j&j, novatax 的疫苗路线是长期证明过安全的吗?对m,p不放心的可以用这两个吗?

m
mm6799
楼主 (文学城)

听说jj很难约,不知道是否因为其安全性

f
fuz
俺是反对打JJ的,效价和保护不如那两种,而且载体本身就是“病毒”。搞不好,前门驱狼,后门进虎。还有,

腺病毒载体引起血凝问题,在过去二十年间一直没解决。

以往都是个体、或小规模接种,对受者密切监视,及时治疗,真正案发的不多。

现在大规模接种,根本没有相应的监管体系,后果不堪设想。

不要以为目前只有AZ疫苗被声讨,其它腺病毒疫苗也有案例发生,只不过被大数据“消除”了。

 

俺不是危言耸听,请自已放狗去查:腺病毒载体 血栓

 

如果对mRNA 疫苗的安全性质疑,那么机理更复杂的腺病毒载体疫苗岂不是毛病更多?

不要被jj防重症的话所蒙蔽,别的不行,才拿这个说事儿

对mRNA疫苗而言,优点太多了,防重症根本不值一提,连轻症都没有几个,扯啥重症、病死啊。

 

 

m
mm6799
听说jj很快约满,你觉得novatax怎样?谢谢
f
fuz
在美国的三期正在进行,原计划五月有足够数据做评估,再有一二个月通过FDA。目前美国疫情减缓,那个疫苗也许遥遥无期。
f
fxfz00
我也觉得这是这一类腺病毒疫苗共同的问题。问问novavax所使用的刺激免疫的佐剂会不会有什么副作用?
f
fuz
用matrix-M,一种已经开发了几年的新佐剂,本来想用于流感疫苗

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0041451

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/256200641_Matrix-M_adjuvant_Enhancing_immune_responses_by_%27setting_the_stage%27_for_the_antigen

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5899102/

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29594879/

 

副作用,来自一、二期临试

https://www.biospace.com/article/novavax-s-covid-19-vaccine-shows-promise-in-phase-i/

The trial was conducted in healthy adults 18 to 59 years of age.

………、

The most common side effects were tenderness and pain after the first dose. Systemic side effects were less common, but were headache, fatigue and myalgia (achiness). There were generally more side effects reported after the second dose, although all were less than or equal to Grade 1. They lasted less than two days.

 

年过花甲的,別等了,赶紧打别的苗吧

 

 

f
fxfz00
谢谢fuz. 很有用的信息。没有等疫苗,只是想也许以后会打加强针疫苗。novavax看着还不错,就是没有大规模使用有些副作用不清
v
violinpiano
J&J有blood clots的問題? 沒搜到啊
f
fuz
这个是官方的数据,显示jj苗的血凝问题是客观存在的

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/24/covid-vaccine-these-are-the-most-common-side-effects-from-jjs-.html

While the rate of unexpected side effects was similar between the vaccine and placebo groups, there was a slight imbalance of some reactions in the vaccine group to those who received a placebo. The vaccine group reported 15 cases of “embolic and thrombotic events,” or blood clots, among 14 recipients, compared with 10 in the placebo group.

 

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/24/fda-johnson-johnson-single-dose-shot-covid-471327

Volunteers reported mild reactions such as injection site pain, headaches and fatigue, but there also were a number of blood clots in the vaccine group including one in a 25-year-old man with no prior medical history who needed surgery.

FDA said data is insufficient at this time to determine whether the vaccine caused or contributed to those events — especially because many of the people who experienced clotting had other risk factors. The agency said it “will recommend surveillance for further evaluation of thromboembolic events with deployment of the vaccine into larger populations.”

Johnson & Johnson said it did not consider the clotting events to be linked to the vaccine, since the rate of cases in the trial was similar to the frequency at which the cases occur in the general population.

 

加州阳光123
JJ 不难约,我们这里很多地方都有,只是免疫率低,不想打
v
violinpiano
但差別太小了啊 15 vs 10

but the numbers were so small (15 vs. 10 for blood clots, 6 vs. 0 for tinnitus), that FDA concluded "data at this time are insufficient to determine a causal relationship between these events and the vaccine."

f
fxfz00
J&J疫苗去年因为一起血栓年轻人死亡暂停了三期临床.牛津疫苗临床时还没有呢。只是目前其他腺疫苗还没有大规模开打。

https://twitter.com/rnaianalyst/status/1378086477171675140?s=21

加州阳光123
P的副作用还有血小板减少,佛州医生之死就是这样的
f
fuz
对老年组的有效保护率为42.3%,不符合FDA和WHO的标准

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/24/fda-johnson-johnson-single-dose-shot-covid-471327


The vaccine showed 42.3 percent overall efficacy in people over 60 with other health risks — such as obesity, heart problems and high blood pressure — which is lower than the FDA’s 50 percent bar for authorization.

 

 

真搞不懂,有些人为啥坚持要打jj。

f
fuz
别小看这个,在数学上,可以称为:高50%。这只是在临试中的观察。在大规模接种过程中,会有更多的案例。
加州阳光123
很多人是觉得只需要一针就行,我看到有些老美家长希望孩子打JJ, 觉得省麻烦

但我现在还不确定打P 或M 到底有何长期副作用?对我们40+和孩子们有什么长期影响?

如果现在奔六了,也就算了,现在这个年龄上不上下不下的,还想多活几年 :)

f
fuz
这么想吧,大家都打了,天塌下来一起走。再说了,这种人命关天的大事,一定要选个好的,不能自已糊弄自个儿啊
加州阳光123
同意