5-11岁儿童现在该不该打疫苗? 事实说话

桂圆肉
楼主 (北美华人网)
我们学区专门定了3天到指定某小学打疫苗,非强制的,昨天发信说,才刚两天从早到晚的时间全部都被家长给预订了,考虑是否再加一天
华人妈妈们真的别在这每天理性讨论了,你们不爱打,疫苗也不会烂在地里的,自有无脑跟风的愿意打

最新回帖

Challenger2021
155 楼
有啥可吵,打或不打都自行承担后果
c
crowncaprice
154 楼
回复 138楼huangleboluo的帖子
我的个人理解是这个临床是今年3月份就开始了, 而德尔塔泛滥美国是八九月的事了。对原始和德尔塔之前的毒株,疫苗防传染的效果也很明显, 所以我们看到的主要收益是降低了感染率。临床实验如能延长一点, 搞清疫苗在小孩中防德尔塔重症的效果就好了。
laalaatou
153 楼
请问是哪种NAC? 求link
meshell 发表于 2021-11-10 15:37

最普通的now foods牌子的。 Amazon上面早早地禁售了。我一般在iherb上面买。
CleverBeaver
h
hope20111
挺好的
zhengxumaomao
挺好的,dp自然是越多越好了
pop
楼主的意思我没太明白,是说那么多人抢着打疫苗所以自己的孩子也应该打,还是说那么多人抢着打疫苗所以自己的孩子不用打了?
umizumi
跟着羊群一个一个跳下悬崖的羊没死之前也都是很开心的。
m
mylittle9
这个真的挺好的。现在打的人越多,疫苗真实的risk vs.benefit就会越早越准确的显示。犹豫和观望的人后来做选择,就会有更多的数据支持.
想打的人能打上,观望的人有数据。win win. 就怕一直没人打,大家都在盲选。就算一直选择不打,心里也嘀咕不是?
桂圆肉
楼主的意思我没太明白,是说那么多人抢着打疫苗所以自己的孩子也应该打,还是说那么多人抢着打疫苗所以自己的孩子不用打了?
pop 发表于 2021-11-09 16:45

自己判断吧,华人觉得自己有点文化的什么生物博士化学博士的,都在等着别人家孩子打趴下,其实我办公室也有另外两个医生妈妈还特意请假了半天,说要去学区指定日带孩子打疫苗去, 我也不知道到底是医生想得更通透,还是咱华人PhD妈妈们更牛掰,自己看着办吧
kellyqin6
不是说美国1/3 家长立刻就想打? 人满为患也是正常。 就是希望打完这些人别盯着别人家孩子强制就行。
桂圆肉
跟着羊群一个一个跳下悬崖的羊没死之前也都是很开心的。
umizumi 发表于 2021-11-09 16:50

哈哈,是这样的,其实就算不打, 得了新冠也没什么,身边已经有4个中国小朋友得了,低烧乏力,几天休息就好了.....刚想起来是6个,其中一家中国教会的小兄弟俩一起得了,父母反倒是没事
桂圆肉
不是说美国1/3 家长立刻就想打? 人满为患也是正常。 就是希望打完这些人别盯着别人家孩子强制就行。
kellyqin6 发表于 2021-11-09 16:54

美国这个球样,你觉得会强制小朋友吗?
msqs
美国这个球样,你觉得会强制小朋友吗?
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-09 16:56

我们这里好几个学校已经强制了
桂圆肉
我们这里好几个学校已经强制了
msqs 发表于 2021-11-09 16:58

是小学吗?!
那难道不是因为现在5-11供应还没跟上吗?三月时候成年人还抢appointment呢。 不然这么爱打,美国疫苗率还刚刚一半?哦有人说了,剩下没打的都是乡下的,没文化的,过了一半就是民意了,是吧。
zlf
那难道不是因为现在5-11供应还没跟上吗?三月时候成年人还抢appointment呢。 不然这么爱打,美国疫苗率还刚刚一半?哦有人说了,剩下没打的都是乡下的,没文化的,过了一半就是民意了,是吧。
袁 发表于 2021-11-09 17:08

反了吧,我周围老中都是仗着自己特有文化的样子,不给孩子打
萧瑟
楼主的意思是,啥事都要赶着吃第一口热的?
年初打疫苗不也是一样的情景吗?很多人还没轮到的时候就急吼吼地去插队打,在朋友圈里晒。等过了几个月,想打的已经都打了,观望的人随去随打,也用不着预约。那些早打的,抗体也下降的差不多了,又能赶上第一波开打booster。

CleverBeaver
那难道不是因为现在5-11供应还没跟上吗?三月时候成年人还抢appointment呢。 不然这么爱打,美国疫苗率还刚刚一半?哦有人说了,剩下没打的都是乡下的,没文化的,过了一半就是民意了,是吧。
袁 发表于 2021-11-09 17:08

可能
我就没文化好了 没啥
laalaatou
是小学吗?!
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-09 17:00

我们这边的顶级私校小学都在校区内打上了,说是如果不愿意打,家长可以选择退学,当然就不是强制的喽。
dezhouren
跟着羊群一个一个跳下悬崖的羊没死之前也都是很开心的。
umizumi 发表于 2021-11-09 16:50

你是说那些选择不打疫苗准备跳下covid19悬崖的?还是觉得不打疫苗的娃肯定不会得covid19?
还是那句话 5-11岁的新冠疫苗,想打完全可以理解(担心下面的悲剧发生在自己家,或者有新的变种突然出来),不想打也完全可以理解(下文也说了重症在儿童比例目前是很低的,而且疫苗推出的时间不长),但是不要对别人的选择指手画脚,或者对自己的选择有优越感。
打不打5-11岁的新冠疫苗,这就是个人选择而已,别太戏精。
一名 4 岁女孩在德克萨斯州的一个极其罕见的病例中出现症状后 19 小时死于 COVID-19
https://www.businessinsider.com/4-year-old-girl-died-covid-19-rare-case-texas-2021-9 [ 链接:www.businessinsider.com/4-year-old-girl-died-covid-19-rare-case-texas-2021-9 ]
据加尔维斯顿县卫生区 [ 链接:www.gchd.org/Home/Components/News/News/4352/65 ]称,德克萨斯州巴克利夫的一名年轻女孩本周死于 COVID-19,这是一种极为罕见的病例。 女孩的母亲卡拉哈伍德告诉加尔维斯顿县每日新闻 [ 链接:www.galvnews.com/news/free/article_22ebef04-ed48-5972-b8d7-f217b4e3b3c8.html ],四岁的卡莉库克在她开始出现症状几个小时后于周二去世。哈伍德说,她周一的 COVID-19 检测呈阳性,并试图将自己与孩子们隔离开来。 但在凌晨 2 点左右,她注意到 Kali 发烧了,并给她开了药来治疗。到早上 7 点,卡莉已经在睡梦中死去。 冠状病毒疫苗未被批准用于 12 岁以下儿童,因此 Kali 未接种疫苗。然而,她的母亲说她也感染了 COVID-19,她告诉《每日新闻》,她后悔自己没有接种疫苗。 “我是反对它的人之一,我反对它,”她说。“现在,我希望我从来没有。” 据哥伦比亚广播公司附属机构KHOU 称 [ 链接:www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/galveston-county-4-year-old-dies-covid-19/285-b564cbb4-8bf8-4105-b341-41fcbd23cadf ],哈伍德的其他孩子也生病了。周五,Harwood 拨打了 911,因为她担心她的小女儿呼吸不规律。
哈伍德告诉当地新闻媒体,卡利“非常有趣和时髦”,并且“宁愿与蠕虫和青蛙玩耍,也不愿戴蝴蝶结。” 加尔维斯顿县卫生区表示,卡利的死亡是该地区有记录的最年轻的 COVID-19 死亡病例。该学区还表示,不相信她在学校期间感染了 COVID-19,当时她还是学前班学生。 Kali 去世后,Harwood 成立了GoFundMe [ 链接:www.gofundme.com/f/xs69p5-help-lay-our-beautiful-baby-girl-to-rest ]来支付丧葬费用。到目前为止,众筹已筹集了近 20,000 美元。 “她的心对于这个残酷的世界来说太纯洁了,上帝决定他需要另一个美丽的天使在他身边,”哈伍德在 GoFundMe 上写道。 她补充说:“我们的家人感染了新冠病毒并因此失业,所以我们压力过大,受到了伤害。” “任何事情都会有所帮助,kali 会非常感谢能够舒适地休息并等待再次见到我们。” 越来越多的儿童检测出 COVID-19 呈阳性,因为更易传播的 Delta 变体导致全国病例激增。然而,幼儿的严重疾病和死亡仍然很少见。 根据美国儿科学会9 月 2 日的一份报告 [ 链接:www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/ ],在报告数字的州,儿童占所有 COVID-19 死亡人数的 0.00% 至 0.27%,而导致死亡的所有儿童 COVID-19 病例的 0.00% 至 0.03% . 但偶尔有儿童死亡的报道,其中包括一名 5 岁男孩于 7 月在乔治亚州 [ 链接:www.businessinsider.com/5-year-old-covid-19-died-vanishingly-rare-case-georgia-2021-7 ]死亡,以及一名 5 岁以下儿童于本周在加利福尼亚州奥兰治县 [ 链接:www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-10/second-child-dies-of-covid-19-in-orange-county ]死亡
反了吧,我周围老中都是仗着自己特有文化的样子,不给孩子打
zlf 发表于 2021-11-09 17:11

我不是说不该打,我的意思是不用因为大家都一哄而上我就也要跑的快点不能拉下了,weigh in利弊做决定。
zlf
我们这边的顶级私校小学都在校区内打上了,说是如果不愿意打,家长可以选择退学,当然就不是强制的喽。
laalaatou 发表于 2021-11-09 17:20

说明家长和人私立气场不合,人家定的游戏规则,不愿意遵守,有困难不能遵守,那就退学换一家私立呗?
transient
我们这里好几个学校已经强制了
msqs 发表于 2021-11-09 16:58

私校吧都是?之前十二岁以上娃打疫苗也是听说几家顶私要求打。公校没有这个权力。
laalaatou
说明家长和人私立气场不合,人家定的游戏规则,不愿意遵守,有困难不能遵守,那就退学换一家私立呗?
zlf 发表于 2021-11-09 17:24

你要是知道老中家庭为了进顶私花的心思和钱就不会说句那么轻松换个私校就好的话了。
zlf
你要是知道老中家庭为了进顶私花的心思和钱就不会说句那么轻松换个私校就好的话了。
laalaatou 发表于 2021-11-09 17:40

知道顶私人就是这么霸气侧漏,也不是一天两天的事儿了吧,老中家长根本就不应该无脑往里冲啊, 自己承受不了人家的游戏规则有什么可抱怨的呢
umizumi
你是说那些选择不打疫苗准备跳下covid19悬崖的?还是觉得不打疫苗的娃肯定不会得covid19?
还是那句话,想打可以,不想打也可以,但是不要对别人的选择指手画脚,或者对自己的选择有优越感;打不打疫苗,这就是个人选择而已,别太戏精。
dezhouren 发表于 2021-11-09 17:23

不打疫苗的不是因为跟风凑热闹吧。不打疫苗那可是逆流而上啊,又是被骂反智川粉,孩子在学校又是peer pressure,出去遇见一些家长打算跟你弹冠相庆终于出了小孩疫苗的还不能说漏嘴还得跟着附和说好啊好啊。所以还是做羊舒服。
m
mary的小绵羊
5-11该不该打疫苗和你说的事实(你们学区打针都订满了)完全没有关联。该不该打疫苗要看自己家和孩子的情况来说话。
热气腾腾
不是说12岁之前打是大人的1/3剂量,12岁之后打就是大人的剂量,10岁左右小孩父母你们决定好了给小孩打了吗
p
purpleqq
哈哈,是这样的,其实就算不打, 得了新冠也没什么,身边已经有4个中国小朋友得了,低烧乏力,几天休息就好了.....刚想起来是6个,其中一家中国教会的小兄弟俩一起得了,父母反倒是没事
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-09 16:55

这么多啊 我还只知道2个 估计不是很近的关系的话 得了也不知道
zlf
不是说12岁之前打是大人的1/3剂量,12岁之后打就是大人的剂量,10岁左右小孩父母你们决定好了给小孩打了吗
热气腾腾 发表于 2021-11-09 17:47

11岁的打1/3, 12岁的打全针,我在担心11岁的是不是打了也白打啊,能有用吗?
msqs
私校吧都是?之前十二岁以上娃打疫苗也是听说几家顶私要求打。公校没有这个权力。
transient 发表于 2021-11-09 17:26

对,顶私
minijing
自己判断吧,华人觉得自己有点文化的什么生物博士化学博士的,都在等着别人家孩子打趴下,其实我办公室也有另外两个医生妈妈还特意请假了半天,说要去学区指定日带孩子打疫苗去, 我也不知道到底是医生想得更通透,还是咱华人PhD妈妈们更牛掰,自己看着办吧
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-09 16:51

这话说的怎么这么讽刺,把不给孩子打疫苗的PhD讽刺的有点文化而已,医生同事就通透多了。只不过医生的做法刚好符合了你的想法,就贬反方没文化?观点不同而已,医生是拿现成的科研成果行医的,自然相信数据,PhD是做研究的,很明白科研里面的局限性,更愿意看到经过反复验证的数据。仅此而已,不用这么讽刺吧,就跟历史上没有出现过医疗事故或药物事故似的,很多东西需要时间验证,当benefit不大的时候不take risk有什么值得讽刺的?再说了,干嘛一窝蜂呢?早几周晚几周对这个年龄段的小朋友有什么关系?等不挤了再去打不也挺好?
桂圆肉
5-11该不该打疫苗和你说的事实(你们学区打针都订满了)完全没有关联。该不该打疫苗要看自己家和孩子的情况来说话。
mary的小绵羊 发表于 2021-11-09 17:47

什么是根据自家孩子的情况?你们家孩子要是有基础病,不打,完全说得过去。但是,现在华人大妈们得瑟不打是有脑子的优越感,实在也是好笑
msqs
什么是根据自家孩子的情况?你们家孩子要是有基础病,不打,完全说得过去。但是,现在华人大妈们得瑟不打是有脑子的优越感,实在也是好笑
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-09 17:56

我们儿医说了,有基础病的更要打,要更快打,因为感染新冠会是致命的😂
m
mary的小绵羊
什么是根据自家孩子的情况?你们家孩子要是有基础病,不打,完全说得过去。但是,现在华人大妈们得瑟不打是有脑子的优越感,实在也是好笑
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-09 17:56

说反了吧。有基础病的孩子是建议打的。
msqs
你要是知道老中家庭为了进顶私花的心思和钱就不会说句那么轻松换个私校就好的话了。
laalaatou 发表于 2021-11-09 17:40

正确,除了一代老中家长在犹豫,其他都抢着打😂
h
hnlaser
11岁的打1/3, 12岁的打全针,我在担心11岁的是不是打了也白打啊,能有用吗?
zlf 发表于 2021-11-09 17:50

满了12去打全剂量booster补上?
桂圆肉
说反了吧。有基础病的孩子是建议打的。
mary的小绵羊 发表于 2021-11-09 18:01

我朋友是成人,有基础病,医生当时建议她先不要打,她一直等到了上个月才打了第一针
l
leilei
6%的感染率,你说呢?30% 还会考虑一下,6% 呵呵
桂圆肉
6%的感染率,你说呢?30% 还会考虑一下,6% 呵呵
leilei 发表于 2021-11-09 18:05

你们圣诞打算出去玩吗?没有计划的话,确实可以在家享受6%的福利
幽幽寸草心
不打疫苗的不是因为跟风凑热闹吧。不打疫苗那可是逆流而上啊,又是被骂反智川粉,孩子在学校又是peer pressure,出去遇见一些家长打算跟你弹冠相庆终于出了小孩疫苗的还不能说漏嘴还得跟着附和说好啊好啊。所以还是做羊舒服。
umizumi 发表于 2021-11-09 17:46

红州没压力。 连大人都不强制, 大学里明确规定学生老师是否打疫苗是隐私, 不许问
dailymail
红州没压力。 连大人都不强制, 大学里明确规定学生老师是否打疫苗是隐私, 不许问
幽幽寸草心 发表于 2021-11-09 18:29

可以可以。
bh_833
红州没压力。 连大人都不强制, 大学里明确规定学生老师是否打疫苗是隐私, 不许问
幽幽寸草心 发表于 2021-11-09 18:29

红州大学杜克,规定教职工必须打新冠疫苗,疾病或宗教原因有证明可以免除。https://covidvaccine.duke.edu/requirements
芸飞扬
对,顶私
msqs 发表于 2021-11-09 17:52

排名多少算顶级私立啊?
xiaowenchun
国内给小孩的灭活疫苗也批准了,但是最好别打。
方舟子推特:同济大学附属医院的一篇论文,健康人接种了中国新冠灭活疫苗以后,全身出现了类似于被新冠感染的病理性变化,而且身体免疫力反而降低了。我猜这篇论文投稿前没有被领导审过。 https://mobile.twitter.com/fangshimin/status/1457930696614309889
f
feemy
11岁的打1/3, 12岁的打全针,我在担心11岁的是不是打了也白打啊,能有用吗?
zlf 发表于 2021-11-09 17:50

同担心,量太少了吧,我娃10岁,胖,比12岁的瘦娃还重,只用人家1/3的量,能有效果吗?

g
gatobarb
国内给小孩的灭活疫苗也批准了,但是最好别打。
方舟子推特:同济大学附属医院的一篇论文,健康人接种了中国新冠灭活疫苗以后,全身出现了类似于被新冠感染的病理性变化,而且身体免疫力反而降低了。我猜这篇论文投稿前没有被领导审过。 https://mobile.twitter.com/fangshimin/status/1457930696614309889
xiaowenchun 发表于 2021-11-09 19:31

前两天好像不是有看到类似的关于mRNA的吗?
xiaowenchun
前两天好像不是有看到类似的关于mRNA的吗?
gatobarb 发表于 2021-11-09 19:49

哪里?发个source
P
Playdough
自己判断吧,华人觉得自己有点文化的什么生物博士化学博士的,都在等着别人家孩子打趴下,其实我办公室也有另外两个医生妈妈还特意请假了半天,说要去学区指定日带孩子打疫苗去, 我也不知道到底是医生想得更通透,还是咱华人PhD妈妈们更牛掰,自己看着办吧
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-09 16:51

医生比PhD有机会看到更多数据吗?凭什么她们的判断更可靠?
兔子过敏
自己判断吧,华人觉得自己有点文化的什么生物博士化学博士的,都在等着别人家孩子打趴下,其实我办公室也有另外两个医生妈妈还特意请假了半天,说要去学区指定日带孩子打疫苗去, 我也不知道到底是医生想得更通透,还是咱华人PhD妈妈们更牛掰,自己看着办吧
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-09 16:51

本华人PhD大妈第一时间给孩子打了疫苗。我认识的其他PhD爸妈也都一样积极。
当然了,在华人上我这样的是要被骂鼠妈妈的。搞不好马上就会有反疫苗先锋跳出来诅咒我跟我的孩子。
我只希望不给孩子打疫苗的能尽量给孩子戴好口罩,毕竟新冠病毒对儿童的长期影响也很不明确。
splicing
哈哈,是这样的,其实就算不打, 得了新冠也没什么,身边已经有4个中国小朋友得了,低烧乏力,几天休息就好了.....刚想起来是6个,其中一家中国教会的小兄弟俩一起得了,父母反倒是没事
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-09 16:55

最近好像大家都不太讨论新冠以后对肺的永久损失了?是现在已经证明只要症状不明显,就没有所谓的permanent damage了嘛?
lbff
身边医生护士的孩子都是最早打的,因为他们的工作接触到病毒的概率更高
你我对面不相识
MIT Scientist on Criticizing COVID Vaccines: You Have to be Careful Because You Could be Eliminated
"I'm Not an Anti-vaxxer. I'm Not a Republican, I'm Not a Democrat.
I Just Happen to Be a Scientist That Challenges the Current Narrative That Dominates Public Health Policies Around the World and In the U.S. And In Israel.
I Can Tell You That I Know Many Mainstream Scientists and Medical Professionals, Who Similar to Me, Think That the Current Narrative Is Extreme and Wrong.
But Very Few of Them Are Willing to Speak Up.
And I'm Not Sure I Can Blame Them, Because Any Attempt to Deviate from The Narrative Today Is Faced with A Wall of Hostility, Rejection, And Even Elimination from The Government, Including Funding Agencies, From Public Media, And Worst of All, From the Scientific Community Itself."
Dr. Levi Then States That a Colleague of His at MIT Who Is a Member of The National Academy of Engineering Told Him:
"You Have to Be Careful, Because You Can Be Eliminated."
g
gatobarb
前两天好像不是有看到类似的关于mRNA的吗?
gatobarb 发表于 2021-11-09 19:49

转一下,我不太懂
-------------------
Spike Protein Goes to Nucleus and Impairs DNA Repair (In-Vitro Study)
https://youtu.be/-SYL-iU0E9Q [ 链接:youtu.be/-SYL-iU0E9Q ]
"SARS-CoV-2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro - PubMed"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/ [ 链接:pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/ ]
--------------------- 意思是全长S protein跟hiv有差不多的能力破坏免疫系统。 用的灭活疫苗下的结论。 尼玛这下子只有NVAX有希望了。
-----------------------
这里有篇类似的,貌似灭活疫苗也不靠谱。
Here, we report, besides generation of neutralizing antibodies, consistent alterations in hemoglobin A1c, serum sodium and potassium levels, coagulation profiles, and renal functions in healthy volunteers after vaccination with an inactivated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. Similar changes had also been reported in COVID-19 patients, suggesting that vaccination mimicked an infection.
Single-cell mRNA sequencing (scRNA-seq) of peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) before and 28 days after the first inoculation also revealed consistent alterations in gene expression of many different immune cell types.
Reduction of CD8+ T cells and increase in classic monocyte contents were exemplary. Moreover, scRNA-seq revealed increased NF-κB signaling and reduced type I interferon responses, which were confirmed by biological assays and also had been reported to occur after SARS-CoV-2 infection with aggravating symptoms.
Altogether, our study recommends additional caution when vaccinating people with pre-existing clinical conditions, including diabetes, electrolyte imbalances, renal dysfunction, and coagulation disorders.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3 [ 链接:www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3 ]
-----------------------------------
灭活, 腺病毒和mRNA都是用的裸体全长S protein, 按这个文章说会损坏adaptive immunity。 Novavax那个particle经过包装处理的,至少看报告是能促生CD8+ T cells, http://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20653-8 [ 链接:www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20653-8 ] 这个东西就是adaptive immunity中介。 当然本人不是搞这行的,门外汉看个热闹。
------------------------------------


y
yxfabroad
我身边护士妈妈对小孩疫苗持观望态度 我们也在观望 应该会打但不想现在就去
SheldonCooper
没有列举什么事实啊。。。
b
brookeyang
MIT Scientist on Criticizing COVID Vaccines: You Have to be Careful Because You Could be Eliminated
"I'm Not an Anti-vaxxer. I'm Not a Republican, I'm Not a Democrat.
I Just Happen to Be a Scientist That Challenges the Current Narrative That Dominates Public Health Policies Around the World and In the U.S. And In Israel.
I Can Tell You That I Know Many Mainstream Scientists and Medical Professionals, Who Similar to Me, Think That the Current Narrative Is Extreme and Wrong.
But Very Few of Them Are Willing to Speak Up.
And I'm Not Sure I Can Blame Them, Because Any Attempt to Deviate from The Narrative Today Is Faced with A Wall of Hostility, Rejection, And Even Elimination from The Government, Including Funding Agencies, From Public Media, And Worst of All, From the Scientific Community Itself."
Dr. Levi Then States That a Colleague of His at MIT Who Is a Member of The National Academy of Engineering Told Him:
"You Have to Be Careful, Because You Can Be Eliminated."
你我对面不相识 发表于 2021-11-09 20:44

These statements came from nowhere, at least not from any trust worthy source. Everyone will be eliminated after all, no exception.
流木
自己判断吧,华人觉得自己有点文化的什么生物博士化学博士的,都在等着别人家孩子打趴下,其实我办公室也有另外两个医生妈妈还特意请假了半天,说要去学区指定日带孩子打疫苗去, 我也不知道到底是医生想得更通透,还是咱华人PhD妈妈们更牛掰,自己看着办吧
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-09 16:51


这是你自己判断的吧?恰恰是有专业训练的人才不会像某些没文化的人一样相信和散播疫苗阴谋论。对疫苗持反对态度的,有几个是懂行的?往往是越不懂越相信那些狗屁不通的逻辑。没事别往科学女PhD身上泼脏水
b
brookeyang
转一下,我不太懂
-------------------
Spike Protein Goes to Nucleus and Impairs DNA Repair (In-Vitro Study)
https://youtu.be/-SYL-iU0E9Q [ 链接:youtu.be/-SYL-iU0E9Q ]
"SARS-CoV-2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro - PubMed"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/ [ 链接:pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/ ]
--------------------- 意思是全长S protein跟hiv有差不多的能力破坏免疫系统。 用的灭活疫苗下的结论。 尼玛这下子只有NVAX有希望了。
-----------------------
这里有篇类似的,貌似灭活疫苗也不靠谱。
Here, we report, besides generation of neutralizing antibodies, consistent alterations in hemoglobin A1c, serum sodium and potassium levels, coagulation profiles, and renal functions in healthy volunteers after vaccination with an inactivated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. Similar changes had also been reported in COVID-19 patients, suggesting that vaccination mimicked an infection.
Single-cell mRNA sequencing (scRNA-seq) of peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) before and 28 days after the first inoculation also revealed consistent alterations in gene expression of many different immune cell types.
Reduction of CD8+ T cells and increase in classic monocyte contents were exemplary. Moreover, scRNA-seq revealed increased NF-κB signaling and reduced type I interferon responses, which were confirmed by biological assays and also had been reported to occur after SARS-CoV-2 infection with aggravating symptoms.
Altogether, our study recommends additional caution when vaccinating people with pre-existing clinical conditions, including diabetes, electrolyte imbalances, renal dysfunction, and coagulation disorders.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3 [ 链接:www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3 ]
-----------------------------------
灭活, 腺病毒和mRNA都是用的裸体全长S protein, 按这个文章说会损坏adaptive immunity。 Novavax那个particle经过包装处理的,至少看报告是能促生CD8+ T cells, http://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20653-8 [ 链接:www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20653-8 ] 这个东西就是adaptive immunity中介。 当然本人不是搞这行的,门外汉看个热闹。
------------------------------------


gatobarb 发表于 2021-11-09 21:43

"意思是全长S protein跟hiv有差不多的能力破坏免疫系统。" Not sure how this conclusion is drawn? cells expressing spike protein should be destroyed by the immune system if the person is not immunity deficient. So even the spike protein interferences with DNA repair are true, it should not be a problem, right?
lehehe123
"意思是全长S protein跟hiv有差不多的能力破坏免疫系统。" Not sure how this conclusion is drawn? cells expressing spike protein should be destroyed by the immune system if the person is not immunity deficient. So even the spike protein interferences with DNA repair are true, it should not be a problem, right?
brookeyang 发表于 2021-11-09 23:18

这个spike protein 估计确实不太好。不太懂疫苗设计,一个mRNA 能翻译多少个spike protein?为什么它能破坏免疫系统?如果体内有大量刺突蛋白会被怎么代谢掉呢?
假设我是曾经感染过病毒的人,那是不是只需要打一针就可以激活杀手t细胞?那就不用再接种第二针避免增加风险? 如果我是曾经多次被病毒暴露的人,那这些t细胞是不是就被完全激活了?再打疫苗会增加多少风险?
v
vergessenlea
回复 44楼xiaowenchun的帖子
国内更是强制执行,不打不让上学。
b
brookeyang
这个spike protein 估计确实不太好。不太懂疫苗设计,一个mRNA 能翻译多少个spike protein?为什么它能破坏免疫系统?如果体内有大量刺突蛋白会被怎么代谢掉呢?
lehehe123 发表于 2021-11-09 23:24

How long mRNA lasts in the body The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines work by introducing mRNA (messenger RNA) into your muscle cells. The cells make copies of the spike protein and the mRNA is quickly degraded (within a few days). The cell breaks the mRNA up into small harmless pieces. mRNA is very fragile; that''''''''s one reason why mRNA vaccines must be so carefully preserved at very low temperatures.
How long spike proteins last in the body The Infectious Disease Society of America (IDSA) estimates that the spike proteins that were generated by COVID-19 vaccines last up to a few weeks [ 链接:www.idsociety.org/covid-19-real-time-learning-network/vaccines/vaccines-information--faq/ ], like other proteins made by the body. The immune system quickly identifies, attacks and destroys the spike proteins because it recognizes them as not part of you. This "learning the enemy" process is how the immune system figures out how to defeat the real coronavirus. It remembers what it saw and when you are exposed to coronavirus in the future it can rapidly mount an effective immune response.  
lehehe123
回复 62楼brookeyang的帖子
谢谢,a few days and a few weeks的范围有多大?再问一下
ilovekids2019
回复 6楼umizumi的帖子
反疫苗反的失心疯了吧,心里咋这么阴暗,觉得打了疫苗的就要死?
sweatyarmpit007
回复 48楼Playdough的帖子
The FDA meeting had a lot of data if you want to see.
b
brookeyang
回复 62楼brookeyang的帖子
谢谢,a few days and a few weeks的范围有多大?再问一下
lehehe123 发表于 2021-11-09 23:45

Maybe you should read specialized articles. I would guess the number of days they stay in person''s system varies, but the amount of protein in one''s body can be tested, just like amount of antibody.
cicicecilia
医生比PhD有机会看到更多数据吗?凭什么她们的判断更可靠?
Playdough 发表于 2021-11-09 20:00

医生是可能被bias,因为他们会听说更多icu的患者故事,他们更清楚医院里患者的接种比例
y
yangsjun
有啥可争的, 想打的就去打, 只要不强制。
westlake
"意思是全长S protein跟hiv有差不多的能力破坏免疫系统。" Not sure how this conclusion is drawn? cells expressing spike protein should be destroyed by the immune system if the person is not immunity deficient. So even the spike protein interferences with DNA repair are true, it should not be a problem, right?
brookeyang 发表于 2021-11-09 23:18

这个胡乱解释论文的我在另一个帖子里头已经揭得很清楚了,那个家伙就念了一段abstract就以为知道真相了,殊不知,abstract里的那句话在全文里没有证据支持。
transient
转我娃一同学的妈妈(儿科医生)写在FB上的:
People have asked me why they should vaccinate their 5-11 year-olds. I’ll start by answering a different, but related question: why am I vaccinating my 9-year old? Answering this question with all the skin in the game that one could possibly have may be more convincing. So please bear in mind that this answer isn’t just from a board-certified pediatrician’s perspective who has been giving advice to patients for more than twenty years on this very topic, but from someone who, like you, would do anything to protect their own child from harm, and who, like you, would never actively choose to subject them to something that would cause them any harm.
I start my answer on the premise that the COVID-19 vaccines are well-studied and safe in the 5-11 age range. In the recent study cited by Pfizer to obtain FDA approval, there were no adverse events whatsoever in any children receiving the vaccine. Period. If this were not the case, and if I thought that the vaccine caused harm, then I wouldn’t be writing this or convincing families in my office to vaccinate their kids. We would be having a different conversation about the risks of the vaccine and the potential benefits. Of course there is always a possibility of a rare vaccine adverse event, but this wasn’t seen in the 5-11 age group that was studied. Some people may be concerned that the vaccine was studied over a 2 month time period and think that there could be long-term side effects. It must be said that no vaccine has been studied for long-term side effects beyond 2 months from administration. The fourteen vaccinations you have already given your child before the age of two do not have long-term side effects, and there is no scientific reason to believe that this vaccine is different. In fact, the National Vaccine Adverse Event Report System (VAERS) only allows you to report a possible side-effect of a vaccine in an immunocompetent individual up until 42 days after immunization. An issue past 42 days is considered unrelated to the vaccine given weeks earlier.
I like to think of mRNA vaccines (the only ones approved for the 18 and under population) as a message delivered to your immune system. Your body “recognizes the message,” and uses this information to mount future protection in case that it meets the virus again in real life. And then the message goes away. It doesn’t stay in your body. It doesn’t have future effects on fertility. Period. Vaccines are like teachers. They teach your immune systems a lesson, and enable our bodies to use this information in the future. The Pfizer vaccine can be considered an excellent teacher. It is very effective at teaching our children’s immune systems, and prevented 91% of symptomatic COVID disease in the recent pediatric studies.
And now I’ll answer some commonly asked questions. Please note that most numbers are referring to the 5-11 age group.
1. I don’t think that COVID-19 is dangerous to young children. Why do we have to vaccinate them?
It is an incorrect premise that COVID-19 is not dangerous to children. Sometimes personal stories are more powerful than statistics, and many people know children who have had mild cases of COVID-19 (thank goodness). But to hear comparatively “good stories” like these, and therefore convince yourself that COVID-19 is never dangerous in children, is problematic and incorrect. If there are 73 million kids in the US, and if every child gets COVID eventually with a death rate of .01%, then that means that 7300 children will die. It is unacceptable to lose this many children (or even one child!) from a vaccine preventable illness. I never trust anyone who says that “ONLY” 94 children between the ages 5-11 have died of COVID-19 (between 1/1/20-10/16/21). If you have to use the word ONLY before quoting the number of children who have died, there is something wrong with you. If your child is the one who dies, it’s 100% for you, and your world is forever changed. In the recent Delta surge, COVID-19 was the #6 cause of death in the 5-11 age group. Not to be an alarmist or to give a virus much credit, but a virus tries to mutate to increase its chances of surviving. If a virus finds a host, it has a chance to mutate. What’s coming after Delta? I would rather not find out. Vaccinate. Vaccinating will decrease COVID-19’s ability to mutate. Our biggest fear is that a future mutation will be able to evade our vaccine protection, and then we will have lost the best tool we have to turn the COVID-19 Pandemic into an Endemic virus that we can “live with.”
I’m probably preaching to the choir on this one, but just a reminder that even though children (thank goodness) are less likely to die from COVID, they can and do develop the debilitating long-hauler syndrome or dangerous Multi-system Inflammatory Syndrome. Vaccinate.
2. Why do I have to vaccine my child in order to protect an adult?
I don’t think it’s fair for my child to have to do this. We’ve heard over and over throughout the pandemic that some protective strategies help protect individuals, and some strategies are intended to protect the community. I find it disheartening that we have come to a point as a nation where we actively have to convince people to protect others. Immunocompromised individuals, such as patients who have cancer, or may have a disease such as Crohn’s or Rheumatoid Arthritis and are on medications that suppress their own immune systems, do not always receive full protection from the COVID-19 vaccine. Although it is rare, some vaccinated adults and elderly have still become very sick (and died) when contracting COVID-19 (although booster shots should help prevent this). I sometimes use this reasoning when advising families to get the Varicella vaccine. Varivax is an example of a vaccine that not only benefits the individual, but also offers some benefits to OTHER people in the community. One reason to give your child the COVID-19 vaccine is to protect others. Vaccinate. We ask parents and grandparents of newborns to make sure that they get the Flu and Pertussis vaccines. The idea of vaccinating to protect others is not new.
3. I heard that if you get the vaccine, you can still get COVID. So how is this helping decrease community spread?
I appreciate that it is hard for some people to understand that medicine is also an art. Medicine is not black and white. If someone makes a statement like the above, they are likely following political blogs and not getting their information from physicians. But put most accurately and simplistically: If you are vaccinated, you are LESS likely to get COVID, and IF you get COVID while vaccinated, you are less likely to spread it. Viral shedding time in vaccinated patients is significantly decreased -- unvaccinated people can spread disease for much longer than a vaccinated person can. Unvaccinated people may also spread a higher viral load, although this is still being studied. VACCINATION IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT MITIGATION STRATEGY WE HAVE. THE MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINATED, THE BETTER. Remember this. We’ll come back to it soon. And just a warning to please be careful of people (without medical training) who have strong alternative views on COVID-19 vaccinations. They likely have searched very hard to find “medical experts” who support their opinions. The American Board of Pediatrics recently stated that physicians who are spreading misinformation to the public during a time of public health emergency are unethical and dangerous, and that any such behavior would be subject to disciplinary actions, including revoking a medical license. I’m all for doing research to make an informed decision, but in this day of Dr. Google, please be careful where you receive your information.
4. My child had COVID. Do I still need to vaccinate?
Yes. We are just 18 months into the pandemic, and doctors do not have all the answers. (Be wary of anyone who thinks that doctors have answers, but are withholding them for personal benefit. Doctors don’t do this!). We don’t know how long you are protected after natural disease. This reminds me of families who wish to check their MMR titers instead of getting the kindergarten boosters. You may be protected at the moment we draw your child’s blood, but I can’t promise what will happen down the road. And back to COVID, we don’t know how well antibody levels correlate with clinical protection. Since so much is unknown, I do not recommend playing Russian roulette with your child.
5. I just read everything above, and I’m still not convinced.
So this takes me to maybe my most compelling argument of why I recommend the COVID-19 vaccine for children ages 5-11. (If you are reading this and have an unvaccinated 12+ year-old, hopefully I am reaching you too). The above picture of my 9 year-old in a Halloween mask is cute and creative. For her 4th grade Halloween party (which I happened to organize), the children all decorated masks, and I thought that I came up with the best idea ever that should be done for years to come. If you have ever been a class mom, you know the pressure we feel trying to come up with a creative class party. I thought I hit the jackpot. But then I thought about it more, and I realized that I hope this is the last time our kids ever decorate masks for Halloween. I want (just like you all want) to see our kid’s faces again. I know that teachers are struggling reading their student’s facial expressions under the masks. I am worried about long-term effects on social development. Don’t get me wrong, I prefer in-person school as opposed to virtual. I am grateful that a little piece of fabric (or if you are my child, a KN-95) is allowing for in-person school. By no means am I saying that my priority is to unmask the children - that is a political statement. Rather, I am hoping that in the not so far away future (don’t ask me when, my crystal ball broke), we can start talking about “off ramps” from COVID that are safe and medically, rather than politically, motivated. I am very fortunate that my state and school district have listened to the science, resulting in very few interruptions in our school year so far. I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT VACCINATION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT STRATEGY TO FIGHT THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC AND TO HELP US ENTER THE NEXT NORMAL. Kids have lost so much: they’ve missed school, had virtual celebrations, skipped celebrations, missed sports seasons, cancelled senior proms, school shows cancelled, graduations cancelled, gotten sick, been hospitalized, are now living with long-term complications. And, yes, some have died, much too young. Many have lost a parent or grandparent. Vaccinate. I will be vaccinating my own 9 year-old as soon as those vaccines are available because I know that it is safe, and I am hoping to help her and the children in my area so that we can soon have that conversation about seeing our children’s smiles again and take steps to actually make it happen safely. High vaccination rates and thoughtful testing strategies can be used in conjunction with the community COVID numbers in order to help our kids not compromise any more of their childhood.
大勺
回复 6楼umizumi的帖子
反疫苗反的失心疯了吧,心里咋这么阴暗,觉得打了疫苗的就要死?
ilovekids2019 发表于 2021-11-09 23:46

re 这些反疫苗的,每天上蹿下跳的,她们以为打的是毒药吗?打完立马挂?
anai2017
lz家有小孩吗?你是提倡打疫苗的吗?
Ziggyy
回复 1楼桂圆肉的帖子
特别理解楼主。有些人就是以“唱反调”为乐,盲目反对任何主流,是实质上的唯心主义。疫苗以及其他科学发现的伟大之处就在于它们只发挥客观作用,并不会因为有人反对它而失效,即便对那些反对它的人。
桂圆肉
lz家有小孩吗?你是提倡打疫苗的吗?
anai2017 发表于 2021-11-10 09:01

楼主家有小孩,楼主工作是一线每天接触病人也多,圣诞和春假都订了出国游,综上几个原因应该会去给孩子打疫苗
大隐隐于市
"意思是全长S protein跟hiv有差不多的能力破坏免疫系统。" Not sure how this conclusion is drawn? cells expressing spike protein should be destroyed by the immune system if the person is not immunity deficient. So even the spike protein interferences with DNA repair are true, it should not be a problem, right?
brookeyang 发表于 2021-11-09 23:18

所以如果身体能产生足够抗体,把挂着spike protein的细胞都杀掉应该就没问题?那如果没杀全呢?所以取决于人体自身能力?是这样吗
g
gatobarb
所以如果身体能产生足够抗体,把挂着spike protein的细胞都杀掉应该就没问题?那如果没杀全呢?所以取决于人体自身能力?是这样吗
大隐隐于市 发表于 2021-11-10 09:38

如果是普通细胞大概差不离。
人体有些细胞是不可再生的。如果杀掉了就恢复不了了。
秋意浓
我们公司自从发文给打疫苗的人发钱后 很多一直没打的也打了
bh_833
re 这些反疫苗的,每天上蹿下跳的,她们以为打的是毒药吗?打完立马挂?
大勺 发表于 2021-11-10 08:57

反疫苗的就是怎么希望的,打完立马挂,好证明众人皆醉我独醒。不然怎么会说出什么羊群跳崖的恶毒蠢话
桂圆肉
我们公司自从发文给打疫苗的人发钱后 很多一直没打的也打了

秋意浓 发表于 2021-11-10 09:54

哈哈,果然是钱字当头,利为重
用户需知
有人就是这么蠢,一件事情该不该做要看别人做不做:做的人多了就觉得这件事是好事。美国现在大部分孩子出生时都没有爹,你要不要也未婚生子啊?
桂圆肉
有人就是这么蠢,一件事情该不该做要看别人做不做:做的人多了就觉得这件事是好事。美国现在大部分孩子出生时都没有爹,你要不要也未婚生子啊?
用户需知 发表于 2021-11-10 10:10

没错,美国现在最流行的是一个孩子生出来,三个爹争着认还搞不清,这个绝对够小众够酷,要不你也来生一个?独立特行彰显一下你有脑子能独立思考?
用户需知
没错,美国现在最流行的是一个孩子生出来,三个爹争着认还搞不清,这个绝对够小众够酷,要不你也来生一个?独立特行彰显一下你有脑子能独立思考?
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-10 10:12

我没说过小众就好哦。你可是说大家打你也打。毫无逻辑性,更加证明了你的蠢。
桂圆肉
我没说过小众就好哦。你可是说大家打你也打。毫无逻辑性,更加证明了你的蠢。
用户需知 发表于 2021-11-10 10:14

你不蠢,你们家孩子大不了得了新冠就内什么呗
b
brookeyang
所以如果身体能产生足够抗体,把挂着spike protein的细胞都杀掉应该就没问题?那如果没杀全呢?所以取决于人体自身能力?是这样吗
大隐隐于市 发表于 2021-11-10 09:38

所以以不建议免疫系统缺陷的人打啊。疫苗打进肌肉,会引起病原反应,应该是在injection site附近产生大量s protein并诱发抗体产生。然后mRNA会很快被降解掉,S protein也会被人体免疫系统分解。产生的抗体会在体内出现。mRNA疫苗至于会不会进入脑细胞,其它器官细胞不清楚。但是感染了covid 病毒后,s protein可能会进入大脑造成长期危害的。
桂圆肉
我没说过小众就好哦。你可是说大家打你也打。毫无逻辑性,更加证明了你的蠢。
用户需知 发表于 2021-11-10 10:14

另外警告你,不要这么嘴贱,P大的破事儿就出言不逊,给自己家孩子树立一个好的形象吧
掰叨叨
国内给小孩的灭活疫苗也批准了,但是最好别打。
方舟子推特:同济大学附属医院的一篇论文,健康人接种了中国新冠灭活疫苗以后,全身出现了类似于被新冠感染的病理性变化,而且身体免疫力反而降低了。我猜这篇论文投稿前没有被领导审过。 https://mobile.twitter.com/fangshimin/status/1457930696614309889
xiaowenchun 发表于 2021-11-09 19:31

灭活疫苗理论上应该更安全啊。我爸妈国内打得疫苗,一点反应都没有。
掰叨叨
本华人PhD大妈第一时间给孩子打了疫苗。我认识的其他PhD爸妈也都一样积极。
当然了,在华人上我这样的是要被骂鼠妈妈的。搞不好马上就会有反疫苗先锋跳出来诅咒我跟我的孩子。
我只希望不给孩子打疫苗的能尽量给孩子戴好口罩,毕竟新冠病毒对儿童的长期影响也很不明确。
兔子过敏 发表于 2021-11-09 20:13

我周围有第一时间带孩子打的,也有暂时观望的。这些父母都是打过新冠疫苗的,所以不存在反疫苗的说法。在我看来,戴好口罩比打疫苗有用。
果小小
有人就是这么蠢,一件事情该不该做要看别人做不做:做的人多了就觉得这件事是好事。美国现在大部分孩子出生时都没有爹,你要不要也未婚生子啊?
用户需知 发表于 2021-11-10 10:10

要理解其实大多数人脑子都是不够用,经典行为就是跟风随大流,完全不具备自己搜集信息独立思考判断的能力。这种人也是最容易被煽动和忽悠的人群,这个版上就很多这样的人。
桂圆肉
我周围有第一时间带孩子打的,也有暂时观望的。这些父母都是打过新冠疫苗的,所以不存在反疫苗的说法。在我看来,戴好口罩比打疫苗有用。
掰叨叨 发表于 2021-11-10 10:32

我周围有老中给自己高中生孩子打好疫苗的,然后俩口子裸奔的,俩人都没基础病, 坚决不打疫苗, 这个怎么解释呢?
桂圆肉
要理解其实大多数人脑子都是不够用,经典行为就是跟风随大流,完全不具备自己搜集信息独立思考判断的能力。这种人也是最容易被煽动和忽悠的人群,这个版上就很多这样的人。
果小小 发表于 2021-11-10 10:33

纯粹好奇问一下,你支持六四吗?你支持LGBT吗?你支持AA吗?你们家孩子每年打flu shot吗?
掰叨叨
我周围有老中给自己高中生孩子打好疫苗的,然后俩口子裸奔的,俩人都没基础病, 坚决不打疫苗, 这个怎么解释呢?
桂圆肉 发表于 2021-11-10 10:35

说明打疫苗可能是高中生自己的选择啊。
stray_bird
准备年检问问医生,听听医生的建议。个人觉得在都戴口罩的情况下,现在小小孩benifit vs risk不明显。但是如果孩子们都开始打了疫苗,出去玩,口罩令放松了。我也会给孩子打,因为在没达到herd immunity,不想比起打了疫苗的更加vulnerable。我自己疫苗出来第一时间就打了,一点不犹豫的。大学和医院的同事也基本都是第一时间打了,PhD,MD都是的,也不存在医生比科研打的更勤快的说法。
bh_833
要理解其实大多数人脑子都是不够用,经典行为就是跟风随大流,完全不具备自己搜集信息独立思考判断的能力。这种人也是最容易被煽动和忽悠的人群,这个版上就很多这样的人。
果小小 发表于 2021-11-10 10:33


看大部分人的选择和支持他们选择的证据也是独立收集证据的方式,不像你们专门收集偏门的、断章取义的、某个人说的那些符合你们想象的“证据”。还有,动不动说别人傻没脑,你们急个啥,有证据讲证据,人身攻击谁不会
桂圆肉
准备年检问问医生,听听医生的建议。个人觉得在都戴口罩的情况下,现在小小孩benifit vs risk不明显。但是如果孩子们都开始打了疫苗,出去玩,口罩令放松了。我也会给孩子打,因为在没达到herd immunity,不想比起打了疫苗的更加vulnerable。我自己疫苗出来第一时间就打了,一点不犹豫的。大学和医院的同事也基本都是第一时间打了,PhD,MD都是的,也不存在医生比科研打的更勤快的说法。
stray_bird 发表于 2021-11-10 10:39

我们正好年检完刚,医生是肯定不会跟你交底说实话的,比较打太极,怕担责任吧, 但是她说她自己的孩子打了
Wl8418
MIT Scientist on Criticizing COVID Vaccines: You Have to be Careful Because You Could be Eliminated
"I'm Not an Anti-vaxxer. I'm Not a Republican, I'm Not a Democrat.
I Just Happen to Be a Scientist That Challenges the Current Narrative That Dominates Public Health Policies Around the World and In the U.S. And In Israel.
I Can Tell You That I Know Many Mainstream Scientists and Medical Professionals, Who Similar to Me, Think That the Current Narrative Is Extreme and Wrong.
But Very Few of Them Are Willing to Speak Up.
And I'm Not Sure I Can Blame Them, Because Any Attempt to Deviate from The Narrative Today Is Faced with A Wall of Hostility, Rejection, And Even Elimination from The Government, Including Funding Agencies, From Public Media, And Worst of All, From the Scientific Community Itself."
Dr. Levi Then States That a Colleague of His at MIT Who Is a Member of The National Academy of Engineering Told Him:
"You Have to Be Careful, Because You Can Be Eliminated."
你我对面不相识 发表于 2021-11-09 20:44

哈哈
stray_bird
回复 94楼桂圆肉的帖子
这就不是打太极了,就和以前国内医生 生男生女不能说和你说买粉色小衣服一样了。这医生是建议打。
b
brookeyang
From little_raccoon in another thread, good summary...
"不管是疫苗还是病毒感染,用来表达spike protein的细胞肯定会受到伤害,伤害的机制其实不止这一种。疫苗绝大部分会在肌肉细胞和周围的淋巴结内表达,病毒感染先是上呼吸道,然后是下呼吸道和血管内皮什么的。如果是感染的话spike protein会被装配成病毒颗粒继续感染别的细胞,在新的细胞里面继续表达spike protein。如果是疫苗的话spike protein被表达以后挂在细胞表面,等着被APC吞掉切碎呈递抗原,或者被其他途径代谢掉,就不能再进入其他的细胞了。(注意疫苗用的是固定在prefusion状态的spike protein,不能再和受体结合。)"