Hydroxychloroquine not effective, time to 'move on:' White House coronavirus testing chief Giroir https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/03/hydroxychloroquine-not-effective-brett-giroir/5570944002/ The White House coronavirus task force member charged with coordinating the U.S. testing effort said Sunday the nation needs to "move on" from the debate over hydroxychloroquine, a drug which President Donald Trump has promoted as a COVID-19 treatment despite clear evidence that it is effective. Adm. Brett Giroir, assistant secretary of health and human services, said on NBC News' "Meet the Press" that "from a public health standpoint, at first, hydroxychloroquine looked very promising" but at "this point in time, there's been five randomized control, placebo-controlled trials that do not show any benefit to hydroxychloroquine." "So, at this point in time, we don't recommend that as a treatment. There's no evidence to show that it is," Giroir said. Trump first touted hydroxychloroquine as a potential treatment for COVID-19 at a March 19 task force news briefing after initial reports of its success, saying it "could be a game-changer." But Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said the evidence was "anecdotal" and cautioned that more trials were needed. Subsequent studies have not found the drug to be the cure Trump had hoped for and raised concerns about potential side effects among people with heart conditions. In April, the Food and Drug Administration issued a warning against using it outside of clinical trials, and last month the FDA revoked the emergency use authorization it had granted for the drug. Yet, Trump has cast doubt on his own public health experts' opinions about hydroxychloroquine, which he said he took as a preventive measure after a number of White House officials tested positive for the virus. He has retweeted many posts claiming health officials like Fauci and the news media buried evidence of its effectiveness. Last week, Trump shared a video on Twitter – which social media companies removed for promoting misinformation – of several doctors promoting hydroxychloroquine as a "cure." "Many doctors think it is extremely successful – the hydroxychloroquine – coupled with the zinc and perhaps the azithromycin. But many doctors think it's extremely good, and some people don't," Trump said at a White House news briefing when asked about sharing the controversial video. "I think it's become very political." Giroir said Sunday "we need to move on from" the debate about hydroxychloroquine "and talk about what is effective." He said the use of the drug remdesivir and steroids have reduced mortality by 30% and reminded people of the effectiveness of preventive measures such as masks and hand-washing. He also said there was promising evidence that blood plasma from recovered COVID-19 patients was effective and that a vaccine is "really on the horizon." "We know that if you get COVID now, your chances of dying are incredibly less than they were in April because our healthcare providers know how to treat it better," Giroir said. But "hydroxychloroquine, I can't recommend that." "I think most physicians and prescribers are evidence-based and they're not influenced by whatever is on Twitter or anything else," Giroir said. "And the evidence just doesn't show that hydroxychloroquine is effective right now."
hydroxychloroquine, I can't recommend that." "I think most physicians and prescribers are evidence-based and they're not influenced by whatever is on Twitter or anything else," Giroir said. "And the evidence just doesn't show that hydroxychloroquine is effective right now." 信息说的很清楚，基于现有医生的证据是无效的所以不推荐。。。 医生也不会收到推特影响的
我估计这个白宫工作人员引用的study里肯定有recovery trial。在那个trial里用的HCQ计量是推荐用量的四倍，这不是谋杀是什么？ they used dangerous doses of HCQ. 2400mg in the first 24 hours and 9600mg in 10 days. Plenty of government agencies all over the world set the limit/day to 600mg. 4 times the limit Malaria chock treatment is 800mg in the first day and 2000mg total in 48 hours.
米兰的不是trial是临床医生的观察的总结的信 你的楼里2bornot2b 回复的这两个 --------- “你的时间线为什么没有后来更大规模，并且随机加上控制更好的研究？来自多个国家的。 for prevention: no difference compared to placebo. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.20.20157651v1 for treatment, no difference from placebo, 这样的研究更多” -------- 你为什么不提？尤其是第二个西班牙的这个 We included adult individuals ≥ 18 years of age with a recent history of close contact exposure to a PCR101 confirmed Covid-19 case (i.e., > 15 minutes within two meters, up to seven days before enrolment) and 102 absence of Covid-19-like symptoms on the two weeks preceding enrolment, as either a healthcare worker, 103 a household contact, a nursing home worker or a nursing home resident. Contacts with Covid-19-like 104 signs and symptoms at the time of the baseline visit were considered unpreventable Covid-19 events and 105 were not enrolled in the study. All eligibility criteria are listed in the Supplementary Appendix. ---- 你知道我的观点的，我认为吃不吃羟氯喹是between doctor and patient之间的事情。 然而你不能只cherry pick你喜欢的结论，忽视其他的数据，这和MSM又有什么区别？而是应该把所有数据都拿给大家看，让大家自己judge for themselves.
米兰的不是trial是临床医生的观察的总结的信 你的楼里2bornot2b 回复的这两个 --------- “你的时间线为什么没有后来更大规模，并且随机加上控制更好的研究？来自多个国家的。 for prevention: no difference compared to placebo. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.20.20157651v1 for treatment, no difference from placebo, 这样的研究更多” -------- 你为什么不提？尤其是第二个西班牙的这个 We included adult individuals ≥ 18 years of age with a recent history of close contact exposure to a PCR101 confirmed Covid-19 case (i.e., > 15 minutes within two meters, up to seven days before enrolment) and 102 absence of Covid-19-like symptoms on the two weeks preceding enrolment, as either a healthcare worker, 103 a household contact, a nursing home worker or a nursing home resident. Contacts with Covid-19-like 104 signs and symptoms at the time of the baseline visit were considered unpreventable Covid-19 events and 105 were not enrolled in the study. All eligibility criteria are listed in the Supplementary Appendix. ---- 你知道我的观点的，我认为吃不吃羟氯喹是between doctor and patient之间的事情。 然而你不能只cherry pick你喜欢的结论，忽视其他的数据，这和MSM又有什么区别？而是应该把所有数据都拿给大家看，让大家自己judge for themselves. 梅干茶泡饭 发表于 2020-08-03 14:20
米兰的不是trial是临床医生的观察的总结的信 你的楼里2bornot2b 回复的这两个 --------- “你的时间线为什么没有后来更大规模，并且随机加上控制更好的研究？来自多个国家的。 for prevention: no difference compared to placebo. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.20.20157651v1 for treatment, no difference from placebo, 这样的研究更多” -------- 你为什么不提？尤其是第二个西班牙的这个 We included adult individuals ≥ 18 years of age with a recent history of close contact exposure to a PCR101 confirmed Covid-19 case (i.e., > 15 minutes within two meters, up to seven days before enrolment) and 102 absence of Covid-19-like symptoms on the two weeks preceding enrolment, as either a healthcare worker, 103 a household contact, a nursing home worker or a nursing home resident. Contacts with Covid-19-like 104 signs and symptoms at the time of the baseline visit were considered unpreventable Covid-19 events and 105 were not enrolled in the study. All eligibility criteria are listed in the Supplementary Appendix. ---- 你知道我的观点的，我认为吃不吃羟氯喹是between doctor and patient之间的事情。 然而你不能只cherry pick你喜欢的结论，忽视其他的数据，这和MSM又有什么区别？而是应该把所有数据都拿给大家看，让大家自己judge for themselves. 梅干茶泡饭 发表于 2020-08-03 14:20
米兰的不是trial是临床医生的观察的总结的信 你的楼里2bornot2b 回复的这两个 --------- “你的时间线为什么没有后来更大规模，并且随机加上控制更好的研究？来自多个国家的。 for prevention: no difference compared to placebo. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.20.20157651v1 for treatment, no difference from placebo, 这样的研究更多” -------- 你为什么不提？尤其是第二个西班牙的这个 We included adult individuals ≥ 18 years of age with a recent history of close contact exposure to a PCR101 confirmed Covid-19 case (i.e., > 15 minutes within two meters, up to seven days before enrolment) and 102 absence of Covid-19-like symptoms on the two weeks preceding enrolment, as either a healthcare worker, 103 a household contact, a nursing home worker or a nursing home resident. Contacts with Covid-19-like 104 signs and symptoms at the time of the baseline visit were considered unpreventable Covid-19 events and 105 were not enrolled in the study. All eligibility criteria are listed in the Supplementary Appendix. ---- 你知道我的观点的，我认为吃不吃羟氯喹是between doctor and patient之间的事情。 然而你不能只cherry pick你喜欢的结论，忽视其他的数据，这和MSM又有什么区别？而是应该把所有数据都拿给大家看，让大家自己judge for themselves. 梅干茶泡饭 发表于 2020-08-03 14:20
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/03/hydroxychloroquine-not-effective-brett-giroir/5570944002/
The White House coronavirus task force member charged with coordinating the U.S. testing effort said Sunday the nation needs to "move on" from the debate over hydroxychloroquine, a drug which President Donald Trump has promoted as a COVID-19 treatment despite clear evidence that it is effective. Adm. Brett Giroir, assistant secretary of health and human services, said on NBC News' "Meet the Press" that "from a public health standpoint, at first, hydroxychloroquine looked very promising" but at "this point in time, there's been five randomized control, placebo-controlled trials that do not show any benefit to hydroxychloroquine." "So, at this point in time, we don't recommend that as a treatment. There's no evidence to show that it is," Giroir said.
Trump first touted hydroxychloroquine as a potential treatment for COVID-19 at a March 19 task force news briefing after initial reports of its success, saying it "could be a game-changer." But Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said the evidence was "anecdotal" and cautioned that more trials were needed. Subsequent studies have not found the drug to be the cure Trump had hoped for and raised concerns about potential side effects among people with heart conditions. In April, the Food and Drug Administration issued a warning against using it outside of clinical trials, and last month the FDA revoked the emergency use authorization it had granted for the drug.
Yet, Trump has cast doubt on his own public health experts' opinions about hydroxychloroquine, which he said he took as a preventive measure after a number of White House officials tested positive for the virus. He has retweeted many posts claiming health officials like Fauci and the news media buried evidence of its effectiveness. Last week, Trump shared a video on Twitter – which social media companies removed for promoting misinformation – of several doctors promoting hydroxychloroquine as a "cure."
"Many doctors think it is extremely successful – the hydroxychloroquine – coupled with the zinc and perhaps the azithromycin. But many doctors think it's extremely good, and some people don't," Trump said at a White House news briefing when asked about sharing the controversial video. "I think it's become very political." Giroir said Sunday "we need to move on from" the debate about hydroxychloroquine "and talk about what is effective." He said the use of the drug remdesivir and steroids have reduced mortality by 30% and reminded people of the effectiveness of preventive measures such as masks and hand-washing. He also said there was promising evidence that blood plasma from recovered COVID-19 patients was effective and that a vaccine is "really on the horizon."
"We know that if you get COVID now, your chances of dying are incredibly less than they were in April because our healthcare providers know how to treat it better," Giroir said. But "hydroxychloroquine, I can't recommend that." "I think most physicians and prescribers are evidence-based and they're not influenced by whatever is on Twitter or anything else," Giroir said. "And the evidence just doesn't show that hydroxychloroquine is effective right now."
洗。
巴西也就算了，white house得话怎么弄啊，我都替它们着急。
另外也感谢这里的版主不遗余力的把每个攻击川普的都当作“新闻”来处理！
拜托，楼主贴的原文上清清楚楚写着呢～～你的眼睛是漏勺～～
信息说的很清楚，基于现有医生的证据是无效的所以不推荐。。。
医生也不会收到推特影响的
这是一个啥样的怪圈！ 现在争论的不就是没有好好设计的实验来验证效果嘛！ 不信的千万不要吃不完了
这论调跟中医一模一样。
又是一个眼睛是漏勺的～～
人家老将军明确说了，根据多次实验的结果，没有证据表明，这药有用～～
不知道川总现在还在不在吃。好像他前两个月说过他自己在吃。。。
完美说出了川粉的心理话，只要川普支持的，我们无条件支持。 然后推己及人，以为人人如此。
殊不知，绝大多数人，尤其是专业医生们，人家判断的标准，是科学事实，而不是谁在推。
不住院的轻症实验可能是有点难，谁能保证在家里没吃啥别的或者有没有按时吃，除非有方舱集中测试。
传粉们在床铺知道HCQ之前就开始屯了。倒是左棍龙虾们怎么办，这下吃不吃？
加锌 一定要锌锌锌 没锌啃啃铝锅也可以😂
啃啃铝锅 😅
这个行不行？吃了鼻子通气，有助于呼吸～～
哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈这一层太欢乐了。。。
龙虾川粉你别自己cue自己了好不好，怪精神分裂的
了不起，工友们嘴一张，美国的四星上将也是五毛了～～
这个是shin 我们要xin 南方口音吧😂 来点锌👍
they used dangerous doses of HCQ. 2400mg in the first 24 hours and 9600mg in 10 days. Plenty of government agencies all over the world set the limit/day to 600mg. 4 times the limit Malaria chock treatment is 800mg in the first day and 2000mg total in 48 hours.
你这个医生没考过bar 不能得到著名数据学家jiaru0059认证
默MM 上次在你的科普楼里面我们讨论的西班牙trial你怎么不贴上来呢？
他肯定不是，你估计是。阴阳怪气的挺符合。
你说的哪个？米兰的trial，得到和henry ford相似结论那个？
正解！
美国医生协会（AAPS）早在6月就起诉FDA，要求FDA停止无故限制医生使用HCQ预防和治疗Covid 19
https://aapsonline.org/hcqsuit/
哈哈哈！！
头脑简单了，吃完的出问题了找医生医院打官司？医生医院谁能承担这个责任？
米兰的不是trial是临床医生的观察的总结的信 你的楼里2bornot2b 回复的这两个 --------- “你的时间线为什么没有后来更大规模，并且随机加上控制更好的研究？来自多个国家的。
for prevention: no difference compared to placebo. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.20.20157651v1
for treatment, no difference from placebo, 这样的研究更多” -------- 你为什么不提？尤其是第二个西班牙的这个
We included adult individuals ≥ 18 years of age with a recent history of close contact exposure to a PCR101 confirmed Covid-19 case (i.e., > 15 minutes within two meters, up to seven days before enrolment) and 102 absence of Covid-19-like symptoms on the two weeks preceding enrolment, as either a healthcare worker, 103 a household contact, a nursing home worker or a nursing home resident. Contacts with Covid-19-like 104 signs and symptoms at the time of the baseline visit were considered unpreventable Covid-19 events and 105 were not enrolled in the study. All eligibility criteria are listed in the Supplementary Appendix.
----
你知道我的观点的，我认为吃不吃羟氯喹是between doctor and patient之间的事情。 然而你不能只cherry pick你喜欢的结论，忽视其他的数据，这和MSM又有什么区别？而是应该把所有数据都拿给大家看，让大家自己judge for themselves.
现在开药的医生有的会要求病人签免责声明
治好的算我的，吃死了你活该？
《转法轮》里面得到的灵感？
为啥要签免责声明。。。第一次听说。。。
欲擒故纵之策？
你说的这些study都有各种问题，在别的帖子里我还有其他人都提出来了，我觉得没有必要一而再再而三的反驳，没意义
总之就是现在就没有一个hcq+Azithromycin+Zinc的双盲，只要没做这个study没出结果，就不能说没效果
觉得有危险，医生开了照样可以不吃啊，嘴不是还在自己身上长着吗？吃出问题来，告医生就完了，在美国，sue个人还不容易啊？！
对了，我要不要提你说的这两个study的一作都没有disclose他们和Gilead的关系？
因为是病人要求医生开的，医生也觉得可以开，但是这个药被政治化的这样。。。
你认为西班牙会为了Gilead而造假？ 西班牙是最惨的受灾的国家。公费医疗。政府主持的trial难道初衷不是想用更便宜的药来拯救西班牙的经济和老百姓么？ 我觉得你既然cherry picking 把所有你喜欢的结论拿出来，从来不听进去任何你不喜欢的观点和证据。那么和你讨论已经没有意义。
我从杀生丸开始追克立芝，追氯喹，做了很多科普贴。我也希望这个药有用。但是你只cherrypicking一方的而不把其他的证据给别人看，这样不合适。吃不吃药只应该由医生和病人决定。
我是对每个提出来的反对意见都有正当理由的反驳，怎么能叫cherry picking? 你说的那几个study根本不能证明HCQ cocktail无效。我在不同帖子里说了无数遍，如果有一个在早期病人里做HCQ+Azithromycin+Zinc的双盲，我就服气。
我不管西班牙会不会为了Gilead造假，作者没有disclose就该让人质疑。
能把一个药政治化成这样的原因总有一天会浮出水面！
药都是因人而异，有人有用有人没用。
中国这次疫情的确是投毒欧美，占尽了欧美的便宜，但是就欧美各国元首的表现来说，最不让中国占便宜的就是trump了
这药不能otc，计量要严格控制的 能不能开这个药应该医生决定，什么州长啊都应该靠边站
别逗了，如果失败了当然是move on，请不要小人之心。
这药有没有用我不知道但政治化医学是真的，没人做实验到是真的，夸大副作用是真的，一直让一方闭嘴是真的，一直用misleading的词语是真的。🤷♀️
你追Scott adams吗？他说的关于hcq的一切都跟我感觉一样。他也属于觉得hcq“有可能”管用的那一拨。
这个西班牙的trial 可以证明付作用被夸大了。
信则得救，赞
凡是反对川普的都是5毛
退烧药，包括婴幼儿退烧药，都是otc的，用法用量写得清清楚楚，有多少人over dose呢？
按你这个讲法，大部分药都应该OTC.
说的太好了，这个药注定了没有高质量临床实验。 还有就是人永远无法证明一个药无效。 以上两点注定了争议不断
这个不是这个药专属。病人不遵从医嘱，医生开的要不愿意吃，或者强求医生降低剂量，倒不是什么免责声明，是医生记录情况，说明是应病人要求调整剂量，或是给换药，医生说明了各个选择的优缺点，建议不这么做，但是病人坚持这么做，让病人签个字。美国的医疗官司太多，医生在治病救人的同时也需要保护自己的。
真吃的话也算为人类基因pool进化做出贡献了！就怕她们在网上忽悠别人不带口罩吃氯喹复工复学，然后自己缩在屋里门都不敢出。
wow，前些日子被版上跨到天上的良心药厂Gilead，现在也被打成黑心资本家了？
He got fired immediately.
明明是你在政治化科学 还有脸说别人。任何一个正规培训出来的医生都知道这药没希望了 只有你还在加锌 加铝 加白糖 反正就是有用😴😴
曾经的曾经，版上有ID说“我买了GILD股票。不为挣钱，就为支持他们。跌了就当捐给他们”。当时看到这么高尚的情操俺都流泪了~
的确是这样，除非医生能拿出其它的特效药代替，否则争来争去，有什么意义呢？至少HCQ用了几十年了，不少病人还是长期用药，安全性有保障
曾几何时，人民的希望跟今天的氯喹一样天天刷版，我都被做默默低头做好事不求名利的白雷锋Gilead深深感动了。想不到才不过两三个月，就被同一拨ID打成了为赚黑心钱，罔顾人命，勾结贿赂黑心医生造假数据的黑心资本家了。这世界变化快，但赶不上这些ID的立场变化快👍
先看看有多少是同一批ID，行不？
正规培养出来的医生多了，支持hcq的医生也多了去了。
专业，临床试验数据你好好massage 和不认真分类可以得出完全相反的结论
是啊，有些人非要否认有专业人士支持氯喹，非要说支持的都不是医生，要么都没经过训练blah blah。这些反事实硬洗的人的确低智到连事实是什么意思都不明白。