https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/1359/smpc Risk of venous thromboembolism (VTE) • The use of any combined hormonal contraceptive (CHC) increases the risk of venous thromboembolism (VTE) compared with no use. Products that contain levonorgestrel, norgestimate or norethisterone are associated with the lowest risk of VTE. Other products such as Marvelon may have up to twice this level of risk. The decision to use any product other than one with the lowest VTE risk should be taken only after a discussion with the woman to ensure she understands the risk of VTE with Marvelon, how her current risk factors influence this risk, and that her VTE risk is highest in the first ever year of use. There is also some evidence that the risk is increased when a CHC is re-started after a break in use of 4 weeks or more.
就拿VTE(静脉内血栓形成）为例子，It is estimated1 that out of 10,000 women who use a CHC containing desogestrel between 9 and 12 women will develop a VTE in one year; this compares with about 62 in women who use a levonorgestrel-containing CHC. 这个风险是很大的，以上是基于一年的服用时间，如果使用者连续服用10年，那么risk还要乘于10 现在来看看hcq, 看section 4.8 https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/1764/smpc Cardiac disorders Not known: cardiomyopathy which may result in cardiac failure and in some cases a fatal outcome (see sections 4.4 and 4.9) Chronic toxicity should be considered when conduction disorders (bundle branch block/atrioventricular heart block) as well as biventricular hypertrophy are found. Drug withdrawal may lead to recovery. 它的label 并没有给出%， 因为在临床试验里面没有观察到有关的现象，无法量化，说明并不是很常见。之所以加在label 里面估计是卫生部门强令的，如果真如大家说的那么严重，早就加了black box warning了。 下面再看看另外一个有qt prolongation 的药物
这个是非常有效的抗菌素，QT prolongation in patients with hypokalaemia (see sections 4.3 and 4.4), 它在common 里面，说明在这些人里面机率是>10%。在其它人里面的发生率>1%， 也是很高了。不过好在不需要长期服用。 所以你看看，和hcq比，这个药物严重多了。 退一步说，就算发生了qt prolonging, 不到一定程度，也不一定会出现症状，就算出现症状了也不一定会很严重，到需要抢救的地步。我看了一些文献，还没看到出现严重的反应如torsades de pointes ，不过我也没有看全，如果有请告诉我。 下面的文章挺有意思， https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2020/03/27/14/00/ventricular-arrhythmia-risk-due-to-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-treatment-for-covid-19 Chloroquine, and its more contemporary derivative hydroxychloroquine, have remained in clinical use for more than a half-century as an effective therapy for treatment of some malarias, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis. Data show inhibition of iKr and resultant mild QT prolongation associated with both agents. Despite these suggestive findings, several hundred million courses of chloroquine have been used worldwide making it one of the most widely used drugs in history, without reports of arrhythmic death under World Health Organization surveillance.4
https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/1359/smpc Risk of venous thromboembolism (VTE) • The use of any combined hormonal contraceptive (CHC) increases the risk of venous thromboembolism (VTE) compared with no use. Products that contain levonorgestrel, norgestimate or norethisterone are associated with the lowest risk of VTE. Other products such as Marvelon may have up to twice this level of risk. The decision to use any product other than one with the lowest VTE risk should be taken only after a discussion with the woman to ensure she understands the risk of VTE with Marvelon, how her current risk factors influence this risk, and that her VTE risk is highest in the first ever year of use. There is also some evidence that the risk is increased when a CHC is re-started after a break in use of 4 weeks or more.
就拿VTE(静脉内血栓形成）为例子，It is estimated1 that out of 10,000 women who use a CHC containing desogestrel between 9 and 12 women will develop a VTE in one year; this compares with about 62 in women who use a levonorgestrel-containing CHC. 这个风险是很大的，以上是基于一年的服用时间，如果使用者连续服用10年，那么risk还要乘于10 现在来看看hcq, 看section 4.8 https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/1764/smpc Cardiac disorders Not known: cardiomyopathy which may result in cardiac failure and in some cases a fatal outcome (see sections 4.4 and 4.9) Chronic toxicity should be considered when conduction disorders (bundle branch block/atrioventricular heart block) as well as biventricular hypertrophy are found. Drug withdrawal may lead to recovery. 它的label 并没有给出%， 因为在临床试验里面没有观察到有关的现象，无法量化，说明并不是很常见。之所以加在label 里面估计是卫生部门强令的，如果真如大家说的那么严重，早就加了black box warning了。 下面再看看另外一个有qt prolongation 的药物
这个是非常有效的抗菌素，QT prolongation in patients with hypokalaemia (see sections 4.3 and 4.4), 它在common 里面，说明在这些人里面机率是>10%。在其它人里面的发生率>1%， 也是很高了。不过好在不需要长期服用。 所以你看看，和hcq比，这个药物严重多了。 退一步说，就算发生了qt prolonging, 不到一定程度，也不一定会出现症状，就算出现症状了也不一定会很严重，到需要抢救的地步。我看了一些文献，还没看到出现严重的反应如torsades de pointes ，不过我也没有看全，如果有请告诉我。 下面的文章挺有意思， https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2020/03/27/14/00/ventricular-arrhythmia-risk-due-to-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-treatment-for-covid-19 Chloroquine, and its more contemporary derivative hydroxychloroquine, have remained in clinical use for more than a half-century as an effective therapy for treatment of some malarias, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis. Data show inhibition of iKr and resultant mild QT prolongation associated with both agents. Despite these suggestive findings, several hundred million courses of chloroquine have been used worldwide making it one of the most widely used drugs in history, without reports of arrhythmic death under World Health Organization surveillance.4
我觉得你说的非常好。我可以理解在最黑暗的时候各国政府都想是放一些好消息来boost人民的精神。也有很多政府提及了各种治疗手段，但都是叫科学家来说话。比如克立芝 等等。提到药物的时候也是说一说我们现在在实验什么，有没有promising的实验等等。看了欧美这么多国家不会出现美国这种推荐药物，给人一种神药的错觉，却不加以解释还没有结论的事实，也更不会像那个前线医生的视频里面把药说成cure 并且和戴口罩联系上。一个药物是没有对错的。 我认为希腊做的就很好。他们对氯喹的态度就是，let wait and see. 等科学结果。而不是jump into conclusion.从来没有把药和社交距离口罩挂钩。现在希腊的成果就非常好。 再举个例子，英国首相治病的方案，很多人都想知道。然而官方媒体都一点点没报道。因为一方面这是首相的隐私，另一方面不希望一个案例公布出去给其他医生造成压力。病人会提出不合理的要求。 My 2 cents
大妈你真的是逻辑争辩么？“不反智”？
人家说的是没有足够的数据显示有效
你举例避孕药🤷🏻♀️
避孕药有效率不要太高好吧
btw：你说自己自认不反智：没有人“自认反智”，都是反智不自知
你可以重新读一下我写的内容。🤷♀️ 我问的不是避孕成功率，而是跟成功率并且毫无副作用的套套比的benefit。
Ps.既然你开始说反智那我是不是可以说把是否用药交给政府而不是医生是反智呢？当然你可以继续说政府比医生懂得多，交给医生是反智。
如果你也只人身攻击我会把你拉黑。目前没拉黑是因为对医生的尊重。
https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/1359/smpc
Risk of venous thromboembolism (VTE) • The use of any combined hormonal contraceptive (CHC) increases the risk of venous thromboembolism (VTE) compared with no use. Products that contain levonorgestrel, norgestimate or norethisterone are associated with the lowest risk of VTE. Other products such as Marvelon may have up to twice this level of risk. The decision to use any product other than one with the lowest VTE risk should be taken only after a discussion with the woman to ensure she understands the risk of VTE with Marvelon, how her current risk factors influence this risk, and that her VTE risk is highest in the first ever year of use. There is also some evidence that the risk is increased when a CHC is re-started after a break in use of 4 weeks or more.
就拿VTE(静脉内血栓形成）为例子，It is estimated1 that out of 10,000 women who use a CHC containing desogestrel between 9 and 12 women will develop a VTE in one year; this compares with about 62 in women who use a levonorgestrel-containing CHC.
这个风险是很大的，以上是基于一年的服用时间，如果使用者连续服用10年，那么risk还要乘于10
现在来看看hcq, 看section 4.8
https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/1764/smpc
Cardiac disorders Not known: cardiomyopathy which may result in cardiac failure and in some cases a fatal outcome (see sections 4.4 and 4.9) Chronic toxicity should be considered when conduction disorders (bundle branch block/atrioventricular heart block) as well as biventricular hypertrophy are found. Drug withdrawal may lead to recovery.
它的label 并没有给出%， 因为在临床试验里面没有观察到有关的现象，无法量化，说明并不是很常见。之所以加在label 里面估计是卫生部门强令的，如果真如大家说的那么严重，早就加了black box warning了。
下面再看看另外一个有qt prolongation 的药物
https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/485/smpc
这个是非常有效的抗菌素，QT prolongation in patients with hypokalaemia (see sections 4.3 and 4.4), 它在common 里面，说明在这些人里面机率是>10%。在其它人里面的发生率>1%， 也是很高了。不过好在不需要长期服用。
所以你看看，和hcq比，这个药物严重多了。 退一步说，就算发生了qt prolonging, 不到一定程度，也不一定会出现症状，就算出现症状了也不一定会很严重，到需要抢救的地步。我看了一些文献，还没看到出现严重的反应如torsades de pointes ，不过我也没有看全，如果有请告诉我。
下面的文章挺有意思，
https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2020/03/27/14/00/ventricular-arrhythmia-risk-due-to-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-treatment-for-covid-19
Chloroquine, and its more contemporary derivative hydroxychloroquine, have remained in clinical use for more than a half-century as an effective therapy for treatment of some malarias, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis. Data show inhibition of iKr and resultant mild QT prolongation associated with both agents. Despite these suggestive findings, several hundred million courses of chloroquine have been used worldwide making it one of the most widely used drugs in history, without reports of arrhythmic death under World Health Organization surveillance.4
谢谢亲😄😄
这可以有
我觉得你说的非常好。我可以理解在最黑暗的时候各国政府都想是放一些好消息来boost人民的精神。也有很多政府提及了各种治疗手段，但都是叫科学家来说话。比如克立芝 等等。提到药物的时候也是说一说我们现在在实验什么，有没有promising的实验等等。看了欧美这么多国家不会出现美国这种推荐药物，给人一种神药的错觉，却不加以解释还没有结论的事实，也更不会像那个前线医生的视频里面把药说成cure 并且和戴口罩联系上。一个药物是没有对错的。
我认为希腊做的就很好。他们对氯喹的态度就是，let wait and see. 等科学结果。而不是jump into conclusion.从来没有把药和社交距离口罩挂钩。现在希腊的成果就非常好。
再举个例子，英国首相治病的方案，很多人都想知道。然而官方媒体都一点点没报道。因为一方面这是首相的隐私，另一方面不希望一个案例公布出去给其他医生造成压力。病人会提出不合理的要求。
My 2 cents
川普在这个药上是多久前的事儿了？能不能move on了？现在大家就是希望医生可以多说话多研究而不是msm/政府强插一脚。
川普多嘴是错的，msm打压也是错的，two wrongs don’t make a right.
这位mm总结的很好。谢谢分享实料干货
你读一读我提Trump了么
我觉得你们有点过于神经过敏了
我说的意思难道不是不希望政客和MSM指手画脚？上周你们新闻发布会又mention这个药不是么？其他国家为什么没有这么大的争议？
我觉得美国的政客和MSM要好好反思
你说”说得非常好”的人提的啊，你没注意吗？🤦♀️我根本不想提他好不。
这不好说不好说。😂