https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210324/variants-of-variants-seen-in-covid-ravaged-brazil March 24, 2021 -- The unchecked spread of the more contagious coronavirus variants in Brazil appears to have created even more dangerous versions of the virus that causes COVID-19. A team of researchers from Fiocruz, a large public health research lab run by Brazil's Ministry of Health, documented the changes. Their findings were recently posted in a preprint on Virological.org, ahead of peer review. The study describes 11 coronavirus sequences from five Brazilian states. Each had telltale changes to the virus receptor, making it one of the known variants. But, each also had additional changes to another important region of the virus known as the N-terminal domain (NTD). The changes were deletions of important antibody-binding sites. Many of these were key deletions of a mutation that has arisen independently in other circulating variants and has been seen in viral mutations in convalescent patients with cancer, suggesting that it conveys an important advantage to the virus. Eric Feigl-Ding @DrEricDing Let that sink in: 60% of all ICU patients in São Paulo, Brazil are now between the ages of 30-50 years old, reports @MattRiversCNN
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210324/variants-of-variants-seen-in-covid-ravaged-brazil March 24, 2021 -- The unchecked spread of the more contagious coronavirus variants in Brazil appears to have created even more dangerous versions of the virus that causes COVID-19. A team of researchers from Fiocruz, a large public health research lab run by Brazil's Ministry of Health, documented the changes. Their findings were recently posted in a preprint on Virological.org, ahead of peer review. The study describes 11 coronavirus sequences from five Brazilian states. Each had telltale changes to the virus receptor, making it one of the known variants. But, each also had additional changes to another important region of the virus known as the N-terminal domain (NTD). The changes were deletions of important antibody-binding sites. Many of these were key deletions of a mutation that has arisen independently in other circulating variants and has been seen in viral mutations in convalescent patients with cancer, suggesting that it conveys an important advantage to the virus. Eric Feigl-Ding @DrEricDing Let that sink in: 60% of all ICU patients in São Paulo, Brazil are now between the ages of 30-50 years old, reports @MattRiversCNN
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210324/variants-of-variants-seen-in-covid-ravaged-brazil March 24, 2021 -- The unchecked spread of the more contagious coronavirus variants in Brazil appears to have created even more dangerous versions of the virus that causes COVID-19. A team of researchers from Fiocruz, a large public health research lab run by Brazil''s Ministry of Health, documented the changes. Their findings were recently posted in a preprint on Virological.org, ahead of peer review. The study describes 11 coronavirus sequences from five Brazilian states. Each had telltale changes to the virus receptor, making it one of the known variants. But, each also had additional changes to another important region of the virus known as the N-terminal domain (NTD). The changes were deletions of important antibody-binding sites. Many of these were key deletions of a mutation that has arisen independently in other circulating variants and has been seen in viral mutations in convalescent patients with cancer, suggesting that it conveys an important advantage to the virus. Eric Feigl-Ding @DrEricDing Let that sink in: 60% of all ICU patients in São Paulo, Brazil are now between the ages of 30-50 years old, reports @MattRiversCNN
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210324/variants-of-variants-seen-in-covid-ravaged-brazil March 24, 2021 -- The unchecked spread of the more contagious coronavirus variants in Brazil appears to have created even more dangerous versions of the virus that causes COVID-19. A team of researchers from Fiocruz, a large public health research lab run by Brazil's Ministry of Health, documented the changes. Their findings were recently posted in a preprint on Virological.org, ahead of peer review. The study describes 11 coronavirus sequences from five Brazilian states. Each had telltale changes to the virus receptor, making it one of the known variants. But, each also had additional changes to another important region of the virus known as the N-terminal domain (NTD). The changes were deletions of important antibody-binding sites. Many of these were key deletions of a mutation that has arisen independently in other circulating variants and has been seen in viral mutations in convalescent patients with cancer, suggesting that it conveys an important advantage to the virus. Eric Feigl-Ding @DrEricDing Let that sink in: 60% of all ICU patients in São Paulo, Brazil are now between the ages of 30-50 years old, reports @MattRiversCNN
看到一些反对打疫苗的人说，疫苗是控制人口的手段，通过打疫苗可以把不肯打疫苗的人排除出社会，然后说疫苗的副作用会潜伏到6个月或者一年后大爆发，打疫苗的人会非死即残，痛心疾首滴说大多数老百姓都被洗脑了，而不愿意do your own research。我倒是奇了怪了，他们做了啥样的research得出了这样的结论，今天看到楼主的帖，明白了，一样的数据，在不同人眼里可以是完全相反的意思。
ADE a Non-Issue With COVID Vaccines Scientists say that ADE is pretty much a non-issue with COVID-19 vaccines, but what are they basing this on? From the early stages of COVID-19 vaccine development, scientists sought to target a SARS-CoV-2 protein that was least likely to cause ADE. For example, when they found out that targeting the nucleoprotein of SARS-CoV-2 might cause ADE, they quickly abandoned that approach. The safest route seemed to be targeting the S2 subunit of the spike protein, and they ran with that, wrote Derek Lowe, PhD, in his Science Translational Medicine blog "In the Pipeline." Scientists designed animal studies to look for ADE. They looked for it in human trials, and they’ve been looking for it in the real-world data for COVID-19 vaccines with emergency use authorization. So far, they haven‘t seen signs of it. In fact, the opposite is happening, Lowe noted. "[W]hat seems to be beyond doubt is that the vaccinated subjects, over and over, show up with no severe coronavirus cases and no hospitalizations. That is the opposite of what you would expect if ADE were happening," he wrote.
Furthermore, ADE is an acute problem, and it can be very dramatic. If it was an issue with these vaccines, we would have spotted it by now, said Brian Lichty, PhD, an associate professor in pathology and molecular medicine at McMaster University in Toronto. "It’ll kill you quickly. In all the places I‘m aware of ADE happening, it is an acute, mostly cytokine-driven event," he told MedPage Today. The one exception may be an inactivated whole-cell, or "killed," vaccine developed by China. That vaccine uses alum, the same adjuvant that was used in the measles and RSV vaccines that caused ADE in the 1960s. The Chinese inactivated whole-cell vaccine could "conceivably" generate ADE like those older vaccines, according to Bloom."I don’t think that vaccine is ever going to see the light of day in the U.S., and it may not even be worth mentioning. There have been no actual cases of ADE with the Chinese whole-cell killed vaccine, or if so, it hasn‘t been reported," he said.
回复 59楼nj_guy的帖子 我也读了这篇文章，但其中有一句话：“Throughout the pandemic, scientists have been looking for ADE associated with SARS-CoV-2, but so far they haven't found any cases of it, noted Lichty.”是明显不对的。武汉当初有大批病人死于免疫风暴，不知道这位Lichty从哪里得出的结论。 总的来说文章讲的不错。
回复 59楼nj_guy的帖子 我也读了这篇文章，但其中有一句话：“Throughout the pandemic, scientists have been looking for ADE associated with SARS-CoV-2, but so far they haven''t found any cases of it, noted Lichty.”是明显不对的。武汉当初有大批病人死于免疫风暴，不知道这位Lichty从哪里得出的结论。 总的来说文章讲的不错。 xxhz0909 发表于 2021-03-27 10:54
March 24, 2021 -- The unchecked spread of the more contagious coronavirus variants in Brazil appears to have created even more dangerous versions of the virus that causes COVID-19. A team of researchers from Fiocruz, a large public health research lab run by Brazil's Ministry of Health, documented the changes. Their findings were recently posted in a preprint on Virological.org, ahead of peer review. The study describes 11 coronavirus sequences from five Brazilian states. Each had telltale changes to the virus receptor, making it one of the known variants. But, each also had additional changes to another important region of the virus known as the N-terminal domain (NTD). The changes were deletions of important antibody-binding sites. Many of these were key deletions of a mutation that has arisen independently in other circulating variants and has been seen in viral mutations in convalescent patients with cancer, suggesting that it conveys an important advantage to the virus.
Eric Feigl-Ding
@DrEricDing
Let that sink in: 60% of all ICU patients in São Paulo, Brazil are now between the ages of 30-50 years old, reports @MattRiversCNN
目前已知的所有疫苗，即使对以前的病毒变种有效率 80,90%的，对巴西变种的有效率剧降到只有10%， 除了ADE效应，没有其他可以解释的原因。新冠最终还是变成了西班牙大流感 2.0。苦日子看不到头。
你这个发现只能证明疫苗有效，老年人打过后不进ICU 了。下次发帖前，把脑子捋直了再贴吧
看了半天，没懂你要说啥 英文链接里肯定了疫苗作用 只是提醒未来变种，都是大实话啊
美国麻州的病例现在一半是30岁以下，说明疫苗是有用的，英国变种似乎没有年龄限制（之前大家都认为孩童和年轻人不易被传染）。
目前已知的所有疫苗，即使对以前的病毒变种有效率 80,90%的，对巴西变种的有效率剧降到只有10%，
给出数据来源，不然你就是个死带节奏的，有病！你们这种人到底出于何种目的？
你写的中文和英文内容风马牛不相及。你是不是觉得这个版上的人都不懂英文，随便你忽悠？还是你到处都是这么忽悠的，只是在这个版懂英文的人多，所以你栽了？
但是重症患者年轻化的确值得担忧。
这属于好日子过惯了，可以回到十八十九世纪二十世纪初没有疫苗的日子，各种流行病得一次非死即残，新冠的临床铺开打数据蛮充足的，去看看paul offit 的书了解下疫苗历史再喷吧。
数据不充分，巴西人口基数在那里。也许老人医院都不收治了
巴西不要求戴口罩，没有lockdown，总统不是川普更似川普。二月份的狂欢节取消了，但是还有很多人在浪，比弗洛里达春假人多多了
这板上一堆误导别人还开喷的，上来就是你不懂，然后骂，其实说的都是错的
年轻人之前得过再得很严重不就是ADE么，这板上的人不懂还瞎说
不能踩。但是有这种人替某国希望病毒依然在世界上传播，而且这种人还有人赞，只能说明这华人上很多人已经没有人性只有反某国的疯狂了
你知道全世界只有少数几个国家说不抗疫不打疫苗么，比如坦桑尼亚，上周总理突发心脏病死了，换上了一个女总统。你不觉得蹊跷么
就是这个理。这版上F2大妈居多，除了喷和扣帽子啥都不会。
按照以往的统计，年轻人即使新冠一般也是轻症居多。 现在年轻人得了后重症比例突然剧增，最大的可能就是ADE效应。 和当年西班牙大流感第2波高度类似。
当时第1波得了西班牙流感的年轻人靠自身免疫力抗过第一波，有了抗体。 第2波变异病毒一来，反而造成免疫系统误导，产生对抗初始病毒而对 变异病毒无效的抗体，造成大量中青年死亡。
病毒再变异也是冠状病毒，大部分人靠自己免疫力是可以对抗的，尤其是年轻人。 对抗不了最大的可能就是ADE效应。药厂现在尽量避免这个话题，跟效益有关。 大家都不打疫苗了，研发生产成本和利润哪里来？
是。
西班牙流感那时医疗水平很低，没有疫苗，都靠自身免疫力。 而且那时交通不发达，人口聚集程度也不如现在。 从某种程度来说，反而不如现在的情况凶险。
不懂这板上大妈为什么那么爱喷人，大家摆事实理性讨论不好么
记得你这个崭新的ID, 在另一个帖子里张嘴就来，说巴西的疫苗打的最多。从打疫苗的总人数和占人口的比例，哪一项巴西也离最多差不少。 这就是你要摆的“事实”？
事实？
文不对题叫事实？
巴西之前得病很厉害，有可能很多年轻人已经得过产生抗体所以第二次接触病原体的时候因为ADE产生强烈的免疫反应，这也是个假设。还是要看具体数据，这些新的病的人之前是否感染过病毒，如果这个数据不公布就没有讨论的意义
巴西感觉疫情已经失控了，摊上这么个烂总统真没办法了。
请不要顾左右而言他，请你正面回答你说的巴西疫苗打得最多是不是事实？
那我说错了，不过这观点和ade没关系，有疑虑也是正常的，毕竟新病毒新疫苗么。一般疫苗研究十几年上市了大家都还会想观望一阵，火气别那么大
希望是多虑了啊，大家都lockdown烦了，毕竟疫苗直接打进血液里要是不好的话也可能对免疫系统有影响，有点顾虑也正常啊
主要这mrna疫苗也是新技术，真像他们说的那么神不应该早就有一些product上市了么，虽然之前也有很多年的研究但没有成熟，广泛应用的成品，让人有顾虑
一唱一和很高兴吗？屏蔽了。
谢谢科普，带节奏的这下发现引火烧身了
隔壁疫苗专家昨天还说ade基本不存在
是啊 我被隔壁疫苗专家天天说 你这种外行 blablabla
可我到现在也没看出她有多内行
前半段有同感
后半段也是我的怀疑🤨
是啊
yeah
其实这样已经很久了
Very informative, thank you.
请问j&j和novavax的疫苗是T1还是T2免疫啊？谢谢。
关于mRNA T1/T2免疫这个，您有source吗？想读一读。
另外看到一篇UCSF的文章，觉得比较中肯，分享一下：https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2021/01/419691/covid-19-vaccine-fact-vs-fiction-expert-weighs-common-fears
看来看去，那些喷子是真不懂，自己又打了，怕真的有ADE或者autoimmune disease这种长期的副作用，自己又不懂去查找文献，只能骂提出质疑的人泄愤，求得心理安慰
以上论点出自3/16 Med Page Today. 信不信大家自己判断。这里的讨论不包括中国疫苗。文中说“it may not even be worth mentioning.”
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/91648
ADE a Non-Issue With COVID Vaccines Scientists say that ADE is pretty much a non-issue with COVID-19 vaccines, but what are they basing this on?
From the early stages of COVID-19 vaccine development, scientists sought to target a SARS-CoV-2 protein that was least likely to cause ADE. For example, when they found out that targeting the nucleoprotein of SARS-CoV-2 might cause ADE, they quickly abandoned that approach. The safest route seemed to be targeting the S2 subunit of the spike protein, and they ran with that, wrote Derek Lowe, PhD, in his Science Translational Medicine blog "In the Pipeline." Scientists designed animal studies to look for ADE. They looked for it in human trials, and they’ve been looking for it in the real-world data for COVID-19 vaccines with emergency use authorization. So far, they haven‘t seen signs of it. In fact, the opposite is happening, Lowe noted. "[W]hat seems to be beyond doubt is that the vaccinated subjects, over and over, show up with no severe coronavirus cases and no hospitalizations. That is the opposite of what you would expect if ADE were happening," he wrote.
Furthermore, ADE is an acute problem, and it can be very dramatic. If it was an issue with these vaccines, we would have spotted it by now, said Brian Lichty, PhD, an associate professor in pathology and molecular medicine at McMaster University in Toronto. "It’ll kill you quickly. In all the places I‘m aware of ADE happening, it is an acute, mostly cytokine-driven event," he told MedPage Today. The one exception may be an inactivated whole-cell, or "killed," vaccine developed by China. That vaccine uses alum, the same adjuvant that was used in the measles and RSV vaccines that caused ADE in the 1960s. The Chinese inactivated whole-cell vaccine could "conceivably" generate ADE like those older vaccines, according to Bloom. "I don’t think that vaccine is ever going to see the light of day in the U.S., and it may not even be worth mentioning. There have been no actual cases of ADE with the Chinese whole-cell killed vaccine, or if so, it hasn‘t been reported," he said.
谢谢提供信息👍 翻译总结一下，就是科学家在研发的mRNA疫苗时候，尽可能避免ADE是重点考虑因素之一。选取的靶点是最小程度产生ADE的。
对于中国疫苗，文中的描述是中国疫苗应该不会在美国通过，所以因此不用过多讨论。灭活疫苗理论上有可能导致ADE，不过目前为止，中国疫苗也没有产生的报导。
楼主引的文章和ADE没任何关系。那是一篇讨论mutation的文章
中国人希望全世界水深火热疫苗无效跪求中国，这难道不是常识么？
如果病毒不是从中国来的，这么想最多是猥琐，现在这种情况都不知道该用什么词形容了
我也读了这篇文章，但其中有一句话：“Throughout the pandemic, scientists have been looking for ADE associated with SARS-CoV-2, but so far they haven't found any cases of it, noted Lichty.”是明显不对的。武汉当初有大批病人死于免疫风暴，不知道这位Lichty从哪里得出的结论。
总的来说文章讲的不错。
人家说的是ADE，你扯免疫风暴？你是不是觉得 ADE = 免疫风暴？
武汉是有病人死于免疫风暴， 但那些显然都是初次感染。ADE是指经自然感染或接种某种疫苗以后，可能 产生某些“不好”的抗体反而加重感染，是二次感染时才会出现的。
嗯 二次感染的时候会更快
N的疫苗是T1的，但是别的楼主提出佐剂要用树皮，没法满足需求。J&J是用人类腺病毒载体的DNA疫苗，T1应该也是高的，主要是很多人对腺病毒免疫了，导致DNA还没刺激免疫反应就被干掉了，导致疫苗免疫不完全。牛津的是用猩猩的腺病毒来避免这个情况发生，但是好像不良反应跟人类腺病毒不一样。
我也是看了很多大神的文章学到的，你如果Google 可以找到很多的。我只是简单的描述了一下结论而已。
他把武汉换成巴西Manaus 就对了
西班牙大流感第一波就是年轻人死得多， 也没有看到第二波死的是已经得过的第一波的年轻人
第一波是老人多吧，第二波才是青壮年
他们说不出个所以然，又怕你的言论动摇他们的老底，所以先拼个声音响罢了。不用理会
天是不是塌下来，大家都是成年人，自有判断。你不同意就说出理由，不用咋咋唬唬。
不要以己度人
心眼，可以开阔点吗，三岁小孩吵架才比来比去吧。
希望全球都快点脱离新冠危险。
理由已经说了几百遍了，你不接受，反咬一口别人没给你理由。你说别人能怎么看你这种人？
它不要face人所共知，带着爹蹭打美国疫苗，又大骂美国，被人打脸无数次了
谢谢，再请问一下，为什么很多人对腺病毒已经免疫了？哪类人群呢？
From Wiki: 人类腺病毒（HAd）约有57种血清型，占儿童5%到10%及大多数成年人的上呼吸道感染的成因 就是大多数成年人都感染过。
我说出了至少是我认知中的真相，一般人也就同意或者不同意，你们这样狂犬般的咬我也不知道你们吃了什么药．
我所有的帖子，一条也没有删过，行得正，站得端，你们无非是因为说不出所以然，或者是我侵害了你的什么利益，所以给我盖帽子，搞莫须有，像文革的批斗一样。
可惜时代变了，可悲你们没有变。
完了完了
是的 立场或想法不同很正常 咬住人乱吠的有点懵
科学的来说 你反对或赞同 至少给个解释吧
常见一种简单粗暴的“你不懂 你外行”
这个做法谁都可以啊 可是对推进大众认知毫无帮助
这个消息年初就散布过了 呵呵
现在估计早有了新变异了