觉得大家应该冷静一下。我们就选一个大选作弊最有名的案例，讨论一下双方的证据，看看这个到底是不是作弊，怎么样？ 我提议看看那个video from fulton county georgia。上面的层主已经提到这个案例。我引用一下： Video footage
from election night shows several poll workers in Fulton County, Georgia, pulling out ballot boxes from underneath a table covered by a table cloth and repeatedly scanning the same stack of ballots at least 3 times. They did this after poll observers were falsely informed that counting had finished, which led them to leave the building. 那么反方怎么说的呢？搜索“video from fulton county georgia”出来的第一个网页是这样说的： This story is provided by FactCheck.org. The Trump campaign is falsely claiming that surveillance camera footage captured election workers in Georgia adding thousands of illegal ballots that were brought into an Atlanta facility in suspicious “suitcases” on election night. The campaign
presented the video
to Georgia state lawmakers on Dec. 3. President Donald Trump’s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, wrote on Twitter the same day: “The video tape doesn’t lie. Fulton County Democrats stole the election. It’s now beyond doubt.” But state officials told us that the full video shows the supposed “suitcases” were actually standard containers used to secure ballots, and that the ballots in question were opened and prepared for counting earlier in the night in full view of observers. They said the campaign presented limited, selective parts of the footage. That’s based on their review of the day’s video footage in full. Also, even though observers from the parties and press left the room before vote counting resumed, officials said, a state election board monitor and investigator from the Secretary of State’s office both returned to watch the counting until its completion. Left unclear, though, is whether the observers and news media who were in the room were ever told by any election worker, explicitly or implicitly, to leave because the vote counting had ceased, as we’ll explain. Republicans allege that happened. Fulton County’s election director has disputed that claim. No ‘Suitcases’ in Video The video in question — which has been widely shared across social media — was presented to Georgia state legislators during the Dec. 3 hearing by a lawyer named Jacki Pick, who said she was volunteering for Trump’s legal team. Pick said the team had received the footage the night before. Pick said the video shows observers and the press leaving a room at Atlanta’s State Farm Arena, which was used to count absentee and military ballots, shortly before 11 p.m. She claimed that, according to witnesses, a woman had told the observers and press that “we’re going to stop counting, everyone go home.” She pointed out that many of the elections workers had left for the night in the video, but four workers are seen in the video staying behind to continue counting. “Once everyone is gone, coast is clear, they are going to pull ballots out from underneath a table – watch this table,” she said at the hearing. “I saw four suitcases come out from underneath the table.” The video shows the counting continued until nearly 1 a.https://m., she said. But the supposed “suitcases” were typical ballot containers used to secure ballots, Georgia’s Deputy Secretary of State Jordan Fuchs told us in a phone interview. Likewise, Matthew Mashburn, the state Senate’s appointee to the state election board, told us the video showed “standard secure containers that are ubiquitous in tabulation in Georgia.” And Gabriel Sterling, the state’s voting system implementation manager, said that the full video showed that the containers were carrying ballots that were opened and processed earlier in the night. They weren’t suspicious ballots brought surreptitiously into the building, or ballots that were opened in secret. “They were put in there about an hour earlier,” Sterling, a Republican, said by phone. He said of the Trump campaign: “They watched the same video tape.” 系统提示：若遇到视频无法播放请点击下方链接 https://www.youtube.com/embed/https://platform.twitter.com/embed/index.html Sterling also said he saw no anomalies in the vote data that suggested any kind of mass voter fraud, as has been alleged. “These are just regular elections workers” doing their job, he said. While state law allows for observers to watch the vote counting, Sterling said, it was not illegal for the vote counting to resume when the observers left. He said his office was working on making the video footage from the arena public so that voters could see the footage with more context. Matter of Dispute What is clear from our interviews with state officials is that, at some point, the elections workers did evidently plan to stop counting votes. Fulton County Elections Director Rick Barron also made that clear during a special, virtual public meeting on Dec. 4. He said that “certain staff that were on the cutting stations, that were on the flattening stations, that were extracting from the inner envelopes, those staff left as work completed.” “I found out sometime, I think a little after 10:30 [p.m.], that they were gonna cease operations and I told them not to do that,” he said. He added that at “about 11:15 [p.m.], they were fully scanning again.” While Pick claimed that witnesses said they were told to leave, Barron said that “no announcement was ever made to leave, for anyone to leave.” State officials, however, said they couldn’t definitely say whether that occurred. “We have launched an investigation into why the monitors from the political parties left before scanning ended,” the Secretary of State’s office said in a statement. “While it was their right to leave early, we want to make certain they were not misled into thinking scanning had stopped for the night when it had not. Nothing we have learned from the independent monitor or our investigation have suggested any improper ballots were scanned.” Sterling said it did not appear there was any official announcement made to the observers or press, but there’s no audio to prove that one way or another. Pick didn’t respond to our request to see the affidavits she said supported her claim. While Pick is listed as a lawyer by the State Bar of Texas, she appears to work primarily as a conservative podcast host. She and her husband, Doug Deason, are major Republican donors. Also, there’s no evidence that a “water main break” inside the arena earlier that day had anything to do with the observers and press leaving, as some have claimed. One of Trump’s sons, Eric Trump, wrote on Facebook that “Republican observers were cleared out of State Farm Arena due to a ‘water main break’, but 4 people stayed behind, rolled out suitcases of ballots, & continue to count ballots in private from around 1030PM until 1AM.” But the water leak occurred at 6:07 a.m. on Election Day, according to the arena, and it was fixed within two hours — meaning it occurred long before the episode in question. Debunked Ballot Figures During the legislative hearing, Pick maintained that the votes counted in the room after observers left could have been enough to change the presidential election results in Georgia. Pick theorized that the machines in the room could have totaled “18,000 ballots.” (Biden won the state by less than 12,000 votes.) But that’s wrong, according to the state election board monitor who was in the room as they counted. The monitor — who agreed to be interviewed on the condition of not being named due to death threats faced by election workers — told us he was in the room until about 8:15 p.https://m., when he left, and returned at 11:52 p.m. Fuchs, the deputy secretary of state, told us the monitor was not required to be there at all times, but she instructed him to return after hearing from news outlets that the county was going to cease counting for the night. The monitor arrived at 11:52 p.m. — after the observers left shortly before 11 p.m. — and stayed until the counting ceased at 12:43 a.m. Between 8:15 p.m. and 12:43 a.https://m., the change in total ballots went from 89,381 ballots to 99,133 ballots — so a difference of 9,752 votes — he said. And, again, that’s over the course of more than four hours, not just the time after observers and media left. The footage is not the first to spark claims of fraud in Georgia. We also wrote about a video showing an election worker conducting an ordinary part of the recount process in Gwinnett County that prompted false claims. The videos have been part of a surge of falsehoods aimed at undermining the results of the 2020 election, as we’ve reported. Saranac Hale Spencer contributed to this report.
我觉得两边比较一下，可以看出 喊作弊的给出证据很少。没有采访当事人，没有引用所谓作弊方的话。（采访当事人，引用正反和反方的理由，这些是新闻报道标准的做法） 反对作弊的一方采访了当事人，也引用了川普方的话。比如其中提到“Pick didn’t respond to our request to see the affidavits she said supported her claim“。 这个是当地电视台的报道。就算华盛顿都是腐败，一般来说每个地方的电视台应该不是那么容易被收买吧？ 好了，请喊作弊方给出证据吧？
我觉得两边比较一下，可以看出 喊作弊的给出证据很少。没有采访当事人，没有引用所谓作弊方的话。（采访当事人，引用正反和反方的理由，这些是新闻报道标准的做法） 反对作弊的一方采访了当事人，也引用了川普方的话。比如其中提到“Pick didn’t respond to our request to see the affidavits she said supported her claim“。 这个是当地电视台的报道。就算华盛顿都是腐败，一般来说每个地方的电视台应该不是那么容易被收买吧？ 好了，请喊作弊方给出证据吧？ us978 发表于 2021-01-24 04:11
Again,这事情有关大选，是需要fbI 提审证人的，去深入调研。整整两个月就举个录像。没有官方调研。 fbi cia 警局干啥去了？犯罪的人拿原告随便告告出示他认为的证据就好了，警局可以关门了。 大选舞弊这么重要的事情，没有任何fbi cia 警局调查不可疑吗？就川普律师团成团举录像？我还是那句话，如果所有这些部门都背叛了川普，他也确实没有理由再连任下去了。 整整四年搞的所有部门都反叛他，这能力怎么做总统？ 怎么也应该扶植几个心腹的。你别说他花了四年时间排干沼泽，最后全部是沼泽，毛也没排掉吧
我觉得两边比较一下，可以看出 喊作弊的给出证据很少。没有采访当事人，没有引用所谓作弊方的话。（采访当事人，引用正反和反方的理由，这些是新闻报道标准的做法） 反对作弊的一方采访了当事人，也引用了川普方的话。比如其中提到“Pick didn’t respond to our request to see the affidavits she said supported her claim“。 这个是当地电视台的报道。就算华盛顿都是腐败，一般来说每个地方的电视台应该不是那么容易被收买吧？ 好了，请喊作弊方给出证据吧？ us978 发表于 2021-01-24 04:11
调查报告这种东西，给我十万块我也可以雇几个枪手给你写一个。 美国是一个country of law, 不是country of propagada。司法部，FBI，两位数的法官（很多还是他委任的），一个在任的总统没法通过这些体制内的渠道拿出任何东西来，那我只能认为这事情要么基本是谣言，要不根本没有你想象那么大。 我知道你要说deep state。那等你说出来我再跟你吵
Again,这事情有关大选，是需要fbI 提审证人的，去深入调研。整整两个月就举个录像。没有官方调研。 fbi cia 警局干啥去了？犯罪的人拿原告随便告告出示他认为的证据就好了，警局可以关门了。 大选舞弊这么重要的事情，没有任何fbi cia 警局调查不可疑吗？就川普律师团成团举录像？我还是那句话，如果所有这些部门都背叛了川普，他也确实没有理由再连任下去了。 整整四年搞的所有部门都反叛他，这能力怎么做总统？ 怎么也应该扶植几个心腹的。你别说他花了四年时间排干沼泽，最后全部是沼泽，毛也没排掉吧 crystal007 发表于 2021-01-24 04:31
须然我们都认为大选没有作弊。但是我认为FBI，CIA不一定要介入这次调查。 不是每一次有人大喊作弊就需要FBI介入的。哪怕这个人是美国总统。这正好体现了美国的法制和秩序（law and order)。总统喊作弊，也必须拿出证据，证据不充分，也不需要刑事调查。总统如果觉得不公平，可以到法院告。这是三权分离的基本要求。 试想如果总统喊作弊，美国就动用全国的警力来展开大调查，这和中国党的领导一下号召，全国上下一盘棋有什么区别？
转发网贴：是反思的时候了💞
大选让我睁开眼睛 ********************* 美国大选尘埃落定，记录一下我认识上的改变。
四年前，我从未怀疑过主流媒体的新闻；这一次，我跟踪了民主党初选及总统大选，领教了大多数主流媒体的断章取义、谎话连篇，从新闻报道沦落为站台宣传。
四年前，我以为华盛顿的政客们大多是因为有政治抱负而从政，一心为国为民；四年后，我看到他们大多是为党派利益、个人私利和前途，勾心斗角，相互扯皮。
四年前我以为法律面前人人平等；现在才知道犯罪证据可以被执法部门深藏不露，犯不犯罪不重要，追不追究才重要。
四年前我以为美国的选举是神圣的，为自己可以投一票而骄傲；四年后，我知道了投票的人不重要，数票的人才重要。一场有争议的球赛都要调多少不同角度的录相来调查、仲裁，而辅天盖地的选举舞弊，却没有法院受理。
四年前我为美国的言论自由而骄傲，美国人居然可以骂总统；四年后的政坛和大科技公司让我胆战心惊，这个总统只能反对，不能赞成，否则封号禁言，且小心秋后算帐。
四年前我以为美国的三权分立制度多么稳定可靠；四年后我认识到，制度的运行依靠谦卑、有敬畏、有信仰的官员和国民。美国的強大是基于信仰，美国的衰落始于对信仰的离弃。离弃得越远，衰落得越快。
四年前，我以为自由灯塔会永不熄灭，自己也享受得理所当然；四年后，里根总统的话让我振聋发聩： “自由距它的灭绝不过一代之遥。 我们没有办法把自由通过血脉传给子孙。我们必须为它而战，保护它，将它交到后代手上，而我们的后代也必须做同样的事情。否则有一天，我们将在暮年告诉我们的孩子，我们孩子的孩子，曾经自由的美国是什么样子。”
从沉睡中醒来是痛苦的，但我不后悔，我仍然选择清醒地生活。现在我开始思考，我没有为这个国家的自由付出过多少努力，我凭什么心安理得地享受？是到了自己该做点什么的时候，为了自己，也为了自己的孩子们还能做自由人。
比邻而居于2021年1月20日晚
同样是美国，不过我观察了4n 年，而且走遍美国大地。固然美国有很多重大缺陷，与大陆相比实在好太多，所以我一直持感恩的心。原作者站在川普的立场取舍事实，我以为过于偏激。
真是，还老扯什么信仰。那个大bully有个p的信仰，倒是一帮黄川粉信仰坚定，到现在还做死忠粉。
脑子糊住了，睁开眼也是睁眼瞎，白活了
GOOD !
我个人是强烈怀疑川普是因为作弊输的，有些事情确实看起来很drama
但是楼主转的文章，我也是看不下去一些川粉的逻辑，几个事实：
关于Hunter的罪证，朱利安尼可是在手上拿了很久，如果真有什么铁证，在大选前爆出对拜登的杀伤力很大，但是实际上爆来爆去都只有隐隐约约的东西，没啥真材实料；你说FBI被收买深藏犯罪材料我无法判断，但是朱利安尼为啥不拿出真材实料了？ 关于投票假票的问题，虽然我也是强烈怀疑假票很多，但是现在的事实是川普任命的司法部长，川普推选的大法官，没有人站出来表示看到了可以翻盘的证据；所有川普自己看好的人都和他做对，这个能说明啥？ 有可能做假票很有水平，但是确实川粉现在拿出来的各种证据太搞笑，有的人拿着一个新闻里面突然几千票从川普转移到拜登的录像当证据，最简单一个问题，有人规定电视转播时候不能出任何错误么？你说票转过去了，那么最后的票找到了没？ 关于1月6日要求Pence拒绝结果就更搞笑了，这事情上Pence就是一个主持人，你让主持人拒绝投票结果？那选举人的权利何在？美国的立国基础是宪法，所谓法律，从来都只能看证据，无法追求完全正确。所以这个事情上我是很敬重Pence的，他确实顶住了很大的压力，做了维护宪法的事情。
作弊证据太多了，那么多场听证会你没看吗？给你贴几个大选作弊证据的网站和调查报告，有机会看看。还有那个电视现场转播switch votes的现象在GA run off 同样出现了，而且以前的选举中也出现过，雷同的是这些“错误”都favor民主党，真是有趣啊，为什么所有的不管人为还是机器的“错误”都这么巧地favor某党，哈哈。
https://2020electionirregularities.com/ https://www.wethepeopleconvention.org/articles/Navarro-Fraud-Report
这些证据都是最最表面证据。整整两个月川普有没有派fbi去深入调查的证据？ 所有都是最表面而没有官方fbi警局调查结果。任何刑事犯罪你拿着个录像法官也不接受啊。
那么这两个月fbi cia 警察干啥去了？所有人都反对他的话，那他也确实不用连任了。干了四年最后结果是所有机关都反对他？！
川普有自己人吗？一个政治素人怎么可能在政治深潭中有自己人！
真傻假傻？川普派FBI表查？
红脖子，BLM，白左精英不约而同地啐你一脸，齐声喝到：你丫也配！
你会中国，不就好了。
强烈同意！👍
成，如果川普做了四年总统都找不到一个司法机构来调查大选舞弊这事，那么他凭啥能连任？ 他这四年干啥去了？一个挺自己的机构都培养不出来？ 所有人都叛变他。 你还指望他能拯救谁？！
他4 年来造的泥潭别人要40年才行。
作为一个中间派旁观者，我觉得最大的关键就是作弊不能证伪，所以不能服众，因为大家都不傻。 川普59个案子上诉被驳回，并不能证伪。 就像班级里同学张三去老师那里告状说李四王五打他，老师只是说去去去你们的事情我不管，其实并不能证明李四王五没有打他。对不对？同样道理。
谁主张谁举证。这个基本的法理民主法制灯塔照耀下的拥趸居然不知道？ 不然像独运轮那样嘴巴一张一合一天造几百个谣，被污蔑者就天天给自己证清白不过日子了？
谁都不是傻子！
谁傻谁不傻大家心里有数，真傻装傻的那些人心里没数上帝都帮不了。 不服就就干，暴力革命是唯一出路，没胆就只能忍着4年后懂王翻身吧
我提议看看那个video from fulton county georgia。上面的层主已经提到这个案例。我引用一下：
Video footage
那么反方怎么说的呢？搜索“video from fulton county georgia”出来的第一个网页是这样说的：
This story is provided by FactCheck.org. The Trump campaign is falsely claiming that surveillance camera footage captured election workers in Georgia adding thousands of illegal ballots that were brought into an Atlanta facility in suspicious “suitcases” on election night. The campaign
“Once everyone is gone, coast is clear, they are going to pull ballots out from underneath a table – watch this table,” she said at the hearing. “I saw four suitcases come out from underneath the table.” The video shows the counting continued until nearly 1 a.https://m., she said. But the supposed “suitcases” were typical ballot containers used to secure ballots, Georgia’s Deputy Secretary of State Jordan Fuchs told us in a phone interview. Likewise, Matthew Mashburn, the state Senate’s appointee to the state election board, told us the video showed “standard secure containers that are ubiquitous in tabulation in Georgia.” And Gabriel Sterling, the state’s voting system implementation manager, said that the full video showed that the containers were carrying ballots that were opened and processed earlier in the night. They weren’t suspicious ballots brought surreptitiously into the building, or ballots that were opened in secret. “They were put in there about an hour earlier,” Sterling, a Republican, said by phone. He said of the Trump campaign: “They watched the same video tape.”
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Sterling also said he saw no anomalies in the vote data that suggested any kind of mass voter fraud, as has been alleged. “These are just regular elections workers” doing their job, he said. While state law allows for observers to watch the vote counting, Sterling said, it was not illegal for the vote counting to resume when the observers left. He said his office was working on making the video footage from the arena public so that voters could see the footage with more context. Matter of Dispute What is clear from our interviews with state officials is that, at some point, the elections workers did evidently plan to stop counting votes. Fulton County Elections Director Rick Barron also made that clear during a special, virtual public meeting on Dec. 4. He said that “certain staff that were on the cutting stations, that were on the flattening stations, that were extracting from the inner envelopes, those staff left as work completed.” “I found out sometime, I think a little after 10:30 [p.m.], that they were gonna cease operations and I told them not to do that,” he said. He added that at “about 11:15 [p.m.], they were fully scanning again.” While Pick claimed that witnesses said they were told to leave, Barron said that “no announcement was ever made to leave, for anyone to leave.” State officials, however, said they couldn’t definitely say whether that occurred. “We have launched an investigation into why the monitors from the political parties left before scanning ended,” the Secretary of State’s office said in a statement. “While it was their right to leave early, we want to make certain they were not misled into thinking scanning had stopped for the night when it had not. Nothing we have learned from the independent monitor or our investigation have suggested any improper ballots were scanned.” Sterling said it did not appear there was any official announcement made to the observers or press, but there’s no audio to prove that one way or another. Pick didn’t respond to our request to see the affidavits she said supported her claim. While Pick is listed as a lawyer by the State Bar of Texas, she appears to work primarily as a conservative podcast host. She and her husband, Doug Deason, are major Republican donors. Also, there’s no evidence that a “water main break” inside the arena earlier that day had anything to do with the observers and press leaving, as some have claimed. One of Trump’s sons, Eric Trump, wrote on Facebook that “Republican observers were cleared out of State Farm Arena due to a ‘water main break’, but 4 people stayed behind, rolled out suitcases of ballots, & continue to count ballots in private from around 1030PM until 1AM.” But the water leak occurred at 6:07 a.m. on Election Day, according to the arena, and it was fixed within two hours — meaning it occurred long before the episode in question. Debunked Ballot Figures During the legislative hearing, Pick maintained that the votes counted in the room after observers left could have been enough to change the presidential election results in Georgia. Pick theorized that the machines in the room could have totaled “18,000 ballots.” (Biden won the state by less than 12,000 votes.) But that’s wrong, according to the state election board monitor who was in the room as they counted. The monitor — who agreed to be interviewed on the condition of not being named due to death threats faced by election workers — told us he was in the room until about 8:15 p.https://m., when he left, and returned at 11:52 p.m. Fuchs, the deputy secretary of state, told us the monitor was not required to be there at all times, but she instructed him to return after hearing from news outlets that the county was going to cease counting for the night. The monitor arrived at 11:52 p.m. — after the observers left shortly before 11 p.m. — and stayed until the counting ceased at 12:43 a.m. Between 8:15 p.m. and 12:43 a.https://m., the change in total ballots went from 89,381 ballots to 99,133 ballots — so a difference of 9,752 votes — he said. And, again, that’s over the course of more than four hours, not just the time after observers and media left. The footage is not the first to spark claims of fraud in Georgia. We also wrote about a video showing an election worker conducting an ordinary part of the recount process in Gwinnett County that prompted false claims. The videos have been part of a surge of falsehoods aimed at undermining the results of the 2020 election, as we’ve reported. Saranac Hale Spencer contributed to this report.
这个是当地电视台的报道。就算华盛顿都是腐败，一般来说每个地方的电视台应该不是那么容易被收买吧？
好了，请喊作弊方给出证据吧？
Again,这事情有关大选，是需要fbI 提审证人的，去深入调研。整整两个月就举个录像。没有官方调研。 fbi cia 警局干啥去了？犯罪的人拿原告随便告告出示他认为的证据就好了，警局可以关门了。
大选舞弊这么重要的事情，没有任何fbi cia 警局调查不可疑吗？就川普律师团成团举录像？我还是那句话，如果所有这些部门都背叛了川普，他也确实没有理由再连任下去了。 整整四年搞的所有部门都反叛他，这能力怎么做总统？ 怎么也应该扶植几个心腹的。你别说他花了四年时间排干沼泽，最后全部是沼泽，毛也没排掉吧
恰恰相反，这次选举我倒是看到了美国政治的robustness：
任何一个国家，当最高领导人要离开体制，走民粹甚至群众运动的道路，都会是一场巨大的社会动荡。美国以极少的流血动荡，以及极快的速度获得了足够的反对民粹和反群众运动的社会共识（商界、政界、学界）。而且这个国家仍然在反思，如何在体制内协调各方的立场。而这一切完全不需要外力的介入。
反对党依然合法，现在没有一个议员进监狱或者被下毒，反对党的报纸还能办下去。我对这个国家的政治力还是充满信心的。
你说反对就禁言，但除了川普本人和他身边个位数的几个人之外谁又真正被禁言了？川普是总统，对普通公民的言论自由其实对他不适用。即使是朱利安尼，也是能自由的通过电视发声的。而且这件事情我觉得twitter做的有点过了，但这和支持体制外的群众运动有本质区别。
另外补充的说一句：中文自媒体所谓的好文推荐其实多半都不怎么样。微信群里的那些玩意百分之八十以上都是臭狗屎。以至于就算是好文章，加上这几个字都很倒胃口。 楼主如果觉得想好好论证你的观点，我倒是建议把这个前面的几个字去掉。
没有合法监票的开票结果是有效的吗？这是问题的关键。
调查报告这种东西，给我十万块我也可以雇几个枪手给你写一个。 美国是一个country of law, 不是country of propagada。司法部，FBI，两位数的法官（很多还是他委任的），一个在任的总统没法通过这些体制内的渠道拿出任何东西来，那我只能认为这事情要么基本是谣言，要不根本没有你想象那么大。
我知道你要说deep state。那等你说出来我再跟你吵
我认为川普只是投机了一把。论信仰什么的，彭斯蓬佩奥这些人都比他强一百倍。 而且信仰是一个需要警惕的东西：大家可以思考一下为什么美国宪法直接rule out了任何立国教的可能。
这个帐号让大伙给他捐钱，现金不行，要比特币。。。
我已经列出了证据，也就是我能找到的事实，再得出了观点。请问你说“没有合法监票“的事实在哪里？
须然我们都认为大选没有作弊。但是我认为FBI，CIA不一定要介入这次调查。
不是每一次有人大喊作弊就需要FBI介入的。哪怕这个人是美国总统。这正好体现了美国的法制和秩序（law and order)。总统喊作弊，也必须拿出证据，证据不充分，也不需要刑事调查。总统如果觉得不公平，可以到法院告。这是三权分离的基本要求。
试想如果总统喊作弊，美国就动用全国的警力来展开大调查，这和中国党的领导一下号召，全国上下一盘棋有什么区别？