其他人,很多人都站在他的side, side with the bully, laugh with the bully.... 他对其他人都挺好的,只针对我一个。我领导手下就我一个小兵。 Xinxin2012 发表于 9/16/2019 7:21:30 PM
难道你指望别人替你出头对付bully吗?人家凭什么?你自己都忍了还怪别人不出头……
他说你cheap的时候你就应该直接撂脸子说“calling a woman cheap is very disrespectful and unprofessional in a work environment”,这样把他说你的话重复一下免得他过后不认账,而且一堆人面前他如果说I'm joking的话你就回"Your joke is offensive and inappropriate, which make me feel uncomfortable "
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later..... 2. 他还会说:She is so cheap; 3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die. 4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target.
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later..... 2. 他还会说:She is so cheap; 3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die. 4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target. Xinxin2012 发表于 9/16/2019 11:59:48 PM [/url]
这些话都不是直接针对楼主说的吧?你确定他是在说你吗?“she is so cheap” 这里的对话双方是谁啊?不过第一句话这种事情确实不适合在工作场合讲,应该跟HR备案。
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later..... 2. 他还会说:She is so cheap; 3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die. 4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target.
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later..... 2. 他还会说:She is so cheap; 3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die. 4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target.
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later..... 2. 他还会说:She is so cheap; 3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die. 4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target.
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later..... 2. 他还会说:She is so cheap; 3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die. 4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target.
lz可以反击,但是一定要用开玩笑的方式: 1. what does it say about someone who calls female cheap? 2. wow, I am amazed that you got your college degree. I hope at least they refunded your tuition. 3. I feel so sorry for your wife... just curious, how large was the diamond on the engagement ring for her to be so blind? 4. I wish I can die as well, that way I don't have to do your job while you are bitching about female (to your point 3, if true) 5. Oh really? Since when did you become the boss? (to your point 4) 6. (Pretending to call someone on your cell phone) Medical emergency... we have a schizophrenic with a 5 year old mind trapped in the body of 60 here at XXX, XXX, XXX (address). He is out of control. Please send help.
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later..... - Your turn next? 2. 他还会说:She is so cheap; - You are cheaper 3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die. You go first. 4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target. Typically the old one goes first.
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later..... 2. 他还会说:She is so cheap; 3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die. 4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target.
Xinxin2012 发表于 9/16/2019 11:59:48 PM
这种人典型的欠收拾。 没有实证的话 去HR 不管用。
第一个场景,你就要装听不懂,让他说清楚当着大家的面。excuse me? What do you mean? I am not following you.
如果你经过时他说,你就停下来,礼貌的问他, sorry are you talking to me?
支持楼主fight back。这个我一次都忍不了。告诉他it was rude to talk like that. I didn’t deserve it. 如果没用,就像一层楼里的JM说得那样讽刺嘲笑回去。只有fight back,别人才知道你不是好欺负的,才能获得尊重。你的manager让你ignore,明显是不想给自己惹麻烦,令人气愤😡。
这种人就是挑软柿子捏,越忍他越来劲。 如果要准备回击的话: 1. 跟你的直接上司谈,要求换一个座位,离他远远的 2. 找HR谈话,你可以把你的经历换成假设的场景,如果一个管理层人员这样这样,是否构成bully/harassment,寻求公司的指引 3.将他abuse的言语行为记录成文字,要有时间地点其他人物,以后escalate to HR或者律师可以用得上 4. 和他对话的时候要有eye contact,他说chicken is cheap,你可以回:are you selling? sorry i am not interested. "Always get rid of the new one" - it's not about new or old, it's all about value. 5. 或者直接走开,说excuse me, i feel sick and need to get some fresh air。又或者立马带上耳机。 我有朋友被极品上司一直欺负,她其实脾气很好,上司把她redundant了,只给了两个星期的赔偿。朋友后来去找律师,运气好,拿回了多几个月的赔偿,而且极品上司后来也被裁了。律师费谈好的是按赔偿额的百分比。
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later..... 2. 他还会说:She is so cheap; 3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die. 4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target.
“He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later.” - if this is the case, he is providing you lawsuit material, which gives you a good position.
Do go to the psychiatrist and express that you are in serious emotional distress and even depression. You fear that he has the history and power of harassing and bullying a former colleague into committing suicide.
You should ask the company for protection for fear of personal harm - it is company's responsibility to ensure a safe and healthy work place.
Do not put out verbal fight - only ask him what he means, and ask him publicly "Do you have any problem with me?" And say it clearly "It appears to me that what you have just said is targeting me, and I want you to stop targeting me!"
Make him talk, what he says cannot hurt you if you know what you are doing - make him say things that incriminate himself! Record what he said is the best way, even without the recording device, you could write it down in emails and send to your boss and HR right away.
大公司的话不用怕,有正常流程,哪怕你要走人,也不能给这个东西好果子吃。Everyday, when he starts the attack, make it clear that you will start recording, and if necessary, record the whole day, Everyday! There are some affordable small recordings device on amazon, less than 50 dollars, which can record very long time, several hours.
After you get the evidence, 1) check with psychologists and tell them you have anxiety attack or whatever because of the abuse; 2) bring the doctor’s notes snd your evidence to HR and file an official complaint.
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later..... 2. 他还会说:She is so cheap; 3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die. 4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target.
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later..... - Your turn next? 2. 他还会说:She is so cheap; - You are cheaper 3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die. You go first. 4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target. Typically the old one goes first.
他说 楼主 cheap, people pleasure, desperate...blah..blah.
另外一个方面,他是我的hiring manager 的竞争对手, 两人在竞争VP 的位置。
不想 make a scene.. 楼主性格是比较SOFT, 说话从来不吐脏字, 有点chicken,怕事的类型。
所以想问大家,如果不忍,应该怎么办? 忍得非常非常的内伤,晚上睡不着觉,早上害怕去上班。
留好证据
如果你选择忍,但是还是在乎他说的,那就是做不到忍,那就别忍了。他说的构成了hostile work environment, 做记录,留证据,告HR
其他人,很多人都站在他的side, side with the bully, laugh with the bully.... 他对其他人都挺好的,只针对我一个。我领导手下就我一个小兵。
我选择了忍,但是,我快忍不下去了,分分钟钟想quit; 可是楼主的resume does not look good and will look even worse if I leave at this moment.
我想指桑骂槐的骂回去,可是又担心,撕破脸了,是不是公司里面一个人都不理我了。
他不是你老板,也不是你老板的老板,你这么怕他干嘛。另外,这事情早该让你的manager知道啊。
这个导演一天到晚没事做的吗?
另外强烈赞同楼主去人事部备案。
director 越bully, director 就变的越 popular, more and more people will flock to kiss his ass.... 不想成为对方的目标吧。
https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/wysk/harassed_at_work.cfm
我质问过对方,为何不停的攻击我,对方说,我多心了,不是在说我,都是在说别人,跟我没关系。。。
没用的,对方完全抵赖。 是否可以每天热战对方?骂回去?这样的话,估计大家会全部站队 director 地头蛇那边,我会被全线孤立。
别质问了,最后被人说无理取闹,想多了。多在网上看看,Verbal abuse的时候怎么说吧。
难道你指望别人替你出头对付bully吗?人家凭什么?你自己都忍了还怪别人不出头……
他说你cheap的时候你就应该直接撂脸子说“calling a woman cheap is very disrespectful and unprofessional in a work environment”,这样把他说你的话重复一下免得他过后不认账,而且一堆人面前他如果说I'm joking的话你就回"Your joke is offensive and inappropriate, which make me feel uncomfortable "
你一直忍才会给他得寸进尺的机会。
你事后质问有什么用啊,当然要他说你的时候直接反问,周围有很多人的时候最好,因为他也不敢保证是不是周围每一个人都愿意为了他在HR面前撒谎。
你能转组吗?他下次再说你你就先警告他,还是不停止的话再找hr,hr不行的话考虑file a report to eeoc
https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/wysk/harassed_at_work.cfm
跟你头头汇报了吗?你头头应该为你撑腰的
天,这个你还忍?录音,然后告他 ---发自Huaren 官方 iOS APP
决定撕了,Verbal Attack Back......我觉得我真的会全线被孤立的。。。大家肯定都会站到director 那边的。
要不然就是录下来发HR,外加医生报告
这种事情,hr是保密的。楼主不说,别人怎么会知道而站director side?
还有就是尽量避免接触呗,人都看不到,别人怎么骂楼主?
☆ 发自 iPhone 华人一网 1.14.05
楼主这是气疯了吧,愣是要把一个自己有理的事变成对自己不利的事,不要Verbal Attack Back,对方没事,你会被开除的
楼主还是具体说说怎么被对方verbal attack吧,完整地描述一两个场景,也许大家可以给你更加有效的建议。
re,逻辑上说不通,而且在竞争VP更加不希望出事吧,万一你告个HR他还得受调查,得不偿失。你说个具体的案例吧,看看是你玻璃心还是他没事找事
这个director 有后台吗?他后台大,还是你老板后台大?要是他后台大,你开始找工作准备走人。你老板明显不想保你淌混水。
另外、你每天必须见到他吗?能绕开走就绕开走。
楼主笨,情商低,请大家指教如何FIGHT BACK? 不能够直接说对方坏吗?
我老板后台大,现在的VP 跟我老板的私交要好很多。
给几个例子好吗?楼主老公也是包子,就让楼主忍,我已经忍不下去了。
能具体说说如何fight back 吗? 谢指教。楼主没有斗争经验。
心平气和再问问你老板该怎么办。举一个具体的例子。有谁谁是witness。你感觉你老板器重你吗?如果没有,准备找下家。
Google 一下看看哪些例子符合你的情景,照样子背几句英文,到时候临场应变。这种叫work place bully。
1. 他会在我在的时候说: He had a female colleague in the past and she committed suicide later.....
2. 他还会说:She is so cheap;
3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die.
4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target.
楼主老公还让楼主继续忍耐,我已经忍不下去了。。。
但是不知道该如何怂回去?????
这些话都不是直接针对楼主说的吧?你确定他是在说你吗?“she is so cheap” 这里的对话双方是谁啊?不过第一句话这种事情确实不适合在工作场合讲,应该跟HR备案。
情况可能不太常见,咨询一下律师吧,要有策略,不要随意发作,正中他圈套
听着这人是有神经病吧
3
你被bully,你告诉自己的老板了吗?先去问问他的意见,他应该站你这边出来给你撑腰 ---发自Huaren 官方 iOS APP
你在加州么?加州最近通过harrasment regulation, 每人都要每两年接受一次harrasment training。 而作为受害者,第一件事是你要当面跟对方说I do not like you saying that.不然的话,别人会说我不知道这个对你造成伤害。之后你可以去找hr。
如果确定只在你身边说,下次一定要接他的话,就说什么事,你重复一遍我没听清。他要是真重复一遍就反问跟我有关系么 他要是说随便说跟你没关系。你就说:那就好,我还以为你是说给我听的,下次有事直接喊我名字不然我会Miss。从头至尾要保持语气自然不卑不亢。
这种abuse我是忍不了的
难以置信 这也太明目张胆了吧 这情商也能做到Director 位置 没办法 要对付这种人 就要心理强大 会这么针对一个女生 肯定对女性没有任何尊重 肯定没老婆和妻子 这人听着觉得不正常
刚看到楼主的例子,确实挺creepy 的, 坐等高人指点, 可不可以录音呢?
u] ---发自Huaren 官方 iOS APP
1. what does it say about someone who calls female cheap?
2. wow, I am amazed that you got your college degree. I hope at least they refunded your tuition.
3. I feel so sorry for your wife... just curious, how large was the diamond on the engagement ring for her to be so blind?
4. I wish I can die as well, that way I don't have to do your job while you are bitching about female (to your point 3, if true)
5. Oh really? Since when did you become the boss? (to your point 4)
6. (Pretending to call someone on your cell phone) Medical emergency... we have a schizophrenic with a 5 year old mind trapped in the body of 60 here at XXX, XXX, XXX (address). He is out of control. Please send help.
回复39楼 burro 的帖子
我老板后台大,现在的VP 跟我老板的私交要好很多。
楼主小公司吗?小公司有时候管理层素质低到无法让人相信。楼主不要觉得反击会被孤立,不捍卫自己才让人看不起
- Your turn next?
2. 他还会说:She is so cheap;
- You are cheaper
3. 他还会在我经过他的桌子的时候说: die, you need to die.
You go first.
4. 或者在经过的我办公桌的时候说: Let's get rid of it, delete the new one; the new one is the target.
Typically the old one goes first.
这种人典型的欠收拾。 没有实证的话 去HR 不管用。
第一个场景,你就要装听不懂,让他说清楚当着大家的面。excuse me? What do you mean? I am not following you.
如果你经过时他说,你就停下来,礼貌的问他, sorry are you talking to me?
楼上的美眉的句子学下来,也会用的到。记住一点,一定不要急,就自当都弄老鼠🐭啦。
另外这不是大事。调整心态,以后职场事更多。祝好运
你cube边上有别的女性吗?有的话,和她们gossip一下,说自己觉得他这样说女性不合适。看看女性同事能否common ground。扩大战场。这样就不是你一个人fight了。
如果要准备回击的话:
1. 跟你的直接上司谈,要求换一个座位,离他远远的
2. 找HR谈话,你可以把你的经历换成假设的场景,如果一个管理层人员这样这样,是否构成bully/harassment,寻求公司的指引
3.将他abuse的言语行为记录成文字,要有时间地点其他人物,以后escalate to HR或者律师可以用得上
4. 和他对话的时候要有eye contact,他说chicken is cheap,你可以回:are you selling? sorry i am not interested. "Always get rid of the new one" - it's not about new or old, it's all about value.
5. 或者直接走开,说excuse me, i feel sick and need to get some fresh air。又或者立马带上耳机。
我有朋友被极品上司一直欺负,她其实脾气很好,上司把她redundant了,只给了两个星期的赔偿。朋友后来去找律师,运气好,拿回了多几个月的赔偿,而且极品上司后来也被裁了。律师费谈好的是按赔偿额的百分比。
这怎么能忍?????
先找HR,看看需要怎么取证。
你直接录音就好了 或者和公司里要好的姐妹说好 啥时候他又说你叫人家帮忙录音
留个证据 直接告他 弄个minor woman discrimination 他吃不了兜着走
Do go to the psychiatrist and express that you are in serious emotional distress and even depression. You fear that he has the history and power of harassing and bullying a former colleague into committing suicide.
You should ask the company for protection for fear of personal harm - it is company's responsibility to ensure a safe and healthy work place.
Do not put out verbal fight - only ask him what he means, and ask him publicly "Do you have any problem with me?" And say it clearly "It appears to me that what you have just said is targeting me, and I want you to stop targeting me!"
Make him talk, what he says cannot hurt you if you know what you are doing - make him say things that incriminate himself!
Record what he said is the best way, even without the recording device, you could write it down in emails and send to your boss and HR right away.
这已经绝对是harassment了。不管他跟你们vp有多好,你是有理由的那一方。我听说过不少这种例子,我觉得你要站出来跟他斗。一般是要报告HR,但是我觉得你可以去先找个律师咨询下。
我听说的那几个例子最后因为公司想保那个高层,后来就settle了,赔了几十万。也是游戏公司。
其实最近这种harassment被爆出来好几次了,riot之前就上了kotaku新闻。 ---发自Huaren 官方 iOS APP
这样口头反击没有意义。报告hr,采取其他法律行动才有用 ---发自Huaren 官方 iOS APP
After you get the evidence, 1) check with psychologists and tell them you have anxiety attack or whatever because of the abuse; 2) bring the doctor’s notes snd your evidence to HR and file an official complaint.
看你性格,就算开撕吵架你也不可能赢他。收集证据有理有据是唯一出路。这种事情你老板应该出面帮你挡掉的。自己手下都不能维护的老板,呆着也没意思。
LZ,你说的情况实在不合理。director应该很忙吧。要撕也应该找跟他同一级别的撕。他一边要管手下,一边要对付上级,还要和同级的竞争,我真的觉得如果他/她还有时间针对你,就实在是精力旺盛了。
最主要根据你的描述他人缘还不错。说明他挺会做人的。
那么只能总结出3种可能,1你曾经严重得罪过他;2他喜欢你;3你是不是过于敏感了。
同感觉应该是个小作坊。大公司director 很爱惜自己羽毛的,吃饱了撑的和小兵过不去。家庭小作坊的话,赞同公开怼,大声指出you don’t feel comfortable with these words.
LZ,你知不知道你举的几个例子已经不是bully了,而是神经病了。而且你还说是经常发生的。我真的很难相信。世界上虽然有变态,但是能做到director,说明他也是有逻辑的。除非整间公司的人都是疯子,不然他不可能说出你说的这些话。只有一种可能,就是你是他的私人秘书,他只有在你面前露出本来面目。但是你自己说和他都不是一个组的,也不是他直接的下属。
对于一个充满政治正确的美国公司,我从来没看到过这种人,也没听说过这种人。而我们公司,两个男同事开会吵架,一个说了Fword,就被严重警告,差点开除。所以,你说的内容在我看来已经近乎“传奇”了。
我劝你要不去看看医生吧。如果是坑,当我没说。
0. 自己想清楚,这件事你想要什么结果, 比如你想换走,或者他换走,或者他停止这样对你,等等等等。你要拿稳了,在和他,你老板,hr的交涉中才能明确交流你的需求
1. 公开,明确的对他表示你不接受他这样的对待,请他停止 (如果你不敢当面说,发邮件,抄送你老板和他们共同的老板);如果他还不停止,之后你上报就有立场了,不然他可以说他根本不知道你不接受,自己的开玩笑的
2. 对你的老板明确的表示(当年或书面)你对这件事很不舒服,请他帮助你;如果他不帮助你,以后你也有的说
3. 开始把每次他如何说你的都记录下来,要详细写下时间地点,有谁在场等细节; 如果能录音录像更好,录不下来的,或者是过去发生的,回忆出来写下来
4. 找hr报备,书面要求hr介入
5. 有人建议的去看心理医生,其实也是报备的一种,我倒觉得没有很大必要特意去做,你可以自己决定。
同意以上,但我建议看心理医生报备,以防公司HR不帮你,反而咬你一口,赶你走。这时候有心理医生的记录就可以休short-time disability了,有钱拿,又能找下家,何乐而不为。
不要忍。
第二,如果是我,我会撒娇的对他说,还用兰花指指着他说,You go to die.
总的来说,我觉得男老板比女老板容易搞定!特别是直男 ---发自Huaren 官方 iOS APP
见过这个director类型的,就是捏软柿子,很变态
提供一个例子,朋友公司的一个女职员,因为看到了别人被“abuse”然后被干扰无法工作,各种上报HR,manager,等等。