不知道你们那行业情况,是不是两组同时做一个项目然后并起来,两组是平等的没有先后次序?可以说, Thanks so much for your email. I never realized I'm having a difficulty in XXX or XXX is annoying, but thank you for being straight forward. Guess there's difference between expectations and reality. :D:D:D:D On the project, there are still something to be tweeked. If you don't mind, please upload your team's code first and AA (你老板) and I will finish up ours shortly. Knitnutbyjl 发表于 2021-07-08 16:40
别当软柿子 1. 告诉他你不打算upload code(和你老板通气先),这是你原创,要准备发文章再说其他的。这是行业常规流程,“你不会不了解吧?” 2.告诉他你很enjoy在这里的几年,你说你不明白为什么来的比你晚的他会觉得你不开心,还在transition,“i was thinking you were the one in transition" 3.问他是不是indicate你的英语不好?(这个可以HR投诉他,如果他胆敢说是) 4.明确告诉他你之前生气的原因,别扯东扯西。可以accept apology,但是希望他明白究竟是什么事情,希望以后不要再发生 April4 发表于 2021-07-08 16:35
第一封信直接不理就行了。他不是你老板你有啥义务必须回应?你为啥需要跟任何challenge 你的人解释,defend你自己的qualification? 你只需要向上级像组织证明自己,因为你需要一个career。 但是你需要向路边的流浪汉,车间的工人证明自己吗?在你开始为自己defend 的那一秒,你已经把自己放在他很重要,你必须向他证明自己的lower power status 了。千万不要自降身份。真正强大的人没有这样的焦虑感 如果他有脸当面再提出来,你就玩玩心理游戏。直接说oh I saw your email but cannot help noticing the condescending tone in it 然后就停下来听他回应。不要害怕沉默会尴尬,你要沉住气,让他更尴尬😊 如果他装傻说不是这意思,你只需要直接告诉他很不幸不管intention怎样,这影响关系的负面效果已经产生了。他在啰嗦你只需要重复这点,除此之外不废话。要忍得住尴尬的沉默。最后到他道歉为止。然后高姿态接受道歉,找机会说有事得开溜撤了就好 这次这么警告之后脑子不笨或者欺软怕硬的就知道boundary了。再重复两次,你再去老板那里或者hr。不要第一次就去反而显得你不成熟,小学生跟老师告状似的 zipfile 发表于 2021-07-09 14:52
别当软柿子 1. 告诉他你不打算upload code(和你老板通气先),这是你原创,要准备发文章再说其他的。这是行业常规流程,“你不会不了解吧?” 2.告诉他你很enjoy在这里的几年,你说你不明白为什么来的比你晚的他会觉得你不开心,还在transition,“i was thinking you were the one in transition" 3.问他是不是indicate你的英语不好?(这个可以HR投诉他,如果他胆敢说是) 4.明确告诉他你之前生气的原因,别扯东扯西。可以accept apology,但是希望他明白究竟是什么事情,希望以后不要再发生
This is loud and clear racial discrimination and work environment bully, I suggest you escalate it to your boss and cc HR director, file a formal complain. and Don't even talk to him anymore
不知道你们那行业情况,是不是两组同时做一个项目然后并起来,两组是平等的没有先后次序?可以说, Thanks so much for your email. I never realized I'm having a difficulty in XXX or XXX is annoying, but thank you for being straight forward. Guess there's difference between expectations and reality. :D:D:D:D On the project, there are still something to be tweeked. If you don't mind, please upload your team's code first and AA (你老板) and I will finish up ours shortly.
In western culture, if you have moral ground and fight for yourself hard, everyone will respect you, but if you keep giving in, everyone will think you are weak, and they will be not scared to run you over and over again. So, stand up, fight like hell. it is your territory, tell him fxxk off with a political correct language. You win the fight this time, it will buy you peace for very lone period of time, otherwise, more troubles are down the road.
别当软柿子 1. 告诉他你不打算upload code(和你老板通气先),这是你原创,要准备发文章再说其他的。这是行业常规流程,“你不会不了解吧?” 2.告诉他你很enjoy在这里的几年,你说你不明白为什么来的比你晚的他会觉得你不开心,还在transition,“i was thinking you were the one in transition" 3.问他是不是indicate你的英语不好?(这个可以HR投诉他,如果他胆敢说是) 4.明确告诉他你之前生气的原因,别扯东扯西。可以accept apology,但是希望他明白究竟是什么事情,希望以后不要再发生 April4 发表于 2021-07-08 16:35
In western culture, if you have moral ground and fight for yourself hard, everyone will respect you, but if you keep giving in, everyone will think you are weak, and they will be not scared to run you over and over again. So, stand up, fight like hell. it is your territory, tell him fxxk off with a political correct language. You win the fight this time, it will buy you peace for very lone period of time, otherwise, more troubles are down the road. ATuTuA 发表于 2021-07-08 16:41
This is loud and clear racial discrimination and work environment bully, I suggest you escalate it to your boss and cc HR director, file a formal complain. and Don't even talk to him anymore ATuTuA 发表于 2021-07-08 16:35
This is loud and clear racial discrimination and work environment bully, I suggest you escalate it to your boss and cc HR director, file a formal complain. and Don't even talk to him anymore ATuTuA 发表于 2021-07-08 16:35
要是我,就先跟老板约个时间,再回一封客气但是绝不让步的email: 1, 谢谢你的关心 2 transitioning into the lab,我早就过了transitioning phase,现在full speed 工作呢,你来的时间短一些,对于你的成长,我也很impress, 有什么需要了解的,我在不忙的时候可以帮你。 3.communicating across a language barrier, 你说谢谢你的concern, 我从来没觉得有啥language barrier, communication is my least concern. 4.xxx,is my strength, 我有诸多年经验,有很多practical 经验,有信心handle 跟xxx有关的各种issue,如果你需要帮助,我可以给你一些建议。 5.作为这个个项目的核心开发人员,我对各种dealine可以理解,并且我跟我的老板经常沟通,所以不担心。如果你和另一个谁谁谁,如果在你们做的那块如果需要帮助,我很高兴帮助你们,我们毕竟是一个team 6.share code, 就直说要跟老板商量,因为牵扯到知识产权。 经验上讲,这种人永远不会back down. 他敢不敢真正碰你,取决于你老板挺不挺你。 如果老板不挺,抬脚走人吧。
提供一个draft, 根据情况改。 I can’t accept this non-apology apology. You insulted me yesterday and, to be frank, this manipulative “apology” is a further insult because your condescending tone is everywhere and not acceptable. You just joined the team and had only three years of prior experience with XXX, but you sound like you are the biggest expert already, assuming that I have difficulty transitioning, struggle to communicate with a language barrier and need help in an area where I have had much more experience than you do. I’m especially confused by what you wrote “but I hope you know that we all view you as a part of the team”. If this comes from (BOSS), I would certainly feel being appreciated, but when you say “we” are you putting yourself in the position of (BOSS) so that you are able to represent (BOSS) and evaluate my being part of the team? We work together as a team and it’s crucial to keep a professional working relationship for better productivity. To achieve that, respecting your colleague is very important. Obviously you don’t have a language barrier, but my advice to you is that lack of respect causes not only just communication problems but also worse issues, such as a toxic working environment.
提供一个draft, 根据情况改。 I can’t accept this non-apology apology. You insulted me yesterday and, to be frank, this manipulative “apology” is a further insult because your condescending tone is everywhere and not acceptable. You just joined the team and had only three years of prior experience with XXX, but you sound like you are the biggest expert already, assuming that I have difficulty transitioning, struggle to communicate with a language barrier and need help in an area where I have had much more experience than you do. I’m especially confused by what you wrote “but I hope you know that we all view you as a part of the team”. If this comes from (BOSS), I would certainly feel being appreciated, but when you say “we” are you putting yourself in the position of (BOSS) so that you are able to represent (BOSS) and evaluate my being part of the team? We work together as a team and it’s crucial to keep a professional working relationship for better productivity. To achieve that, respecting your colleague is very important. Obviously you don’t have a language barrier, but my advice to you is that lack of respect causes not only just communication problems but also worse issues, such as a toxic working environment. YTD1Smore 发表于 2021-07-08 17:43
要是我,就先跟老板约个时间,再回一封客气但是绝不让步的email: 1, 谢谢你的关心 2 transitioning into the lab,我早就过了transitioning phase,现在full speed 工作呢,你来的时间短一些,对于你的成长,我也很impress, 有什么需要了解的,我在不忙的时候可以帮你。 3.communicating across a language barrier, 你说谢谢你的concern, 我从来没觉得有啥language barrier, communication is my least concern. 4.xxx,is my strength, 我有诸多年经验,有很多practical 经验,有信心handle 跟xxx有关的各种issue,如果你需要帮助,我可以给你一些建议。 5.作为这个个项目的核心开发人员,我对各种dealine可以理解,并且我跟我的老板经常沟通,所以不担心。如果你和另一个谁谁谁,如果在你们做的那块如果需要帮助,我很高兴帮助你们,我们毕竟是一个team 6.share code, 就直说要跟老板商量,因为牵扯到知识产权。 经验上讲,这种人永远不会back down. 他敢不敢真正碰你,取决于你老板挺不挺你。 如果老板不挺,抬脚走人吧。 卡多司基 发表于 2021-07-08 17:30
提供一个draft, 根据情况改。 I can’t accept this non-apology apology. You insulted me yesterday and, to be frank, this manipulative “apology” is a further insult because your condescending tone is everywhere and not acceptable. You just joined the team and had only three years of prior experience with XXX, but you sound like you are the biggest expert already, assuming that I have difficulty transitioning, struggle to communicate with a language barrier and need help in an area where I have had much more experience than you do. I’m especially confused by what you wrote “but I hope you know that we all view you as a part of the team”. If this comes from (BOSS), I would certainly feel being appreciated, but when you say “we” are you putting yourself in the position of (BOSS) so that you are able to represent (BOSS) and evaluate my being part of the team? We work together as a team and it’s crucial to keep a professional working relationship for better productivity. To achieve that, respecting your colleague is very important. Obviously you don’t have a language barrier, but my advice to you is that lack of respect causes not only just communication problems but also worse issues, such as a toxic working environment. YTD1Smore 发表于 2021-07-08 17:43
我的老天,这真是刷新了我对职场烂人的见识,这如果不回击的话你就等着被骑在脖子上吧 他信息里说某某喜欢给你们设deadline,说IT很差,你就把这信息发给那个某某,另发给IT,说你不知道原来烂人在这方面有concerns,你来pass on 这个信息希望对他们有借鉴,同时单独发给人事,就他的这种bully语言和对你的种族歧视提出正式complain,这个抄送你老板,用语要坚定,要求严肃处理,并且再单独跟你老板表示以后你不想和这个人合作,从现在开始不要跟这个人联系,不要回复他的信息或者email 不知道你们什么单位,但不管什么单位,现在的环境下种族歧视都是大忌,你去闹大,太过分了这个,简直是明目张胆种族歧视
提供一个draft, 根据情况改。 I can’t accept this non-apology apology. You insulted me yesterday and, to be frank, this manipulative “apology” is a further insult because your condescending tone is everywhere and not acceptable. You just joined the team and had only three years of prior experience with XXX, but you sound like you are the biggest expert already, assuming that I have difficulty transitioning, struggle to communicate with a language barrier and need help in an area where I have had much more experience than you do. I’m especially confused by what you wrote “but I hope you know that we all view you as a part of the team”. If this comes from (BOSS), I would certainly feel being appreciated, but when you say “we” are you putting yourself in the position of (BOSS) so that you are able to represent (BOSS) and evaluate my being part of the team? We work together as a team and it’s crucial to keep a professional working relationship for better productivity. To achieve that, respecting your colleague is very important. Obviously you don’t have a language barrier, but my advice to you is that lack of respect causes not only just communication problems but also worse issues, such as a toxic working environment. YTD1Smore 发表于 2021-07-08 17:43
不要这样回 这封一看就是non native English 吵架一样的信是落人口实;本来他那封信语气condescending对你有利 这封一出你们半斤八两
提供一个draft, 根据情况改。 I can’t accept this non-apology apology. You insulted me yesterday and, to be frank, this manipulative “apology” is a further insult because your condescending tone is everywhere and not acceptable. You just joined the team and had only three years of prior experience with XXX, but you sound like you are the biggest expert already, assuming that I have difficulty transitioning, struggle to communicate with a language barrier and need help in an area where I have had much more experience than you do. I’m especially confused by what you wrote “but I hope you know that we all view you as a part of the team”. If this comes from (BOSS), I would certainly feel being appreciated, but when you say “we” are you putting yourself in the position of (BOSS) so that you are able to represent (BOSS) and evaluate my being part of the team? We work together as a team and it’s crucial to keep a professional working relationship for better productivity. To achieve that, respecting your colleague is very important. Obviously you don’t have a language barrier, but my advice to you is that lack of respect causes not only just communication problems but also worse issues, such as a toxic working environment. YTD1Smore 发表于 2021-07-08 17:43
🔥 最新回帖
感觉这样的回复有点自找麻烦。阴阳怪气的何必呢?不回复也是一种很有力的回复。
我觉得没有必要跟烂人费这种口舌,不讨好,也不会解决任何问题。
👍👍 合适!恰当!
那么那封关于share code的邮件呢?也建议忽略吗?还有是不是应该跟老板提一提这前前后后的事儿?
单纯是想请教一下。
🛋️ 沙发板凳
现在两个美国同事都把我和另一个印度同事当成他俩下属,虽然这两个美国同事只会一些皮毛的东西。
我一直都是不卑不亢的,只是现在这个穷追着要我代码的事不知道怎么处理。
他整天跟老板说我们是一个team,我的代码要公开,可我辛辛苦苦弄的新算法,他要是跟他另一个老板发出来,我才要哭死。
如果他有歧视语言,他email正好作为证据。document everything and report to HR. 闹大了,他反而不敢怎么样。
管他呢,你只有一个老板,就是发你钱的人才有权力指派你
突然想到只狗在尿尿 mark territory 。。。
不睬他最凶。
妹妹可以告诉他,你也有计划想发表这个代码(个人或和别人合作),所以不能和他分享。这个发表计划也没有deadline, 你可以永久work on that plan.
他现在的说法就是我们发文章是一起的,可是我不信任这种有两个实验室的同事,要是他们从另一个实验室发出个类似的算法来,把我和我老板加成coauthor,我到时候真是无话可说。
天,我看到他的信息的时候,当时的感觉就是你描述的。
对 不要理会,直接约老板
Just tell him team is not equal to coauthor,period. 你这篇已经写完了, 他不可能作为coauthor. 下一篇可以合作。
我看到信息的时候立即觉得这太condescending
不要share你的代码,就说正在写文章,发表之前不share (你就现在开始写draft,不管投不投先写出来)
不要回这个信,直接跟你老板去谈,跟你老板说
发email给你老板,加上这个人,把他说的复制在上面,然后问老板怎么办,任何事情都要CC老板, 别人问你,就说请问老板,以后只要不是老板委派,其他人无权指派你,记住这一点, 而且告诉他工作的事情请email, cc 所有相关的人员,
Thanks so much for your email. I never realized I'm having a difficulty in XXX or XXX is annoying, but thank you for being straight forward. Guess there's difference between expectations and reality. :D:D:D:D
On the project, there are still something to be tweeked. If you don't mind, please upload your team's code first and AA (你老板) and I will finish up ours shortly.
绝对不能相信这种人。。。从你写的内容来看他通篇都是spin 到时候发文章还不知道要怎么撕逼呢
谢谢给了这么多建议,这个美国同事无时无刻不在明褒实贬,表面上好像说的都是好话,知道这种话很难投诉成功。
什么western culture啊,就是烂人culture 中国也有人善被人欺,得寸进尺,恩将仇报这些。。。
没关系 你也怼回去 另外给HR看看他们会知道。
如果有好的美国朋友,职场经验丰富的也可以聊聊。
这种人,必须怼回去,绝对不能退让
另外,一个怼的模式就是 你这么这么说(放他原话,比如language barrier),让我觉得这样这样(比如你是在indicate我英语不好)
把他的假脸撕下来,他要有胆子承认,你就去告HR;没胆子承认说不是这个意思,你就说,好,那希望以后不要再这样说了。
你说的对,要把假脸撕下来。如果他发的是邮件,我可能会回复外加copy老板。这是slack信息单独发给我的,把老板加进来显得有点小题大做。你看他发的信息就是改了改去,当然我已经截图了。
RE 这个。
当然不交,你反问他有什么share 给大家的嘛 直接告诉他,发表了自然就是和全人类share的。你同事有爱心不?
公司的话,我已经这么做了,实验室比较装,以我对这个地方的了解,暂时这招还不行。
他就是先分享了,所以才逼我。实际他这种画图的代码,是我我也愿意分享。可惜老板和很多人是纯实验背景,很多时候也分不清代码的含金量。
实验室你就理所当然的不share源代码了。。。
跟你老板说,如果对方也要用这部分算法,那么对方发的paper必须有你的coauthor 双方都同意的话,你丢一个编译过的二进制文件发过去。。。反正就是不给源代码
就是这种感觉,表面假装友好其实句句话是挤兑和瞧不起,bully。
对对,可以编译了给他们用,这样就可以不给源代码了。
那就给他share 一坨💩好了
哈哈,不要意气用事,拿出手的是一坨屎,老板脸上会好看嘛
1, 谢谢你的关心 2 transitioning into the lab,我早就过了transitioning phase,现在full speed 工作呢,你来的时间短一些,对于你的成长,我也很impress, 有什么需要了解的,我在不忙的时候可以帮你。 3.communicating across a language barrier, 你说谢谢你的concern, 我从来没觉得有啥language barrier, communication is my least concern. 4.xxx,is my strength, 我有诸多年经验,有很多practical 经验,有信心handle 跟xxx有关的各种issue,如果你需要帮助,我可以给你一些建议。 5.作为这个个项目的核心开发人员,我对各种dealine可以理解,并且我跟我的老板经常沟通,所以不担心。如果你和另一个谁谁谁,如果在你们做的那块如果需要帮助,我很高兴帮助你们,我们毕竟是一个team 6.share code, 就直说要跟老板商量,因为牵扯到知识产权。
经验上讲,这种人永远不会back down. 他敢不敢真正碰你,取决于你老板挺不挺你。 如果老板不挺,抬脚走人吧。
谢谢新词汇,每次遇到这种事,我都很想错误地使用PUA这个词,现在我知道如何正确定义了。非常感谢!
那你就和老板说清楚,如果分享出去会有怎么样的后果,往最严重的说
同时也标明,这是你的底线和原则。自己写的东西,自己有权利,希望老板能支持你,晓之以理,动之以情
gaslighting就是PUA!
这种人,感觉人品不怎么样,不能相信,支持lz的想法和做法,希望你的老板也能支持你
你要不直接约谈HR,说这个人打算bully 你
如果你们同事中有欧洲来的白人,母语也不是英语,特别是英语口音重的法国人意大利人,但这人却没有点出language barrier,那就更有证据告他种族歧视。
这个语气太重了,tone it down点会好很多。
”经验上讲,这种人永远不会back down. 他敢不敢真正碰你,取决于你老板挺不挺你“。 多谢这句话,我要记住。
真不知道怎么感谢了,真是手把手教了。我会根据另一个楼的建议改得再”政治正确“/语气轻一些。
他信息里说某某喜欢给你们设deadline,说IT很差,你就把这信息发给那个某某,另发给IT,说你不知道原来烂人在这方面有concerns,你来pass on 这个信息希望对他们有借鉴,同时单独发给人事,就他的这种bully语言和对你的种族歧视提出正式complain,这个抄送你老板,用语要坚定,要求严肃处理,并且再单独跟你老板表示以后你不想和这个人合作,从现在开始不要跟这个人联系,不要回复他的信息或者email
不知道你们什么单位,但不管什么单位,现在的环境下种族歧视都是大忌,你去闹大,太过分了这个,简直是明目张胆种族歧视
回复他并且cc 老板。 就说不明白他为什么这么说。你觉得offended. 你在这工作N年了,作的很开心,很骄傲项目核心部分的工作,没觉得这个项目frustrating. 说如果他技术上听不懂你可以多给他解释,但老板和其他合作者们从来没有人说你语言交流是个问题,问他他为啥pick on 你说你有language barrier.
你代码不交影响工作吗?像别人说的compile 了再发不行吗?你不需要解释你为啥不发,因为你说的理由比如怕他发表没有证据不好拿出来说。如果不影响工作的话他得解释他为啥非要这个。 跟人吵架不能被牵着鼻子走。人家说你这样那样你要解释就被人占了上风了。不要落入圈套。要转过来让他解释。
这个同学说的对,把事搞大,把别的同事拉到你这边。就说他对与timeline 有concern的话应该做个team player, 提高沟通能力,跟某某直接商讨,positive and constructive
我还是觉得不要直接这么回
不要engage他真的。。。只要你老板挺你,你完全可以不回,有什么值得回的吗,回就是开撕。不如直接开撕。
同意,这封信收着当证据就好,回是浪费时间,还可能无意中留下把柄,他可以说被你hurt了,啊哈哈。
楼主有时间赶紧把要发的paper写了,越拖越被动,要是project被影响,老板也烦你多事,你就掉坑里了。
继续攒证据,找其他受害人,准备好了再出手。
+1,和他没什么要说的或者解释的,他没有资格要求你做任何事,你也没义务教他怎么做人。直接上报HR和找老板,分别谈一下。
如果老板公平或者支持LZ自然很好。万一老板罩着他想培养他呢。 歧视那部分语言应该报告给HR 并CC老板。这样老板也不敢太偏心。
不要这样回 这封一看就是non native English 吵架一样的信是落人口实;本来他那封信语气condescending对你有利 这封一出你们半斤八两
要是在公司,我是绝不会自己下场撕,现在主要是老板就是实验室的PI,基本不想理会这些事的那种。说实话我自己回了,也容易让人抓把柄,所以才上来问。
没想好怎么办,所以没有行动,不想行动了又后悔
RE
不回他会得寸进尺的。应该报HR。
跑题问一下,楼主你这是从公司回去学校了么,好像跟大多数人是反的?工资会比在公司的时候少吗
我是说不要直接回信,那个回信说实话写的有点问题
而且老实说根本没必要一条一条的掰扯,还是直接跟老板沟通,直接跟hr沟通。。。
不会的 老美这方面很懂
是的 公司有专门这方面的培训 lz可以告诉自己的老板
lz你没开玩笑吧?!你居然要把那个充满阿里味的chinglish改改发给同事?同意楼里面说的,发出去你和那个同事半斤八两了。这事本来就该你老板出面解决,他不出面在那儿面你也有manage up去push他。如果发现老板就是潜在乐见别的实验室过来分一杯羹(毕竟你由于信息差不一定知道这中间老板和其他实验室有什么利益交换),那你的事情就无解了。别说什么这是你原创代码了,这个如果是在公司/学校环境下develop出来的,今天公司/学校哪怕把你开掉,不给你任何credit要你交出代码都是没有任何毛病的。至于hr,你说同事的邮件怎么insult你,只要同事能有证据证明你有language barrier,你也基本告不成功的。(你说的英语被认为是本地人多半是人家随口夸人不嫌事多,你当真就可怕了)。论坛这么多年类似你这种,比你还过分的职场歧视告到hr那面的,根据别的lz过来的更新,还没几个成功过。(虽然楼里面一个个“###这么做告hr他死定了”很解气的样子)
先找老板,然后直接HR report。email 都是实打实的证据,所以轻易不要回email直接开撕。这是落人口实。一定要回email的话, 你可以平心静气的告诉他你和老板的决定,而且已经汇报HR
语气太重。这种撕逼,对方越混蛋,我们自己越要冷静,写的东西越要objective,要拿出去给人看挑不出毛病-不要给对方任何机会挑错
所以才没有告hr啊,知道也不会成功,主要是要怎么工作下去才是重点吧,这人一天一堆信息没完没了的。不是说要直接用另外那位层主写的,而是感谢别人真心的帮助。要是回复了就解决问题了, 我不是已经回了吗?