印度科学家认为:病毒不像自然产物

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Puma2019
楼主 (北美华人网)
印度科学家认为:病毒不像自然产物

Abstract:
We are currently witnessing a major epidemic caused by the 2019 novel coronavirus (2019- nCoV). The evolution of 2019-nCoV remains elusive. We found 4 insertions in the spike glycoprotein (S) which are unique to the 2019-nCoV and are not present in other coronaviruses. Importantly, amino acid residues in all the 4 inserts have identity or similarity to those in the HIV- 1 gp120 or HIV-1 Gag. Interestingly, despite the inserts being discontinuous on the primary amino acid sequence, 3D-modelling of the 2019-nCoV suggests that they converge to constitute the receptor binding site. The finding of 4 unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV, all of which have identity /similarity to amino acid residues in key structural proteins of HIV-1 is unlikely to be fortuitous in nature. This work provides yet unknown insights on 2019-nCoV and sheds light on the evolution and pathogenicity of this virus with important implications for diagnosis of this virus.

https://biorxiv-cache.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/2020.01.30.927871.full.pdf

更新: 我朋友认为不可信。

e
en010272
認為新冠狀病毒是人工合成的科學家在擴大 “天呐,印度科学家刚刚在武汉肺炎病毒中发现了类似艾滋病毒的基因插入,而这种情况在任何其他冠状病毒中没有发现过。他们暗示这种中国病毒有可能是人为设计出来的. 如果是真的,这太可怕了。” 有人立即想起那个得了病、还说用艾滋病药治好了的国家组专家王广发
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sitdown2017
長話短說,邊看邊翻,大家都知道冠狀病毒的 spike glycoprotein (S 蛋白)是拿來和人體中的ACE2 (Angiotensin Converting Enzyme II) 結合才能感染人體。自然演化的話,冠狀病毒家族都會有點像,所以可以找出 SARS MERS 和 2019-nCoV的相似點。然後這篇就把 2019-nCoV 比較和家族不一樣的地方找出來,發現有四段。然後這四段和 HIV-1 gp120 / Gag 一模模一樣樣gp120 就是 HIV 用來和人體免疫 T 細胞麻吉麻吉稱兄道弟的好夥伴(負責感染免疫系統)

https://imgur.com/FIC9q6E

超過七個鹼基的四段,都一樣。大概就跟一首歌有四小節弦律都一樣(?人工斧鑿的痕跡很深
b
bunnynicki
印度人满嘴跑火车的本事那一般人比不了。不管是不是真的,我是一个字也不信。
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rreee
这个需要专家来解读了
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Duoremi
不是吧,细思极恐啊。我不愿意相信,不是说很多人可以自愈吗
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lovejake
中国搞这个有什么好处吗?弄出来干什么用?祸害自己人?
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en010272
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hnlaser
美国比印度的病例好像多一点,咋现在都没发现这茬呢?
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thirdwheel
印度人满嘴跑火车的本事那一般人比不了。不管是不是真的,我是一个字也不信。

re 虽然这次国内官僚作风又暴露了 印度人那科研水平还是给我闭嘴吧
五月草莓
只有人造的东西才这么毒,定点投放才会定点爆发
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hkmty
先不评论这个消息可不可信,只想说,万一有一天确凿证实了这病毒是TG自己弄的,那,国人会怎么想?全世界都知道了,国人可能还是死也不信吧,唉
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MoonRiver888
中国搞这个有什么好处吗?弄出来干什么用?祸害自己人?
lovejake 发表于 1/31/2020 5:27:48 PM


本以为可以用瘟疫控制人口,没想到瘟疫不是那么受人控制?
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sunnyfly
印度并不是首先说这个的,前几天微博上就在传了
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STSM的大门
回复 10楼thirdwheel的帖子 IIT的那帮阿三,一点不比清华差。
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mindstorm
信印度人???史上最不靠谱,没有之一。
m
mindstorm
序列出来了,其实在这个领域的明白人估计都知道怎么回事,剩下两国大众在瞎猜。。。
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thymetime
我还以为在美国呆过的人都不会随便相信烙印
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en010272
联系沉船计划,莫非对中国人的屠杀已经展开?以往所谓三年自然灾害饿死了千万级的人,现在又要开始生化杀人? 这就象丧尸围城一样可怕,的确在拉着人类下地狱!
细雨空山
先不评论这个消息可不可信,只想说,万一有一天确凿证实了这病毒是TG自己弄的,那,国人会怎么想?全世界都知道了,国人可能还是死也不信吧,唉

hkmty 发表于 1/31/2020 5:31:14 PM

肯定是美帝亡我之心不死
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chongyang
序列出来了,其实在这个领域的明白人估计都知道怎么回事,剩下两国大众在瞎猜。。。
mindstorm 发表于 1/31/2020 5:35:08 PM


那你讲讲
P
Puma2019

印度科学家认为:病毒不像自然产物

Abstract:
We are currently witnessing a major epidemic caused by the 2019 novel coronavirus (2019- nCoV). The evolution of 2019-nCoV remains elusive. We found 4 insertions in the spike glycoprotein (S) which are unique to the 2019-nCoV and are not present in other coronaviruses. Importantly, amino acid residues in all the 4 inserts have identity or similarity to those in the HIV- 1 gp120 or HIV-1 Gag. Interestingly, despite the inserts being discontinuous on the primary amino acid sequence, 3D-modelling of the 2019-nCoV suggests that they converge to constitute the receptor binding site. The finding of 4 unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV, all of which have identity /similarity to amino acid residues in key structural proteins of HIV-1 is unlikely to be fortuitous in nature. This work provides yet unknown insights on 2019-nCoV and sheds light on the evolution and pathogenicity of this virus with important implications for diagnosis of this virus.

https://biorxiv-cache.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/2020.01.30.927871.full.pdf
Puma2019 发表于 1/31/2020 5:19:53 PM


我朋友的comment:

c
chore
先不评论这个消息可不可信,只想说,万一有一天确凿证实了这病毒是TG自己弄的,那,国人会怎么想?全世界都知道了,国人可能还是死也不信吧,唉

hkmty 发表于 1/31/2020 5:31:14 PM

他们会说,信了又能怎么样?
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Riquelme


我朋友的comment:

Puma2019 发表于 1/31/2020 5:37:41 PM

那你还贴出来干嘛? 我不是专家,但是如果是这么爆炸性的发现,直接submit给nature,。science, lancet不是更有影响力嘛?
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Puma2019


那你还贴出来干嘛? 我不是专家,但是如果是这么爆炸性的发现,直接submit给nature,。science, lancet不是更有影响力嘛?

Riquelme 发表于 1/31/2020 5:40:15 PM


引发讨论是我的目的。

还有,老夫发什么与你有关系吗?不爱看自个玩去。
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zishuixin
美国及中国都有研究SARS 的专家,只有内行的人才知道是谁造的的病毒
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Lucy8860
这是补刀小能手,趁机落井下石
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ranran
那么多顶级欧美科学家都没提出疑问,要等到一个印度科学家来发现这么个没高科技含量的发现 — 病毒sequence一出来,就blast 里里外外分析过多少遍了。信这个的人,脑子里得进多少水啊 下面是网上人对此的一个评论: ” I've worked pretty closely with gag in my PhD thesis. Gag is the conglomerate protein that gets cut by the protease to generate the hiv capsid, matrix, and carrier proteins. Gp120 is the receptor protein. This is a really fucking dumb study and these scientists should be ashamed. Those amino acids are so short. They just went and looked for a virus to match. You can go and blast the amino acids yourself. Just copy and paste from the journal entry into NCBIs BLASTp. I did it and there's hundreds of matches to those sequences. HIV didn't even come up in the first 100. The 4th residue is missing like 6 amino acids. There are conserved regions in viruses.”
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Riquelme


引发讨论是我的目的。

还有,老夫发什么与你有关系吗?不爱看自个玩去。

Puma2019 发表于 1/31/2020 5:42:19 PM


哈哈,准你发还不准我评论了?你不愿意看就别看啊,散布谣言,哗众取宠,吃人血馒头的就是你。 这个paper在华人上被贴了前前后后也得有十几次了吧,您觉得讨论的还不够?
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hagrid
我只说一句,人类科技还没有到这个水平。。。。
花落花开87


引发讨论是我的目的。

还有,老夫发什么与你有关系吗?不爱看自个玩去。

Puma2019 发表于 1/31/2020 5:42:19 PM

这个时候传这种无聊的谣言,唯恐天下不乱吗?
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Puma2019

哈哈,准你发还不准我评论了?你不愿意看就别看啊,散布谣言,哗众取宠,吃人血馒头的就是你。 这个paper在华人上被贴了前前后后也得有十几次了吧,您觉得讨论的还不够?

Riquelme 发表于 1/31/2020 5:51:30 PM


我禁评了? 你要是评论反驳,我欢迎之至。你要诛心,那我就请你滚。

贴了十几遍了?第一我没看到;第二,即便贴一万遍了,老夫想发就发。
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Puma2019

这个时候传这种无聊的谣言,唯恐天下不乱吗?
花落花开87 发表于 1/31/2020 5:58:15 PM


这怎么叫谣言?这是正经的学术文章,公开发表,上线就是给人评论的。

何况,本人还贴了反方的论点。你们在心虚什么?
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luming
瞎扯。贴文前看看bioxRiv是什么。。。。 这个只是一个网络archive,收集生物科学方面一些投稿而已。跟peer reviewed journal完全不一样。 "印度科学家认为"好吓人的标题 LOL https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/ewuotw/discussion_biorxiv_preprint_on_2019ncov_spike/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share 2 hours ago What do you think about this comment: This study is crap. My comment from another thread. This paper isn't peer reviewed or published. It's just an online journal. I've worked pretty closely with gag in my PhD thesis. Gag is the conglomerate protein that gets cut by the protease to generate the hiv capsid, matrix, and carrier proteins. Gp120 is the receptor protein. This is a really fucking dumb study and these scientists should be ashamed. Those amino acids are so short. They just went and looked for a virus to match. You can go and blast the amino acids yourself. Just copy and paste from the journal entry into NCBIs BLASTp. I did it and there's hundreds of matches to those sequences. HIV didn't even come up in the first 100. The 4th residue is missing like 6 amino acids. There are conserved regions in viruses. Their "gp120" match compares 6 amino acids out of 850 in the whole protein for example. They found 4 sections that were in the new virus but not SARS. They then took these differences and ran them against all known viral proteins. They only looked at proteins with 100% matches, but if you look at the table they didn't match 100% for alignment. So like one is ABCEFG and they match it to an HIV protein that is ABCXYZEFG and they are calling those total matches. There's also tons of viruses that match these tiny sequences, they just noticed all 4 have HIV matches so they ignore the other matches and only looked at HIV. Go blast it yourself if you want. level 1 BurrShotFirst1804 46 points · 1 hour ago Gag sequence: MGARASVLSG GELDRWEKIR LRPGGKKKYK LKHIVWASRE LERFAVNPGL LETSEGCRQI LGQLQPSLQT GSEELRSLYN TVATLYCVHQ RIEIKDTKEA LDKIEEEQNK SKKKAQQAAA DTGHSNQVSQ NYPIVQNIQG QMVHQAISPR TLNAWVKVVE EKAFSPEVIP MFSALSEGAT PQDLNTMLNT VGGHQAAMQM LKETINEEAA EWDRVHPVHA GPIAPGQMRE PRGSDIAGTT STLQEQIGWM TNNPPIPVGE IYKRWIILGL NKIVRMYSPT SILDIRQGPK EPFRDYVDRF YKTLRAEQAS QEVKNWMTET LLVQNANPDC KTILKALGPA ATLEEMMTAC QGVGGPGHKA RVLAEAMSQV TNSATIMMQR GNFRNQRKIV KCFNCGKEGH TARNCRAPRK KGCWKCGKEG HQMKDCTERQ ANFLGKIWPS YKGRPGNFLQ SRPEPTAPPE ESFRSGVETT TPPQKQEPID KELYPLTSLR SLFGNDPSSQ Alleged "gag" match: QTNS--------PRRA Actual gag sequence: QTNSSILMQRSNFKGPRRA To begin with this is such a tiny random part of gag. Like 1%. It's also not a 100% match. They just ignore the middle part and call it a match anyway. Except this isn't your standard HIV sequence for gag. It's a unique isotype labs found in India. This sequence is NOT found in actual standard gag. Which is super confusing in general. Also the other matches are from 3 other strains of HIV. So it's not even 4 of the same subtype which just makes this even more ridiculously terrible of a paper.
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Puma2019
回复 35楼luming的帖子 是否学术文章与是否peer review 毫无关系。 你当然可以说,“这不是peer reviewed,所以可信度低,相当于民科”。 这算是个反驳,但是一个弱反驳;并不令人信服。 更好的反驳是有理有据,指出其逻辑或者事实错误的问题,那才是强反驳。
花落花开87
回复 35楼luming的帖子

是否学术文章与是否peer review 毫无关系。

你当然可以说,“这不是peer reviewed,所以可信度低,相当于民科”。 这算是个反驳,但是一个弱反驳;并不令人信服。

更好的反驳是有理有据,指出其逻辑或者事实错误的问题,那才是强反驳。
Puma2019 发表于 1/31/2020 6:37:45 PM


35楼的反驳还weak?你但凡有一点生物的常识都应该看明白是多strong的反证!噢,我忘了,你和你同事都不懂英文,还在用Google translate看文献呢😂😂
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Threebears
哇,全版的五毛都集中过来洗地了,本来觉得新德里大学这个研究就是凑个热闹,看来要好好看看了,搞不好有道理
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mjwxn
从不相信印度话,是党报的民主版
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kreaty
印度专家不是说牛尿能治吗
台灯MM
哇,全版的五毛都集中过来洗地了,本来觉得新德里大学这个研究就是凑个热闹,看来要好好看看了,搞不好有道理
Threebears 发表于 1/31/2020 7:46:59 PM
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CleverBeaver
这篇文章关键没有对照标准 所以你也没有办法说他一定是胡说 关键是,lz的朋友上回不是也提出hiv一说吗?朋友有没有觉得自己的idea被抢了?
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CleverBeaver
美国及中国都有研究SARS 的专家,只有内行的人才知道是谁造的的病毒
zishuixin 发表于 1/31/2020 5:43:42 PM

呵呵
是的

美帝专家有不少为了自己发paper方便(需要国内给病毒序列)也狂踩这篇文章

这篇文章其实思路可以的,可能结论有点夸大了

可以存疑
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CleverBeaver
哇,全版的五毛都集中过来洗地了,本来觉得新德里大学这个研究就是凑个热闹,看来要好好看看了,搞不好有道理
Threebears 发表于 1/31/2020 7:46:59 PM

me three
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CleverBeaver
🇨🇳还有一篇说nCoV2019来自蛇,也属于热闹乱凑
好奇宝宝1314
估计想着扬名立万,真的就出名了,假的也没啥伤害。
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CleverBeaver
估计想着扬名立万,真的就出名了,假的也没啥伤害。
好奇宝宝1314 发表于 2/1/2020 9:21:20 AM

well
至少指出了一个被忽略的盲点
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zxtoca
中国搞这个有什么好处吗?弄出来干什么用?祸害自己人?
lovejake 发表于 1/31/2020 5:27:48 PM

这个是要用来称霸宇宙地,只是p4的蠢所长带了一群蠢驴没保护好,泄漏出来了
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Mimi4
哇,全版的五毛都集中过来洗地了,本来觉得新德里大学这个研究就是凑个热闹,看来要好好看看了,搞不好有道理
Threebears 发表于 1/31/2020 7:46:59 PM

re,而且好多早期华人注册号的id。