1) 3 types of 401K: pre-tax 401K, ROTH 401K, after-tax 401K 2) Example of tax benefit: Assume amount invested = 10K, profit = 2K Under pretax 401K, you pay no tax now, and tax at 12K when you withdraw. Under ROTH 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and no tax later. Under after-tax 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and another tax at 2K when you withdraw. 3) Limit: Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K <= 18K Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K + company match + profit sharing + after tax 401K <= 54K 4) ROTH 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA. At the time you roll, you pay tax on the profit you’ve made. After roll, all future profit is tax free. So the earlier you roll, the more tax you save.
1) 3 types of 401K: pre-tax 401K, ROTH 401K, after-tax 401K 2) Example of tax benefit: Assume amount invested = 10K, profit = 2K Under pretax 401K, you pay no tax now, and tax at 12K when you withdraw. Under ROTH 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and no tax later. Under after-tax 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and another tax at 2K when you withdraw. 3) Limit: Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K <= 18K Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K + company match + profit sharing + after tax 401K <= 54K 4) ROTH 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA. At the time you roll, you pay tax on the profit you’ve made. After roll, all future profit is tax free. So the earlier you roll, the more tax you save. purplebasil 发表于 10/3/2017 10:15:43 AM
1) 3 types of 401K: pre-tax 401K, ROTH 401K, after-tax 401K 2) Example of tax benefit: Assume amount invested = 10K, profit = 2K Under pretax 401K, you pay no tax now, and tax at 12K when you withdraw. Under ROTH 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and no tax later. Under after-tax 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and another tax at 2K when you withdraw. 3) Limit: Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K <= 18K Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K + company match + profit sharing + after tax 401K <= 54K 4) ROTH 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA. At the time you roll, you pay tax on the profit you’ve made. After roll, all future profit is tax free. So the earlier you roll, the more tax you save. purplebasil 发表于 10/3/2017 10:15:43 AM
有个问题: after tax 401 roll to Roth IRA的话，是否和backdoor每年的5500限制的有冲突？
Key points: 1) 3 types of 401K: pre-tax 401K, ROTH 401K, after-tax 401K 2) Example of tax benefit: Assume amount invested = 10K, profit = 2K Under pretax 401K, you pay no tax now, and tax at 12K when you withdraw. Under ROTH 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and no tax later. Under after-tax 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and another tax at 2K when you withdraw. 3) Limit: Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K <= 18K Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K + company match + profit sharing + after tax 401K <= 54K 4) ROTH 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA. At the time you roll, you pay tax on the profit you’ve made. After roll, all future profit is tax free. So the earlier you roll, the more tax you save.
A backdoor Roth IRA allows you to get around income limits by converting a Traditional IRA into a Roth IRA. Contributing directly to a Roth IRA is restricted if your income is beyond certain limits, but there are no income limits for conversions. The amount of money you can contribute to a Roth IRA is normally limited, but a backdoor Roth IRA has no limits on the amount of the conversion.
有个问题: after tax 401 roll to Roth IRA的话，是否和backdoor每年的5500限制的有冲突？
Key points: 1) 3 types of 401K: pre-tax 401K, ROTH 401K, after-tax 401K 2) Example of tax benefit: Assume amount invested = 10K, profit = 2K Under pretax 401K, you pay no tax now, and tax at 12K when you withdraw. Under ROTH 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and no tax later. Under after-tax 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and another tax at 2K when you withdraw. 3) Limit: Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K <= 18K Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K + company match + profit sharing + after tax 401K <= 54K 4) ROTH 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA. At the time you roll, you pay tax on the profit you’ve made. After roll, all future profit is tax free. So the earlier you roll, the more tax you save.
1) 3 types of 401K: pre-tax 401K, ROTH 401K, after-tax 401K 2) Example of tax benefit: Assume amount invested = 10K, profit = 2K Under pretax 401K, you pay no tax now, and tax at 12K when you withdraw. Under ROTH 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and no tax later. Under after-tax 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and another tax at 2K when you withdraw. 3) Limit: Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K <= 18K Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K + company match + profit sharing + after tax 401K <= 54K 4) ROTH 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA. At the time you roll, you pay tax on the profit you’ve made. After roll, all future profit is tax free. So the earlier you roll, the more tax you save. purplebasil 发表于 10/3/2017 10:15:43 AM
Thanks for the explanations! A couple of questions:
The 4) Roth 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA only when you change employer or retire, right?
The after-tax 401K can be converted to roth 401K if the in-plan rollover is allowed, right?
A backdoor Roth IRA allows you to get around income limits by converting a Traditional IRA into a Roth IRA. Contributing directly to a Roth IRA is restricted if your income is beyond certain limits, but there are no income limits for conversions. The amount of money you can contribute to a Roth IRA is normally limited, but a backdoor Roth IRA has no limits on the amount of the conversion.
purplebasil 发表于 10/3/2017 11:33:29 AM
这个里面有个confusion $5500是每年 ira (tra+roth)的limit 但是backdoor没有limit, 所以有人放了好几年的tra 一次转，只要每年没有过5500就可以
1) 3 types of 401K: pre-tax 401K, ROTH 401K, after-tax 401K 2) Example of tax benefit: Assume amount invested = 10K, profit = 2K Under pretax 401K, you pay no tax now, and tax at 12K when you withdraw. Under ROTH 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and no tax later. Under after-tax 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and another tax at 2K when you withdraw. 3) Limit: Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K <= 18K Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K + company match + profit sharing + after tax 401K <= 54K 4) ROTH 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA. At the time you roll, you pay tax on the profit you’ve made. After roll, all future profit is tax free. So the earlier you roll, the more tax you save. purplebasil 发表于 10/3/2017 10:15:43 AM
Key points: 1) 3 types of 401K: pre-tax 401K, ROTH 401K, after-tax 401K 2) Example of tax benefit: Assume amount invested = 10K, profit = 2K Under pretax 401K, you pay no tax now, and tax at 12K when you withdraw. Under ROTH 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and no tax later. Under after-tax 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and another tax at 2K when you withdraw. 3) Limit: Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K <= 18K Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K + company match + profit sharing + after tax 401K <= 54K 4) ROTH 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA. At the time you roll, you pay tax on the profit you’ve made. After roll, all future profit is tax free. So the earlier you roll, the more tax you save.
可以投资，这个和401k类似是由plan决定的，有的是买指定范围基金，有的可以连brokage account炒股等等。限制就是withdrawal 只能用于医疗目的，不然要交税交罚金。如果退休了以后医疗没用完，到了一定年龄可以转为其它用途，不用交罚金。 After age 65 or Medicare eligibility, withdrawals for nonmedical expenses are not subject to the 20% penalty, though they are subject to income taxes, just as they would be from a traditional IRA. Contributions to the account can be made only up until an individual hits Medicare eligibility.
1) 3 types of 401K: pre-tax 401K, ROTH 401K, after-tax 401K 2) Example of tax benefit: Assume amount invested = 10K, profit = 2K Under pretax 401K, you pay no tax now, and tax at 12K when you withdraw. Under ROTH 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and no tax later. Under after-tax 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and another tax at 2K when you withdraw. 3) Limit: Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K <= 18K Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K + company match + profit sharing + after tax 401K <= 54K 4) ROTH 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA. At the time you roll, you pay tax on the profit you’ve made. After roll, all future profit is tax free. So the earlier you roll, the more tax you save. purplebasil 发表于 10/3/2017 10:15:43 AM
如果可以的话，你可以一年放53000到401k，其中18000是pre tax上限，剩下的after tax
然后你可以放IRA，HSA，和529
1. 如果楼主公司能after tax 401k就放那个
2.HSA放满
3.Backdoor IRA
还没小孩不知道529应该排在第几，希望懂的MM解惑
这些都存满了..那就做投资吧。。
自己做非常简单：
开个Roth ira帐户，再开一个traditional IRA
每年放5500到traditional，然后从traditional 转入roth
Fidelity vanguard 什么的都可以开的
或者google backdoor ira也可以看到很多信息
18000 是traditional 和 Roth 401k 总和
不知道如何超过这个数字
hsa只需要用医疗开支去抵消你存入hsa的钱，比如你每年存hsa上限3000，然后给孩子和自己看病花了3000，你只要向irs说明情况，你的hsa钱就可以变成自由取出不打税的钱了
存non deductible 401k是肯定比自己投资要好的，因为non deductible 401k的增值部分完全不需要缴税
Vanguard 里面没有任何帐户，是否可以开一个操作。谢谢
不要一味追求存钱，要和收入，近期远期的计划相结合再制定计划。
很多时候一个生活决定改变就会让多年省的税付之东流
所以是不是要做backdoor要看自己的情况：
前公司401k是否很烂已经转到traditional ira？
自己的收入是不是已经达到traditional ira tax deduction 的限制？
在410k的税前18000之外（这里假设目前税率很高），额外享受3400部分的免税
这笔钱可以自己看病，家人看病，小孩看病，买眼镜，隐形眼镜等等等等
这笔钱一直有效，可以留给自己的小孩
很多HSA帐户提供brokerage account，让HSA里的钱增长，并且增长部分只要留在HSA里用于医疗用途就不用交税
Backdoor roth的好处：
相当于5500放在一个不用交income tax的brokerage，本金随时可取没有penalty
要不要做backdoor，要考虑家庭收入，自己的投资能力和对市场的view，如果这钱放进去投资反而赔掉，也许存银行更好
所以HSA排backdoor之前，因为HSA的钱只要存进去就享受到了免税福利，但backdoor值不值得要看之后自己的管理
life is short, go enjoy life...
增值部分免税
可以和traditional 401k还有roth 401k有同样fund选择
很多公司的401k提供self directed brokerage，可以自己选择投资任意stock bond etf etc.
希望其他MM补充
☆ 发自 iPhone 华人一网 1.11.08
pre-tax和roth 401k加起来的limit是18000
401k总的limit是53000，所以工资高的人可以继续contribute after tax 401k
https://www.doughroller.net/retirement-planning/pros-and-cons-of-after-tax-401k-contributions/
after-tax 401K is tax deferred, not tax free. The profit is taxed as income when you withdraw. That is the whole purpose of 转成roth IRA.
1) 3 types of 401K: pre-tax 401K, ROTH 401K, after-tax 401K
2) Example of tax benefit:
Assume amount invested = 10K, profit = 2K
Under pretax 401K, you pay no tax now, and tax at 12K when you withdraw.
Under ROTH 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and no tax later.
Under after-tax 401K, you pay tax at 10K now, and another tax at 2K when you withdraw.
3) Limit:
Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K <= 18K
Pretax 401K + ROTH 401K + company match + profit sharing + after tax 401K <= 54K
4) ROTH 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA. At the time you roll, you pay tax on the profit you’ve made. After roll, all future profit is tax free. So the earlier you roll, the more tax you save.
多谢紫苏mm
按20-30年以上长远看，tax deferred的优势就很明显了
有个问题:
after tax 401 roll to Roth IRA的话，是否和backdoor每年的5500限制的有冲突？
自己做非常简单：
开个Roth ira帐户，再开一个traditional IRA
每年放5500到traditional，然后从traditional 转入roth
Fidelity vanguard 什么的都可以开的
或者google backdoor ira也可以看到很多信息
sabrina1110 发表于 10/2/2017 10:36:57 PM
----mark,学习
Are you able to open a traditional IRA account if you already have a company sponsored 401K?
A backdoor Roth IRA allows you to get around income limits by converting a Traditional IRA into a Roth IRA.
Contributing directly to a Roth IRA is restricted if your income is beyond certain limits, but there are no income limits for conversions.
The amount of money you can contribute to a Roth IRA is normally limited, but a backdoor Roth IRA has no limits on the amount of the conversion.
The 4) Roth 401K and after-tax 401K can be rolled into ROTH IRA only when you change employer or retire, right?
The after-tax 401K can be converted to roth 401K if the in-plan rollover is allowed, right?
Sorry cannot type in Chinese.
After tax 401K只有转成roth 以后，gain 才能免税。
如果你想做backdoor，建议roll over到新公司的401k plan里面，不然做backdoor要按比例来，比较麻烦。如果rollover 到traditional ira，好处是fund 选择多，随便怎么操作都可以
Roth IRA是应该放第一位的，但是有收入限制，如果可以，应该先放满。
☆ 发自 iPhone 华人一网 1.11.12
限制医疗领域是指hsa里的钱只有使用在medical上才能维持tax free
可以投资，这个和401k类似是由plan决定的，有的是买指定范围基金，有的可以连brokage account炒股等等。限制就是withdrawal 只能用于医疗目的，不然要交税交罚金。如果退休了以后医疗没用完，到了一定年龄可以转为其它用途，不用交罚金。
After age 65 or Medicare eligibility, withdrawals for nonmedical expenses are not subject to the 20% penalty, though they are subject to income taxes, just as they would be from a traditional IRA. Contributions to the account can be made only up until an individual hits Medicare eligibility.
所以说这也是一个没有收入限制的IRA.
赞！总结得简单明了！谢谢！
进来学习一下~~~~~~~~~~~
百分比没关系 总数一定不是么
要rollover 的是after tax 401K.
跟你公司的plan 有关。你得自己去问。
谢谢，所以我的情况就是把pretax 401k和roth 401k放满（两个一起<18000）就行了是吗？
要是你公司只有这两个选择，是的。
不过你也可以考虑back door roth如果收入已经超了线的话。$5500一年，也聊胜于无。
还有HSA. 如果你有HDHP.
hsa已经放满了。
如果收入过线，先去开roth ira，然后backdoor roth $5500一年是这个意思吗？
1. PPO， premium 100+， 0 deductible， 看医生ER救护车等等全免费， 有时候10 copay， 可以FSA但是不能存HSA
2. HSA， premium 300+， 3000 deductible（公司给1500）， 6000 max oop， 不能存FSA可以存HSA
3. HSA， premium 0， 5200 deductible（公司给1200）， 7200 max oop， 不能存FSA可以存HSA
这种情况难道也是要选HSA放满吗？我们目前选的1， 所以没办法存HSA
看到我看到我。。。
真心求建议， 我们应该换成HSA的保险吗？
你一年HSA放满3500能省多少税？？？
你一年在medical上花多少钱？？？
把premium加起来两个一比较不就知道了？？
我是觉得不用， 可是楼里人人默认hsa必须放满呀， 我想知道是不是哪里想错了
你家需要用哪个plan真的只有你自己知道，考虑进你的税率，你家庭现在一年的medical spent，和你自己做投资的能力
每个人的保险都不一样啊。你得自己算。没有一个一刀切的答案.而且为啥是3500？家庭的上限是6750，包括employer contribution.