Call 111 immediately if you get any of these symptoms starting from around 4 days to 4 weeks after being vaccinated: a severe headache that is not relieved with painkillers or is getting worse a headache that feels worse when you lie down or bend over a headache that''s unusual for you and occurs with blurred vision, feeling or being sick, problems speaking, weakness, drowsiness or seizures (fits) a rash that looks like small bruises or bleeding under the skin shortness of breath, chest pain, leg swelling or persistent abdominal (tummy) pain
应该和腺病毒无关。mrna疫苗和covid病毒也会引起血栓。因果关系如下：注射疫苗-->免疫系统改变-->血小板下降-->血栓/脑出血/耳鸣/月经大量出血/流鼻血。紫癜/itp/荨麻疹也有可能是血小板下降所致。 “The adverse reaction related to the astra zeneca news is an autoimmune disorder where your body creates antibodies that attack your platelets. Your platelets are what help your blood clot so the people with brain bleeds end up having dangerously low platelets and bleeding in the brain. All of the vaccines have caused this reaction. You can develop this autoimmune condition by being exposed to any virus. The body just messes up and misidentifies your platelets as a possible infection and begins eliminating them. The covid virus itself has also caused this reaction. Currently the statistics for these cases only match what would normally occur naturally within the general population so these people would have potentially had this response just to being exposed to any virus. I know all this because I had this response myself to the MMR vaccine. It has been shown statistically with that vaccine that an immune thrombocytopenia reaction can occur more frequently as an adverse reaction to that vaccine. So vaccines are known to trigger this but so far with the covid vaccines the data isn't there yet to definitely say it's the cause. If you had low platelets after the covid vaccine you would likely have excessive bruising and petechia, which are small pin prick red dots on your skin that fade like a bruise. You can get a CBC, a complete blood count test pretty easily with a drs visit. It's a very cheap test drs will run without hassling you. That would give you a platelet count.”
mRNA疫苗暂时没有发现反常的血栓数量。 https://www.ft.com/content/d5cd63c6-af01-4d29-a5e5-b69ade4f3803 Have similar incidents been seen for other vaccines? Not many. In the UK, there have been at least two reports of CVST in people that have received the Pfizer vaccine. But the MHRA said on Thursday that those cases had not been combined with the low platelet counts seen among CVST cases in recipients of the AstraZeneca jab. More than 12m doses of the shot have been administered. Oldenburg, at the University of Bonn, said he was not aware of any reports of similar incidents in people who had received any of the other Covid-19 vaccines being used in Europe, specifically the shots made by Pfizer and Moderna. One member of the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) that advises the UK government said it would be “premature” to say definitively that the Pfizer shot had not led to similar problems. “[Experts in Europe] have looked more closely at the AstraZeneca vaccine so they’ve found more things,” the committee member said.
mRNA疫苗暂时没有发现反常的血栓数量。 https://www.ft.com/content/d5cd63c6-af01-4d29-a5e5-b69ade4f3803 Have similar incidents been seen for other vaccines? Not many. In the UK, there have been at least two reports of CVST in people that have received the Pfizer vaccine. But the MHRA said on Thursday that those cases had not been combined with the low platelet counts seen among CVST cases in recipients of the AstraZeneca jab. More than 12m doses of the shot have been administered. Oldenburg, at the University of Bonn, said he was not aware of any reports of similar incidents in people who had received any of the other Covid-19 vaccines being used in Europe, specifically the shots made by Pfizer and Moderna. One member of the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) that advises the UK government said it would be “premature” to say definitively that the Pfizer shot had not led to similar problems. “[Experts in Europe] have looked more closely at the AstraZeneca vaccine so they’ve found more things,” the committee member said. bigjohn123456 发表于 2021-04-08 10:19
应该和腺病毒无关。mrna疫苗和covid病毒也会引起血栓。因果关系如下：注射疫苗-->免疫系统改变-->血小板下降-->血栓/脑出血/耳鸣/月经大量出血/流鼻血。紫癜/itp/荨麻疹也有可能是血小板下降所致。 “The adverse reaction related to the astra zeneca news is an autoimmune disorder where your body creates antibodies that attack your platelets. Your platelets are what help your blood clot so the people with brain bleeds end up having dangerously low platelets and bleeding in the brain. All of the vaccines have caused this reaction. You can develop this autoimmune condition by being exposed to any virus. The body just messes up and misidentifies your platelets as a possible infection and begins eliminating them. The covid virus itself has also caused this reaction. Currently the statistics for these cases only match what would normally occur naturally within the general population so these people would have potentially had this response just to being exposed to any virus. I know all this because I had this response myself to the MMR vaccine. It has been shown statistically with that vaccine that an immune thrombocytopenia reaction can occur more frequently as an adverse reaction to that vaccine. So vaccines are known to trigger this but so far with the covid vaccines the data isn't there yet to definitely say it's the cause. If you had low platelets after the covid vaccine you would likely have excessive bruising and petechia, which are small pin prick red dots on your skin that fade like a bruise. You can get a CBC, a complete blood count test pretty easily with a drs visit. It's a very cheap test drs will run without hassling you. That would give you a platelet count.”
回复 48楼shamatown的帖子 The error does not affect any Johnson & Johnson doses that are currently being delivered and used nationwide, including the shipments that states are counting on next week. All those doses were produced in the Netherlands, where operations have been fully approved by federal regulators. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/31/us/politics/johnson-johnson-coronavirus-vaccine.html 忘了在哪条新闻看到的，这个巴尔的摩的工厂是政府（联邦政府？）的冗余设置，保证在任何pandemic期间能用来生产疫苗的。也许是初始阶段的磨合问题？这个是自己的猜测。
现在还不知道到底是腺病毒疫苗的问题，还是牛津疫苗自己的问题 是不是黑猩猩的腺病毒有问题
目前只知道似乎是自身免疫系统过激反应导致的，越年轻几率越大，女性似乎比男性多。也有人认为和“肝素诱发的血小板减少症（HIT）”原理差不多。接下来死者的解剖结果出来可能会有更多的information.
所以打强生的还是要注意观察一下自己
民间土建议是打完了别久坐，比如坐飞机，因为坐飞机也增大血栓概率
再有一定要注意无缘故的头疼 血栓并不是打完了立刻出现 现在观察一般都是几天到一周之后出现 头疼后出现视力下降
Call 111 immediately if you get any of these symptoms starting from around 4 days to 4 weeks after being vaccinated: a severe headache that is not relieved with painkillers or is getting worse a headache that feels worse when you lie down or bend over a headache that''s unusual for you and occurs with blurred vision, feeling or being sick, problems speaking, weakness, drowsiness or seizures (fits) a rash that looks like small bruises or bleeding under the skin shortness of breath, chest pain, leg swelling or persistent abdominal (tummy) pain
英国有的去世的人，就是打完了一周开始头疼，头疼了几天开始视力下降，视力下降之后再送进医院发现血栓已经很大了。如果一开始就积极治疗，可能会好很多！
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p>m>jnj
“The adverse reaction related to the astra zeneca news is an autoimmune disorder where your body creates antibodies that attack your platelets. Your platelets are what help your blood clot so the people with brain bleeds end up having dangerously low platelets and bleeding in the brain. All of the vaccines have caused this reaction. You can develop this autoimmune condition by being exposed to any virus. The body just messes up and misidentifies your platelets as a possible infection and begins eliminating them. The covid virus itself has also caused this reaction. Currently the statistics for these cases only match what would normally occur naturally within the general population so these people would have potentially had this response just to being exposed to any virus. I know all this because I had this response myself to the MMR vaccine. It has been shown statistically with that vaccine that an immune thrombocytopenia reaction can occur more frequently as an adverse reaction to that vaccine. So vaccines are known to trigger this but so far with the covid vaccines the data isn't there yet to definitely say it's the cause. If you had low platelets after the covid vaccine you would likely have excessive bruising and petechia, which are small pin prick red dots on your skin that fade like a bruise. You can get a CBC, a complete blood count test pretty easily with a drs visit. It's a very cheap test drs will run without hassling you. That would give you a platelet count.”
腺病毒的特点是会进入dna核释放mrna；而mrna疫苗本身就是mrna，不会进入dna核，0%改变dna。长期side effect来说，mrna比腺病毒安全稳妥。
血栓把血小板用光了啊。一边血栓一边还有出血倾向，很危险的
腺病毒引起的抗体更多更杂，虽然都是百万分之几的概率，出问题可能确实大那么一点点。另外一个猜测就是欧洲生产的疫苗质量控制是不是有问题，导致一小部分猩猩腺病毒仍然可以复制
为啥对Pfizer 有信心? 他只是设计了临床实验，生产都是找的CRO， Pfizer 本身好像没开发过什么生物制品。就是人员素质还不错。你这是品牌效应吗？莫多纳可以开发出不用低温储存的疫苗，就更胜Pfizer 一筹。美国能够开发生产出高质量的疫苗，根本就是医疗消费还是自由市场经济，还没有被国家接管，美国消费者承担高药价，为全世界药物研发题目，经济支持堆出来的。
因为Pfizer现在推广的国家更广泛，接种的人数也diverse呀。
这次牛津疫苗，一开始在英国rollout的时候按照英国的办法是严格按照年龄打起，就没有暴露这个问题。到了后来欧盟的rollout有的国家的policy里面涵盖老师等等更多人群，年轻一些的加进来，各种各样的人都进来，问题就暴露出来了。
M家目前还主要是美国本土的数据，以及欧洲刚刚起步开大的一些，数据远不如Pfizer多。按照牛津的经验，母国可能护犊子，还是需要其他国家检验一下。。。
所以Pfizer目前的口碑信用是最好的。
英国这边给的数据是20-29的人群 牛津疫苗造成严重副作用的比例是十万分之1.1
这数字还挺大的。。。
不过他们说这个没有节育pill血栓概率大。但是pill的血栓一般也不死人啊。。。牛津疫苗的血栓死亡率四分之一。。。所以呵呵呵。。。我觉得十万分之1.1对于一个有竞争对手疫苗来说太高了。而且估计这个还没包括短期视力下降的。。。
我同事就是打完了一只眼睛里面有血斑视力下降。然后GP说这种属于正常副作用，一般几个月就消失了。谁知道啥时候能恢复。。。大家都呵呵了。。。
mRNA疫苗暂时没有发现反常的血栓数量。 https://www.ft.com/content/d5cd63c6-af01-4d29-a5e5-b69ade4f3803
Have similar incidents been seen for other vaccines? Not many. In the UK, there have been at least two reports of CVST in people that have received the Pfizer vaccine. But the MHRA said on Thursday that those cases had not been combined with the low platelet counts seen among CVST cases in recipients of the AstraZeneca jab. More than 12m doses of the shot have been administered.
Oldenburg, at the University of Bonn, said he was not aware of any reports of similar incidents in people who had received any of the other Covid-19 vaccines being used in Europe, specifically the shots made by Pfizer and Moderna.
One member of the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) that advises the UK government said it would be “premature” to say definitively that the Pfizer shot had not led to similar problems. “[Experts in Europe] have looked more closely at the AstraZeneca vaccine so they’ve found more things,” the committee member said.
说起来英国也有打Pfizer血栓的 但都是治疗一下就好了
我觉得这还算挺正常的
牛津打完了出现血栓的死了四分之一 也不知道NHS是不是抢救的时候犯了错误 这也太夸张了 其中还有几个是30岁以下死了的
说白了，就是去年年末英国的情况实在太绝望了，直接搞全民大型三期实验。没办法的事情。
所以CCTV，现在每天大量新闻在报道牛津疫苗翻车，欧盟绝望，病例再爆etc。。没有再黑mRNA了。
另外牛津疫苗暂停了儿童试验，很多国家都暂停了在年轻人中接种该疫苗。而且Moderna在英国到货，他们也开始给年轻人打Moderna了，牛津疫苗在发达国家的需求应该会减少，重点关注发展中国家。
还挺写实的。。。法国现在爆的乱七八糟。。。
up to 4 weeks
我已经打了一个月还没啥感觉，算过了危险期吗。。。
按照专家说法没有超过四周才出现血栓的。。。所以是吧。。。
问下你同事年龄段和性别呀。。。
哈哈哈，也可能是超过四周就划给别的原因了。。。
男 40s
按照年龄段还没轮上 他以照顾老人理由打的
他GP说这情况不算太罕见 等等就会好 所以就等着吧。。。
牛津疫苗算是完了，55岁以下的都等辉瑞。还好从这周开始，法国本土也开始生产了辉瑞。
的确 现在不给它判死刑主要是考虑第三世界抢不到其他的 暂时只有这一个选择
Pfizer应该不完全靠CRO吧，Pfizer自己有工厂，在密歇根的Kalamazoo。 Novavax应该是CRO。
强生我看到的数据是全世界打了四百五十万 里 出了三个和牛津一样的血栓
这比例 对比 牛津两千多万里八十个血栓还是低很多 （数据来源不确定 就是新闻网站看到的）
第八到九天的时候出现的
谢谢你。最近好像确实是强生的疫苗比较容易约到。 我也是这样安慰自己的，毕竟那么多人用了这个疫苗…只是最近看版上好多人，好像知道些内情，说不推荐打强生疫苗，就越来越慌了。
打完针四周内都有 有两个案例出来讲的 一个是一周后开始头疼 最后死了 一个是13天后开始肌肉疼 最后进了ICU
说起来如果第二天就难受可能就重视起来了。这两个人都是症状出现晚 一开始根本没把这个往疫苗身上想，还以为自己累了啥的，错过最佳治疗时期。
想了也没用。就你前面说的你同事那操作，就算是自己怀疑了，联系GP，也必定是让回家等着到不行了再去急诊。。。
哎 现在他们知道了 重视起来了 医学的每一个进步都是人命堆出来的啊
这个就要看个人权衡了，一个是资源问题，一个是概率问题，孩子们现在肉身返校上课了，如果只有牛津可选，我们这个年龄段，打疫苗死亡的概率还是比染上COVID死亡的概率要低很多很多。如果是30以下的人群，covid 对他们绝大部分人来说就是个流感，疫苗对他们来说帮助不大，他们打疫苗更大的作用是减少他们染上COVID 传给别人的可能性。
可不可以展开讲一下腺病毒DNA进入细胞核究竟会有何风险，目前学术界如何看。真像下面一位回复说的腺病毒载体在生产过程中没控制好还可以复制，就有点儿可怕呀。本来想遇上强生也打的，现在迷惑了。
我也觉得很迷惑
之前是大量帖子说mrna风险大 ，现在轮到强生了
专家能不能讲解一些疫苗风险的构成。
科学概念造成的， mRNA vs 腺病毒 vs 重组蛋白。比如是否改变DNA之类的。 从概念的执行难易程度造成的，听起来mRNA比另外两个步骤少，更容易按着设定正确实现。 厂家的声誉和执行力，比如辉瑞是大药厂，强生已经爆出来的生产事故，还有novavax以后用的药厂是否靠谱。
嗯，也许这么想下来，更不知道打什么了。。。哈哈。
先谢过了！ 感谢你一直孜孜不倦分享信息和知识哈！
强生现在都是欧洲生产的吗？本来想打的，一说又犹豫了，哎。
The error does not affect any Johnson & Johnson doses that are currently being delivered and used nationwide, including the shipments that states are counting on next week. All those doses were produced in the Netherlands, where operations have been fully approved by federal regulators.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/31/us/politics/johnson-johnson-coronavirus-vaccine.html
忘了在哪条新闻看到的，这个巴尔的摩的工厂是政府（联邦政府？）的冗余设置，保证在任何pandemic期间能用来生产疫苗的。也许是初始阶段的磨合问题？这个是自己的猜测。
真的。看FDA数据说大了辉瑞的头疼是常见副作用之一。老公已经头疼两天了，也不能就去急诊啊。
强生是腺病毒载体疫苗，跟牛津疫苗类似技术路线，美国没有灭活的新冠疫苗。。
这言之凿凿的。。。强生可不是灭活疫苗
笑死了，你墙那头的？只知道灭活疫苗？
这个吓人的
请问你家老人有这边的保险吗？像出现这种情况，B2签证没有保险的话是得全自费治疗吗？谢谢
这我不知道 英国是预约疫苗会和自己的家庭医生（英国叫GP）商量
现在是建议有血液问题的去打辉瑞不要牛津
我觉得你还是去问问医生吧
N家不是腺病毒疫苗吧？ 现在市面上只有牛津和强生两款腺病毒，以及俄罗斯的一个似乎也是？ 其实强生和牛津用的腺病毒也是不一样的 只是技术差不多 所以还是要提高警惕 很多问题都要打的人多起来才能发现
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tiaodashen czboy你好
华人太牛了。 各种抢跑cdc
在被确定是有关系之前，都是没关系的。。。
牛津/强生疫苗也之前也是啊。。。
这还是有区别的
心梗是个不算罕见的病
牛津强生的这个血栓不是普通血栓 而是极罕见的一种血栓 死亡率高 所以。。。
话说我打了P家第一针 第三天出现头疼 然后查了一下 很多人都说头疼 头疼算是血栓的一个症状吗？
YES AND NO
英国这么解释的 头疼是个很常见的事情 打疫苗后也很常见 但是严重头疼外加连续疼不见好越来越重就要怀疑是血栓了 脑血栓的头疼和平时吵架的头疼是有本质区别的
一开始最早有病例的时候，3月中欧盟管理部门说的是“没有发现关联” “血栓比例并没有比正常人群更高”。
过了几天，才说“不排除有关联”，然后有细节的报告出来问题不是血栓比例，而是这个血栓本身有点不一样。
我们非专业人士，也不知道此血栓 彼血栓，或者也许此心梗 彼心梗 也有可能，还不就是权威部门一句话。
所以说，发现有关系之前，都是没有关系的。
类似的，英国在把核酸测试扩大到 非意大利旅行归来的旅客 / 美国在把核酸测试扩大到 非中国出发的旅客之前，英国美国也都是“没有社区传染”的。
我还是相信量的
反正我论优先级也是后面的
身边的都打了 都说好 就去打
辉瑞打了那么多了 我还是有信心的