping other interventions that are keeping him alive.
Dance said the family’s lawyers submitted an application to the Strasbourg, France-based European human rights court hours before the hospital planned to begin withdrawing Archie’s life support on Wednesday morning.
She said the family was awaiting a response from the court.
“We now hope and pray that the ECHR will look favorably on the application,” she said. “We will not give up on Archie until the end.”
She also said the family was considering offers from Japan and Italy to treat Archie.
英国是全民医疗吧，应该是纳税人出
美国也有保险公司卡着
在很多国家，脑死亡就是基本上定义死亡了。医院没有义务为一个死人花钱治病。
花钱的也不是医院啊。 难道英国是全民医保，医院有保险公司的智能了
那就直说没钱给你维持生命了，不要说什么”not in his best interest “…
美国出一周的费用，之后靠自己买的保险或自己的钱。总之是受罪。
英国的问题是英美传统， 利用专业医生意见故意杀人。 比如alfie evans就是被这些医生杀死的。 脑死亡都说去掉支持五分钟内死亡 ，因为窒息。 但是天杀的医院依靠法律判决把人家孩子活活饿死， 饿了好几天。 父母不让见。。 这他妈的就是西方民主自由肆意杀人的结果。
父母权在医疗系统面前啥也不是， 政府帮助医院杀人， 英美一直这样。 这种国家就是人类的敌人， 。。。
病人什么interests，对他有什么好处，维持生命是为了父母，不是病人自身
我知道的一个实例是，医院有权拔管，但是病人家属可以自己接走自费去long term facility 自费继续life supporting.
这个合理。父母有什么权利花别人的钱去就救脑死亡的孩子，还有好多看不起吧，上不起学，吃不起饭的人呢。 你花自己的钱爱咋咋地
美国也有这类案子，但美国病人的life support和支付能力无关，这和急诊一样属于不问支付能力，先行挽救生命的范围。
但大部分州规定：医院的ethic委员会可以自行决定放弃治疗切断life support， 但需要提前10天通知病人家属。
如果病人家属在规定期限内不同意，可以要求通过法律程序解决，或者在规定的期限内寻找另外的医疗机构接受病人，但这种情况通常不会有第二家机构接受。
一般来说法官也会支持医院的决定，除非家属能够提供专业评审，病人有合理的希望能够恢复知觉。那么这家医院就必须不问支付能力继续维持这lifesupport。
比如你受伤被医院计划抢走你的器官。 你父母不同意， 这时候你不省人事。。 而你能不能醒来医生可能是可以决定的。。 你父母可能都不能去看你。 政府可以拿出数据库来说你清醒的时候选择了同意器官移植， 都在DMV的数据库里面。 合理合法杀死你。 而数据库里的东西还不是政府一句话就改了。
能打这种官司的都内部有人。 可以真正的查出谁最后改了数据， 谁最后access数据， 可能医院根本就从来没有征询过政府， 就决定杀你移植了。 要打这种官司， 证据得拿到， 律师得强， 跟法官有关系。。
其实多想想这些事情你就明白， 你还活着是因为你运气好而已。
看到的一个案子就是父母不同意移植， 医院要摘几个器官 政府给的数据是昏迷的孩子三次决定车祸后器官移植， 最后判决父母输了官司。
脑死亡就是死亡，美国一样可以拔管
脑死亡没有可能恢复任何功能了 人都死了，怎么可能还会活过来
都脑死亡了还有什么interest? 连作行尸走肉都不行
想啥呢？ 很大可能你没有死！
脑死亡是器官移植兴起后， 哈佛医学院搞出来的， 就是医生可以通过脑电波的图来判断病人是不是脑死亡， 纯粹 personal opinion.
脑死亡拔管， 真的脑死亡会几分钟内窒息死。 但是很多父母救下来的活了。 alfie evans被判决后， 活活饿死。 。。
为啥不十分钟没死透的赶快拉回来抢救？！ 医院的目的是器官移植。 而一个人不按时死那就是对医生的最大否定， 医生恨不得提刀剁了你。。 所以医生宣布你脑死亡， 你可能百分之百死了。。 就算你能跑都不可能逃出来。。。除非没有人看着你。。
新泽西的例子， 女性，醉了，被拉到医院 她醒来看到自己要被器官移植的paperwork， 看周围没有人， 她跑了。。。。。。。。。她跑了。。。。
这事情最后报导了， 是她死后几年才报道的。 报导说得是她生活习惯不好，吸毒， 乱交， homeless, 把这个女的人格全方面否定。。 最后还是吸毒过量死了。。 何尝不是她想打官司被医院雇人害死了？！
父母权在医疗系统面前啥也不是， 政府帮助医院杀人， 英美一直这样。 这种国家就是人类的敌人
Anywhere better than these counties?
从逻辑上说，这个概念是有瑕疵的。
从事实上来说，加州医疗事故受害者Jahi McMatch在被医院宣布脑死亡并签发死亡证明后又在新泽西州活了四年，然后才因为手术大出血去世。
我们华人上的“地主婆”，她儿子ERIC不也多次被医生宣布没救，还是好好一直活着吗？
那这个孩子就算逃到新泽西也没有逃过医院的黑手。。。
还是被这群畜生们活活杀了。
她是打了官司才从加州放到新泽西的吧。 就是从来都没有离开医疗系统。。。
最后还是被杀死。
他们说有家日本的医院和意大利的医院愿意继续care这孩子，其实那些医院除了拿来做医学实验，不可能还有任何其它意义
又活了四年指什么？on life support for 4 more years？ 有与人交流的能力吗？有享受食物的能力吗？还是就是躺了四年什么感觉都没有，就是心脏还在跳？
你应该好好看看黑人演讲， 学习一下做人。
系统提示：若遇到视频无法播放请点击下方链接
https://www.youtube.com/embed/7kf7fujM4ag?showinfo=0
To understand this, you have to go back to what [the] young brother here referred to as the house Negro and the field Negro — back during slavery. There was two kinds of slaves. There was the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes – they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good ’cause they ate his food — what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved their master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master’s house quicker than the master would. The house Negro, if the master said, “We got a good house here,” the house Negro would say, “Yeah, we got a good house here.” Whenever the master said “we,” he said “we.” That’s how you can tell a house Negro. If the master’s house caught on fire, the house Negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, “What’s the matter, boss, we sick?” We sick! He identified himself with his master more than his master identified with himself. And if you came to the house Negro and said, “Let’s run away, let’s escape, let’s separate,” the house Negro would look at you and say, “Man, you crazy. What you mean, separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?” That was that house Negro. In those days he was called a “house nigger.” And that’s what we call him today, because we’ve still got some house niggers running around here.
This modern house Negro loves his master. He wants to live near him. He’ll pay three times as much as the house is worth just to live near his master, and then brag about “I’m the only Negro out here.” “I’m the only one on my job.” “I’m the only one in this school.” You’re nothing but a house Negro. And if someone comes to you right now and says, “Let’s separate,” you say the same thing that the house Negro said on the plantation. “What you mean, separate? From America? This good white man? Where you going to get a better job than you get here?” I mean, this is what you say. “I ain’t left nothing in Africa,” that’s what you say. Why, you left your mind in Africa. On that same plantation, there was the field Negro. The field Negro — those were the masses. There were always more Negroes in the field than there was Negroes in the house. The Negro in the field caught hell. He ate leftovers. In the house they ate high up on the hog. The Negro in the field didn’t get nothing but what was left of the insides of the hog. They call ’em “chitt’lin’” nowadays. In those days they called them what they were: guts. That’s what you were — a gut-eater. And some of you all still gut-eaters. The field Negro was beaten from morning to night. He lived in a shack, in a hut; He wore old, castoff clothes. He hated his master. I say he hated his master. He was intelligent. That house Negro loved his master. But that field Negro — remember, they were in the majority, and they hated the master. When the house caught on fire, he didn’t try and put it out; that field Negro prayed for a wind, for a breeze. When the master got sick, the field Negro prayed that he’d die. If someone come [sic] to the field Negro and said, “Let’s separate, let’s run,” he didn’t say “Where we going?” He’d say, “Any place is better than here.” You’ve got field Negroes in America today. I’m a field Negro. The masses are the field Negroes. When they see this man’s house on fire, you don’t hear these little Negroes talking about “our government is in trouble.” They say, “The government is in trouble.” Imagine a Negro: “Our government”! I even heard one say “our astronauts.” They won’t even let him near the plant — and “our astronauts”! “Our Navy” — that’s a Negro that’s out of his mind. That’s a Negro that’s out of his mind. Just as the slavemaster of that day used Tom, the house Negro, to keep the field Negroes in check, the same old slavemaster today has Negroes who are nothing but modern Uncle Toms, 20th century Uncle Toms, to keep you and me in check, keep us under control, keep us passive and peaceful and nonviolent. That’s Tom making you nonviolent. It’s like when you go to the dentist, and the man’s going to take your tooth. You’re going to fight him when he starts pulling. So he squirts some stuff in your jaw called novocaine, to make you think they’re not doing anything to you. So you sit there and ’cause you’ve got all of that novocaine in your jaw, you suffer peacefully. Blood running all down your jaw, and you don’t know what’s happening. ’Cause someone has taught you to suffer — peacefully.
能不能不要什么都往歧视上扯
我也想知道舒马赫的情况。 似乎他太太一直以保护隐私为由，不透露任何关于舒马赫的情况。只有一两个舒马赫很亲近的朋友被允许去探望他。 请了一个医疗团队在瑞士还是哪里，家里做了一间病房，专门照顾舒马赫。花了不计其数的钱，好多个亿，一直延续他的生命。但是舒马赫的车迷似乎很有看法，具体情况不清楚。。。。
舒马赫七八年前就醒了吧。。。 这事情大概疫情前爆出来的。
Brain death is death
应该是保险不批了，继续下去就是医院自己花钱了
忍不住问问这孩子到底当初干了什么，怎么会伤到脑干还伤的这么严重呢？ 新闻报道口径都一致，语焉不详就说啊ligature over his head，我怎么也想不通怎么会伤到脑干
这家父母就是典型英国红脖，我看他们打官司的也是基督教会出钱
估计接下来的治疗费用要自己出吧。纳税人一直出的话还打啥官司。
"in his best interests." 死亡和什么事情相比能对病人有better interest呢？人死了难道不是最低的benefit.
是啊，可以说对社会对纳税人甚至等器官捐赠的人的best interest
多少例子被医生宣布脑死亡的又恢复了。 生命力有时候难以用医学解释。尤其是年轻人
除非是被病痛折磨得受不了要安乐死的，有口气撑着总比彻底死了要多benefit. 人彻底死了就什么都没了
是啊，心跳论怎么在这里不用了？
RE
其实就定义这个情况自付医疗费就行
医院不想再出钱出人了可以理解，但说放弃治疗对患者是best interest有点虚伪了。哪怕说对患者家人是Best interest都还勉强可以。
被恢复的应该就是脑死亡误诊，没有真正脑死亡。如果真是脑死亡，是恢复不过来的。真正脑死亡大脑已经没有血液供应了，就如同人死了好几天了，是不会活过来的。
为什么是难道，英国本来就是全民医保。只是系统被新冠整得很惨。
如果反对， 拔管这种事情就应该跟家属协调， 提前一周告诉处理时间， 那一天下午二点前必须离开。 自己不拔请警察拔就行了。 家属有备用设备可以自己请人接上， 有钱买医院设备连人带设备都推走， 没钱闹的，警察来拔了扔街上市政府处理。
英美的问题是必须让医生来做一切。。 医生要确认人死了才能离开。。 这个就是故意杀人嘛。 。
相比活着每分钟都在受折磨，离开确实更好。
我家里有亲人经历过这个。确实是生不如死。
都已经脑死亡了，还插管吗？真的很
脑死亡是拔管之后心跳呼吸就会停，马上就死。植物人可以有自主呼吸心跳，断了生命维持系统之后会饿死。