转一下，我不太懂 ------------------- Spike Protein Goes to Nucleus and Impairs DNA Repair (In-Vitro Study) https://youtu.be/-SYL-iU0E9Q [ 链接：youtu.be/-SYL-iU0E9Q ] "SARS-CoV-2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro - PubMed" https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/ [ 链接：pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/ ] --------------------- 意思是全长S protein跟hiv有差不多的能力破坏免疫系统。 用的灭活疫苗下的结论。 尼玛这下子只有NVAX有希望了。 ----------------------- 这里有篇类似的，貌似灭活疫苗也不靠谱。 Here, we report, besides generation of neutralizing antibodies, consistent alterations in hemoglobin A1c, serum sodium and potassium levels, coagulation profiles, and renal functions in healthy volunteers after vaccination with an inactivated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. Similar changes had also been reported in COVID-19 patients, suggesting that vaccination mimicked an infection. Single-cell mRNA sequencing (scRNA-seq) of peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) before and 28 days after the first inoculation also revealed consistent alterations in gene expression of many different immune cell types. Reduction of CD8+ T cells and increase in classic monocyte contents were exemplary. Moreover, scRNA-seq revealed increased NF-κB signaling and reduced type I interferon responses, which were confirmed by biological assays and also had been reported to occur after SARS-CoV-2 infection with aggravating symptoms. Altogether, our study recommends additional caution when vaccinating people with pre-existing clinical conditions, including diabetes, electrolyte imbalances, renal dysfunction, and coagulation disorders. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3 [ 链接：www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3 ] ----------------------------------- 灭活, 腺病毒和mRNA都是用的裸体全长S protein， 按这个文章说会损坏adaptive immunity。 Novavax那个particle经过包装处理的，至少看报告是能促生CD8+ T cells， http://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20653-8 [ 链接：www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20653-8 ] 这个东西就是adaptive immunity中介。 当然本人不是搞这行的，门外汉看个热闹。 ------------------------------------
gatobarb 发表于 2021-11-09 21:43
S protein 破坏免疫性这种种东西，估计都还在发文章吹泡阶段，我本人不是做免疫方向的，不过随便找篇文献看一下就知道了。 至于这个疫苗再扯上S protein，又隔了一层山。所以蛋扯的很远。 完全可以不用离这种捕风捉影的玩意儿。
打不打疫苗就应该是个人的选择，尤其是涉及到孩子。我一家是第一时间都打了，包括父母，老大也是赶着13岁的时候打了，因为她身体一般，什么病毒都会让她生病，第二针后密切观察，发现心脏不舒服后，休息了1天，然后就没有症状了。但还是感染了病毒，当然没有什么症状，一周就好了。 现在轮到老二老三了，她们身体都好，我就还没有打，想等她们再大一些，这些都应该是个人选择，打不打疫苗都会感染病毒，这是不可避免的，都是比例的问题，死亡也是一样的，都是比例问题，幻想着打了疫苗后你就百毒不侵了，那是不可能的，死亡率还是有的，就是减少了而已。打疫苗后的副作用也是不可避免的，回避是不现实的，就是看你能不能接受的问题，在你自己这个年龄，是不打疫苗感染后死亡比例大还是打了疫苗后副作用死亡比例大，人这一生都是take the risk。
政策层面不堪一击？ Nearly 40% of California state workers are unvaccinated against COVID despite Newsom order 这是三周前的数字 https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/the-state-worker/article254974997.html 这是美国最深蓝州的州政府工作人员，都是成年人，有38%没有打。 而且3个月前Newsom就下令state workers to be fully vaccinated or take weekly testing. 结果呢？38%的还没有打，而且没有打的人，只有一小部分在做weekly test。 在一个部门，有6700人没有打疫苗，只有75个人被tested 在另外一个部门，3600个没有打疫苗，有411个被tested（好歹比前一个部门比例大一点） https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-10-25/covid-19-vaccinations-lagging-among-california-state-workers 州政府雇员！我以为他们应该很乖呢！ 说明啥，说明大家在阳奉阴违。newsom把这些不遵守命令的都解雇啊。
转我娃一同学的妈妈（儿科医生）写在FB上的： People have asked me why they should vaccinate their 5-11 year-olds. I’ll start by answering a different, but related question: why am I vaccinating my 9-year old? Answering this question with all the skin in the game that one could possibly have may be more convincing. So please bear in mind that this answer isn’t just from a board-certified pediatrician’s perspective who has been giving advice to patients for more than twenty years on this very topic, but from someone who, like you, would do anything to protect their own child from harm, and who, like you, would never actively choose to subject them to something that would cause them any harm. I start my answer on the premise that the COVID-19 vaccines are well-studied and safe in the 5-11 age range. In the recent study cited by Pfizer to obtain FDA approval, there were no adverse events whatsoever in any children receiving the vaccine. Period. If this were not the case, and if I thought that the vaccine caused harm, then I wouldn’t be writing this or convincing families in my office to vaccinate their kids. We would be having a different conversation about the risks of the vaccine and the potential benefits. Of course there is always a possibility of a rare vaccine adverse event, but this wasn’t seen in the 5-11 age group that was studied. Some people may be concerned that the vaccine was studied over a 2 month time period and think that there could be long-term side effects. It must be said that no vaccine has been studied for long-term side effects beyond 2 months from administration. The fourteen vaccinations you have already given your child before the age of two do not have long-term side effects, and there is no scientific reason to believe that this vaccine is different. In fact, the National Vaccine Adverse Event Report System (VAERS) only allows you to report a possible side-effect of a vaccine in an immunocompetent individual up until 42 days after immunization. An issue past 42 days is considered unrelated to the vaccine given weeks earlier. I like to think of mRNA vaccines (the only ones approved for the 18 and under population) as a message delivered to your immune system. Your body “recognizes the message,” and uses this information to mount future protection in case that it meets the virus again in real life. And then the message goes away. It doesn’t stay in your body. It doesn’t have future effects on fertility. Period. Vaccines are like teachers. They teach your immune systems a lesson, and enable our bodies to use this information in the future. The Pfizer vaccine can be considered an excellent teacher. It is very effective at teaching our children’s immune systems, and prevented 91% of symptomatic COVID disease in the recent pediatric studies. And now I’ll answer some commonly asked questions. Please note that most numbers are referring to the 5-11 age group. 1. I don’t think that COVID-19 is dangerous to young children. Why do we have to vaccinate them? It is an incorrect premise that COVID-19 is not dangerous to children. Sometimes personal stories are more powerful than statistics, and many people know children who have had mild cases of COVID-19 (thank goodness). But to hear comparatively “good stories” like these, and therefore convince yourself that COVID-19 is never dangerous in children, is problematic and incorrect. If there are 73 million kids in the US, and if every child gets COVID eventually with a death rate of .01%, then that means that 7300 children will die. It is unacceptable to lose this many children (or even one child!) from a vaccine preventable illness. I never trust anyone who says that “ONLY” 94 children between the ages 5-11 have died of COVID-19 (between 1/1/20-10/16/21). If you have to use the word ONLY before quoting the number of children who have died, there is something wrong with you. If your child is the one who dies, it’s 100% for you, and your world is forever changed. In the recent Delta surge, COVID-19 was the #6 cause of death in the 5-11 age group. Not to be an alarmist or to give a virus much credit, but a virus tries to mutate to increase its chances of surviving. If a virus finds a host, it has a chance to mutate. What’s coming after Delta? I would rather not find out. Vaccinate. Vaccinating will decrease COVID-19’s ability to mutate. Our biggest fear is that a future mutation will be able to evade our vaccine protection, and then we will have lost the best tool we have to turn the COVID-19 Pandemic into an Endemic virus that we can “live with.” I’m probably preaching to the choir on this one, but just a reminder that even though children (thank goodness) are less likely to die from COVID, they can and do develop the debilitating long-hauler syndrome or dangerous Multi-system Inflammatory Syndrome. Vaccinate. 2. Why do I have to vaccine my child in order to protect an adult? I don’t think it’s fair for my child to have to do this. We’ve heard over and over throughout the pandemic that some protective strategies help protect individuals, and some strategies are intended to protect the community. I find it disheartening that we have come to a point as a nation where we actively have to convince people to protect others. Immunocompromised individuals, such as patients who have cancer, or may have a disease such as Crohn’s or Rheumatoid Arthritis and are on medications that suppress their own immune systems, do not always receive full protection from the COVID-19 vaccine. Although it is rare, some vaccinated adults and elderly have still become very sick (and died) when contracting COVID-19 (although booster shots should help prevent this). I sometimes use this reasoning when advising families to get the Varicella vaccine. Varivax is an example of a vaccine that not only benefits the individual, but also offers some benefits to OTHER people in the community. One reason to give your child the COVID-19 vaccine is to protect others. Vaccinate. We ask parents and grandparents of newborns to make sure that they get the Flu and Pertussis vaccines. The idea of vaccinating to protect others is not new. 3. I heard that if you get the vaccine, you can still get COVID. So how is this helping decrease community spread? I appreciate that it is hard for some people to understand that medicine is also an art. Medicine is not black and white. If someone makes a statement like the above, they are likely following political blogs and not getting their information from physicians. But put most accurately and simplistically: If you are vaccinated, you are LESS likely to get COVID, and IF you get COVID while vaccinated, you are less likely to spread it. Viral shedding time in vaccinated patients is significantly decreased -- unvaccinated people can spread disease for much longer than a vaccinated person can. Unvaccinated people may also spread a higher viral load, although this is still being studied. VACCINATION IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT MITIGATION STRATEGY WE HAVE. THE MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINATED, THE BETTER. Remember this. We’ll come back to it soon. And just a warning to please be careful of people (without medical training) who have strong alternative views on COVID-19 vaccinations. They likely have searched very hard to find “medical experts” who support their opinions. The American Board of Pediatrics recently stated that physicians who are spreading misinformation to the public during a time of public health emergency are unethical and dangerous, and that any such behavior would be subject to disciplinary actions, including revoking a medical license. I’m all for doing research to make an informed decision, but in this day of Dr. Google, please be careful where you receive your information. 4. My child had COVID. Do I still need to vaccinate? Yes. We are just 18 months into the pandemic, and doctors do not have all the answers. (Be wary of anyone who thinks that doctors have answers, but are withholding them for personal benefit. Doctors don’t do this!). We don’t know how long you are protected after natural disease. This reminds me of families who wish to check their MMR titers instead of getting the kindergarten boosters. You may be protected at the moment we draw your child’s blood, but I can’t promise what will happen down the road. And back to COVID, we don’t know how well antibody levels correlate with clinical protection. Since so much is unknown, I do not recommend playing Russian roulette with your child. 5. I just read everything above, and I’m still not convinced. So this takes me to maybe my most compelling argument of why I recommend the COVID-19 vaccine for children ages 5-11. (If you are reading this and have an unvaccinated 12+ year-old, hopefully I am reaching you too). The above picture of my 9 year-old in a Halloween mask is cute and creative. For her 4th grade Halloween party (which I happened to organize), the children all decorated masks, and I thought that I came up with the best idea ever that should be done for years to come. If you have ever been a class mom, you know the pressure we feel trying to come up with a creative class party. I thought I hit the jackpot. But then I thought about it more, and I realized that I hope this is the last time our kids ever decorate masks for Halloween. I want (just like you all want) to see our kid’s faces again. I know that teachers are struggling reading their student’s facial expressions under the masks. I am worried about long-term effects on social development. Don’t get me wrong, I prefer in-person school as opposed to virtual. I am grateful that a little piece of fabric (or if you are my child, a KN-95) is allowing for in-person school. By no means am I saying that my priority is to unmask the children - that is a political statement. Rather, I am hoping that in the not so far away future (don’t ask me when, my crystal ball broke), we can start talking about “off ramps” from COVID that are safe and medically, rather than politically, motivated. I am very fortunate that my state and school district have listened to the science, resulting in very few interruptions in our school year so far. I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT VACCINATION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT STRATEGY TO FIGHT THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC AND TO HELP US ENTER THE NEXT NORMAL. Kids have lost so much: they’ve missed school, had virtual celebrations, skipped celebrations, missed sports seasons, cancelled senior proms, school shows cancelled, graduations cancelled, gotten sick, been hospitalized, are now living with long-term complications. And, yes, some have died, much too young. Many have lost a parent or grandparent. Vaccinate. I will be vaccinating my own 9 year-old as soon as those vaccines are available because I know that it is safe, and I am hoping to help her and the children in my area so that we can soon have that conversation about seeing our children’s smiles again and take steps to actually make it happen safely. High vaccination rates and thoughtful testing strategies can be used in conjunction with the community COVID numbers in order to help our kids not compromise any more of their childhood. transient 发表于 2021-11-10 08:55
政策层面不堪一击？ Nearly 40% of California state workers are unvaccinated against COVID despite Newsom order 这是三周前的数字 https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/the-state-worker/article254974997.html 这是美国最深蓝州的州政府工作人员，都是成年人，有38%没有打。 而且3个月前Newsom就下令state workers to be fully vaccinated or take weekly testing. 结果呢？38%的还没有打，而且没有打的人，只有一小部分在做weekly test。 在一个部门，有6700人没有打疫苗，只有75个人被tested 在另外一个部门，3600个没有打疫苗，有411个被tested（好歹比前一个部门比例大一点） https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-10-25/covid-19-vaccinations-lagging-among-california-state-workers 州政府雇员！我以为他们应该很乖呢！ 说明啥，说明大家在阳奉阴违。newsom把这些不遵守命令的都解雇啊。
身体特别健康的，打完要观察一下，心脏不舒服的及时去医院看。
same here
爱打不打，都是自己的选择 这个东西的判断和父母的教育程度智商正相关。只有那些没脑子也没受过正规教育的人才容易被各种忽悠。完全没有自己的判断 我选择不打的原因是觉得病毒对于孩子根本没有什么风险，至于疫苗的风险，其实也没有啥风险，只是脱了裤子放屁，不想去折腾，就这么简单。
所以你专开一5-11儿童疫苗贴来让人不要再讨论5-11儿童疫苗？
S protein 破坏免疫性这种种东西，估计都还在发文章吹泡阶段，我本人不是做免疫方向的，不过随便找篇文献看一下就知道了。 至于这个疫苗再扯上S protein，又隔了一层山。所以蛋扯的很远。 完全可以不用离这种捕风捉影的玩意儿。
我其实觉得讨论也好，父母的教育程度也好，到了政策层面都不堪一击。现在很明显疫苗就是抗疫的最后一根救命稻草，政府需要它让社会正常化，彻底摘掉口罩。政府希望在新一波疫情恶化之前尽量推广施打。然而我们州打疫苗率算是高的，现在ICU也没有几张床了。打了疫苗不戴口罩，这疫苗有多大用真不好说
楼主说的事实描述的只是很多人愿意打疫苗，但是并没有回答自己提出的问题“该不该打”
这个现象和这个问题没有什么联系，既不是充分条件，也不是必要条件
其实对于新事物有人持反对的声音是件好事。没有人反对才需要担心。大家多讨论多听听不同的声音未尝不可。
唯心唯物的，人民日报评论员的调子
本来都是选择，不可能强制你的，这个时候理智和判断就起了很大作用 比如学校现在的政策是，你可以不打，包括12岁的大小孩，但是，一旦你头疼发烧任何咳嗽症状，学校nurse就把你赶回家，cov检测报告，如果negative可以返校，如果positive，你就在家顿俩礼拜，然后拿doctor的note才能返校。这个是很公平的啊，对打和不打的人都公平，对学校也是一种负责任或者说免责的表现 其他公司或者政府部门更简单，还是那句话，不强制要求，你也可以不打，但是每两周上传一下cov检测报告，这个我觉得也很公平 至于你打不打，还是你自己的选择，但是政府或者说执行者的倾向性很明显的表达了。这就行了
同意打不打都是个人选择。但是执政者想让你打还是有办法的，比如drop学校口罩令或者更狠一点强制打疫苗。如果只是你说的情况，我觉得很fair。我自己是打了疫苗的，但是同事当中也有不愿意打的。她平时都戴口罩，防疫也很小心，我们都尊重她的选择。
我有很权威的说法，随便，甚至可以两个同时打都没问题的
医生在疫苗上也没有什么特殊知识，又不是做研发的，医生同样也不是流行病专家，covid刚开始时医生还说不用戴口罩洗手就好了呢，不过就是照着CDC指南念而已。
事实证明打疫苗既不能排除感染，也不能杜绝传播，打了疫苗有症状为什么就不需要回家等测试？
我们学校全体强制打了疫苗，开心了没有一个月，又回到全员戴口罩。身边breakthrough case已经知道好几例。
好奇隔了一层啥山
为啥没什么文化的川粉们都迷之自信觉得自己比医生和传染病专家还懂？还装作世人独醉我独醒，但对网络上一个阿猫阿狗写的网文或者youtube小道消息却是相信的五体投地？归根结底是愚昧
控制新冠已经是全人类都必须参与的了。想想政府房屋拆迁，你可以选择不搬，最终的结果不会改变，战线拉长而已。所以让子弹飞一会儿也差不多了，该打还是去打。
就是这个道理 其实打过疫苗就不用测正好为传播打开了一个缺口
是呀，即便是专业研究者也不能断定怎样是正确的。写过paper的人应该都知道你在得出结论时，都是在一定条件下，或者结论只是可能，很可能，而极少结论是100%的肯定。专家自己都没有定论，只是选择他们认为更安全更可能的结论。为什么一群人这么追捧专家？比专家还肯定。
政策层面不堪一击？
Nearly 40% of California state workers are unvaccinated against COVID despite Newsom order 这是三周前的数字 https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/the-state-worker/article254974997.html
这是美国最深蓝州的州政府工作人员，都是成年人，有38%没有打。 而且3个月前Newsom就下令state workers to be fully vaccinated or take weekly testing. 结果呢？38%的还没有打，而且没有打的人，只有一小部分在做weekly test。 在一个部门，有6700人没有打疫苗，只有75个人被tested 在另外一个部门，3600个没有打疫苗，有411个被tested（好歹比前一个部门比例大一点）
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-10-25/covid-19-vaccinations-lagging-among-california-state-workers
州政府雇员！我以为他们应该很乖呢！ 说明啥，说明大家在阳奉阴违。newsom把这些不遵守命令的都解雇啊。
对对对 千万不要相信专家 什么制药厂都是为了骗钱
自己研究最靠谱 以后生病都自己在家治好了
我去看了这个年龄段死亡数据（出自CDC)，流感仍然是排在Covid前面的。为什么流感疫苗没有强制？大家对娃得流感恐慌吗？
而且新冠治疗药物也出来了。
当然不恐慌了，因为小孩每年都打流感疫苗啊， 你们家孩子不打吗?
全美国每年打流感疫苗的比例是50%左右。
甭说什么全美国了，你们家孩子打不打流感疫苗吧?
我父母公婆在国内响应号召打了科兴，除了人乏力之外，就是各种关节痛，妈妈和婆婆都突然胃痛，我婆婆做了胃镜肠镜都没发现啥，我妈每次痛就在床上硬抗。当然他们不愿意相信是疫苗的影响。期间我让他们买了白瓶骨胶原吃，一个月没有任何效果。我爸从肩膀到膝盖脚踝，一路每处痛个遍，说是要去打封闭针了，因为走路都吃力，洗澡也不能洗。直到我让他们开始吃nac, 渐渐有所好转。现在第四个月了吧，我爸终于可以外出散散步了。
我家大人孩子都不打呀，从来没打过，也不恐慌啊，照样出去玩啊。
看着不像灭活倒像硬生生得了一次。。。
孩子出生后的各种麻疹疫苗你们家也不打吗？
流感疫苗多少年了？副作用和机理都相当清楚，这么安全的疫苗拿来和新的mrna疫苗比不合适。你看哪年打完流感疫苗要专门在华人开这么多贴讨论死亡，心肌炎，月经紊乱的副作用？
NAC就是能调节微血栓的那个吧？我也看到很多人说了那个有用。但有些人就是不信真的有严重副作用，我们天天喊就是不信，也没有人认真对待这件事情。如果事情发展到无法控制的地步（比如逼着我打第三针），可能真的要搬家了。
抬头看131楼, 不就有反疫苗斗士全家不打经过这么多年临床验证的流感疫苗嘛？而且还得意的很
美国儿童打流感疫苗的比例在60%左右，我家其实每年都打的，但没打的也不会怕的要死或者被骂反智。
可能流感疫苗效果较差，医生也说了有效率三到七成，但会减轻症状？我也不是很清楚有没有用，娃没得过，我们俩大人有的年份会得有时不会，没有摸到规律。
儿童新冠疫苗效果现在也不清楚啊，2000多人参加trial，对照组一共有16人感染，重症的没有。
人不打就不打 又没吃你家大米
流感疫苗也不防传染 别人打与不打也对你没影响的
我以前年年打 现在也不打了
我觉得很多人不打流感疫苗是因为他们不介意得流感， 并不是怕疫苗本身。打和不打的人都不会互相评价，这次的新冠疫苗的舆论明显不一样。
全美国每年有50%的人不打流感疫苗，喔，原来美国有50%的人是反疫苗斗士啊，那我还有什么不放心的。
既然参加实验并且感染的小孩一个都没有重症，他们如何验证疫苗有效性vs 不打疫苗呢？考脑补？然后还义无反顾地推出来。呵呵
是呀，我以前每半年都给他们寄各种保健品，他们都爱吃不吃的，反正是我出钱他们也不在乎浪费。这次他们痛到实在受不了了，觉得就算去医院也解决不了，就想自己吃点止痛药忍，但是时间一久人变得抑郁，觉得真是老了废了。我原本想从美国寄NAC给他们，但一来有一阵子不好买，也不知道会不会在海关遇到问题。后来他们直接淘宝买了，虽然比美国贵点，但可以马上吃到。所以这次双十一，又去囤了几瓶，想来虽然他们不愿意承认疫苗有问题，但是身体的诚实的。
不至于这么急啊，毕竟涉及到小孩子。这个trial的人数实在很少，CDC自己也说不能evaluate比如心肌炎之类副作用的可能性。
J&J的疫苗当初也是紧急批准了的，我们大学本来要给本科生全部打这个，时间地点都安排好了，一周之内又紧急撤销。
这才几个月以前的事情？大家都忘了吗？怎么就那么信安全性？
这次儿童疫苗CDC官员说trial人少不要紧，我们有监督系统，出现问题可以及时反馈，就像我们暂停J&J疫苗一样。
问题是你想不想当给CDC提供数据的呢？
看了Brianne Dressen的例子就会发现这个监督系统都是biased，有严重副作用的trial case第一针就可以直接被withdraw，这个case没有进入到最后的副作用统计里。 那个瘫痪的maddie de garay被仅仅记录为高烧>40度，肚子痛。 讨论疫苗问题的文章被拒收，因为不是priority。 医生教授害怕公开发表观点，因为会被贴anti-vaxx标签，或被开除。 疫苗副作用受害者自发组成的facebook/reddit互助群被解散。
疫苗副作用受害者被歧视，被忽略，被嘲笑精神有问题绝对不是正常的。
或许有人说我阴谋论，anti-vaxxer。我只说了想要说的，只要有心的人看到就够了。愿意了解的人自会去了解。
你忘了观望的也有得了死了不用打的吧？
是啊，在疫苗这个问题上，所有的反馈机制都被压制了。我个人现在在短短一个月就知道了两个认识的人疫苗以后死亡，一个是被Tyson强制，一个是TSA强制，但是可能都不会被归到疫苗副作用上。我还有认识的人说她有10个以上的朋友和亲属疫苗后死亡，因为毕竟白人比我的交际面广太多，所以我觉得这也不是没有可能的。
十个以上打疫苗死的。反疫苗得人编故事都不知道也是靠谱一点。不过可能说受众智商太低，也不用花心思编瞎话。
没到时间啊，纽约警察到最后不也就几十个人真因为疫苗辞职了，其他人还是打了。
二极管吗？非黑即白，将信将疑不行吗？就奇怪为啥不能质疑专家？专家之间还好多有相反的结论。钟南山也是专家，你要不要信？他的病毒知识比你多吧
老祖宗早就说了，事出反常必有妖。
急吼吼打了强生疫苗的也有得血栓的吧？也有死的吧？
请问是哪种NAC? 求link
最普通的now foods牌子的。 Amazon上面早早地禁售了。我一般在iherb上面买。
我的个人理解是这个临床是今年3月份就开始了， 而德尔塔泛滥美国是八九月的事了。对原始和德尔塔之前的毒株，疫苗防传染的效果也很明显， 所以我们看到的主要收益是降低了感染率。临床实验如能延长一点， 搞清疫苗在小孩中防德尔塔重症的效果就好了。