关于abortion right你必须知道的几个真相和事实

雷锋叔叔
楼主 (北美华人网)
Roe vs Wade这个最高法院的判决肯定了abortion权利是宪法保障的妇女权益,各个州根本没有资格作出违宪的法律,如果一边叫嚣law and order,一边说各个州不顾宪法自行管制,那就是个法盲最高法院同时以胎儿是否可以在母体外能否独立存活来界定限制abortion的标准,一般医学上在没有特殊情况下以怀孕24周来判断
美国总体上是非常歧视abortion的,现在基本绝大部分医院不做abortion,都是在abortion clinics,这些诊所基本上天天都有人在抗议,让任何一个寻求abortion帮助的妇女都有负罪感
即使是这些诊所,大部分都只做第一孕期(12周前)的,公开做第二孕期的诊所在全美国估计就20个左右吧

abortion争议的一个焦点是late term abortion,一般认为18到20周以后就是了。late term abortion在整个abortion里面是非常非常少的比例,大概1%都不到,很多选择late term abortion是因为胎儿被诊断
出重大疾病,这些都是期待宝宝的妈妈,却不得不面对这种极其痛苦的选择,现在各种对late term abortion的限制,简直就是对这些妈妈的双重摧残。这里要解释一下,现在医学上对胎儿进行基因检查最有效
最安全的做法是羊穿,一般在18周左右作,等检查结果出来大概都是在20~22周左右了。现在GOP在17个州通过了禁止20周以后abortion,本质就是禁止这些妈妈选择的权利,从道德上绑架妇女
更有过分的,north dakota, indiana 直接立法禁止孕妇因为胎儿的基因问题abortion,就是说你怀了唐氏儿,你也必须生下来,这就是所谓极右GOP的限制政府管制!

在整个美国,公开做late term abortion医生只有4个,之前有5个,09年George Tiller被反abortion的人直接在教堂开枪打死了,极右势力一边叫嚣宪法保障拥枪,一边反对宪法保障的abortion,
大概就是为了用枪来谋杀支持abortion的医生!
即使今天的美国社会,基于反abortion的暴力恐怖袭击曾出不穷,不客气地说,这些人搞得恐怖袭击一点不比穆斯林少!!都是打着所谓神的旗号!
雷锋叔叔
2 楼
United States[edit]
Murders[edit]
In the United States, violence directed towards abortion providers has killed at least eleven people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, a police officer, two people (unclear of their connection), and a clinic escort;[I 1][I 2] Seven murders occurred in the 1990s.[I 3]

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.[I 4]
July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility, the Ladies Center, in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003. The clinic in Pensacola had been bombed before in 1984 and was also bombed subsequently in 2012.[I 5]
December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.[I 5]
January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Rudolph admitted responsibility; he was also charged with three Atlanta bombings: the 1997 bombing of an abortion center, the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, and another of a lesbian nightclub. He was charged with the crimes and received two life sentences as a result.[I 6]
October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian's murder after being apprehended in France in 2001.[I 7]
May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at a church in Wichita, Kansas.[I 8]
November 29, 2015: A shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, left three dead and several injured, and a suspect Robert L. Dear was apprehended.[I 9][I 10][I 11] The suspect had previously acted against other clinics, and referred to himself as a "warrior for the babies" at his hearing.[I 12][I 13] Neighbors and former neighbors described the suspect as "reclusive",[I 10] and police from several states where the suspect resided described a history of run-ins dating from at least 1997.[I 11] As of December 2015, the trial of the suspect is on going;[I 12] however, on May 11, 2016, the suspect was declared by the court incompetent to stand trial.[I 14]
雷锋叔叔
3 楼
Attempted murder, assault, and kidnapping[edit]
According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, 13 wounded,[12] 100 butyric acid attacks, 373 physical invasions, 41 bombings, 655 anthrax threats,[13] and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[I 15] Between 1997 and 1990 77 death threats were made with 250 made between 1991 and 1999 .[12] Attempted murders in the U.S. included:[I 1][I 16][I 17] IN 1985 45% of clinics reported bomb threats, decreasing to 15% in 2000. One fifth of clinics in 2000 experienced some form of extreme activity. [14]

August 1982: Three men identifying as the Army of God kidnapped Hector Zevallos (a doctor and clinic owner) and his wife, Rosalee Jean, holding them for eight days.[15]
June 15, 1984: A month after he destroyed suction equipment at a Birmingham clinic, Father Edward Markley, a Benedictine priest who was the Birmingham diocesan "Coordinator for Pro-Life Activities".[I 18][I 19] (and perhaps an accomplice[citation needed]), entered the Women's Community Health Center in Huntsville, Alabama, assaulting at least three clinic workers.[citation needed] Kathryn Wood, one of the workers, received back injuries and a broken neck vertebrae while preventing Markley from splashing red paint on the clinic's equipment. Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief, one count of third-degree assault, and one count of harassment in the Huntsville attack.[16]
August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was convicted of the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).
July 29, 1994: June Barrett was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second degree attempted murder and was sentenced to 20 years. "Donald Cooper's Day of Violence", by Kara Lowentheil, Choice! Magazine, December 21, 2004.
October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.[I 20]
January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed off-duty police officer Robert Sanderson.
雷锋叔叔
4 楼
Arson, bombing, and property crime[edit]
According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").[I 15] The New York Times also cites over one hundred clinic bombings and incidents of arson, over three hundred invasions, and over four hundred incidents of vandalism between 1978 and 1993.[I 21] The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.[I 22] Incidents have included:

May 26, 1983: Joseph Grace set the Hillcrest clinic in Norfolk, Virginia ablaze. He was arrested while sleeping in his van a few blocks from the clinic when a patrol officer noticed the smell of kerosene.[I 23]
May 12, 1984: Two men entered a Birmingham, Alabama clinic on Mother's Day weekend shortly after a lone woman opened the doors at 7:25 A.M. Forcing their way into the clinic, one of the men threatened the woman if she tried to prevent the attack while the other, wielding a sledgehammer, did between $7,500 and $8,500 of damage to suction equipment. The man who damaged the equipment was later identified as Father Edward Markley. Father Markley is a Benedictine priest who was the Birmingham diocesan "Coordinator for Pro-Life Activities". Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief and second-degree burglary. His accomplice has never been identified. The following month (near Father's Day), Markley entered a women's health center in Huntsville, Alabama (see above).[I 19]
December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida, were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."[I 24][I 25][I 26] The clinic, the Ladies Center, would later be the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994 and a firebombing in 2012.
July 27, 1987: Eight members of the Bible Missionary Fellowship, a fundamentalist church in Santee, California, attempted to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic. Church member Cheryl Sullenger procured gunpowder, bomb materials, and a disguise for co-conspirator Eric Everett Svelmoe, who planted a gasoline bomb. It was placed at the premises but failed to detonate as the fuse was blown out by wind.[17]
July 3, 1989: A fire was started at the Feminist Health Center clinic in Concord NH on the day U.S. Supreme Court upheld a Missouri law banning funding of public facilities as related to abortion. The clinic was set afire again in 2000.[I 27]
March 29, 1993: Blue Mountain Clinic in Missoula, Montana; at around 1 a.m., an arsonist snuck onto the premises and firebombed the clinic. The perpetrator, a Washington man, was ultimately caught, convicted and imprisoned. The facility was a near-total loss, but all of the patients' records, though damaged, survived the fire in metal file cabinets.[I 28][I 29][I 30][I 31]
January 1997: Eric Rudolph admitted, as part of a plea deal for the Centennial Olympic Park bombing at the 1996 Olympic Games to placing a pair of bombs that exploded at the Northside Family Planning Services clinic in the Atlanta suburb of Sandy Springs.[I 6]
May 21, 1998: Three people were injured when acid was poured at the entrances of five abortion clinics in Miami, Florida.[I 32]
October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.[I 33]
May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire, resulted in several thousand dollars' worth of damage. The case remains unsolved.[I 34][I 35][I 36] This was the second arson at the clinic.[I 37]
September 30, 2000: John Earl, a Catholic priest, drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being forced to the ground by the owner of the building, who fired two warning shots from a shotgun.[I 38]
June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington, destroyed a wall, resulting in $6,000 in damages.[I 33][I 39]
July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida, was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[I 33]
December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a "memorial lamp" for an abortion she had had there.[I 40]
September 11, 2006: David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan, crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions; however, Edgerton is not an abortion clinic.[I 41] Time magazine listed the incident in a "Top 10 Inept Terrorist Plots" list.[I 42]
April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas, contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.[I 43]
May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[I 44]
December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Baca's girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.[I 45][I 46]
January 22, 2009: Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness[I 47] rammed an SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.[I 48]
January 1, 2012: Bobby Joe Rogers, 41, firebombed the American Family Planning Clinic in Pensacola, Florida, with a Molotov cocktail; the fire gutted the building. Rogers told investigators that he was motivated to commit the crime by his opposition to abortion, and that what more directly prompted the act was seeing a patient enter the clinic during one of the frequent anti-abortion protests there. The clinic had previously been bombed at Christmas in 1984 and was the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994.[I 49]
April 1, 2012: A bomb exploded on the windowsill of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, resulting in a fire that damaged one of the clinic's examination rooms. No injuries were reported.
April 11, 2013: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Bloomington, Indiana, was vandalized with an axe.[I 50]
September 4, 2015: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Pullman, Washington was intentionally set on fire. No injuries were reported due to the time of day, but the FBI was involved because of a history of domestic terrorism against the clinic.[I 51]
October 22, 2015: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Claremont, New Hampshire was vandalized by a juvenile intruder. Damaged in the attack were computers, furniture, plumbing fixtures, office equipment, medical equipment, phone lines, windows, and walls. The flooding that resulted from the vandalism also damaged an adjacent business.[I 52][I 53]
l
littleball
5 楼
Roe vs Wade这个最高法院的判决肯定了abortion权利是宪法保障的妇女权益,各个州根本没有资格作出违宪的法律,如果一边叫嚣law and order,一边说各个州不顾宪法自行管制,那就是个法盲最高法院同时以胎儿是否可以在母体外能否独立存活来界定限制abortion的标准,一般医学上在没有特殊情况下以怀孕24周来判断
美国总体上是非常歧视abortion的,现在基本绝大部分医院不做abortion,都是在abortion clinics,这些诊所基本上天天都有人在抗议,让任何一个寻求abortion帮助的妇女都有负罪感
即使是这些诊所,大部分都只做第一孕期(12周前)的,公开做第二孕期的诊所在全美国估计就20个左右吧

abortion争议的一个焦点是late term abortion,一般认为18到20周以后就是了。late term abortion在整个abortion里面是非常非常少的比例,大概0.5%都不到,很多选择late term abortion是因为胎儿被诊断
出重大疾病,这些都是期待宝宝的妈妈,却不得不面对这种极其痛苦的选择,现在各种对late term abortion的限制,简直就是对这些妈妈的双重摧残。这里要解释一下,现在医学上对胎儿进行基因检查最有效
最安全的做法是羊穿,一般在18周左右作,等检查结果出来大概都是在20~22周左右了。现在GOP在17个州通过了禁止20周以后abortion,本质就是禁止这些妈妈选择的权利,从道德上绑架妇女
更有过分的,north dakota, indiana 直接立法禁止孕妇因为胎儿的基因问题abortion,就是说你怀了唐氏儿,你也必须生下来,这就是所谓极右GOP的限制政府管制!

在整个美国,公开做late term abortion医生只有4个,之前有5个,09年George Tiller被反abortion的人直接在教堂开枪打死了,极右势力一边叫嚣宪法保障拥枪,一边反对宪法保障的abortion,
大概就是为了用枪来谋杀支持abortion的医生!
即使今天的美国社会,基于反abortion的暴力恐怖袭击曾出不穷,不客气地说,这些人搞得恐怖袭击一点不比穆斯林少!!都是打着所谓神的旗号!

雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 12:43:26 PM
给个法规看看?从未听说过这个。
l
littleball
6 楼
给官方的证据,别拿WIKI来说啊。
picassososo
7 楼
帮你贴个图,看看到底late term的abortion有多少
雷锋叔叔
8 楼
给个法规看看?从未听说过这个。
littleball 发表于 10/20/2016 12:44:44 PM
http://forums.huaren.us/showtopic.aspx?topicid=2077401
雷锋叔叔
9 楼
给官方的证据,别拿WIKI来说啊。
littleball 发表于 10/20/2016 12:45:28 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/03/24/indiana-just-banned-abortion-if-the-fetus-has-down-syndrome/?utm_term=.6748a00632b8
雷锋叔叔
10 楼
http://www.lifenews.com/2016/03/24/indiana-becomes-second-state-to-ban-abortions-based-on-down-syndrome/

Indiana has become the second state in the nation, following North Dakota, to ban abortions on babies who are diagnosed in the womb as having Down syndrome. Gov. Mike Pence signed the bill today to protect unborn babies from being aborted simply because of a disability, race or sex.
雷锋叔叔
11 楼
现在federal judge block这个indiana的法案,可以想象极右势力上台的结果
wenlin
12 楼
现在的技术11周就能用dna 查出胎儿有没有问题,16 周就可以做羊穿
a
aubrietia
13 楼
回复 1楼雷锋叔叔的帖子

现在最有效最安全的诊断已经不是羊穿了。

10-14 weeks, 假阳性只有0.06%
The study, conducted by the American research team, analyzed and compared results from two screen tests — the NT scan versus the cfDNA — given to 15,841 women at various health facilities around the world.

The cfDNA test “had higher sensitivity, a lower false positive rate, and higher positive predictive value than did standard screening,” the researchers wrote in their published study. More importantly, the false positive rate during the study for cfDNA was just 0.06 percent as compared to 5.4 percent for standard screening — one less worry for pregnant mothers.

简单总结一下
2012-2013年全美多中心临床实验
15000孕妇进行了nt scan 和cfDNA测试
结果是cfdna检出所有21三体没有漏网,并且有9个假阳性,即正常胎儿被错误检出。
如果以cfdna作为唯一的流产标准就是在15000个个体中所有的唐氏儿被流产,9个正常胎儿被流产。

传统检测方法ntscan 检出30个21 3体漏掉8个,另外有854个孕妇被错误的怀疑唐氏高危,进行羊穿。羊穿流产率大约为1%-0.3%, 意味着3-9个胎儿在诊断过程中流产。羊穿检出率不是100%,这里不计算了。 总结一下 现有组合筛查方式筛查15000名孕妇大约带来8个21 3体婴儿出生,3-9个正常胎儿流产,吃瓜群众可以自己和cfdna比较一下。

而且要注意的是cfdna发展非常快,2011年前后(没细查)出现的技术13年就有如此表现,由于测序灵敏度的提高和样本量的扩大现在的表现会远超3年前。如果用cfdna+ntscan 误流产几率会进一步降低,完全可以取代羊穿。

欢迎用数据讨论。

雷锋叔叔
14 楼
现在的技术11周就能用dna 查出胎儿有没有问题,16 周就可以做羊穿
wenlin 发表于 10/20/2016 12:53:11 PM
nipt并不准确,cvs的危险性比羊穿高,羊穿在18周后做是最准确的,就算你16周做,做个全面检查出结果也是20周左右了,现在极右势力搞得20周法案不就是要打击这些妇女选择的权利吗
雷锋叔叔
15 楼
回复 1楼雷锋叔叔的帖子

现在最有效最安全的诊断已经不是羊穿了。

The study, conducted by the American research team, analyzed and compared results from two screen tests — the NT scan versus the cfDNA — given to 15,841 women at various health facilities around the world.

The cfDNA test “had higher sensitivity, a lower false positive rate, and higher positive predictive value than did standard screening,” the researchers wrote in their published study. More importantly, the false positive rate during the study for cfDNA was just 0.06 percent as compared to 5.4 percent for standard screening — one less worry for pregnant mothers.

aubrietia 发表于 10/20/2016 12:56:40 PM
先去搞清楚nt nipt cvs 羊穿这些都是什么意思吧
picassososo
16 楼
现在的技术11周就能用dna 查出胎儿有没有问题,16 周就可以做羊穿
wenlin 发表于 10/20/2016 12:53:11 PM

Dna测试不是对所有孕妇免费,比方说一个年轻妈妈不是高危产妇没有钱早期做基因测试,直到20周大b超才发现胎儿有严重缺陷,这个妈妈不该对她的宝宝去留有自己的决定权吗?我记得之前还看过一个报道说孕妇中期感染zika病毒,可能胎儿是否有小脑症也许要后期才能发现,如果这样的话,政府也要一刀切不让妈妈做决定?这样就一定对胎儿最好吗?
lnmichelle
17 楼
To be honest, I don't think they care much about "life".  Against abortion is more about punishing sex.
泡沫泡沫
18 楼
尼玛太过分了,如果因为健康原因想要abortion完全是合理的,堕胎确实是个人选择不应该被政治宗教所绑架!
m
majia
19 楼
我以前觉得华人上很多人支持减税,不给孤儿寡母残疾人福利,拥枪,反穆斯林起码是很有逻辑的利己主义。
但是现在看到女人居然反对roe v wade,才知道有些人真的是没脑的。
雷锋叔叔
20 楼
我以前觉得华人上很多人支持减税,不给孤儿寡母残疾人福利,拥枪,反穆斯林起码是很有逻辑的利己主义。
但是现在看到女人居然反对roe v wade,才知道有些人真的是没脑的。
majia 发表于 10/20/2016 1:08:48 PM
全美有1/3的女性有过abortion的经历,做abortion的医生护士简直就是冒着生命危险在工作,很多女性选择abortion真的是非常艰难的选择,极右势力千方百计为哪这些女性无非就是打着宗教的旗号,这和他们反对的穆斯林恐怖分子有什么区别?
v
vic3128
21 楼
顶楼主
Chasy_Price
22 楼
我早说过堕胎问题 同性恋问题 都是共和党短板
但今年这些不是大事 大事是国防 移民 经济
你如果非要觉得这是天大的事情 就为了这个问题不能选共和党非要选民主党 那我也不能劝你什么 毕竟每个人侧重点不一样
但我还是希望你好好想想希拉里上台后的诸多问题 当穆穆三天两头给你搞个恐袭 警察三天两头被杀掉 黑金贵各种打抢砸 华裔各种被压迫的时候 我希望你那时侯能不后悔现在将堕胎问题看得如此严重 的决定
pinbear
23 楼
法律规定24周吧,不是今天决定做明天就能找到地方/医生给你做。很多医护是反流产的,会有意无意地拖你过了24周,就不能做了。Law and Order 里有一集就是这样,虽然有一定艺术加工。
这种伦理学的问题真的很难分对错。


现在的技术11周就能用dna 查出胎儿有没有问题,16 周就可以做羊穿

wenlin 发表于 10/20/2016 12:53:00 PM
cwubing
24 楼
难得一见的摆事实讲道理的好贴。可惜有很多人,特别是女人听不进去。
hideandseek
25 楼
我早说过堕胎问题 同性恋问题 都是共和党短板
但今年这些不是大事 大事是国防 移民 经济
你如果非要觉得这是天大的事情 就为了这个问题不能选共和党非要选民主党 那我也不能劝你什么 毕竟每个人侧重点不一样
但我还是希望你好好想想希拉里上台后的诸多问题 当穆穆三天两头给你搞个恐袭 警察三天两头被杀掉 黑金贵各种打抢砸 华裔各种被压迫的时候 我希望你那时侯能不后悔现在将堕胎问题看得如此严重 的决定
Chasy_Price 发表于 10/20/2016 1:16:09 PM
非常同意你说的。不过楼主这智商估计不能理解,而且收了钱的人可不是想不干就能不干的。
雷锋叔叔
26 楼
难得一见的摆事实讲道理的好贴。可惜有很多人,特别是女人听不进去。
cwubing 发表于 10/20/2016 1:21:18 PM
很多人连roe vs wade是什么都不知道就反对abortion,无知真可怕
x
xil
27 楼
好帖。
hideandseek
28 楼
难得一见的摆事实讲道理的好贴。可惜有很多人,特别是女人听不进去。
cwubing 发表于 10/20/2016 1:21:18 PM
就因为民主党支持late term abortion,就要支持民主党? 别说女人了,连做人都不配!
雷锋叔叔
29 楼
非常同意你说的。不过楼主这智商估计不能理解,而且收了钱的人可不是想不干就能不干的。

hideandseek 发表于 10/20/2016 1:26:57 PM
呵呵,又开始显示智商下限了,GOP的基本盘一大块就是反abortion的极右,极右就是自己永远是对的,看到不利于自己的说法就whining, rigged
hideandseek
30 楼
呵呵,又开始显示智商下限了,GOP的基本盘一大块就是反abortion的极右,极右就是自己永远是对的,看到不利于自己的说法就whining, rigged

雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 1:29:50 PM
楼上说的话你装瞎呗,反正你们这些人对重要事情一向装瞎。
A
AngelBeibei
31 楼
很多人连roe vs wade是什么都不知道就反对abortion,无知真可怕

雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 1:27:13 PM

你知道roe vs wade是什么?我也不知道,引用一段大家喜闻乐见的USA Today来看看:

“On Jan. 22, 1973, the Supreme Court ruled that the government cannot interfere with a woman’s right to have an abortion. The court sided with Jane Roe, an unmarried Texas woman, who wanted to safely and legally have an abortion in a state where it was prohibited unless the woman’s life was at risk. According to Planned Parenthood, at the time of the decision, nearly all states restricted abortion unless the woman’s life was in danger or in cases of rape or incest.” (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/10/20/roe-v-wade-abortion-clinton-trump-debate-womens-issues/92452822/)

哪怕在1973年,在那些禁止流产的州里,如果母亲的生命受到威胁流产或者是强奸案的受害人,流产也是被允许的。所以这个Roe vs Wade case能够提供的应该只是在母亲的生命没有受到威胁的情况下的流产选择。反对Roe vs Wade,反对的应该也只是在母亲没有生命威胁情况下的流产。支持希拉里late stage abortion的究竟在支持什么?为什么总是拿母亲的生命安全来说话?
译码
32 楼
不知道楼主说的绝大部分医院不做堕胎手术是指什么地方?我在蓝州,邻居就因为胎儿心脏有问题做了手术。白人,基督徒,查出有问题之后直接预约了医生在医院做的手术。具体周数没问过,可能在20周左右吧,保险cover了手术费用
shaoMM
33 楼
奇怪了,大陆对打胎多么的开放啊,怎么出国的这么多有意见的。。。
a
aubrietia
34 楼

Dna测试不是对所有孕妇免费,比方说一个年轻妈妈不是高危产妇没有钱早期做基因测试,直到20周大b超才发现胎儿有严重缺陷,这个妈妈不该对她的宝宝去留有自己的决定权吗?我记得之前还看过一个报道说孕妇中期感染zika病毒,可能胎儿是否有小脑症也许要后期才能发现,如果这样的话,政府也要一刀切不让妈妈做决定?这样就一定对胎儿最好吗?

picassososo 发表于 10/20/2016 1:00:06 PM

所以建议推动dna检测纳入医保才是正道
dna检测平均比标准流程便宜1000美元,而且还会降低。
常规流程成本不会降了。
shaoMM
35 楼
共和党其实来个jonh mccain之流也没什么,大同小异。今年的问题出在trump不靠谱这点上。就他的智商情商,想想都怕
阿梧
36 楼
Re, 的确是这样的,楼主总结得很好。
雷锋叔叔
37 楼
不知道楼主说的绝大部分医院不做堕胎手术是指什么地方?我在蓝州,邻居就因为胎儿心脏有问题做了手术。白人,基督徒,查出有问题之后直接预约了医生在医院做的手术。具体周数没问过,可能在20周左右吧,保险cover了手术费用
译码 发表于 10/20/2016 1:43:40 PM
Of all the medical services carried out at the nation’s hospitals, one procedure is unlikely to end up in many glossy brochures: abortion. About 4 percent of the nation’s pregnancy terminations take place in hospitals, according to the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive rights think tank, and hospitals comprise more than a third of the nation’s abortion providers. Most do this work quietly, compared to the more visible standalone clinics such as Planned Parenthood.
p
pandacao
38 楼
难度不是人身安全最重要?打胎妇女,到底能占总人口的多少?

希拉里上台,黑墨穆至上,各种打砸抢,人肉炸弹,枪击,活命都成问题了。还谈人权???????
雷锋叔叔
39 楼
Why Are Abortions Performed in Clinics?
The answer helps explain why abortion rights have been under siege for decades.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/11/why_are_abortions_performed_in_clinics_not_hospitals.html
雷锋叔叔
40 楼
看来一般少数人的权益关心的人不多,呵呵。。。
馒头的老爸
41 楼
奇怪了,大陆对打胎多么的开放啊,怎么出国的这么多有意见的。。。
shaoMM 发表于 10/20/2016 1:49:25 PM
因为出来了,一个个就装的跟蜜蜂一样了。
e
eriecase
42 楼
我同意你说的 但是希拉里昨天说的不单是20w 她说九个月也可以


很多人连roe vs wade是什么都不知道就反对abortion,无知真可怕

雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 1:27:00 PM
Yadkin
43 楼
她没说。是trump不断,一直在说9个月。

她说你故意举这样极端可怕的例子来否定整个流产的合法合理。她说,其实绝大多数打胎的人根本不是到9个月的。late term 打胎的人一般都是不得已,其实很想留孩子的。late term里面9个月的更是少之又少。

我同意你说的 但是希拉里昨天说的不单是20w 她说九个月也可以

eriecase 发表于 10/20/2016 2:31:06 PM


☆ 发自 iPhone 华人一网 1.11.08
馒头的老爸
44 楼
她没说。是trump不断,一直在说9个月。
她说你故意举这样极端可怕的例子来否定整个流产的合法合理。她说,其实绝大多数打胎的人根本不是到9个月的。late term 打胎的人一般都是不得已,其实很想留孩子的。late term里面9个月的少之又少。
☆ 发自 iPhone 华人一网 1.11.08

Yadkin 发表于 10/20/2016 2:50:35 PM
就是这样,床粉非要spin,也没办法。
ziyi99
45 楼
别搞笑了,要是查出来胎儿基因有问题,有重大心脏病问题。。。20多周的时候是可以放弃的。。。
m
miamimiami
46 楼
Roe vs Wade这个最高法院的判决肯定了abortion权利是宪法保障的妇女权益,各个州根本没有资格作出违宪的法律,如果一边叫嚣law and order,一边说各个州不顾宪法自行管制,那就是个法盲最高法院同时以胎儿是否可以在母体外能否独立存活来界定限制abortion的标准,一般医学上在没有特殊情况下以怀孕24周来判断
美国总体上是非常歧视abortion的,现在基本绝大部分医院不做abortion,都是在abortion clinics,这些诊所基本上天天都有人在抗议,让任何一个寻求abortion帮助的妇女都有负罪感
即使是这些诊所,大部分都只做第一孕期(12周前)的,公开做第二孕期的诊所在全美国估计就20个左右吧

abortion争议的一个焦点是late term abortion,一般认为18到20周以后就是了。late term abortion在整个abortion里面是非常非常少的比例,大概1%都不到,很多选择late term abortion是因为胎儿被诊断
出重大疾病,这些都是期待宝宝的妈妈,却不得不面对这种极其痛苦的选择,现在各种对late term abortion的限制,简直就是对这些妈妈的双重摧残。这里要解释一下,现在医学上对胎儿进行基因检查最有效
最安全的做法是羊穿,一般在18周左右作,等检查结果出来大概都是在20~22周左右了。现在GOP在17个州通过了禁止20周以后abortion,本质就是禁止这些妈妈选择的权利,从道德上绑架妇女
更有过分的,north dakota, indiana 直接立法禁止孕妇因为胎儿的基因问题abortion,就是说你怀了唐氏儿,你也必须生下来,这就是所谓极右GOP的限制政府管制!

在整个美国,公开做late term abortion医生只有4个,之前有5个,09年George Tiller被反abortion的人直接在教堂开枪打死了,极右势力一边叫嚣宪法保障拥枪,一边反对宪法保障的abortion,
大概就是为了用枪来谋杀支持abortion的医生!
即使今天的美国社会,基于反abortion的暴力恐怖袭击曾出不穷,不客气地说,这些人搞得恐怖袭击一点不比穆斯林少!!都是打着所谓神的旗号!

雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 12:43:26 PM
这么好的科普贴子一定要顶,让更多妹妹看到,这样她们在投票的时候才知道她们为自己和后代选的是怎样的将来。
m
majia
47 楼
我前面把transcript里面希拉里否认的话都贴出来了。已被无视。


她没说。是trump不断,一直在说9个月。
她说你故意举这样极端可怕的例子来否定整个流产的合法合理。她说,其实绝大多数打胎的人根本不是到9个月的。late term 打胎的人一般都是不得已,其实很想留孩子的。late term里面9个月的更是少之又少。

Yadkin 发表于 10/20/2016 2:50:00 PM
e
eriecase
48 楼
是的 她说少之又少 但她没有否认九个月不可以 事实上lateterm的讨论都是极端case啊 比如被强奸比如得癌症 我觉得全部发回state绝断最好 每个州自己决定


她没说。是trump不断,一直在说9个月。
她说你故意举这样极端可怕的例子来否定整个流产的合法合理。她说,其实绝大多数打胎的人根本不是到9个月的。late term 打胎的人一般都是不得已,其实很想留孩子的。late term里面9个月的更是少之又少。

Yadkin 发表于 10/20/2016 2:50:00 PM
白菜86
49 楼
支持一下楼主
雷锋叔叔
50 楼
法盲真可怕,如果宪法保障的权益各州可以自行决定,估计又要打南北战争了
s
sunnypotato
51 楼
因为出来了,一个个就装的跟蜜蜂一样了。

馒头的老爸 发表于 10/20/2016 2:29:57 PM
此言差矣。出国的有几个是滥交打胎,性别选择打胎,大月份胎儿引产的?或者是你很赞同像国内重男轻女重灾区打掉女胎,女胎做引产?
雷锋叔叔
52 楼
2013年North Dakota搞出了6个星期就不能abortion的奇葩法案。。这就是各州自行觉得的结果,如果没有联邦法律,红州搞出种族隔离一点都不奇怪了
k
kimy33
53 楼
回复 33楼shaoMM的帖子

你口中的大陆,法律规定5个月以上是不能流产的,除非有相关证明。
nodepanda
54 楼
h还好意思提宪法权利?那第二修正案怎么不说?民主党拼老命禁枪的时候咋不说宪法就是宪法,各州不能乱改了?说的好像民主党是什么好鸟似的。
k
kimy33
55 楼
2013年North Dakota搞出了6个星期就不能abortion的奇葩法案。。这就是各州自行觉得的结果,如果没有联邦法律,红州搞出种族隔离一点都不奇怪了
雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 5:15:06 PM
打胎和种族隔离有什么关系? in fact 黑人女性打胎率是白人女性的5倍。你那么推崇打胎,你会不会是种族主义者呢?
o
oats715
56 楼
别搞笑了,要是查出来胎儿基因有问题,有重大心脏病问题。。。20多周的时候是可以放弃的。。。
ziyi99 发表于 10/20/2016 3:09:34 PM
极端的就不说了,很多州的cutoff是20,羊穿大概要18周才能做,如果遇上排队什么的再拖延一下,20w的时候拿不到完全的报告是有可能发生的。
上面说基因检测的,以现在的技术,医生是不会拿到那个结果就直接给做abortion的,还是得等到做羊穿确定以后才可以。

因为这个原因这么大月份还得堕胎已经很不幸了,如果因为各种原因必须要生下来,真的是太不幸了。
雷锋叔叔
57 楼
打胎和种族隔离有什么关系? in fact 黑人女性打胎率是白人女性的5倍。你那么推崇打胎,你会不会是种族主义者呢?

kimy33 发表于 10/20/2016 5:29:13 PM
你到底有没有逻辑呀,和宪法相关的问题上,各州根本没有权利自行决定
这里没有人推崇打胎,只是要保障这个妇女的宪法权益,现在极右势力打着神的旗号,不断地搞小动作,更有过分的直接针对相关医护人员作出恐怖袭击,这和那些穆斯林恐怖分子有什么区别?
Ghostouch
58 楼
楼主说极右完全反对堕胎不合理,但不能支持无限制堕胎的合理。两种都是极端,中间必定有个可以折中的切合点。

因胎儿缺陷不能后期堕胎的不合理,但也不能排除胎儿孕妇都健康但有人非要后期堕胎的情况。完全可以在立法的时候把前一种情况予以排除。

楼主说20周不合理,问题是40周肯定也不合理。所以在立法的时候是可以讨论多少周合适。

任何法案都不是完美的,都会有法律照顾不到的情况,如果法律照顾不到的情况多了,自然可以提请修改或重新制定法律。

在胎儿生命权和女性对自己身体的处置权之间,肯定需要一个切合点!而不是放开完全让女人来决定胎儿的命运。
Ghostouch
59 楼
奇怪了,大陆对打胎多么的开放啊,怎么出国的这么多有意见的。。。
shaoMM 发表于 10/20/2016 1:49:25 PM
大陆还有计划生育强制堕胎呢,是不是也要搬过来?
雷锋叔叔
60 楼
楼主说极右完全反对堕胎不合理,但不能支持无限制堕胎的合理。两种都是极端,中间必定有个可以折中的切合点。

因胎儿缺陷不得后期堕胎的不合理,但也不能排除胎儿一切正常有人非要后期堕胎的情况。完全可以在立法的时候把前一种情况予以排除。

楼主说20周不合理,问题是40周肯定也不合理。所以在立法的时候是可以讨论多少周合适。

任何法案都不是完美的,都会有法律照顾不到的情况,如果法律照顾不到的情况多了,自然可以提请修改或重新制定法律。

在胎儿生命权而女性对自己身体的处置权之间,肯定需要一个切合点!而不是放开完全让女人来决定胎儿的命运。
Ghostouch 发表于 10/20/2016 5:38:23 PM
roe vs wade已经清楚地说明了,以胎儿是否在体外存活为标准,这个标准大部分人是接受,问题是极右势力现在不断挑衅这个标准
现在17个红州通过的20周abortion ban绝对就是在挑衅roe vs wade,极右势力抬头的表现
s
sheeda
61 楼
谁告诉你羊穿18周以后更准确的?16周完全没问题好不好。而且谁告诉你结果要四周的?我自己做羊穿检测的来告诉你,快的技术比如说fish第二天就知道结果了,慢的核型分析最多十天也出来了。
雷锋叔叔
62 楼
谁告诉你羊穿18周以后更准确的?16周完全没问题好不好。而且谁告诉你结果要四周的?我自己做羊穿检测的来告诉你,快的技术比如说fish第二天就知道结果了,慢的核型分析最多十天也出来了。
sheeda 发表于 10/20/2016 5:41:34 PM
呵呵,核型后面还有micro array,单基因检查,这些要多久?大B超排畸一般也在20周
小伙伴
63 楼
呵呵,核型后面还有micro array,单基因检查,这些要多久?大B超排畸一般也在20周

雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 5:48:17 PM

羊穿可以在16周就做,micro array不是必查项目,而且准确率远远低于99%,micro array加上去一起做,一般在3周出结果,快的2周多点就出来了,大排畸OB给的建议是建议在18周后19周就可以做了
阿梧
64 楼
谁告诉你羊穿18周以后更准确的?16周完全没问题好不好。而且谁告诉你结果要四周的?我自己做羊穿检测的来告诉你,快的技术比如说fish第二天就知道结果了,慢的核型分析最多十天也出来了。
sheeda 发表于 10/20/2016 5:41:34 PM
Fish 结果是有误差的,而且fish 并不是测全部染色体的,只是几个常见染色体的缺失。染色体没问题不代表孩子没问题,microarray 还有其他测试都要比较长的时间,20周后发现孩子有问题的例子多了去了。无知真可怕。
雷锋叔叔
65 楼
现在家小那边的孕妇,那个不是小心谨慎的做各种检查?不就是为了发现问题能够及时abortion吗?凭什么不给别人这个选择权利?
不要因为受影响的人很少很少你就觉得无所谓,这些孕妇本来就是最可怜的妈妈,本来期待宝宝却不得不面对一个极其痛苦的选择,现在还要被极右势力打击
现在妇女生孩子越来越晚,这些事情发生的概率越来越多,而且可能完全发生在这里每一个发帖的人身上,自己设身处地的想想吧
小伙伴
66 楼
极端的就不说了,很多州的cutoff是20,羊穿大概要18周才能做,如果遇上排队什么的再拖延一下,20w的时候拿不到完全的报告是有可能发生的。
上面说基因检测的,以现在的技术,医生是不会拿到那个结果就直接给做abortion的,还是得等到做羊穿确定以后才可以。

因为这个原因这么大月份还得堕胎已经很不幸了,如果因为各种原因必须要生下来,真的是太不幸了。
oats715 发表于 10/20/2016 5:33:38 PM

你如果需要做羊穿,genetic counselor会告诉你,哪些项目需要几周时间,而且也会告诉你本州的cutoff是20,22还是24,而且羊穿16周就可以做了,如果13 18 21有严重问题的,医生是优先照顾的
小伙伴
67 楼
现在家小那边的孕妇,那个不是小心谨慎的做各种检查?不就是为了发现问题能够及时abortion吗?凭什么不给别人这个选择权利?
不要因为受影响的人很少很少你就觉得无所谓,这些孕妇本来就是最可怜的妈妈,本来期待宝宝却不得不面对一个极其痛苦的选择,现在还要被极右势力打击
现在妇女生孩子越来越晚,这些事情发生的概率越来越多,而且完全发生在这里每一个发帖的人身上,自己设身处地的想想吧
雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 5:54:30 PM

隔壁家小也有一堆是这个检查不愿做那个检查不愿做,以为做了这个检查就可以不做那个检查了,前期不抓紧,之后发觉没有时间处理了,这种情况怪谁呢
Ghostouch
68 楼
roe vs wade已经清楚地说明了,以胎儿是否在体外存活为标准,这个标准大部分人是接受,问题是极右势力现在不断挑衅这个标准
现在17个红州通过的20周abortion ban绝对就是在挑衅roe vs wade,极右势力抬头的表现

雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 5:41:13 PM
希拉里可不是这么说的,她支持完全放开,即使Trump问她是不是9个月差一天的时候堕胎也没问题的时候,她也没有否认,而是左顾而言他。
阿梧
69 楼

羊穿可以在16周就做,micro array不是必查项目,而且准确率远远低于99%,micro array加上去一起做,一般在3周出结果,快的2周多点就出来了,大排畸OB给的建议是建议在18周后19周就可以做了

小伙伴 发表于 10/20/2016 5:48:57 PM

如果孩子有有问题的signal,比如nt 很高,那么很多人都会选择查microarray,这种情况下一般保险公司和医生都会建议先查染色体,如果没问题再继续查其他,(如果有问题就没必要查其他的). 因为sample用的是一样的,所以很多情况下test并不是同时进行的,所以时间上是累加的。 还有很多孩子由于单基因的问题导致的疾病要后期才可能发现,而且后期胎儿缺氧或者其他导致的畸形都不是前期可以预见的,堕胎不好,但是很多后期堕胎的妈妈们真的是很可怜的,他们本身面对的是双重折磨。
雷锋叔叔
70 楼
希拉里可不是这么说的,她支持完全放开,即使Trump问她是不是9个月差一天的时候堕胎也没问题的时候,她也没有否认,而是左顾而言他。

Ghostouch 发表于 10/20/2016 5:56:17 PM
如果9个月差一天的胎儿被医学证明离开母体不能存活,那abortion就是可以容许的,这就是roe vs wade精神,不同意可以去最高法院打官司
而且拿这种例子出来说事情真的只能水平很低下,故意讨好极右势力
小伙伴
71 楼

如果孩子有有问题的signal,比如nt 很高,那么很多人都会选择查microarray,这种情况下一般保险公司和医生都会建议先查染色体,如果没问题再继续查其他,(如果有问题就没必要查其他的). 因为sample用的是一样的,所以很多情况下test并不是同时进行的,所以时间上是累加的。 还有很多孩子由于单基因的问题导致的疾病要后期才可能发现,而且后期胎儿缺氧或者其他导致的畸形都不是前期可以预见的,堕胎不好,但是很多后期堕胎的妈妈们真的是很可怜的,他们本身面对的是双重折磨。

阿梧 发表于 10/20/2016 5:57:24 PM

不是啊,我们这里genetic counselor说是一起送的,需要送什么提前直接说了一起送,不需要等一个出结果
Ghostouch
72 楼
如果9个月差一天的胎儿被医学证明离开母体不能存活,那abortion就是可以容许的,这就是roe vs wade精神,不同意可以去最高法院打官司
而且拿这种例子出来说事情真的只能水平很低下,故意讨好极右势力

雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 6:00:13 PM

这不是她的说辞。
阿梧
73 楼

不是啊,我们这里genetic counselor说是一起送的,需要送什么提前直接说了一起送,不需要等一个出结果

小伙伴 发表于 10/20/2016 6:01:21 PM
很多地方不是这样的,而且有些保险明确要求microarray测试必须提交染色体测试结果还有其他原因来决定批准与否。
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oats715
74 楼

你如果需要做羊穿,genetic counselor会告诉你,哪些项目需要几周时间,而且也会告诉你本州的cutoff是20,22还是24,而且羊穿16周就可以做了,如果13 18 21有严重问题的,医生是优先照顾的

小伙伴 发表于 10/20/2016 5:54:31 PM

如果你说16周,那做的应该是cvs而不是羊穿,cvs的流产概率比羊穿大一些。为了减少风险,等几周做羊穿是很可以理解的。

另外,10w以后才可以做nt,开始不知道有问题并没有排得很及时,可能12周什么的才做。然后做了nt发现有risk,为了减少对胎儿的风险做DNA screening,然后发现还是有问题,再排羊穿,等到出结果,超过二十周是很有可能的。到底多少周cutoff可以讨论,20w我觉得不太合理。

以上并不是什么9个月发现得了癌症之类的极端情况,确实是每个生孩子的父母都有可能面对的。
阿梧
75 楼
补上一句,我虽然很讨厌希拉里,她绝对是个满嘴谎言的政客,但是pro-choice 是一个非常非常重要的事情,我在babycenter 上看过太多的可怜的孕妇妈妈了。。她们都不想堕胎,但是很多时候没有办法。
雷锋叔叔
76 楼

这不是她的说辞。

Ghostouch 发表于 10/20/2016 6:02:31 PM
我开这个帖子也不是来赞同希拉里,我就是说现在极右势力抬头打击妇女abortion权利非常危险,对支持abortion医生护士的恐怖袭击和穆斯林恐怖分子本质完全一样
雷锋叔叔
77 楼
Abortion Bans at 20 Weeks: A Dangerous Restriction for Women
http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/media/fact-sheets/abortion-bans-at-20-weeks.pdf
小伙伴
78 楼

如果你说16周,那做的应该是cvs而不是羊穿,cvs的流产概率比羊穿大一些。为了减少风险,等几周做羊穿是很可以理解的。

另外,10w以后才可以做nt,开始不知道有问题并没有排得很及时,可能12周什么的才做。然后做了nt发现有risk,为了减少对胎儿的风险做DNA screening,然后发现还是有问题,再排羊穿,等到出结果,超过二十周是很有可能的。到底多少周cutoff可以讨论,20w我觉得不太合理。

以上并不是什么9个月发现得了癌症之类的极端情况,确实是每个生孩子的父母都有可能面对的。

oats715 发表于 10/20/2016 6:04:17 PM

It can also find chromosomal birth defects, such as Down syndrome. CVS cannot find neural tube defects, and it cannot be used to see if the baby's lungs are mature. Chorionic villus sampling can be done earlier in pregnancy (at 10 to 12 weeks) than amniocentesis (usually done at 15 to 20 weeks).
s
sheeda
79 楼
呵呵,核型后面还有micro array,单基因检查,这些要多久?大B超排畸一般也在20周

雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 5:48:17 PM
microarray我也做,我们实验室一周肯定出结果了。单基因我以前做过,一般也是顶多一周,产前检测永远是所有实验室的top priority.
s
sheeda
80 楼
Fish 结果是有误差的,而且fish 并不是测全部染色体的,只是几个常见染色体的缺失。染色体没问题不代表孩子没问题,microarray 还有其他测试都要比较长的时间,20周后发现孩子有问题的例子多了去了。无知真可怕。

阿梧 发表于 10/20/2016 5:51:53 PM
当然都要分具体情况的,但是最常见的是trisomy 21, 18, 13,我说的是常见情况,罕见的说几天都说不完。说我无知真是笑死人,作为一个遗传学的博士加上有执照的遗传检测人员,我怎么都比你懂,我的专业就是细胞和分子遗传学.
Ghostouch
81 楼
我开这个帖子也不是来赞同希拉里,我就是说现在极右势力抬头打击妇女abortion权利非常危险,对支持abortion医生护士的恐怖袭击和穆斯林恐怖分子本质完全一样

雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 6:05:52 PM
个人觉得无论美国还是世界,对待堕胎的态度都在逐步宽容起来,极右分子的做法也越来越找不到认同。
x
xu9000380
82 楼
我开这个帖子也不是来赞同希拉里,我就是说现在极右势力抬头打击妇女abortion权利非常危险,对支持abortion医生护士的恐怖袭击和穆斯林恐怖分子本质完全一样

雷锋叔叔 发表于 10/20/2016 6:05:52 PM

Wish you live with the 恐怖分子 and have the right to abort anytime!!!!!!
阿梧
83 楼
microarray我也做,我们实验室一周肯定出结果了。单基因我以前做过,一般也是顶多一周,产前检测永远是所有实验室的top priority.
sheeda 发表于 10/20/2016 7:17:44 PM
如果你做过就应该明白实验室结果是一周会有结果,可是结果如果是positive的话很多实验室会反复重复确定,单基因差不多两周才会fax 给医生,医生可能再耽误一到两天很正常 然后孕妇拿到结果。我说的不是特殊情况,我说的就是很正常的情况,基因测试本身并不慢,但是这个流程下来很多耽误。比如cvs取样,很多孕妇查到nt异常后,约cvs取样幸运的可以约到当天,住得偏远的约大医院做取样,耽误3-4天非常正常,还有送样品,很多基因测试公司在东西部两岸,送样品也花时间,这中间很多步骤一步错都可能导致孕妇没法20周以内知道结果。说你无知不是盖的。
m
majia
84 楼
民主这种事情很神奇。
你用选票逼人家生孩子,人家就会用选票逼你帮她养孩子。
mikiya
85 楼
这些决定太personal了,不像川普说的pro-choice就是要把9个月的胎儿rip out,有没有搞错,Pro-choice只是说不要让政府来决定这么私人的事情。Pro-life自己不愿意堕胎就不堕胎,又没有人说非要让他们堕胎。
minijing
86 楼

Dna测试不是对所有孕妇免费,比方说一个年轻妈妈不是高危产妇没有钱早期做基因测试,直到20周大b超才发现胎儿有严重缺陷,这个妈妈不该对她的宝宝去留有自己的决定权吗?我记得之前还看过一个报道说孕妇中期感染zika病毒,可能胎儿是否有小脑症也许要后期才能发现,如果这样的话,政府也要一刀切不让妈妈做决定?这样就一定对胎儿最好吗?

picassososo 发表于 10/20/2016 1:00:06 PM
nipt保险不cover的话自己掏钱也就一两百
s
sheeda
87 楼
回那个阿梧的id

请你给我个需要重复的例子,大部分检测在正常情况下都是不需要重复的,比如microarray,Sanger sequencing等等,当然不排除少数比较复杂的情况。在产前检查的setting下面,医院,实验室都很清楚timeline,都会尽一切努力尽快给出结果,哪怕是周末加班都是要出结果的,在结果到了医生或者counselor那里之后,如果不正常他们也会尽快通知病人做后续的准备。如果是正常情况16周做的羊穿,20周之内应该知道结果。就你说的cvs二十周拿不到结果可能性更小了,cvs本身取样比羊穿更早。again,不排除极少数复杂情况。还有这样上来就说人无知的真是又rude又mean。请问您是什么background做什么工作的?好让我见识一下。
ratzinger
88 楼
华人吸粉一定要看清楚了,亚细法出台的表格上面可没有问你是吸粉还是呼粉,只问你是不是chinese,知道为什么吗?

发信人: TELFAIRWIN (telfairwin), 信区: USANews
标  题: 华裔希拉里/民主党助选团的未来发展方向一片大好
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Oct 19 18:13:59 2016, 美东)

希拉里当选总统,开放非移和穆斯林,四年后,人口结构往有利于民主党的方向改变,
民主党真正是躺赢的了,完全没有必要再费精力竞选,华裔希拉里/民主党助选团也就
没有使用价值,
兔死狗烹的历史经验教训一定要吸取

如果华裔希拉里/民主党助选团想以后还有存在必要和价值,这次一定要川普赢得大选

要让川普赢, 投川普的票是必须的,而且还要多给川普拉票,最好是用希拉里的经费
给川普拉票才是上上选. 反正都是希拉里不仁,华裔希拉里/民主党助选团当然也就不义
picassososo
89 楼
nipt保险不cover的话自己掏钱也就一两百

minijing 发表于 10/20/2016 9:00:52 PM
我记得好像不一定吧,记得之前看到过有人保险不 cover便宜,有的时候八九百
x
xiaohuli8485
90 楼
我记得好像不一定吧,记得之前看到过有人保险不 cover便宜,有的时候八九百

picassososo 发表于 10/20/2016 9:51:25 PM
昨天才在一个孕妈群里看到她医生给她报的nipt价格是3000左右。我就想知道nipt如果保险不包到底多少钱?