足够多人打疫苗可以形成群体免疫确实是公卫观点,引用一位县公职人员针对delta variant 在社区传播的评论. 他们已经有过几次outbreak, 但据说在14天内就遏制住了。 In Marin County, which has been widely recognized for its high rate of vaccinations, with more than 83 percent of eligible residents fully vaccinated, health officials confirmed that the Delta variant had been detected there too. A sampling of recent cases showed about 65 percent stemmed from the Delta variant. Figures showed that in the past 14 days, the county has seen 44 new cases overall and officials noted that the 65 percent represented just samples returned in the past month. Marin County Health Public Information Officer Laine Hendricks told KTVU that while there were still residents who have not been vaccinated, the high rate of those who have received their shots were clearly providing protections to the entire community. "Thankfully, because of Marin’s growing vaccination rate, where we do detect the presence of the variant, the cases die out versus spreading, because we’re beginning to see the benefits of community immunity," Hendricks said. "The message at the end of the day? Vaccines have proven their effectiveness and this is yet another reason for residents to consider vaccination."
不过前几天我看到一篇MIT tech review的文章,说pfizer其实正在研究疫苗对于阻断传播的有效率有多高,2月份开始的项目。去年已经有人要研究这个专题,NIH还在考虑要不要给他们资金。这种研究很贵,也不太容易施行。目前大家对MRNA的理解是: https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/02/02/1017161/covid-vaccine-asymptomatic-transmission-pfizer-trial/ A step toward understanding how often vaccinated people spread the virus is what Pfizer is doing now: trying to figure out whether people like De Toma are getting infected without ever feeling sick. The evidence so far suggests that vaccines should cut the chance of transmission, but may not eliminate it. For example, vaccinated monkeys spritzed with the virus do get infected but don’t become particularly sick. Overall, they have much less virus in their airways. “There is strong evidence that contagiousness is correlated with symptoms. If you can cut down symptoms, you are probably cutting down transmission,” says Shaman. But that doesn’t mean there is no spread. Early in the pandemic, researchers discovered that some people who caught the coronavirus and never felt sick were still spreading the disease. The evidence now suggests that the role of such “silent spreaders” is substantial, even though they tend to infect fewer people on average. In a report published January 7, a team including epidemiologists at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated that a third of people infected with the coronavirus never develop symptoms and that they cause about a quarter of all spread. Moderna Therapeutics, maker of another vaccine, did not reply to questions about whether it is studying transmission. However, preliminary data the company submitted to the US Food and Drug Administration in December offered one clue: people who got one dose of the vaccine were 66% less likely to turn up positive on a coronavirus test than those who got the placebo. Moderna suggested that “that some asymptomatic infections start to be prevented after the first dose.”
这打或者不打的干嘴架和讨论政治一样,永远都没有辩出结果的时候… 这么多数据摆在那里,还是有人相信打疫苗的(潜在)副作用大于的新冠。 我很喜欢npr里一位嘉宾说的话: covid vaccine is to reduce your risk of contracting COVID, not to make you immortal.
最近疫苗的好消息很多,尤其是那个不用打booster的。
所以,就这样吧,约了。
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-30/mandating-vaccinations-may-be-reasonable-but-may-not-be-smart?srnd=premium
你不就是成天苦口婆心劝别人不要打的吗?
说话请凭根据,请找出我苦口婆心劝别人不要打的帖子,谢谢。
我的观点一直是打或者不打是自己做决定的事情,自己承担后果。我也一直说的是我自己在目前情况选择不打以及理由。我没有任何意愿劝别人打或者不打,难道别人的脑子是摆设?自己没法给自己做决定,需要听别人来劝吗?对于劝别人打或者不打的人我非常不理解,这两者中我更反感的是举着道德大棒劝别人打的人,一旦劝不动了就扣帽子什么反疫苗什么五毛,比如版上那位所谓的专家。
别啊,自然免疫更健康。要不然科兴蒸馏水打一下,不伤身体
如果疫苗强制大人,你的孩子打也是跑不掉的。早晚的事。那样你就省的整天揪心别人打没打了。
如果你说小浣熊,他从来没有举道德大棒,也没有扣帽子,他只是科普。因为发假数据假新闻假科研成果的太多了,她去伪存真而已。你打不打都可以理解。
是呀,打蒸馏水自然不会这么纠结了
估计早晚的事吧
为啥打过的疫苗的和媒体都说protect others? 站在道德巨高点说话不腰疼。
你说话好听 最后关于疫苗的一贴了吧 很多道德胁迫的人 打不打疫苗、什么时候打都自己决定,公司现在都还没完全硬性强制,那些人算老几。你打的早你高尚?P!
这是美国 脚长自己身上 可以去红州 可以找不作要求的红老板 你还可以提告
她给我和其他id扣帽子也不是一次两次了,懒得全找了。而且她的帖子里动不动就称不太同意她观点的id 是anti-vaxxer.
其实她科普开始我也喜欢看,后来发现她其实每个帖子都带着很严重的倾向性,苦口婆心的劝,并不是纯粹的科学态度,再后来就开始扣帽子,就变得很反感了。
什么叫对同事负责??
重点不是能不能,而是为什么要? tg舍己为人集体主义优良传统的复现?
小浣熊的这个帖子主要是针对那些吹捧灭活疫苗的人说的, 她在第二段里提出的问题很专业,你有什么高见回复?
要说倾向性,当然有。难道你的帖子没有吗?尽管你一直说的是个人自己选择,但要说你的倾向性不明显那也真是掩耳盗铃。
同事家的儿女可能不到岁数,但是为什么老人不能去打疫苗?
他的帖子是回复我的帖子的,然后给我扣帽子是小粉红,别的帖子里还说过五毛,然后很多次称意见不一致的人是反疫苗,你看不见吗?
我有倾向性但我只在说我自己,她有倾向性她在规劝别人,这是一回事吗?
我贴这个图的意思不是想讨论什么高见低见,我是在回复前面那个id她说她没有看到小浣熊给人扣帽子,我随便找了一贴让她看看小浣熊扣的帽子
你慢慢等吧...
小浣熊说的有理有据,你可以用科学数据逐条反驳啊。你在每个疫苗贴里都大量回帖反对打疫苗,这不叫苦口婆心地劝叫什么,你对疫苗的关注度和回帖量比小浣熊多多了,含金量却少得可怜。
你自己打不打你觉得真的有人关心吗?大家反感的不就是你整天大量回帖不懂装懂想要影响别人?
有理有据的反驳有啊,但不是这个帖子的内容。
你反感你可以不看啊,我每个帖子你都看,还经常回帖,你这是刻意给你自己添堵吗? 而且我说小浣熊,并不是我对她科普反感,你不要搞错,而是因为她对和自己意见不一致的id扣帽子的行为反感。
大家反感?有人还想看呢。
也不是想看你,我看的都是别人的帖子,恰好每个和疫苗有关的帖里都有你大量回帖而已(耸肩),不过你提醒得对,是应该屏蔽你。
欢迎屏蔽!这样我也不用看到你大量回复的我的帖子了 :)我真心不想得到你的关注,谢谢
纽约看烟火还区分观众是否打疫苗,这和过去黑人专用厕所和白人专用厕所有什么区别?
现在各个公司对打没打也是区别对待,没办法。关键是公司领导班子觉得打了疫苗的是好员工。
FYI, 我已经看到有旅游项目要求购买非接种的保险,也许航空公司等以后也会如此做。
我们公司不强制打疫苗。打了也没有奖励。不打也没有惩罚。
但是去办公室,不管打了或者没有打疫苗,都必须戴口罩。
你自己不觉得,旁观者清,还是自重些好。这系列回应帖,就是因为你反复议论可能的长期副作用而没有任何数据作为依据,在这个主题上又主动攻击别人而引起的。
自重??你确认你中文ok? 这么驴唇不对马嘴的骂人不觉得脸红吗?我反倒是你该自重一点,否则不会为日本倾倒废水洗地。请问我主动攻击谁了?你是不是在主动攻击我??
这个说法的assumption有三个:第一是打了疫苗的人不再携带病毒并且不会再将病毒传染给其他人。第二,没打疫苗的人都一定会携带病毒并且传播病毒。第三,疫苗即使没有完全阻断感染和传播也绝对不会导致更厉害的病毒变异。
有没有文化啊,打了疫苗能大量降低感染率的好吗?虽然疫苗不是100%防感染,但mRNA疫苗可以降低90%的infection(注意,data说了,不只是降低有症状感染了,而是所有感染)!https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vaccines.html
打疫苗能保护自己,也能保护别人,告诉你了又如何?你这种人还是能找一万个理由不打。如果不打就不打,别张嘴胡说什么疫苗不保护别人的歪理。
为日本倾倒废水洗地?请提醒一下哪篇,我不记得,如果我无原则辩护当然错误。
足够多人打疫苗可以形成群体免疫确实是公卫观点,引用一位县公职人员针对delta variant 在社区传播的评论. 他们已经有过几次outbreak, 但据说在14天内就遏制住了。
In Marin County, which has been widely recognized for its high rate of vaccinations, with more than 83 percent of eligible residents fully vaccinated, health officials confirmed that the Delta variant had been detected there too. A sampling of recent cases showed about 65 percent stemmed from the Delta variant. Figures showed that in the past 14 days, the county has seen 44 new cases overall and officials noted that the 65 percent represented just samples returned in the past month.
Marin County Health Public Information Officer Laine Hendricks told KTVU that while there were still residents who have not been vaccinated, the high rate of those who have received their shots were clearly providing protections to the entire community.
"Thankfully, because of Marin’s growing vaccination rate, where we do detect the presence of the variant, the cases die out versus spreading, because we’re beginning to see the benefits of community immunity," Hendricks said. "The message at the end of the day? Vaccines have proven their effectiveness and this is yet another reason for residents to consider vaccination."
不过前几天我看到一篇MIT tech review的文章,说pfizer其实正在研究疫苗对于阻断传播的有效率有多高,2月份开始的项目。去年已经有人要研究这个专题,NIH还在考虑要不要给他们资金。这种研究很贵,也不太容易施行。目前大家对MRNA的理解是: https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/02/02/1017161/covid-vaccine-asymptomatic-transmission-pfizer-trial/
A step toward understanding how often vaccinated people spread the virus is what Pfizer is doing now: trying to figure out whether people like De Toma are getting infected without ever feeling sick. The evidence so far suggests that vaccines should cut the chance of transmission, but may not eliminate it. For example, vaccinated monkeys spritzed with the virus do get infected but don’t become particularly sick. Overall, they have much less virus in their airways. “There is strong evidence that contagiousness is correlated with symptoms. If you can cut down symptoms, you are probably cutting down transmission,” says Shaman.
But that doesn’t mean there is no spread. Early in the pandemic, researchers discovered that some people who caught the coronavirus and never felt sick were still spreading the disease. The evidence now suggests that the role of such “silent spreaders” is substantial, even though they tend to infect fewer people on average. In a report published January 7, a team including epidemiologists at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated that a third of people infected with the coronavirus never develop symptoms and that they cause about a quarter of all spread. Moderna Therapeutics, maker of another vaccine, did not reply to questions about whether it is studying transmission. However, preliminary data the company submitted to the US Food and Drug Administration in December offered one clue: people who got one dose of the vaccine were 66% less likely to turn up positive on a coronavirus test than those who got the placebo. Moderna suggested that “that some asymptomatic infections start to be prevented after the first dose.”
你大概对世界的认识都是二元的,是或非,黑或白,1或0。和这样的二元世界观人士是不值得辩论浪费时间的。
你去读读你自己的帖子,句句话都是槽点,懒得和你细说了,很多东西各个论坛都被讨论无数遍了。如果 Assumption都是槽点的话,论点就别提了
有人由于疾病没法打,或者打了效果不一定。比如用免疫抑制治疗的人,化疗病人。 如果人人都打疫苗,那就保护了这些弱势群体。 比如反疫苗的最喜欢提到的delta, 每传播一个人就多一次变异机会。如果现在疫苗对delta 的保护力度是85%, 人人都打疫苗, delta传播复制的空间就少,变异机会就小,每个打了疫苗的都能得到85%的保护。由于人人打疫苗,社区病人少,由于疾病和年龄不能打疫苗的人也可以得到保护。如果大部分人不打疫苗,delta有充分变异机会,有可能变异出免疫逃逸的种类。
之前看到研究推测有些变种是免疫力低下的人群在被传染新冠后长期接受特效药治疗时产生的(譬如convalescent plasma therapy),因为在这些病例中,强大的evoluntionary pressure会加速病毒mutate的斜率。如果这个结论成立,那其实保证他们不被传染还挺重要的,不论用疫苗还是物理隔离的手段。然后mass tranmission(放任病毒传播)也是另外一种变种产生的途径。
这种assumption就是非白即黑,什么事情都必须绝对。打了疫苗就必须绝对不会把病毒传染给别人,没打疫苗就必须一定携带病毒。事实上就是一个几率,什么事情都不是绝对的。打了疫苗可以降低自己感染的几率,减低传染他人的几率。但打了疫苗也有几率会有breakthrough cases,不打疫苗也有一定几率平安无事。说一定要满足这些所谓绝对assumption的完全是耍赖啊
小浣熊的帖子不能看,经常明目张胆的胡说
问你哪篇为日本倾倒废水洗地,为何沉默不语,也许你记错了。我对不了解的事情,基本态度是不予评论,日本这事,我根本不了解,为其无原则辩护完全不合我跟帖写帖的逻辑。
不打疫苗的就一定到处逛吗?从哪里得出的结论?反而我认识的不打疫苗的都相当谨慎小心,很注意防护隔离洗手消毒的,不应该一上来就给不打疫苗的扣个大帽子
这个时候不打的就默默在家呆着好了,真的不要再出来说了,长不长期的,也得现在大家都先挺过这一关啊。对人类大局来考虑的话肯定得打,你的理由只适用于对个人的考虑,咱也可以理解,但就别出来说了,非得全世界都知道你自私啊
就算有病毒,不生病浓度低就难传播。就拿感冒病毒来说,发烧时最容易穿播,因为那时病毒在你体内复制浓度最高。
按照这位层主的一贯逻辑,强制打疫苗是不可以接受的;但是国内那样强制隔离是应该的。
别跟那些人浪费口水了,反疫苗的,有很多是政治原因,根深蒂固的偏见,不可能被说动的,还有是五毛翻墙来带风向,恨不得美国疫情一直新高好凸显社会主义优越性
现在还在扯短期副作用?你不是去年做Trial的也不是今年年初开打的第一批,全世界几亿人这几个月都替你打了,短期副作用华人已经讨论无数轮了,除非你身体及其特殊,估计不会遇到啥未知的短期副作用。长期副作用未知,得新冠的长期副作用也未知,不过个十年八年也没人知道。现在谁还劝打,孩子不愿意打人人理解,现在身体健康但还没打疫苗的大人只在网络上见过。
看到那个果子ID被大家拍我就放心了。这么科盲又蜜汁自信的人太少见了。
我觉得防止传播还是有点用的吧,起码不咳嗽不打喷嚏喷出来的飞沫要少多了
或者完全不出门,所有都网上搞定。也不错。
领导也怕死。疫苗有效率90-95%。身边多几个人不打疫苗的,自己的危险程度也提高。 这没啥不好理解的。
就是精神病。不知道从何说起。
嗯哼 非常的夹带私货
exactly
我遇见追捧某id的 见到我就说要屏蔽我 屏到现在还不断给我回贴 还说我不正常
这年头
你这是典型的怀疑论者的表现。请问什么东西能100%保证有效和无害?吃饭还能噎死人呢,你别吃饭了。按照你的逻辑,别人没噎死不代表你没事。
吃饭还能噎死呢,喝水还能呛死呢,睡觉还能闷死呢,开车还能撞死呢。。。但是老子不打疫苗,就绝不会被疫苗打死!
谁知道楼主打没打,说不定只是博关注。我们这些反疫苗人士苦口婆心劝那么久,还是有人飞蛾扑火一般前赴后继,鲁莽地横冲直撞。她们不会听的。等月经不调血崩了又上来哭。见了太多次了,甚至觉得好笑。
为什么口罩不能强制而疫苗可以强制?
真高兴 能 到这 个评语 点赞最高, 如果是说中国强制 一大批 踩 批的。
不要勉强自己,还是别打了
又能造口罩还能造疫苗的厉害国,按你说的岂不更是发世界难财。
不需要这么绝对,都是概率问题。打了疫苗的人携带病毒并且传染别人的概率远远小于没打疫苗的,没打疫苗的更容易染上也就更容易发生更厉害的病毒变异。
说的太好了。不打疫苗的成年人就是自私,打了疫苗的确保护自己也为公共安全卫生做贡献
逻辑大大的有问题 第一,打了疫苗的人比不打疫苗的人传染给别人的概率更低,并不代表100%不携带病毒 第二,没打疫苗的人携带并传播病毒的概率更高,并不代表所有没打疫苗的人都携带病毒 第三点是有可能的,但是基于第二点和第一点,疫苗可以更有效的阻断感染很传播
在层主的脑子里只有1和0两个数字,没有中间
你是想说反疫苗的人赶紧换工作到政府和大公司去?
如果打疫苗的人足够多,社区传播就能被压下来,怎么就不是保护别人了?