梅奥医院的心脏病专家警告羟氯喹对10%左右的人会很致命

s
sbtelf
楼主 (北美华人网)
我是羟氯喹的强烈拥护者,但现在看来服用羟氯喹一定要有序,要经过大夫评估。
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/mayo-clinic-cardiologist-inexcusable-ignore-hydroxychloroquine-side-effects-n1178776

Mayo Clinic cardiologist: 'Inexcusable' to ignore hydroxychloroquine side effects
While safe for most, the drug carries serious side effects for some, including sudden cardiac arrest.

April 7, 2020, 4:11 PM PDT / Updated April 7, 2020, 4:34 PM PDT
By Heidi Przybyla

WASHINGTON — As the U.S. scales up purchase and use of the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus patients, a leading Mayo Clinic cardiologist is sounding a warning: Anyone promoting the drug also needs to flag its rare but serious — and potentially fatal — side effects.

President Donald Trump has repeatedly touted the potential benefits of hydroxychloroquine, which has been approved by the Food and Drug Administration to treat malaria, lupus and other autoimmune ailments but hasn't yet been proven effective and safe in treating the coronavirus.

"What do you have to lose?" Trump asked Saturday at the White House when pressed by reporters about hydroxychloroquine's effectiveness. And while he's suggested that patients consult with their physicians about the treatment, he's also said the drug can "help them, but it's not going to hurt them."

On Tuesday, when asked about the drug’s potential side effects, he downplayed them. “The side effects are the least of it,” said Trump. “You’re not gonna die from this pill,” he said. “I say ‘try it’” he said, noting “I’m not a doctor” and to get a physician’s approval.

But the president's reassurance is raising concerns among experts about the dangers the drug poses to some.

After observing the debate over hydroxychloroquine on TV news and in social media, Dr. Michael Ackerman, a genetic cardiologist who is director of the Mayo Clinic's Windland Smith Rice Genetic Heart Rhythm Clinic, took the unusual step in late March of issuing guidance for physicians.

"What disturbed me the most was when I was seeing not political officials say these medications are safe but seeing on the news cardiologists and infectious disease specialists say" hydroxychloroquine "is completely safe without even mentioning this rare side effect," Ackerman said in an interview.

"That's inexcusable," he added.

Ackerman and his Mayo Clinic colleagues created a cardiac algorithm, published in Mayo Clinic Proceedings, to help physicians more safely prescribe hydroxychloroquine by identifying patients at greatest risk for drug-induced sudden cardiac death.

While hydroxychloroquine is likely to be safe for 90 percent of the population, Ackerman said, it could pose serious and potentially lethal risks to a small number of those susceptible to heart conditions, especially those with other chronic medical problems already on multiple medications.

In fact, a small recent study showed that up to 11 percent of coronavirus patients on hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin are in the so-called "red zone" for potential cardiac side effects.

"They've entered the danger zone," Ackerman said. "That is not just my hunch that patients are going to be reacting to this drug — but they are reacting to this drug."

Ackerman wouldn't directly comment on whether Trump should be promoting the drug from the presidential podium. But he said he was alarmed that the conversation had gotten "way too nonmedical and nonscientific."

He added: "This particular medicine is probably the only medication I know of that has become a Republican or a Democrat medication. That's just crazy."

Prescribing physicians must assess individual patient risk by establishing the so-called QTc interval — an indicator of the health of the heart's electrical recharging system, Ackerman said.

A patient with a significantly prolonged QTc is at increased risk for severe disturbances of the heart's electrical system that can lead to sudden cardiac death.

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Ackerman said there are as many as 100 FDA-approved medications that can potentially prolong the QTc interval like hydroxychloroquine, and one of them is azithromycin. This combination, which Ackerman refers to as the “corona cocktail,” could be particularly dangerous in the wrong patient.

"It just means that the perfect storm is brewing. It's sort of like walking to the edge of the cliff. You are getting closer and closer to that proverbial edge," Ackerman said.

Hydroxychloroquine's fate as an FDA-approved drug to treat the coronavirus remains uncertain, Ackerman added.

"Yes, these medications overall are really, really safe, so in that sense the president is right. But really safe in a population sense doesn't mean that drug is going to be safe enough for the particular patient I'm about to treat," he said.dden cardiac arrest.
S
Sallyon
所以,不是万能药
e
eric1995
This is the only option, and people are dying
君已陌路
所以,不是万能药
Sallyon 发表于 4/10/2020 3:53:35 PM
a
abcsong111
9生1死,目前还能找到比这个更好的药吗?
3
3kingdom
我觉得这就是中美医疗理念的差别,已及为什么西方不太认同中国医生经验的原因。 中国的治疗方式是无差别,下猛药,然后只要治好50%就觉得很有效了,大肆宣传,基本不care副作用会不会死人。美国这边用药非常谨慎,剂量都是一点一点加上去的,人体试验如果发现有很多副作用那宁可不用药,或是非常谨慎的用药同时treat副作用。像武汉那种见人就上中药的治法连想都不要想,会丢执照的。 可能有人觉得中国那种治法更好,我不加评论。
c
chartgame
在生死面前10%的风险还是很值得一试的。
C
CleverBeaver
......
s
sbtelf
不过这个10%的数字很恶心,医疗系统被击穿后新冠肺炎的死亡率现在看来也就10%左右。
p
peterpdf
回复 9楼sbtelf的帖子 说的好像吃了这药肺炎就一定会好似的
p
purpleqq
我觉得这就是中美医疗理念的差别,已及为什么西方不太认同中国医生经验的原因。
中国的治疗方式是无差别,下猛药,然后只要治好50%就觉得很有效了,大肆宣传,基本不care副作用会不会死人。美国这边用药非常谨慎,剂量都是一点一点加上去的,人体试验如果发现有很多副作用那宁可不用药,或是非常谨慎的用药同时treat副作用。像武汉那种见人就上中药的治法连想都不要想,会丢执照的。

可能有人觉得中国那种治法更好,我不加评论。
3kingdom 发表于 4/10/2020 4:06:54 PM


这个不客观吧。

中国卫健委方案里面明确写明了有心脏疾病的禁止用氯喹,而且明确说明了氯喹治疗指导用量。中国也是一直在调整寻找最佳用量(第七版和第六版比调整了用量)。

另外,看过一篇文章,钟南山提到,中国的治疗用量离致死量很远。服用这个药当然需要知道,有心脏疾病的人禁用。

任何药都是有副作用的,关键是根据身体情况权衡利与弊。
E
EdwardVIII
In fact, a small recent study showed that up to 11 percent of coronavirus patients on hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin are in the so-called "red zone" for potential cardiac side effects.

sbtelf 发表于 4/10/2020 3:50:07 PM

一看出處就知道是反川文。這個放一邊不說,只說science。美國是重症上這個藥,這個small study應該是重症,重症各種問題,而且這藥對重症基本沒用,這種study有什麽意義?
s
sunfic
在生死面前10%的风险还是很值得一试的。
chartgame 发表于 4/10/2020 4:07:41 PM


这病的死亡率才1%。。。 重症死亡率也不超过20% 而且到了重症这个药也没啥疗效了
L
Lightwinds
我觉得这就是中美医疗理念的差别,已及为什么西方不太认同中国医生经验的原因。
中国的治疗方式是无差别,下猛药,然后只要治好50%就觉得很有效了,大肆宣传,基本不care副作用会不会死人。美国这边用药非常谨慎,剂量都是一点一点加上去的,人体试验如果发现有很多副作用那宁可不用药,或是非常谨慎的用药同时treat副作用。像武汉那种见人就上中药的治法连想都不要想,会丢执照的。

可能有人觉得中国那种治法更好,我不加评论。
3kingdom 发表于 4/10/2020 4:06:54 PM

你这种总结对中国医生的疗法不公平。
更准确的,你描述的这种行为,估计更符合trump的想法!
d
dizia0220

一看出處就知道是反川文。這個放一邊不說,只說science。美國是重症上這個藥,這個small study應該是重症,重症各種問題,而且這藥對重症基本沒用,這種study有什麽意義?

EdwardVIII 发表于 4/10/2020 4:49:30 PM


是的。已有临床试验证明羟氯喹用于轻症患者有效,用与重症患者效果不佳。这篇文章是偷换概念,为反川而反川。
C
Cath226


这个不客观吧。

中国卫健委方案里面明确写明了有心脏疾病的禁止用氯喹,而且明确说明了氯喹治疗指导用量。中国也是一直在调整寻找最佳用量(第七版和第六版比调整了用量)。

另外,看过一篇文章,钟南山提到,中国的治疗用量离致死量很远。服用这个药当然需要知道,有心脏疾病的人禁用。

任何药都是有副作用的,关键是根据身体情况权衡利与弊。
purpleqq 发表于 4/10/2020 4:21:21 PM


更应该叫中医西医的理念区别吧。中国的西医也是西医。
我是半个中医黑,看方舱里乱七八糟吃一通中药汤,简直要死了。希望副作用不大吧,不要碰到有肝肾病的,哎。