UK scientists worry vaccines may not protect against S.African coronavirus variant https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-south-afri/uk-scientists-worried-vaccines-may-not-work-on-s-african-coronavirus-variant-itv-idINKBN2990T3 LONDON (Reuters) - UK scientists expressed concern on Monday that COVID-19 vaccines being rolled out in Britain may not be able to protect against a new variant of the coronavirus that emerged in South Africa and has spread internationally. Both Britain and South Africa have detected new, more transmissible variants of the COVID-19-causing virus in recent weeks that have driven a surge in cases. British Health Secretary Matt Hancock said on Monday he was now very worried about the variant identified in South Africa. Simon Clarke, an associate professor in cellular microbiology at the University of Reading, said that while both variants had some new features in common, the one found in South Africa “has a number additional mutations ... which are concerning”. He said these included more extensive alterations to a key part of the virus known as the spike protein - which the virus uses to infect human cells - and “may make the virus less susceptible to the immune response triggered by the vaccines”. Lawrence Young, a virologist and professor of molecular oncology at Warwick University, also noted that the South African variant has “multiple spike mutations”. “The accumulation of more spike mutations in the South African variant are more of a concern and could lead to some escape from immune protection,” he said. Scientists including BioNTech CEO Ugur Sahin and John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine at the University of Oxford, have said they are testing the vaccines against the new variants and say they could make any required tweaks in around six weeks. ...... Oxford’s Bell, who advises the UK government’s vaccine task force, said on Sunday he thought vaccines would work on the British variant but said there was a “big question mark” as to whether they would work on the South African variant. BioNTech’s Sahin told Germany’ Spiegel in an interview published on Friday that their vaccine, which uses messenger RNA to instruct the human immune system to fight the virus, should be able to protect against the UK variant. “We are testing whether our vaccine can also neutralise this variant and will soon know more,” he said.
看不懂路透的可以看每日邮报的 通俗易懂 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9110847/Matt-Hancock-worried-super-infectious-South-African-coronavirus-mutation.html Matt Hancock today revealed he is 'incredibly worried' about the highly-infectious South African coronavirus mutation which top experts fear could scupper Britain's vaccine roll-out. The Health Secretary warned the variant — which has already been spotted in the UK — posed a 'very, very significant problem'. His comments came after one of the Government's coronavirus advisers yesterday claimed there was a 'big question mark' over whether any of the current wave of jabs could protect against the mutant strain. Sir John Bell, regius professor of medicine at Oxford University, argued the South African variant was more concerning than the Kent one because it has 'pretty substantial changes in the structure of the protein', meaning vaccines could fail to work. Covid vaccines — including the Pfizer/BioNTech and Oxford University/AstraZeneca jabs currently being rolled out across Britain — work by training the body to spot the virus's spike protein. If the spike mutates so much that it becomes unrecognisable then it could render vaccines useless or make them less potent. However, the current vaccines are believed to be effective against the Kent strain which is causing a massive spike in cases across the UK.
UK scientists worry vaccines may not protect against S.African coronavirus variant https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-south-afri/uk-scientists-worried-vaccines-may-not-work-on-s-african-coronavirus-variant-itv-idINKBN2990T3 LONDON (Reuters) - UK scientists expressed concern on Monday that COVID-19 vaccines being rolled out in Britain may not be able to protect against a new variant of the coronavirus that emerged in South Africa and has spread internationally. Both Britain and South Africa have detected new, more transmissible variants of the COVID-19-causing virus in recent weeks that have driven a surge in cases. British Health Secretary Matt Hancock said on Monday he was now very worried about the variant identified in South Africa. Simon Clarke, an associate professor in cellular microbiology at the University of Reading, said that while both variants had some new features in common, the one found in South Africa “has a number additional mutations ... which are concerning”. He said these included more extensive alterations to a key part of the virus known as the spike protein - which the virus uses to infect human cells - and “may make the virus less susceptible to the immune response triggered by the vaccines”. Lawrence Young, a virologist and professor of molecular oncology at Warwick University, also noted that the South African variant has “multiple spike mutations”. “The accumulation of more spike mutations in the South African variant are more of a concern and could lead to some escape from immune protection,” he said. Scientists including BioNTech CEO Ugur Sahin and John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine at the University of Oxford, have said they are testing the vaccines against the new variants and say they could make any required tweaks in around six weeks. ...... Oxford’s Bell, who advises the UK government’s vaccine task force, said on Sunday he thought vaccines would work on the British variant but said there was a “big question mark” as to whether they would work on the South African variant. BioNTech’s Sahin told Germany’ Spiegel in an interview published on Friday that their vaccine, which uses messenger RNA to instruct the human immune system to fight the virus, should be able to protect against the UK variant. “We are testing whether our vaccine can also neutralise this variant and will soon know more,” he said.
Newswise — Posts claiming that the COVID-19 vaccine will lead to more severe disease went viral on social media platforms (examples here and here). The claim is based on the observation of more severe disease occurring in individuals who received vaccines such as the one for dengue fever. In a 2018 study, scientists at La Jolla Institute for Immunologyshowed that newborn mouse pups harboring anti-Zika antibodies were more vulnerable to death from dengue exposure than mice that lacked anti-Zika antibodies. This likely due to a phenomenon known as antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). However, ADE has not been shown to occur in individuals that received COVID-19 vaccines to date.
疫苗都是US出的，怎么可能不盯着。不知道是不是政治原因不报道出来，平稳过渡期间只出好消息，再者西方人想法做法更接近大自然let it run its course, 自然群免。现在英国闯关失败，美国趟进雷区，就指着疫苗救难了。要是负面报道太多，社会会不稳定吧，都憋了一年了，接近奔溃。 Viviennedd 发表于 2021-01-05 11:15
LONDON (Reuters) - UK scientists expressed concern on Monday that COVID-19 vaccines being rolled out in Britain may not be able to protect against a new variant of the coronavirus that emerged in South Africa and has spread internationally.
Both Britain and South Africa have detected new, more transmissible variants of the COVID-19-causing virus in recent weeks that have driven a surge in cases. British Health Secretary Matt Hancock said on Monday he was now very worried about the variant identified in South Africa.
Simon Clarke, an associate professor in cellular microbiology at the University of Reading, said that while both variants had some new features in common, the one found in South Africa “has a number additional mutations ... which are concerning”.
He said these included more extensive alterations to a key part of the virus known as the spike protein - which the virus uses to infect human cells - and “may make the virus less susceptible to the immune response triggered by the vaccines”.
Lawrence Young, a virologist and professor of molecular oncology at Warwick University, also noted that the South African variant has “multiple spike mutations”.
“The accumulation of more spike mutations in the South African variant are more of a concern and could lead to some escape from immune protection,” he said.
Scientists including BioNTech CEO Ugur Sahin and John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine at the University of Oxford, have said they are testing the vaccines against the new variants and say they could make any required tweaks in around six weeks.
......
Oxford’s Bell, who advises the UK government’s vaccine task force, said on Sunday he thought vaccines would work on the British variant but said there was a “big question mark” as to whether they would work on the South African variant.
BioNTech’s Sahin told Germany’ Spiegel in an interview published on Friday that their vaccine, which uses messenger RNA to instruct the human immune system to fight the virus, should be able to protect against the UK variant.
“We are testing whether our vaccine can also neutralise this variant and will soon know more,” he said.
🔥 最新回帖
怎么封堵？像中国那样把人家的门焊接上？
3. 都到这阶段了 看变异与传播的速度 打与不打区别不大了 可能最后固定的打一大堆作用其实很小的东西
应该大家一起出门欢快的玩耍
这样可以加强疫苗保护广度，防止免疫逃逸几率。
好像听说过
两条腿走路不好吗？为什么一点不封堵
🛋️ 沙发板凳
Matt Hancock today revealed he is 'incredibly worried' about the highly-infectious South African coronavirus mutation which top experts fear could scupper Britain's vaccine roll-out. The Health Secretary warned the variant — which has already been spotted in the UK — posed a 'very, very significant problem'. His comments came after one of the Government's coronavirus advisers yesterday claimed there was a 'big question mark' over whether any of the current wave of jabs could protect against the mutant strain. Sir John Bell, regius professor of medicine at Oxford University, argued the South African variant was more concerning than the Kent one because it has 'pretty substantial changes in the structure of the protein', meaning vaccines could fail to work. Covid vaccines — including the Pfizer/BioNTech and Oxford University/AstraZeneca jabs currently being rolled out across Britain — work by training the body to spot the virus's spike protein. If the spike mutates so much that it becomes unrecognisable then it could render vaccines useless or make them less potent. However, the current vaccines are believed to be effective against the Kent strain which is causing a massive spike in cases across the UK.
我看到NYT上说uk的感染数涨得吓死人
你可以点进去看
简单说就是南非变种和英格兰变种（英国叫Kent变种）是独立平行进化出来的 但都有相同但一个变异位点--被认为是增强传染力的关键 但是南非变种其他地方变化的更多更负责-所以怀疑现有疫苗配方是否还能有效
目前看来BioNTech的对英国Kent变种是有效的（虽然有效性多高不知道）。因为英格兰圣诞前每85人中一个人新冠阳性。然而打过第一针疫苗的几十万人中只有几个人阳性（还可能是打针之前感染的）。所以可见非常有效。。。
当然也要考虑一个问题，就是英国疫苗priority1的是医护+超高龄老人。目前英国肆虐的集中在青少年和他们的家庭内。所以老人可能接触这样的传染源的概率比较低。。。
至少先把南非封了吧？。。。
uk已经早于我们开打mRNA疫苗了啊
这是旧闻了
死的还是老人多其实
这个旧闻现在炒作起来是因为之前压着不宣传。 那时候要迎合政府认为“学校safe,小孩得上了也unlikely传染家长“的宣传。。。 别忘了BBC是拿政府钱的。
你别关心UK了，你们加州现在的疫情更吓人，谁知道你们加州的病毒都变异成什么样了，你们加州的学校为啥现在想起要开学了？
谢注解
不知道啊
州长脑袋有包？
yeah 我觉得bbc还可以接受的
BBC内部也有好几派
不过这次施压学校关门 感觉BBC是站在labor这边了
我超级讨厌科尔宾
但是我觉得
如果去年工党赢了
绝对不会把疫情搞成这个鸟样
保守党里面far right就是防疫绊脚石！！！
这个真的是 时机太巧了
BBC里面有好几派 经常会不太一致。。。
在脱欧这里毕竟倾向留欧
但是其他问题上其实还比较 mix的 - 至少都是站在政府国家利益的这一边
我们可爱的首相前几个月还因为pret a manger 啊星巴克啊的压力下号召金融城回去工作呢。。。 LOL
这个机会很小吧？我们不可能为了疫苗飞国内的啊
哈哈， 我觉得工党上台也一个熊样，说不定更糟糕。
嗯嗯 ic
我觉得比我们的媒体有节操
我们的媒体说uk变异不值得关注
美国会上市印度产的灭活疫苗。这家股票还逆势大涨了今天：OCGN
嗷 那我去看看 之前没怎么关注 谢谢lz和其他同学的通报
这个事情和美国10月11月开始疯狂大涨其实挺一致的。。。
ok
去年这时候我觉得新西兰那个女的和科尔宾一路货色。。。 现在一看MMB
头皮发麻
这些都是theory 除非sample都拿出来测一遍
我就纳闷了 麻省谁不知道 麻省总医院过了河就是MIT 晒开膀子DNA测序估计比我们全英格兰加起来都牛逼。。。 咋不上呢。。。
打灭活疫苗？？呵呵。。。 一毛拿走。
好，等待。。。
这个。。。 我乱猜一下好了
moderna是谁家出的？mit和harvard其实就是一家啊
变异的话全免个啥？
理论上来说 可能有重新设计快的优势
但是会不会因为政治家们的一系列神操作变为劣势 俺们也不好说了
BioNTech说几周内就可以改配方 这个倒是不难
他们现在就应该赶紧开发针对南非和UK变种的疫苗了， 还在等什么？
well 怕成为猫捉老鼠一样吧
BioNTech圣诞前就在lab testing 针对UK变种的
讲真 南非的变化那么大。。。只能先堵上再说吧 现在还有个别国家没有封南非真是。。。
我觉得40%差不多了。因为美国现在明面数字已经感染了近10%了。 算上没检测的，20%差不多吧。等到下半年，30%估计有了。 那差不多就70%了。基本群免了。
如果抗体时限三个月，病毒变异，再次感染重症，群免不太可能了，等着病毒自然减退差不多。但是疫苗会不会造成道高一尺魔高一丈，谁都不知道。
病毒的变异已经宣布群免完全失败 现在是看mRNA疫苗能否跟得上病毒变异的步伐 否则人类等着慢慢消亡吧~ 如果西方还是这副吊儿郎当的样子，就先完蛋
看你怎么看了，mRNA 只是针对一个蛋白，当这个蛋白不变异的话很管用，抗体滴度高，但是一旦变异多了可能不管用了
灭活是整个病毒，很多种蛋白，一种完蛋了其他的多多少少还能顶一阵，但是每种蛋白的抗体滴度低
Mrna 的好处是变异了再造一个比较快，灭活费时费力。问题是再造了还需要clinical trial 吧，那样的话时间优势也不大
所以大家也不要看不上灭火的，有几种选择总比把鸡蛋放一篮子然后篮子砸了好
灭火本来就刚过60%， 如果最重要的S蛋白失效， 效率就会低于50%， 打还不如不打。
我开始乱猜，是否我们真的遇到sas 系列毒疫战？
我记得看过报告，疫苗对刚变异的病毒没问题的。要累积7，8年左右的病毒变异，原来的疫苗或药物才会失效，当时候再开发新的疫苗。
照你说的那岂不是就还好，美国都变异了几个月了，最糟糕也就这样了呗，我就在麻省，这里疫情在全美不是最差也不是最好，中不溜
多谢分享
跟我理解的基本一样，点赞
这个病毒，40%不可能群免。我猜测要打疫苗跟得过的总数至少要超过70%以上才行，然后20%左右的人不出门，总数超过90%
没有看到报道具体区别，只是说变异
顶个屁！你懂什么叫中和抗体么？以为是抗体就管用！
不是说灭活数据不可考么？而且灭活可能引起再感染的因子风暴。目前看什么疫苗都不好下定论。
maybe 其实英国政府就是把锅全部甩给变异流了 其实他们学校搞得不safe才是罪魁祸首 anyway 现在说啥也晚了
中和抗体可不只限于针对刺突蛋白的抗体。
这是不对的。。。如果spike protein有了大的变化的话，针对其他蛋白的抗体搞出ADE的可能性比“有点用”的可能性大多了。打过灭活疫苗的人最好祈祷S蛋白不要有大的突变。。。
我说这个楼咋这么神奇呢，SARS自己的灭活疫苗是有ADE的，保护作用为负数，进来一看热门回答第一个信誓旦旦地说SARS2的灭活疫苗能交叉保护实现对SARS的免疫。。。
这个改过配方后不需要重新实验吗？
好象是改配方可以简化很多手续审批，直接上临床
以我理解英国人的习性 专家+卫生大臣出来吹风 那就是真的南非变种有highly likely有不好的结果了 所以吹风
anyway 德国那边说再过两周就出结果了 等着看吧
一开始英国的突变也是搞得像世界末日一样，现在不是基本上都认为不影响疫苗了吗。等两周看看吧。
不太懂这个逻辑和背后的科学？ 灭活病毒为什么就不需要灭新的病毒变种来获得新的蛋白？用了新的病毒变种灭活后就不需要clinical trial? 这和针对新的变种重新设计mRNA片断 本质上无区别。mRNA疫苗应该更快而灵活。但是灭活疫苗不通过完整的trial就使用，这个是快。
为什么灭活疫苗会有多种蛋白？哪几种？哪种是对侵染人体细胞有作用的? 现在已知的所有病毒变种，99%产生的的spike protein是没突变的，因为病毒mRNA的个别位点突变并不一定会导致翻译出来的蛋白质变化。所以mRNA疫苗大概率还是会对变种有一定保护作用的。
找到南非变异的文章的preprint了
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.21.20248640v1
这个可不是空穴来风 几个epitopes都有变异了 逃逸是大概率事件
这个快速变异的产生可能和南非的艾滋病人口比较多还是有关系的 免疫力差的人比较多
在隔壁楼里说了一下 这其实和疫苗载体无关 主要是看target了哪些epitopes；target的少而变异的多，那就讨厌了。。。 而且疫苗即使可以修改，病毒也是可以继续进化的，所以严追死堵不让病毒进门才是正道啊
你可以看一下我在上面贴的preprint
南非这个strain就恰恰是几个变异点都在中和抗体识别的epitopes上 所以有点吓人
uk的变异本身不吓人，但是“会变异的这么快”是非常匪夷所思的，之前对新冠的认知是它不怎么变异，大多数变异都不产生生长优势
这个点在班上已经讨论过几次了……
这个是因为大家普遍假定新冠变异很慢
但这个假定最近被证伪了
南非也是学校的锅吗？
之前哪里看到文章说瑞德西韦和单抗的使用加快了病毒的变异
你可以搜一下uk mutation
https://elifesciences.org/articles/61312
关于中和抗体和变异
因为灭活疫苗是用整个蛋白诱导抗体
嗯
不懂就问，所以灭活疫苗反而会导致ADE效应？
灭活疫苗相当于病毒的焦尸。你的免疫系统只见过焦尸，等哪天看见了活病毒，可能觉得长得和焦尸又像又不像。免疫系统打开城门，操着为焦尸准备的三叉戟跑出去迎战活病毒迎战，可能会有几种结果:
如果针对焦尸的三叉戟对活病毒也管用，可以杀死不少活病毒，那就算这个灭活疫苗有用。
如果焦尸跟活病毒差太远，免疫系统见了活病毒压根认不出来，理都不理它，那就相当于这个灭活疫苗一点儿用都没有。
如果针对焦尸的三叉戟对活病毒不是那么给力，免疫系统出门迎敌被活病毒揍趴下了，那活病毒就可以趁势进城门了，这就算ADE了。
这个是仅仅是猜测还是有新冠的例子的呢？
The claim that COVID-19 vaccines will cause more severe disease through antibody-dependent enhancement is not yet supported
Fact Check By: Craig Jones, Newswise Truthfulness: Mostly False
Newswise — Posts claiming that the COVID-19 vaccine will lead to more severe disease went viral on social media platforms (examples here and here). The claim is based on the observation of more severe disease occurring in individuals who received vaccines such as the one for dengue fever. In a 2018 study, scientists at La Jolla Institute for Immunologyshowed that newborn mouse pups harboring anti-Zika antibodies were more vulnerable to death from dengue exposure than mice that lacked anti-Zika antibodies. This likely due to a phenomenon known as antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). However, ADE has not been shown to occur in individuals that received COVID-19 vaccines to date.
变异了，原来的不好用了，mRNA再造一个新的，不需要再clinical trial，把新的造出来扩大生产分发注射就完事了。
同理，变异了，原来的不好用了，灭活也是再灭个新的，不需要再clinical trial，同样是把新的造出来扩大生产分发注射就完事了。只是把新的造出来花的时间比mRNA久。
clinical trial的流程只需要最开始研发时走一遍，不需要反复来。人们每年打的流感疫苗都跟以前的不一样，但也不需要重新trial。
那流感要是ADE了呢？
木有trial不就没办法发现了？
流感没有ADE啊，每年打了flu shot的很多人也有感染flu。flu vaccine不能避免感染flu virus，但是确确实实是能减轻感染者的症状的
转帖：The South African strain has three mutations to the receptor binding domain, one of which is shared with UK but two of which (E484k and K417N) are not. Those appear to have antibody defeating effects.
南非病毒株的受体结合域有三个突变，其中一个与英国共享，但另外两个（E484k和K417N）不共享。这些突变似乎具有击败中和抗体的作用
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.23.424283v2
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.28.424451v1
From https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/kq978d/south_african_covid_strain_raises_growing_alarm/
反正SARS是有ADE的，SARS2目前还没发现。但是如果比如说今后哪个突变让新冠病毒能够感染macrophage了，我觉得出现ADE的概率挺大的。
当然从好的方面讲，引发ADE的突变会让人快速发展成重症肺炎失去活动能力，所以这样的突变传播能力不会太好。
你觉得变异快那是因为大家都盯着新冠病毒，有点风吹草动马上就谁都知道了。你要是盯着其他的RNA病毒的话会发现变异更快。。。
不过我觉得新冠病毒的Spike protein还没有完全稳定下来，还没找到一个传播能力最强的结构，所以不断会出现在进化上有优势的新突变。
抓住mm问一下，圣诞节那会儿有官员说强生疫苗大约会在一月底二月初发紧急许可，牛津疫苗大约要三四月份。关于强生疫苗的消息好像比较少，所以他的进展要比牛津快吗？
灭活的不用灭活新病毒变异株？
不仅SARS有ADE，SARS2的另外一个近亲MERS也有。按现在SARS2变异的pool的基数来说，我也觉得出现能造成ADE的变种只是时间问题。但这样的变种确实九成没有传播上的优势。
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要感谢uk和sa的
我们这里没人盯着
thanks！
疫苗都是US出的，怎么可能不盯着。不知道是不是政治原因不报道出来，平稳过渡期间只出好消息，再者西方人想法做法更接近大自然let it run its course, 自然群免。现在英国闯关失败，美国趟进雷区，就指着疫苗救难了。要是负面报道太多，社会会不稳定吧，都憋了一年了，接近奔溃。
Pfizer的配方是德国公司的啊 所以大家都在问他们。。。