Contractor 说要放 lien

m
mingyu
楼主 (文学城)

修烟囱,Contractor先是口头估价$1500, 后来写了个书面的bid如图(地址和Contractor 的信息我截掉了),说$2880是基于两个工人3天的labor, 加上材料费。他说$2880是最高花费,如果工作不花那么多时间,花费应该不到 $2880。

工程大概进行了2/3的样子,Contractor要求付钱,我迫于无奈,付了$2000.

工程结束后,我要求Contractor提供invoice itemizing labor and materials,  Contractor说他不会提供。我text他我的记录显示工人工作的时间远不到两个工人3天的labor,希望他“handle billing professionally”.

他回复“This price is not negotiable after the work is agreed on and then completed. If you choose not to pay the agreed upon price, I will be forced to put a journeyman lien on your home.“

请教各位专家:

1)看起来Contractor不准备承认他口头说的话,他如果要放lien的话是否要提供书面的证据?

2)在书面上Contractor只有附图中的bid,  我并没有签字同意,这个并不能justify I agreed to pay the price as stated in the bid, 对吗?

谢谢!

柠檬椰子汁
You are bound

Your action of allowing work to proceed means you agreed to the contract.   Exactly what was the contract, we only have this bill.  So the court cannot rule otherwise, because any ruling has to be supported by evidence.

As for the oral agreement, your testimony is evidence, but if the contractor denies, his denial is also evidence, and it neutralized your testimoney, therefore the oral agreement cannot be proved. 

So the lesson is, get everything in writing.  The contractor is doing this trick every day, take it as a lesson. 

m
mingyu
谢谢!工人说没有rebuild

工人说上部的木板并没有换,是否可以证明contractor did not do the work as stated in the bid? 

柠檬椰子汁
我看不清写的是什么,如果有字据当然可以去争辩
m
mingyu
It says

"Labor + Materials to tear out Haul off - Rebuild Chimney". 

 

m
mingyu
It says

"Labor + Materials to tear out Haul off - Rebuild Chimney". 

 

柠檬椰子汁
journeyman's lien

我不知道这个工作的具体,我只能告诉你journeyman   lien的大概情况。

在房子上放lien是一个讨债行为。这个是要有债在先,lien才能成立。经过法院判决成立的judgment debt,可以去县里court去产生judgment lien,挂到你的房子下面。

这一切当然很复杂。法律上给工匠提供了一个简便的lien,叫做mechanics lien(你们那里叫journeyman‘s lien, laborer's lien), 就是被欠钱的工匠,不用经过法院判决债务成立,直接可以去法院产生一种lien。这个lien和judgment lien不一样在于,mechanics lien一般只有几个月的有效期,工匠必须在有效期之内去法院告这个债务,这个叫perfect the lien。如果工匠不在有效期之内告,这个lien作废,你作为户主可以去法院申请lien release.  

所以,在你房子上放lien是他的威胁,你去看你们州的法律看看具体操作过程,到时候他要么来告你 to perfect the lien,要么过期了你去把lien取消就好了。

如果你这期间要卖房子你就被人家拿住了,这就是mechanics lien的意义,防止户主修好了一走了事。

m
mingyu
谢谢你,柠檬!

我们州放lien 需要itemized statement about labor and materials.

Contractor 提供了工人工作的时间表,大大超出我记录的时间。准备和contractor 沟通,争取不到lien的那一步。

欲借嵯峨
这些人真是给我们做contractor的丢人!你也是太大意

现在这种情况你没啥太好的办法,他有的是招对付你,关键是你没有在一开始拿到详细的quotation,而quotation是我们和客户最重要的合同

m
mikecwu
你可以倒打一耙,威胁告他

你可以威胁说工做得不好,要他把钱全部退给你。他就怕了。

这点金额是Small Claims court的事,我是一个Licenced Contractor,做的工都有合同,完全有法律保障。但如果客户耍赖,去法庭,不管我多么有理,客户多么无理,反正法官都会判我输。我做过几个工程,做完了,客户开始动脑筋,告我上法庭,拍几张照片,说这一点不好看,那一点不好看,要我把钱全部退还给他,他重新找人做。我有客户签收的字据,上面清清楚楚写的客户对我们的工程完全满意。但法官看都不看,就说我要全部退款。

所以,Contractor最怕的就是上法庭。你一威胁,他就会服软。但如果他是白人,也许你没有那么好运。法官一般是白人,他们会向着自己种族。我输给的客户都是白人,法官也统统是白人。

m
mingyu
谢谢大家!沟通没有成功,contractor 说下周一找律师 file lien

我回复他说:As I have conveyed to you several times, I had no intention not to pay the bill. My request is really simple: bill the invoice based on the actual labor on the project. If you file the lien, the county clerk’s office would require the itemized statement about labor and materials.

他回复:That's not true. It was a bid. The bid stands and the work is done.

这大概就是柠檬说的 ”bound"吧.  教训啊。

我给county clerk office 打电话,他们说contrator 有一年的时间来perfect the lien. 轻微大家,如果上法庭的话,我的worst scenario 会是什么?如果严重的话,我就付钱了事,就当买教训好了。

 

柠檬椰子汁
你可以和他讨价还价一些,少付一点就好了,他请律师也要钱。Worst case就是房子上有个lien,卖不了房子。

 

 

c
chinomango
是黑人更没戏,法官尤其是女的喜欢照顾他们
x
xiaofengjiayuan
这个解释很棒,回答了心中一直的一个疑问。。。请问如果施工方在房子放了journeyman lien, 我会接到通知吗。。。户

这个解释很棒,回答了心中一直的一个疑问。。。请问如果施工方在房子放了journeyman   lien, 我会接到通知吗。。。作为户主如何知道有这个lien.  户主可以去法院申请lien release过程复杂吗?

w
willowmili
My Inputs. No offense.

Actually whatever you presented here would be construed as a contract by the judge. This "contract" is a perfect example of what not to do for house repair, rebuild, remodel because it leaves everything wide open, not for you, but for the contractor. It did not define the dimensions, shape, etc. of the chimney. It did not require what brand of materials for the rebuild, and how much. Worse, it did not define the quality of the work or the liability for the contractor if anything happens to the chimney due to lack of quality in the future. it did not define when the work should be completed.

Your only chance to win over the contractor is to get the worker to put something in writing (affidavit: a signed written testimony) that the contractor did not rebuild the chimney. If so, you can negotiate with the contractor's lawyer to reduce the costs and a leverage against the contractor to take this matter further.