Discussion:So much negative news

妖妖灵
楼主 (文学城)

Recently just read the news on Boeing 737Max posted by 花董 in his blog.

Two days ago I just said I do not want to take Boeing flight in my future travel. 

The news on China Eastern Airlines Boeing 737 crash shocked me speechless.

Does this affect your future travel plan?

 

I just go out to have some sunshine and feel better now.

 

i
ibelieu
I'm sure Boeing wants to know the cause of this

tragedy as much as we do.

妖妖灵
It reminds me of MH370,disappearing with only debris left.
i
ibelieu
Hopefully the black box can be recovered, and

recovered soon.  It should go a long way toward explaining what happened.

妖妖灵
Both crashes happened during midflight,

Who can guarantee no bugs on the software

i
ibelieu
Other things may much more likely be found to have

been the culprit than software, as this model numbers more than 4500, has been in service since 1998 and this was the first time something like this happened.   

移花接木
I am especially heavy hearted, 你看看这个

It just woke up the pain very deep inside me.   My cousin's husband and his colleague were both killed in the China Southern 3942 crash. His colleague's family just lost another son in a traffic accident   a month before 3942 crash. It was an older model Boeing 737.

I was very close to my cousin's family. The time their daughter just started to learn speaking. 

这是此次空难后文学城网友跟帖,我截屏留念。我也飞过附近航线,一架看着旧旧的Boeing 737, 想想有些后怕。

你看一下新旧Boeing 737的发动机吊舱对比, 旧款的发动机细完全吊在机翼下方,新款的发动机短直径大,所谓大涵道比发动机,技术先进,节能,因为直径太大不能直接吊在机翼下方,Beoing737 没有重新设计机体,就把发动机位置前移,整个伸出机翼之外,新型的737都是这种样子,包括最新的Max, 与800,700 结果是重心发声了偏移,所以Boeing设计了一套增生装置。所谓 Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System. MCAS 去补偿重心的偏差,埃塞俄比亚与印尼狮航的坠机事故都是这套增生装置失效。波音负全责。

看这个Max的发动机下方,明显不是圆形,扁了,还是因为要增加地面距离,否者大点颤动几乎要触地。

CCTV footage from a nearby mine, shared online and verified by Jimu News and the Wall Street Journal, purports to capture the plane’s horrifyingly steep final descent, plunging at just 35 degrees off vertical.

但是MU5735,事故也很蹊跷,飞机以与垂直面夹角35度砸向地面。它瞬间掉高的位置正是从平飞巡航改到要进场开始降低高度的地点,2分钟掉高7000米,后来有个爬升过程,似乎是机组在试图挽救。然后就是再次头朝下坠毁。如果飞机还有空速,即使两台发动机完全停车,飞机也会小角度滑翔,斜飞,不应这么直直地掉下去。坠毁前应该是在高空stall了

i
ibelieu
Not sure this is accurate. It seems only the Max has MCAS,

but not 700, 800 and 900, which are actually older models.  Please see the following:

 

What's different about the 737 Max series compared with earlier 737s?

The 737 Max can fly farther and carry more people than the previous generation of 737s, like the 737-800 and 737-900. It also has improved aerodynamics and a redesigned cabin interior and flies on bigger, more powerful and more efficient CFM LEAP engines. CFM is a joint venture between General Electric and France's Safran.

A 737 HISTORY Boeing 737: Much more than just the Max

Those engines, though, required Boeing to make critical design changes. Because they're bigger, and because the 737 sits so low to the ground (a deliberate design choice to let it serve small airports with limited ground equipment), Boeing moved the engines slightly forward and raised them higher under the wing. (If you place an engine too close to the ground, it can suck in debris while the plane is taxiing.) That change allowed Boeing to accommodate the engines without completely redesigning the 737 fuselage -- a fuselage that hasn't changed much in 50 years.

But the new position of the engines changed how the aircraft handled in the air, creating the potential for the nose to pitch up during flight. A pitched nose is a problem in flight -- raise it too high and an aircraft can stall. To keep the nose in trim, Boeing designed software called the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System, or MCAS. When a sensor on the fuselage detects that the nose is too high, MCAS automatically pushes the nose down. (For background on MCAS, read these excellent in-depth stories from The Air Current and The Seattle Times.) 

 

C
CLary
I heard it’s Boeing 737-600, or they are the same.

Yeah, better avoid it.

移花接木
一个尸体都发现不了,冲击能量太大会被气化吗?
移花接木
airbus also had fatal accidents. only fly when have to.
移花接木
前两年有个加拿大庞巴迪的支线飞机恶劣天气空难,自动驾驶仪判断失误把下坠当成爬升,在那天气驾驶员本应人工操纵
妖妖灵
Pat,pat. I’m sorry to hear this…

希望都从伤痛里走出来。。。

 

谢谢花董这么透彻的分析,让我一下看懂了,应该把它单发主帖让更多人看到。

 

发动机那么大设计的变动,别的不做相应的调整,

在飞行动力学上肯定会受到影响的啊。

每次大事都是无数小事积累起来的。

接二连三的出问题,不是巧合,而是偶然中的必然了

能不坐飞机就不坐飞机吧,真是把命交给不认识的人了


 

 

妖妖灵
It‘s 737-800. I guess only mild difference
妖妖灵
In recent years,seems more accidents happened in Boeing.
妖妖灵
我曾认识个同行,她LD是飞行员,她就坐着她LD的飞机,空中是自动驾驶。飞机的自动驾驶比汽车的自动驾驶更有历史啊。
妖妖灵
巡航时自动驾驶,突然俯冲是不是软件对当时气流的变化误判呢
移花接木
这是广西的两次空难
妖妖灵
查了查1992空难,说飞机残骸90%都埋地下了,这次冲击力更大,也会如此吗:

https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/中国南方航空3943号班机空难

 

M
Marauders
This is similar to UA filght 93 crash on 911

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93#Crash

you can read the "Aftermath" section following the link and see how and where human remains and other aircraft fragment were found. Flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder were both found deep in ground.

UA 93 was a Boeing 757, much bigger than 737-800, therefore may be buried deeper. But the crash site of MU's 737 is comparably difficult to work with. 

i
ibelieu
Yes, very similar from what we know.
C
CLary
You can say that.
C
CLary
I remember once I planned to apply for the airhostess

position, my mom tried best and stopped me from doing that.

移花接木
I wanted to apply pilot training. My parents grounded me.
唐古
多坐火车少坐飞机
a
ahniu
张冠李戴

(发自我的文学城离线浏览器)

C
CLary
Really? That is called parents. But my classmate made it. Sh

She finally became an air hostess.

妖妖灵
So it‘s very possible to be buried. 希望 more remains r found
妖妖灵
I know a RN who used to be a flight attendant. 空姐是不是飞几年就不飞了?
妖妖灵
嗯。感觉开车更自由一些。
妖妖灵
为什么?
C
CLary
应该是吃青春饭吧在国内,不过加航空姐年纪都不小。
妖妖灵
上次失事是737Max。这次是737-800。这个我知道。都是一个公司的产品,会不会有什么联系呢?看看这个:

https://bbs.wenxuecity.com/mysj/268277.html

j
johniewalker
现在政府、搜救人员说“没找到尸体”,是完全正确对的做法。否则

高速坠机、大爆炸、燃烧之后,大多数遇难者的亲属们心里也明白“不会有整尸了”。但现在这么多网民、自媒体都在蹭热度、炒作该坠机事件,如果搜索人员现在就宣布“我们只找到了大量烧焦的断肢、身段以及。。。。。。”,无数缺德的网民、自媒体还不“拼命活灵活现地描述”、把这炒上了天?对难属实在太残酷了。所以还是先说“没找到尸体”为好,同时悄悄找难属们获取DNA、用来给遇难者做鉴别。