IRS也不傻，叫你必须本金和增值的部分要proportional拿出来。 Penalty is 10% 加income tax on the earning, 再加上earning算到那一年的gross income 里可能会trigger higher rate for the year. What happens if I take a distribution from my designated Roth account before the end of the 5-taxable-year period? If you take a distribution from your designated Roth account before the end of the 5-taxable-year period, it is a nonqualified distribution. You must include the earnings portion of the nonqualified distribution in gross income. However, the basis (or contributions) portion of the nonqualified distribution is not included in gross income. The basis portion of the distribution is determined by multiplying the amount of the nonqualified distribution by the ratio of designated Roth contributions to the total designated Roth account balance. For example, if a nonqualified distribution of $5,000 is made from your designated Roth account when the account consists of $9,400 of designated Roth contributions and $600 of earnings, the distribution consists of $4,700 of designated Roth contributions (that are not includible in your gross income) and $300 of earnings (that are includible in your gross income). See Q&As regarding Rollovers of Designated Roth Contributions, for additional rules for rolling over both qualified and nonqualified distributions from designated Roth accounts.
IRS也不傻，叫你必须本金和增值的部分要proportional拿出来。 Penalty is 10% 加income tax on the earning, 再加上earning算到那一年的gross income 里可能会trigger higher rate for the year. What happens if I take a distribution from my designated Roth account before the end of the 5-taxable-year period? If you take a distribution from your designated Roth account before the end of the 5-taxable-year period, it is a nonqualified distribution. You must include the earnings portion of the nonqualified distribution in gross income. However, the basis (or contributions) portion of the nonqualified distribution is not included in gross income. The basis portion of the distribution is determined by multiplying the amount of the nonqualified distribution by the ratio of designated Roth contributions to the total designated Roth account balance. For example, if a nonqualified distribution of $5,000 is made from your designated Roth account when the account consists of $9,400 of designated Roth contributions and $600 of earnings, the distribution consists of $4,700 of designated Roth contributions (that are not includible in your gross income) and $300 of earnings (that are includible in your gross income). See Q&As regarding Rollovers of Designated Roth Contributions, for additional rules for rolling over both qualified and nonqualified distributions from designated Roth accounts. thenewgirl 发表于 2021-12-29 15:49
this is the so called Five-Year Rule ("5-taxable-year period"). RITH IRA 的主要限制就是这个５年之内有 penalty。过了５年就没问题了。
There is also age limit requirements which I didn''t copy over. thenewgirl 发表于 2021-12-29 16:54
交大学学费没有penalty https://www.schwab.com/ira/roth-ira/withdrawal-rules With a Roth IRA, contributions are not tax-deductible, but earnings can grow tax-free, and qualified withdrawals are tax- and penalty-free. Roth IRA withdrawal and penalty rules vary depending on your age and how long you''ve had the account and other factors. Before making a Roth IRA withdrawal, keep in mind the following guidelines, to avoid a potential 10% early withdrawal penalty: Withdrawals must be taken after age 59½. Withdrawals must be taken after a five-year holding period. There are exceptions to the early withdrawal penalty, such as a first-time home purchase, college expenses, and birth or adoption expenses.
first of all, 上大学的时间是可以预见的，可以计划好 and I don''''t think you get the definition right... https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fiveyearrule.asp IRS website: " after the 5-year period beginning with the first tax year for which a contribution was made to a Roth IRA set up for your benefit."
交大学学费没有penalty https://www.schwab.com/ira/roth-ira/withdrawal-rules With a Roth IRA, contributions are not tax-deductible, but earnings can grow tax-free, and qualified withdrawals are tax- and penalty-free. Roth IRA withdrawal and penalty rules vary depending on your age and how long you''ve had the account and other factors. Before making a Roth IRA withdrawal, keep in mind the following guidelines, to avoid a potential 10% early withdrawal penalty: Withdrawals must be taken after age 59½. Withdrawals must be taken after a five-year holding period. There are exceptions to the early withdrawal penalty, such as a first-time home purchase, college expenses, and birth or adoption expenses.
you can withdraw only from contribution to avoid income tax. https://www.irs.gov/publications/p590b#en_US_2020_publink1000230955 Ordering Rules for Distributions If you receive a distribution from your Roth IRA that isn''''t a qualified distribution, part of it may be taxable. There is a set order in which contributions (including conversion contributions and rollover contributions from qualified retirement plans) and earnings are considered to be distributed from your Roth IRA. For these purposes, disregard the withdrawal of excess contributions and the earnings on them (discussed under What if You Contribute Too Much? in chapter 2 of Pub. 590-A). Order the distributions as follows. 1.Regular contributions. 2.Conversion and rollover contributions, on a first-in, first-out basis (generally, total conversions and rollovers from the earliest year first). See Aggregation (grouping and adding) rules, later. Take these conversion and rollover contributions into account as follows. a. Taxable portion (the amount required to be included in gross income because of the conversion or rollover) first. b. Nontaxable portion. 3.Earnings on contributions.
mega backdoor今年差点挂了，将来随时挂。而且一些人mega backdoor没那么多，取决于你pre tax 401k contribution是多少，401k total contribution limit$58k for 2021,倘若pre tax contribution部分有$50k，mega部分只有8k可投了。 另外一般能早投就不晚投，有余钱的，可以投啊
Because a backdoor Roth IRA is categorized as a conversion—not a contribution—you cannot access any of the funds held in the converted Roth IRA without penalty for the first five years after conversion. If you do a backdoor Roth IRA conversion every year, you must wait five years to tap each portion you convert.Dec 22, 2021 https://www.forbes.com › retirement What Is A Backdoor Roth IRA? – Forbes Advisor
错！ https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/does-529-affect-financial-aid/ While investing in a 529 plan will generally affect the child’s eligibility for need-based aid, the overall impact is generally minimal. To determine how the 529 will impact the beneficiary’s financial aid status, consider who owns the 529 account and how the money is distributed. The parents of a dependent student own a 529 account. In this case, the 529 plan would fall under the parents’ assets on the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA)—the form that determines the amount of federal aid the student qualifies for. A parent’s assets are calculated at the most favorable rate. Meaning, they are expected to contribute a smaller portion of their assets, and the child would be eligible for more financial aid. A student owns a 529 account. The 529 plan would be counted under the student’s assets. Students are expected to contribute a larger portion of their assets to their own education, and would thus be eligible for less financial aid. A grandparent, family friend or other relative owns a 529 account.The 529 plan would not be counted as an asset. However, the student would need to report the 529 withdrawals as unearned income on the FAFSA, which is calculated at the least favorable rate. In this example, the student’s eligibility for financial aid would be negatively affected the most.
you can withdraw only from contribution to avoid income tax. https://www.irs.gov/publications/p590b#en_US_2020_publink1000230955 Ordering Rules for Distributions If you receive a distribution from your Roth IRA that isn''''t a qualified distribution, part of it may be taxable. There is a set order in which contributions (including conversion contributions and rollover contributions from qualified retirement plans) and earnings are considered to be distributed from your Roth IRA. For these purposes, disregard the withdrawal of excess contributions and the earnings on them (discussed under What if You Contribute Too Much? in chapter 2 of Pub. 590-A). Order the distributions as follows. 1.Regular contributions. 2.Conversion and rollover contributions, on a first-in, first-out basis (generally, total conversions and rollovers from the earliest year first). See Aggregation (grouping and adding) rules, later. Take these conversion and rollover contributions into account as follows. a. Taxable portion (the amount required to be included in gross income because of the conversion or rollover) first. b. Nontaxable portion. 3.Earnings on contributions.
529 和 after tax 401k mega backdoor to Roth IRA 比差远了吧，后者每年一个可以存三四万， 本金可以随时取出，增值部分59岁后取出完全无税。 相比起来529 不光只能用于大学学费不说，限制太严，而且存进去的本金不能随便取出来，太不灵活了 tieshouzc 发表于 2021-12-29 01:40
401K vs. IRA，traditional vs. ROTH，里面的门道很多，是很confusing。 我今年为了搭上 mega backdoor 最后一班车，好好研究了一下，最后的结论是越早把钱转进 ROTH IRA 越好。ROTH 401K 也是可以转 ROTH IRA 的，换工作的时候会是个机会。
roth ira可以backdoor 不用符合条件。
真的吗？ 为啥都说mega backdoor ira当学费？59了那岂不是40才要娃？大部分人都是30多吧
本金隨時可以拿出來，夫妻倆二十年就二十幾萬本金了。
存吧，这个收入拿不到啥助学金的
帐算得对。那孩子学费呢？这个收入能有助学金吗？
确实是。我家就是开的和州不相关的529. 而且存529要早，要不没啥意义。我家2岁开始存，一年放1万五，然后只打算放四到六年就不放了。
这个要公司支持吧？很多公司提供吗？
mega back door roth ira 完全无收入限制啊，为啥老是盯着普通的roth ira？ 有了backdoor，收入限制不就是个笑话吗？
很多公司都提供after tax 401k contribution 对于少数不支持的公司就只能用每人一年投6000到traditional ira然后再backdoor到roth ira了 不过一人6000刀，夫妻两人可以一年存12000刀，20年就是24万本金，虽比after tax 401k 的mega backdoor roth少很多，但也还行了
agreed.
您最近才拿到卡吧。。。那确实得少生
花你的钱养娃了？？？
Roth 401k是after tax 401k吗？
看在哪儿住。大农村里房价低，living cost低，这个收入存满这些不难。529我们州每年每人有20% tax benefit up to $1000，所以这部分存了，一共存一万。
我公司不提供after tax 401, 我老公公司提供，但是上限是一个random的数额，大几千的样子，远不到四万
这个不是每个公司都提供的啊
529有它独特的好处：一是有的州可以免州税，纽约是一年1万以内可抵州税，我家每年省1000州税。二是可以change beneficiary unlimited times. 可以作为家族流传永远无税的教育基金。
因为不是每个公司都有backdoor啊
That's regular Roth. 前面那位说的是backdoor，不一样的。
Mega backdoor 不仅要可以after tax contribution,而且还要可以in service roll out。所以实际上可以做mega backdoor的公司根本不多
任何投资有风险，各种pension出事的，我更倾向自己决定投资内容，好过盲目把钱交出去。
What happens if I take a distribution from my designated Roth account before the end of the 5-taxable-year period? If you take a distribution from your designated Roth account before the end of the 5-taxable-year period, it is a nonqualified distribution. You must include the earnings portion of the nonqualified distribution in gross income. However, the basis (or contributions) portion of the nonqualified distribution is not included in gross income. The basis portion of the distribution is determined by multiplying the amount of the nonqualified distribution by the ratio of designated Roth contributions to the total designated Roth account balance. For example, if a nonqualified distribution of $5,000 is made from your designated Roth account when the account consists of $9,400 of designated Roth contributions and $600 of earnings, the distribution consists of $4,700 of designated Roth contributions (that are not includible in your gross income) and $300 of earnings (that are includible in your gross income). See Q&As regarding Rollovers of Designated Roth Contributions, for additional rules for rolling over both qualified and nonqualified distributions from designated Roth accounts.
https://www.investopedia.com/roth-ira-withdrawal-rules-4769951
Contribution 和 增值部分可以分开取，不需要一起 不了解的可以去看看钱姐的视频 https://youtu.be/1Y4SOlgyqkc
请看irs网站。。。
ROTH IRA 可以付学费. 而且本来本金就可以取出来. 申请aid算资产时Roth IRA 不算, 比529合算.
不正确。 529 算小孩的钱。 会算20%。
Because they probably had first time home buyer exception or it''s a loan
私立学校和联邦的计算公式不一样。上网有很多计算的地方。
就是要多交税。
20-30 万不能用ROTH IRA 交学费。用 IBond交学费 要交税。
this is the so called Five-Year Rule ("5-taxable-year period"). RITH IRA 的主要限制就是这个５年之内有 penalty。过了５年就没问题了。
华人上应该觉得赚二三十万算不上穿鞋的，算光脚的。。
已有房升级到更贵的房
There is also age limit requirements which I didn't copy over.
或者401k 借钱 或者 somehow convinced IRS it''s their first house 下一步我该问cpa的名字了吧
哦 还想到一个，这几年因为covid也增加了withdraw exception
交大学学费没有penalty
https://www.schwab.com/ira/roth-ira/withdrawal-rules
With a Roth IRA, contributions are not tax-deductible, but earnings can grow tax-free, and qualified withdrawals are tax- and penalty-free. Roth IRA withdrawal and penalty rules vary depending on your age and how long you''ve had the account and other factors. Before making a Roth IRA withdrawal, keep in mind the following guidelines, to avoid a potential 10% early withdrawal penalty: Withdrawals must be taken after age 59½. Withdrawals must be taken after a five-year holding period. There are exceptions to the early withdrawal penalty, such as a first-time home purchase, college expenses, and birth or adoption expenses.
我记得每次back door时重置一下这个五年
first of all, 上大学的时间是可以预见的，可以计划好 and I don''''t think you get the definition right...
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fiveyearrule.asp
IRS website: " after the 5-year period beginning with the first tax year for which a contribution was made to a Roth IRA set up for your benefit."
Still have to pay tax...
irs的，大家自己看吧。左边有topic list. 前面贴的也不是不对，但是不全。这规矩一环套一环的，或者罚钱或者要怎么付税，你得整个看完。 不管大家怎么存，别听卖保险的忽悠就行。
you can withdraw only from contribution to avoid income tax.
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p590b#en_US_2020_publink1000230955
Ordering Rules for Distributions If you receive a distribution from your Roth IRA that isn''''t a qualified distribution, part of it may be taxable. There is a set order in which contributions (including conversion contributions and rollover contributions from qualified retirement plans) and earnings are considered to be distributed from your Roth IRA. For these purposes, disregard the withdrawal of excess contributions and the earnings on them (discussed under What if You Contribute Too Much? in chapter 2 of Pub. 590-A). Order the distributions as follows. 1.Regular contributions. 2.Conversion and rollover contributions, on a first-in, first-out basis (generally, total conversions and rollovers from the earliest year first). See Aggregation (grouping and adding) rules, later. Take these conversion and rollover contributions into account as follows. a. Taxable portion (the amount required to be included in gross income because of the conversion or rollover) first. b. Nontaxable portion. 3.Earnings on contributions.
光脚的不这么给人洗脑 又怎么能让人焦虑起来呢
能详细说一下这是什么意思吗
为了两个里面有一个学霸，增加学霸可能性，生的越多可能性越大
没错，钱不经花啊
生的越多也增加获得学渣的可能性
mega backdoor今年差点挂了，将来随时挂。而且一些人mega backdoor没那么多，取决于你pre tax 401k contribution是多少，401k total contribution limit$58k for 2021,倘若pre tax contribution部分有$50k，mega部分只有8k可投了。
另外一般能早投就不晚投，有余钱的，可以投啊
因为人家regular backdoor ira 和mega backdoor ira都存啊
这个说的对。但收入2、30万的家庭，如果这一串账户都投满了，根本没余钱投529了
roth ira可以用来交学费的。
有钱热出来晒晒家底吧
对 我就是这个意思
其实529还不错的 比大部分人自己炒股强多了 比我家猪头炒中钙股强一万倍
但是问题是收入2-30万的家庭 401k/hsa/espp/backdoor Roth/mega backdoor Roth 都存满了
根本就没有钱存529
很多房价高一点的地方都不用存mega backdoor Roth 光是存满401k/hsa/espp/backdoor Roth就月光了
所以这就是我说的 很多华人家庭可能要到税前40w+才能比较轻松的存529
我也不是很确定，我印象里看过一个文章讲这个，但是貌似也不是太准确，这个5年rules搞得挺复杂，我也没精力仔细研读。这里讲的是每次convert的都要等5年，具体每年转的部分取的时候怎么来区分，我也不太清楚
Because a backdoor Roth IRA is categorized as a conversion—not a contribution—you cannot access any of the funds held in the converted Roth IRA without penalty for the first five years after conversion. If you do a backdoor Roth IRA conversion every year, you must wait five years to tap each portion you convert.Dec 22, 2021 https://www.forbes.com › retirement What Is A Backdoor Roth IRA? – Forbes Advisor
问题是很多2-30万收入的华人存不了HSA，没有ESPP和mega，也不quailify traditional roth，还面临退休收入tax braket可能高过现在，所以backdoor roth也不一定make sense...
这是IUL老鼠会的人告诉你的吧？ 529是父母（或祖父母）的资产。 UTMA/UGMA才是算小孩的资产，不知道UTMA/UGMA的自己去搜一下
小孩是beneficiary，不是owner，不算小孩的
错！
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/does-529-affect-financial-aid/
While investing in a 529 plan will generally affect the child’s eligibility for need-based aid, the overall impact is generally minimal. To determine how the 529 will impact the beneficiary’s financial aid status, consider who owns the 529 account and how the money is distributed. The parents of a dependent student own a 529 account. In this case, the 529 plan would fall under the parents’ assets on the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA)—the form that determines the amount of federal aid the student qualifies for. A parent’s assets are calculated at the most favorable rate. Meaning, they are expected to contribute a smaller portion of their assets, and the child would be eligible for more financial aid. A student owns a 529 account. The 529 plan would be counted under the student’s assets. Students are expected to contribute a larger portion of their assets to their own education, and would thus be eligible for less financial aid. A grandparent, family friend or other relative owns a 529 account.The 529 plan would not be counted as an asset. However, the student would need to report the 529 withdrawals as unearned income on the FAFSA, which is calculated at the least favorable rate. In this example, the student’s eligibility for financial aid would be negatively affected the most.
https://youtu.be/GVpRPZLMQ0g
不用看个人发的视频，个别人的理解不一定对。直接去IRS网站查，最权威。我看过是本金和收益要一起取出来的
你说的对，我又看了一遍，之前的看错了，roth ira是不用penalty也不用多付税。但是要withdraw earning那块就要算gross income了，有backdoor的家庭倒是不用care.
普通人没backdoor门路的roth ira/ira只能存6千,可以当529之后付学费的备胎。
这个刚看完，是roth 401k的话要contribution and earning proportionally 一起取，roth ira不用
同这个 父母帮忙存的529算5.64% 自己存的529 (比如存钱到40岁从新上学）算20% morningstar 有个文写的挺清楚的，就是找不到link了
很多人知道，但是很多人没有这个选项。
我们就是存满401k，存529。没有其他的。
then you need to read IRS网站 again.
401K vs. IRA，traditional vs. ROTH，里面的门道很多，是很confusing。 我今年为了搭上 mega backdoor 最后一班车，好好研究了一下，最后的结论是越早把钱转进 ROTH IRA 越好。ROTH 401K 也是可以转 ROTH IRA 的，换工作的时候会是个机会。